Meeting transcript
Special BOE Meeting
January 5, 2026 · Watch on Zoom · All meetings
The cloud. Yeah.
Right. Just wanted to welcome everyone to our meeting tonight. That says, informational meeting, special committee meeting for the bathroom renovation project at the Andover Elementary School. And then as we start, I just wanted to give a brief overview of kind of where we are and how we got here over the past kind of year and a half to two years or so. So starting in May 2024, there was a leak first noted, I believe, in the boys' bathroom in the is it the four or five wing? Well, right now, it's called the tooth ray. The tooth It's in one of the wings on the kind of the 1st Floor over by towards the basketball court side of the school. That was first noted in May 2024. And then the regular plumber for the school who's my tech came out and looked at it, and he discovered it was definitely a much larger issue than just a leak in the bathroom, extending to, like, this the drainage for the entire portion of the building and affecting multiple areas.
We did get quotes from three different companies in June and July 2024. And then Celeste, who was the chair of the board of ed at the time, went before CIP in August twenty twenty fourth to let them know of the issue and to hopefully get approval even though we didn't need it of trying to seek, you know, someone to come and do an MEP to figure out or what we needed to do to move forward. So for a few months, we worked on that. In December 2024, the board of finance did approve our MEP plans with Foss and O'Neil that also included the architectural plans. And then in December 2025, so this right this past December, the Board of Education voted to get two more estimates from the project from two more different construction groups. And then a few things that people have been talking about, but maybe not completely clear on regard the town charter and the RFP process and whether or not it affects the board of education,
and then what governs the Board of Education in regards to capital projects. For reference, if people want to look them up within the town charter, you'd want to look at policy eight zero seven, which specifically excludes the Board of Education from that process. And then the Board of Education policy 3,323, which states that any capital project over $5,000 the Board of Education and the superintendent need to determine if bidding is to the advantage of the school district. So so far where we are is that we have this thing with Fuss and O'Neil, and they basically gave us a design build proposal. And we're gonna go over that tonight and then have some public comment and then during the meeting. I am waiting currently to hear back from two other companies, but the past two weeks of December, I guess people in the construction world do not work.
So I'm still waiting for those to come back. Josh is on. Josh, if you're there, Josh is here with us from Fuss and O'Neil tonight, and he's gonna give a presentation about the design build advantage and about what they presented to us.
Just one point, Caitlin, on that one comment you made on your policy 3,323. Yeah. It says all purchases $5,000 more shall be bid unless the nature of the commodity or service prevents service prevents bidding and if the bidding is to be the advantage of the disposal. There's two conditions there. Not just one. Two conditions. So it is service prohibits building bidding and if the bidding is to be the advantage of the school district. So there's two conditions there that you sound with just to clarify. Okay. Go ahead, Josh.
Sure. Hi, everybody. So I guess I just I'll I'll kinda just run down the design build approach, how we see it, and kinda tell you what advantages we can we see and and we can provide for you. So some of the advantages, they're they're very Googleable.
You know, it's very Googleable firm design build. But we partner with a a contractor that also hires their subcontractors, and this is a contractor. Richards Corporation is who we're using. We've we've worked with them countless times in the past on design builds, and and the benefit we have is the constant collaboration throughout the project. Starting with the design and when we submitted our drawings to them, they asked us questions about certain aspects and those things have already been ironed out. A lot of times when you do design bid build in construction, you end up with a lot of RFIs, request for information, and those can really bog down the timeline of a project. By getting ahead of that, submitting our plans to our contractor and working collaboratively with them, We're able to reduce time during construction and we're also able to get a more transparent bid package from them. On top of our collaboration, there's also only one point of contact, one bill you have to pay and one firm you're paying. So you're not going to be surprised by any additional costs or anything associated with having to hire different contractors. It's all in one package, comes straight from us. Another, you know, on the collaboration and the timeline of the project, we're able to get this done a lot quicker,
because the team is already kind of familiar with the project, familiar with our specifications that we've already provided and familiar with, you know, the building itself because we've provided them drawings. We're able to run through this project a lot quicker and, you know, save time and money that way. That's basically all I have, Valerie and and Caitlin. Thank you.
