Meeting transcript
IWWC- Regular Meeting
July 7, 2026 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Okay, I've called to order the public hearing agenda on Tuesday, July 7 at 07:02PM. Roll call by. Jen Massey. And Megan Lyle is on Zoom. Third order agenda, IWWC application number 20, replacement of bridge number 001007 Lake Road over Cheney Brook.
Yeah. And so I'll just open it a little and then turn it over to I presume you're the consultant representing. So this is for a bridge replacement over Katie Brook on Lake Road. Obviously, there's serious deterioration of the existing bridge. So it's gonna be cast in that location to my understanding from the reading. He'll describe it more, so I'll turn it over to the applicant, well representative of the applicant, who's the applicant is now.
Good evening. My name is Howard Frommer. I'm with Nathan Jacobs and Associates, an engineer there at the firm. We are the town's consulting town engineer. So this is a town project. Replacement of grid 1,007, like we were in which we grew up.
I've got a color drawing here, which is one of the same drawing that's in the packet that we submitted to you,
just colors so that you can see it a little bit better. So
the location of the project is at the South End of Andover Lake. On this drawing Lake Road is running east west, left to right from the drawing sheet and the Chaney Brook runs south to north. The project is located immediately chasing to the intersection of the Solar Road and Lake Road. The existing culvert consists of a a steel bolted corrugated metal pipe arch with cast in place concrete upstream wing walls and paraclet wall and downstream concrete masonry unit, wing walls and paraclet wall. Roadside barriers don't comply with current design standards, safety standards. There's also a perched what we call a perched outlet. And I'll show you some photographs of that in a moment that prohibits the passage of aquatic organisms to the color.
So these are just some photos that I brought along. Here's an image of that perched outlet. You get a sense of the step there for fish to pass through. These photos right here sort of joined. This is a elevation view of the outlet of the culvert and I'm not sure from your perspective, but there's considerable 100 section loss of many of the flanges and webs of the concrete masonry units on the downstream side. So it's proposed to replace the existing fault with a precast reinforced concrete three sided frame set on cast in place reinforced concrete footings pinned to rock with cast in place reinforced concrete, wind walls and bridge rail curve and moment slabs. From your perspective, always the important thing people want to know is the road getting wider? No, it's the same 30 foot road with curve to curve or maintaining that. Is the road elevation increasing? No, it's the same elevation. So the bridge will be in the same location, same elevation. Really the only thing that's happening here is the watery area is getting larger. During construction, we will be closing Lake Road, but we have to obviously maintain access to the solar road given that it's dead end Road. So there are drawings in the set that depict that. That means the protection of traffic plan. From an erosion control standpoint, I will say that we'll be maintaining the flow by passing a temporary sleek pipe through the existing pipe.
It's not shown in this drawing, but with super sack sandbag type coffer dams to enable the contractor to start the project in the dry. There's also construction entrances on Lake Road. Although I will say that we're looking at getting rid of both of these, the one on the West Side on Lake Road and the one that does sort of make a lot of sense, particularly people that drive through. We also have erosion sub control around the three proposed catch basin inlets. There's hay bales, sedimentation fence at the toe of proposed slopes. There's green areas erosion control blanket. The slopes will be vegetated. There are 34 proposed plants to go on the slopes. The stream bottom will be reestablished with natural stream bottom material and will have riprap at the four corners of the bridge that we call it sort of in front of the wing walls, but not in the channel. The right period, excuse me, the step, the perch step will be removed with the proposed structures. So now the ability of aquatic organisms to pass through the culvert can occur. We're also proposing two riparian shelves. I'll show you an image of that on both sides of
the watercourse through the barrel. Here's a very large depiction of that. So there's sort of shells on the left and right side of this rectangular opening for terrestrial critters to pass through to try and reduce any mortality issues if that is indeed the case out there with them going up over the road. From a permitting standpoint, we are obviously here seeking approval from this commission. The town has decided that planning and zoning approval is not necessary. Since I met with this commission, I think it was May, we did receive the US Army Corps of Engineers permit. So that's in hand. Also, we received the DEEP four zero one more quality certification permit. Construction's anticipated for a five month period starting in June 2027. So we would walk in probably at the end of this year or very beginning of next year and construction would occur. So June, July, August, September, October. It's a grant funded project, 50% grant on the total project costs through the DOT State Local Bridge Program. So again, it's a state funded project. And I believe that's majority of what I wanted to share. Just check here, see if there's anything else.
That's about it. Can I entertain any questions at this point? Is that what you'd like me to do?
Does anyone from the commission have any questions at this point? I have a question.
I live at 218 right there. The road that's up there. Those are trees, I think. On the screen. On the screen. Off the screen. Yes. Her That's my right there. Yeah. So you live right here? Right there. Yeah. Yep. And those are my trees on the right on the street. And
those just stay there? Yeah. So actually what you're looking there, those one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten new trees, those are actually proposed. Those are proposed.
