Meeting transcript
IWWC Meeting
December 4, 2023 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Yay. Permit application, IWWC23Slash17.
63 Bunker Hill Road. The wetlands croppings were approximately 54 acre timber harvest, sawlog, and sized dead or dying trees.
Yeah. Austin was he had another meeting tonight. He was hoping to join this one via Zoom. And when he got out of that one, he wasn't sure what time. That's why I switched to order till later, but he's not on there yet. So
Okay. And that's still in it. Yeah. So you recommend that we go and and do the other business and hold that one open, but he said he shows up? We can
if you want. I mean, it'll buy a little time, but
I'm not sure. He said it was it was well, he wasn't sure if he could make it. He was gonna try. Well, are you gonna give him a call? I know it would be nice to have him there because well, he he's not really on the job there or anything. No. I think he's the supervisor for. Yeah. I mean, he's managing it. Tell him how to do his research. Design design design design.
I haven't write this just in case you couldn't make it, so we could create a response. Make sure you're in the water.
I guess, Bill, I would I would recommend that we, you know, hear from Hay, and then we ask Hay for his assessment. Okay. The foresters respond to a flutter and see where the hard spots are. There was, you know, one or two things that I thought we were gonna hear about, and I didn't hear about them and either, but I think certainly a good start to, you know, Hank's slutters seems to be pretty counterintuitive. That and the other thing I think is maybe we could do,
like, pick one of our commissioners, you or Duncan here and just maybe give an overview so Jan can get an idea. Ed can get an idea of what the timber harvest walk sidewalk was all about.
Yeah. So I can talk to him. He said the same thing. He's currently in another meeting, and he's you can maybe start with if you'd like
would you mind? Sure. Just giving us an overview of what the sidewalk was. And Sure. So we went to the site and looked at, you know, all the trees, and we found where the vernal pools were locate everything where they're gonna be cutting the trees and distinguish, you know, how far from the vernal pools and wetlands, who's gonna be.
We looked at some of the crossings, and one of them I said, I I thought we said we weren't gonna use. Right? Right.
And we kind of looked at the other ones, and they looked pretty solid. They did. The crossings look really it's all rocky. Yeah. Because they had used them before. Yeah. Yeah. So
we kind of determined those two were pretty solid on they weren't gonna do much damage to anything blurry there. Especially because he said that if they made any rusts they were going to smooth them all out and plant grass or you know whatever trying maybe any type of damage that they did.
The one crossing that was a little bit wet, it was
the more than most one. It was quite wet. It's probably 20 feet, 25 feet wet
terrain, and it was not quite so rocky, but probably down below it was. But that spot,
I think that's one that we said he could do the big
rocks there. Yeah. Right. Right. That's that's what I thought. I would see written up in the narrative response and didn't see anything in here that I could tell that was addressing that. You were the most crossing.
Well, it's not mean, you said at first, you weren't gonna use that one. Is that is that the one? We are gonna we are gonna use the first one. I mean, the
most northern one? North. No. Northern one. Yeah. And that's the one that's wet. It's wet. That's the one that's wet. Yeah. It's gonna need some kind of bridging or something. The one that that they didn't are gonna use is the one that goes across this big wide area here. They're gonna focus on this one that's more narrow. Two of them, the revised plan, eliminating that crossing, but there's still three other Yeah. Woods as you go up. Okay. Great. Thanks.
I think that one as long as he did, like, the temporary bridge decks and a hole of rocks, it wouldn't even be in the mountains, and it could clear right open. Right.
Right. If it was bridged right, it could Yeah. Clear it.
Is it bend is it bend rock you're talking about? Or they're, like, big, huge No. It's like glacier glacial So It's like Like, can I just say plow?
Just plowed right through the hot hot river valley and just pushed all the rocks up. And Bunker Hill was, like, just all I mean, it's pretty solid rock almost everywhere. There's a few spots that are quite bad. I was wondering, Marina, one more time. Up the photo. The think it's number two. That's the first one.
