Meeting transcript
BAA Special Meeting
May 9, 2020 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Taxes we deal in assessments or appraisals. Okay. Taxes have nothing to do with us because we don't control the mill rate. So tell us about appraisals.
Okay. Alright. The assessment went up to $2.71. You deal with that. Right? Is that the assessment or the appraisal?
The assessment went up to $2.71 200. That's what's listed on the price and tax history. Now, that's the tax.
Well, the the appraisal is a 100% and the assessment is 70% of that. So, if you tell us what it was appraised at, we can you're talking about just the dwelling?
The dwell well, the whole property. I think the dwelling, just the dwelling because all it says was they came and did a visit. And based on that particular unpermitted addition, they upped everything up 24.2%. So the 271 would be the assessed value. Is that correct?
The you mean? I don't I don't have a $2.71 on my sheet here. It's a tax assessment. Is that what we're talking about? Well, I'm I'm looking at your card and The
price and tax history is where I got that information from.
Well, see, we don't we don't have tax history because we've that taxes change with the mill rate. All we have is the values and at the moment, well, you paid $335,000 for it. That's correct. And now it's being valued at $321.06. Right. So I don't understand why you would think you're being over. Because in 2011,
it was increased 24%. The whole issue is there was an addition that was put on the house prior to me purchasing Mhmm. That was never permitted.
Yeah. I see that on the card. There was no permit. Right.
No. I I didn't know that. You didn't know that this addition was there when you bought it? No. I didn't know that it was unpermitted. I didn't go through that. I had you know, my real estate agent and the other real estate agent never disclosed that to me, that this was an unprimitted addition.
Don't think would affect the value of the lease today. Well, it increased it as of 2011, 24%. There might have been a penalty involved for not getting a permit. Don't I don't There might have been what? I'm sorry. Maybe there was a penalty involved because of not getting a permit. Don't know. Where would that be addressed? I I have idea.
We're here we're here today to look at the value of the property as it is appraised today, and it's actually being appraised for less than what you paid for it two years ago. So I don't I'm because somebody did an audition without a permit. I don't think. That has anything to do with what you're asking today. Well, if it was not increased to 20 to 24% increase back in 2011, wouldn't the value of my house be lower today because of that? Not necessarily. The value of your house was $450,000 back in 2004. Right. The real estate market was higher. Okay. And it is waterfront. So there's a big portion of your taxes that are because it's waterfront and being waterfront I know about that because I Okay am on your
so how do you assess it then I mean you don't look at prior year's assessment and
subtract. I think the assessor, they have a formula that they use when they appraise properties and houses, and it varies depending on the market from time to time. Okay. So yours was valued at almost a half $1,000,000 back in o four. So and now, mean, it's 335, which is what you paid, and you're now only being appraised for 03/20/2016. And your assessment is 70% of that. So I don't know about what do you think, Alan? Do you think there's a basis for doing anything here?
Well, I would be looking for an independent appraiser, miss Goodwin. I'm here. I'm here. To come to us with information
on what that independent appraiser would have be next year because. Right. I mean, that's why we have an assessor and we pay him to do these things. If you can if you can bring us, you know, like, next year, bring us comparable houses that are being valued at less, that would be Discussed. That would be more of a a way to to let us know you think your house is being appraised too high or assessed too high. Linda, Louise looked back at the tax history and there was an addition done without a permit and the value went up 24 and a half percent and she feels that
because she didn't know and no one had known at the time that it was done without a permit that she's being over assessed. But she paid $3.35 335,000 in 2018, and two years later, it's only being appraised at $321.06. There was a time back in o four when it was sold for 450,000 because the real estate market went way up and waterfront properties became very expensive. So my feeling is that I don't think the appraisal or assessment right now has anything to do with what happened in 2011 with an addition with no permit. So I don't see a basis. It was reevaluated, it says in 2010, based on renovations with no permit.
So you're saying because that increase it has nothing to do with the the value of it today? No. But wouldn't they look at that square footage in that room and add that today to the assessment, which means that was unpermitted. So by right, that shouldn't have been added in. So my concern is about
not having a permit doesn't change the size of of your dwelling it
goes by the size of your dwelling and when you bought it that dwelling was there with the addition
right but some assessors don't look at if they know that there's a particular room or something that's not permitted they will not add that to that to the assessor about this
to my no see again I didn't know you still there? Yeah. We're still here. I lost you. Okay. No. I didn't talk to my assessor
because I first of all, I didn't need an assessor at that point the way I purchased it. But the issue is resale value. If people know that the house is not whole, if they know that there's some part of the house that's not permitted, that wasn't done accurately or maybe not accurately, but by permit, that reduces the resale property of my house. Assessors won't add that. I've done some research on it. And assessors won't add that to the assessors report, which means my my house would be assessed at a lower rate, which means whoever is coming in to purchase the house may not be able to get if there's a loan,
a loan through the bank because they look at the assessors rate. But this was done ten years ago. I know. Well, why why would it affect the value of your house today? Anyone that comes in, you know, a real estate agent is going to look at what the house looks like today and the footage today. It's not going to go back and say, well, ten years ago, they did something without permit. Just don't I don't see that point.
Well, some real estate, I mean, real estate agents out there, if they did a proper job and saw that they would have brought that up and said that was uncommitted. Do you still want the house? Now if I had known that that the room was not a permitted room, I might have gone back and forth and said, okay. I want someone to come out here and
check it out, make sure it's, you know, as it should be. Would you have preferred that they made the person that did it take it up, take it back, take it down? Take the price down? Whatever the addition was. To take it down? No. When you bought the house, you bought it with that addition. Right. But
not knowing. Not knowing. I mean, I I feel that I don't know whether the room is up to code
and all that. Well, that's what I think is why you should go and talk to our town assessor. And if that if if he feels you are justified in wanting it lowered, they can do that in the coming year. We're going to have a reval pretty soon.
I know this might affect that as well. Next year. Right. So the town assessor is not in your area. That's totally different person. What? Who is the town assessor? John Shaponis.
And I can talk to him directly regarding this issue and office on
Monday evenings from five to seven and on Thursday mornings. And you can call Roberta Dougherty. She's the assistant, and she can tell you when he's in the office. You can have him come and inspect your house and see if there's a change in the value. But for this particular issue, this is not
relevant to what we're talking about. Okay. So the assessor is the one I should talk to. He's got the clout to do whatever he needs to do for the assessment? He's the one
that values the properties in Andover he's also the assessor in the town of Colchester full time and I'm here. Okay that's fine so I will go ahead and talk to him and and it will only be good for next year because this year this is the end of our that's fine okay okay thank you very much Georgette you're welcome Can I talk, Austin? For recording. I just
for recording purposes, the letter that you read, Louise be posted or shared with the board, Georgette? I did.
If you want to email it to Amanda she can put it up.
Okay well is that something I should just talk to John about? I mean does
it need to be that would be my recommendation that you would go to him first to see if it should affect the value of your house today because of what's done. That's not really something that we've ever had to deal with. Okay. And I just don't I don't personally, as a VA member, feel that it changes the value of your house just because ten years ago somebody did something without a permit. Okay. But that's, you know, I don't I don't know. Alan and and Linda, do you feel that that's justified in lowering the assessment because something was done without a permit ten years ago by a former owner? I don't see that as being the case. Okay.
Yeah. I don't I don't believe so. Okay. And I think, yeah, I think she should talk to the assessor first. Right. Right. That's usually I think the way it's done, right? They talk to the assessor and then if they can't come to an agreement, they would come to the board. Right. Exactly.
Okay. Will do. Alright. Thank you. You very much for coming. Okay. And I'm going to drop off unless you need me on. No, that's fine. Okay. Alright. Thanks for coming. Everybody.
Alright. Now I'm gonna make a motion that we don't change anything on this. I'll second that.
You second it? Okay. Yeah. And all in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. Alright. Thank you. And now the second one is Darryl and Gretchen Stahn.
Hi, good morning. Good morning. Good morning. So our house has severe foundation damage. It's the condition commonly known as crumbling concrete. Yes. We understand that there's a statute which allows for an adjustment of the assessment if we can show we have that condition. I submitted several documents, both from professional engineers. The first was a professional engineer that I retained, and he showed that our house has severity category three damage and that has allowed us to be on a list and when the funding becomes available we will have our foundation replaced.