What does that mean? So that means we recognize that you have some there and we need to disturb those. We'd like to move those back a little bit. So either we can move what you have or we could plant anew. Right now we're calling for them to be replanted.
I'm not happy about that. I've had them for three years. A lot of, you know, money, time, effort. They're beautiful. And feel if you take them up and try to replant them, they won't make it. Is there any way you can just leave them there?
I you know, the ones to the right, maybe half of the ones to the right, you know, we we could probably leave that there and reduce the shoulder width a little bit. But as we get to the ones to the west, you see how they're sort of in green? There's not a lot I can do to to avoid disturbing those few. I could I could do something for the ones on the east side, the east of that. Towards my driveway. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Exactly.
So you could leave how many from my driveway over?
Well, we don't show the the individual trees here on the existing plan, so I have to go check that. I don't know how many. Alright.
How are you proposed to remove the tree stains by installation or by tree stains? Depends on size of tree. What
kind of trees are they? They're they're like those gentle giant or, you know I have phabibites that does They're huge. Yeah. Oh, okay. They're huge already. Yeah. Even after three years. So it's the screening. It's a. Right. So basically, if you were to remove them temporarily, you would put them back almost exactly where she has them now. So I think her biggest concern is that if you move them or disturb them, they're going to die. And if that happens, will they be replaced with the exact same plant?
Yeah, so, you know, there's a guarantee period, a statutory one year guarantee period on the contractors work. So certainly, and particularly plants, there's always a certain percentage that die every year. There's no question about Even the thirty four of them talking about here, some percentage will die. The contractor will be required to replace them. And we hold them back. Know, we hold us usually a significant sum to entice it to come back. So, the several plans that you have on the East Side, I could leave some by by reducing the shoulder here. I I think I'm okay with that but as we get further out here, I need the shoulder width which is driving the slope, which is causing the disturbance to the plant. So I don't know how many because these are proposed,
but some could be left. I'd have to look at that carefully.
Well, the so the nursery then planted those for me. I have bill of sale and what they're worth. So I would like to be reimbursed for those trees. Well, it sounds like it would replace, it would replace with the same type, height, how tall are they? I would say right now they're probably they look like they're 10 to 12 feet tall. Yeah. So maybe three or four inch diameter. Bigger. Huge. Yeah. Yeah. I I I would have to consult with
probably our source I wish I knew that this was gonna happen. Yeah. Because I never would have planted them.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how long would you plant them? Three years. Three. Okay. I think our goal would be, let's see if we can save some not to serve them and the others that have to be disturbed, I guess I would consult the person that we deal with our soil scientists who also deals with our plants. He's a professional on that end, not myself, and get his recommendation. I get him out to take a look at them and tell us what he thinks the best thing is to do. So you have to maybe put them somewhere,
still get fresh water and not disturb their breath so much that if you were to replant them, she just wants to try to conserve their privacy as they grow. Well,
I'm imagining that we could move them once and move them from the existing position to the proposed position. So I wouldn't suggest we move and set them off somewhere. Are you building up on that slope? Yeah, yes we are, but There's no reason why the contract couldn't, you know, independently build up this slope right here just for the sole purpose of moving plants.
And, the bottom area is per I remember when I was a teenager, we used to take the volumes and swing and jump in the water. The bottom area, are you disturbing any of those trees? Do any of them have to be removed? Like the bottom fly area. That is not the easiest of the property.
So there is a demolition in And the we're showing sort of a clearing limit here. We've identified some of the larger trees and to be disturbed or removed actually is what the circle with X is. So specifically where you're talking about, you have to get real specific with me for me to answer your question, but generally speaking, this limit
is at the toe of the proposed hole. So, here's the water that comes in. Like right here, it's really flat. Yeah, no, we're not out there. So, you're not going be out there. You're just basically staying like right here. Because I know some of these trees are dead. Okay. Yeah. I drive a scuba, so I see them all the time. So Okay. That's why I was wondering. And my other question is is I own that property up to the Brook. So who ever asked me,
you know, about all this? Right. So the town is responsible for contacting the property owner and discussing easements. I apologize for not being able to tell you what the status of that is if I do not know.
It sounds to me like they haven't had it. I will look into it for you. Let me get your name and your email. I'm new to the position, but I will definitely look into where that process is at. Yeah. Thank you.
