Meeting transcript
Combined Finance Dept Committee Special Meeting
July 9, 2020 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Public participation. Joanne, would you like to say anything? No,
thanks. Just going to listen. Thank you, Jeff. All right, you got it.
New business review and discuss following goals of the committee. Goals of the committee are try to decide if a combined joint office is the right way to go or if we're not gonna go in that direction. That's the goals, Am I missing anything? Everybody can shake their head except Adrian. I see a blank door. Good job. Adrian agrees. All right. So last meeting we were sitting there. We got your information, Shannon, on your employment agreement. Thank you. I guess what that does for us is just tells us that if we did decide to go to a joint agreement, we could based upon how you wrote the contract. I mean, and to me
What are you talking about? What do mean we could Because you have an out on the contract, right? Right. I specifically put that in there to make sure that we were able to do that. It wasn't a year long contract even though it's an at will employment contract? They're all the same. Yes. Okay.
So we were all supposed to look at our job description and all of the rest of the information that Eric presented to us. How would you guys all like to proceed with it? What are your problems related to that? What would you like to do, see? Do you not want to do it? Shannon, where are at?
I'm still considering it, Jeff. I looked over all the information. I also have additional information from Laura with regard to all the benefits that we pay on her behalf just as far as looking. I got that information this afternoon. I wasn't able to forward it by email to you all just for consideration of the potential cost savings or whatnot. I guess my question in looking at things is I'm curious how much, how many hours, how much time the current town treasurer works just to look at if we're combining roles or whatnot. We've talked about the person being responsible primarily for the school and then also working on the town side, but I don't know how much is involved on the town side. So that's just something I need to be educated about.
Sure. Currently, the treasurer is working twenty four hours a week. However, probably in the interim since we're in the next week or two going to lose our assistant treasurer, she'll probably be back up to a thirty four hour week covering both those positions for now until a new second person is hired. But that's somewhat dependent on what the decision here as the combined group does. I mean, we were structuring that based on what I thought was direction you all wanted which was a combined finance department essentially.
Well and I think to be fair in this conversation that position can both of those positions,
without because, you know, at this point in time, if we're to move forward,
I think we're we'd be pretty comfortable with thirty four hours a week covering both of those roles. Again, keeping in mind that there was definitely a competency issue in that secondary position. And you know, if we're being honest about it, Barbara had to learn her way into the position she's in. She wasn't familiar with, Phoenix. She still is not she's okay on it but she's not proficient. So having a having something in place software wise that's a little easier to use or that they have a higher level of training whatever that software ends up being is gonna help those positions greatly. So, you know, I think the key would be to fill in, you know, to to fill in the the gaps with that secondary position, you know, if we had that person at the town hall, you know Shame. Three and a half days, whatever it is, And then we definitely could give you that person on Fridays, the payroll person on Fridays,
for anything else that you know, to either work alongside the admin you know, the financial administrator.
How about we make this simple? Shannon, the person that's working at the board of ed right now is a four day a week position. Correct? Okay. So if we extend it to the fifth day and we take that one day, I am telling you if you have the right software, that's enough time. Because you're going to have a person that's going to be a bookkeeper at the town that you could sit there and use as the bookkeeper because the transactional, I'm only gonna give you my take on what I know and where I've been. If you have the right software, the transactional opportunities at the town are not going to even take them the the thirty four hours that Adrian is talking about to do. So we could still give up ten to twelve hours. Eric, you can, I know Eric will have a different take? Just Shannon, as you have a different take and just as
Laura will have a different take. To me, if that person if we have a full time person at this the Board of Education and we take one day from them to do high level work for us.
Yeah. But I I the board doesn't again, I think that the the the savings comes from taking some of those higher level functions off of that administrative
position and shifting it on to the on to the the bookkeeper position. And that's fine. And we're still sitting there saying we have a bookkeeper that will have time to also work at the school. Mean, Adrian, I think that if with the right software, and please, a lot of this comes down to software. With the right software, that person at the school, at town, will have time to be able to go over and assist at the school. And then we would take that extra day from the board of, from the from the person that's the high end person that's taking most of its time at the board of education and taking a day to sit there and do treasures. Eric, is that totally off out of line?
It's not out of line I mean what I would have said was if you're going to come down to two people then probably whoever's the bookkeeper ends up handling the bookkeeping for both establishments whoever does the high level finance director budgeting stuff, does it for both you know organizations and then you kind of split the duties between the two of them based on how much they're there and you know who needs you know which organization needs the most effort.
Yeah, that's fine. At that point in time if we listen if we work together this is going to work. If if we fight over it or we fight over the nuts and bolts of it, it's not gonna.
So I mean, look, the reality is that, you know, we can keep kicking this around all day and try to figure out what this position is and where what's where. You basically just need to tell us what it is that you need to feel comfortable sharing the people and we'll agree to that and move forward. Us this isn't complicated. This is really just about continuity and savings are a huge benefit but for us it's more about continuity between the school and the town. Other towns have done this successfully so I think we're overthinking this and we can plan this all out now and then we get to budget next year and the superintendent comes back and says, hey,
I need more bookkeeping time and less whatever. And Eric says, need less bookkeeping time, but maybe I need an extra four hours for budgeting or so whatever it is, you know. And those are things that we'll tweak as we go move forward, you know. I I think that's part of it is when we hire the whoever that we have these conversations to say, listen, it's we're dealing with new software, whether it's QuickBooks or or Edmunds or whatever it is. We're dealing with new software. We're dealing with different people in new positions, so we're gonna need to tweak these a little bit, but we're going to work with whoever comes in to make it work. Does that seem reasonable? I think you're muted still.