Right. I read all your documents and highlighted a few things. There is definitely damage and you have the right
paperwork and you did go to the assessor didn't you with this? That is correct. He was at my house and he took photos himself.
Okay, very good. The only thing from reading through you have down that you based on the damage or whatever 90% reduction.
I don't claim, oh I'm sorry, I'm not an ex, I don't, you know, I'm not knowledgeable of how it gets adjusted.
That was just something I found on the internet. Well they had, they did have some guides from the CROG paperwork. I think you sent that to us. That's correct.
So they had it's in my summary letter. It's one of the appendices. It's appendix B in my summary letter and they have something called level D which is moderate to severe degradation and I think I meet that level because the foundation needs, it has to be replaced. I'm definitely not at level E because the house is not condemned.
Right, and from what I read, I know I talked to the assessor and he felt it was a 60%, but from what I read, I think it's 75%. I don't think it's up to 90 yet. So, yeah.
I would say 75%, which is minor to moderate degradation and they use those terms in the inspection that I read. So that's why my suggestion would be to lower it. See, I'm looking at the November 2019 supplemental PE report, and it said, based on total count of coarse aggregate particles and la la la la, aggregate to be approximately 60. But of course, that was in 2019. And I'm sure have you done anything to mitigate this getting worse faster or not? No, I have not. I have not. Now you're planning on having your foundation replaced.
Well, I am on the list to have it done, but we will only do it if, you know, we we need to do it for safety reasons, and that's not the case, or when funding becomes available.
Okay. So I don't know, did Alan or Linda, did you get a chance to read through these documents at all? No. Linda's muted.
All right. Sorry, I had to let the dog out. Oh, Okay. What happened? Did you get to read through any of the documents
of Darrell Stein and Gretchen Stein's reports on their foundation and, you know, the crumbling foundation? I looked through it quickly, and I'm not an expert on it myself. Well, I did go through them. And my feeling I I know I talked to the assessor way back. It seems like it was, you know, before the March meetings, which we didn't have, and he thought it was, like, 60%. When But I started reading through the reports and all that, I feel it's more like 75%.
That That was where I left off when I went to Let the Dog Go, was I heard So
let me ask a question. Do you need to follow the CROG guidelines? I just lost The
Crog I mean, we don't need to because it's our decision. And reading through you know, I read through all of these and I highlighted different, you know, different lines that I thought were important. And of course, I mean, I'm not an expert either by any means, but I think lowering the dwelling to 25% of what it is now would help a lot. I disagree with the assessor in that he said 60%, but I think it's more like 75. Okay. I don't think it's 90.
Okay. So I mean, I guess there's a small difference between our positions. Just, one more thing, if we go by Crogg, I think we're definitely level D because significant repairs are required. I have to have the foundation replaced. I cannot sell the house without replacing the foundation. Level c, which would be 75 percent, it says repair suggested or recommendation or recommended or and it's also minor degradation.
I definitely do not have minor minor to moderate, doesn't it? That's correct. But Yeah. I think yours is more moderate rather than
severe. Right. So so we have a wall where there's about an inch of displacement in the basement. So I mean my position it's it's it's my next door neighbor's house was the same builder they recently had their house set down. What has the customarily happened in the past in Andover? Has it been 75%?
I have no idea. We've not had anyone come to us with this. Oh, okay. Very good. I have a series of questions when I can ask them. Sure. Sure. So we are looking at the public act last week when we did our hearing. So are we doing a reduction based on the five year allowance?
Is that what That's what it would be. It would be for five years. So it would give him that. His house would only be valued at 25% of what it is now for the next five years. So would give him time to get the foundation replaced.
Okay. So last week when we had this discussion with the other gentleman, the question came up that every town uses a different formula. Apparently, every assessor is allowed to create their own formula. Some Rather than five years?
No, no. The statute the Public Act addresses the five years. That's a given. But what I'm saying is, John Chiponas, what formula is he using to do this? Sometimes I don't know. I'm going by Crog. Well, is that so Andover follows the Crog policy is what you're telling me? I have no idea what they follow, but
I've read all the reports. I've highlighted. I've read them twice.
I mean, could only suggest a devaluation based on public information I can find, and CROG is the information that I found, and that's why I'm presenting you with a 90% number. Alright, so one of the things we discussed last weekend
is if you present a value for foundation replacement, say it's 150,000, then we were talking about reducing, say the house, say your house is worth $400,000 with a good foundation, but it's going to cost you $150,000 to replace the foundation. We were saying if we reduce your value by the cost of a new foundation, that's an appropriate value. And so we discussed this on another case last weekend. I Another case we're gonna go back over today. I understand that. I understand that. But I thought we had left it, and Linda, you can pipe in when you want, but I thought we had left it. We were gonna ask John Chipponis what criteria he was using. How he was how is he doing this?
I don't know. And he really he would just say that the BAA has the responsibility to come up with a formula or a percentage. I mean, they throw it back at us. So,
had this discussion last weekend, and I thought we as a group collectively thought that whatever a valid appraisal is, minus the value of the construction company's repair would be an appropriate balance. I
don't think that's how it works. I think if they look at the percent of damage They being cropped.
Well, no. I'm talking about the assessor would look at the percent of damage. They did core drilling or whatever. And and I see over here, it says 60%. And then another place, it says 60%. And I'm willing to say 75% because if you look at the November 2019 report, it has that figure in a number of places. And there were some suggestions of what they could do to repair the cracks to keep it from getting worse quicker.
So to cut this short, I would be willing to accept the 75%, but later, if I find that the value of the foundation is actually worth more than the building, would that take me down to 0%?
I have no idea. You'd have to go through the assessor again. Right. Okay.
So I mean, the value to replace the foundation will definitely be almost as much as the house is worth. So it's probably close to 90%, but you know I would accept 75% or if we want to proceed. That's only for five years. I understand, but hopefully within four years I'll have this replaced, four or five years.
That's what they hope. You can either do it this year and have us lower it by 75% this year
at this time the next four years. Yeah. At this time, I'd rather start the tax reduction as soon as possible, which I believe it Okay. Allows me to
Linda, any comments? Yep, I'm good with the if he's willing to accept the 75%, I'm good with that. I said, I'm not very knowledgeable about crumbling foundations at all. So I'm going to have to go with you guys.
I'm not either, but I kept reading through all these things and then looked at the Crogg, know, what they give you as a basis and all that. And I really think 75% is closer than 90%.
Okay. I consider it fair. Okay. Not that it's my decision, but it's
Well, I know. I'm happy. To I'm trying to be fair, because it's going be other people, I'm sure, that will have that problem, too. So I'm going to make a motion that we reduce the dwelling, which is the appraisal is 177.9. The assessment is 124.5. And so we reduced the appraisal amount by 130 let me see my figures here. Wait a minute. My figures are 25% would be $4,444,004 75, which would be the new value of his dwelling. Just we're talking the dwelling, not the the land. We don't do the whole I understand. I understand. Land. So the total let me think now. Okay. The total your house is assessed at 124,005 and it would be now assessed at 44,475 And so your total assessment Yeah. We'd be well, we'd be reducing it. I'll have to get the numbers out, and I'll get them out in a letter to you. But we'd be reducing it to 25% of what it's that's that now. Okay? Okay.
Alright. Is that I'm going to make a motion that we reduce the dwelling by 75%, which means it will be only valued at 25% of what it is now. I will second that. Okay. Thank you. And all in favor? Aye. Aye.
Aye. So it's unanimous. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for coming and I hope you get that fixed real soon. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Bye bye. Bye. I'm trying to take notes at the same time because I'm also the secretary.
We have a secretary in next year's budget, though. Right? What? We have funding for a secretary.
We probably have it now, but Yes. The way things are going, it's very hard to get someone in. It would have to be Amanda or somebody like Amanda to do the minutes. So I'll just do them myself. Yep. It should be funded next year. That's what I thought. Thank you. Yeah. Okay.
So we have that one done. The reports are very interesting, really. And this is Okay.