Did everyone on the committee did you guys all get a chance to look at their cost breakdown and the proposal that has the letter with the information? Yes.
Bill, did you see that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Is Eric Sanderson here? He is. That's Capitol. Yeah. I'm on. Okay. So next on our agenda is you, I think, I believe spoke with the superintendent and then also wrote a letter, regarding your opinion on design build and this specific project.
So you are next on that? Yeah. So I've I've been involved since the beginning. And when Fuss and O'Neil came out with the first set of drawings, we were able to run it through. I put it into my estimating software, came up with a, basically, a cost analysis of what it should cost. Also looked for any deficiencies or anything when it the drawings that would add to, change orders. Also ran it by Mitek, plumbing and heating as well, and they were able to give some feedback that we sent over to Fuss and O'Neil. They revised those drawings according to our edits and resent out a new set of drawings. Everything was really captured. You know, based off of how I price things, I I think what Richards Corp, I'm not sure if their number has changed at all now, but based off of what Valerie and I talked about in in the beginning, it was a very fair and reasonable cost. I was honestly surprised that this was a project that they were going after.
They're a much bigger firm, and, you know, there's good things that come with that. You're you're gonna get a lot of really good resources that they're able to give, and they're not gonna oversend this themselves as opposed to, you know, going to a much smaller company. And then I also in the letter, I believe I said to give an extra 10% to hold back to yourselves just in case for any, you know, additional change orders. I know you guys don't know what's gonna happen when you open up the wall and you see all the cast irons. So, you know, so just making sure that the the school has those additional funds just in case any change orders come up.
I mean, Josh spoke very clearly to the design build process. I agree. RFIs and everything can delay projects, drag them out. Right? Because you send in an RFI, it could take ten days to get an answer. You may need that answer tomorrow. And, you know, with the design build process, all that's hashed out before construction starts. I've worked really closely with Fuss and O'Neil over the years. They're a great firm as well. Josh, you probably know Joe Devine. I've known him for probably twenty something years, but he worked with you guys for a long time. I don't think he's there with you now, though. But, yep, I think overall, the drawings are all set, and and the school should be in good shape to get started.
Okay. That's about all I got. Thank you so much for your input. We really value it. Next on our agenda is a discussion by the committee on the presentation and on what Eric has said so far. So I would open up the floor to people on the committee for questions, comments, discussion.
I mean, I we when our first meeting we had back in June, there were still some changes that I requested on these drawings, and it looks like they still haven't been done. I mean, take for advantage, drawing a one zero one. The door swing for the men's boys bathroom, they overlap to the, stalls. They're gonna there's an interference there. I thought I'd ask to correct that. Let me see if you can. Those weren't correct. This this is the only one. Okay. The only one you took me with the okay. Does anybody have the updated drawings? No. That's not it. It was hey, Josh. Are you still on? I'm here.
Because you just dated nine Josh September. Do you recall the conversation about, Jeff Murray is asking about those doors, the swing doors? Do you remember that conversation?
Not a 100% familiar with the exact conversation, but it's in a one zero one, you said? Yes. Correct. Upper left hand side. Entry door to the boys' bathroom. Is there any plans? That
was just one of them. I had a few more. I'd have to go back and look at my notes.