Okay. Chris is muted. Hi, Chris. My my quick question just so I I've got a good understanding. So the the assistant finance officer was a forty hour per week position. Right? That's what's in the job description. Then the finance director, I thought that was like a three day position. Are we now talking? That
was our perception is that it would be three days.
And so you have what? Two days to school and and one day at the town or Yes. And we might I thought
we were talking about a five day a week position. We just talked about four days at the school and one day for the town. So the bookkeeper. It's not about the money. For the bookkeeper, Shannon.
Listen. Listen. If it makes you guys comfortable enough to sit there and do this the way that I just presented it, it's not what Adrian wants. It's not what we think we will end up getting to. Listen, this is going to be a work in process. But if it moves you guys to sit there and present it to your board and be in agreement that that position is full time and the bookkeeper's full time, well then fine, let's just get it started Because if we can do it, we can work at the reductions. Adrian, I know it's costing us more money and I don't want to and I believe the department can cost us, well, should cost us less money. But
if we don't do it, we're gonna hurt the town because we're gonna end up, you're gonna end up, you're gonna end up wasting money because you're gonna end up coming back to the Board of Finance and say you need a different software. And
you just I mean, it's really on you guys, Shannon, Chris, what you feel we're trying to figure out where you're at. Jeff, I guess what Jeff is saying is, you know, if to get this done, we need to give you an extra day, he'll do that. And I don't know that I agree with that, but I'm willing to listen to it. We're trying to figure out what the resistance is here, I guess.
Right, mean, so for me, I mean, looking through the job descriptions and thanks Eric for providing all that information. I mean, it looks like everything's pretty much covered. Looking at the job description for the finance director, I'm a little concerned certainly that that's a lot of stuff to be done in three days a week. Yeah, and that's why I'd like to see some of those responsibilities
kicked to the bookkeeper. You shouldn't have someone making that much money wasting their time doing you know low level administrative stuff. Know and to that point, they get cc'd in that email that Hubert sent us? I didn't send that email.
No I don't We got an email from a administrative assistant that happened to be a resident in town. On the meeting. Oh okay.
Think she's Doesn't matter. We understand that. This is this you know everybody will have their own opinions. I mean, Shannon Shannon and the board of ed have to decide if it's acceptable to them to have a combined finance department. We will work out as and and play nice to sit there and get the position done. If you don't wanna do it, let's not waste any more time. I don't have enough time to waste. So to me, I think there's opportunities to sit there and move work between people in that department. Two people in department, we can get it all done. The biggest thing that the biggest thing for me in my position is the software. If the software is difficult to to work with and people can hide behind the software, they're gonna hide behind the software and that's how it is. If the software is workable, then what will happen is we will find out that what Adrian is talking about, which I believe in, that the jobs will consolidate themselves and we'll find out that we have too much time in the positions. And that's okay. If the beginning, Shannon, you need full time, I'll tell Adrian and I will sit there and I say, Listen, let's just do it. Let's take it into account for year one,
build up the department, and then year two, we evaluate where we're at. That's it. That's as much as I can tell you. I can tell you those, the job description and how it breaks down and how it splits out. Yeah, we need to do what Adrian is saying, but it's also gonna be a work in progress.
Yeah, think it doesn't make sense to try to set it in stone right now, but I think you should have, we should be able to do some tweaking to those personal.
It's Joanne Heber and I'm sorry to break code but I really have taken a big interest in this and I'm the one that did the email. Can I tell Shannon just one thing? I know I'm out of code and I would say it later but I'm afraid I'm not gonna get my chance.
Well this meeting hopefully Joanne won't be very long and I'm gonna ask Shannon. Shannon, do you wanna wait at the end and follow protocol? No. Go ahead Joanne.
I'm so sorry. I'll never ever do this again, but I'm afraid my family's gonna need me and it's important. So that email that the email that I did send today really Shannon, I do this as a job. I've I've been in this field in the board of education and Chris for over like twenty years. So I sent to Jeff, Adrian and Eric today an email outlining just a couple things that I thought would be helpful at Andover Elementary. It just seemed in that director's position, a lot of the things that Laura does, and I've listened to her and listened to all you, are done by us administrative assistants. I listened to that three hour meeting you had. I listened on YouTube where FMLA was brought up, reference checks, HR. Those are all things I do. So maybe Laura won't need to do those if they give them to Diane, the superintendent's secretary. I just wanna say before you decide on three days or five days, and whatever you decide is fine, but there does seem to be a lot of things that Sally, Dorian and other one Laura do that we in the town and I work for a big town that we do in the administrative assistant role that should be taken off their plate. So hopefully they'd have more time to work, you know, with the finances and the bigger level
things. If it was a Laura, she can do the reporting. I don't think she should be the worker bee like me that's trying to find the best deal, entering the purchase orders, you know. And as far as Sally, like they were saying, you know, they do all the HR, they're checking the references, they're doing all the FMLA paperwork. Again, I work in an 800 student school, 75 teachers, at least 50 non certified. That's all. I mean, know you're making big decisions and maybe you're gonna wanna go full time, full time. I should have included all of you in that email, but I just I left the Board of Ed meeting last night, that's when I heard you were having this meeting. Right. Well, Thank Joanne, thank And,
just from my standpoint, being a small community and small town and small administration, we have to do things slightly differently. So in the current situation with Laura, she had to do those. I mean, could probably push some of that to the secretaries, but that's a management thing. That's not even on us to decide. So, I mean, right now, if we actually did a combined department, Adrian is correct. We could source those, the management of that position could source those items to that individual to free up the higher end person. But listen, this comes down to do you wanna do it or don't you? And it's gonna come down to the board of, I mean, I'm just telling you, the two board of select members wanna do this, not for any reason other than to sit there and make this a better operating functional office and to provide a better product to the community. If you at the Board of Education, if the two of you don't wanna do it,
and you don't wanna present it back to your board to sit there and vote on it, we can't tell you nothing we can do.