Put a clip on this, get it out of the way. And now the next one would be Jadzinski. I wish you had gotten us this paperwork much sooner than I would have had a hard copy, but I did look through all of them. And I I have pictures of what the house and the inside looked like when you bought it because I went out on the Internet and looked at the realtors, and it looks quite nice.
It looked quite nice. Yeah. So first of all, thank you, and my apologies for getting that email out so late. I just new to this and kinda did not know what I'm doing and maybe still don't. But so just to start off, the we live in Andover, not at 40000, but other different address. That property we essentially purchased for the land. The house came with it. We had it inspected. We knew more or less from the inspection of what condition it's in. Since then, it's been vacant. It's been
vacant. It's been vacant since we bought it. So we originally, we thought we might rent it or fix it up. I went with I took a asked a couple contractors to take a look at what it'd be fixing it. And essentially, it would probably they told me it would either cost as much to put up a new one as to fix it or maybe even more expensive expensive to fix it. So the gentleman that owned the building before us did a number of additions to it throughout the years that he lived. And with each addition, the value went up. The problem with what he did, he did not address the core building, the original building. Mhmm. And that is has significant structural damage. The floors are sagging close to three inches in spots. The plaster on the walls was cracking. Essentially, we decided that we are gonna demolish the building. We're in the process through the building Saturation
with the Andover Building Department and Wetlands to get our permission to demolish it. Since then, we also had asbestos inspection. So all the plaster that was cracking, that was asbestos. The floor had some asbestos. We brought in a company that abated the structure. So removed all the cracking drywall, which exposed a lot of the structure and the termite damage the structure in the wood is a lot more significant than the original inspection that I showed you is a lot of the sheeting on the walls. You could poke holes in it. But anyway, for me, that building will be getting demolished. Oh, it's essentially would be uninhabitable. I mean, not at least safely. Also, what happened when the abatement took place, it exposed a lot of what was in the walls. The fiberglass insulation was shredded by rodents and there was a very healthy rodent community living in the walls. With that comes the smell, it's soaked through the house. So essentially, it's It's going to be demolished. It's going to be demolished within a year, but I'm still going to be paying taxes on it for a year. So I was wondering if reduction in
assessment is possible. Have you had the spoken to the assessor after all of this that he could go back in and reassess it?
No, I did not. I thought this was the way to go through it. Well,
it is now, but it would have been better to go to him first because he could have done it without all of
I mean, did mention it to him because we've been in the office a number of times, before all this social And
we mentioned that we're probably going to end up taking the house down. We asked all about that. And he said that even though we we do it, we're still paying taxes for well, the way the taxes work. He said it needs to be done before October 1. So we need to get it done before October 1, but Exactly.
I have to tell you that we had a case last year where their house burned, and the whole side was gutted. But the other side was still standing. And they can't drop the assessment on that unless they level the building down to the ground. That's the only way the assessment would change. Okay. Now yours is a different case because your house is still there and it for all intents and purposes, you could live in it, which you probably wouldn't want to anyway. But if you're gonna, you know, demolish the building and leave nothing but the land Mhmm. Yeah. Are they gonna leave the basement, the foundation?
Well, that I have to I don't need the foundation, so I have to find out with the, I guess, the assessor's office whether that can stay or whether I need to rip it out just to get rid of it. In the future, I will not be building on the same footprint. So the basement or the foundation is no good to me. Okay.
Alright. Well, we can't just wipe out, you know, the the price of the building. Can I understand?
We can lower it. Mhmm. That's that's what I'm here for for to see if we could get it lowered. Okay.
Neither one of you got a chance to look at the inspection report that he sent us this morning. There is some I posted it on the website, if that helps.
Yeah, I don't if you have time now. I can give you a little bit of it. I mean, there is some termite damage. It didn't say excessive. It just said some. And there is some leakage from you know, pipes. And there was no mention of rodents in the walls, but that probably didn't come to light until later on. It did not come to light until later on. I mean, we have the same thing. My house was originally a cottage. Mhmm. So when we had additions done and we took down walls, we saw pretty much the same type of thing. We never, you know, went to have anything lowered, but I can see what you're where you're coming from.
I did work out some some numbers this morning after I got your report and I went through it. I think my suggestion, because it looks pretty nice in the pictures when you bought it. I mean, I went through and I printed out 38 pages of the inside, and it, you know, we have a lot of wood inside our house too.
Well, yes. Pictures look nice. The outside of the house still looks nice to this day because siding does wonder. Inside of the house, there's a discrepancy between what you see on a picture and what's in reality. Then, it changed, but that doesn't I mean They had a they had last sold $260,000. Excuse me?
They had the the real estate agency had on there. It was last sold at 260,000. That's together with the land. With right. Right. With this one. It shows me that you paid $1.98 9. I'm looking at your your on your card. Okay. So Yes.
The $1.98 9 for that piece with one acre with the house. Yes. That's what Okay. It was.
So Well, the the numbers that I came up with, your the dwelling itself is appraised at $1.45 6. Yes.
And I think that if we lowered that to 100,000, so that would make your assessment 70,000. And I think that would be fair. Every little bit helps. So yes.
Okay. But you need to work with the assessor. There's nothing more that can be done this year because it has to be done on the October grand list, which was last October is what we're dealing with. Okay. Okay? Yes. So do Alan and Linda, do you have comments? Yeah, have a question. Sure.
So my question is the report that you have in hand, does it have an appraisal value? Does it say this house is worth it? No. See, I would look for an independent appraisal to come in, examine this house with all the damages, rodents, termites, and say, think it's worth x dollars.
Well, it's too late for that. We have to make that decision today. Based on a report that I haven't read yet.
Well, it doesn't have an appraisal value anyway. It just tells all the different things they found. Let's Two Well, years ago. Essentially,
the reason I thought to I mean, I know I should have documented everything better. The reason I thought to send that report is just to back up what I was gonna say. The main reason I'm looking for appraisal reduction because even if the house was got it down to the studs, if the main structure was in good condition, I'm not expecting a reduction in value just because some shear rock is missing. But the problem is that the whole structure of the house, the main structure, it's just sagging. It's supported it's supported by valley columns because otherwise, it would just cave in. Mhmm. And once I had that asbestos removed, it showed a lot more damage to the structure than that original pre purchase inspection found because it exposed
the structure. Well, said in the report that the tiles were generally
used were asbestos as well as the glue. Yes. And then and after after the inspection, it showed that all the plaster walls contained asbestos, so I had to get rid of that too. So Yeah. So they So it exposed essentially the structure the interior structure, which
And you can, like, poke your finger into the wood. Yeah. And it goes to And like I said, I wish I was a little bit more prepared,
and I know it's too late now. So whatever I can get, I'm happy. Okay. I will. Linda, do you have any
opinions or? I have the report up on my screen and I was just scrolling through and you can definitely see that there's some damage
there. And what was your suggestion as to the amount? Well, the dwelling is appraised at $145,600 Okay. And I would like to make a motion to lower the appraisal of the dwelling to $100,000 which would make their assessment $70,000 Okay. Because it's 70% of $100,000 So that does help a little. I would say I'd second that motion. Okay, yes.
All right. And so all in favor? Aye. Okay. Let me write this down before I forget. Okay. And I'll say I myself. That makes it unanimous.
Now let me stop with it. And it's unanimous. K. Alright. So try to get that done before the October grand list.
I definite that's that's the plan as long as Okay. All right. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Good luck.
Okay. Then the next one is Stephen King. Is Steven King here? I am here. You are. Okay. Biggest problem is that you didn't file for personal And that's completely my fault, and I apologize.
A little background, you know, this is a part time thing that I do. I am on the board of directors for the Andover Sportsman's Club, I'm the secretary, I'm the chief range safety officer, I'm the chief instructor over there, I'm a chief instructor for Department of Energy and Environmental Protection. I'm an NRA instructor, CRSO. I'm the armorer and a corporal for the first, company Governor's Foot Guard. I'm also the president of the Connecticut Gun Guild. Is something that I joined the club some seven, eight years ago, there was a need for somebody to facilitate the legal transfers of firearms, at the club. And having experience in having an FFL back in the 80s, I decided to get my license again, but in order to do so, had to get proper zoning requirements, permits, and subsequently what I do, even though it's really miniscule in scale, is recognized as a business in Andover. And because of that, there's personal property that's assessed. Right. Again, I completely apologize, but being very busy, this was a complete oversight on my part, and I'm here to, just to rectify it.
