Meeting transcript
Board of Finance - Budget Public Hearing & Budget Workshop
April 13, 2022 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Okay, very good. Thank you everybody for joining. We are at the Board of Finance budget public hearing for the budget year twenty twenty two twenty twenty three. We'll call this meeting to order. Just a few comments before we start. The whole purpose of this budget hearing is to get input from the public. Is one of the many opportunities for the public to provide input to the Board of Finance and the town regarding the budget for the year. It's not the only opportunity of course we have meetings pretty often this time of year and the public speak portion is available in all those meetings. You can also send any one of us or all of us a an email letters, etc. There's also an email address specifically for the budget to provide input. It's budgetandoverct dot org. So those are all additional options that you can add your input at a later time or for those of you might be watching this as recorded meeting, you can always provide your input through those methods as well. A couple of housekeeping things to before we start for those who do wish to speak, I would ask that you keep your comments to the point respectful. It doesn't look like we have a ton of people on the list so far that could change quickly, but we do want to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to speak if you can keep it to two to three minutes. And then, for some reason you have more to say or something comes up, we can always come back to you later, but we do want to kind of keep it keep it to the point and brief at this time.
I think really that's all that I have to say last thing just a one more thing and just on my situation I have a family obligation. This evening so at some point, either during the public hearing or the special meeting following, I'm going to turn this meeting over to Diane Schercat, who's the co chair, and she'll continue to guide from there. So thank you everybody for your participation and I'll message when when I need to leave, which is not for a while, just wanted to let everybody know that's how we'll proceed. So that being said, we will go ahead and entertain comments from the public at large, see we also have several members from the Board of Finance and our Superintendent. You guys are always welcome to make comments as well as part of the public or as part of this process. So Eric, do you want to go around and entertain comments from the public?
Sure. First up at least on my screen is Jerry permit.
I'm here with my wife and, and I just want to say thank you for the time and energy and effort you put in, as always, I support the town's budget. I support the Board of Education budget, which I was a part of. We had many budget workshops and we gave people the opportunity to express themselves as well. And as a senior citizen I'm ecstatic that we are finally getting a senior community center. I went to the meeting on Saturday, it was really nice. You for those who've worked on it. And that's it pretty simple and I do support this town. I support the budget, and I support whatever this town thinks it needs in order to be a successful growing town. Okay. Next up, Eric Shevchenko. Good evening.
My name is Eric Shevchenko. I am on the RAM Board of Education, And I would like to make two comments. The first is there was a question brought up or a comment, public comment brought up at a recent RAM Board of Ed meeting. And we are restricted from answering at that meeting for freedom of information something or other. So I would like to start by addressing that. And there was a question regarding our capital budget, whether everything that was in there was something that was urgently needed, or whether it was something that could be put off for a period of time. And my answer is that we can almost always put a capital project off one more year. The problem is that we don't know which capital project cannot go one more year. So as an example, would give in Andover, I would give the Bunker Hill Road bridge, where it turns out we couldn't put that bridge repair off and instead the bridge collapsed. So what the Ram Board event is doing philosophically now is going forward to try to have a level amount in our capital budget. So we would be at around $500,000 per year. And this year, the facilities people ask for a million. And you know how that goes. There's a lot of things that can always be asked for. We settled on 500,000.
And our belief and hope is that if we can keep that at a steady level, that we'll be able to have our various capital projects funded as we move forward, accepting any extremely large problem in the future like a replaced roof or something like that, you know, the types of things that could run into millions. So I just wanted to address that question. And then the second point I'd like to make is that we have completed our proposal for the RAM budget for this year. Our proposal is a 1.22% reduction from last year. That's about $375,000 Andover portion of the RAM budget is reduced
relative to last year by $225,000 And there's also a small amount coming back to Andover, dollars 8,000 from our surplus this year. So I would just like to say that we're still supporting the facility and the students in a very strong way. I'm not going to tell you that we're scrimping or anything like that. They're getting wonderful support. At the same time, we are cognizant of the financial challenges, and have tried to come in with a fair number for this year. And we'd be thankful for your yes vote when voting on the RAM Board of Ed budget. Thank you very much. Thank you, Eric. Next up, Jenny Morell.
Hello, I am a teacher at Andover Elementary School. I teach kindergarten and I am also a co president of our teachers union and I wanted to reach out for my support of the budget that's been approved by the Board of Ed. I think it's a responsible budget. I feel like what we have proposed is necessary in order for our staff to carry out what we need to do for the students at our school. I am reaching out for my support as well as yours for our Board of Ed budget. Thank you. Thank you. Next up, Valerie Bruno. Superintendent Valerie Bruno.
Was fine, Eric. I just want to reiterate what Jerry had said and what Jenny has said. I feel like this year we have really gone far beyond to make sure that the Board of Education did its due diligence, listening to all of the stakeholders along the way. I think that we've created a budget that is academically sound, it's fiscally responsible, and we have done so by making sure that we can accommodate all the needs of the kids and the staff. So I would just ask for continued support from the other boards as this goes on toward the taxpayer for our vote. Thank you. Next up, Kelly Haggerty. I'm just listening in, but thank you so much.
Okay, and last up, at least on my screen is Chris Bernard.
Good evening, everyone. Board of Education member just here to support the Board of Education budget. If there's any questions I can answer that no one else can, which is hard to believe. I'm here for that.
Okay, thank you very much. So Mark, that appears to be everybody that's on my screen. If there's anybody I missed, please pipe up.
Steve Fish, do we get, I have a Steve Fish. Linda sorry looking at to figure out who that was okay thank you got it. All right, that looks like it. I guess I would open up to the Board of Finance members if they want to make any comments or questions to any of the participants here. Okay, hearing none that's that's pretty quick. Go ahead, Joanne. You're on mute. You're on mute, so.
