Meeting transcript
Board of Finance - Special Meeting Budget Workshop
June 3, 2021 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Meeting to order. Meeting to order to this is meeting of the board of finance to discuss proposed budget to go to the meeting on Tuesday. So a couple housekeeping items for everyone. For public speak, we're going to try and keep it abbreviated. Try to keep your comments at two minutes or less. We're trying to get a lot done here tonight. Also, please limit your comments to things that are constructive and that are new to the topic. We've heard a lot of feedback from a lot of people and you always have another chance to speak again at the town meeting on Tuesday. So I would like, would like to ask that everyone is very short, brief, concise and respectful. And Amanda if we can go around and do public speak. I pledge allegiance
to pledge of allegiance. Pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Now we can move to public speak.
Okay public speak and there are a lot of people on here which is really great. So I just wanted to remind everyone ahead of time that if you have any written comments that you would like to submit for your public speak, email them to me at admin assistant andover CT org and I will put that in the chat. Alright, so let's get started and just go one by one. First up, it looks like we have Jerry Cremay and then Dan Foran.
Hi, the only thing I would like to share is that I received a text message from Valerie Bruno this morning or this afternoon. And she said she was just told we were at thirty eight for the fall kindergarten with nine no pre K, three special ed students with special needs and it means that their numbers are increasing overall. So she sent me that message she's not with us this evening so I wanted to share that with you. Yeah
so that just kind of reiterates Valerie's concerns that we had and why we kept those kindergarten classes small. What I would like to say is I would like the Board of Finance to fund the rest of the $97,000 that we can meet our contractual needs. The Board of Ed I feel has compromised. We came down on our budget. We worked very hard at getting grants, things of that sort to make up for that. And all I'm asking is that we fund the rest of that 97,000 so we can meet those contractual needs. I feel that we've done our part and I ask that the Board of Finance that they meet us there. Thank you. Thank you. Next up, Scott Persson. All set, Amanda, thank you. Thank you. Liz Lokiak? Go ahead, just unmute yourself. Yeah. I
have one question about what those contractual things were. And aside from that, I've pretty much given my feelings to the board about the budget as it is, but if someone could explain what is meant by those contractual things that would be helpful.
You're referring to as in the Board of Education? Yeah, what Dan was just speaking of. Yes.
Do we want to address that later after public comments over? Or should we address that now? Because I mean, it's a fairly I think it's a fairly simple answer having to do with the contract renegotiations for the teachers. Robert, this is Shannon. Can you guys hear me? Yep.
Okay. So very quickly, Liz, we negotiated two contracts in the last nine months. One was a four year teachers contract with the teachers union, and the second that we're hopefully gonna approve next Wednesday at the board of education meeting that already has been approved by the non certified employees at the school was the second contract that is also another four year contract. As a result of those two contracts, in order to meet our contractual obligations because because of the salary increase, benefit packages and whatnot, the Board of Education requires an additional $125,000 to our budget above and beyond what we have in this year's budget to meet those contractual obligations. So when we talk about contractual obligations, those are obligations that the Board of Education now has to meet contractually by virtue of what we've just entered into in the last couple months.
Okay. Thank you. So part of my other concern in terms of the budget is the very, very small students classroom sizes. And my opinion is that four classrooms probably could be cut and could save about $400,000 And I think that's something that should be considered. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Kathy Palazzi and Mike Palazzi. Thank you, Amanda. No comment right now. Thank you. Next up, Sarah Warner.
I just want to say that I think the Board of Education is well within appropriateness to be asking to meet the contractual needs. Understand that people think that classrooms can be cut, but I think when people reference class size and they're talking about how back in the day classes were larger, they're forgetting that these days education is completely different. The state requires a lot more, there's a lot more testing. I think that when we're looking at class size, you need to take into account how many special ed kids there might be in the class and like with kindergarten, how many of them were not pre K that makes a very big difference. I think when we're talking about class size, you really need to think about how it's different these days. And one of the big draws to Andover is their school system. I know my family along with a lot of other families came to Andover specifically because the schools are so wonderful. And I think when you compare us to surrounding towns and how their budgets might be lower, if you look at how their schools are rated, it is directly reflected in their ratings. So they have lower budget, but they also have lower rating. So I think you need to take into account our wonderful school system that we have. And we need to keep that because it continues to draw families into town.
Thank you. Thanks for being here. Next up Chris Bernard.
Thanks, Amanda. So yeah, just real quick. I appreciate the challenge that the board of finance has, and I really hope we can come to something that's passable by the community. We all did swear an oath when we joined our relative boards to serve those constituencies which we're supposed to serve. And so I agree, I think the board of education has done its due diligence in trying to get the budget to where it needs. One other thing I'd like to say is, I know this was somewhat portrayed as the seniors versus the board of ed. And that's certainly not the case, at least in my mind, I can't speak for the rest of the board of ed and several other members of the community, but we would love to support the seniors in the senior center. As a matter of fact, I even asked Sherri Holmes, our finance director, if we were allowed to even start a GoFundMe because I know I would be willing to put money into a fund to help move the senior citizens center along as best as we could. And so I'm certainly supportive of the senior center and hope that we can reach an agreement. And I do wanna touch on the class size. The previous speaker said that there's a different world and yes, it absolutely is. When most of us were educated, prior to about 1995,
we were educated to be widgets in a factory. We had a standard baseline of education and we were all meant to be replaceable. And I don't know how many people have looked around, but there's not a lot of factories around. There's a lot of very specialized services, a very lot of specialized education. And this is proven out in the research. And it's part of what I did my thesis on is my doctoral degree as a doctor of education. So that's it. Again, appreciate all the work everyone's done and everybody being here. I think it's great the involvement and really look forward to getting this passed. Thanks, Chris. Erin Borys.
Hi there. Thanks, Amanda. I just would like the Board of Finance to take a look at the idea of reinstating the funds around that roughly $22,000 so that the school can meet its contractual obligations. And I guess it's been the top topic around these class sizes. I have three children in three different grades, two of whom in the fall will continue to be in one classroom. So I don't know where the affordability is to be removing teachers when are we going to then be looking at fourth and fifth grade being taught by one person because that doesn't create a sustainable situation. So my hope is that the board continues to look at the finances and reinstates those funds so that the contract obligations can be met. Thank you.
Thanks, Erin. Charlotte Nelson. Amanda, I
have to say I was disappointed that the Board of Finance overwhelmingly voted not to meet the Board of Education compromise falling short of the $22,000 that was needed to meet those contractual obligations as was stated by Sherri Holmes, the Finance Director. I therefore urge the Board of Finance to strongly consider adding the $22,000 to the Board of Education budget at this meeting, bringing it to a total of $97,000 Now adding this additional $22,000 to the Board of Education budget would increase my taxes by another $17 and I'm happy to pay this. My children have each had an excellent education in a town where they grew up and I strongly believe that every child deserves to have an excellent education and I trust the superintendent and the board of education members that we have elected to determine what it takes to ensure an excellent education for Andover students. I would also be more than willing, as was suggested by someone at the last town meeting, to pay an additional $17 in taxes toward the senior center. And Chris Bernard, I'd be happy to work with you on a GoFundMe for this endeavor. Thank you.
Thanks, Charlotte. Brian Briggs.
Hello, Amanda. Hello, everybody. I just want to reiterate the fact that I support the budget increasing the increasing with the 97,000 for the Andover Elementary School. I could just I can go into it. I'm just going keep it short and simple. Everything else that the parents said were accurate and everybody else on this board, and I won't vote for the budget if it doesn't include that. And that's it. Thanks Brian. Joanne Hebert.
Hey, Amanda. First off, I just wanted to mention something that I think we all need to do going forward. I was very concerned with the lack of respect for our senior citizens while they were speaking. I wanna live in a town that is proud to have our senior citizens come out the way they do on a night, you know, they have long days as well. And I really could not stand them being screamed at while they were speaking. This is not, we're not talking about justice and world peace, we're talking about money. So we all can be just civil to each other and please respect our senior citizens, our wonderful people. That going forward, I just want to say that I think the Board of Finance is on the right track with the budgets they're presenting. They're trying to do their job. As far as contractual
agreements, they can be met, of course. That's the first thing that's met is anybody's contracts, personnel, that's getting thrown around a lot. As someone that studies finance, works in finance, and things like that, nothing that the kids need would ever not be given to them. There's contingencies, rainy day funds, emergency funds, of course, no child should go without. So we're just trying to balance it. And I think that whatever's taking place with kind of like a stranglehold being, we're not going to vote this or that. I just want the Board of Finance to be congratulated for doing what they're supposed to do. They asked for suggestions, they weren't given them, and so they did their best job of trying to please everyone. So thank you.
Thanks, Joanne. Mercy Miner. Mercy, just unmute yourself. Oh, there you are. Hi. Yeah, sorry about that.
Yeah, everyone knows where I stand. I just wanna remind people why I got involved in the first place. I started watching Zoom meetings and noticed that things seemed a little off. The selectmen and the board of finance seemed quiet about the budget, specifically the stand, their stand on the elementary school budget. I noticed a huge sense of intimidation in the rooms. I also heard from seniors about their disgust with the way things were going and were talking about leaving Andover. I thought about how detrimental it would be to lose so many seniors who are very valuable to this town. So I decided to speak up. And when I did, people were grateful. Unfortunately, most people do not wanna do anything noticeable to risk their stand in the town or gain the ire of parents who have children in the school. They all have something to lose. And I don't wanna tell you how much of a risk it is for me, but that doesn't matter. Because the more I see bullying, the more it makes me wanna stand up. The whole budget opposition to Andover Elementary School has never been about the children. We know that our children are very intelligent and can learn in any circumstance. They can learn in small, medium and large classes. I find it objectionable and I'm shocked that the parents don't feel the same that the board of education makes it appear that our kids are slow and can't learn in an environment with medium and large classes.