Okay. Well, you realize, I mean, it comes to the assessment comes to 37.6, but that when you it's it's a very small amount of tax you'd have to pay, that's for sure, because the mill rate that's coming up, but
Did you you should have the paperwork that I submitted of the actual property that I used. We don't have it.
That was submitted with the report that I gave you on twothirteentwenty twenty. I actually my total, I was originally assessed at 110 for $110 that assessment is essentially accurate except for the fact that I added an addition of a safe in twelveeighttwenty nineteen, the very end of twenty nineteen. Okay. For an additional $700 that I purchased from Cabela's. My total actual value of stuff associated with this business is now $825 which is, you know, was $700 or $7.00 $5 more than the original $110 assessment.
I realize that. Now, the penalty, we can't do anything about. And now, that's there's an assessment of $750 with 25 penalty. We can't do anything about that. I I completely understand.
Penalties, mean, it's my fault that I didn't do this, and, you know, I'm not arguing penalties whatsoever. I'm just saying that the $3,760 gross assessment is a number that was just pulled out of thin air, and I'm giving you an accurate account of exactly Let
me explain what happens when people fail to file. She has certain amounts that she values for, like, a desk, a chair, a phone, a computer, a printer. And so she tries, and she uses pretty much the same figures for everyone. They don't file. And that's what causes the problem because they don't file. She doesn't know what you have and what is valued at. So she has to do a standard. She figures because it happens to be a woman, that is the assistant. And because you have an LLC, there has to be an assumption that you are doing business and that you have these pieces of equipment and certain amount of supplies. And I understand that you don't have that much. But the only thing that I would say, I mean, we would have to readjust all the values here, but and then that would adjust the penalty. With the gross assessment.
Again, have an itemized list that was the same itemized list except for the safe that I added at the end of twenty nineteen for approximately for a cost of $700
Georgette, I have that list. He's got an I iPhone, Dell computer, 19 inch monitor, keyboard, mouse, laser jet printer, Liberty Safe. I didn't get it. What? They sent it to me. I don't have it either. Yeah. They sent it to me. I got it. He says his equipment's worth $825. So what does Roberta list? I don't have that. She has $3,760. What what what items did she list?
Well, she doesn't. She just says furniture, fixture, and equipment, $840 EDP equipment, which is a computer, and then supply, 70 miscellaneous taxable property, 700, and then penalty is $7.50 So her value for supplies and equipment is what? $3,760 $3,750 Because it's 25% of whatever the value is that
Okay. I'm losing here. She put a value of $3,750 on items for this gentleman's business. And then she assessed 25% of that number as a penalty? No, no, no. That's including the penalty.
Alright. So take give me just the value of his equipment less the penalty.
According to the paperwork I have, it says current assessment for $20.19 grand list is $3,760 It would be 3,010 without the $7.50 penalty. Are
you saying that this $7.50 penalty is included in the gross assessment?
It is because you didn't file, right. There's always a penalty when you don't file. Believe me, the first time I didn't file because I didn't know about it, and I paid a penalty.
Well, I would make a motion that we reduce the equipment value to $825
And then the tax would be on that plus the $7.50 penalty, correct? It would be a 25% penalty. Of that value. Oh, the penalty would be less. Correct. Right. The penalty would be $2.00 $6 Correct.
Okay. Reduced equipment. Was that a motion, Alan? Yes, it was. Then I'll second it. Thank you, Linda. Okay, let me write that down for I got a lot of notes here to keep. Okay, motion made by plus penalty. Motion is Allen. Second is Linda. All right, all in favor? Aye. Aye.
Unanimous. Okay, 25. So the penalty would be 25% penalty of $2.00 6. Okay. So it brings it to $10.31 as opposed to $37.60 okay? Mr. King, are you hearing this?
Yeah, I don't quite understand. You're saying the gross assessment is now $825 for equipment, which is, I I thank you for that because that is accurate. And then there's a 25% penalty, so what's the total bill here?
$10.31 times the mill rate. I mean, know the mill rate Okay. Alright. So am I going to receive a bill?
Well, you'll receive your tax bill. Okay. And when when I file these papers with the assessor's office, they will lower this to the amount we said. Okay. And that's what you should see in your tax bill. Do I need to file an amended, report for this year or
No, our actions I think it's you might. I mean, I would talk to Roberta Dougherty about that if she wants you to send I don't you didn't file a personal property. No, didn't. That's why I'm here. Okay.
So, you definitely need to file one next year or this is gonna happen all over again. Am I understand. Those are the standard numbers she uses, okay?
And that's why I preface that all I do, I get pretty tied up in stuff, and this is just such a small part of my life that I know. I missed it. I get it, I understand.
I have the same problem because of an old '47 Jeep that we have in the garage that doesn't run and isn't registered, so there you go. Is it a Willy's? Yes. Really? DJ2A. Oh, guess My just telling husband used to do four wheel racing.
Oh, okay. I was actually looking for a World War vintage type Willy's, but whatever. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. And, I will make sure that I file proper paperwork next year.
Okay. Make sure that you file so we don't have to come to us again. Okay? Okay. I don't want to get spanked again. Alright. Thank you. Thank you.
Alright. Now we need to revisit some things. Mister Bunce,
You're here, right, Mr. Bunce? He's muted. He's muted, but he's here. There he is. Can he be unmuted?
He is now. I just unmuted him. Yep. Okay, Mr. Bunce. Yes.
Okay. We did review your paperwork, and you did provide us with the personal property filing and the tax bill for the town of Coventry for that Lal forklift. So what I am proposing is that we drop yours back down to 10.5 like it was last year and the other years to remove that lull. Okay. And so and please, please, please file I did. Personal property. I did. You did put some figures here. Yeah. Well, she asked me for the years and the serial numbers of the equipment. But yeah. Did. Yeah. I put it in a letter because she had asked me to put it in the letter. Okay. But make sure you file that personal property document. Yep. Then you won't because it, you know, it adds a penalty if you don't.
Yeah. Well, Doug Yeah. We did file it this year. Yeah, well. Okay. You have a copy.
Yeah, and she did say, last Saturday we talked about the assessment on the land. Right. And she said that I never did receive anything. She said it was put into the computer, but I never received a letter on it. She said it was straightened out. At professor's office. We don't have anything to do with the $4.90 and stuff, you know? Right. No, you just said I should have been notified that that was all taken care of, and I wasn't. So she said it was something to do with the computer that I never got notified. Okay, then she I will make a note But it was all straightened out, she said. Yeah, it is. Yep.
So I will make a note to have her send you a notice or a letter or whatever, okay, about that? Okay. Okay. Letter from assessor about April.
Then Well, George, you're going to make a motion to I'm going to make a motion that we
reduce his assessment back to 10,500 like it was without that low machine. Okay? I'll second that.
As far as the I think that's yeah. That would be the same thing. Okay. So we'll we'll do that who's gonna second it Allen Allen seconded it okay all in favor aye Okay. Unanimous. Aye. All
right. So that takes care of that one. One of the other things we let's see, Jeffrey Hickok. He did not He never poked off. No, he never presented. The plates never presented, so they're done. I have to make a correction to last week's minutes because I made the motion to reduce the Coval property. No, I don't remember who made the motion now, to be honest. Let me see. Yeah, well, there was a motion made to reduce it by 37,000. I think Linda did that. Yeah, probably.