So Hank the problem with ruts is the migrating salamanders can't get out of the rut people's above all the area. The Tuesday I believe it was. The conservation division which has been submitted by the recommendations regarding the following pending timber arch application application number 23Dash17 On 63 Bunker Hill Road. A natural resource inventory completed by the conservation commission identified several important weapon habitats associated with this primary part of Bartow. These include a Bartow struck weapon system and at least one potential vertical. A second vertical is located along the northern boundary of the property adjacent to the town of Olin and that's like if you're talking about in Northern End where the other town of the strip that used to be one of the Route 6 alignments that converted from the Department of Transportation to town. This portal pool was found to be highly productive during wildlife surveys conducted in spring twenty twenty two with over three sixty wood propagate masses, 60 fossil mammary masses, and a long hydro period. Hydro period is the amount of time that the corncobes tend to hold water. Generally, when they hold water for a longer period of time, they are more productive in young salivators and frogs being able to get out, importantly, to ride out. And it likely serves as an important refuge pool for the population because of that length of of time and indicated by the large numbers of egg masses in there. Although this pool appears to be mostly located on townland,
critical forest habitat for the amphibians breeding within this pool are located on the sixty three month acre over the marshland. The populations that tend to use these pools range out anywhere the first 100 feet is critical to them out of five hundred seven fifty feet even beyond they move pretty well throughout that forest system. As noted over the mapping of the natural resources in town the 58 acre parcel falls within a larger 100 to 250 acre core forest ecosystem. Connecticut EP considers core forest areas farth or basically intact. In other words, they have edges that are greater than 300 feet next to a road or a development. And if you were to look on that, our National Resources, you would see that the parcel 50 acre parcel and adjacent parcel from other properties there constitute about 100 to two fifty acres of pretty intact forest ecosystem. The amphibians that use the urban pools and the weapons within this ecosystem for reproduction, dependent on the surrounding forest outside of breeding season. This community of amphibians is sensitive to alterations in either the wetland and or the surrounding upland habitats, and they are considered species of greatest conservation need in the state's wildlife action plan. State of Connecticut every ten years updates what's called comprehensive wildlife action plan where they identify the critical habitats and critical species to focus on and actions to try to preserve and protect those. There were a profit now updating that plan. It's actually under the road right now. It is also likely the spotted turtles move seasonally among weapons throughout the Sparta. Turtles are protected by the connected endangered threatened endangered species act the
conservation commission recognizes that timber harvests are considered an acid ripe activity providing financial value and fuel for home eating Timber harvest can also play an important role in managing for aesthetics, water quality, and wildlife habitat and improve overall forest health. As is often the case however balancing these interests depends on the where, when, and how of the timber harvest. Therefore the Commission requested the landowners not only consider the stewardship value of the forest management, but also how to protect the populations of conservation sensitive wildlife and their critical habitat. We therefore recommended that landowners work with forestry company to implement following best management practices to avoid or minimize impacts to critical species and their habitats. And just so it's clear, took note that these recommendations aren't these are based on peer reviewed scientific studies that and it is there's a pretty good body of literature and studies associated with that So the recommendations are you're not disturb or harvest trees within the burrow pool depressions which means within adaptive wetland or the wetland valleys, staying pretty much out of the wetlands. Maintaining a minimum of 75% forest canopy cover with trees that are 20 to 30 feet tall within a zone of 100 feet surrounding each of the vernal pools and the forest with wetland. So what that means is it doesn't include parts that go in there but it's suggesting that the reason is 75% of the forest. It's the reason we like to do that is the food the nutrients for the verticals based on the leaves that fall into the pools and work on break up it's not based on sunlight which is typical ponds and most systems and that also maintains cool conditions so maintaining a 75% canopy around there helps provide that so to be very selective in the trees that are removed within those if any trees are proposed wouldn't move
avoid operating heavy machinery within the 100 foot zones surrounding the going holes and balance that I put a caveat in here normally we recommend staying completely out of those that but except along the existing main forest access road because of the site there that there is an existing main road adjacent to the main road pool and also to the one on Northern side however because of the way the topography of the site and the way they got into the work pools are there really isn't a proven or feasible alternative to relocate that road and try to come around either because of the steep topography on the northern side or the layout of weapon that very much processed
and it's already pretty much an existing main road so we're not recommending that any medications that necessarily need to be taking place because of that however use appropriate erosion control methods that will happen in the drainage process and this is important remove those before March 1 the breeding season for the amphibians they start around March 1 depending again on how how our weather is this this winter which as we all know we've got their house but could be as early as March 1 where they start moving so the animals would be coming out and starting to move from the forest into those wetlands so any disturbance occurred during that time could really have a significant impact so ideally that any
erosion control measures would be removed prior Minimize the creation of rots to smooth out any rutted areas that are six inches or greater than depth at the completion of the operation to prevent them from holding water, and the reason for that is typically the evade with water. They act as decoys and the salamanders and frogs come out to flow them will actually try to lay the eggs within those ruts that fill with water, and they typically will not hold water for long period of time so those eggs would die, and we call those decoys so if you fill smooth out those rusts not put water on the super thin. And then leave tops and trims where the trees fell because that helps provide cover for them
and it also creates less disturbance one of the things we always are concerned about and I know the plan is to minimize where the cedar trails are and roads are is you don't want to impact you know compact the forest floor so those are some standard recommendations the vicinity of more important wells with those species. In an environment capacity we we we just hope that the landowners, forestry company will take that stewardship opportunity and and not only balance use of the forest but also for our wildlife species. A representative of the Conservation Commission with expertise in verticals and weapons, confirmation is available to provide in the field guidance regarding the harvest plan should this be of interest to the landowners and forests. We'd be more than happy to do that. So I thank you for that consideration, and thank you for your you submitted your document letter for this app. Thank you. I'd be happy to. Those recommendations. I think they seem reasonable.