Because I thought that was something what he said would depend on which door was chosen. But I don't wanna speak for him. Is the. Like,
the outside door with the stall door? Yes. Yes. There's an interference there. Is that is that an interference, or they just touch just meet each other? They
actually will hit each other? You can tell by the swing patterns. Mhmm. Swing bat. Just
flipping. So that that's why I wanted to have a second meeting just to make sure all these changes were recorded and make sure we have a finalized set of drawings. Well, those would be gone over with the contractor. But we should, as a committee, should do that with Eric and everybody because we took action items from Eric, and we took action items from me in that last meeting. Yeah. And we should go through all those action items to make sure that all those, deficiencies were closed
before these even go out to anybody. Josh, you can just let us know, if there's a
from looking at that. Otherwise, we'll go on to the other committee members for right now. Well, I I'm sure you're other That that was just one of them. I just noticed, like, the lighting is still in the same spots, and I had some concerns over the. We did have
we did have a a conversation conversation about the lighting. Somebody's on oh, it's. Yeah. We did have a conversation about the lighting, and, I recall that that was dependent on what where the lights above the stalls were going everything lights. Where they were gonna be, and, if we were going with the LEDs like this or not. So, that wasn't a problem. We asked that because we were speaking about getting LED lights changed in the rest of the building. And so that was something that would be a little further along than where we were in the planning process there. It wasn't gonna change the cost. Okay. It was gonna change which lights we opted for. Just as the board and I have discussed at the last meeting, these LEDs versus the inverted LEDs.
So I know that one's still on the table for sure. Okay. But that's what I'm saying. We need to make sure that all these changes are recorded on these drawings. So we have a all those action items are closed, and it doesn't seem like they are.
Bill, I see that you are unmuted. Yes. I am. You are not. I
would agree with with Jeff that, and I didn't catch, that particular, item, but it does look like an interference that should be addressed. And I agree with Jeff that any items that are that are discussed like this, they should be addressed before it goes out to any further bidding. I understand there's two new contractors that I can review these documents. Is that correct? Yes. So I would think that before we send out these documents that we would address any of those issues that Jeff brought to light. That would be my only comment concerning this particular item that we're talking about right now. I have other comments, but I would save those for later.
Yeah. One other thing Yes. I guess I have a question too. How else would we do it? Right? So you you have the swings of the bathroom stalls, and you're not changing the location of the entry door. So how how else could you really do it? Right? Your only clash is if you're opening the door at the same exact time that somebody's opening the bathroom stall. I mean, that that would be your clash. Yeah. But how many times we You have to move that that bathroom wall the stall wall over a little bit is what you'd have to do.
It Or you make the door swing in? It's the existing model of what It's it's the existing. It's the same as what it is right now. There was no change. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
I don't Yes. So there there, I mean, unless you're gonna start modifying other walls and adding scope and and a lot more things, it's it's basically the same thing that's there now.
Right. I'm just I'm just bringing it to a point that there's gonna be an there's an interference there. It's clearly on the drawings. Got it. Another question I had is we went about we went back and forth about touch free versus the manual flush handles. I don't know where we ever ended up on that. I suggested I sent you a part number of manual automatic. And Yep. And I don't know if those ever made it on the specs.
We did even at the board of education, we had a good conversation, about touch free versus non touch free. And I had sent you the articles too. I don't remember. For an elementary school little kid's bathroom, the touch free was not Nope. Wasn't I I'm hearing completely the opposite. Yeah. No. We did. We that. I've read articles
everything's going touchless now because of germ concerns. And I would think the parents in the school system would want their kids to have touch free
Yep. The touch free for those bathrooms when we I mean, that's that's sixth grade or Right
now it's two, three. Okay. Yeah. But they should be old. I mean, we we have in airports everywhere. I mean, that's the common it's common practice now. And we looked at the articles because you're right. Looked at the articles too, and then It it is it's definitely,
it's if you look at the articles, the debate is is do you go to hygiene with the touch free toilets, or do you go with the kids get scared? Mhmm. And then it's a toy to try to make it so that you can do that. So, I had provided at one of the board meetings because it was a debate. Absolutely. I had provided some articles that, it is kind of a you know, whatever the the decision
is, you've got pros and cons on either end. And so I spoke to said there was be a mistake not going touch free. So Most of the elementary schools I talked to teachers too, and they said most of other schools are touchless now. Snow. Well, maybe we need to survey all the teachers here. I don't think we've actually done that. We're not doing that, but that's just my That that was honestly directly from the custodian, but, like, that was the first thing that he commented and care about, like, before we even had any kind of have our custodian driving our designs? No. But his opinion No. Think just the opinion of someone that deals with cleaning those restrooms on a daily basis is matters.
