Meeting transcript
Board of Assessment Appeals - Appeals Hearing
March 19, 2022 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
That clock hasn't been advanced. Is it really? Something happened. 10:02.
Oh, he's just saying it's recorded. Oh, yeah. That's all. Alright. So I'm gonna do the pledge of allegiance. You can join me if you wish. The pledge of allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And be seated. So since the Hadam's were here first, I'm going to start with you. And, what we're doing is reminding everybody, you took an oath when you first came before the board, and that oath extends to today because the continuation was until today. So we have an opportunity to present, additional evidence. And I see from what I was sent that you have included a, appraisal report from the Fortney Group. And Linda, if you had a chance to see that. I looked at it quickly.
Heard what Eric was saying. These are the HAEDMs at 218 Lake Road, Andover. Yeah. Think we know that.
Bob, have you had a chance to look it over? I looked it over online. If you can just let me take a quick glance at it again just to refresh my memory. Thanks.
So what we have is, we have an appraisal on their current home at $960,700, and, that was an increase over the previous year assessment. I would believe it was, what, $6.72 or $20.20. I don't know. We don't have that other Yeah. That's not on the field card.
You don't have the letter? There's a letter right here. Okay. What is Is what we're looking for?
The current rate. Right. So the previous year, it was, an assessment of $5.16. That's the assessment. I had my video there. That should be good.
Alright. So can I hang up or do you wanna leave this channel open?
No. You can hang up. Yeah. We can hear you through the phone. Okay.
All right. Sorry for that folks. This is still buffering. So do have any other information you'd like to offer? Then we're going to go with discussion.
Just, Linda, please make sure your phone's on speaker so I can hear it as well as possible. Okay.
Do do you have any other information you wanna bring towards your phone? Do you only No.
You just muted it. I just muted it. Okay. Technology. Yeah. I know. So can you hear us, Eric? Yes, I can.
Yeah. We can hear So you I think that's good. The only other thing that I have to add is that this appraisal, she was not able to take anything off for our location on the lake and that we live on the pond end with a foot of luck on our end, and we can get to about 70 which is by about 40 or 50 feet of grass. But the reason is is that we could not she said that we do not know if we could do anything with that or not. She actually mentioned that in the in the appraisal. So she said if we find out that we can't do something or we can do something,
could affect the appraisal. Right. Right. And, I mean, I I just don't feel that, you know, us being charged as the people across the lake that can walk down to their lawn into a nice sandy beach, have a beautiful seawall. You know? Yeah. The last meeting, Georgette mentioned, we had 200 feet of frontage of water plus. If you look at the pictures, there's a inlet. There's two pieces of wetland that come in, and then there's about 30 or 40 feet. And then there's all the weeds and, different, say, obstacles. So you can't even I mean, be it's hard to even try a monster canoe. And then the other 100 and something feet is total wet waves that we have no we can't even use. I mean, we can't even get to it, really. We have to cross little in little water that comes when the lake builds up, it comes in on the left hand side of that grassy path
Yeah. Field. The appraiser made actually fairly extensive notes Okay. Of the the the shallowness, the proximity to wetlands, the the fact that you would need special permitting if it's allowable at all. So I think she took all that stuff into consideration in in her valuation, whether the assessor did or not. Yeah. You know, that may very well explain. She said she couldn't take any any
deductions for that because we don't know if we could do anything there. Mhmm.
So I is a whole another Yeah. Well, she did she did consider that as two areas of negative considerations. Right. So it sounds like she did actually take it into account in writing She did, but she said she didn't
couldn't take any any value. Figure it into the appraisal. Could not figure it into the appraisal because and for us to know, we have to really get law hiresome people come to some wetlands meetings. And from what I understand right now, there isn't even a wetlands This is a too many decision. In the town right now for a wet list since down going to the town. They would rehire anybody. Right there. Okay. So it's just another matter that we're gonna be taking up in the future, I guess, and coming back to.
You can only work with the information that you've got. Right. Yeah. And So when we come to that, Greg, I guess, we'll address it and see what happens.