Yeah okay so is it available that marina can put it up on the screen yeah oh yeah that happens better and hank you ought to come up and grab a chair close by so you can read it you Okay. You know? So I can see where the bottom two recommendations that you were agreed to by the board. Sure. I wasn't exactly sure.
Yeah. So is the force of if they get an approval tonight, can they give a a more accurate prediction about when they would get the harvest?
According to this, it says it came no longer here between Monday and February.
Because there is they're just saying they can't guarantee it.
Right. Well, in if even in this first, there will be minimal trees getting removed from wetlands, water purses and burnable batteries. You know, the minimal is in the eye of the beholder.
On the sidewalk, were trees marked that we're gonna be taking?
No. The trees weren't marked. Well, we're gonna get taken. These are just marked where the where
they weren't gonna go in the wells. Yeah. Is there a chance they could mark the trees that they wanna take within the 100 foot zone around the?
I don't know. I I don't get it. You know what kind of numbers do you guys gonna be looking at as far as stuff?
Know a 104 foot. Wood. I don't have the exact numbers on me. You know given that this land has been harvested a few times in the past twenty years. Yeah. You know it's really just kind of sporadic getting, you know, any larger trees that weren't taken the last time, you know, in some areas outside of the wet areas. But as far as number of trees, I couldn't well, I couldn't say for sure how many that's gonna be. No. It's pretty pretty hard. How
many There's a ballpark of how much how many trees they were in market today. I just don't have a lot of trees. A
lot of the trees are dead. Oh, I don't know. I'm only thinking about the 100 foot. I don't know. Yeah. Only responses I have to a couple of things. One is, you know it's referencing not removing trees within the wetlands or the watercourses but it doesn't really reference the 100 foot area so I guess that's the one as long as they're you know you're willing and really this is more up to you because do the forest work for the landowners, you know from the standpoint of wildlife you know maintaining that 75% canopy within there, you know from the main wetland area it didn't look like there had been a lot of trees removed from from or if there were trees that were very selective that were removed pretty much had 100% canopy cover in the main area with the exception of where the crossing original crossing was the far western one that you're no longer using the northern one however there was removable trees on the one side however the other side of that is all forested and that's all common so I think it's just being judicious on any additional trees on that northern one within the 100 foot zone because there's already been a cleared area there the other area other weapon area along the water pool there's probably much more discretion because it doesn't look like there was if there were removal it was selective
so it was still pretty much 100% canopy through both of their swells so as long as you know you know the forest floor understands that that you're trying to maintain that level of protection within there and be you know judicious on the trees that are removed within that I think you're fine outside of that that you know it's doesn't it's less of an issue because you're not clear cutting you're doing that you know that so it's not it's really that 100 foot zone. The only other topic I would have then if they're not because I understand that dilemmas of whether we get frozen rather than so what I would suggest is if the
bullet here where number three where they talk about the you know removal by March 1 so if they're not able to remove the mass by March 1 I would leave them in so in other words if you get to the harvest and you're harvesting I mean it's going to be harvesting in March would be a potential problem for the the animals are moving there could be significant mortality because they're going to be on the surface and they're going to be moving they're going to be moving throughout that forest area going to the wetlands so that presents the dilemma. I would almost say if you're not able to would you consider pausing and harvesting outside of the breeding season you know maybe looking at harvesting what you were able to do in the wintertime and then if you still have harvesting to do skip that spring it's also not a good time to be running heavy machinery through there during the spring and then harvest through the rest of the summer so they're drier so you know once again that depends on the weather which we don't know but rather than just following a recommendation of March 1 it'd be better to leave them then and not call them out.