So I live across from you. I'm at 204, so I'm on the left side of that edger over here. And there is a pin that shows the edge of my property line, probably about 15 feet from the bridge because I have a large stone. I just don't know how far you're gonna end up disturbing the area to the left and whether I can retain that stone. I I lined that whole corner with scallions before. Wow. Yeah. Parking area. Now it's a walk through the town, but
find that. When you when you get as close to the drawings as I am, you can see that there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine nine stones adjacent to the proposed work. Yep. And there's actually guardrail going to be there now as proposed. So that would certainly prevent anybody from pulling off there. And then after the guardrail, have your existing stones would remain two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, another nine continuing out the road that's Well, that guardrail,
I don't necessarily walk through it, but other people kinda cut that corner through, you know, my property there. That guardrail kinda will allow that egress.
It's a 33 inches high rail. I guess it depends how agile you are. I mean, most most people probably don't. Yeah. A younger person, would expect my I'm not sure. Yeah. Who do see walking across there? I'm just asking because in the past when we've had a storm from those retrieving and knocked down, somebody
posted and said, is anybody gonna clear that? I'm like, well, that's my property. I I don't walk there. Like, where but somebody did it. Somebody crossed the street.
Mean, we we could certainly I I don't know if it would make any sense to leave the stones behind the guide rail. I
assume we would Not really. Remove the ones that fall behind the guide rail. Yeah. But I was concerned about people who they walk that through that corner because of the traffic issue and shaved. Right. It's just a cute little path. If you walk in the dog, you walk into the lake. I've seen it. It's just, It's a cute cat.
Make a little, leave it open. Another question I have is, when you, I know there's like a step of water that you were talking about earlier, is that's going to completely drop? And if it does, will it affect the flow of water coming down the Zoho?
We have a hydraulic profile in Zoho, again, hard for you to see from where you are, but from where I am, I can clearly see the existing grade to the barrel, the drops, and then it undulates on its way down to Andover Lake. So we're sort of taking an average of that. And that's how we're able to get rid of that drop and and this has been approved by DP fishers.
Is that for fish to go try to go up?
Or Parkway? I'm not. I know there's crayfish there. Yeah, I'm not a fisheries biologist but I guess there there are there are species that definitely swim upstream. So. Okay. And DP fishers would like to see them get. I know the sacrificial stuff right there.
Like they can't get any higher. So it'd be interesting to see if they can make it up higher after all these years. Yep. That's definitely one of the objectives. Okay. And it's five months? We're anticipating five months.
Because I, like I said, I, in charge of the school buses, so I can reroute temporarily for parents so that they understand that the kids that's why another reason, I live just up the street. My house is not that close, but my concern was morning was closing, Glad was closing in the summer, it then gives parents more time that they don't have to worry about the kids on a bus.
Yeah. What what a lot of our kids, what clients like to do is we we do this sort of makes sense, Try and time things so that the actual physical work, you know, would start after school was out. I'm not you you must know the date. We usually add options about the second week of June. It it all depends on the snow days. Correct. So, so we would all take our best guess at that. And, and then we'd obviously be impacting the fall a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. Okay.
I didn't know it was eroding that much. Yeah. This, the pictures are impressive. They are. When you show the other side, we can see the hole.
That was taken, I think a couple of years ago. I haven't been down back there since. Okay.
Interesting. Thank you. And then a public comment. I've For the record, Angler from the conservation commission. Just happy to hear that the purchase going on. That's great. That's a great neurological side of it. Just a couple of questions. The riprap I heard you say the riprap is just on the exterior. Right? Those shelves, it's not gonna be on the top of the shelves of the interior cut or lower? Correct. No. The riprap is outside
of the bridge on the slope, not in the channel. Right. So on the slope in front of the windlass. And those those shelves mentioned on the sides. Mhmm.
What's the width of those? Two feet. Two feet. And that's natural material or bare soil. That's
that's the area that's not there. That's going to be what they call the natural stream body material.
Sir, any other public comment from anyone on the Zoom?
I have a question. Hi, I'm Linda Derick. I'm the president of Alma, Andover Lake Management Association, and there's several of us here from that board. And two questions. One, I'm wondering when we by the way, the Board of the First Selectmen did send us as an abutter the blueprints of the drawing several months ago so that we could begin to inform ourselves and make sure that we could attend this meeting. So we did get that. I don't know that every abutter did, but I know he was working on that. And so the easement because we have to approve, we each all be a butters, right, have to approve the easement? There are proposed easements in the project. Yes.
So one of our questions was, are those easements temporary during the course of the construction project or are they permanent?
Both. Biggest ones are temporary and then there are some smaller permanent ones. So for instance, on the upstream side, this large area here is temporary. And there's a little triangular area right at the corner here that's permanent because even today, part of the existing road does not fall in the right away. It falls on private property and this is the time to fix that. On the downstream side, there's a large temporary easement and a small permanent easement here where the guy real end anchor comes out of the right away because the right away is extremely narrow just off the gutter, obviously not the curb. And then over on this, this corner here that sort of Southwest quadrant, there's sort of a large temporary easement and a permanent easement right in the corner. So we have three small permanent easements and three large temporary easements. And the temporary easements expire, as you probably know, once the construction is over. And
the second question I have is sort of a selfish one, is a dog walker around the lake. So you mentioned that access to Balsola will have to be maintained throughout. Will that include a pedestrian passageway through the construction site during these five months?