I'm really worried about how they will be treated in other schools after they graduate from Andover Elementary School. Parents will talk and children will listen. I hope that the children who were in attendance at the last couple of meetings will recognize their parents' behavior as inappropriate and not try to model it. My position is that I prefer to see a budget that is at least last year's budget and maybe even lower. They really are overstaffed and overfunded and it's time this nonsense has stopped. I would also like to recommend that we put money back into the capital funds budget for the town so we can keep our roads and bridges in shape. Thank you. Thanks Marcy. Next up Shannon Loudon.
Thanks, Amanda, and thanks to the Board of Finance. I just want to say very short and sweet. I don't want to be back here again next week commenting again to the Board of Finance about what the Board of Education needs and what we've asked for. We made a compromise proposal for a requested increase of $97,000 last Wednesday. You didn't give it to us. The budget was voted down on Tuesday. Now I've heard a lot of people say that they believe that there were people who voted down the budget on Tuesday who were voting down the budget because they didn't think the Board of Education needed any increase whatsoever. I want you to take a look back at all of the votes that have occurred at the budget meetings because I have, and I've paid very strong attention to those.
There's a core group of about 50 people who consistently have voted against any increase whatsoever, whether it's $37,000 $175,000 or now $75,000 Look at all of the votes. I'm not trying to tell you that there weren't some people who might have voted on Tuesday against the budget that didn't want to have any increase whatsoever. I'm simply telling you, I've looked at all the voting. And I believe that if you give the Board of Education what we asked for last Wednesday, which was an increase of $97,000 that you will get a budget that will pass next Tuesday at the budget meeting,
and then we will hopefully be able to pass it a referendum and be done with this budget process. This has been a long four months, five months, and we all want it to be over. We also support the seniors, and I am really tired of the divisiveness in this town between pitting the parents and the school against the seniors. You can ask Kathy Palazzi, I will speak personally. I have always supported seniors, senior projects, and many other things in this town other than the school. So please don't suggest that simply by advocating, not bullying, thank you very much, advocating for the Board of Education budget that we are dismissing seniors and not taking into account seniors. If the community center had been my project for the last ten years. Maybe I would have been more advocacy oriented for that. My project for the last six years has been on the board of education. I've taken it very seriously. I've put in a lot of time. Please listen to our superintendent. Please listen to the town's finance director. We no longer have a school budget manager. We have an impartial Town Finance Director who last Wednesday told you that she was concerned about her ability to pay the school's bills next year with the budget that you passed last Tuesday, excuse me, last Wednesday. Thank you very much for your time, Board of Finance. I hope not to take up any more of your time in the coming weeks.
Let's get a budget passed. Thanks, Shannon. Next up, Celeste Willard.
Thanks, Amanda. Obviously, clearly everyone is very passionate about this budget. Very passionate about our town, passionate about our seniors, passionate about our school children, and the children and the parents and the families in this town. And I think that if we go to the 97,000, I think as Shannon said, it will go to referendum and it will be passed and we can put this behind us. I don't want to, That's all I'm going to say. Thank you. Thank you, Amanda. Thanks, Celeste. Lucy Wilson and Rick Wilson. No comment right now, just listening. We're good. Thanks for being here. Next up, Wendy Kapp.
Hi everybody. I yeah I'm very happy to see this come to an end. I too am very very supportive of our town, of our students, of our seniors. I would very much like this to go in the right direction and have everybody come together again as a strong unit. Thank you. Thanks Wendy. Okay next up we have Kimberly Person. Nothing right now, Amanda. Thank you. Thank you. Jed Larson.
Hi, Amanda. I had a question on with our contractual obligations from the school. Does that mean that we could not cut a classroom at this point even if we wanted to?
With the board of finance like to answer that or at a later time.
I think that's something the board of Ed would have to answer. I don't know the answer to that question.
Mr. Larson, this is Shannon Loudon. I'll just tell you right now that I don't think it has to do with our contractual obligations necessarily for next year. But if we were intending to lay off any teachers, I believe that we would have already had to notify those teachers of our intention to do so. And we have chosen not to do that. We have been waiting for a long time to see what budget we were going to get, but that is then a decision that would be made by our superintendent. So all I can tell you is based on the contracts that we've entered,
our contractual obligations would require a budget increase next year of 125,000. And I do believe that we would have based on the current contracts been obligated already to notify any professionals in the school, teachers especially, if we were in fact intending to lay them off for next year. And I can't be more definitive about that I apologize that I'm not looking at the contract and I don't have it in front of me. Thank you. Thanks, Shannon. Jed, would you like to
say anything else? Yeah, my next question is that I understand that the kindergarten class is now, you know, it started out at 30, then up to 36, and now I think we said 38 or 39. Do we have any feel for why that is increasing and none of the other classes have shown any increase? I'm trying to determine if the tide is turned and the student population will be starting to increase going forward, or if this is a one year anomaly?
Mr. Larsen, my understanding is families are moving into town. Houses have been selling in this terrific real estate market. Families have been moving into town, and it just happens that they've been moving in with younger children, and enrollment is increasing in those class sizes in particular. I don't know if they've increased in other classes, but I know that the kindergarten class and the pre K classes, the class sizes in particular have been subjects of a lot of discussion. And those are the numbers with which we were provided by our superintendent this afternoon. So the enrollment for kindergarten that we now know of, it could still increase even more, as Jerry said earlier, is 38 students, nine of whom have never had pre K education, and at least three of whom already have been recognized as having special needs. Thank you, Jed. Anything else? My
only last comment is that as a senior, I don't necessarily view the budget debate is a divide between the seniors in the school. I am more concerned about the lack of funding to the town budget in the chronic underfunding over the years. And so I would recommend to the Board of Finance that the $25,000 that was cut from the roadwork be added back into the budget. And I just think that the town budget continues to be too low in comparison to what our needs are and it's for the citizens of the town to determine whether the town needs that extra money more than the school does at this point, but but my concern is the lack of funding to operate the town. Thank you. Thanks, Jen. Okay, next up we have Melissa gelquist.
Hi, yes, thank you so much. So I was going to address class sizes at all, but that seems to be a topic. And I'm sure many children could learn in large class sizes, but many children would not and would be left behind. I know, you know, at Ram Middle School and High School, the class sizes are about the same as what Andover has in their classes. So, know, moving forward onto the middle school and high school, it's not like these kids should be overwhelmed at all. They're very similar in the class sizes. You know, we're a community, we need to come together. We need to realize that nothing comes for free. There's a large group of us that would be willing to pay an increase in mill rate and the overall taxes. So, you know, I'm in favor of the increase of the 97,000 to meet the contractual needs for the board of ed. And, you know, I'm also in favor of what Jed just said as well. You know, this town needs more going for it. I think that's all. Thank you. Thanks, Melissa. Next up, Kelly Howell. Hello.
Was, I'm joining tonight, I wanted to just touch base on a couple of things and make a couple of comments. I would like to first of all request that the board of finance meet the board of education with that $97,000 request to cover the obligations for this school year and to be able to move forward and not have to keep doing these meetings every week for the twenty one-twenty two school year. But I would also like to request that because there are a lot of concerns within the town of maybe where money is being spent and whatnot, that I don't know if a committee can be formed like a subcommittee through the Board of Finance to maybe begin looking now at the twenty two-twenty three school year options as far as what can be combined, what can't be combined, etcetera, so that we're not next June in the same position we're in right now, that we've had an entire year to kind of look at what our options are. And maybe there's options to do some regionalization with Region eight to combine some of our services to help cut some of the costs, not only for our school, but for our town as well. So I wanted to kind of throw that out there. And then also, I want to just kind of also address that class size that a lot of people seem to be concerned about because it's hard to tell if people are concerned about the AES budget because of that class size or if they're just looking to cut a certain amount of money.
Because if you look at larger districts that have larger class sizes, they also have a full time BCBA in the school. They have a full time psychologist, a full time school psychologist, a full time special ed director. We don't have that at AES. So if we're gonna consider increasing our class sizes and eliminating these small classes, then we need to consider what's more cost effective. In actuality, it's more cost effective to have smaller classes than to pay for all of those services. So I guess the question is, what do we want more? Smaller class sizes, but saving a little bit of money or spending more money and having those additional services full time within our school to support those larger classes? Thank you very much. Thanks, Kelly. Okay, we have Eric Noons.
Hi, I wanted to say I'm in favor of the Board of Finance considering adding in the $97,000 I'm also in favor of the town looking more into the senior center. I just wanted to say looking moving forward. The town obviously has put off a lot of infrastructure and capital for many years and that's not going to go away nor is if you actually look at the enrollment of the school, it will eventually be going up again and those finances aren't going to go away either. Matthew I'd be in favor of the town looking into regionalization with Region 8 with Marrow and Hebron so they can maybe cut some of those overhead costs. I'd also be in favor of the town looking into land development for small businesses and stuff like that maybe off of Route 6. I just know I don't want to be in this position again next year having to look into where the budget is and all that. Thank you. Thanks Eric. Ryan Werner.
I know I've said pretty much hit everything on the head, but I just want to make sure that when you're budgeting for AES that you make sure that you're meeting all the AES contractual needs and that you're fully funding what was mutually negotiated between the teachers union and the town, and that you're not going to short fund them. You. Thanks Ryan. Jennifer Thompson. Nothing for me. Thank you. Thank you. Elizabeth Partridge.