Yes just the two points the first one you made it may not have been very clear but the last two times that there was logging occurring, whether it was by us or by all the last time, were, you know, trees taken sort of in the picture you had with the path of the pond on the right, you're considering. That's a little, there on you know certainly around that wet area there were no trees there instead and there's no plant to take them out of. From that area out to where the northernmost crossing would be. That area kind of is where they focused last time and that's all been, that's now done. So there's really no plan to take much if any in that area that we're, that you're talking about. So, you know, the, the other part of the forest is really where the majority of those trees that weren't taken the last couple of times will be taken. So I don't think there's a plan to be within that 75 to 100 feet of any of those pools for this upcoming round. Okay. The second part is to us it doesn't matter if we do it now or if we do it next summer you know so I can talk to Austin about the timing of when he's planning to do this You you know given their new schedule and the delays if it it makes sense to just do it next summer we'll do it next summer. There's really nothing that's saying that we have to get it done right now.
So it was it just seemed like a convenient time for us if we were able to do it. Yeah. In November December.
But you know obviously with some of the delays we need to move it to the summer that's still coming. I mean the ideal time is the winter because everything's pretty much sure but again the way our winters are going on schedule so so I would just avoid that spring season you know because that's when they're going to be active and there's a lot of activity going on so I think everyone will be happy to avoid spring right exactly that's right that's can come in and come out and command to watch some trades
but, you know, I I just I I don't think a lot of them now people wanna drop them now and take them later. They usually have a one to two month window from when they drop it to when they wanna take it. So but I'll I'll talk to Austin about the timing and see if I can persuade you to get into this winter month yep but if not then you know we'll
we'll see what we need to that's great and as I said we'd be happy to come out I'd be happy to come out at any time to put questions about some of such. I was Oh, looks like he's on a Zoom call.
Good evening, everyone. Sorry. I was just waiting for the right time to introduce myself. There is a lot of discussion there. I apologize for being late, but thank you for having me. Yeah. I'm not sure what questions and concerns you folks have went over. If you'd like, we can go over them again. I'm not sure if you I'm I'm not sure what the consensus is or what the progress is looking in and discussing, details regarding the timber harvest proposed on Bunker Hill Road property there.
Well, I guess I had a question and that would be if we did approve the application tonight, when would you be able to plan? When would you be able to get in there? You know, we've about the desire to do it over the winter. You said you can't guarantee that because of the delays. But, you know, given if we were to approve it tonight, could you be out by the end of February?
So, yes, as as you mentioned, my previous intention was to have the timber harvest happen this wintertime, obviously, with delays, which I understand, that has obviously been pushed a little bit. So really, at the end of the day, it depends on our subcontractor's schedule. If he is able to get there, if it's if the application is approved tonight and he's able to get there in the next two, three weeks, I'm gonna send him there in the next two, three weeks to get started. It really depends. Obviously, I'm trying to keep an eye on weather. It being 50 degrees again this weekend isn't helping much of anything, but, the best shot as you folks, as I overheard besides waiting for next summer, would be to try to capitalize on it this wintertime, ideally when the ground is frozen We're having multiple nights in the thirties and twenties, etcetera, etcetera. So, ideally, I'd like to get it done sooner than later if possible just because we also don't have the promise of a dry summer anymore. As we mentioned with the frozen winter, these days, it's hard to tell, especially the past couple years. This summer, we've had a ridiculous amount of rainfall and precipitation,
which hasn't helped any in terms of logging and timber harvesting across the state in Southern New England. So although I think waiting for summer could be a great idea, it also might not be for that retrospect. And in terms of the wildlife, as said previously, by the gentleman, I'm sorry. I didn't get your name before. But the animals aren't moving in the wintertime. They're moving in the summertime. Wintertime, ideally, is the best time to harvest. Even if we don't have the ground conditions we wish for, I think it is the least intrusive in terms of wildlife impact. So that's my thoughts is if I can get my subcontractor
there by the end of the month, we will get him there, and he very well should be able to get it done by the end of February, if not very early in March. But if it's any appeasement, one thing we can do is I can have him conduct the timber harvest around the wetland and the watercourse areas first, and then stick to the upland portions of the property besides the street besides the wetland crossings. And then he'll finish those last, so there will be minimal impact to any creatures if the harvest does start creeping into or towards March.