Yeah. I know we had new new wing put on in Manchester when I was there, like, just ten years ago, and they did not have the touchless.
In fact, we had the faucets that you just put your hands under the turret. On the faucets and done them. They they took them out. Yep. They have done them on the faucets. They were not good. They In elementary schools. Middle schools were nice. Years ago. Things have changed a lot in the other years. I still You have. Either. Well, I I set I set Valerie a hybrid model that was actually a manual and automatic. Right. So I don't know if that ever made it on the drawings either. I don't think it's on the drawings. I know that we did discuss it. I think we had asked for, like, what the price difference would be. If a contractor is gonna bid the project, the contractor should bid the the specified hardware that they're gonna put on the Bathrooms. And if there's a cost difference. Yeah. I guess that was more of the bigger question. Yeah. That I don't know. But we didn't, you know, we we didn't
we didn't necessarily lean toward wanting the touch free, on the on the toilets. Yeah.
Yep. Bill, you you said you had some other stuff?
Not with regard to the design. I, with the issues that Jeff has raised right now, I think it's good to go through those. I do believe that the touchless versus the manual, that's that's an opinion you can go back and forth. I don't think that's something that we should waste a lot of time on. I think the I think the design team at Fuss and O'Neil probably has a lot more experience with what's being being done in schools today. So I kinda lean towards the the flush the manual, but I think it's kind of a you know, he said, she said, well, you can go either way. It's not a a sticking point. A sticking point to me is the door interference, which I think should be addressed. But it's it's it's a matter of opinion on the flush list, you know, touch list versus manual. That's not something I would get hung up on. I think Foss O'Neill does enough work of this type.
I just Bill, I just mentioned if it was included or not and if it was considered.
I see. And that's what I'm saying. May maybe they considered it, Jeff, and they decided not to go with the touch free. Again, I think we go either way there. I think a more valid point that you raised, though, again, is going back to interference of the door. I agree with you a 100% that that should be addressed, whether the the swing door should be moved in a few inches or the the door between the two stalls should be moved to the right a little bit. I think that can be addressed without moving the actual outside door. So I think that's an easier problem to address, but it's just really a matter of opinion one way or another on manual versus automatic. I
don't think it's something we'd hold up the project over. There were other issues, Jeff, that you want to cover too. I think we should hear them all and address them all. Yeah.
That's why I have to know. I have to go back to my notes since and there were some other minor things. The lighting locations, especially let me go
Which to be clear, in terms of stuff like that, like, the interference as well as the lighting, like, majority of that stuff was them trying to keep it exactly the same as it currently is because we're trying to keep this as low cost as possible without, like, majorly moving things.
But this is stuff I wanted to kinda hash out our we were supposed to get together and have another design review over the drawings before we released everything, and that was something I wanted to have. But just that never really occurred for whatever reason. Vacations, summertime. I think that's what happened. I I think that happened, and then school started. And Yeah. It just kinda fell off the radar. It would be meetings with the general contractor to make sure that, yeah, these things are addressed.
Eric Sanderson, do you have other, points or or things that you wanna talk about in regards to where we stand currently?
No. I I I think I'm pretty good. I I think Fuss has done a really good job with the drawings. I my opinion, I don't think there's too much unless you're gonna get into a lot of costs on on changing that door interference. Partitions are built in a specific way. So to be able to have that piece in the middle between the sections, you really can't change the size of that. So, Josh, I don't know if it's something you can look at, but I I really don't see an alternative to that. But, no, overall, I really have nothing else to talk about when it comes to the constructability of it.