Well, it's not that we don't wanna do it, Jeff. We're just considering I mean, I think we we have had a meeting and and wanted to flesh out what it would look like. I think the two major concerns that I've had are number one, that we don't yet know what the financial software is. So to go back to your statement that if the software works, then the job should should follow. We don't even know what the software is yet. That decision hasn't been made and I know that there have been a number of meetings and I know Eric recently was in a meeting with Laura to look at and consider what the software should be. But I think the major issue that I've had just in considering doing all of this right now is simply that we have a new superintendent coming in. We have new financial software
and looking at, you know, the timing of all of this. That's been my major issue. Okay. In addition to what we talked about last time. So as far as the parameters for the jobs and the job descriptions, it sounds absolute and based on what Eric discussed last time, it sounds absolutely feasible that we can do this. My concern has been just the for lack of a better term and the expertise that I know that goes into doing school finance management, but at a smaller school and given what's required to do town finances and whatnot, I don't see any reason why the positions couldn't be combined. I think when we're looking at combining the positions for at least this first year, especially given all that's going on with schools reopening and a new superintendent and all that, that I would wanna see the position, you know, based on what we discussed about last time, if Laura's doing her position four days a week and the treasurer now has twenty four to thirty hours, whatever that's gonna look like, I don't think that we're gonna get away with having a combined finance director only work three days a week. So certainly my comfort level would be definitely trying to do a combined position
at looking at initially five days a week and four for the school and one for the town. And however that plays out, I appreciate the need to be flexible.
Well, so what I would say though is I'd like to sort of meet you halfway on that and say, can we do five days on the bookkeeper and four days on the higher level position, you know? And take some of those things that Laura is currently doing and shift them to the bookkeeper's position.
And that gets back to what I don't know, Adrian, and that's where I need Eric's input, which is my initial question from a couple minutes ago, what are the treasurer's responsibilities and how is that going to parlay into the finance director versus the bookkeeper so that we know that all of those jobs are gonna get done? Sure.
So I mean in a perfect world from the town end, person that's working as the bookkeeper deals with the lower level stuff, which is accounts payable, accounts receivable, deals with payroll and payroll issues, deals with setting up and administrating PrimePay and all of that, know, and getting the MRF correct and getting all the, you know, all the day to day stuff that needs to be done. And then from the treasurer's perspective, the treasurer really needs to do, or the finance director really needs to do a couple things. One, keep an eye on the books, number one. Number two, manage and put together what needs to be assembled for the annual audit. And, you know, and that's a fair bit of time dealing with that. And then just, you know, when it comes to budget season, that person is an integral part of the budget discussion and budget planning. And then throughout the year monitoring and making sure we're staying on budget.
And everything's reasonable.
Well, but I'll give an example, Shannon, where we can help in that regard with the bookkeeper position. Like for instance, you could take the supply closet responsibilities. You could still have the upper person be reviewing that stuff to make sure that it's being done to your liking. But you could shift that off to the bookkeeper for that day that she's The town's not open on Friday. So you could have that person working at the school on Friday and doing that on that Friday, right? And so she'd be able to get input from the superintendent, from Vryde, for whatever, be right there and have a list of things that she needs to source that maybe we do purchasing every Friday. And there would be input, Bridey and whoever could work around that to be available to do that on Fridays with them if they want direction. But even just with whether it's contracts and start talking about bidding. So for instance, Eric has a list of, you know, puts together what he wants to do for a bid. But it is Amanda's responsibility, not Eric's, to make sure it gets on the correct websites, it gets out there for correct bidding, and then tallies all the bids together and puts them together as a packet to then be presented to the board. Eric doesn't do that. Eric makes sure that it's the bid is what we need it to be and he makes sure that it gets to Amanda and it gets typed up correctly, he proves it and then Amanda does a lot of the legwork. Then when they open them, they open them together and then Amanda takes it, tallies it all out, puts it on a spreadsheet and gives it back to him. And you could be doing the same thing with the bookkeeper position as basically
a high level secretary for that finance director. You know what I mean? So it pulls some of that off where currently Laura's taking all that responsibility on herself. You can shift that to someone who is basically, for all intents and purposes, the number two, or in this case the secretary and the bookkeeper for this position. Really, mean, it's gonna be that person's direction and how well they lead that bookkeeper to put together the stuff that they need put together and pushing that off on them. That's really what those high level secretarybookkeeperwhatever you wanna call it is. It's that support staff. That's why they're called support staff. So.