I don't know. I came to your house. Yes, you did. Yes, and you sent us. You have a lot of stumps like little landmines everywhere. Yeah, and the swamp area is no, no. Okay, the swamp area is a lot of stagnant water is in there, and I'm sure it's breeding mosquitoes and I'm sure it's an unpleasant area. One thing we did recently is we got a copy of a decision a court decision in which we've got the information between the plaintiff and the town and the town put an appraiser on and he was talking about it and I can quote this. There's a question posed by the town attorney now as far as preparing this, has it been your experience and evaluating waterfront properties that the type of waterfront is important. Now this is the town attorney, meaning deep water, muddy water, sandy beach, or sandy areas. Can you explain to the court how that might affect valuation to the extent that you considered it? So to answer the question, yes, I considered the factors. To explain that again goes to the overall utility of a lakefront lot. Some lots, lakefront lots, have sandy bottoms, especially if we're talking about a glacier type lake. However, this is a man made lake built in 1927 and there's a dam and actually your honor the lake itself, the lake bottom is privately owned. It's not owned by the lakefront property owner. So the dam and the lake itself will privately owned. It adds to the type of the bottom and with it the utility. If you have like my mother's house is on a lake and old lime, it's mucky. So there's a dock and it's wonderful fishing, but you can't swim there.
So this discussion is that the town does lower the value. Now I don't know if the assessor took that into consideration. He never had a discussion with the board other than the fact that he was reviewing appraisals. He wasn't commenting beyond that.
Oh, good to Georgia. But he just looked at the card and said you have 200 feet of right down the lane. Right. But that's why I said, well, if you could someone came out and looked. And I know it's a big detractor. You would you know? Out of that 200 feet, there's a stretch about maybe not even in half the size of this room where you could walk down to the grass. I saw it with yep. I saw it. Lily things and big mounds. Right.
And it's very possible that there's a a further negative impact because if you can't do something with that, it's going to stay the way it is because you can't get burned today. You sink down. Right. No, I I understand. So, what what's being said is, I've been there in the community. You have. So, So the appraiser apparently isn't comfortable going lower than she has it. Probably because she didn't walk in the water probably didn't do that. And within her purview she didn't know to what extent she could comment on that. It's a lake. The lake bottom is owned by another property. She said she couldn't defend her. Right. Right. He said she if she went. Now. In the future, If you try to get a permit. Yeah. And environmental concerns are so strong that they don't give you a permit and you can't improve that lot in that lakefront. I think at that point, you should come back to the board and say, listen, we've done all of this. That's why I'm bringing this up. Right. That's fine. Put it on pressure. Now, on the other hand, if you Alcoa decides to dredge that cove, they your value goes up.
So twenty years ago or so, they had that discussion. Uh-huh. And haven't done anything? It didn't. It would we I was, like, so, you know, happy, but something happened. Mhmm. I'm not sure if that was before the dam or after the dam. I think it was after.
After the dam. And they were really thinking about it. And then there was a something about where to put all the muck, and I said, you can put it all on my property. I'll take it. You got your numbers in ordinance? Well, that that's for the eight sixty one appraisal. Can't Dry out. It's tops. It's 70%. Alright. So
it's not as low as they requested, but it's still less. Right, right. Well, that's the information
that we have to work So we're going to, I'm going to make a motion that we accept the value as assigned by Linda Fortin appraisals, who's a certified Connecticut independent appraiser. Her appraisal number to you is 800And60 1000. And that would give you 70% of that value would be 602,700. So your assessed value would be 602,700.
And that's what you get taxed on. Yeah. That's, yeah. Which is less than what you had. Yeah. It's not quite as low as you want. Yeah. Well, it's almost 100,000 I'm paying. Yeah. And,
and I recognize all your, what you what you brought to the board. I mean, we're at 18,400
right now, so that's gonna put us over 20,000, which is, you know, retired couple
is pretty hefty. How do you apply for a senior citizen discount? To triple a. So real quick. It's a little humor. Because I'm I'm an AARP. That's you. Before
we go any further, am I correct that the motion is set the assessed value to 602,700.
Is that correct? Correct. Okay. And I'll second it. And Linda has second that motion. All in favor. Aye. Aye. It carries unanimously. Thank you, Eric. So you're and if you get more information right then next year you can come back and. Well, you need to file by February 20 prior to February 20 and you go through the same process that we just went through and the board tries to work as much as possible on factual data and the more independent, the better. Mean if you get an environmental group on and they come in. There's a spotted toad in there I don't know so then we'll we'll address that, but right now.
I haven't seen any spotted toads. You never know. My eyes stop the toads in there. Maybe you'll have some of those big new spiders. No. Have you ever spoken with Hank Bruner? He's the,
consulting herpetologist that we have that comes in. So he's all into the turtles. Oh, really? They're We we we
have had some turtles, actually, the flower beds, last year, turtles. Must have laid eggs in there because we had snapping turtles. Oh. About 50. There were millions. They were just coming out, and they're in the driveway. Was picking them up to put them under the grass. They were all I'm not the freaked up. Stole my I
let him look at the We didn't run them over. What do you call it yeah do have the appraisal. I just want to keep with my records.