Yeah, no construction. Excuse me, a temporary passageway through the construction site. From our perspective is a bad idea to recommend to the town, purely from a safety standpoint. The quick answer is no. There's no plans for people to walk or bike through the construction. The road will be closed by closed, it's close to everybody.
Just to clarify, so if you were coming out of the solar and taking a left, that's not gonna be possible as a pedestrian. If you're coming up Yeah. Yeah. You're going from the upstream upstream side of the stream.
Basically coming yeah. No. No. You're correct. If you come out of Pasola and take and take a left, that will be possible. However, you're actually gonna be on a temporary road that's sort of outside this gray area on the plan. So it's just it's off in this on somebody's property is what it is a temporary access so that you could walk in there, but you couldn't walk over where the culvert is. That would be total in the ground. Right, which currently is Long Hill. John?
Hi, I have a question. I'm Jim Cole, I'm on the Lake Of Analma. Could you clarify the impact during construction and long term of the amount of sediment load coming down Cheney Brook into the lake?
The work, the majority of the work will be done within Cofferdam, so the majority of the work, I've got a print jacket, And that work is done to within a coffee dam to enable the work in the dry. So this this area here will be dry. The workflow will go through temporary sleeve pipes and continue on. So, you know, sedimentation from that activity should be absolutely minimal. I mean, I think there's no question when it does come time to replace the natural stream bottom material. Contractors will typically use smaller sandbags or sometimes wait for a really low flow, which is why we want to do the construction in the June to October timeframe. There's no question that there's a little bit of sediment load from that. Other than that, the riprap is going to be open and not chinked. So any sediment coming down the bank towards the stream would get trapped in that riprap. I mean, that's that's I guess the quick answer. And then of course there will be
hay bales and sedimentation fence around the toes of other slopes to help prevent any sedimentation from escaping.
And by eliminating that sharp drop off that currently exists long term, will that affect the amount of sediment being deposited in the lake?
I wouldn't expect it to. I would expect that in short order, mother nature is going to settle that natural stream bottom material down. We typically for financial stream bottom material, DEP will approve it during the construction. And typically I find that it's something that doesn't have a lot of certainly clay or silt in it super fine particles. Know, it's sort of gravelly with, you know, some some finer material. So that helps to eliminate the sedimentation long term. Are there any other questions from anyone on Zoom? Any other questions?
Yeah, want to ask a question. It may sound silly, but the size of the riprap. The reason I ask is because they have tried the rip rap years ago left and right. And the kids are would spend the afternoon throwing those rocks in the street. Now I've seen something similar in West Hartford Reservoir System. What they did with their rear graphs, covered it with fine lighter mesh. So somebody could've get some data there. So just an observation. They didn't. Yeah. That's interesting. I've had this in that before.
So that's a good idea if it's a vandalism issue. There was talk initially with this commission about changing the riprap solid, but for good reason, we all decided to leave it open graded more for sediment protection. The size of the riprap is probably eighteen, twelve inches, 10 inches stone. Might be some smaller ones in there and maybe some bigger ones, but generally, you know, in the foot and a half to the 12 inches range. Any Any other questions? Okay.
All right. So hearing none, I make a motion to close the public hearing. I'll second. All in favor? Aye. Aye.
Just make sure she gets your name and Alright. Okay. You guys staying at the regular meeting as well?
That is available on the town of Saifid. Oh, it is? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. On the wetlands page. My name is asked before.
Alright. Yeah. Thank you for that. Then I don't know who will contact me about the trees. It it so it's possible the commission can make five monthly systems in the neighborhood and I choose to continue to look when you decide later. So I can't tell you something. We decide if they wait. Don't know. Treewoods. Yeah. But the commission's. Alright. Well, I'll just wait for somebody to, get ahold of me then. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Alright. So
I will stop for the inland wetlands meetings at 07:34 on 07/07/2026. Roll call. Aye. Jen Mashi. Megan Lawley. Okay. Any district changes or agenda?
I'm just seeing a motion that we move item number eight to, I guess, become item number four. Basically to be the next order of business.
Sure. Do we need a motion for that? I think so, right? Yeah, I did motion. Oh, okay. I'll second the motion. All in favor? Aye. Okay. So next up would be enforcement actions. Welcome Savannah Kitchen. Hi,
everyone. Good to be here. No enforcement has happened yet on my watch. Yeah. No real updates as of today. But I'm happy to hear you.