Can I respond to that? Agree that the winter is certainly the best time to do it regardless of conditions ideally the frozen ground but even after that's the better time the March though is is a real problematic time even if you were to do the harvest around you know do the closest to the weapons first and you would do in other areas the animals are coming from various areas throughout that forest so they're not just stacked up around those weapons in fact those Upland nobles are probably the primary habitat, Upland habitat, so I would rather it be that if you you know you got started with schedules and you found that you needed to get into March that's where the recommendation was to sort of have a pause because it and you know again we could play it by ear if you were willing to the blame owners were willing to depending on the weather conditions it may be that March is frozen solid and it's the opinions are not starting to move until the end of March or early April and you can go right in into you know a good chunk of March but it also could be that they start moving at the end of February you know the February 4 and we have an early spring and well what I would just try to avoid is activity during that period of time they once they start to emerge
they're going to be very vulnerable so it would be better to pause activity if they are active over that period of time. And we could determine that based on the weather patterns and also the monitoring that we do at various sites to know when breeding activity starts. So I think it might be one of those things that's best if we sort of because none of us are going to be able to predict it we're not groundhogs we're not going be able to predict what those conditions are going to be. I would just like to offer that maybe you know as we get toward that period you'll have a better sense between your schedules whether whether you need to go into that March period or not and then we can see how those weather patterns are and make a determination
that would be my recommendation if you were open to it you know but ideally we all agree that it could be done before that that's the time to do it.
I definitely agree Yeah. Like I said, I I would love to guarantee it can be done by March if we get our subcontractor there by the end of the month. I'm 95% confident he can get it done by March, but that all that's also speaking that the grounds operable enough to work on depending on really what kind of winter we have. There might be areas he's not able to harvest, and we might have to go back later, as you said, which is definitely possible. So it is definitely possible this harvest may have to be done in two stages. Ideally, we're able to get in there by the end of the month and have it all set and done by the end of February. I just cannot guarantee that is all.
From at least for me from a wetlands perspective, as long as they stay out of the, you know, the wetland areas and, you know, they use all the tips that Hank gave for areas around it. And then as they move forward, maybe consult with Hank and, you know, their commission about, you know, the weather patterns and how are things going to move forward from there, timing wise.
Pretty much I'm here. Plumb on the weather. You know what it's been going to do, like, what's next?
March 1 rolls around, if it's like mud bath. Yeah. It's number one.
Yeah. Take a pause. At least on your property, that section there should be avoided during that period of time.
Can we include this in a two part where harvest go forward? Frozen ground period, but once the fall comes and the rain comes, we then pause and we have a second level approval. Maybe you can't
do that no well I mean the thing is that the timber harvests are as of right use so I mean we're kind of limited in what we can you know kind of conditions you can impose on it We can with conditions on
all that through the weapons. Yeah, well, yeah, in the in the crossing, which is really what the what this application is about is the crossings that are needed. And then harvesting in and around the islands isn't as the right use. So we have to be careful what we you know, kind of conditions you put on it. So we don't really have the authority to.
Austin, how long does it take to get the corduroy out once you're done harvesting? Say that again. Sorry.
How long does it take to get the corduroy mats out of the wetlands areas after you're done harvesting?
It really depends on how many mats we put in. I mean, realistically, it takes, for a 12 assuming there's 12 mats in a crossing, which if we did that, it would just be for that, southernmost crossing where it's the long preexisting access road. It would take the subcontractors all of a couple of hours to have them removed.
Okay. So it's pretty quick? Yeah. It is very quick. Yes. Okay. No. I, so as I was, you know, thinking about all that we've been saying here, it sounds like a condition of approval might be for the forester, property owner, Joe and Hank to get together on-site before they started so and you could, you know, point out those areas that you're most concerned about. And I think if it's up north, you could start, you know, there and work your way south might be a good way to go about it, but that seems like up at the north end of the property is where you thought it was most environmentally sensitive.