Yeah. One more thing to add on the door swing. Sorry. I kind of the conversation went away, so I just let it go. But, I did wanna at least make a little bit of sense of why or what we had maybe spoke about with an architect, our architect, and it's the door threshold and possibly being able to rework that. But, yeah, like like Eric was saying, it is you are kind of opening up a can of worms if you start messing with the wall, and you're gonna increase costs if you if we have to start tearing down any walls just for, small clearance item. But, you know, there are some things we could try, you know, running by our architect and seeing if they have any other other opinions.
And do you ever make those doors swing in instead of out? I've been in a lot of bathrooms where the door swings in. Is that that not a possibility?
I I think there's an ADA compliance part to that. Okay. I'm not a 100% sure, but I think there possibly is a ADA compliance issue with that.
You want me to get a a wheelchair in if I swing in?
Those are not our But those aren't wheelchair Those are yeah. Those aren't our wheelchair bathrooms anyways. But these are definitely things that we would be talking to the Richards group about as well and getting ideas, because that was the existing plan before. That's what our bathroom looked like. So, we would have to we really would have to look and see what other options we had for that space.
So so I know in, like, private places, the doors can swing in. But, typically, in commercial and educational educational facilities, they swing out due to egress and safety codes. So Okay. That's typically a safety code thing and an egress, mostly for exiting and all that stuff. So that's typically why in schools, you'll see them swing out, then you might be in restaurants and they swing in. But
Okay. Is there I know, Bill, you said you had some other things that you wanted to discuss.
Well, it's more about the process that we're going through, and I just want to, reiterate that I thought using Fuss and Neil as, a design build team, their their expertise and their, you know, construction management is a huge advantage advantage for a town that really doesn't have experts, to review the documents to run the construction of project. Design bid build is a lot harder to operate than a design build. It is more complicated. I just think there's a lot of advantages that, Fuss O'Neil just described. I've been involved in a lot of jobs like this. There's a lot more finger pointing, as you said. There's a lot more, he said, she said. This is his job, my job. Usually more change orders. I just think that, you know, because we're not in the construction business, the town, it's good to have a firm like Fuss and O'Neil overseeing the project for us. Design build is definitely the way to go. And I think now that we have, additional contractors pricing this, and even based on what Eric Sanderson said with his cost estimates, were higher than, it's Richardson, I believe. Right? Did Jim McCompany Oh, Richard and Spons. Yeah. Yeah. Richard and me or Richard's Go. There's they're already quite a bit higher than the the quote that we have from the contractor that's bidding this thing. So I think that's one one good determination that we have a good price on this already. And with two more contractors coming in to give
pricing on this, I think we'd be very good shape to to move forward as we are with the design build project and the oversight of Fossil O'Neil. And, with the additional quotes, we we we almost have an RFP process, if you will, really. Right? I mean, it wasn't the way we normally do it. But with the additional quotes, I think we're getting what we really need is to make sure we're having a contract that's giving us a fair and viable price for the job.
As I learned more about a design build, because I I really didn't until all of this know, actually, at Jody's suggestion, I had reached out to, I always forget his last name, Razalexy, who is the town, administrator and, or public works director rather and town engineer in Litchfield because they had done something similar where they had switched over small town, but they had switched over to design builds for a variety of projects in their town. And so, you you know, I I did speak with him and said, are the advantage advantages, disadvantages? Does your town continue now, this process of doing this? And much like what Eric has said and what Josh has said, when you have a small town where you don't have a facility and maintenance and operation and all of these people and they have a a a planner there as well.
They have switched to that for all the reasons that Bill just said because it just when you're tiny and you just don't have the expertise available in a little town of a few thousand, that is where a lot of of communities are going now, for all sorts of projects. And I know Jody had had some experience, so thank you for, allowing us to to to call and talk to them because you are familiar with the projects. So
k. Does anyone else on the committee have other stuff that they would like to talk about tonight?