Welcome. Yeah. It made sense to actually say hello to you. Yeah. Good to meet you too.
Yeah. Glad to finally have an agent. Now we can, you know, that's how we were before. Make things run more slowly. Yeah. Alright. So approval of last meeting's minutes. Did anybody see anything you want to change? I did not. Maybe. Everything went complete? No, no, I was gonna make a motion to approve.
Okay. I'll second the motion to approve last meeting minutes. All in favor? Aye. Aye. So public comment. I'm not sure how to go about public comment. So that closed already. So this is for any Well, that was, yeah, go ahead. Okay. Okay. Any comments? Nope. Okay. Business. So permit number 26Dash2 replacement on Bridge Number 001007, Lake Road over to you.
If I may start us off, I had a couple thoughts on things that we could ask for from the applicant or the representative of the applicant. I think it might nice be nice to see what's called IPAC results. So it's fish and wildlife's review of the poll bird for endangered bat species. There have been a lot of new species listed. That's something that the commission could ask for. Just see that there's a no effect there. I presume they've done it, but you guys have adopted it to say that. I think the condition I I drafted some conditions at that time, special conditions for it. I think making sure that dewatering is in the ungodly area would be a nice condition to add so that we provide as much space as possible before it comes back into the water. And then I I didn't see the list of plants. He mentioned there's 34 proposed plants. You know, I think we can make a condition that they're wetland or plants that would do well in wetland because it seems like most of the areas are wet areas that are being. To see the- Do we know if they're in the listing? Excuse me, can we ask you a question? You can. Do you have a plant list? Excuse me? Do you have a plant list to propose the planting list for the project? Yes.
On the drawing screen, read it to you. I didn't see it in the application materials, but maybe I missed it. That's okay. You don't have to read it to me just as long as we have it. So I, I really, it's more of making sure that they're, you know, wetland plant, but it'll do black.
Yeah, there's a planting legend at the bottom of sheet the seven that has the-
We've missed this. Okay, sheet seven. Sheet seven. Thank you very much. Can I ask you one more question while I'm here? I'm gonna come now. It'll be quick, I guess. Is there any wetland area that would be removed entirely and completely and not replaced?
So given a garden and a clean pad, see permanent wet and clean pad. Is it there is seven eight nine not replace. So yes. Yes is the quick answer. Okay. Yes. That would be permanent weapon impact shown on sheet 24. Okay.
And we have a percentage value for that on the plan? There's two fifty three square feet of 3,420 So. And
the location is shown on sheet 24. Location is shown on sheet 24. Thank you.
Savannah, the only thing I'll note with making a condition that the plants have to be wetlands is that could create a problem for, you know, like the discussion of the plants along the driveway that the, the budding landowner was discussing. So I think we just want to make sure it won't restrict upland plants that might not necessarily be native species.
That's a good point. Yeah. Okay. Noted. And I can make it clear. Where are the any plants that are put in the wetland are wetland native species?
Currently they have isosaccharum, monstrous sugar maple, and Monarchic Candensis, which is a Shadwell, Cornus briscomosa and Cornus flora, which are both dogwoods. Part of them are not all wet and sweet tooth. Not like any sort of vet to be chief. So this is not seven, is it? Either.
So he's showing okay. So the numbers correspond. He is showing them outside of the wetland, but there are proposed removals, it looks like, within the wetland.
Yes. It looks like they're all gonna be on that slope.
Yeah. And that's the planking plank at least for the slopes. Yeah. But I think what we wanna see is is what sort of the restoration once we put a lot of that. Sure. Okay. There's a soils burning there too.
And do we need more information on that woman's property? Yeah. I I'll check into what's going on with the easement thing there. I'm not I'm not sure who would be in charge of speaking to her about these And why she didn't get Yeah. Notification where some of the other people did. Yeah. That was strange. I I definitely As far as I know the town reached out to
everybody because we spoke to early on, I agree, who was spoken to about that. Oh, yeah. But the town as far as I know about the town reaching out to all of them. Especially
if they're affecting the project. You should have got something. Will absolutely answer that. Don't know if that's possible.
I think we just need to be careful about staying within the wetlands lane. So they should have received, you know, a notification of the application as a Butters, but the easements and stuff like that that would come after approval of the application, if that's what we choose to do, isn't really within our scope. That that's for the town to deal with. For sure. That makes sense.
If some of those easements don't get approved, they might have to come back to us, you know, this would be, if we approve the permit as, as you know, currently presented, and then they went to pursue those easements and weren't granted them and had to change the project design, then they might have to come back to wetlands and make sure we're still willing to issue the permit under kind of whatever the design changes are, but it's not a wetlands role to manage the easements. Yeah, that'd be on the town. As
a town agent though, since she brought it up here. Sure. I'll send her to the right person, which I presume would be the town manager. I know it was a different town manager that applied for Yeah. Was under Eric before Eric Anderson.