Yes. So I have a couple of different issues, and mostly from things that people have already said. One individual said that we're doing such a good job that we're drawing parents, but it certainly doesn't show that in the enrollment. I did speak to someone who was in contact with the State Board of Education regarding the optimal class size. And the State Board of Education told them that the optimal class size is between eighteen and nineteen. And so, think that we're well below that in most cases. One problem with the small class size is the concept of being the odd man out. Imagine that you have 10 kids in your class, five boys, five girls, four of these girls get along well, and you're the fifth girl who's the odd man out. It's a lot harder for a kid who just doesn't fit in to stick out in that kind of situation. Someone had said something about this is a different world than what we grew up in. Apparently, it's not a different world in Bolton where the average class size of fourth graders is
19 and the average class size of first graders is 20. In Marlborough, the average class size across the entire elementary school is 22. In Hebron, the first graders average 18 and the fourth grades average 19. In Columbia, the first graders are 15 and the fourth graders are 23. So, apparently it's a different world in Andover, but not a different world in other places around here. I do have to agree with Marci. It does seem that there's an awful lot of bullying going on, and that really is unacceptable. I also think that using children a pawn within these meetings is unacceptable. We're there at these meetings to learn and to listen. And when we can't do that, it takes away from the meeting. And it's no different than if we had a protest outside their school. They're in their classroom trying to learn just like this is our classroom and we're trying to learn. The other thing about class sizes, I've spoken to two different teachers at Ram Middle School who say that the Andover students actually struggle because the class size is larger at Ram. So, are a lot of things going on here. And I think it's time, as Eric just said, it's time for us to start looking at, can we regionalize? Is there a way? If we have to have larger class time, can we regionalize and get a half time person in some of these other situations, the specialists that we need? We've got to find a middle ground. And what's happening is there's a group of people who are voting this budget down because they think it's too high, and there's another group that's voting it down because they think it's too low. And somewhere along the line, we need to find a middle ground.
Thank you. Caitlin McIntosh. All right, we'll circle back around. Next up, Dave Kwazewski.
I just wanted to say that I am in support of restoring the 97,000 for the Board of Education. I also wanted to express that, you know, we're in a pandemic, so it's obvious that education in a pandemic comes at a cost. Our little town of Andover has been highlighted for the success of educating full time in a pandemic. I work across the state in the town of Fairfield. They have not the first time they really got to school was probably in the springtime. So, you know, to punish our students and, you know, and take away when they're there, mask on every day in a pandemic, it just doesn't make sense. And history has told us that in a time of tragedy, we need to come together, not divide. And that's why, you know, I'm saying I'm here for the children, but also for the seniors. When you take these budget numbers and just put them into perspective, a hundred and hundred dollars or a $200 total increase in your house taxes for the entire year. Put that into perspective. Divide it by a day. It might be 30¢ or 50¢ a day. You can't even get a cup of coffee for that amount. So I'm here for the children,
the teachers, the school, and the seniors. So if you want to build a senior center, then I would certainly take on more of a tax bill.
Also, Stacy Klazewski here as well. I just wanted to add that by no means were parents trying to use our children as pawns, but what is really hard is that when we have to have both parents being able to vote, we have to have our children there. So my children are not at an age where they can be home by themselves. So that's what we had to do is expose our children to this situation here. And actually, I think having to inform them about what's going on when really it isn't something that children I know I never had to worry about having to think about my teachers or my school and what I was going to have to have at my school because I had no idea because I was a child. And there is something to be said for not having a revolving door for teachers, for there's a lot of teachers that have stayed in the school system
and you keep those teachers. They know what they're doing, their quality, and having them have this stress on top of everything else is definitely something that we wouldn't want to add to our teachers. Thank you. Thank you. Kevin Regan. No comment in particular right now. Thanks for being here. Jeff Murray.
Hi, just a couple things. I agree with Jed Larson that the $25,000 should be put back into the town budget. Anybody that's driven up Hendy Road and has seen the large dead ash trees hovering over the road can certainly sympathize with some more money required. It's a big problem and every time I go up there, I'm kind of asking myself, is today the day that the tree is coming down? In regards to, there was another comment with shared services and combining with RAM. Two years ago, there was a discussion about combining with Bolton at the town, at the Selectman's meeting. And I made a motion at the time and it was accepted that we would have a committee forum to shared services. And as far as I'm concerned, there was only two meetings that were done for that. And maybe Shannon can speak to that, but Shannon was the chair at that time. And we had looked into that two years ago. And to date, I really have seen nothing come to light except for the treasurer position, which was instigated by the town. Thank you.
Thanks, Jeff. All right, we're getting there. We're going to keep on going. Michelle Arenz. I don't have anything at this time. Thanks for being here. Kelly Hegarty.
Hi, thank you, Amanda. There's a lot going on with this budget, and it is a perfect storm. I think everything that Eric had spoke about Jed, and quite frankly, Sherry, in the last couple of meetings really hit things on the head. Keep comparing ourselves to the surrounding towns, Bolton, Andover, or obviously Marlborough, Columbia, Hebron. And what separates us from them is they I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there was infrastructure upkeep. There has been school support, but they also have revenue. I would also go out on a limb and say that most of them have higher taxes. So with that being said, we have to pay the piper. There are things that need to be done in town. I think that we have to suffer the increase this year, and we have to support all parties. Thanks, Kelly. Diane Greiner. I'm all set. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Rick Risley.
Hello. It's my wife's picture, but anyway, I'm a new resident. It's been a year. And I went to the two town meetings, I've actually watched some of the videos of both committees. And it's very confusing as a new resident to understand both the past and where the future is going to be in a couple hours of meetings and how to separate some of the facts from the fictions and the emotions. And it makes it hard to vote because I just don't know enough and I want to be factual on it. And so where my concerns are is that what's the end game? In other words, we're dealing with now with a budget, and I have no problem paying for a certification or paying for a senior center, but it's what's the end game, whether the number is going to look like five years from now, both education,
will we have a senior center, will we have trees falling on our roads? You know, is there any strategy for the future? Are we just kind of putting a Band Aid on every year on what we're doing with our money? You know? And it just I don't that's what I look at as an outsider coming in for the first time and sitting here watching. And it's you know, we need to find a balance and and try to figure out what's facts, what's fiction, and what's emotions. And and that's pretty much my comment from where I sit just, you know, watching what I see and trying to do an informed, make it an informed decision. Thanks for being here. Okay, Sheila Patrice.
Hi. First, I want to thank the members for all their hard work. I was a student at AES thirty six years ago. I walked up and down these halls. It was third grade. Mrs. Laffer was my teacher and she inspired me to say I want to be a teacher when I grow up. Though I didn't follow that path, it was because of AES and the impact that teacher had on me that made me want to emulate one of my heroes. I believe this is an investment in our future. This is where it starts. Just in my graduating class, we have alumni working in IT web design, elderly care, as an insurance professional, a college professor, a manager of an eating establishment, alignment, and owner of a contracting business, who by the way reached out to me indicating he's looking to come back to Andover because the school system his children attend did not compare to AES. We also have a current Andover resident and fellow schoolmate of mine who could not make it today. She's currently holding the interim executive director position at a local museum, which has performed education services for this very school. And finally, one more of my classmates has even gone on to work for NASA, a childhood dream that was supported throughout her education. Though not everyone can return home, when I reached out to my AES graduating class, there was an overwhelming response showing how AES shaped them into the contributing adults they are today. I was drawn back to Andover with my children because of my experiences here as a student. I'd also like to add while I'm in support of restoring the AES requested budget I'm also in support of a community center for the seniors
and with supportive budget that provides for both the center and the school. Thank you. Thank you. Mary Hoeller.
Hi, thank you. I could definitely relate to Rick about trying to catch up on what's going on in the town. It has been confusing. I did want to add something about class size because I'm so tired of hearing everybody talk about that. I know that there are 18 kids in my daughter's third grade class, and I know that there's 12 kids in my daughter's first grade class and that there's two first grade classes. So before everybody gets all worked up about class size, you need to get your facts straight. And I think that's where things are falling apart. Nobody knows the facts anymore. And we need to make sure the school budget is restored, and I'm in support of that. That's all I have to say. Thank you.
Thank you. Leigh Ann Hutchinson, just press 6. I know you're on your phone. Hi. No. Thank you.
Thanks for being here. Okay, all the little boxes keep moving around, I want to make sure I'm not forgetting anyone here. Let's just double check.
Amanda, did you see Oh, Caitlin Mac. Oh. Oh, go ahead. Caitlin Macintosh. Yeah. Hi. Sorry. I didn't realize that I showed up as as my wife's name. This is Michael Greenhouse. Caitlin McIntosh's husband. I just wanna say that I'm in support of restoring the budget to the full 97,000 that the Board of Ed has asked for. I'm also in support of supporting the senior center, gladly pay increased mill rate to support all of those things. And I also wanted to apologize for any ignorance that I might have surrounding the issue of can someone please help me understand the seeming incongruity with how much we pay per student to attend Ram versus what the other towns pay per student in attendance at Ram. And thank you to the board of finance as well for your hard work.
Amanda, to answer that question, if Eric could send him the formula that Ram uses to calculate the cost sharing.
Yeah well I think I think just to I'm sorry I missed your name. But I think that we don't pay any more per student for the ram's budget we paid all all towns pay the same amount per student, but the reason that Andover's overall costs went down is that we have fewer students at Ram this year. So, based on the fact that we have fewer students at Ram, our overall costs went went down. If that changes, you know, a couple of years ago was higher, right? If it goes back up and more people from Hebron graduate from Andover, our overall share of the costs will go up. Per pupil student costs are the same across the towns.
But there's a ratio that they do, but I think we're about 17% off the top of my head, where what the total student body is divided by each town's enrollment figures. And so we fluctuate, we had a two or three year period where we actually got hammered because we had relatively more kids in the school and now it's dropping back and we're seeing a benefit from that. So Ram's budget actually went up a bit but our cost went down a bit because we have a smaller percentage of the total student population.
So there's one other factor this year and that Ram gave back their unexpended fund balances in the entirety this year to the three towns, which is in large part why our total costs have gone down. Our share of the student population has decreased a little bit. It didn't decrease. Basically, they set the formula by which they apportion students as of the numbers as of October of the previous year. So it doesn't really reflect what's going into the school next year, it reflects what was in the school as of October of last year. So it's always essentially one cycle behind on the funding allocation. This year, because RAM was virtual for quite a while, saved a lot of money on buses and stuff, they returned a bunch of money to the towns by decreasing the towns allotment for the year. So you can assume if all else goes same and RAM has a level budget next year, our taxation for RAM will go up about $130,000 next year. So we're going to get hammered by RAM next year. Unless they have another surplus they return. Unless they have another surplus. Right.
And that brings up the other issue which is their bonding coming to fruition and the whole issue of what's done with that. That's a whole another thing to get into next budget cycle with RAMP.