I'd like to comment on those comments. I'm just looking I'm looking at your policy, your purchasing policy. Yep. And I know we've, Caitlin, before you said, you know, if the bidding is the advantage of the school district, but I'm gonna read this verbatim. If, all competitive bidding and quotations for $5,000 and up, Says all purchases for $5,000 or more shall be bid unless the nature of the commodity or service prohibits bidding and if the bidding is to the advantage of the school district, which either of those do not apply to this. Bid shall be advertised appropriately. Solicitation for bids shall also be made from the mailing list for bidders maintained in the business office. All bids must be submitted in sealed envelopes and marked appropriately on the outside of the envelope. Bids shall be opened at the time specified. Bid openings shall be public. The school district reserves the right to reject any or all bids or quotes and reserves the right to waive any formalities in any bid. So that is your process. That is your policy. So I'm just gonna ask the question why, as a committee member, why are we not following that policy?
I would say I don't have a good answer. I would point out that policy was adopted in 2009, so it's been quite a while since it's been reviewed.
That would that would be the way we go if we went a traditional bidding process. And that's And and I'd build a lot of money. It's my personal opinion. As a taxpayer and a resident, we should go a traditional bidding process. Well, the your mind? Well, the board does have a right not to decide to go in that direction, which is is where they are right now. Well, could you I I I don't see where that says that. I They they do have that right.
Well, please show me. I I don't see it. And I think we should stick with it. I don't see where it says
Okay. I I appreciate you sharing your opinion of that tonight. I think there's a lot of other stuff that we could get into comparing, like, this project to other projects that were done on the town side. I've also been following
of customers from residents that I've been receiving that that this is a substantial amount of money. And, you know, and what Eric said is we need to keep a 10% contingency. Yeah. So if we bid this whole project out of 440,000, that's another $45,000 contingency. So this job could be $500,000.
It could be $500,000. Yeah. And I will tell you as as the chair of the board of ed, I was not comfortable with saying, oh, great. Here's here's this. Let's go ahead. I'm not comfortable either. Without having other bids to compare it to. I'm Mhmm. Like Yeah. I'm not comfortable. Business owner, I'm not comfortable with that. Because, you know, as a selectman and as a board member, I mean, this isn't the school board's money. This isn't the town's money. This is the taxpayer's money. Taxpayer's money. And we owe and as a board members, we owe an obligation to the taxpayers to make sure that their money is spent. But we do we do that with other town projects. So I we're we're off topic. I don't wanna get into a fight or an argument. No. I'm just this is a discussion. It's a discussion, and I and I It's discussing because we're talking about going out for a visit, but I'm saying if we're gonna do this, we should follow your policy.
And I don't So I do think you're you you will do a disservice to yourself, right, if if you don't have multiple bids, at least three. You need something to compare it to. And that doesn't mean you have to go to the lowest bidder because that may be an unqualified bid. They can miss something. You have to do a scope review, all those things. So as long as you're getting something, and this is just my personal opinion, to compare to, then at least you have something to stand on. You know, if somebody else comes in at 220,000, you're gonna kinda question yourself because, okay, maybe they missed half the scope. If somebody comes in at $3.55 and another one at $3.90, another one at 400,
okay. Now you sit each one of them down, have a scope review, and you figure out making sure who missed what, who doesn't have what, and get everything apples to apples. I mean, that's typically how I see it if I don't do something as a public bid. But but anybody should do that even if you're a homeowner. Get three quotes. Yeah. Do you wanna switch? Yeah. Phil, did you have any comments on that? Or
No. I think we're saying the same thing round and round. Again, if we're if we're to get multiple quotes to be compared to, then I think the process that we have is good. I do agree we should have multiple quotes, but I don't think we have to definitely I don't think we have to go back to, like, a design big build type of project where it goes out to RFP because we already have Sanders Eric Sanderson's, you know, review of this. If we're getting two more quotes for Fuss and O'Neil and the board to review, I think we're doing basically the same thing. You're kinda getting an RFP in a in a different way. It's not like we're just getting one quote and running with it. We do have multiple sets of eyes looking at this and giving us quotes. So we're not gonna go blindly into just picking one contractor, as I think many people in this town, highly regard Eric Sanderson's opinion. He's reviewed this. He's wrote a letter stating that it's it's a a price that seems in line and fair and right, that the job was properly put together. So I think we're we're crossing our eyes and dotting our t's or whatever you wanna call it. I think we're doing our due diligence. It's just in a slightly different way. It's not going out as official
RFP, but we are getting multiple quotes. So that's where I'm more comfortable with the process that the board is following right now.