Well, I think, I mean, the whole I mean, the areas of 100 feet around all of those are sensitive from the standpoint of path downs there. So it's it's it's really worth sort of a broad advisory recommendation as far as handling parts within those and the access. I think that the the the challenge is is the schedule, you know, if if activity goes into that spring season because of the stuff.
I mean, I was thinking you would get the we get this group together before you start so you can go and and show where you're most concerned, and then we would require another meeting of that team about the February 15 to evaluate how the winter's gone, you know, and when it would be best for the environment to stop. And, again, the the property owners, he's got a right to go for us, but we we do have a say on the crossing of wetlands, that sort of thing. But I think by February 15, we know how the winter's going, whether the ground's frozen hard or or that sort of thing.
Yeah the only my only concern is that I think that I don't want the commission to be put in a bad spot where it shows threat the commission jurisdiction is on the cross and the deposition in the wetlands handling those conservation commission arson's advisable recommendations to the landowners or contractor to know implement a source of standpoint best management practices you know that we discussed so I don't want to I don't want it to be perceived in addition it was associated with no I'm just trying to make that condition that that the property owner and the forester
take advantage of the experience that you've got to you know, I my sense is they wanna take they are good stewards of the land. Yeah. That's what I said. That's what I said. And and I think they want they want to do it, you know, they want to do it right. That's what I said. And they probably appreciate you getting there, and we could just ask that that that meeting of, you know, the form take place so that they can take advantage of your knowledge and try to do the best that they can. Well, I'll do that. Okay. It to it sounds to me though that that we should have a condition of approval that, you know, the maps are out by the March 1. That seems to be a pretty hard to meet with you. Or
and I'll handle those they need to be reevaluating from spread yeah you know with the process and you know that it's a that that can be a way to it because that's what that's I think they can prefer yeah
I guess the my only other comment was I did think that based on the sidewalk, there would be a plan to put a temporary bridge across that further most crossing that seemed to be, you know, pretty pretty deep with a lot of flow, and we wouldn't want to be What do you have to plan for that? What's that after what he has planning? I don't know he's getting. Well, Boston, do have a plan for the the northernmost crossing?
The plan for the southernmost crossing just South of the Vernal Pool Area. Correct? Northernmost. Yeah. The northernmost crossing, but it's the one that's just South of the Vernal Pool. Correct? Yes.
Yeah. So we're planning to span that with temporary bridge mats. So in that water area, our machines won't directly be going through it instead because of that curved embankment. As you mentioned, the bridge mats would be on each side of the embankment. So the machines would therefore go right over it rather than through it and the bridge mats laying within that area. And then we would still put a couple of bridge mats on both the approaches just because that obviously is a softer area.
Okay, and I see so Hank is shaking his head up and down like that makes sense. To me, you know, I was expecting on what I will call the Southern Coast Crossing, which was that long, long one to be having lots of maps in there to get across, but then the little bridging thing up on that northern one that was fairly small and well defined, it looked like we could get a bridge across there. And if those couple of thoughts were agreeable, I think that it worked for me. I I do have one other question for Austin. When you heard first in there, the first pool on the right, You got several trees there. Do they have to come out? They're right on the road.
Are you talking are you talking about trees on the edge of I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you too well. The trees on the edge of the first crossing. Correct? Yes.
Yeah. So we are only gonna be gonna be cutting trees that need and big emphasis on needs to be cut, and removed. So what I'm planning to do for those, if we're possible and able to, is we would have the machine, which we're most likely gonna be using a harvester. They would cut the tree, the stem. I would like them to keep it five or so feet tall at least. That way we still keep some sort of bumper tree on the edge, and you're not disturbing anything too close to the ground area there. But we're only gonna be cutting trees that are needed for access. If we end up hitting a couple trees and scraping them, it really depends on how bad that damage is to the tree. If it's going to die or if it has the ability to heal over. Really depends how much of that vascular cambium, the living part of the tree layer that we actually disturb. But we're going to only cut what we need, need, need, need to cut.
It's like a wide area there. Wouldn't expect them to have to cut and get those to have access. That would be nice if they could stay. I I think that we can because it is pretty rocky on that other side. That that as you saw, that's Maybe an inch or two inches. And, again, Joe, just a question on on how much, you know, where our authority ends. I know we've got uplanding. We've got streams. Do all streams have a 100 foot upland review area next to them
in Andover yeah so except for the you know special there is no which
which give it to you yeah so when Hank was concerned about the 100 foot around the Vernal Pool, that's really we've got a planned review area jurisdiction around the vernal.