I guess I did just want to follow-up to, and I apologize, I think you said his first name was Eric, who is the RAM, yes. I, you know, listen to what you said and definitely take it in. I understand that you're trying to present a budget to all of the towns that will keep things stable, keep the quality of education high for RAM. You know, I was pleased when my students went there. It's just, it's kind of tough to look at a budget like that. And this is just questions, you know, and see that this is a year that the bond is getting reduced
so tremendously, you know, up to the point of a million and a half. And then with the other cuts that are made to the budget, I jotted some notes. I believe it's, you know, it's well over 2,000,000 there. And so we're always diligent with our own Andover Elementary School and the town here in Andover that, you know, I'm never afraid to bring a voice that even though it looks on paper, that it is a decrease in the RAM budget of the $3.75 or maybe you said, don't know what I jotted, but there's just, this is the year with the level of enrollment going down so hugely to really dig into that and maybe get that budget a little bit down fiscally responsible to more at the level of where the enrollment is rather than okay we lost that bonding so now we're back loading it with expenses. I can understand what you say about the capital budget and trying to keep it steady to improve every year but you know I know that there's been some talk and just what I listen and try to hear, you know, because I definitely never like to speak without doing all my homework, but you know, the bottom line is a decrease, but there was a chance to really dig into that RAM budget this year and maybe the towns would have benefited
along with the 600,000 that RAM is keeping from this year's budget. So on top of what you're asking the towns to pass, You know, have you considered that maybe this would be the year that RAM could get back a little bit and then the towns with so much work and all of them could benefit. And I don't expect you to answer for everybody, but kind of just from the Andover angle.
Yeah. And I will point out that I started on the Ram Board event this past October. So I don't have that much background other than when I was on the Andover Board of Finance, I did liaison with the RAM Board event. And what they did was, you are absolutely correct, the bond dropped 1.4 something million dollars this year. And the Board of Ed had planned on that because the teachers at RAM were making and are making significantly less money than surrounding towns or even within towns. The teachers at RAM, I'm told, make less than the teachers at Andover Elementary. And so realizing that this bond was being cut in half, that there was a plan with the new teachers union contract coming in at the same time to try to do right by the faculty at RAM. And that's what ended up taking up the lion's share of the reduction that we got due to debt retirement. And that was planned on. The idea was if we had done right by the teachers under a regular year,
then taxes would have gone up. So the idea was, well, okay, let's wait until the bomb drops off, and then do that. And now the taxpayers are feeling what they would normally feel. You can agree with that or not agree with that, but that is the explanation of what happened there. Now, as far as money held back by the board of Ed, it's a similar situation to what the towns do. If the towns have a little bit of surplus left at the end of their fiscal year, they don't write checks back to the taxpayers. Instead, that money is kept for a very good reason. And that is that the towns have long standing and far reaching financial challenges that will have to be addressed. Your roads and bridges, and you could talk to Eric Anderson about a variety of challenges coming up for the town. So you keep that money back so that you can sort of save up to take care of these future needs. And even though RAM is just 20 years old, there are certain challenges coming up for RAM that we would like to be ready for. So there's things with the athletic fields, not turf or anything, but fixes that need to be done. We're going to eventually need a new roof. We're gonna need eventually boilers and all of those types of things. And we would like to be as prepared as we can be. And so the rule from the state is that the town's, the board of ed can hold back up to 2%
of the budget that is surplus. And so this year, we've elected to do so. Last year, we elected not to do so, and returned, I'm told, and returned about $750,000 to the towns. And I think the towns see that and say, well, why don't you give all the money back every year? And the reason is that just like the towns, the school systems have things to save up for as well. And rather than put that into future tax increases, or I should say future budget increases, or future bonding, our preference would be to save up for these various things we'd like to do. It's a philosophical question. And to my mind, that's where we're headed at this point.
Eric, one follow-up. I totally understand. I do understand the need to keep some of the funds and use it in areas that you would have put in the budget. Yeah, so my overall point just so thank you for you know explaining that well and I do do understand there's a lots of needs with keeping buildings going. I guess one of the years I just feel like year after year and maybe you know there's it tends to be in me I'm on the board this year like you but I've been to two years of meetings prior of everything in the town so that I learned it all before I come on and speak cause I don't think it's fair not to. I think, you know, I should do my homework. So I believe like you said that this, it just, I think maybe some people were thinking maybe this would be the year just with the perfect storm of enrollments going down so low in the bond, know, that some of the money, maybe not the 1.22 decrease, maybe it would have come up a little bit. You know kind of I'm you're a big picture person too. Think one of the years the towns maybe were so thank you. You've done a wonderful job explaining it. Mean everyone's going to have their opinions.
I do see all sides of it, but it just would have been helpful. So thank you for taking the time to explain it. And
your question is a reasonable one. And these are philosophical things. Do we return money now? Do we save money for later? These are questions to be struggled with. And so I'm only telling you this is where we are now and how we're looking at things, I do sympathize with the people that say hey look the, the, the, enrollment, the enrollment keeps going down but the budget does not. And I understand that and it's a reasonable thing to be questioning. And, you know, all I can say is as representing the people of Andover, within the board I'm more leaning towards watching budget as a, as, as a board member just because that's experience I had in Andover that I remain sensitive to what you're saying. And, you know, I'm not defiant at all about what you just said, I'm glad you said it. And, you know, we'll see how things go, you know, in over the next couple of years. Thank you.
Thanks, Eric. Thanks, Joanne. Any further questions or input from the board? So just so that you know, Celeste Willard also joined this meeting. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, Celeste, do you have any input for the public hearing? No comment at this time. Thanks, Mark. Okay, thanks.
I think we've heard from everybody, so unless anybody has anything additional to add from the board, I think we've pulled all members of the public. I'd like to thank everybody for participation. Again, just reminding everyone that there are other ways to get your comments and input into the Board of Finance through BudgetAndoverCT dot org email address by contacting any of us, We appreciate your input. And I guess I'll entertain any move motion from the board members to adjourn this public hearing. A motion. I'll make a motion. Oh, go ahead.
Right, Kurt made a motion to adjourn the public hearing. Do we have a second? I'll second. Okay, Diane seconds. Any discussion? Okay, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Okay, I guess that'll do it this meeting is adjourned thank you everybody for your participation appreciate it. We are going to follow on from this meeting, the special meeting for the budget workshop for the Board of Finance, so those of you who would like to stay for that you're of course welcome Eric are you just going to continue the recording or are you going to stop and restart.