All right, thank you. We have a couple more. I see that Linda Derek just joined us. And we'll circle back around. We also have Catherine Magaldi Lewis who just joined. Hi, thank you Amanda. I'm all set right now.
Thanks for being here. Thank you. All right, Linda Derrick, would you like to participate in public speak? And I'm just double checking to make sure we got everyone, but I believe so.
Hey, thanks everybody. Thank Next item on the agenda is really to discuss the budget and kind of what we do. Going forward for next week's meeting. Did send everybody I don't know if everybody had a chance to look at it. I was having a really hard time keeping track of all the passes that we did and what the voting was and what the numbers were so I could like visually see it in one place. So I did a little chart just so I could keep track of it. So I don't know if anybody found that helpful. I guess the one thing I do wanna say, and I'll just speak for myself as far as this goes, when we went to the meeting last night. I came, well, Tuesday. I came out of a meeting and it really didn't give me any direction. I mean, again, I thought we had something that would pass, you know, to go to referendum. And we thought that the time before and the time before that. So we're kind of
sitting here trying to figure out which way to go. Also I know is what we've done in the history in the, you know, the first pass that we went out there, we had the AS budget of four and a half percent increase. It passed the town meeting and it failed referendum. Second pass we went out there with an age, a s budget of increase of 1%. And it failed to pass into referendum. And it failed very closely, you know 51 to 58 last meeting, we increased the school back up to 1 point nine percent $75,000 and it failed dramatically at that meeting. So obviously there's a total impasse in that group that attends the town meeting so it's kind of hard to gauge a direction, or what is what the town is willing to support on both sides. It's, it's kind of crazy. So I mean, I guess I would like to get everybody's thoughts on the Board of Finance and how they feel about it and where do they think
they want to go? May I just Yep,
go ahead. I'll just throw this out there. I think you all and anyone who's been following our meetings knows that I was supportive last time around. Was the sole supporter for what's been repeatedly proposed tonight, which is to, you know, throw 22 more back in and get to 97 for the increase for AES. I understand what you're saying and I feel the same way that we're trying to thread a needle here where we have to get a budget both out of town meeting and then passable at referendum and these at times have seen at cross purposes. I understand your point. I think we ought to try it. I think there's some real benefit in the idea that our next referendum, I think hopefully, at least if Boris Lechman has circled back on this, to get our advisory questions on the ballot. So we'll have some direction if it does fail, actually, we'll have direction either way. But if it does fail, we'll have a clearer picture. And part of this, that's to speak to your confusion and your concern about where the votes are. If we go to referendum with this budget, if we go to 97 and we go to referendum fails, we should have results from those answers. The other thing I want to just mention, pretty much everybody here knows I wear two hats. I'm a member of the Board of Finance. I also have two kids in this school. And I just want to make a couple of quick points on that. I have a second grader and fifth grade. My second grader indeed has a well actually right now they both have very small class sizes. I agree. They're 12 and it's great. And I will just say I've seen the benefit of that as a parent. But I also say that in a lot of our grades, not every single one, the big debate over the kindergarten class I understand,
but for most of our grades, it's one or two, it's 12 or it's 24. There's no 18 because our school is so small. You can't, if we had a bigger school system and we could rejigger things so that you're going to three classes to two and you're going from 12 to 18, know, it'll be a lot more palatable, I think to a lot of the parents, including myself. 12 to 24 is a massive jump and I think that's where the sticking point is. I think that's where a lot of the parents are like wait a minute, going from 12 to 18 is one thing but going to 24, I think back to my school career and a lot of people are doing this, right? We all look back at our own pasts. And I look back at it and I think to myself, have I ever been in a class size of 24? I'm not sure I have in grade school anyway. Maybe at Trinity I might have had a class that big but not in grade school. So just as a point of information, a lot of those, it's not flexible. We have one or two and it's not great. I'd love to have more enrollment where we'd have more flexibility and we want people to move into town and we want young parents to come in here and it seems like maybe we're getting a bit of an influx which is great. It would relieve a lot of issues we have.
So anyway, I I was just throwing out there. You all know where I stand. I I was supportive last time. I remain supportive of meeting the compromise number and taking it to town meeting and hopefully passing it through the referendum and seeing what happens. That's my spiel.
Wanna point back to Rob's point, and I just wanna say, I get what Rob is saying, And I understand his position. But I'm going back to the last meeting that we had, and we had an increase of $75,000 you know, 1.9% for the school, and it failed to pass 128 votes to 58. So that was a significant amount. So, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact of going back with more money when the 75 didn't even fly. And I can't tell you what's driving those numbers because it's, we don't know because it's not a representative of what's gonna happen at Refinery and what happens at the town meeting.
Yeah, I think others should speak but I'll just say when we're done we go around.
I have a thought on that. Okay. All right. Anybody else from the board finance, love to hear your thoughts. Hi. Hi, Linda.
From the meeting the other night, I. And from when the referendum went up. I don't know if it's so much the seniors against the parents or, or anything, or if the people are just thinking the budgets too high. We have no real way to judge it or measure it. So I'd be happy to either leave the budget where it is, or put it to zero increase. See if that makes everybody happy. Right. Anybody else.
Yeah, I think that it's, you know, first of that's going to make everybody happy. Know, I think all the scenarios we've postulated or proposed or, you know, responsible but it's up to the town people townspeople the taxpayers the voters actually. Weigh in on what's acceptable and I you know rob's right flinda's right you're right then we've we don't have good information right so. I would not put it to zero because I that's I think very problematic in terms of what I think we have a very strong constituency that that feels very strongly about that. So I'm not sure that that would pass, although I know a lot of people think that it would. There is no good way either in these meetings or by email or at the town meeting to guarantee kind of guess which is where people are headed as you know in a majority. What would a majority work for? I think we have to have everyone recognize that there needs to be a compromise here. It's not going to be likely zero I don't think and it's you know it's certainly not going to be four and a half percent, even though I had actually passed enough to get the referendum and then we saw what happened there.
You know, I think we need to find a middle ground I think that's much more likely and. It would. Hopefully we reach something where we could convince people that we need to take this to a vote, and if people will vote it down they vote it down, but the only way we're going to. Achieve any kind of forward progress here is if we get to referendum ask those four questions if it fails, we understand, then that we're where we need to go. I think we need to we need to convince people that look this has got to move forward if we keep this back and forth.
It's just not going to happen, we can't we can't pass a budget that's too high, the recommended budgets are too high because it's going to get voted down but. You know what's palatable it's it's a it's tough one that's a that's going to be a tough one I don't know I don't know the answer.
We're all struggling to find the answer that one. Comments.
First of all, I think the meeting the other night, I think the vote wasn't really a clear indication of what people were really thinking. I think a lot of people didn't understand what they were voting on due to maybe some miscommunication as far as what ballot you're supposed to use and what you were voting on. And also part of the noise level that was in the room. I feel at this point going to the 97 probably would at least push it to referendum But doing that also, would like to put back the 25,000 back into the town budget. Doing that might cause more of an increase, but I'm hearing from a lot of people who attended the meeting that they can afford it. It. I feel both of those things should be put back in to that level. Kurt, Dave, have an opinion?
I'll I'll I'll chime in, Diane. I I didn't attend the meeting, but I did watch it on video twice to try to get a feel of of how it went, and I was the same way. I I I you really couldn't figure out which way we have to go. I'm gonna shoot shoot back to the original request that that we had put out when we started this whole process was and and every every board and commission in town kind of answered us exception of the Board of on some ideas if we had to make cuts where would the best place to be you know to make those cuts and and that didn't happen from the Board of Ed. I'm listening to all the comments tonight all good but looking at it to get this thing back to a back to an actual vote where and I agree with what Mark said, you know, because I was the one that brought up that we should put questions onto the ballot, to to give us a clear way one way one way or another of what to do but I to do that I think you know I agree with louise let let's let's put back the $22.00 and let's put back the 25,000 into the into the town budget and let the people decide again and then you know we're definitely going to come you know we're going to leave there with either a a budget or without a budget but we'll know then where we need to to concentrate. So I think that's the only way we can move right now. My thoughts. Dave, do you want to weigh in?
Sure. Yeah, I left that meeting more confused. I think there's been some comments that have really upset some people. They've dug in their heels. And I think a lot of people just voted down the budget because they just don't want any increase at all. And some people want some crazy reductions, which can't be done. The only thing is as difficult as the town meetings are, they're relatively affordable. If we go to referendum, that gets costly on the town. I would like to see if we can hammer this out of the town meeting. I'm almost of the rule of thumb to send it back and see what happens as is. Because I know there's some people that after the meeting said I'm not going vote for any increase.
There's that side of the coin as well.
And I just want to go back to the last minute when we were talking about the $95,000 restoring that. That offer was contingent upon surplus funds staying with the school at 78,002 so they were asking for really more than the $95,000
Is that what everybody's recollection was? I don't, I think they've already made that decision. They pre spent that money. So that action has already been taken. Moved around some of the things that they were spending on and managed and so that they could move forward from spending into this year, so that they could. Alleviate the additional additions to the budget for next year, so I don't think that.
They prepaid some stuff and and you know, ultimately that's not, that's their purview. Know, we can agree or disagree with what they did, but they did it. More discussion does anybody.
I want to revisit a couple things. And, you know, with respect to the way it was voted down, the budget was voted down in the meeting. I respect and I even said this today because he was sitting next to me and I do agree. I think there was a certain percentage of the people who voted no, who voted no because they thought it was still too high. But I think it was very clear that there was a large contingent in that meeting. I think a clear majority that was not gonna pass that through the meeting because the AS budget was too low in their opinion. Now, here's the thing. And this is difficulty we face. If we can't get a budget out of town meeting, we don't even get to referendum and we don't get a budget. Okay, so my take is, look, the parents mobilized and came out. That's what happened. All right, if you look at the attendance meeting one, meeting two, three, right up, up, up. And what increased was very clearly to me. I mean, looking around people I recognize again, I'm a parent in school. It was the parents coming out. So my take is this is a modest $22,000 increase that could get us buy in from that group of people to get us through the referendum. If it fails a referendum, I understand it's a risk. Yes. We'll have advisory questions that'll help for guidance purposes. But I do think that it's the best course of action at this time. Also, I'll just say, I would be supportive in adding the 25 back in that we cut out of the road budget. I didn't think that was a great cut in the first place, but it was one of these things where we were trying to be equitable because we were cutting the board of ed budget.