Not my understanding shows that's not I mean there's there's a cover of rubbish because it has a yeah in in wetlands
and up on the river it was written as an ad to provide for that for farming and agriculture so the only forestry
the only thing we can do is we took jurisdictional review because we're going to put maps and weapons yeah because you considered it yeah
Oh, okay. So Which is road building, which is not it's not an industry.
Yeah. You know, you can drive through there with no max, and we have no authority. We put beds in there to be good stewards, and now we have Well, creating significant
erosion would be a violation. Okay. So if you just pour it up and Yep. And still Yeah.
Yeah, I would try to make a motion if we have no other questions by the commission here. Alright. Comments on the other comments? Or I I did have one comment for the
landowners. I'd say you guys take a really good shape. Get that land in really, really, really good shape for, you know, the.
Yeah. So if I could just say one more thing to that. So I personally have been I grew up there. I we moved there when I was eight years old. We've been cutting firewood for as long as I can remember. For the first thirty years, thirty five years of my life, my father would only allow his own vehicles to go through there because we had control over minimizing any damage to the woods and really leaving the woods as pristine as possible. And it wasn't until just recently where we might have said, you know, our machinery is getting pretty old. We're getting pretty old. You know, that's when we started looking for a company that we felt comfortable using that would do minimal damage as well. So we trusted to to basically leave no trace or leave as minimal of a trace. Talked to many different companies. I had a long talk with a representative at that hall and I felt that they shared the same value that we did. We chose them the last time and we felt they did a phenomenal job. When you walk around the woods, it's very difficult to tell where
they were the last time. And that is a very critical thing for us is that we don't want the forest decimated. You know, you mentioned even 75%, I would argue that we would keep it at more than 75% in treatment coverage. Just we want the forest look, that's just how we've always been. You know, want to discuss stipulations you can but I think we'll be the first ones to say no the ground's falling out we want to stop we want to delay. I think I think we're we're you know going to be the most I eager to keep the forest in the best condition that we've. So I just want to leave you with that, that you know, I know maybe some homeowners
want, you know, they'll be fine for their cutting, but that's certainly not. I appreciate that we all appreciate that yeah well I would make a motion to approve permit application twenty three seventeen subject to the following conditions there would be a temporary bridging in place over the northern crossing The forester meet with Hank, Joe, and the property owners prior to the start of forestry operations to discuss environmental concerns that the Conservation Commission has, and again around February 15 to just target how the weather is going over the course of the winter and and, you know, decide on a course of action to wrap up for the winter. And that if if operations aren't complete by the March 1, they will be secured with the site stabilized until sometime later in the summer. Ben. Like deer from the property owner you got any comments on you know something there that sounded ridiculous or that no
like I said I mean you know I will respect your decision I I think you know like I said we'll be the first ones to say I think so I don't I don't know that it would be necessary, but that's certainly okay with us. Okay.
Okay. Yeah. Just the the March 1 thing. I don't know if I do, like, a strict
prohibition on that just in case, you know, if it's for a little solid. Like this. We just have February 15 to discuss it. Yeah. But we're just leaving the max the the former max in on March 1. It's not now. Right? That's what we're talking Depending on Depends if if they're Right. Yeah. Mean, it's got anything else but one tree, they decided
to leave that tree in there or something. But Joe can assess how it's going and let us know how it went. And yeah I'm some pictures of that satisfactory plan the the property always want want to take care of the place there you know is probably overkill but I think you know we would want to put those stipulations in there as a matter of routine with whoever was coming just to make sure that you were taking as good a care of the environment as we can do our part too. September harvest going forward with circulation. And I'm not gonna try and reach in those two. Nope. And Austin can start trying to get everything scheduled.
Definitely will do. Yeah. Thank you all, and, we'll go from there. And I'll be in touch with Joe and Hank and the landowners, and we'll proceed from there. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a good night.
Thank you. And thank you, guys. Yes. Thank you. Appreciate that. I think you were right. I'd like to get it through that no matter what. Something I hate. Well, so You know, it it goes back to, you know, the rough start we had, 04/2001, they put the new house in there. And they were supposed to be coming in and talking to Joe ahead of time. So we never did that. Never did that. Think I'm waiting for it. So what better if Joe had a chance to Thank you. Another? Thank you.