But the I have the minutes somewhere. I just don't have them with me right at the moment. They're a Yeah, think it reduced The problem, in the minutes, I had put 482,000 down to 445,000. It's actually 482100 down to 445100. So I'm going to correct that in the minutes. Correct. That's good. Okay? Yep. All right. Now oh, here it is, the minutes. Yeah. Made it was made by Alan and seconded by Linda. Oh, there you go. Okay. Donald Simmons, this is we made a terrible mistake last time because our calculations would end up really not coming out the way we wanted. And he did not provide me with his phone number. He did not provide me with his email address. And I don't know, I just kind of feel like it's like he's avoiding making it easy to contact him. And when I calculated out, along with the penalty, at the $3,007.60, like, is standard for when you don't file, we wanted to lower his
whatever he would pay have to pay. And we totally screwed it up because when you multiply it times the mill rate, it would come out to, like, $17. So that's wrong. So what I am proposing is a new motion to just leave his assessment the way it is I disagree. To a little over $100 but
I disagree. I disagree. Disagree. Okay. Why disagree? I think the point we were trying to make with that gentleman is that he was obligated by the information the state provided to create an LLC. And we just blanketly did it with a high number. And we accepted his explanation of why he did it. And the reason he doesn't conduct business, he doesn't, he's not looking for giving people his phone number or his address. He's not doing that. Okay. But let me mention.
Okay, go ahead. I don't think that we should be penalizing him for what the state told him to do in order to get monies from that fund.
Why did he not ever go to the assessor's office and report that he thought he had a crumbling foundation?
He didn't even know about the five year period for lowering the value. Mean,
he's Okay, very we've had crumbling foundation today. And this man went through he went to the assessor's office. He got an inspection report. That's him. That's him. That's true. But I just I have a problem with someone that I mean, he says the state told him to. He says he doesn't have a computer. You said to him that you accepted that. He doesn't have a compute. I know, but I went searching on the Internet. I am gonna remain steadfast in my opinion.
So it's gonna come down to Linda. Yeah. I don't why should we change what we did last week,
I guess, is my question. We wanted we were trying to get to him to have to pay $100 And by mistake, we ended up with what we did, he would end up paying like $13 I think it was, because of the mill rate. We don't deal with taxes. We were talking taxes, taxes. We do not deal with taxes. We deal with assessments. And that's where we made a mistake. And it's my fault because I didn't think about it. But we deal with assessments. Well, then The only thing we have to
what we did last week if he's not even here. Right? So
Right. He he could've come. He could've come in. There's no reason why he didn't come in. He came in last week. Yeah. But he he was required to last week. Alright. I think he thinks it's all set. So I don't wanna change
it. Yeah. He wasn't he wasn't in the meeting when we decided this.
So he doesn't know what we decided yet. Oh, he doesn't.
Again, my position is I think we need to leave it alone. You think he should pay $13?
Yep. That's for yeah. And next year, he's gonna have to refile. He knows that.
I just don't understand why a person that thinks he's got a crumbling foundation this man is not I mean I'm discussing his crumbling foundation,
though. We're talking about an LLC that was made and then and the number thrown on the LLC. And he explained to my satisfaction why he did it. And he's not he's being naive that he had to file anything. I'm just saying. Alan,
he said he did it because he has a crumbling foundation.
Right, and we told him to go see the assessor about the five year reduction. We educated him on that.
Wouldn't the first thing you do is go to the assessor and have him come and inspect to see if he thought it was a crumbling foundation? Foundation? No.
You wouldn't do that? Not if I thought I could fix it myself. He he talked like he thought he was gonna fix it himself, and then when he found out how expensive it was, he went looking for monies from the state. And the state says you can't apply for a grant unless Okay. So I think we should just leave it as it was. Thank you.
Okay. Then I'm going to make a motion that we change it back to what the assessor's office sent him. And I'm not going to get a second. Correct? Correct. Okay. So the motion doesn't pass. And that will be in the minutes. Okay? We'll leave that as it is. That is Simmons. Seconded. Okay. And now Stephanie Apatow I'm gonna make a motion that we just leave it as it is.
That was the girl with the farm. Right? Right. Is there actually a building on that property?
Oh, yeah. It's it's her mother's house. Oh, okay. Okay. But that's not it's only she's only assessing her for the LLC and the business equipment. And it's it's not a large amount because because the the values were much, much lower than than she normally than Roberta normally uses because Roberta did, I mean to, because Stephanie did come in and talk to her, but she did not file a personal property. You can't just do a business and say all you have is pots and dirt. It's gotta be, you know, other things that you do. And and even though it gets she said a lot is given in to her or whatever, the seeds are expensive. So I I am for just leaving the way it is. The assessment is $2,010 and then you multiply that times the mill rate and it's a very small amount. So I'll make a motion to leave it as is.
Alright. I'll second that one. Okay. And next year, hopefully, she does the form like she's supposed to. Then she's a CPA.
They need to They to put down what it is, you know, that's that's part of doing business. Okay. This is Apatow.
I think we still have to vote on that, though. Right? Correct. We still have to vote on that one. Yeah, we do. Okay.
Okay, all in favor. Aye. Aye. Okay, unanimous. Okay, I think that takes care of everything. Let me check the other list here. Ickock, he didn't come and Clayton didn't come. Do they still technically have till noon though?
Do we what? Do they still have till noon to show up in here? They do. Okay. Well actually they were scheduled for last week. Oh, right. Okay. Both of And I told them that if they had to be there because that was their appointment. So everybody that was supposed to be here today came through. They did come. Alright. Good. So do we normally adjourn or do we have to stay active until noon? Well, we said ten to twelve, so we do have to kind of stay available.
All right, so can we discuss I'd like to discuss crumbling foundations and how we approach them in the future.
Sure. Oh, there is one thing that I wanted to talk to you about, Alan, and that was with Don Simmons. No. It wasn't Don Simmons. It was Covals.
The Covals and Yeah. That's the first one we heard.
Yeah, we did. And that's decided. But you should not express your own opinion about the assessor or any dealings you had with them, which you did. You said you had a problem. I absolutely did. I thought it was relevant to the his presentation. No. This board is supposed to be impartial. I and when you when you expressed he that
gave evidence that a statement was made, and I said to him the same statement by that person was made to me, so I believe you.
True. But you also said I took him to court, you know, the whole nine yards. Well, I did the whole nine yards because, again,
I understand where he's coming from. True. But I wanted to caution you for your own sake. If we made a decision they didn't like and they took it to court, they could call you as a witness against the assessor. You don't want that. You don't want that. I want fairness. That's the reason I That's signed on to this
why we're here. I know, but what prompted me to come here was because I felt at the time that it wasn't being fair. And that's what prompted my involvement. And my point was, when the decision was finally made on my case a role somewhere? When that decision was made, it gave me everything that I asked for.
That decision was about land. You came to us about am I muted? No, you're good. You came to us on the board of assessment appeal about some kind of a little shack that was there. It was nothing to do with land. No, that's not true. I was on the board.
Well, listen I have the paperwork. Let me tell you, he took 2.6 acres out of forestry and made it a residential building lot.
So, yeah. You didn't come to us about that. You might have thought you did, but you didn't. You came to us about the little shack you had.
You're not following this, George, yet. He said the shack was a dwelling. He said you can't have a dwelling on anything but a residential lot, so he took two and a half acres out of forestry and made it a dwelling property. That was part of what I presented.
And when they settled in out of court with your attorney, he put that land back into forestry.
Yeah, but he took it out. He had no authority to take it out. Well,
it just I just want to remind everyone that this meeting's recorded. Just Okay.
Thank you, Adrienne. You wanted to bring it up, Georgette. You wanted to bring it up.
I know, but when you tell people that you took them to court and you won your case, that's not exactly true. It never got to court. It was settled out of court. No, no. It it was in court. It was reviewed by a judge.
He said, Don't go to trial. You won't win. He told them that. You can define it any way you want. All right, whatever. Give up. Why don't we discuss crumbling foundations,
please? All right. What do you want to discuss about crumbling foundations? I want to know what procedure
this board is going to accept for future reviews. We had a discussion that the value of replacing a foundation comes off the value of the property, and that's reasonable. We didn't have that discussion. You said it. Well, then let's say this. Let's have this discussion. Okay.
I I don't I'm not really sure that we should do it that way. I think we should go by the inspection reports. And in that inspection report, the the amount of of pyrite damage or whatever goes according to percentages, and that's what you go by to reduce their assessment, or appraisal, actually.
So you're going for the Council of Governments? I beg your pardon? So you want to use Council of Government guidelines?