Eric No, my intention was just to keep the recording going. Eric Okay that's fine
Okay, so I will call to order this. 04/13/2022 meeting special budget meeting of the Board of Finance, the town of Andover. First off, we'll say the pledge of allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. I'm just going to open with a couple of housekeeping comments before we move on with our agenda. As I mentioned in the last meeting, I'm going to have to step out in a couple minutes here because of a family obligation. Again, I apologize, I didn't foresee this, but I think that, I will be following up and reviewing the meeting later by video I apologize for not being able to probably continue to the end depending on how quick this goes but I don't think it's going to go that quick Anybody who wants to again participate in the public speak is welcome to do so, but I do ask that we keep this to the to fairly close to the point, the topic being the town of Andover budget, which includes of course the ram budget and the yes budget the ram budget is a separate issue it's generally taken care of through separate separate meetings we did have some clarification from Eric there on the topic that a question that occurred in one of the other meetings, but we would like to keep this to the to the end over part of the budget that we have control here with the Board of Finance if we could during this meeting. Also, I'm just going to make a comment about the correspondence
part of the agenda. I know we're not there yet and we should discuss this during the correspondence part of the agenda, which is item four, but I won't be here, but I think you all received a copy of the correspondence from Eric reviewing the account attorneys opinion regarding the Board of Finance responsibility and roles. So you know that probably should be reviewed if anybody has any questions about it. That being said, I guess we'll move on to agenda item number two which is public speak. I think after that I will probably have to hand the meeting over to to Diane. So Eric, do want to poll public for us?
Certainly. I'll go around the room again. First up, Jerry Cremay.
Yeah. I'd like to thank you, Mark, for getting that read up on the on the town charter from the attorney. I found it was a little confusing to me, and that's why I sent you that email. Thank you so much for clearing that up. I appreciate that. And I hope I didn't cause you any upset, but that wasn't my intention. I do support I do support just do support you, and I support the town and our budget. We have to take care of what we have to take care of. Our elementary school needs very little right now, and we're not asking for a lot. We do have we will answer any questions if you have any. And, thank you again for this opportunity,
And I appreciate your efforts that you put into it, Mark. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, just yeah, no problem at all. And you know, the charter is not as clearly written as it could be written right on there, maybe could have been a little more explicit and then maybe one of the reasons the board of selectman is a plug are looking for members for a charter revision. I don't know how active that would be but that is that is something that would I think would be ripe for consider consideration
in terms of clarification. Board members are not allowed to be on that committee, correct?
Because I think you're a member of power of Andover, you could probably be a member of that committee. Actually
there's very specific roles. It's Oh like state, the state not our own internal charter. So there can I believe only be one person that's either an employee or a board or commission member on that charter? So it is fairly restrictive.
Really okay interesting wouldn't have guessed that but it does make sense in some ways centralize the power yeah okay Alright. Next up again, Jenny Morell. All set. Thank you. Okay. Superintendent Bruno.
Thanks, Eric. We sound redundant because it's the same meeting night. But I would just remind the Board of Finance that we've gotten a lot of support at our public forum and at the public forum that took place minutes before this one. I'm hoping that the board of finance will consider the fact that there's a has been a great deal of support for the board of education budget. And the seven zero vote of the board of ed showed just that. And the members of the public who attended our six sessions were also very much in favor and supportive of our budget. So I would just like the Board of Finance to realize that we do have a lot of support for the work that we've done in creating that budget. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. Next up, Kelly Hagerty.
Sorry, couldn't unmute. I'm just listening. Thank you. Okay, fair enough. And again, Celeste Willard.
Thanks, Eric. I'm just, you know, I'm here just to support the Board of Education budget. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. And Mark that appears to be all the members of the public that are on the meeting.
Okay, very good. Thank you, Eric. Thank you again, members of the public and Board of Ed and our superintendent and all who participated. I'm going to hand the meeting over to Diane. We are going to enter into the budget workshop for the fiscal year where the Board of Finance will review the budget line items discuss the budget as it stands, we will work on making any revisions to the budget, and ultimately present a recommended budget to the town to the town meeting to be voted on there. So there could well be a lot of work ahead of us certainly done a lot of review up until now. So Dan, I'm going to hand it over to you. I'm going to hang up here for a second or two, but then I will be gone. Again, I appreciate everyone's support here and I would suggest probably going through the each board member and just kind of reviewing if there's any specific changes we Eric did surprise some changes. And answered some questions so that we may want to follow down, but I leave it to you you're as intimately knowledgeable about this as anyone at this point, having gone through line by line by line so appreciate the effort there.
Just want to ask him if he's available next week. I know that originally you weren't available that's all. Yeah,
no, I'm not going to be. No, I don't think during the time. Mean, if I can join remotely, will try, but I would give that less than a 30% chance right now. Okay, all right, thank you. Yeah, thanks.
And one of the questions the board asked me was what they actually have to put on and when they when you have to make a final decision before the public meeting which the board of selectmen has scheduled for the fourth. And the answer is you could do it at your meeting on the twenty seventh that gives the town enough time to publish and have copies available for the public.
Okay, so we have to fully approve the budget to go forward by the twenty seventh, we can do it next week or we can do it. Week that is correct. Okay, that's helpful. Thanks, Eric. Okay, because we're always down to the wire. I just wanted to go through, does anybody have any questions? I have a couple of questions to ask Eric, but before I go, does anybody have any questions on the budget spreadsheet that we have so far?