My concern is going to be the number one thing for each position as far as I know is the preparation, as far as Laura's primary responsibility is the preparation of the budget. Yep. And when we get down to budget season, all that is involved in preparing, revising, all that kind of stuff budget. And I know that starts for Laura looking at that in November, December. When does that start for the town and just not wanting to cut short? I also know we're in contract negotiations with both our certified teachers and our non certified employees throughout this next year. We're looking at that and Laura has been integrally involved in contract negotiations as part of what a higher level finance director would certainly be involved in. So again, I'm just very reticent if we're gonna do a combination of jobs, knowing that Laura's job, depending on how we take away responsibilities are gonna be given to a bookkeeper is four days a week to try to then add on what a finance director or treasurer would be for the town
and not give that person five days a week of work.
According to mean, when we talked to our auditor, our auditor said that our town, if we had a good bookkeeper, our town really didn't need more than one day a week on a treasurer level. Budgeting for us is a little different than it is for you guys. You guys have a lot more playing into it from outside sources and ECS money and grants and there's a lot more moving parts to your budget and also it's a lot bigger. A lot of our costs don't move much, you know. Move because somebody cut them. I know Eric's giving me the look. They moved because someone cut them not because they changed a lot. A lot of our costs are either built into contracts and so they're adjusted accordingly
or there are priority changes that the town has put forward. And I know Eric's sort of feeling the heat of that but a lot of that has to do with us catching But once our town sort of gets running, we're fine. My question there, Adrian, was more about the timing of everything. So when
does the town start to look at the budget? When is the budget put together? All that kind of stuff just to see that we've got a couple months in there that may be a heavier workload, for example. Shannon, to me,
to me, problem is that we should have our budgets established and organized and ready to go and keep manipulating all the time to sit there and make sense of this because what we're doing is, it appears to me we're waiting, we should have a standard format and the standard format gets filled in. I mean, you know, you guys even know. I mean, okay, you're double our size, but still probably 75% of your costs are solid employee costs. Right? I mean, so reality is the budget shouldn't be that difficult. We make it more difficult. So to me, I sit there and go, I think we should be looking at all year. We should be setting it up all year. We should have a budget formatted ready to go today. It's not the final one but it's ready to go for next year. It should be done. It should be in Excel. It should be presented. It should be presentable and you know, it just needs to be manipulated.
Yeah, just like you do, we look at financial reports, Jeff, at every one of our board of education meetings every And we have encumbered and unencumbered, Laura added that our financial reports, which is really, really helpful. So we know exactly how much throughout the entire year of our budget has been used, how much has been encumbered, and then take a look at that every month is our responsibility.
So we are looking at it, manipulating it every month and addressing it. But you were asking about the budget. I mean, and listen to me, if you guys need the time, if the Board of Education is where the high end person needs to put all its time, put its time there. I mean, don't think anyone's gonna sit there and say no. I mean, this whole thing is what's in the best interest of the time. If it's not in the best interest of the time, then let's not do it. It's not waste any more. And listen, Shannon, even if let's say we hire for four days a week and
we leave it open so that we have some room and when we go hiring we say we may need an extra half day or we may need a little more time around the budget when those things are being prepared and we'd leave it open for that. I mean you can hire an employee in that regard and say there may be some time where you need to put in a little bit extra to get to there. Because at four days a week you're already paying most of the benefits and all that anyway. So it's not gonna change the benefits equation. It's really just a payroll situation. Right? So I mean, so we can hire with that regard and leave it a little open ended, you know, for room. And then listen, if the Board of Education then decides so we really need more time out of this person then we roll into next year's budget and we put more time in. It's not I mean it's not that big of an equation I don't think you know.
What if we went ahead since there's an immediate need certainly with the individual leaving. What if we went ahead and did the assistant finance officer find out how what duties we could transfer off to them over from the board of ed. Get some good experience with that. Get us through the budget season and a new superintendent. Because I know that's one of Shannon's big concerns is there's a lot of moving parts with new superintendent, with budget and with COVID. There's a lot. And then as we figure out what we can transfer over to the assistant finance director, then maybe later in the year we start searching for the finance director.
I think our only concern with that was sort of twofold. One, with the new software coming in, we would like to spend the training dollars on the person that's gonna be there long term rather than training Laura, training Barbara, and then having them leave if it ends up being the case. That might you know, we're wasting training dollars on people that are not gonna stay. So that would be a little bit. And I and I think then you're also you're you're going into a the overlap is sort of what we were looking for. So you're still hanging on to Laura as long as you feel you still need her, know, and we're hiring this other position in. And it could be something where, you know, we hire that person in and they're shadowing with Laura or whatever you guys want to do, that's your decision, your superintendent's decision and your decision as to how you wanna transition that, you know. And then from the town side, it'll give them time to acclimate because from the discussion we had at the last meeting,
it sounds like initially we may be looking at someone that, well I shouldn't say initially, we'd be looking at someone that's a little more school orientated as far as finance would make you guys more comfortable which means they may need at the beginning a little more time on the town side to get acclimated to town finances. Do you know what I mean? So we spend the beginning acclimating town side. Maybe we get an extra day at the beginning for that. So they're there two days so they have more time to acclimate and they're shadowing or working with Laura and working with the superintendent and how they want that office or you guys want that office to function. And then we as as as it goes forward, whether it's, you know, if it's Laura or if it's someone else that that would transitioning accordingly, you know. What is everybody's concept of timing?
I mean I I would like to see us advertising this, you know, September, October to bring somebody in for the end of October. So we have that person in place going into budget season before the school.
I have a major concern about that timing just based on new superintendent. I mean, I think it's when are you, well, let's ask. So if you're trying to save training dollars, when are you anticipating getting new financial software?