I'm not prepared to make my own guidelines. I have to use what the state gives us. That's all that talks about guidelines. I can't go along with that. So
the state talks about severity and it's not that they're talking about devaluing the foundation. They're saying this much is affected putting it in this category. So one could be it crumbles under the bill Your microphone is not working.
Yeah, we can't hear you, Alan. Can't hear you, Alan. It looks like it's frozen. His picture is frozen. May be something to do with your internet, Alan.
I got a screen message earlier. Okay, your internet connection is unstable.
Oh, okay. You're okay now. No, so we didn't hear what you said.
Yeah. So this Internet I mean, I have my Internet wireless router is probably 20 feet away, so I I don't know what's creating this. Pretty windy out today. Yeah. Yeah. Could be the issue. So I'm
just trying to understand what we're applying so everybody gets it applied equally. And, you know, you could say to them, go get an appraisal from an independent appraiser to tell us what they think the value of the home is, less that damage. I don't think it's for us to guess 75%, 60%, 50%, Because I'm not an expert, you're not an expert. I want the value set. If they don't believe our assessor, then they should challenge that based on their own assessment value from an independent person.
Well, mister Stein did get all kinds of inspections, and, you know, he got an inspection from his insurance company, Allstate Insurance. He got an inspection from I can't really read it, but it's a company. Let's see if it says it somewhere else because the insignia is not So what I'm saying is that
Ruben Collazo, state of Connecticut professional engineer, he got a report from there. And then the
CROG, how they value it. He had a copy of the House Bill 5180. And that's what I used to determine that I thought it was 75%, even though the assessor said 60%. And I read 60% several times in these reports. But I thought because Crogg listed
this may sound like a stupid question but what is CROG?
Capital region thank you it stands for don't have what it stands for. Capital, region Council of Governments. Council of Governments, right. And then you have down level A document to be defective, no sign of a problem.
Okay. But that's not a value. But that's not a value.
If you let me finish Go ahead. Level B, minor degradation, no repair required, 60%. Level C is minor to moderate degradation, repair suggested or recommended, 75%. See, that's a value. And then moderate to severe degradation, which nowhere in any of these reports does it say it's severe. Significant repairs required 90%. And then level E is severe degradation, imminent threat of failure, 100%.
So they do have values. No, that's not how I see that. What you're citing as percentages tells you how much damage the concrete has. That's what it's telling it's not a value. Yeah, but you're by whatever the new foundation is going to cost? No, no, no, listen. If it was a 4,000 square foot home, right, 4,000 square feet, and then and the guy next door had a 1,000 square foot home, you could tell me that Croggs, 70% applies for both of them, but the value is different.
Well, what happens is you look at the card in the assessor's office, and it tells you what the value of the dwelling is, the dwelling alone, not They break it down because you don't have to change the land. You just change the value of the dwelling. And if you lower that by 75% What does 75%
I can't explain my position. Linda, are you following what I'm saying? I'm trying to. I don't think I'm really prepared to make a decision right now though, but yeah. The CROG guidelines
talks about degradation percentages, not values. They're saying that there's so much of this pyrite material in the cement that it's turning to dust. That's the worst case scenario. Or it has so little that it barely affects the foundation. But the question is, if a foundation has to be replaced, what's the value? The value will be different on a 4,000 or 2,000 or 1,000. The value is different. Yes, of course it would be. So I'm saying what we should be looking for is a deduction if it has to be replaced, has to be replaced, then what's the value of replacement and take that off the dwelling?
Well, listen. You read through the reports that I read through, even if you have minimal damage at this time, it could be getting steadily worse because the damage is caused by water and air. And that makes the pyrite turn to dust. So at some point, you should replace your foundation if you've got it. If you don't have you have very little, maybe not. But it says everywhere that it's going to get worse. It depends on the rate of how fast it's going to get worse. So anyone who has what they call a crumbling foundation should look into getting it replaced.
For five years, they should get a reduction. In my own opinion
I'm just trying No, to get an they the maximum is five years. But if they have it replaced in a year, there goes their deduction. Correct. I understand that. But
what I'm saying is, how do we apply value to these equally? Well,
you know, there's no way that because you can't make everybody go and get an assessment. They have to pay for that, and people don't want to do that very often. So you can't say, go get an appraisal. It's our job to figure out a fair way to deal with it. And the only thing we have to work with is the documents from the reports and from the state. And I mean, we have no other choice. If you want everybody to get an appraisal
When they come to the board, they're supposed to bring proof or reason that it should go up or down. Don't.
Well, they should. Yeah, well, shoulds don't come. You can't go by shoulds. They don't do it. We have to do the best we can with the material we have. I agree with you. They should have all these documents. We should have had a lot of these documents weeks ago. As soon as they knew it was going to be a virtual meeting, it should have. Because I said in there, if you have documents, please let me know, and I'll let Amanda know. But most of the time, only one person let me know, and that was the Covals. The rest of them just sent it to Amanda and me. And I passed them on. Yeah. And then I was away from my computer since yesterday at noon until I logged on this morning. So I didn't have the one you sent this morning. Right. And I sent it out as soon as I got it. I got it at 08:51, and I read through it, and I said, well, this is important, but they don't have time to look at it. Right. And I did look through it. And I agree that the house looksI I don't know, Linda, did you ever get a chance to go out and look at the real estate
of that house? I drove out there. I think I had the wrong street number because that's not the house I was looking at. Oh, it was 40 Townsend, yeah. Yeah, I think I was looking at 39 for some reason. I don't know why I had that. I think that was the one across the street. That's where the Covilles live.
Oh, maybe I got it confused. Maybe, yeah. But anyway, I did read through it and there is some termite damage and there is, you know, like a leaky pipe here or there. I can't say that it's as bad as they say it is, but I have to take the report. And that's all you can go by, is what they have for a report. We can't just totally devalue it to nothing because that's not our we can't do that. That's not right. The state doesn't even allow us to do that on that property that we had last year that was burned out. It was gutted.
And so all they had was the outside and the framing they were having done, but the construction wasn't going very fast. The insurance was paying, but they couldn't get the guy to come in, he was doing more than one job. And so they were living with their son, and we couldn't take anything off because the state doesn't allow it. When your house burns, you have to raise it down to the ground before your assessment changes or your appraisal, whichever, because people were getting insurance paid by insurance, is the reason I was told. And then they would just leave and leave the structure without fixing it, they would move on. And so they devalued the rest of the houses on the street, so the state doesn't allow anymore. You have to raze it to the ground before they take away your appraisal or assessment. So the laws are funny, too. We do have to keep that in mind. I'd just like to see a uniform application.
I know, but there's it would be nice, but unfortunately, we don't have that luxury. We have to use our own judgment and go by reports and go by the numbers we're given. That's all we can do, Alan.
And sometimes we have to go by nothing because they don't give us anything. Exactly. Exactly. If you don't give us anything,
we can You tend not to change it. If you give me nothing, why should I change? I trust the assessor to have a basic skill.
True. Did you just say if you give me nothing, why should I change it?
Yeah. In other words, if someone remember Simmons. He gave us nothing. Excuse me? Simmons gave us nothing. He gave us testimony. And by law, testimony is valued.
He gave us he told us something, but he didn't bring us any proof of anything.
Okay. When you give testimony, it's it's accepted into a public meeting. You're trying to if you're not telling the truth, you're defrauding a government.
A You're absolutely right. That's a felony. And I actually now that you've reminded me, they are actually supposed to take an oath before they test it. I assumed it was presumed.
Well, some years when I was on earlier years ago, we did administer the oath, and then the oath was removed by someone else. Oath Last year, we put it back in. But since we're not dealing with the same paperwork because of the virtual meetings, I totally forgot about it. So we have to assume that they're telling the truth.
So the way it works, though, is if you're trying to defraud a government, local, state, or otherwise, it's a felony to do that. When you test the truth and your and your testimony is incorrect by choice. In other words, you're deciding to lie, then you could be we could follow-up on that. So when he gave his when Mr. Simmons gave his testimony, I accepted it.
Well, I did too until I went looking a little bit further. It's easy to find information on the Internet.
And how much of it is true? Not sure. Information posted on the Internet doesn't make it true, doesn't make it false. It's just posted information.