Thanks for coming. Thank you appreciate it guys take care. You're welcome.
Welcome to the Grimaldi family. Yeah. Again. Well, it's everybody's coming back for more than one swing at the pinata. And what is the address for Mr. 353 Lake Road. It's a current house under construction. 357.
Oh, I'm sorry. That's what we're talking about. 357. They live at 353 and the house is 357.
Right. This is the property that you subdivided a couple years ago. I was I was on planning I remember. Yeah. They just brought me in as a temporary alternate here because the, the chair, Surajette, is out of Connecticut.
So So since our last meeting, you graciously let me go to the property and look it over and provided us with this, which was a good help. We have to go back to the relevancy of October of last year, and so this addresses October of last year so that's really so it's saying that. You had 55% completed on October 5 and it lists all those items when what percentage they represent for the House and, of course, the photos did you guys get this. So. Looking at your your form, it says, estimate the value at 125 back in October is that correct. Yes. And the town was looking at its value. The assessment after review, I guess they came down a little bit from Vision.
Yeah. Originally assessed the well, they appraised the house at, like, 457,000 at 55% complete. But we went back to them, and then they dropped it down to 295,000. Again,
you know? Still the assessment on the $2.95 brought it down to the assessment to $2.00 $6.09 90, and you thought it was more appropriate at $1.25. Right.
Based on those stuff, with the, you know, the battery at the home. Right. Did you have a cons make note that
the document you're holding, that's from the bank. Those are Right. I see that. Bank inspection at that time. Right. Mhmm. I I understand that. Your wife and I talked about that in terms of you had a loan amount of 200. You're not building the whole thing for 200.
We're originally where we're gonna, but now that COVID hit, you know, it's been in the process. Yeah. That I would've I would've thought it would bend over that.
Was there a construction appraisal done or the bank do an appraisal to support? That's that's an inspection. How much is the bank does for us?
That's their inspection with pictures. No, no, I'm asking was there when you go in with a project right? Don't sort of like Jivan who's coming before us. They bought a property to get that property. They had a bank appraisal. You know, you're selling by, so you never did any type of bank appraisal.
We had to give them a list of, you know, what it was going to cost us. Right. Don't think they were came out with crazy. Yeah. Each time they do that, they charge us. So,
so you're saying that this whole project here was 200,000 and fifty five percent was done so that's why you came up with a 125. Yes.
Right, I mean 55% of 200,000 less than 125 but you know just reasonable I mean, it's 110. So,
all right. You have any other information we're gonna have a discussion but I can't start discussion and if you have any other information you want to give us. Okay,
so we're gonna now have a discussion regarding this matter and. Between the original form being filled out the questions that have been answered and the construction inspection form being offered, Robert, what's your what is your take on this?
The construction inspection form looks at the status of construction on the on the structure and the loan amount, and and that's how how you derived the 125. It doesn't take into account the value of the land. Any comment on that? No. I agree. I agree with that. Okay. So if we're gonna come up with an assessment or appraisal, we would start with that $1.25 or $1.10 or, you know, that's I agree that that's a reasonable way of evaluating the current value of the structure under construction. Mhmm. But we also need to bring the value of the land into that calculation in order to get the total thing that we're we're basing the value on. And your land value here
is 88 for. The total is that assessor appraised or. That's the appraised. 8 for. So it would be, do you want to do the addition of 84 on to 125? Well,
$88.04, let's just call that 90 and 120. Okay. So that would, that would bring it to $2.10 for the assessed value. Okay. And what did the, count come up with? This is Yep. Right here. $2.00 6.
So what's the $2.10 you said appraise though. I can't do this in my head.
That's the assessment. So we're saying $2.10 for appraisal, the main value now she's gonna take 70 and figure what that is. Okay, let's start this again so. We've
got 55% of 200. Call it what it is 110 okay And then Appraised or assessed? No. That's
I know. Appraisal. That's appraised. That's appraised. Okay. Appraised. Thank you. Okay. That's appraised. One ten. And then appraised? Appraised land value $88.04. Okay. So that'll give us an appraisal figure and then we take 70% of that and that's what they're taxed on. Yeah, roughly. Sorry, 70% of that is 147 for an assessed value. So you feel comfortable with that.
And what did did John come up with for an assessed value? Yeah. So it's it's substantial.
Yeah. But there's there's merit to what they're presenting. Mean, we have to look at the snapshot of that home October 2021 not where they are now when they get their building certificate he's going to jump in again. Know. This is the snapshot. Yeah right from October. Right.