Great. So if there if there isn't any further discussion for committee members, then we move on to comments from the public. I do ask everyone is limited to three minutes per person. And if you guys could speak clearly with questions that you might have, I'm going to try to write them down so that we can try to get stuff answered if people have specific questions in regards to the information that was presented tonight. So let's see. Marcy?
Hi. One question I have is about the, committee members. We had two other that were on the board of ed, didn't we? And they've since gone,
and we have Brie replaced. Brie is here. Sorry. I I will answer because so Brie is here, and Mike Beckwith was not reelected. He was still invited. And Eric Becker also yeah. Right. So are they gonna be replaced
on the Mike Beckwith Mike Beckwith was invited to still be on the committee if he'd like to as a community member. He was sent all of the everything for tonight. Okay.
And we and we can talk more about it at our board event meeting.
Okay? Okay. The so I did wanna comment on the design build process because I've, you know, I've done a lot of construction, and we we built another house recently. And due to the, like, location, we considered a design build. And we, you know, met with a a wonderful designer, and we were really excited about using them. However, the cost of construction was astronomical. It was a 2,000 square foot house, and we got a quote of a million dollars. And so we end up going a different direction, and we end up spending half of that. So, you know, I there's a lot that we this is you know, we're not even spending money on kids, really. We're just spending money on the bathroom. So I I kinda would like to see if we can save some money and spend it on the kids. You know? So Okay. That's what I have. You. Rob England?
Hey there. Thanks for having me. I guess my only comment would be a question really about the timeline we think we've got for those additional bids and their review by the committee. When do we think we'll get those? When will the next subcommittee meeting be to kinda go over that? Because I I'd certainly like to listen in again. It's been informative for me.
We'll do a walk we need to follow a walk through, Caitlin, for contractors.
Once the contractor or the board of ed on the fourteenth has to vote to,
proceed or not proceed with the design build. Okay. Because I thought in the last meeting, you guys voted to have two more bids. Two comparables. Yes. Yeah. And is that have you invited those contractors yet? Yeah. She Have you had a walk through with the contractor? They have not. Neither one of them have come here yet. They both are planning to. Can you please do me a favor and include me? I'd like to come to the walk throughs. Yep. I would like to do the same thing if possible, Caitlin. Other members? Yep. Yeah. For sure. Thank you.
Yes. That that's basically what I'm getting at is next steps. How do we get to the point where we have our three beds? They've all been evaluated, and it's decision time. Because that's really where we wanna get to. I think, ultimately, all the process argument is over, how to get to a place where we feel that we've gotten the proper review of all of this and we have our bids, we've looked at everything, we've done our due diligence, and we can make the best choice. We, as a town, obviously, I'm not on the board. But the point being, you know, I just wanna have a general sense for when we think those things might be happening so that I can kinda keep track of all of this. That's all. Thank you.
Thank you. So, Caitlin, if you can have both contractors come at the same time and do the ones at the same time. Okay. Because that way, both of them get the same I don't know that they will. I can tell you when I was getting the three quotes for the oversight,
they didn't wanna come when someone else was here. When you're there quoting a job, they don't necessarily have walk you through it because if they're you're asking questions, you're giving them the same answers. Everybody gets the same answers. I yeah. The things that they might just based on my conversation. It's just a very transparent process to do it that way because you may tell one contractor one thing and one the other. So if they're there at the polls at the same time They get the same answer. They get the same answer. Okay.