He wants us to review the regular schedule. Do you go through all the dates? For the year? For next year? Yeah.
I mean, I had a question, but Joey answered it. It was just an interesting thing.
Right. New new business, we don't have any new business. Right? Okay. That 25
Site Rail Road, is that gonna be something you're gonna be doing? Or is that No. Could be. It's a It's not really going over the water. Just No. It's next to it's I don't know if you were you you were on when they did the bridge Yeah. Across. Yeah. So there's that little, like, turnaround there that won't go to Garage. Yeah. Well, it's like a shed. There's no garage. It's like a building, you know, storage building, I guess. Looks like a garage to me. Yeah. It is, but it's without the Oh. They're not building storage. Oh, man. It's a shed. Yeah. It's a large shed. So I'm working on that now. I got some some stuff for them. I'm gonna put a condition because it is like, we were looking at different I've I've been out there. We looked at putting it up, you know, the house, and then that's not because you have to carry everything back and Right. Everything from downhill. Then there was another spot with a parking spot that was pretty close to the stream. And then where they want to put it now is on the other side, a little bit further away, kind of the best spot we could think of. Someone put a condition to meet with them and get the erosion control. Doesn't mean the big risk would be pretty close to that spot. During construction. Yeah, it's definitely going in there. So what's the electric? They're gonna run power?
There's a pole.
Well, there's a pole right before that footbridge to get to their house. So they're just gonna dig a trench across the driveway that's already there. It's just a gravel driveway to run the power there, and there's no plumbing or anything up there. So it's just that.
Okay. So that that's not gonna be with us anyways. Right? No. It's all up on review.
So agent report. Yeah. So that's that one. Number eight. Yeah. That's we just talked about that one. Oh, that is the one one we just talked about. Yeah. Alright. And then the next one was the jurisdictional ruling review of the timber harvest. It's on Boston Hill Road. There's no house there or anything. I met with the landowner, and we walked the property. And he was another guy that was really concerned about avoiding wetlands, but we figured out a way to get around it. There was two. There was like a vernal pool. There's a road going up, kinda like that one, but it's, you know, well above it. It's not wetlands. There's a vernal pool. I can put I don't know if I put any pictures on online, but I put the other information for it. But anyway, there's a vernal pool that you can if you go down the road, you can get around it and access the other side. And then there's another wetlands, and then there's, a section of upland, and then it goes back into another depression. It's not really like a water course. It's kinda like a wet area, but you can take that. It's like an old road, stonewall, you can go through there so you can access every part of the property without having to cross any violence. So we came up with that plan, ran it by the forester. He said it was it was fine. We could do that. So I signed off on that because there's no violence crossing. Okay. Good. You guys have any questions on that one? K. No.
Do I mean, I don't know. Does does that get done a lot in town?
Timber harvest? Yeah. I haven't had one in few years. I remember a few years ago, we had a handful of them. This one, the guy was just trying to make a little extra money, I think. And he didn't have a a ton of wood to harvest, but he was
yeah. So I don't know. I mean, people that were just here, they just got they use it for their heating. Right? Yeah.
Yeah. He he was I think he's a builder, and there's, like, post and beam shed. So he's gonna use some of it for that, and then some of the other ones sell. This is up on Boston Avenue. Yeah.
You were talking you were talking about Yeah. People that are here. This is my They they have an old house, like, '17 hundreds. Yeah. And it doesn't have any installation, but think they probably go about twenty, thirty people a little different. About a tree in your yard. It's a good thing you've got over 50 acres. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I handed in that other business here.
24 regular meeting schedule. I had it with me, but I gave it to Carol Lee. It could look fine.
You got one too? Yep. Okay. I guess I'll get it out. Yeah. Oh, okay. No.
That's alright. I mean, don't know how much reviewing you need to do. But It's basically the same
as the other years. Yep. Yeah. It's holiday. It's the falling to the day in a real time. First Monday.
And, next meeting is Tuesday, January 9. Well, I reckon I do here. You make a motion to approve the schedule. Yeah. Oh, okay. We gotta approve that, Scott. Yeah. That's why. I'll second it. And you make me approve of me. Did I miss that?
I'll make a motion to approve this schedule. I'll second it. Everybody that's in favor, say aye. Aye. Okay. Aye. Our next regular meeting is January 9, 07:00. We have the same place. If we have any bid Yeah.