And I just have, I will say one thing just because it got brought up to me when I was speaking with the town attorney. And I just kind of point this out I don't think this is really a change or a or a question. It's just more for everybody's information in case it comes up again. You were to look at the AES budget line item, there is column G list a department request and column J is titled the twenty twenty two-twenty twenty three Board of Selectmen approved request. Values are different, but I think it's important to note that that is not a Board of Selectmen number that is a Board of Education number and that was a little confusing to you know the town of attorney just. Was confusing he just wanted clarification on that he wanted to make sure it wasn't something that the Board of Selectmen or that we had changed, but that 400000122787 was a Board of Education approved request. So, you know, it's almost like we need a footnote on that column header that says, you know, the RAM budget and the AES budget are not Board of Selectmen numbers, those are Board of Education numbers for RAM and Board of Education numbers for the for AES. Just everybody's just so that there's aware that Board of Finance has not made any recommendation or any change the Board of Selectmen hasn't made any recommendation or change. It's just a difference probably from the initial number from the school versus what the Board of Education did approve at their meeting, so there's nothing odd going on there. Column J has got the board of Ed approved values there, but it is different than the quote department request. It's a little wonky the way it shows in that spreadsheet,
but there isn't anything you know, weird going on and it's not an incorrect number. What's in there is what the board of that approved. Just disappointed in that, I decided to go clarify that for Tom. From what I understand,
the request and the board of ed approved budget items were the same. So why is the number different on the request
column? Because when the board of selectmen passed their budget on to the board of finance, There was no final budget for the Board of Education. So that was simply a placeholder and an educated guess as to what the Board of Education's budget would be. So the fault for that lies with me, not with the board of education with anybody else, but I didn't have a number to put in there when the board of selectmen had to send their budget on to you all.
So, I'm going to ask this question. Is there anything wrong with changing that number to what it actually should have been so they're the same?
I would say it probably makes sense at this point. There's no reason we couldn't. I don't think we could prior to the meeting because we had voted to pass this on to the, you know, to the to this budget hearing, and we needed to keep that that intact. But I would say now that we could change that Eric you disagree for any reason.
Inherently, I don't. But, no, I, don't see any reason why that couldn't be changed.
Because it's misleading. I get it. It's very confusing and I don't think a note would just make more confusion. I just think what they requested and what got passed through the board of select is the same number,
really. Yeah, yeah, you could just call it that. I think I think it would be helped to avoid any confusion to change that. We pencil that change in or make that change and you know again it might be. We're gonna have to play it by year but if there's controversial things about any given line item here where the board may or may not agree, we probably need to vote on them individually. Know, otherwise we could probably make those routine changes as a board and then vote on them as a whole.
I would rather see the numbers being what they actually were. Yeah.
Because they didn't request that number. That's not the number that was requested by the board a it. So that was not the department request.
It was like you said, it was a placeholder at the time. Were trying to work. Diane, we're talking about the the main spreadsheet that we look at. Right? With the one line? Yes. Right. Right. So So she's talking about line six eighty fives
under the fiscal year twenty twenty two twenty three department request, changing that to match what was in the board of selectmen approved request. And we can certainly do that. In fact, I just made that change on my copy, and we'll use that going forward. Okay. Makes sense.
Oh, it's on my spreadsheet. Okay. All right. Anybody else have any other questions on this?
I mean, I'm definitely gonna have questions. I just don't wanna be the first one, you know, so anybody that has things, you know, go ahead. You mean questions on the whole thing?
Well, just on any line item again. Mean, I have a couple questions at the revenue tab, I don't wanna I wanna do the expenses first if we can. Anybody has any clarification or anything that they're concerned with on? We didn't make much change. We just kind of tweaked it updated numbers to be more realistic with the gas and oil prices and things like that, electricity.
I will, when you're done, Diane, I'll ask a question too. Okay
Diane do you want to discuss the revenue tab because there's a couple things on there you know that I think probably should be discussed although I don't necessarily know whether we're going to be able to make an intelligent decision tonight.
Me ask my question on the revenue tab. One of the things I brought up is that we didn't have the MRSA revenue sharing grant in there, and we've received to date $3,179 But did you mean in your email, Eric, because I didn't follow that, that we're not getting that grant going forward? We are not getting that grant. That is not money
that doesn't necessarily look like the state's actually going to give us what they said they were going to give us in the last budget.
So my request would be is to add that number back into the spreadsheet for the historical factor. So we can show cause we actually budgeted $20,000 this year for that. And to show that we've only gotten 3,000 and that for 2023, we're gonna budget zero. So we can clearly show that.
Okay. That is at least in my version of the budget that's there. That is line twenty six zero nine zero zero dash two two seven. MRSA revenue sharing.
But that's not the account number I have. On the last revenue report that we got in a for finance meeting, I have the account numbers 100Dash20Dash0100Dash227. But
so I don't know what the correct number is. That's what I'm saying. Right.
I took that off the revenue report that Sherry gave us.
Right. So we need to to line it up with existing revenue. Yeah.
So just let's make sure that the account number is correct. Okay. I see it there now. I didn't see it because I was looking by account number. Okay. Okay. And
then I was going to ask about the historic document grant for $5,500. Correct. That needs to be added still?
So that does, if that's what the, so I only got really one reply back from the commission on that. I mean, the two alternatives are keeping that out of the budget, You know, because it's, it's a specific thing in keeping the historic preservation line at a thousand dollars or bumping that that up to $6,500 and adding the grant into the revenues tab. Either one is,
I don't care It's what we're important for us to know what the expenses are that we pay for historic preservation. So if you're telling me a thousand dollars isn't the true expense number, we should be correcting that and putting the grant in on the revenue side for $5,500 And I have no idea what we've paid, what we spent on historic document preservation.
Right. My only concern with that is we usually get that money very late in the year. In fact, we just got it. And without that, it looks like it's a much bigger line item and I don't want that money spent until we have the money, you know, coming in from the document fund to that, if that makes sense.
Right. But we shouldn't be mixing revenue and expenses Because otherwise you can never track your expenses. They are separate items. You don't offset one with the other. We can certainly add it. Yep. Yeah, it's been a practice that we need to clean up. So that was that. My other question is this investment interest account. I'm probably off a line on you I have it online 26.
It's That's line 27. And so I'll be perfectly honest with you. I've reached out to the town's auditor because I can't figure it out because, you know, if you go back to the last time we had an audit, the last two times there was considerable money in there that was credited to the investment interest. But the interest rate that we're getting from the bank is basically the same as it is today. And I look at it and say okay if we're running an average of $3,000,000 on a day to day basis in the bank just because our revenues lag our lead our expenses then if you do the math, we're getting 0.1% interest, which should get somewhere around $3,000 a year, which seems to be what we're getting. So what I can't figure out is how we could possibly have gotten 37,000 or 52,000 in that in the past. So I feel like I'm missing something there. Yeah, last fiscal year, it's only $6,100
Right, but that's not the audit. You know, Right. You know. Is getting, is he adding from the different columns that we're adding? That's what I don't know. Okay.