Right? Isn't that how he started? I think that was it. Yeah. Yeah. Think that's right. Yeah.
Okay. So we need a motion for that, right? For all those things? Yeah.
So you can motion to include the specifics of what we just talked about in the special conditions of of the permit approval. If you're looking to approve it tonight, you can also. This is under old business. It has been opened. We just did a public hearing, which I
think we're very close to the decision deadline. Yeah. Talking about that. The time allowed. Yeah. So I would consider making a decision. You can always ask representative or the applicant for an extension and they can allow you to. Sure.
Okay, so I make motion to ask for the, looking for the IPEC results, to verify the Dewatering Upland area and to make a proposal to web specific plans that we may wanna see. Yeah, I mentioned.
Okay, okay, like a second. I'll start with him. Okay,
all in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. All in favor pass.
Do we need a motion to request an exception from the applicant?
If you're not prepared to make a decision, yeah, then that's what you do. Yeah, it sounds like if we're waiting on that information. You could just request that that information be received prior to initiation of work. That could be one of your conditions. Or if you want to see it beforehand,
absolutely then you can request an extent. That's kind of, I was thinking we can approve the permit and then, yeah, obviously we don't wanna see any construction before we get some of these things back. Are you in favor of that, Megan? Since we're not starting for another year.
Yeah. As long as there's nothing that there's no information gaps that those documents that we just talked about represent. We don't wanna make a decision if we don't feel that we have all the information we need to make that decision. But if we feel comfortable making a decision in the absence of that list, that's fine.
Maybe we can just ask real quick if we can get some clarification on the iPad. We
were wondering if you have the IPAC results. I do. Okay. Now if I have I have a consistency letter and non species letter with me. Oh, you do. Basically the Northern Long Eared bats endangered. So that was noted And the tri color bat, which is like a candidate. Then I'm probably using the wrong term. And then there's monarch. That was submitted to the core. Yeah. The core digested that information and that resulted in a permit being issued.
Okay, so the iPad results said that there could be no other long events. I
can tell you and I'm sure some other people in the room know too. As soon as you do anything around here generally, that's the northern longing bad, dry color bad. I guess it's sort of my perspective, sort of boils down to sometimes, what's the amount of chew removal you're doing and the whole host of other things that could make that become a problem. But I've found that it seems that most time dealing with the core, they seem to understand that certainly if we remove the trees in the wintertime when the bats are hibernating somewhere, that's one way to deal with it. And some core people seem to think that, there's not a lot of, so few trees in the sea of trees so they don't It's not so much the trees that I've seen a concern as the actual cohort itself is very large, expansive. Were any surveys for Guano done?
So that rule changed. March 9 in Connecticut, I believe the only place you have to worry about bats living in Culverts is in Fairfield County, unless the culvert is over 200 feet long. We actually ordered a bunch of bat surveys at the cost of like $3 for all these municipalities and started doing that. As soon as they had made the decision to require that, show suddenly decided, oh, you don't have to do that anymore because the study was done to that really it's not that much of an issue. So no, we did not complete such a miss because as of March, we didn't need to do it anymore. That was as of March this year. Also in Connecticut infrastructure, believe that's a positive suspicion too, but this is not a wooden structure. Yeah. Or Mesa.
Okay, so those would be the conditions in which you need to Where you might find that's in some crevice, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right, thank you. That's really helpful. Did you wanna ask any questions?
Yeah. Dewatering in the upward area. Where did your dewatering take place there now? Okay. You want me to set this back up? Sure.
Sorry, I know you just took it all down. No, no, no, It's
my mistake. I just assumed after the public hearings closed, that that's it for me. That's
okay. Yeah, I just had a few more questions. That's fine.
Uh-oh. No, actually, is not a bad thing. The first time in forty two years, well, uh-oh, maybe you might be right. This is actually, this thing actually collapsed on me at a meeting with 100 people in the audience. Oh, thanks. Yay. I won't be able put that up chair. Or the table Or the table tray?
Maybe. I don't put that on there. Wonky leg. Maybe? It might work. It looks that. Work.
No. It's not. That one's the wrong side. It's the wrong side.
Okay, well, I will open this up. So, the watering basin is this little square over here. So it's on the on the downstream side. Here's the channel. It's outside of the wetland, so it's upland of the wetland line and an area that's relatively flat. Actually, very flat. That's what you want to see right there.
And there's no other, so all dewatering will be through that That's what we're proposing.
Sometimes, you know, as a designer of record, our responsibility is to show something that will work for dewatering. I'll be the first to tell you that sometimes contractors submit their own plan. Yeah. Some commissions I find make a condition of approval that they want to see the contractors submitted the watering and handling plan, which I think is a great idea because I'm sitting here saying to you, this is what we're proposing. But you don't know. It's a means and methods thing. Yeah. So he might propose something different.