I think we're going I think we wanna have the software up and running, you know mid fiscal year. So December we should be transitioned to new software. So you should be able to do your budgeting on the new software for next year.
Oh, I'll go this way. Even from a software perspective, if you sat there like, does anyone use the current software to do budgeting? No. Does the Board of Education use the current software to do budgeting? You know, Shannon, you use it to tell information. Do you use it do you print out your budget through the system? No.
I don't know. Hey, Eric, do we? No. We don't I know the answer. I'm just asking. So transition to me is not a negative thing. Like we should be able to transition to a new software and hopefully whatever software is picked by either organization, it's easier than we're currently dealing with. And the overlap will allow
the new person to set up the software to get all that kind of teed into place and that way the transition will be a little smoother, you know. Alright. What it's gonna take to be comfortable, Shannon?
I have to go back to a board of ed and, I mean, this is Chris and me representing and talking with you and Adrian as far as representatives to, you know, convince the board of ed that this is the way we should go. So it's not I mean, you guys keep addressing all of your answers and issues to me. It's not me. It's me as board of ed representing what I see as issues and getting answers to those to address it properly to properly represent
to the Board of Ed while we're addressing. So Chris, is it? Hold on. What are your reservations at this point, if you have any?
Chris? I mean, is I think we also need to have, you know, in addition to word Ed, we also have to have this conversation with our new superintendent, right? Because I'm sure this didn't come up anywhere in the interviews or anything else. So I certainly wouldn't want to bring in a new superintendent and be making decisions for them on a major portion of their staff, right? My other concern I think was ours. I think we've addressed that. My concern was making sure that we have everything covered. Going through it, it looks like we've addressed that and then the two job descriptions. So I mean, I think outside of the having the conversation with the new superintendent and finalizing the hours and stuff, I mean, I'm pretty comfortable. I think the last piece is as Shannon's point, that's gonna be timing. When is the new superintendent expected to start?
We are meeting with our recommended candidate tomorrow and entering into contract negotiations if all goes well tomorrow next week. And the candidate could start immediately according to my emails with the candidate yesterday, last night after our board of ed meeting.
So if they're starting immediately, they could be a part of the conversation. I shouldn't say conversation, they could be a part of the interview process for the new person, for the finance person, right?
What Chris is saying is what we need to address because one of the things that we represented to our new superintendent candidates is that he and she, far because we had male and female candidates, would be coming into a very supportive staff. One of whom is Laura, who's got significant experience with school finance management.
So as far as So you guys didn't even mention that we're looking at new software or transitioning finance positions.
No, I mentioned that we definitely were looking at new software because we knew we had to address that and that we that under consideration was the development of a finance department. But no, we did not go because we're we weren't negotiating with an applicant until 10:30 last night where we, the board of ed, decided to move forward with the recommended applicant from the search committee. So no, we have not delved into, hey, by the way, we're gonna be looking at a new finance department for the town as far as a combination
job and so. I mean, personally, if I was going into a new job, I don't think I would be upset at all if I'm being told that you're gonna have some overlap. You're having the person that's been there will be there for the X number of time. And you're gonna have a say in that person's possible replacement.
What I'm talking about, Adrianne is, nevermind. I'm talking about is is that it's been represented to the super you know, that previously, as far as anybody knows, we've had a finance manager at the school for four days a week who is the finance person for the school. So as far as coming in as a new superintendent, just dealing with, oh, by the way, now it's not just gonna be a finance person for the school, it's gonna be a finance director for the town who has responsibilities for both. And that's not an issue. I'm not I'm not trying to say it's it's a huge issue. I'm just saying it it is yet another moving piece in many moving pieces, looking at what we're dealing with in bringing in a new superintendent, new financial software, and potentially a new person to work for both the school and the town. All I'm saying.
But they wouldn't have to be looking at a new person for over two months from now. Actually, if you're hiring them fairly quickly, would have over three months from now, we would then be saying, okay, you've had a chance to settle in. Now we're bringing somebody else in to further support you as we move forward with a better software system because we don't have a choice, we have to leave Phoenix one way or the other. So we're gonna try to go to a better software system. And by the way, we're bringing an extra staff to do that because we're gonna have overlap for three to four months. How I don't understand why that would even be a concern. You've said you wanna hang on to Laura at the very least through December, right? So if we brought That's what we had taught which we talked about and that's your current contract with Barbara, correct? Sure. So so you're gonna have three months if you brought someone in in the end of October, you're looking at, November, December and you could even take January if you felt that that's what you think is appropriate, you could take three months and have overlap where they'd have more staff than they currently have, not less.
This is all dealing with what the issue that Jeff raised a couple minutes ago, which is timing with this whole thing. So I think we've got a number of issues. I think number one is, are we gonna have a combined finance department? That's number one. We've got to get that past the board of education. Number two, defining what the job responsibilities are. Number three, defining the number of days of week each position is gonna work for. How many hours a week and how that's gonna be divided between the town and the board of education. Yep. What what I and then as far as the the transition and whatnot, I don't see we need three months of transition between two positions, Adrian. That's not what I was saying. What I was saying is if you're looking at hiring a new person to start at the end of October, given a new superintendent, new financial software and a budget that typically starts to get prepared November December, that would be a little daunting I think or of concern to me. Now this is all saying, you know, I'm hopeful that Laurel will wanna take on the town's financial responsibilities. That would be ideal to have her continue on in her current position and just add in, take away the mundane responsibilities or the more bookkeeping responsibilities and add in the financial responsibilities for the town. That would be terrific if she would do it.