It wasn't actually based on much else. So, and again, at town meeting, we can only cut. So if we increase something, there's always that opportunity for emotion to cut something back. Hey guys, you got that wrong, we should cut that 25 back out that can happen. You should put that 25 back in cannot happen. That's my point.
Take a bet on whether cutting that 25 out again, what happened? I don't know. Doubt it, but
Just I'll put out just the numbers because we're talking about it. We were to reinstate that amount, I think it was a $97,000 increase that the Board of Education had requested or suggested as a compromise. That's an additional 21,400 roughly from what we offered last time, not quite 22,000, so little under. That does take us to an increase of about 2.5%, and a mill rate, for what was last time was 36.51, that would take us to 36.59. The tax increase would go from 5.3% and their total to be raised by taxation to 5.6%. So just some numbers there.
And then the low rate 25,000 that didn't do anything there. The mill rate increases still be about two and a half though, right? Because again, there's the disparity between the overall tax increase because the mill the grant list went up. Increase would be 2.76. Okay, so we were about 2.4 last meeting. We were at 2.53 last meeting. Okay. Quarter of a mill. Give or take.
No, less than a quarter of a mill quarter of a percent. Sorry. Yep, you're right.
Hear your comments. I hear your position. I understand your position. But I still think the school budget's too high at a 2.5 increase. I'm still stuck on now more than 2% from what we sent him last time. That's kind of where I sit. I don't know how anybody else feels about it. I think, you know, it failed miserably this week. So, I don't know who's voting no. There were 128 noes, 58 yeses
I'm not meeting so that's. Yeah, I think it's a mix I think to think otherwise is cool. It's not all proponents for school spending and it's not all proponents for school. I have no idea what the motivation behind the nose were.
Go on Kurt. Sorry. Take into consideration and Rob was highlighting the amount of people coming to support the school. The majority of your seniors, number one, can't get out. They're not going to come out at a late night meeting, but they they will show up to vote, whether it be absentee or riding the bus to go vote. So it wasn't a really good cross reference of the total town of Andover voters. Being a lifelong resident of the town, I've I've seen many, many, many of these meetings, you know where these special interest groups come out and they you know they they're heard and they should be heard but don't forget the you know the people that can't get out and and
you know until unless it's when it comes back down to the actual vote so my whole purpose was of tapping on top of what Louise had said let's let's let's go back and try it again and then see how everything shakes out as far as the questions go pass or fail I kind of think we're at that crossroads so we can kick everything around you know for now you know, forever. We need to have another vote somehow get it get it to their get it to a town referendum, whether it costs us extra money or not. Right now, you know, we're not going to make the know, the tax the bills for for next year. So I don't know. Just getting my thoughts.
Alright. Rodney, if if if we go back with the same budgets, can you vote it down again? I mean, it just lost measurably. And, you know, look again, with all due respect, I've been doing this for just as long as you have longer even and the board of finance at least. And I understand there's people who can't make a meeting. I'm a single parent now. I come to some of these meetings literally because I'm the board of finance. I have two kids. I sent them out back to play. They spent the whole several hours that we were in there yelling each other out back playing soccer or whatever. Okay, because that's what I needed to do to get there. Other parents don't necessarily do that. The parents mobilized to come out, which in my recollection is not actually all that common. In my recollection, the number of times I've been on this board, we've gone through these budget meetings, they're often dominated by retirees. I mean, no disrespect to anyone, you know, come out. Absolutely. But the idea that, you know, the parents are a special interest group. Let's let's not do that. Okay, we all have. We're all residents in town, we're all taxpayers this town. Okay. My issue is this. If the vote would have had been close. I totally, know, Diana, understand what you're saying. If the vote had been closed, if it was back when it was 5148, 5158, I was totally confused. Like I didn't know what to do with that.
This one got voted out, this one got killed. And it got killed pretty clearly, even if you account for the fact that some of those no votes were the budgets too high, there was a massive faction there that was in favor of increasing the school budget. And we do nothing if we don't get out of town meeting. That's my point. And we're literally talking about $22,000
I tend to agree with Rob here and not that I was necessarily in favor of it, but I just think that this is a practical matter. We have to be practical people, we have to move this town forward and we have to move this budget process forward. I don't see a real good way to do that right now other than get a budget that is going to get through town meeting. There's clearly a lot of people who feel that the spending is too high. I'm sure this is true for most of the Board of Finance members. Certainly I got deluged with emails this week, and the vast majority of them were people who felt that the spending was too high. And that there every bit as much of the constituency of the voter is the people who did go to the town meeting, but I think that Rob is right, I think the majority of the. Strength at the town meeting has been you know the or the weight of the town meeting or the you know if you want to call it that has been. Know parents or other people it's not just parents who feel strongly that the you know the Board of Education's request should be honored and we've got to get this budget out of that town meeting and we've got to get it to referendum.
Oh, we're going to kind of. If you want to go that strategy so we, and you know, if it passes it goes to referendum and fails. We're then looking into this year. Yeah, I mean, don't like it. Don't like that. Have to do. Nobody likes it. Mean, hi.
I just want to say, I don't want to do it. I'm happy with the school budget at a 2% increase. Started at eight, I think point something, I'm willing to put the 22 into the school and the 25 back to the town. And if it gets voted down again, I'm gonna say 0% increase for everybody. That's the way I feel right now.
Can I just throw one addendum on that? If we have the advisory questions on and we get a clear signal, obviously, I would hope that we would all respond to that. Right? If it gets voted down, but you know, we get a clear signal out of the responses to the advisory questions. Well, you're talking about if it gets voted down at the town meeting. I'm talking referendum, referendum. Town meetings is another story. Town meetings is much harder to tell. I agree. Mean,
a town meeting is much harder to tell. It's much less representative. We always have, you know, the turnout at town meeting, even though it's way up is always a fraction of what it is at referendum. So Linda, if that's what you meant, I understand. I'm just saying that if we get it to referendum and it fails, And we have advisory responses, then we can respond to. Right. That'll give us direction.
Anybody want to make a motion. Before I make mine, I'll let you go first.
Okay, I'll do it. I'll do it. Do we want to do these do you think we should do them separate or as a combined thing doesn't separate
let's let's make it pretty clear what we've done. We do it. Okay, just easier. Alright, so Oh, Sherry has a point to make.
I just want to point out one thing. And it's not going to be popular. I know. I meant I went to a lot of town meetings. Okay. And it's pretty classic. What's happening now is that the parents are coming out and they're speaking. And I heard it loud and clear that they want that increase 22,000 in the Board of Ed budget. And what's going to have to happen, and I think it will, is that will be more support coming out on the school side now, because they realize how serious it is. And now this is a game. We can't be playing games like this, you know. And it's very nerve wracking, say Luis. And I also think that the town should have $25,000 put back into it for the roads or trees or whatever the case may be. But there's one thing that you're not addressing,
and that's the seniors. They feel like they're slighted. And I don't know if there's something that perhaps we can do to make them understand that we're not sliding them at all. We really aren't. I wish there was something that we could put towards the further along the community center. And that would bring some support, I believe, If we were making an effort, you know, of addressing all the situations and all the issues that I see came up in that town meeting.
I'll just say that a meeting ago, not this last meeting, the one before a question was asked, I think it was Don who asked it. And Adrian on the board, Seckman responded with a fairly detailed breakdown of where we are on the senior center, a community center, whatever you want to call it. And, you know, we made like real progress on that in a way that, look, I've been in town now for fourteen years. Mhmm. And for the vast majority of those years, the senior center was this notional thing. Someday. Now we have a spot, we've got schematics, we got an engineer starting work, you know, they're looking into bonding, all this and that. The only other way I can possibly think of to address that concern would be to add money to the fund. But the thing is, okay, so we have about a half $1,000,000 in that fund, I believe. And we're putting 50 ish and we're adding 50 to get back to 500. Right. And are the only estimate I've heard yet, excuse me about the total cost of that building is maybe a million bucks. So we're halfway home. Yeah.
The real issue is just kind of driving the project forward. And I think that the boards can make that clear at Taumin that that's a real thing. This is happening. We're gonna do it. Right. This is happening. We've got half of it put away. We've got engineering going on. You've got ton of yeah you know
to go along what Rob's talking about I think the only thing that they that needs to be done is the committee and the board of selectmen need to broadcast to the townspeople of where they are with the senior center you know we know that there's a lot of there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes but they haven't been really, you know talking it talking about around town that's what people don't know, the town is spending money they're they're you know there's no doubt we're gonna be looking at that's either a bond issue or something to actually fund it you know or large tax increase one the other is going to have to happen and it will happen but they they need to more be a little more transparent of what's what's already happened and what's what's what's happening now and what's going to happen in the future and that then that would that would put everything to rest in regards to the the senior center, you know, and you're right they've kicked that around for forty plus years in this town and in the last I would say in the last two years or whatever the committee was was decided, they've done more work in in that short amount of time, but they haven't advertised what they've done.
That's also PR issue, like we really are making major major strides here. 100%.
We know it because because we see it we see it with the figures and stuff and we get the report both the capital improvements and the board of finance meetings. So I just need the board of selectmen and the committee need to be a little more transparent of what has happened and what is happening and what's gonna happen in the future. Right and this is why I really liked what Adrian did two meetings ago. Right. He really spoke to that. Yep. I
agree with Kurt. I know what's going on but that's because I've been informed by being on the board and all that stuff. A lot of seniors don't know that there is money out there being funded already for the senior center. And I want as a senior, I don't feel slighted. I think things are being progressive but it's a slow process. Yep, I agree. Mark?