I think at very minimum, you could add a condition that it must be in the upland area. Sure. Just to ensure that it's a resource area. Is it, proposed like hay bales or straw bales?
Like, one of those squid I think it's an ORC bed. Yeah. I believe we're using the let me name it. The dirt bags have a large e bag. Yeah. Just look at the detail here. See if we have. Just in the hollow. Yeah, so that's the detail of the bag with the haybows around it and it's set on a crushed stone bed. Got it, of course, thank you.
And then did we wanna make a proposal with what specific plans now or did we wanna come up with a list on just, we wanna see that.
Yeah, I guess so we saw the plant list on sheet seven, which looks like mostly on the trees for the full slopes that are being put in, But I presume there's gonna be some wetland areas restored too. Is that correct? Maybe those who are impacted. So,
really, the majority of what's happening is we're, It's probably hard for you to see all of this proposed sort of burying the existing underneath here, but that's the existing barrel. Here's the proposed, the existing water courses all the way over here where the red is, and that's becoming a slope. There is some existing wetland here, which is becoming riprap. It's not in the channel. It's on the on the slope. So this is actually all riprap. So that's the two fifty square feet. Well, that's one of them. There's there's four little areas like that. One here, one here, a sliver over here and a sliver over here where there's a little bit of wetland outside of the channel, but it's becoming riprap. So to answer your question, are we restoring any wetland areas?
It
seems like no, because any place where we're disturbing the wetland, it's being disturbed because it's becoming something else. But we should get credit for the fact that this 14 foot barrel is becoming 28 feet wide, so we should get some credit for the water factor. We're creating a water course. Just my own personal opinion. No, no.
And we talked seriously about the habitat improvement, the in stream habitat improvement by removing the perch culvert? I'm sorry, didn't hear the first part of that. Oh, that we had talked about, I think at the last time we met about the in stream habitat improvements that replacing the perch culvert would create. I think someone earlier during the public hearing had talked about like the suckers not being able to go upstream right now and things like that. Yes, we talked about that. Is there a question?
Yeah. No, no question. Just pointing out that is despite there are losses that there's there's, you know, maybe not an area, but value gains, I think, in the in the project design.
Repositive that way. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it might be impacted. Okay, did you guys wanna make a motion tonight, depending on certain things, in that condition that we see a new watering plant from contractors?
I think we should just hope we won't have, we won't run out of time. Yeah, are you okay with that Megan?
Yeah, I think we just have to think about how you make the motion. They just need to submit that material before work commences. We can't, like, rescind the approval
if they don't submit something. The IPAC information here? I do. Yeah. So we can get a copy of that. You won't know the contractor specs until there's actually a contractor chosen. Right. Which will be a while.
I mean, if we're lucky, if we bid early enough, we plan to start construction in June and we get a good contractor, They'll give us all their shop drawings during those months prior to June before they actually start the physical And then we'll have that dewatering plan that we could share with you. And it wouldn't hold up the contractor per se. As long as it didn't take too long to come through this commission. I suppose if he, you know, sit there at all the shop drawings once he started the physical work, well then there's that time crunch. Everybody's, you know, so eager to process things quickly because he needs it. You know, he's not being responsible giving it to us early enough. I just don't know which way it'll go until we know. Yeah.
I think having the condition that the dewatering plant needs to be provided and that it will be in another area substantial. And that the wetland plants have to be approved by you before they're in construction. Any planting should be approved by the wetlands agent. And then you can also, I mean, if you wanna go ahead and say like any straw or hay bales, should be free of invasives. So we can move it.
Savannah, in the future, I know we're kind of under a time crunch with this application. It's unusual, but is it possible to prepare written suggestions for conditions for permits for the commission Yeah, to absolutely,
no problem. I won't do that. Excellent, yeah, we, some, I don't remember who, but I recall unaging at least in the past doing that and it very helpful. Yeah, absolutely. That's a good idea.
Okay. I make a motion to approve permit number 20, placement of Bridge Number 1007 Lake Road over Cheney Brook under the condition that the contractors will submit a deep watering plan that is within the upland review prior to initiation of construction. Any wetland plants must be approved by our wetland agent and any hay and trout bales must be free of invasives prior to construction. Second question. Okay. All those in favor. Aye. Aye. Okay. Motion passed.
Thank you. You. You. Sorry about a lot of information. Yeah, very helpful. So
permit number 20 proposal for a chamberlain upon working life unfold pending submission of a formal plan. Why good mapping data is necessary process right now? I'll work with it. Can anyone explain what that means? Yeah, or why would that come?