I mean, I'll be candid with you. I would not support that at all only because I've watched the support mechanism that she's provided during your budgeting, and it's been very frustrating to see it.
She is gonna have as equal opportunity to apply for that position as anyone else. Anyone can apply for it. I'm just saying, you know, Shannon's saying she's for it. I'm just saying That's fine. Everybody's different. It's really, it's not an issue. The issue is this is not about one person. Let me tell you, this is about what's best for the town. Absolutely. Guys cannot sit there and see that that a finance department will be better for our town of Andover, then then all I'm asking is Shannon, all I'm asking is Chris, bring it to the Board of Education, decide whether you want to do it, and please come back to us. I will tell you flat out, I would want it in place by January 1. I would want a new software in place by January 1, and I think we got to move forward. The budget, I'm telling you, if the budget, if the budget, and you say it's being worked on in November, there is not, there is not that many parts of our budgets that really changed that substantially. Just not. We have certain certain I mean, I know Eric, I get it. We have to make decisions and we either have money or not, but there's there's certain locked in pieces of what we spend. It's not like we're a town that goes out and says we have 120, you know, 500,000 of extra revenue, let's figure out what we're spending it on. It's not how it works in Antelope.
So Well, let's just find out right now. If given that we still need some, you know, we still need some tweaking to to what the hours are for the two positions. But assuming that the Board of Education leads with what they want exactly to make this work, is there any reservations if you have the hours that you want for this position, Shannon and Chris? I mean, obviously Jeff and I are for it. Eric's gonna have his own opinion, but really it's up to you guys at this point. I mean if you go back to the Board of Education, you're not for it, it's a dead issue. So where are you guys at right now given that you guys will have more say as far as the hours? Is there anything else we need to address or is there still any reservations with that to you guys?
We obviously have a commitment to the town too, Jeff. Mean, the whole reason we're spending all this time and entertaining this consideration, we understand that it's something. So I'll go back to you, Adrian. Do you have the full commitment of the entire board of selectmen to move forward with the finance department? Yeah, absolutely.
Totally for it. More importantly, the board of finances for it because it's really, although we have an opinion, mean the board of finance is definitely for it. So, yeah, I think we're actually all kind of looking forward to it because we feel it'll be a much better continuity situation. Know. And
I would agree I mean I think given the fact given the conversation we've had today I certainly feel more comfortable and I agree with you Adrian. I think having the superintendent being able to help pick their staff and work together with the town and finding the right people for the two roles, I would agree. I don't know anybody who would turn down that opportunity. Right. So I think we have to have that. We have to be honest with the person we're bringing in and say, hey, here's what we're doing. And at least give them an opportunity for some feedback before I think the board of education, votes on it.
Yeah. And hey, listen, not for nothing. I didn't vote for Eric for his job either and he's got it. Thanks, Adrian. I just I hate to keep reminding you of that. But I really you weren't my first choice. We can make bad decisions. Right? Yeah. Didn't didn't didn't Jeff Maguire vote for
I did. I sit there and I take I take I take full credit for Eric and I take full responsibility for our previous town administrator. That's fine. I'll take it. Win and lose. Win and lose. But and Shannon, I'm not saying that it's not like you guys don't see it in the You're working at the best interest of the Board of Education. You wanna make sure everything for the Board of Education gets done properly. I get it. I think that we come down to it, it will all get done. It will be much more efficient. It will be much better. And I just hope we can get it done.
Yeah, I think we all get, I think I hope we all get the the whole reason we're all talking about this is that we would like this to be a little smoother on both sides of the aisle. So, you know, that we're hoping the software is a big piece of that candidly. So That is my my biggest component. Yeah. So
So that was the next part of the agenda, Jeff, or I don't know if that was an error on Amanda's part, but it was supposed to be a QuickBooks presentation. Was that not supposed to be part of the agenda? I don't think unless Eric has it. No, I think all that was is Amanda didn't know, Jeff just said set up a meeting. So she just copied back the last two things we had on from the last agenda and put it out for the special meeting. So I think you can safely I ignore really wanna see Eric do a QuickBooks presentation.
You would be in trouble. Eric needs QuickBooks training to do a QuickBooks presentation.
It won't take him very long to become proficient. This is true.
So so Chris, you're generally for it. Shannon, where are you at at this I
said before Chris spoke that I was for it also, Adrian, that I would go back and recommend it to the Board of Ed. Okay,
what would you like to go back and recommend to them though? So your concern at this point then is for both of you, Chris and Shannon, your concern is really hours at this point having enough hours. Is that the primary issue?
Okay. Hours time, like I said, hours timing and a conversation with the superintendent are my three that I think we need to address. If we were to do
if we were to sort of negotiate a little bit here, if we were willing to support more hours, you know, without any reservation at all, would you guys be wanting to move this forward sooner so that we're getting we're each getting something that we're more comfortable with. We would like to see this happen and in place by January. And if if giving you guys more hours gets that done, I'm fine with that. But I would simply like it to be that it's a one year contract and that the person knows that as the as the positions develop and settle in that may change but at a worst case scenario they'd be looking at no less than four days. Would that be fair?