True. I just, I mean, I did a search, I found out some information. And I just don't want to be spreading it around. It is what it is. We've left it the way it was.
So in the future, terms of crumbling foundations, let's try to organize a uniform approach.
The only thing I can say about that is that we'll have to go by whatever documents they bring us. If they don't bring us any documents, any inspections, or anything like that, Luckily, this man did give us pretty much about as much as we could expect from anyone. But if you don't even notify the assessor's office that you think your foundation is crumbling, I find that a little odd. So there it is. There it is. You know, I don't know if it would be proper, but it seems like we're wasting time sitting here.
I agree. Fernando, what do you know about this? If we're all done, all points of if we were in a a regular meeting, we would normally just close the meeting. No. No? You'd go to noon? In person. We sat there for the whatever time we said the meeting would be. Oh, wow. I just
feel like whatever you would do in person, person you should do today. Yeah,
I mean we we don't know for sure that Mr. McClait isn't gonna all of a sudden remember he was supposed to be at a meeting
and yeah like I did this morning. You know, we could we could always mute ourselves and take the video off and then do go about our business and just keep checking to see if anybody's checked into. Okay, that's a good idea. All right. My computer's open so.
All right. I'll leave my computer open. What are the next steps for Amanda?
I was just saying maybe productive. Maybe there's next steps that you can just go over. Like, I don't personally know how you notify
Okay. What has to happen? After this meeting, I have to do the minutes from the meeting, which pretty much it's the motions and the votes and the people. And then I'm going to have to compose a letter to each person telling them, even the people that didn't show up, I have to send them a letter saying, you weren't at the meeting. You missed your hearing, so nothing is being done. And I'm going to try to what I did before was type up all the letters and email them individually to Roberta, and she put them in a window envelope. She managed to get the address of the person and put it in a window envelope and mail them out, and that's what I'm going to do with these notices. So I have to have these all all of this has to be done by the May 20 because that was the date that the governor designated as staying at home until the May 20. So I'm going to get this done over the weekend and I will send an individual letter to each person. If you want me to send you each a copy, I can do that. I would like a copy. Okay, I can email you each of the letters that I write. And then I'll have Roberta take them down and, I mean, print them out and mail them to the individual people. So in September is when we meet for motor vehicle. And because we don't have individual appointments for the motor vehicle part, we have to post a legal notice. I think it's ten days before
in the paper note telling anyone that wants to come can show up on the hours that we pick. I find Saturdays are usually the easiest because if people work during the week or who knows, they work nights or whatever, It's easier for people to get in to see us on Saturday. Is that okay with the two of you Saturday mornings like from Yeah, that's fine. Twelve or is that okay? That's fine. Hopefully we'll be in person by then. I would hope so, yes.
I have listed on the website the motor vehicle hearing is Saturday September 12 from 9AM to 12PM. Yeah that's fine. Okay
I guess I should write that down. What is it?
So on the website yeah it says, please note that your real estate appeal forms are due by Thursday, February 20 at four, which was is old information, but maybe it's still important to leave because people know what the deadline every year, you know. Underneath it, it still says real estate hearings are Saturday, March 14 and March 21. Okay.
And then motor vehicle hearing is Saturday, September 12 from nine to twelve. So should I take out I don't know if you're able to look at the website right now, but should I take out that first part because those that were set never happened. They had to be switched. Does that Right. Make
Yeah. They were the original dates. Now September is we were delayed. I think we were delayed last year. I'll have to check the rule book to see. I think, let's see. Must convene at least once in September solely for motor vehicles. Must be published in a local newspaper at least ten days before the meeting. And this meeting must be held on business days, which may include Saturdays. So it would be September, and hopefully a Saturday would be good for everyone.
So you're saying Saturday, September 12, nine to twelve. Is that a Saturday
this year? Yes. Saturday? Okay. September 12, nine to twelve. Where are you seeing that on the website, Amanda?
So it's under the Board of Assessment Appeals site. So if you go to boards and commissions.
You know, had to notify the town clerk of the dates of our meetings, which is supposed to be done ahead of time. It wasn't done prior to me being being chairman because the woman that was chairman made them all special meetings because she didn't know she was a real estate agent too, so she was kind of busy. And if you make it a special meeting, then you only have to notify twenty four hours in advance. But I would prefer have regular meetings because at a special meeting, you can only discuss what's on the agenda. You can't add or delete anything. So at a regular meeting, you can add and delete. So that's why I prefer regular meetings. That I would one special move. When the motor vehicle appeal forms will be due by?
They don't. We don't make an appointment. They can just come in.
So they don't have to file an appeal. They can just show up that day.
Right. Okay. We would. There will be a notice. I got to ask Roberta because I think they should go and get a form and fill it out, but I don't know if it's absolutely necessary.
You want to do the appointment of your chair to a regular position? We could do that. Do you
would you like to be chairman, Alan? No, I don't have enough experience yet or nor do I. All right. So
you'll have to make a motion and vote. I make a motion that Georgette Conrad be appointed as our chairperson. I will second it.
Okay. All in favor? Aye. All abstain. Okay. Window. Second. One abstention. Okay. That's gonna be in the minutes. True.
Okay, so I will update that on the website right now. You're gonna what?
What did you say? I just updated the website that you're the chair.
Oh, okay. So it's nine to twelve, September 12. Bring your coffee. And I will check. I don't quite remember now whether they filled out forms or they didn't.
Don't remember I went through it only that one time, but
So do you wanna make a motion, Georgette, or discuss further the swearing in of anyone who's giving testimony?
Yeah. We well, you don't need to make a motion because it's is on the forms, I had forgotten that because we're not using the forms. Yeah, it's at the bottom of the forms. I do hereby declare under penalty a false statement that the statement, according to the best of my knowledge or members and belief, is true. And they sign it. But they did sign it. I think most of them did. Yeah. But we actually should verbally give them that.
Yeah. They should fully understand because if a wife speaks up Right. And she may be a co applicant, she might not be listed, but Mhmm. We have to understand that. Yeah.
See, this the whole way of doing things has changed since I was on way back when I was actually chairman way back. We had regular forms that we used to do all these appraisals. But once I left, the people that took over changed all the forms, changed all the letters. It was a much simpler routine then, but that's fine. We can work with this. This is good. And then last year, we came up with new forms that were actually much clearer and much easier for the people to understand. So that's what we're using now. And the old back Maybe
as a recommendation, I would say change the form again and actually include something about presentation of materials needs to be sent to the board's review at least a week prior to your hearing.
It does say please provide a copy of the assessment or tax bill you are appealing. That's not their backup information. That's just the
What we're looking for is when someone has a lengthy report, someone has an independent appraisal, pictures that they want to show us pictures. I mean, they should be getting that to us as soon as possible.
Well, I send out the letters for their appointments, I did put on there to bring documents.
Well, I was just wondering if we could make it a part of the form itself. Well, this form here, I think
the woman that made it is no longer she doesn't even live in Connecticut anymore. I let's see. It does have a place for motor vehicles. So evidently, they do use this too. I'm trying to think of where we could put it. Okay. Let's see. We might be able to put it underneath the Please provide.
Yeah. That would make sense to And put it additional materials or something like that. Photographs,
reports, anything I don't know what she used to make it to make the report, you know, the page out, but I'll see if I can alter it without screwing it up. And any relevant documents? Yeah. Please provide Would that cover pictures too?
Well, I suppose we could, but you don't want to put too many words because then it won't fit on the page. True. Well, we could take some of the stars out. Could take some of the what? Stars. It's like
a whole line of stars. Well, she's got one on each end. Yeah. And any or should I all relevant documents? Or Yeah. Reports, photographs, or any relevant document. Reports, photographs.