I'm not willing to budget $40,000 unless I know what we got last fiscal year and where we are year to date. It absolutely We only have $2,400 so that's number on that. So that is something we need to finalize this revenue piece.
Correct. And I've also asked him for, you know, his best guess of what a final number is that we could use from fund balance, You know, but I do not have that from him and they do not have an explanation of the investment interest line. I've asked but I haven't gotten a response yet.
That's the only questions I have. Anybody else have some questions you want to go through?
I guess kind of a, oh, sorry. Go ahead. Comment and a question. Think, you know, we're all going to be challenged with looking at this and having a number of questions and decisions to make going forward. So along with Diane, I just want to make sure that we know exactly what the revenue side is, what we're bringing in versus the spending so that we know exactly what increase. Looking at your spreadsheet, we're up the final number of increased spending, increased spending by taxation. It's all relevant to knowing those numbers that Diane brought up. Think, another thing that was retired this year having to do with the school, think is there was a small, well, small to the town, but wasn't it like $93,000 that bond is no longer. Right, so that went We're
kind of doing the same thing, you know, we found things to spend the money on somewhere else. So that's 93,000 there that is gone. So that's an increase in spending because we're not using it for that. So those are my concerns. I'm trying to latch on to the exact questions that I have. And then moving forward, I guess I want to review with Eric just the things. Again, there's going to be so many decisions to be made. There's going to be a big long process. There's going to be town meetings and opinions. But, you know, you had given us we had one meeting where we were talking about where if we had to cut a few things, what the wish list was. Do you remember what date that was that you sent to us, Eric?
Was that, it wasn't last two meetings ago, maybe? That would have been two meetings ago. You requested what were the essentially the five biggest contributors to the budget increase and I supplied that to the board.
Right, yep, so I'll dig that up, know, I'm not and I remember it in my head, but again, I like to make intelligent statements and have things to back up. Am I allowed to ask Valerie a question at this point? We've been going back and I just, I had one question I was gonna ask her about an item. I don't know if that's allowed.
I don't have a problem. We're discussing the whole budget, so.
Hi, Valerie. Hi, Maria. I apologize for not It's just been busy at work and preparing for meetings, but just the one question that I had for you is, well, I'll ask this first. The new software system that you're using for the student database that we brought up, was that funded in this year's budget current, or was it money that was just left over? It's it's not a it's just a information seeker.
So it's gonna replace the PowerSchool is gonna replace what was called Tyler SIS. We had had Tyler SIS for a number of years, and the reason why they had chosen that software system was because at the time, Julian, it was very inexpensive. They kinda gave them a deal they couldn't say no to. And it has not been the most effective and efficient, but they kept it because the price was right. The price is no longer right. And Or the Tyler one. Right. Yeah. About eighteen months ago, we realized that power school, which I'm sure you've heard of because I know you work in an office at a school, it is universal. And so by going with the power school, it's gonna wind up not being in the long run an increase to add that because the price of Tyler had gone up. So it's really going to be a wash. The only difference this year was Christina Frazier,
who is someone that does a lot of tech for us. Mhmm. Mhmm. She needs to be trained so that she's our expert, and that was the only cost to us this school year. From here moving forward, it should it should definitely not be an increase of cost for us. And
like a a charge on something like that, is it 60,000 or I mean, you do you have a number and I just don't even remember. No. I don't have that number in front of me, but those generally are about 10,000 to do those.
I can look that up. Was that the question you were gonna email me? Was. And and I really was gonna do my own research. That's one of them. I'll I'll follow-up with the other. Was I gonna do my research if I follow it. Tomorrow,
Joanne, I will send you the cost of what Tyler was versus PowerSchool.
Okay. So it was sort of just a wash because you just Yeah. Decided to end. No. It's it's a great system. I understand. I just never remembered because I do know it, you know, the different, I'm like, I never remembered. So I wanted to see what the cost was. The secondary question, I think we had brought up at one of our board of finance meetings, so I appreciate it. You know, when it comes to your budget, you know, is very well laid out as far as you can read it and understand it, but I know that some of the items in there are funded by grants. Did we ever is that all transparent this year? Like, say, a teacher salary line? I think Diane was getting at one of the meetings. You have the definite salary line. Did we ever show what part and how much There's is
no there's nothing that appears in the general fund budget that is also something that is in a grant. So, you know, for example, if there is a percentage of a salary that is taken out of like, for example, the school readiness grant, the smart start, those are the preschool grants. Mhmm. So when you look at our general fund budget, you see zero in there. Our preschool expenses, we don't have preschool expenses because those are covered. So no, we don't put it in the budget and then take it out of a grant. If it's in a grant, it's not in the budget. Gotcha. So it so is
that the I have a question because so the teacher salary line is not the total expensive teacher salary, it's being offset by grants. So I had asked Sherry to provide me with the backup detail of how that number is calculated.
So what do you mean? You're asking her to show you
what the typical salaries are and what the grants are that go against it to to match them because you have a net number in your sheet, not the gross number. He wants to be on the camera. He's really wanting to be on the camera, sorry. She said she was going to get that for me, I haven't gotten it yet.
I will ask her about what it is she was putting together for you. That was the The question from Joanne the question from Joanne about whether or not it appears in both. It it it there is no double dip there. It it if it's a grant item, it appears in the grants.
And just just wanna know what the true expense is too. Yeah. Guess that's what I was thinking. So the bottom line of your budget, the $4,000,001.02, I think it's $1.02 2. Again, I don't have it right there, but that is really higher because we could add grants in. So the total budget to run the school is higher than that or no? We have expenses
that aren't in that. Yes, that's accurate to say. I think I was just, you know, coming to terms with all of that and seeing what's on the spreadsheet. And I'm thinking, I've been thinking that's the total budget, including everything, like Diane said, whatever's covered by a grant, that's what it takes to. So yeah, it would be nice to see the follow-up to see what the total number comes to including the grants. So if the town taxation or whatever is covering that much, you know, I know that grants are great and that you get them and they're used, you know, for whatever good purpose, but I don't know if there's like 500,000 extra. I probably not, right? You guys have permission for that though.