You're saying that you Yeah. That we're committing to four days for a finance director? Well, we commit to four days
and if and we would want the purse if you feel like you need more time now, whether it's four and a half days or whatever, I gladly support that if you would be willing to support doing it sooner so that we're moving into this more quickly. What are you proposing Adrian? I'm proposing you had said before you didn't know if it could be done in four that Laura is currently doing four days and that even shuffling some of those things off her plate that were
maybe more I get what you're saying. What if you're looking for a gimme, what are you looking for as far as trying your transition? Transition to whoever the person is done by January.
So Adrian, just so I can clarify. Please. I know you don't want to sit there and give them a fifth day. Are you sitting there saying we could have that person for five days? To start? If
that's what it takes, yes. Okay. I don't think we need five but I'm going to do five.
Agree with you. So what he's saying to Shannon is right now the position would be a full time bookkeeper, right? Yep. And a full time finance director to get this started with a one year contract. So when that person goes through the first year, their time might be reduced because the job position might not require it all.
Right, so that we're clear. So when we're going and interviewing, we tell the candidates that we would be looking for, you know, whatever if the Board of Education feels they need four days, four and a half days, five days, whatever it is, we tell them that, but that we feel that once the new software is settled in and once the new, once the bookkeeping, once the office has settled down a little, we truly believe this may be a four day week position And we would want to tell them that upfront that there's a possibility that after the first year is done, and we're settled in, this may be a four day week position so that we tell them upfront. Do you know what I mean? So that they're not walking into a question mark or oh, I really need five days or whatever, know. So that's all. So that once we're settled in and we're rolling, if you feel that you still need the five days, God bless. If you don't, then we can take the day back, you know. Not gonna be up to me, Adrian. It's gonna be up to, primarily up to Eric and the new superintendent figure I'm out how much euphemously saying you guys as in Chris and Shannon and Steve Fuss and the Board of Education and the superintendent and even that person doing the job. They make a case to you guys that they need that time, then they need that time.
You know, so I'm amicable to whatever it is. I just want to see us moving forward rather than kicking this around.
We are moving forward. We've had the meetings and now it's up to Chris and me to go back to the Board of Education and represent what the discussions have led to. Okay.
Your next meeting is next month? Our next meeting is tomorrow. Oh, you have meeting. Oh, wow. I thought you had your meeting. Oh, you have a special meeting. I have a special meeting. This is not on the agenda for the special meeting.
So your next meeting where you would discuss this, unless you decided you were gonna have a special meeting We're gonna have a special meeting next week to do contract negotiations with the superintendent applicant so we can add that to the agenda. So what we would ask, given our current situation,
if you could add it to the agenda and even if we don't, if you guys don't have time to iron out your higher level position at least allow us that yes you are in agreement to it so that we can hire the bookkeeper to move that forward. That's what we would really look for at this point. Is that possible? Shannon, Chris?
Yeah. Mean I certainly think so. Mean that's kind of what I was alluding to earlier so knowing that you guys definitely have a more immediate need. We apologize,
we didn't know that was happening. It's you you get a letter, you get a letter so. Been there, done that. And we can survive
a few months without the bookkeeper. Not as well but we can Not
a great idea. Let's not do that again. That's been done before. Let's not do that again. So You can get through no problem. Yeah, yeah you'll be at the cape Me and Eric will be shuffling papers.
Okay so I'm going to Wellfleet and I'm hanging out with Shannon right Shannon isn't that where you're at? Oh damn. All right, do we have to do anything else?
So I have one question for all of you because we approached the union about ten days ago and said, hey, because we thought this was going to be a much longer process because we weren't looking at an empty position, we were looking at a filled position and said, we are going back to the union and renegotiating a change of scope of duties for the assistant finance person. Is there anything that any of you have issue with in terms of the job description as currently written for that position? I'd like a little more go
ahead, Chad, I'm sorry. I just need to take more time and look at it, Eric, to respond to that. I looked at it in preparation for this meeting, but not as far as doing a job description for for hiring. I didn't realize that she had resigned on Monday. Understood. Understood. Okay.
Yeah. I I would say the same thing. And I think given our conversation tonight, I wanna we wanna leave a little more flexibility in that job description for both duties and hours. So like we want to make sure that it's clear in there that they may be working at more than one location. So they may be working at the school a couple days and they may be at the town a couple days so that there's no issues. You know, I think we need to have those actually written out in the job description, just for clarification sake.
So you want in the job description that they may work?
Will make the necessary modifications over the weekend and I will have them to you before Monday morning and then you can decide if they're appropriate or not. I will gladly send it out to everyone. Fair enough. Okay.
So is there anything else any of you want out of me between now and whatever the next meeting you're scheduled? Shannon, when's your special meeting next week?
We're in the process of scheduling it. But it won't be Monday. It may be Monday. Oh, shit. Sorry. Matter because all we're doing, all we would do is discuss the finance department, you know, Chris and I going back to the board of ed and discussing that. Yeah.
I guess what I'm looking for though is if if we could get the job description through Eric for Monday to get to you guys before your special meeting, whatever day that is next week, if it ends up being Monday, but simply so that you have a job so we can at least move forward with that, you guys approving that job description as well so that we could then move forward with it as quickly as possible.
So first of all, combined board all had that job description.