So, I'm gonna say something here that's not popular. And that is the town is no business building a senior center until it maintains and can maintain the buildings it already has. And we're frankly not doing that. And we're not funding that at the level we need to. And, know, we're talking about building another brand new building, but we still haven't addressed all the things that are on the project list, you know, and we keep cutting that too. So, I mean, I kind of think that, you know, and I don't know what the solution is because, you know, I've been a resident in town most of my life. I've been to a lot of budget meetings.
And I can tell you that more than likely based on prior experience, that a total tax increase of five plus percent will probably fail at referendum. Now, maybe it won't. Maybe we can get enough support from the school to get through an increase of that magnitude, but typically that doesn't. And I'm not even saying I know what the final solution is. Part of the reason and part of what the Board of Selectmen asked me to do was to lay out all the expenses that the towns had, from roads, to bridges, to culverts, to buildings, to every physical asset we have, and then come up with a long term plan for maintenance and getting us to where we should be. And we have that planning document,
but last year, you know, and we came up with what the numbers should be, but we still haven't actually funded those numbers. And maybe we can't, and maybe the taxpayers aren't gonna give us the money to do that. Certainly at the town's side, what we've done is we've cut the heck out of town staff. We've reduced the total staff hours in the town hall by about 25% to be able to put some money into capital. But in truth, it's kind of ugly here now, and that's unfortunate too. So I'm not saying you know, any money you put back into capital will be well spent, but the fundamental problem is, you know, there's a limit to what the taxpayers of town will give us in any one year, and that is marginally sufficient to run a town on any kind of reasonable basis. And that's it.
Tom, I think you were in the process of making a motion. It might be a good time to do that.
All right, so I was gonna make the motion to add from our last, from where we were last time, 22,000 to the school budget for a total increase of 97,000. Okay.
If you want to do an increase over last year of 97,000, it'll be slightly less than 22,000. Do you want the number or do you just wanna use the 22,000? I apologize. I thought that was the number. It's a rounding now.
Oh, it's a rounding issue? Okay. Well, we should be precise.
I believe the ask about twenty one thousand four hundred or two if you want be exact.
All right. Twenty one thousand three hundred ninety two to get us to 97 as an increase, I believe, is the ask so that's my that's my motion. There a second. For discussion purposes I'll second. Okay discussion. Feel we kind of talked it out. I'm okay.
I'm gonna just go ahead, Dave. I'm Trying to get this to move forward. I understand. If this gets to referendum, if I vote for this and this gets to referendum. And it happens to be one of those line items people want to cut. Be prepared for me to bring it up if I'm still on the board if I don't expire before. Fair enough Dave. They may all expire. Dave, fair enough.
And not just the Board of I'm not picking them out or excuse me, Board of Ed AES. I'm not just picking them out. That goes for any of those questions on there. Whether I'm just a town member after this, those I'll push for whatever the referendum brings back to be cut. So that's just my position.
I think that's entirely fair. And I tend to agree with, with David. You know, part of what we have here is you know, there isn't anything we've done that I think has been egregiously unreasonable given that there's strong support for for different options within different groups in the town. But, in the end the town has to vote yes or no on a budget. So we need to move this forward and if and if it's voted down, and you know we we have a significant amount of feedback that says we need to reduce this or we need to add that we need to respond to that and, and that's what we do and then we push like heck to get that thing through town meeting because that's the only way we are all going to move forward. Totally agree. Great.
I still think two and a half percent is too high, I think we should go back with what we had. So that's my opinion, but we do. This is just for discussion purposes. We have right now we're at the crossroads because we know next year is going be very difficult and we just have a lot. We have to be firm on. We have to start being creative and think of different ways to get things done. So, know, Eric brought up a lot of good points about the ten year plan and how, you know, our commitment to funding that and keeping that going and trying to build a new building. There's just a lot of priorities in this town and they all can't be number one, Unfortunately, it would be nice to make everybody happy. But that's all. Anybody else have any other item for discussion they wanna say? Based on what up Shannon at the last
the compromise that she said, she also mentioned that she would have the backup. It sounded like she would have the backup of the school for that. So I'm assuming with us going to this amount that should pass based on the school population, the school parents and all that. Adding in the 25,000, which I would like to do, I'm hoping we don't have a battle not a battle but a more discussion from the senior side saying that okay now we're getting too high they can't afford it being on this fixed budget. So there's just two ways of looking at it and if Shannon is still on there, is she still at the same what she had mentioned before as far as how she feels the support will be? If
I may real quick, this is Dan. I feel very confident just so I kind of know the temperatures of the water at the school and I feel very confident that if you go back up to the N97 that this will have the parent support.
Okay, I'm just hoping that doesn't become a senior versus school issue because of And the F-twenty
you know, hoping that it's being perceived that way, you know, I remember back a couple of years ago when I first got onto the Board of Ed, there was a issue with the class size and the senior, no, it wasn't the class size, it was the senior center on wing and things of that sort. And I remember on that day that myself and other parents said that we want a senior center built and we fully support our seniors, they're an intricate part of our community and we said then that we did not mind paying higher taxes if it meant the seniors got what they want and the school got what they needed so. Right, but I'm bringing up the senior population now, the ones that are on fixed
budgets. So I'm just hoping it doesn't cause them to go the other way.
They do vote and I think the referendum is really going to be the key. I wouldn't be surprised as Eric said, if this is voted down at referendum if we if we pass this. But then we will have more information, and at least then we can make some more intelligent decisions on where we need to move to get some kind of compromise that this town is going to agree to.
And I see that you're there with Jerry. Does Jerry feel the same way? I'd like to hear from Jerry who is a senior and also you're chairman of the board, right? Correct. Right.
'm a senior citizen as well and I'm on a fixed income Me too. I'm
going to attend the senior citizen luncheon tomorrow and I'm feeling from seniors that there is support for this for the budget as you're talking about it now. I think if you think about it, we're one town, we need to come together and we don't need things that are gonna divide us. I say, make the modifications, send it to a referendum and the referendum with the advisory questions will probably give you all the answers that you're looking for. And even if it passes, you'll have information. So I think it's a great idea to try to move it out of the town meeting and into a referendum. I myself would support it. Jerry,
do you have a special guest that will be joining you at the senior luncheon tomorrow?
Well, Valerie, I know who's going, Valerie Bruno. And she'll be there. She'll be there. She'll answer any questions that seniors have. And hopefully the seniors will leave that coming out with a comfort level that they will support the budget. Awesome I think that's great.
Louise really quickly I was going in and out and I heard you mention my name I'm now on the phone this is Shannon So I'll just I'll just add to Jerry and Dan that I absolutely would support. I think what you're talking about is the board of ed being an increase of 97. What was the $25,000 that that you also were going to be asked to be added back in on the town side? That's where I was going in and out on my phone. I apologize. Road budget.
Yeah. This isn't public speak. Can we get on with this? Correct. I was trying to answer a question. Sorry.
You answer the question since it was out there? The 25,000 that we cut last time was out of the road budget.
Diane I call a question. Can we take a vote?
Yeah, because everybody want to vote. Let's do it. Yes. All in favor. Aye.
Kurt is yes. Yes. Rob is yes. Yes. Mark, you're abstaining. No, never mind. Louise? Yes. Linda? Yes. Yes. Okay. All right. So, all right. All opposed. Nay. Abstentions, Mark? Okay.
Diane, I believe Dave Hewitt voted for it also. Am I correct? Is You voted yes. Okay. So the motion passes.
Okay. I'll follow that with emotion, at least for discussion purposes to increase to go back to increase the road budget by 25,000 to get us back to where we were before we made the last cut. I'll second that. Any discussion? No. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye for me.
Aye. Any abstentions? Alright. That passes. I say yeah. Okay. All right. We are down to item four on the budget and I was talking about a proposed bill rate because
Diane before we get to there, you entertain one other fairly small change? Sure. Okay. So we were fortunate in that the new hire for public works is single. So I'm gonna propose one decrease and two increases, but it'll be a net decrease. And that is we decrease the line item for health insurance for public works by $8,000 And we subsequently increase the overtime budget for public works by 2,000. And we increase the salary line item by a total of 3,000.
If I'm hearing that right, it's a net decrease of three? Correct. Okay,
Eric. So those are all in public works? Those are all in public works. And the reason is that gets us closer to what we're actually probably likely to spend.
Well, I'm in favor of accuracy and budgeting. Is that just something we didn't realize when we were originally putting together these numbers? Where did the salary increase come from?
So the salary increase is to give the Board of Selectmen the ability to take one long time public works employer and upgrade him from a maintainer two to a lead maintainer, which is something frankly the town should have done quite a while ago because he's, essentially been acting as the number two in the department for quite some time. And since we've kind of broken everybody into two teams effectively, one team should have a lead maintainer in it.
Eric if I may you apparently you haven't met your new employee's girlfriend yet have you? You may want to run that by her first. So what to do with that? The
decrease is to pay for this is coming from health insurance benefits, it's coming from benefits? Correct. And the overtime?
So just looking at it objectively, one of my concerns is that for non storm over time, we have a problem if we have a significant storm event. We obviously went quite a bit over OT last year. But part of that was we had so many trees and so many instances of blocked roads because of it. We've cut an enormous number of trees, but we still have a huge window of vulnerability right now. So I was just looking at that and thinking that that was, if there was one small place where we should put a little extra money, that would probably be one.
My other question is, so someone chooses not to, you know, get their health insurance through the town. What happens if that changes? We're screwed. So one way We have our contingency fund.
Okay. I mean, I will be pretty honest in that you and the board of selectmen asked me to produce an exact budget. So if somebody increases, so there is zero baked into the healthcare in terms of ability to expand. So you're right, if a particular employee were to, for instance, get married and bring somebody else on board, we would be having to take $10 out of contingency to cover that.