Throw it out there. If you look in and I'll send it to you again. But if you look in the PowerPoint that we did during the sessions I know went to a lot of them, so I I will find it. So there's a slide in there that will list for you the grants. Okay. Because what happens is is there's entitlement grants, and those are done fairly regularly. You you usually get them with the exception of the title one grant we didn't get, and then title four. And then there's competitive grants. And in the eGrant system, they're broken down that way. There's ones that you can almost always count on, and there are some that you have to apply for. And those offset expenditures that aren't in in those other grants in the title grants and the IDEA
grants. And I yeah, I know what and I understand the titles and all of that. So that's that is good. Will refresh on that Valerie.
Got an orange an orange chart in there that tells you what those grants are.
Okay. Alright. No. Sounds good. Just wondering yeah. And I will. I'll look at the amounts and and I know you sent us all the information and we've reviewed it, but it's, you know, when it's all coming together and you're here, so I appreciate that answer.
One other question I have Eric before I make the final decision on the budget. I need we need updated fund balances.
So, okay. Yeah, Sherry had been supposed to supply those.
Waiting on those because, you know, we're trying to put a lot of money into these funds and before I can make a decision, I need to know how much are we gonna have in there now? Anybody else have any other questions?
You know, I have to admit, I have them in hard copy. I'm not sure it'll do you much good. I can read them out if you wanna write them down.
No. You're asking an old person like me to, we need in writing. Understood. You're on mute. You're on mute. Me? No, Joanne, she's on. Okay, now she's off. Too much there.
Josh is asking, I know that we had the presentation of the you know, expenses for the year and their budget and I have it printed out. As we all know, we talked about, you know, with kids in schools and the mental health situation of coming out of the pandemic. So we definitely reviewed it. My only question is, do we, I know that's in the town side of the budget, do we need to vote on that separately? Is that all going in? I know we had that presentation early on our
The number is in the spreadsheet. Right. You know, with the increase for the new year. It's in there. I don't think we have to vote on it separately. I think the request from the board of select a meeting on Monday for capital, I think that's a whole separate issue. Yeah. Right. Budget. So.
And I think it's in the nineties this year. Is that right, Eric? Did it go up to nine? I mean, again, this is memory from- It was a 3.94%
increase. Ask me why that's burned into my brain, but it is. Yeah.
No, I'm just making sure. I'm trying to, you know, because I think I thought there was gonna be more public, so I thought I'd be doing a lot of listening. So we'll definitely get the questions going, you know, in reviewing. So Eric, on the revenue sheet where it shows the mill rate, can we just review or do we think that's something that's still got to, we have to make sure that we get the figures correct so that we can calculate the exact increase in spending total with this, you know, we know exactly what the school is, but the town side and then the proposed mill rate, the proposed, you know, by sending this through, how much of a increase it would be?
Right. We need to figure out the revenue piece. So we have those two questions. So that's just revenue items So we can get that calculation correct. And then we should be pretty close to a solid mill rate.
Are we thinking, and I don't want to be the only one speaking, I know I'm gonna shut up after a while, you know, quiet down, not shut up after a while, but does the board think it's more productive to have a shorter meeting tonight, come back with some motions or whatever we think next week, and then take some action or not take action before sending it forward. I mean, I'm sort of leaning to that, know, happy to make motions in the future, but kind of want to see the whole thing. I
would think we have some pieces of missing information. This is how I'm thinking. Yes. I always think we get that information and then maybe next week we put the final numbers in, make whatever motions we need to make Mhmm. And finalize the numbers and get comfortable with that. And then we can either approve it next week or the week after, depending on how much more questions we may have. Does anybody have wanna do it any differently or want to do anything tonight or I have 08:00 so this would be an early meeting. Know, know that's what. So what the heck is that work tomorrow?
I mean, you know the budget Short of those two revenue lines. I mean the the first question is are you happy as a board with the spending the way it is?
Well, that's why we need to discuss those two numbers. Board of finance like that's what we're Diane and I are kind of putting out there. Right.
I mean if everybody wants to go around again and give their general opinion about where we are I mean I can start I say right now.
I just like, it felt to me a little bit like Eric might've wanted us to make a decision tonight and that's what we're saying, Eric. I would feel comfortable thinking about it. We, yeah, we've gone to many meetings. I mean, I flooded myself with meetings, but what was your second point? I'm sorry, I did cut you off. You said we know what it is, what do we want to do?
I mean, I'm not, I mean, this is a board of finance driven procedure. My job is to give you what you want. Various different boards have asked for more or less or different things and whatever it is you want and whatever format you want to present it in, I'm here to support you. So, understand you have those two items that you want a better number for the things. Want a better number for to. I mean, I'm so Revenue we know is there's only going to be a couple things that are potentially going to be an issue that is how much fund balance we actually have available, know, and what that investment interest line actually
encompasses and what that number should be. So, the good news is we know from the auditor that it's, he's a pretty conservative guy. So, it's pretty safe to say, you know, we're going to be able to use at least a $100,000 out of fund balance. So, I don't think that number is going to go down. If anything, that number will go up. The question becomes, you know, so now we're looking at basically, you know, a 35,000, $37,000 fluctuation in the budget based on what that investment interest line really is likely to be. So that's where we're at. So, you know, we know that, you know, we're looking at somewhere between a $510,000 increase, you know, in a $540,000 increase, that's your ballpark. And then the question just becomes, is that something you're comfortable putting before the electorate or are there changes you want to make? That's all I got to say.
And then, you know we do have to factor in you know the spending that we're going to have going forward for the town like with those things that have been retired. So you're right it's more spending but we must have used up because you're saying we're only putting forward $5.10, but really if we added in the 90,000 that we don't have to pay this year. So that was my only point. Make a good point. We need, you know, now I feel like we've done all of our homework, we've heard from everybody.
I have one quick question before I lose my thought. Can I just interrupt you? Yeah, of course. We heard Eric saying that the RAM budget down was down 225,000 for Andover and our numbers 92. Right.
So what they're not saying is last year they returned to the town's money from the budget. So what are, last year we, we, the budget line item we put in was what we're actually was with that money subtracted essentially.