I have not changed anything since you've gotten so I understand, but we're talking about modifying it so that we a, have flexibility of having that person work physically at the school so they can be more involved in those processes for the superintendent and for Mr. Brighty and for the board of ed. If the staff so chooses to shift some of those responsibilities into that position. And also writing that so that it is very clear that those may be responsibilities that they will fall onto them. Do you know what I mean? So Okay. I just wanna make sure it's clear. That way if they if they okay it, we can then go to the union with it and try to get that cleared and then go right to hiring. I know you think we can go a couple of months. I don't think that's a good idea, Eric. I just don't. And it could take us some time to find that person but Well, but I mean, I'm just saying realistically,
it's gonna take us a couple months between negotiating with the union and then going out and actually locating somebody.
I think the union, if we go to them with a very clear and concise description and knowing we have a vacancy currently, I I think they'll be fairly quick about it. I don't think they're gonna drag this out, Eric. There's no reason to. We're we're offering them a a a much clearer position, you know, and I just don't I don't think it's gonna be an issue. I I can't see why it would be an issue, what they're gonna kick down the road, you know.
You have more faith in the union than I do. I do, I do.
I think unions can be a force of good and a pain in the butt but I think the middle ground is common sense so we'll be fine
you know. Okay, we'll take bets on who wins that one. If I would sit there and say let's email each other after your meeting. I mean, because if you have a meeting and your meeting says, let's move forward, let's have another meeting. If your meeting says, we don't wanna move forward, let's not have another meeting. We don't need to waste each other's time.
Well, mean, generally it sounds like Chris and Shannon are on board. So let's be optimistic and hope that it does. Then, like I said, I'd also, in the interest of transparency and try to loop everybody in, think that's why I'd like to make sure that the board of education has a chance to look at that job description before we go to the union with it. Do know what I mean? I think that would be appropriate. And especially Eric, if you are right and I am wrong on this, I'd like to have as much time as possible that leeway instead of this not getting done for another three weeks, four weeks, then going to the union with a final job description then would just be not a good idea, I don't think so. You know, the sooner we can get it through the board of ed, at least that one position off to the union, the better we are. Especially if you're right.
Okay. Alright. So Shannon, you'll communicate with us regarding your meeting and then if we need to schedule another one and then we can figure out how quickly we can schedule another one so that would transmit, that would let Eric go to the union and sit there and understand what we gotta do. All right? Shannon,
We'll you have preliminary feedback from the union apparently next week. Okay. Okay.
Shannon, can you just text or reach out email Eric and myself to confirm when your special meeting ends up being next week? So that he knows how quickly he has to get that job description back to you to make it to a meeting for you? Well, at this point we are looking at Monday, but I'll
let you know as soon as I know. Okay, I mean, we'll plan Monday, but just in case I know we also have a meeting on Monday. Yeah, Board of Selectmen on Monday. Yeah, so I don't know how Barry, Amanda and Eric are gonna be with prep and whatever else. So, you know, I'm just trying to buy him more time if I could. That's all. Yep. Okay. We'll work with whatever. So Well, we're trying to do our contract negotiations.
So that's more important at this point, unfortunately, to get that wrapped up, you know? Absolutely. Yep.
Do you think you'll be able to make time during that meeting or? Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Great. Anything else that you guys feel we need to address at this meeting?
Open it up for public participation. Joanne is still hanging around and then we can adjourn. Okay.
Yeah, I'll make it quick. I did get to hear the whole thing. Thank goodness. I just want to say that I support Adrian, your first thought. I'm a little disappointed that you went with the five days. I think four days is perfect for that position. Or you know, I don't think you should be, you know, the townspeople were expecting three and five. I understand and I loved your point about the four days if it's not doable and they come back to you then you build it up. I don't feel like a five day and five day is really necessary for 182 students. They've got three or four administrators there. I know we're trying to get it passed, but again, I like everything that took place. I think it's a great idea. I think the town and the board of ed will work great together, but it's a lot harder to go backwards. No one in a school system, trust me, is gonna give you back that day. They're gonna fight and I love them. They're good, I really wish you guys would stick with the four days. Shannon and Chris, experience working with 800 students, all the stuff we do,
I'm like pulling my hair out here. I don't have a camera. I wish I did. Just the things, I think they're gonna be fine. They're gonna get it done. I know we give them a lot of things. It's gonna work.
Mean to be fair There's always been a five day. Public comment, Adrianne, we don't respond. Well, we can respond. It's not a rule. Go ahead and choose to. I choose to. I just wanna tell and this actually benefits you Shannon. I think we need to be fair to the Board of Education and say that they have actually in the past given time back when they didn't need it. So I think we have to be optimistic that they'll look at the position. If if they feel they can, they'll give back because they would rather I'm sure they'd rather have those dollars somewhere else in their budget if they can move them. So I I I'm okay with it. Mean, you know, listen, it's not ideal, but we have to you know, this is a give and take. So you know? Don't forget they're gonna have Laura too. Thank And you for my give and take because I am really invested in this decision. Sure.
But whatever, I see what you're saying but I think it's just gonna be a big dollar sign for the taxpayers of Andover. Now we're gonna have our town manager who's great, Eric. Now we're gonna have a full time financial director for a small town. So I just wanted to keep it reasonable but I get you. That's my comment. I hope it moves forward because I know you're all invested and let's get work too. Thanks.
Thank you. There's no one else online. Does anybody else want to make any more comments before we're done? Well, it comes to adjourn. Oh, go ahead, Eric. Go ahead. No. Eric gave a thumbs up. He did that.
Said he was I looked like he was gonna talk before he wanted to move to adjourn. No. Okay. Move to adjourn.
Alright. Second and third and fourth. Everybody's good? Yep. We'll see you guys. Bye. Cheers. Have weekend. A You too.