And we always have the risk at open enrollment time for somebody to opt in anyways, right? Absolutely. Okay. Do I have a motion for that from anyone? Just
to clarify that the health insurance line is the health insurance dental line. Guys probably don't need to know this, sharing my bed. So 014115. Correct. To help insurance dental under public works. You. And that line is going to decrease by 8,000. The salary overtime is going to increase by 2,000. And the salary line in itself will increase by 3,000. I just wanted to make sure we got what you're recommending. Correct.
Okay, thank you. And we hope to God that it doesn't backfire.
Well, things happen we have contingency we we think we do our best job to budget is accurately as we know. Right, but provide for contingencies of this unexpended fund balances for so my my view. Okay, thanks I'm just recording those is what if in case this passes. Is that one motion do you think. Because. Involved.
I think we can put it all together because all related. Yeah I mean I agree.
Small adjustment net, we can explain it pretty easily. Okay.
Mark has the actual line items, but I'm comfortable with Eric's recommendation. So I'll move that we do that, that we add, that we subtract rather $8,000 from public works health and dental. We can add the number in appropriately and then we add was it $3,000 to the salary line item? Correct. Okay and $2,000 to the overtime line? Correct. That's my motion. Second. I'll second it. I'll from Louise. All in favor.
Aye. Any opposition. Hearing none. Any abstentions. No. Okay. Pass. Done.
$3,000 Thank you, Eric, by the way for all of that. No worries.
Okay, We're ready to move on? Okay. Item four, recommendation of the Board of Selectmen for adopting a proposed mill rate for twenty one-twenty two. So, if for some reason this budget does not pass, this is our last hurrah, We have to know what we're going to do come July 1. And it's kind of we have Dennis here with us too. I do believe he gave us an opinion. I don't know if anybody's had a chance to look over the opinion letter that came out late this afternoon. But it basically summarizes that the Board of Selectmen's have the power to set the mill rate. If we don't have to budget, expenses have to stay at the current appropriation level that we have with the current budget.
And that they would the board of Slack would be looking for us to make a recommendation, but they have the final say. Am I summarizing that correct? You did a wonderful job. Okay.
Right on. Save me a lot of you. You don't wanna hear me talk for half an hour. Because I will if you let me. He's our retainer. Ah, lawyers. You got it exactly right. That was wonderful. Okay.
Now, the question is what the number should be because we don't know what the budget would be.
Right. We've done this once before in my recollection. My recollection is clearly not right because I remember the Board of Finance setting a mill rate and as you've just explained it, we recommended it in the Board of Select and blessed it. But I do recall us doing this once before. We were in a position where the budget was contentious and we weren't getting it through and we did set set a recommended mill rate. Obviously, it must have been that the board of selectmen at the time approved it. The tricky bit is this. If we set it too high then you have this situation where in theory you have to
send money back. We don't want to do that. You know,
we set it too low you have to do supplemental appropriation Right. Which we also don't want to do for very, for obvious reasons. So, what's our drop dead date on this? I I understand. So, we have a town meeting on Tuesday. Right? If that passes. Referendum will be the twenty second. Mhmm.
Which is just a hair before July 1. If it fails, know? No question, I'm just I don't know what the lead time is for getting the tax bills out. I guess
well my question is this, if we get through town, if we don't get through town meeting next time, I assume we're going to have another emergency Board of Finance meeting. But that referendum would be after July 1. No, no, I'm saying if we don't make it through town meeting. Right. You would then probably immediately have another one of these. These. Right. At which we can discuss this. If we don't have that scenario, if it gets passed through, we have the referendum, but then we have almost no time to react is what you're saying.
Right. So if it passes next week to go to referendum, referendum will be the twenty second. Right.
If it fails there, we got no time. If it passes there, you know, we'll get the tax bills out probably late because I don't think we can get them out in a few days. We have a board of finance meeting on the twenty third, right? The fourth, day after, It's usually Wednesday. Our usual meetings are Wednesdays, So I think our next meeting is June 23 or twenty fourth, whatever
that date is. Well, I mean, we're we're so far past that. We're just doing so okay if we feel the need that we have to set or recommend rather a mill rate tonight My gut feeling and believe me all of you chime in is that if we're recommending a given budget we should recommend a mill rate that is commensurate with it. We don't have anything else to better to go on. Otherwise, you're just throwing a dart aboard.
I'm kind of reluctant to set a mill rate based on what we're going to go to the meeting with on Tuesday because I don't know what's going to happen. So am I. Because I would rather it's an account, it's a nightmare to send bills out wrong and have to have to refund money because we know if it fails at referendum, we're going to be coming back and we're going be looking at cuts. We're not gonna be at the same level. I'm assuming the only reason it's gonna fail because everybody says it's too hot. Nobody's gonna vote no because they like it, right? So, would kind of like to air on the mill rate being on the low side. And then if we have to send out a supplemental bill, if we had to, we could do that. And we would have enough money, Eric, right? To float us for thirty days, right, to get a supplemental bill out?
Well, I think that's probably a Sherri Holmes question more than an Eric Anderson question. But the one thing I would say is that you don't technically, there's a bunch of legal precedent that says if you over guessed the mill rate, you don't have to turn around and give them a refund in the same tax year. You could delay the refund. You would get a lot of people pissed off at you. And this it would save you a supplemental, which is not free. And that's the only reason why I'm saying that is because that does save you the cost of a supplemental appropriation but you should try to get it as close to what you think it's going to be as possible.
To piggyback on that my recollection which we all know is suspect so bear with me my recollection of the one time we did this is we did guess ever so slightly high it was really close but we were high and that was not returned it wasn't worth it It would have cost us more I think to return it to send out checks then you know you're sending out checks to people for you know a couple of bucks then it didn't make any sense and we ultimately just rolled with it. That was a very different was a different town it's supposed to be vast it's a different country but I'm just saying that's my recollection.
Idea, I mean if we set the mill rate based on the budget that we kind of put together today And if fails. If it fails,
we would have the opportunity to reset the mill rate before the first, We could change our minds, right? Right. We don't have to stick to the high if we're off, we have time to adjust. Right. If we don't get through town meeting.
Yeah. Diane, the reason why I think you should consider setting one now is because it gives the board of selectmen at their June 14 meeting, at their regular meeting to either ratify it or not. It would only go into effect July 1 anyway. So you do have time to change your mind, both boards do. And again, all you're doing is you are making a recommendation to the board of selectmen.
Right. Just want to provide a little bit of context in terms of the numbers. If we were to assume that the budget, let's say was flat for next year. Mean, right now we're looking at a slight budget increase of about $40,000 from last year. Net, remember we were slightly under. So now with the change, we're a little, I'm sorry, is it maybe not quite that much? Yeah it's about $40,000 it's 25 plus the $20.22 or whatever so. If we were to use as the basis of this recommended mill rate a flat expenditure budget which is kind of what we can be authorized to spend should we have a problem with budget. Difference is pretty small it's 36.53 mills versus 36.67 mill in the current recommended budget if we're to pass it without changes today. So we could go either way, in my opinion, we could we could use the budget we currently have in front of us. Or we could reduce it slightly you know by by that 40,000 or we could go lower if we really think it's going to be less but then again we would have supplemental appropriation.
Mark, can ask you just a quick question? Can you repeat for me the delta between the difference between those two Miller rates again?
It's the current budget is as it stands now with the recommended numbers is 36.67. If we were to stay flat with last year's expenditure level for this current fiscal year's expenditure level it would be 36.53 so it's 36.67 versus 36.53. Point 14 am I doing my math right? Yeah.
Okay and this gets to my question of just practicality if that's the difference like are we're going to send out a bunch of either supplemental requests or refunds for.
Well, it's a small amount we don't have to, you know, put it this way if it doesn't pass everybody's escrow account will be screwed up for the next year. I'm just telling you how it's gonna work. Know
Diane the banker yes. I believe me all my taxes run through my escrow too I get it. Oh I just thinking about sending out town wide either refund checks or supplemental appropriations for like this much money That's what's killing me. Now
I've got a question. So if we do set the mill rate just to and it winds up being a tad higher than whatever passes. Can we use whatever that small sum is to offset next year's budget, just to make everybody happy, instead of.
I think that's what we did last time Linda. I think we did too. Yeah, don't you remember that yeah that's that's my recollection to. Yes, can. You can.
I mean, because it's so boring. The difference between the two numbers is so small. I'm kind of okay going with the 36.67 mills for a recommendation. The board's decision
to put some dollars behind it. Again, using our example of the $200,000 house, the difference between those two mill rates is $20.14 Yeah. Or $200,000 house. Know, it's, yeah, because, yeah, people may not be happy, but it's not unreasonable.
Right. And think it's fair to say that we always take into account that next budget cycle, if that's what was to what would happen. And I think Linda is right. I think that's exactly what we did last time. We passed it forward to the next budget.
You know, if we end up reducing, if the budget that does go through ends up being significantly less you know it could end up being sort of $20 it could be $40 it could be $50 but you know it's not 200. Right. The
last question I have is how much flexibility we have so if the final budget is off by more than I think it will be like Mark just described a scenario where you know instead of $20 is $50 can we reverse course who makes the decision to send out is it board of select when board of finance that makes a decision to send out refund checks if that's the case. Okay. Select So we can recommend, but that's that. Don't have perfect. Okay. Fair enough.
There is no preference on mill rate, the higher or the lower or something different.
I don't know if splitting the difference makes any sense. I think don't think it does. It's a small difference. It's or the other and we roll with it.
See it? I'd like to make a motion. Yeah, like to make a motion that the Board of Finance recommend the mill rate in the event that the budget does not pass by the time it's, it's required to send out tax notices of 36.67 mills. I will second that motion.
That's based on the current budget as we've had stands before us right now.
All in favor. Okay, motion passes. No abstains, no nays, right?
To answer the question about how long do you think we can hold out on this, I really don't believe we can go beyond the thirty days of holding out because there are things that we need to pay on both sides, And we still have to process payroll and things like that. So I wouldn't want to, you know, it would be very nerve wracking to go beyond the thirty days. Okay.
Thanks, Sherry. You're welcome. All right. Anybody have anything they want to discuss? No? Good. Let's move it on. We're on to public speak. Do we want to go through public speak again and wrap this meeting up? Do it.