But he said it was $2.25 plus $8,000 in excess, you know, that excess credit. Right. Oh, where did that $2.25 come from? Because it's not even close to that. Because he's not accounting for the $130,000
for whatever that the town got back from Ram last year. In other words, the budget number for Ram last year would have been higher if they hadn't given back money, but since they gave that money by just reducing our payments, then that's what we put in for a number for Rams last year. Last year's Ram number would have been bigger, except they gave us money back. If that makes sense.
Well, last year we had a decrease of $108,000 this year, it's only $92,000 from the previous year.
Right. But see their budget went up last year. Right. The only reason we saw right money back.
Okay. So, because I confused me with that to 25. Right. On mute Joanne.
Was the number changed after they gave it back. Is that what you mean or you knew it was, you know what I mean we start the budget year with a certain number.
So, so let's let's say the Ram Board of Ed's budget was $5,000,000 Yep. But they agreed from the previous year to put $1,000,000 back, you know, return that to the town. So, but they're returning it to the town in the next fiscal year in the year you're budgeting. So what we, as a town see is not $5,000,000 We see $4,000,000 which is what we put in the budget, just like our budgeted amount in this budget. If you look in, you know, in the, what we budget for Ram, we've subtracted the $8,000 that we're going to get back from that budget.
Diane, is that a little murky that that's, see, I mean,
So the thing is I got confused because Yeah. I was hearing Eric say that the difference was $225,000 less this year. And in my mind, it is only $92,000 from what we paid last year. I'm just looking at what we have to pay out of our pockets. It's not $225,000 Yes, it's only $92,000
Correct. I'm following you and my question is only asking, I mean, it seems like there's a document that's prepared at the beginning of the year and we know what we're gonna pay. Kind of makes me feel the same way of what you talk about all the time with Andover expenses. I would rather see what was budgeted than we got it back because it's too different. But again, I don't understand what you all do. Maybe I'm being naive. We budget,
if they're giving us credit for excess funds or whatever, only like what we ever pay out to them. They
limit the money, they just bill us less money basically. Right, and I get that. I mean, I listened to their things at the hearing. So when he talks about the two twenty five, they actually cut expense, you know, between the bond and some things that they're paying less for this year going forward, 2223, they've made and because I have another sheet from going to their meeting it's over $2,000,000 but we're only seeing that little bit that he said. Yeah, that's a different. I
was confused because I was thinking he was telling us that Andover's quote this year was $225,000
less than last year. And it's not. I just wanna make sure what we see like at the presentations and what the 17% for Andover is, is documented there. I don't wanna hear that, okay, they gave us a blah, last month they gave us 20, so that number's not real to me. I'd rather see, I'm reminding
myself of you a little bit. So this number should be the number that of, RAM Board of Ed approved on April 4, was it? That they had their meeting that they approved it? Yeah. That should be the final approved number there. Yes, we still have to go through referendum. So, we don't know what the final number is gonna be yet, but this is the most final approved number.
Right. And that number is comprised of three things that contribute to it. Ram operating Andover's portion of the Ram operating budget. Ram's capital budget, the money Andover is getting back from their excess you know all three of those things get wrapped into the one single number for the ram budget because that's essentially what goes into our budget.
My apologies, Eric. I thought you took it upon yourself to deduct things from it based on what you got back. I wasn't under, thank you.
Well, mean, I did get out my calculator and do the math.
So did I to get the two don't list the bottom line for the town,
they list those three items and you just sum them up and that's what you get. Course, of course, I wasn't understanding what you were saying the first time.
Thank you. Sorry for the delay with my question. Make in last year was the same thing.
Had an operating budget, a capital budget, and an amount returned to the town from the unexpended fund balance. And you sum those three things up. And that is what is in the budget for last year. And that's, that's basically what we pay to ram in our levies.
Those add up to what our levy payments are. Yeah, I forgot that they do put it in their budget. They do, they have that third. I just focus on the two, but they definitely do. My apologies, but I feel better now. Thank you. No worries.
Anybody else have any other questions? I mean, now we don't have enough information to do anything, if anybody has any other questions we need to clear up.
I have one Diane. Go ahead Louise. Those two adjustments that we're waiting for. What type of an impact is that going to make on that proposed 33 mill rate? Positive rate. That might go up but.
So depends. So the investment increase could potentially, that would equate to about a 0.1 increase if that would set to, you know, because it's about 300,000 per one mil. So, you know, that could drop revenue by, you know, 30 something thousand dollars. So worst case scenario that that would have about a point one mil increase. And then the use of fund balance presuming that in you as a board may not decide to use more than a 100,000 in fund balance, even if there's more available that that's a decision you have to make. You know, that could potentially lower the mill rate, but I don't think that's going to be, it's not going to be a huge, you know I could see maybe another 0.1 mil reduction from additional use of fund balance. So, that would be my guess but you know I don't know. Okay
and the reason is basically at the end of last year and at the end of the previous year as a board, what the decision that was made was to transfer money from the funds from line items that run it under bound or underfunded into capital projects, namely tree work, think was the one we funded the most. So that's, that's part of the reason why there's less money available in the fund balance because we you essentially pre spent some of that money last year to increase the capital funds.
Okay, and didn't we also decide last year just to it was just a little bit higher. So, actually overpaid a little bit last year and that is that correct? And how is that being reflected in here?
It is not being reflected in this I gave you it basically is going to reduce the budget about 0.1 mil the final budget or the final, you know, it's, it's still going to be the same mill rate, but the taxpayers will pay roughly 0.1 mil less because of overpayment from last year.
So it won't be in the spreadsheet. It'll be calculated on when you send out the new, bills.
Yes. And the reason is it's kind of complicated because you have to, once you figure out what the mill rate is this year, you know, then you have to ratio basically the mill rate this year to the mill rate last year to figure out what the 0.12 mill difference last year equates to in this year's mill rate, but it will be about 0.1 mil. Okay, thanks. Diane, I have a question. Who
is, who is going to provide us the numbers that we don't have, to make our, you know, to come to a consensus and make our final decision? So what numbers are we? Yeah, but you'd mentioned there's
some numbers that we still need to get. So we have two revenue items which we need by next week. So, Eric has a call into the auditor now. Okay.