I'll just put photos and any Relevant document. Documents. Okay. Okay. Because this would probably apply only to real estate, not the cars. They really should bring we've had people come that had several cars, they don't bring them to the hearing, so without being able to look at them. See,
that's one area where the assessor and I disagree, because he feels like condition of the vehicle or rust or whatever shouldn't be taken into consideration, but we can. I disagree. I do, too. I think it should be. I do, too. Then he says, then we should advertise that everybody with a motor vehicle should come to the BAA because they should all have an appeal. So I don't want that, but I do agree that. Mean, my car is outside all the time, and it's, I don't know, eight years old, and it's in very good condition, but I take care of it. And other people say, well, I don't have it in a garage. Well, I don't either. You don't have to
abuse your car. I don't own a garage. You should keep it clean. Well, we have a garage, but my husband's pickup is in there, along with that 'forty seven Jeep that's tucked in the corner. So there's, you know, we've had people come that have had accidents and they have dents, and they got insurance payments, but they chose not to fix the car. So if you got paid by an insurance company to fix your car and you don't fix it, that's not that doesn't give you a benefit of lowering the taxes on your car or the value of your car because you didn't fix it. You had the option, and you didn't do it. You spent the money somewhere else.
That's my opinion as far as when people have accidents and they don't get their car fixed. I agree with that.
I got to look into that whole. I haven't done motor vehicle yet, so I've got to kind of explore it. Yeah.
We have books that we go by, and we did take off for high mileage. We always did that, because some people have to drive along a lot to go to work and come back again and so that does devalue the car. But unless there was some structural, you know, rusting and stuff like that. But I I believe we should. But see now, Andover's Andover's minimum amount for a vehicle or value for a vehicle is $500, which, as Alan and I found out at the class, and you probably did too, Linda, that's set by each town, that minimum value. Right. Right. I remember one year we didn't realize that that was the town of Andover's minimum, and there were some farm vehicles that we lowered to $300 value. Well, you can't do it in Andover. It the minimum is $500 So even though we only paid $300 for that old Jeep, it's valued at 500.
So but it's not that big an amount of money. It's it's a very small amount of money when you multiply that times the Right. Times the low rate. So it isn't worth, you know making a big stink over okay how much more time we got left oh ten minutes okay any other any other items that we should address
Not that I can think of. All three of you have handbooks, right, from the CAAO? I have one, yes. You don't have one? No, do have one. Oh, okay. And I went through and underlined or highlighted things that I have to remember to do as a chairman and and, you know, the things that we should be doing as a board. The minutes have to be available to the public within seven days of each meeting, which is that will be done. Normally, all this stuff has to be done by the end of March, but this pandemic has changed things a little bit. And I will be returning this PC to our laptop. It's actually a ThinkPad to That's what I have.
Yeah. Yeah. I just have an old desktop that doesn't have audio or visual. So as Amanda and I found out, when I hung up the phones, you couldn't hear me anymore. So but it it hasn't been too bad. You know, I'm a little more comfortable with it now than I was before. I just have to keep my husband out of the kitchen while I'm You're doing great. Look at you.
I know. And it's now, last week, I wasn't connected even though I was connected on Thursday when I went in, but I evidently have the Comcast Xfinity. I know I have Xfinity WiFi because they made me get it through them. I had my own WiFi that I got from Kennedy on Route 6, and I think that's what I'm on now. I think that's my home 3 Thousand 800, so that's what I was on last week. It said Xfinity was connected, but I still couldn't get on. So then I connected the home 3,800, whatever that is. I think that was my original Wi Fi.
Amanda, how up to date are you on this tech stuff? Like, I I see this sign, Internet unstable. It's come up, like, five or six times. Really? Should I get a boost check? Just your own Internet.
That's happened to me a few times during the meetings. And I don't know. For me, personally, it's happened when it's windy out. I don't know where you live. I do live on a on the lake.
Lake Lakefront, and the wind is hitting us pretty hard.
Uh-huh. So that could be it. Yep. Yeah. I haven't had any trouble today, personally.
So a Wi Fi booster, do you think that would correct it, or I'd still have the problem? I'm not sure. I
I'll call Brian. I'll call Kennedy and ask. No. Ask him. Do you use Xfinity? I do. I know they're very busy right now, but I'm sure they would maybe have an answer or something that would help.
So we won't have another meeting until the fall then. Is that what I'm Correct. We can't see each other.
Not to discuss anything to do with the board. No, I mean, you're not. We're being unstable again, Alan.
So just for web site purposes, I have the motor vehicle hearing set for Saturday, September 12 from nine to twelve. Yep. Do they need to fill out any forms or are you confirming that?
I think it's the same form. Yeah, it's the same form.
Yeah, you can get a form from the assessor's office.
So how should it read on the website? What should I put there?
Be sure to fill out a form in the assessor's office and bring it with you, I guess. That would be Do you know the deadline for that? Is there one I don't think there is one, but bear in mind that the town office is not open on Friday. Do we have the form available on the website? It might be. The blank form? Could be actually. It should be.
Well we It's blank form. Are you able to go on the website right now and look to see what's there?
I'm on there right now. So it's? Oh, I do see forms.
Yeah, but is there a different one for motor vehicle? No, it's the same one.
The top is the property owner or whatever, that information and then there's a motor vehicle section on that same form
okay it'll just have to be updated for the next year right because this one says grand list October
2019 yeah and generally this year on the one that did that and sent it to Roberta so next year.
Okay, so it's something like please fill out the appeal form and bring to the meeting, find the form in the assessor's office or here online? Yeah, that's fine. Is that okay? That's fine. Okay.
Yeah, because you know, they one of the big things that helps us with a motor vehicle is the VIN number because those books that we look in, the VIN number tells if they have extra accessories and all that stuff in that cause it's all valued in the books. That's another thing. Mean, they do it once a year, but every year when I start looking at those books, gotta start all over again, try to understand them, because for one thing, print's very small, and I'm old.
And and if I'm correct, they can also he can put a value even on parts of cars. Right? What do you mean, Mike?
If someone has a car without an engine, it still has a value as personal property.
It's personal price, not motor vehicle. Not motor vehicle. It's got to be registered to be motor vehicle. Ah, so your Jeep's registered?
No. The Jeep hasn't been run. It I broke it years ago, and it hasn't been running probably twenty five years or more. It hasn't been registered. But we had a lovely neighbor down the street that got mad at me for some reason, she reported it. I didn't know it had to be reported as personal property. So she reported it. And the gal that was in there at the time called me up. And she said, do you have an old Jeep in your garage? I said, yeah, why? She said, well, you have to put out a personal property. I said, really? It doesn't run? It's not registered? And she said, no, it has to be. Because, again, the history of that is that
probably everywhere, but in Connecticut, people would have these very valuable cars, and they would take the registration off for the winter. So it wasn't on the October grand list, so they wouldn't end up paying taxes on it. Then they would put the registration back on in the spring. And so the state was losing all that revenue because they would take the registration off in September, and then they would put it back on in April or whatever it is. So now if it's not registered, you have to report it as personal property. And, you know, like in Fairfield County where there's a lot of expensive cars that would make a big difference to the tax roll. They came up with a law to stop that. So our old, we can't even, I mean, we'd be better off if we had it registered as an antique but it's not running, so you can't do that either because you gotta go to motor vehicle with it. So but it's not a large amount of money, it's a very small amount. The first year was a little more because of a penalty, but Well, that guy sounded like he'd buy it.
He said he was looking for an old military, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this one's, I mean, it has a roll cage and it, you know, was set up because he used to race in the New England four wheelers. He and his brother and a few other people started the New England four wheelers some years back, way back. Wow. And his brother, of course, we got out of it after, you know, after a while, little kids and all that stuff. Although, we did a lot of family things with the Jeeps and went to Pennsylvania and raced in the woods and things like that. It was very popular then, but now there's so many restrictions. And then people were putting a lot of money into motors, so it became more than you run what you brung, you know, type thing, and and so it became too competitive. So it wasn't fun anymore. So that's why we kinda, like, got away from it. And now there's still New England four wheelers, but it's a whole different club than it was then. Interesting. It was fun. So what time do we have? We have 11:57. All right. I got 11:59. Got 11:59. Do I hear a motion to adjourn?
Uh-huh. I heard that. I said, do I hear a motion to adjourn? I'll make a motion to adjourn the BAA meeting.
I will second it. All right. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Bye. Thank you very much, Amanda.
You're welcome. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Sorry I was late.
That's all right. Thank you. Have a good day, everybody. Alright. Bye bye. You too. Bye bye.