I mean, I'm good with that. I'm comfortable then. Yeah. The 147. Then he'll be back. Well, you know, I don't know a year. Don't know how long it'll take you guys to Yeah. You know and then we'll go then.
But I need a motion of someone. Okay, then I will make a motion to reduce the assessment to 147,000. I'll second that. All in favor. Aye. Motion carries 300. Get all that Eric.
Oh, the motion was to reduce the assessed value to 147,000 even made by Linda Armstrong, seconded by Roy. Motion carries 300. No, was seconded by Bob. Oh, sorry.
Okay. And yet it was unanimous. And that was for the Grimaldi property on 357 Lake Road.
Yep. So you'll you'll be getting a letter from us just stipulating what our decision is just to formalize it. Once your project is done, certainly come back. And I I don't know what your assessment will be at that point as you don't Yeah.
I do have a couple of questions. So the field card, who comes up with that information? How is that in the court?
The assessor's office is in charge of the field card. So the assessor's office is responsible.
And we know that that card was, like, way off completely wrong. Yes. Okay. Many are. We've we've discovered that. They're talking about? Yes. Yes. He's responsible. Alright.
The other question or or thing that bothers me is that we the town hired this vision government whatever solutions to go out to people's property and assess them. They did a terrible job. They were way off twice.
Who's held accountable for that? The assessor. So again, Jerome. He is their direct supervisor. So if you were, when you went to vision, and you say blah blah blah to them, they give you an answer that supposedly is backed up by the information from the assessor's office. Sometimes it didn't come out that clear and vision explained to people because we've heard this that we don't know why the value changed. We weren't given that information. So that's their answer. It's not really a good answer, It's annoying. But it comes from the assessor. That the
assessor got the information from Vision Government Solutions. Okay. They were out at that property. They got it completely wrong. Mhmm. So the assessor's basing his decisions on that field card Mhmm. What information they gave. Mhmm. Who's held responsible for that? They screwed it up, and we're paying for it. Not just you. Oh, I agree. I imagine it's like, you know, a lot of people. No. No. So the talent is I'm imagining paying a good amount of money for this company to do this, and they're screwing it up.
And how do we change that? How do we change Exactly. Company. Yeah. No. That's Why do we waste any money on this week? That's my I don't know if they're the only game in town, but it seems like the entire state of Connecticut uses vision Well cards and you would want to bring that information to the selectman and say we just recently went through this, this is what we saw, you know, Can you please address this problem and see how they respond to you? Just curious. Were you there when the vision people I were
mean, I spent I spent half an hour with because they came, they had a clipboard with three pages of information, and half of it was incorrect. I I spent half an hour with them saying, no. That's wrong. No. That's wrong. No. That's wrong. Absolutely. And the same thing with vision. But did they do anything about that? Like, did they make any changes? Oh, yeah. They corrected the stuff. I mean, I checked what they then put in on the the the field card, and it was updated to have corrected information. So They guys wasn't Yeah. Why wasn't ours?
Even 353 Lake was not updated. They That's wrong. They were walking you know, they said we have vinyl siding. It's not vinyl siding. It's just, you know, it's just a mess. It's a mess. You're not the only one. Listen to us. They didn't make any changes. We've been hearing this all the How do we get fuel card correct?
So there are people in town that have the same problem and that I know for a fact they're trying to correct it, but the only person that can change lacking a directive from the court. The only person who can change that card. I can't change it. You can't change. You can point it out is the assessor. The assessor supposedly according to testimony given at court the very first thing he does is check the field cards to make sure they're correct because the algorithms that are used all that data that's on that card like if you have two sheds right if you have a paved driveway as opposed to a gravel or dirt it all becomes a number within a system that then spits out a number So if there's errors in the card, it will give a wrong number. And then he further clarified for the court that the term garage is used ubiquitously across the board for any outside car structure. So a guy had a post and beam beautiful you know post and beam building built and it held two down and two up and it was called the garage and Mr. Chipona said it's wrong because there's no algorithm changes made for post and beam structures as opposed to your common garage.
So he goes that's where I come in and I say it has to be a higher value because it's a different quality, different presentation and a different value.
So he tries to explain that to us and I can understand that, I can understand you're trying to come up with a value of that property. Right. Market value of that property, which, you know, is probably not easy. But to be $300,000 off,
you know, when we met with VisionQuest, we corrected everything he had on his card. It didn't get corrected here. Right. And that's mister Chaconis. Yes. You could bring it to Eric's attention and say, listen. We're finding this Not to be a smart ass. No. No. I understand. Chaconis is not doing his job. Who's responsible for that? The man that's taking the notes.