Okay, so we will kick off public speak with Michael Greenhouse.
Thank you all so much for everything that you guys are doing. Thank you. Next up, Kelly Allard.
I would also just like to thank you all for the time and consideration that you guys have put into this. I know it's not an easy task and you guys I think did a very good job tonight really kind of balancing and listening to everyone's perspectives as well thank you. Thank you Elizabeth Partridge. No comment. Thank you. Sheila Patrice. Thank you everyone.
Okay, Catherine Magaldi Lewis. Catherine with Aldi Lewis, would you like to participate? All right, we'll circle back around. Next up, Mary Hoehler.
Just wanted to thank everyone. That was really insightful and I appreciate what you all are doing for the town. Okay, Wendy Kup.
Hi, yes, I also agree. You so much for all of your hard work to get this through. Thanks. Thank you. Jed Larson.
I'd just like to say thanks for all the hard work as well. I think by adding the money into the town and the school, that can be viewed as a win win answer for all concerned. And I hope it passes. All right. Thank you. Shannon Loudon?
Thank you very much, Board of Finance. I will now work very diligently to both get the budget passed at the budget meeting next Tuesday and hopefully get it passed at referendum. I really think that you've seen a groundswell of a number of parents who have never participated in meetings before, maybe never voted on the referendum before. So I'm hoping that we all can work together to get it passed. I do want to make one comment. Had heard because I had to leave the Board of Selective meeting to go over to prepare for the budget meeting on Tuesday. I had heard and was concerned about the fact that there is not an option in the questions that are going to be posed at the referendum, the advisory questions about which, I think it's wonderful to give you information
should anything not happen with the budget as far as its passage that there was only a choice for voters to vote that the school budget and or the town budget was either too high or too low. And I've never been comfortable with only those two choices because I've thought for many years that both of them were just right, and that's not an option. But, someone who was at the meeting longer than I was on on Tuesday night said that that couldn't be an option. And, I think that would be great to have that as an option. So if that can be, I think that would be a wonderful thing for everybody to be able to vote on so that you actually have accurate information. Thank you.
So, Shannon, we are trying to address that. We've asked the vendor to go back and see whether they will make an exemption for us and allow us to do a high, low or okay. Not sure they're gonna allow us to do it. It just depends because they've got to do some reprogramming to do it, but we're gonna make that attempt. Thanks, Shannon. Dan Foran.
Hi, first of all, I'd like to thank the Board of Finance for everything that they've done. You know, I think this was the right choice on, you know, both of the issues. The meeting the other night did get very heated. I like to take this opportunity to apologize for my part in that. It was not directed towards the speakers and I'm sorry that it was perceived that way. It was more my frustration at how the meeting was being run. I know that's no fault of this board here. That also being said, you know, this has been very difficult, you know, in a lot of accusations and stuff like that going around towards me and the superintendent things of that sort. I think some of it is people are unsure of where to get their facts from. And I think that we've really done our best to try to get that out there. Valerie is very approachable, she said many times before, call her, she's meeting with the seniors, she answered questions at previous Board of Finance and Board of Osakman Odd
meetings. Have a Board of Education meeting next on Monday, please. Next Wednesday. Sorry, next Wednesday. And I think if people knew why we were doing certain things, it would be more, they might see why we're doing this. So again, I thank you all very much and I hope we can come together as a community and we can move on thank you thanks Dan. Jared Kremay?
I want to thank the board of finance for going through what they've gone through. It seems like it's been a very, very long process, a long tiring process. And I appreciate their time. Are volunteers just like I am. And I just want them to know how much we appreciate them and I'll do everything I can to support them. Thank you very much. Thanks Jerry. Scott Persson. Thanks Amanda but I'm all set. Thanks for being here. Liz Lokiak.
I'm I'm good. Thanks, guys. Thanks for the Board of Finance and your hard work. I know you've you're between a rock and a rock. Thank you. Sarah Warner.
I just want to say thank the Board of Finance for working through this and I believe that I'm very hopeful that the changes you have made tonight able to be passed. So thank you. Thank you. Melissa Zellquist.
I just want to thank the Board of Finance for their time for listening to what everybody had to say. It was great to hear the discussions that everybody had tonight and I just want to thank everybody. Thanks. Thank you. Chris Bernard.
Yep, just same thing. Thanks to the board of finance and as a board of education member, we certainly want to be as transparent as possible. So we realize not everybody can hang with us till our late meetings, but you can always, as Dan said and Jerry said, reach out to Valerie and ask questions or reach out to Jerry or myself as the chairs for communications. And I believe that is an acceptable method as well to ask any questions and we'll make sure that people get answers. Thank you. Brian Briggs.
Yeah, I just want to say thank you to to the Board of Finance. I know it's a difficult job. You guys are doing a great job and I like the changes that you made. I will definitely vote yes on the referendum and the budget. I also want to say that it sounds great that there's money available for the senior center. That's really good news. I know the town's been fighting for that for a long time and trying to get that to happen. So yeah, that's great too. So that's a great meeting. Thank you everybody and I hope you everybody has a great night. Thank you, Joanne Hebert.
Yes, thank you. I just want to say that I can understand that the Board of Finance listened to what everybody was saying and the people have spoken and they've made their changes. One thing that hasn't been brought up and just as a finance person, I wanna just say that the $200,000 house that we're all talking about this year, just in the spirit of being transparent, is probably going to be valued at about 350,000 next year. I don't want to be a doubter on this. Just, the taxes are going to go up significant. We're in the middle of a revaluation. So this year is great. But just, you know, I want everybody to be aware of that. Listen, if it passes, it passes, the people have spoken. But that $200,000 house is gonna be worth a heck of a lot more next year. So it's not like $20 or $30 in taxes. It's going to be hundreds. You.
Amanda, there's a couple of people commented on that. And I think just kind of to clarify, we don't really know how this is going to roll out. I know this isn't a Q and A session, but think it's kind of important to clarify. The revaluations go up significantly what's going to happen the total amount to be raised by taxation isn't going to change so what happens is we calculate the mill rate the mill rate would actually drop correspondingly. So just because the Val house valuations are going up doesn't mean your taxes are automatically going to go up. In theory, if we can keep a flat budget, they should be flat. So it's it but the mill rate will have to change to reflect that and we'll have to work on that so it's you know it's it's it's it's a confusing thing I know I just wanted to point that out I thought might be helpful for people it's come up a few times I've had people ask me about it, so I think it's worth mentioning.
Totally thank you for that. Mercy Miner. Hey. No comment. Thank you. Thank you. Kelly Hagerty.
Thank you, Amanda. Thank you to the Board of Finance for all of your hard work. I do think this budget is representative of the needs of all the constituents in town and we appreciate your time. So thank you. Thanks, Kelly. Kevin Regan. Thank you to everyone. I have no further comments. Thanks for being here. Diane Grineer.
Yes, I'd like to add my thanks also to the Board of Finance. It's a tough job, and you folks did a good job. I did have a question. I know this is not a Q and A, and I'm sure I'm not the first one to think of this. Is there any reason why we don't put those advisory questions on the ballot for the town meeting? So if it fails, it gives you some guidance.
Would the board like to respond? Yeah, you know, actually it might be from the board, the board of select when to respond but I'm not sure that that's permitted I think that the only thing that can really be done at the town meeting for the charter is to is to discuss the town budget and I know this related. Eric or even. Brian I don't know if you have any comments on that.
Well, do I think you may be right to charter may not include that. I know I'm pretty sure there's a statute that covers it for referendums. And I think the statute and I told Eric in a private message that I was going to check it out. I think the statute does limit the questions to too high or too low in terms of budgets but I may be wrong but I want to check that out. That's a good question that was asked. But I will get an answer for that to Eric.
So as far as asking those questions at the budget meeting, that was debated a while back by the Board of Finance and also by the Board of Selective. And part of it is because you get, you typically get a different result at budget meeting than you get from referendum. They both thought it was more fair to ask that at referendum with a bigger audience than asking that at a budget meeting. And in truth, it should have been on the initial referendum questions. That was an oversight on the town's part, on the board of selectman's part. No question. All right thank you Diane anything else? Good question. I'm all done. Thank you.
Thank you. Leanne Hutchinson. Go ahead Leanne. Okay, we'll move on to Michelle Lawrence.
Hey, I just want to speak thank to everyone. Also, I don't know if anyone knows this, but the USDA does have a grant out for a rural community center of populations of 20,000 or less. I just wanted to put that information out there. I didn't know if it was something that we looked into, but thank you for all your hard work, and I think we're moving forward as a community in a pretty good direction. Thanks.
Thank you. All right, let's double check to make sure we have everyone. Okay, believe we're all set, I just want to remind all the attendees if they would like to submit public speak comments to me to be included in the Mitts. Please feel free to email them to me at adminassistantandoverct dot org
by the end of this evening or tomorrow morning. Thank you. Amanda, this is Dennis. I just wanted to say one thing. I wanted to for thank the great summary she gave in about ten seconds of a two page legal opinion I wrote. That was fantastic and was a real pleasure for me as a resident of the town of Wyndham and a member of the town council in town of Wyndham to sit in to be involved in a meeting where everybody seems to feel good about everything. So that's great. Thank you very much and thank you Eric for inviting me. Thank you. Thanks for joining us, Dennis. Thanks, Dennis.
Okay, here we are. I just wanna say from my personal perspective, thank you to all of my board of finance compadres. We may disagree on everything, but together we make a fantastic team and everybody's opinion is important and we're good with each other. We listen to each other. We may not always agree with each other, but that's okay. So I just wanna say thank you for all the hard work. It's been a long road. Let's hope it ends here and goes to referendum and we're not visiting again in July. Thank you, Diane.
Thank you, Diane. Yeah. Thanks, Diane. We're at that end of the adjournment. Does anybody wanna make a motion to adjourn? I'll make the motion to adjourn. Second. Second. Second. Mark seconds. All in favor? Aye. Aye. See you all on Tuesday. Of course. Nice. Let's do it. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.