I got a briefing from Wayne and I didn't look into it that much because was not on tonight's agenda. Was focused on this. So all I know is that there hasn't been any new maps received.
Okay. But I really don't know. Yeah, we had asked for a drawing essentially to show where the boundaries of the placement would be. I will say, we had that application, there was someone in town mentioned that the wetlands agent has previously, I wouldn't say outright denied in a in a formal sense, but there haven't been approvals of use of millings, at least in Uplands areas for certain applicants. So I think we just need to, when the permit's ready to be discussed, we can talk about it further, but I just wanted to bring that to the commission's attention.
Yeah, that in the past. I don't remember exactly when that started, yeah, I didn't know what you're talking about because it was more of a story on things, right?
I don't recall, it was Ryan Fitch and he just, and I don't know which agent he was referring to, but just that it hadn't been approved. He was frustrated that the town had an application before the commission and this is my interpretation of it. I might be misrepresenting. He's not here to speak for himself, but just calling attention to the fact that others haven't, you know, been allowed to do so in a further distance from a water course. Just share that information.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we'll have to take that into consideration. I guess I'll have to look into I guess if he applied for a permit, I'll have to look into why it was denied and if it was similar to the grounds for this, what's going on here. I guess we can compare the two. I don't know, I think it was a while ago. Yeah, I can.
And again, like you said, Megan, I'm not exactly sure either, but as far as I know, I thought being the current was to spread milling and then being to trying to store millings, and I think went pile of it. I think that might've been different.
Yeah, I don't know, I didn't make the, the agent and the commission, we need to be consistent on this topic. I don't know if I shared it with the commission. I did do some research into millings. I don't, based on the information I found, think it's necessarily the best material choice for such a close proximity to a water body. You know, there are chemical concerns, and I think if it's not necessary or absolutely, you know, needed to be done by the town, I think from a wetlands watercourse impact perspective, it's not the best choice.
I agree. I definitely agree. Even if there was distance, because wasn't that talked about, like, coming away from the water, putting some big stones and
Yeah, that's all we had discussed, and that's the drawings I think we were waiting on was to see, you know, could we put barriers to try to control vehicular traffic and potentially increase vegetation? But I'd like, you know, not knowing the source of the millings or the composition of them, it's literally right next to a water course. Just think it's a bad precedent to set. We're gonna have a really hard time approving this permit. And then, somebody else comes before us and wants to do the same thing. Just think that we need to think carefully about it.
Yeah, I agree a 100%. I think it's kind of a slippery slope. And like you said, have to show consistency.
I don't see anything recent in emails or documents in the file for this application that would indicate any new information has been received. I see the old plans, which as you indicated are pretty sparse. I can see that we're Okay. Working on more
As someone who gave a good mapping, we can definitely make a decision and I think discuss it further. Is there any new business? Not for that.
Commission discussion, well, we kind of, I guess just discussed a few things about, you know, the millions and, you know, our feelings of millions. We're not huge fans of that by the water force. Is there any other commission discussion? Anything else anyone would like to bring up? No. Any other business? That's it. Next regular meeting will be Tuesday. I'm
sorry to circle back, but under commission discussion, it did come to my attention. I don't know how I missed this, but that we have four alternate vacancies. I was wondering, yeah, so we definitely have at least one official and then there's sort of a gray zone where I think Wetlands kind of has two extra alternates, but we at least have a very clear second alternate vacancy. And I didn't know if we had been posting that or otherwise trying to advertise for applicants for that position or those positions.
I haven't seen any advertisements, but I think it's a good idea to try and do that. I see three open positions, but maybe I'm looking at things.
No, you might be right. My math is poor. Yeah, so I think we have Bill as one, and then I think, yeah, there's four, and I think it's an issue where the charter and, blanking on the term, but
I I haven't heard or seen him from Brad Kelly.
I I think he was an alternate. Correct? Did he step down? He's a member. Oh, he's a member? Yeah. And he emailed I didn't hear back about this meeting. Okay.
Okay. I haven't seen him in a while. I thought it not okay. He's a member until next June.
Next June. Okay. That was my so are we all on the same commission term? All your terms expired June thirtieth twenty seventh.
Okay. Okay. Would you be able to reach out to is it Roberta who updates the website? Those things? Yeah, I'll figure it out. Okay. Okay. Send her email to see if we could get something posted to Sure. Absolutely. I'll turn it. Does that sound good to you, Megan?
Yeah. Yeah. Especially, I mean, obviously tonight there was just the three of us. So Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's good.
Okay, any other discussion or anything anyone would like to bring up? Okay, our next regular meeting is Tuesday, 08/04/2026 at 7PM. I make a motion to adjourn the meeting on Tuesday, August 7 at I'll second. I'll give that one to you, Jan. Meeting at your end. Nice seeing you all. Have a good evening.