But, you know, I honestly don't know because they gave us yesterday. We got an enormous dump request for information from the auditor that it's gonna take us several days just to compile everything they've asked for. You know?
So What what do we do in the meantime? What? What do we what do we do in the meantime?
If so this is what I would do. So if we don't have that investment interest clarified by next week, then I can't support a revenue budget item of $40,000 when we only according to this, we've only collected $6,000 last year and 2,000 $2,400 this year. So we'd have to cut that number down to, you know, $5,000, you know. Certainly be a lot safer to do that. Right.
So if we don't have that, and then we're going to add back in that $5,500 for the historic document grant. And we just kind of make sure that the expenses are right on the front side on the first tab for the document preservation. Because it's an right now the document preservation expenses are being offset by that grant. So the expense number that we see in our expense sheet is net of income. Need to show the whole expense and then put the revenue on the revenue tab. Okay, thank you.
You know, just to further my point, we're kind of ahead of the curve, Kirk, is the way I feel. So that's why for me personally, and you know, I just really want those numbers that I want to have. Like, I know that I have a few days that I can really look at everything that we've gathered. I can intelligently, you know, think of how I feel about everything and just even if next week is a half an hour meeting, know, we're still ahead of it a little bit in my. So that's why I'm requesting maybe just all of us looking at it one more time and Joanne,
I agree a 100%. I'm still trying to catch up from my absence. Right. There's a lot of questions still, so I think we should, you know, we're you know, moving all over the place tonight on things that we don't really can't have don't even have an answer for. So, you know, if we gotta use the next two weeks in a row, let's use the next two weeks in a row so we make a make a, you know, an informed
decision. I'm all for that. Yeah, that's that's what I really want to see a final spreadsheet all updated with all the final numbers in there. And then we can go through and make whatever motions or cuts we need to make and, and then get a budget preliminary passed for the annual town meeting.
Okay, but you all know right now that this budget, it might move the final total by taxation point one or point two, but it's not gonna move it that much more than that. So, I mean, the real question is are With you
all due, Eric, understand that, but we need to digest it. We get exactly what you're saying. I think we all, and I'm so sorry to interrupt you, that's not my style, but it's nothing you're saying, it's that with the important job that we have to do, I think we, because we have jobs, I devote a lot of time to the town too, I just want to make sure that I look over everything. It's nothing that's going to move a little or not. And that you guys, know, are working on it all the time. It's more the time to really digest it, that's all. Understood. And everything that we've gathered every single week, that's all.
Eric, can I ask you to send me an email with the timeline on how we the move was made with our treasurer and assistant treasurer and things like that? Just some dates and reasons why. I'm still trying to grasp that whole situation that I, you know, when I came back after my injury, you know, heard about it for first time at the meeting. I would like to see, you know, how that all transpired personally.
Okay. I mean, the board of selection just held meeting and made a decision.
That's really a board of selectmen meeting, and I'm sure it's a recording that if Kurt knew what day it was, they voted not to renew the shared agreement with the school for the shared financial office. I forgot what day it was. It was an April. Any reasons why or anything else?
No, I think they just said they didn't feel it was working and they just didn't wanna renew the agreement. Okay. I'll
research the selectments, Madison. You know, but it was, I can't remember. It wasn't the last meeting, but the meeting before.
It was March 24. Yeah, it was a special meeting and I think you're right, it's March 24.
Only because I happened to see it at the last minute and, you know, they put those things It was in done at a special meeting, that's right. That's a birthday in my family, so I just remember because I had a half a day, so I was able to zoom in.
Just just just just wondering because of it. There was, you know, we we sold this bill of goods to what they did to the town last year, you know, and then they have it fall apart basically in less than a year. It just it just blows my mind. Alright. I'll I'll research some more. Thank you.
So it was that day. Any other questions? Is everybody good with getting the updated information? Having time to digest this, we'll regroup next Wednesday, kind of dig in a little bit, see if we wanna make any motions and things like that. Does that work I'd for
be really happy with that. I appreciate it. I'm good with that. Kurt, Okay. Can I just say one thing? You said, I mean, this is two seconds. Feel sad having watched the meetings too and how much they had wanted. You know, you get your professional opinions. I'm not going to comment on why that's not my thing to do, but we did watch, you know, the hopes of that's what they wanted. So it is, it's sad that it didn't work out, know, because it was such a big point of emphasis but yeah I just wanted to say that to you because I know you weren't away. I mean you weren't around through that but thank you Diane for entertaining us being able to do this you know one more read through of everything and then make some motions next week.
Anybody else? Any last minute questions, thoughts? You guys good? Okay. Next on the genders correspondence I wasn't going to go through that correspondence basically I read the opinion that came back from Dennis O'Brien basically Dennis O'Brien said, we can make changes after the public hearing tonight and before the annual town meeting. So we have the power in the next two weeks to make whatever changes we want to the numbers and approve a final budget to go to the annual town meeting. And then of course it goes through the whole annual town meeting process and referendum and all that good stuff. So, we're doing that. Anybody have any questions on that that you want to discuss? Good. Okay, mark to public speak Eric do we have anybody left. Yep
and then the only other thing I want to say is the board of selectman did select. May 4 as the town wide budget meeting, 7PM in the elementary school gymnasium. And now I'll go around the room again. On my board now and first is Superintendent Bruno. You switched.
No. Nothing more. Nothing further. Again, just reminding that we have a good solid budget that we would like the Board of Finance to consider that it was heavily supported. Thank you. Okay. Next up, Gary Kermit.
Thank you for your time, and I echo the words Valerie. We did we worked very hard on our budget. We was past 700. We all agreed on it and hopefully you'll see fit to pass it as we did. Thank you.
Thank you, Jerry. And Kelly Hagerty. Kelly Hagerty going once, going twice. Okay. That appears to be everybody that is on the meeting other than Marina. Marina, do you have anything you wanna add? Nope. I'm good. Can you hear me? Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Anybody else from the board have any other questions or anything you want to bring up before we adjourn? Everybody good? Can I have a motion to adjourn? Don't move. Second. I'll second it.
Okay, Kurt motioned. Rob second. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay, unanimous. Thanks, Diane. Thanks, Thanks,