So, you know, account manager's a waste of $75, if you ask me, because he should be overseas. Apparently, he's not. Well That's my problem.
You know? Again, the select you know? Taxes are pretty significant for Florida. Help me out on this Bob. The Sound Administrator works under the direction of the Selectman. Why don't you just ask him? He's listening. I know. Eric, do you work under the purview of the Selectmen directly? Are you responsible for the, Mr. Tuponis' office and what they are choosing to do or not choosing to do?
Sure. I'm a direct employee of the Board of Selectmen.
He's a direct employee for them. But your day to day responsibilities, if if it's alleged that Mr. Japonis is failing in some aspect of his job, do the selectman look into that or do you look into that? So potentially both.
So should the Grimaldi schedule a meeting with you to give you their concerns, or should they bring it to the selectmen?
They they're free to do either approach if they're unhappy.
Okay. Here's your answer, right, from the man. Thank you. Anything else we can answer for you, Will? No. That's it.
Ultimately, though, the system has checks and balances and hopefully the ability to correct things. That's why you're sitting here right now. So and we don't work for the town. We work for the process. That's what government solutions told us. Wow.
Except somebody pays them. Yeah. Exactly. Nobody pays us. Nobody us. We're here out of the goodness of our hearts.
All live here. We all are subject to the same situations that you are. So
Okay. Well, thank you very much for your time. Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for coming in. Have have a good weekend. Want the chairs back or? No, leave it right there. Can we see if the Shahs are on? We can look. I mean, we gotta do the Shahs, but I, if they're on that certainly. Yeah. It's only, it's only us. Okay. All right. So what I'm going to do now is, we're going to move on to an application by Jigand LLC, as written by Rayor Shah. They own a property in town that we refer to as the Andover strip mall in Route 6.
What is the address?
144 Route 6 is the exact address. 144 Route 6, and it's the Andover Strip Mall. I think there's six, businesses or so in there now, And the information presented at the last meeting with these people, said that they bought it last year for $850,000 And they had a bank appraisal for their loan that said it was worth $850,000 So now they've come to us and they have asked that it be lowered to $571.50 Is that it Linda? That's what it says.
And then talking to him at the last meeting. I don't think that's that's the same as this number. Oh, before
the hearing, that's just what they're just I think they're just putting in that number. Oh, they're asking.
Is that the assessment. Oh yeah, assessment so what's 70% added. We're working this out there because the number they put down is wrong.
What I was in the middle of doing was seeing what eight fifty times 70% was, which is five ninety five. Uh-huh. Which is more than that. Which is more than that. And that's the number we would go with was the $8.50, right? Yeah. That's actually less. 570,150 divided by 0.7 would be 814,500.
For me, for me personally, I think we're he's right on. I
think we just leave this one. I I think Without a different
that I think the assessors got this number correct for the property and the timeframe. I understand their position is they feel that the business model is off, but that has nothing to do with the taxes of the property.
Robert, anything you could add? I just want to make sure that we're doing this right administratively. We are positive that they've been notified that this hearing was going to happen Yes.
Okay. They responded to me yesterday by email Uh-huh. And said they had no additional information.
Alright. So they're not submitting any additional information? No. No testimony? No comments? Nope. We know that they're not connected online. Correct. All right.
I got nothing yet to add then. I think we have to leave it because if we were to do the 70% of the $8.50 they paid for it, it's even more than that. What they're really being assessed.
So I'll make a motion that we leave this assessment value as set by the assessor's office and not make any changes. I'll second it. All in favor? Aye. So Eric, I made the motion, Linda seconded it, and we have a three-zero vote in favor of supporting it to leave it as is.
And Linda seconded, correct? Yes. Yes. So the motion is to leave the assessment as set by the assessor's office. No change. Correct.
That's it. We're done. Right? Well, I just want to bring you to attention. I sent out letters from the last meeting we had. The People, have been given notice written. Or so. Right? Yeah. And I went to New Britain. I picked up that copy of the timber case, and, you both have been given a copy of that for your Mhmm. Personal edification and training. Yep. Thank you. And, other than that, it is, what time is it? At an hour. It is, well, we need a motion.
I make a motion to adjourn I today's second this. All in favor. Aye. It
is, 10:44 10:45. Motion made to adjourn by Mr. Roy, seconded by Linda.
And, Eric, we appreciate your helping us. No problem. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. We're all done? Yep. K. So we have