Sharon, I'm all set right now. Thank you. Thanks. Doc Ed Ed Suresley.
Yes. Yep. I just wanna remind everybody the our committee built the community senior center design build process. Our committee selected the lowest of the three design build firms to select the lowest qualified bidder to get our community center built for under $1,000,000. It's a good process. I I just I I just brought in on I just let in on this information the last couple of days. I haven't had a chance to fully review everything. But just as a overview, it just seems we'll be spending a lot of money on on bathroom renovation. It's just, I realize we're getting different opinions on it, but it does seem to be a lot of money for just the two bathroom as an outsider of this whole process. But the design build should save us money in the long run due to lack of change orders. I agree with I agree with Josh's opinion on that. Thank you. Thank you. Diane Greiner?
Yes. I'd like to say I agree with a lot of what Rob, England had to say. This meeting was very informative, and, I appreciate all the work with the committee. Thank you. Thank you. Liz Luchak?
Hi. I have a question, actually. I'm curious if you can, tell us how those other two contractors were identified that are planning on coming in on the bidding.
They were contractors that I met at the CAB CABPS convention, which is the Connecticut State Board of Ed and Superintendent Convention that happens once a year. So So they do school construction. So they they specifically do school construction. There were probably about eight or nine different companies there that I got cards from.
Okay. I also wanted to thank Jeff Murray for reading your
policy three three two three. I found that myself as well, and I don't think you should dismiss a policy that you have on record. That's all. Kim? Nothing right now. Thank you. Bayada Kamanski?
Thank you all on the committee and the board of ed for your work on this. I just have two things. Have we clarified if we are actually operating within the written policy or not? And when can parents expect an update as to when the school will have more bathrooms available for the children? Thank you.
Amber Pritchard? All set. Thank you so much. Zoom user?
That's me, Louise Goodwin. Sorry. It didn't come up with with my name. Okay. Yeah. I'm happy to see that, we are gonna be getting two more opinions. I think that's the norm, and I think that's the safest safest way. And speaking for, a town a town person, I'm happy and thank you for all your help. Both boards. All the boards. Thanks for your help. Bye bye. Brie? I don't have anything at this time. Thank you. Nothing really. Any jobs?
Since this process is slightly disjointed from where we first were gonna be Austin O'Neil has been paid on a contract or proposal. I'm assuming you signed that, the original proposal. We did. I understand we, but who? The original. I believe I did, and you did. Caitlin Caitlin, you and okay. If we It was either me or Celeste. I think it was me. We can get the signed contract at the town. That would be great. The Board of Finance has it.
They They do. They do. And I resent it to them again maybe, like, two months ago. Signed contract? Okay. And then on the current
billing for Fuss and O'Neil, we paid for phase three bidding, $3,900. Can you tell me what what did Fuss and O'Neil do for that, and why didn't we approve those bills? And, Josh, if you could answer that, that would be great. Jody's not here, so that happens. Josh or Jody?
Oh, yeah. It's my understanding that you guys changed, and I'm new. So excuse me if I give I'm wanna wanna give you only correct information. I've been tracking all the bills. I looked at all the bills and tracked them against each phase of what they're billing for. And you are right, Jeff. There is the last bill came in October. Well, not and for phase four. Phase three, we've paid a 100% for phase three, and I asked Valerie the same question. So my understanding is that the the process was Foss and O'Neil bidding within their pool of general contractors. And then is is Josh still on here? So, Josh, did my assumption is when you went to that phase of looking for a contractor, that that is what phase three was in your proposal?
Yeah. Between that, and, you know, answering these meetings and and things like that, we've been putting a lot of time and effort into what would we we would consider the bidding phase of this project. So that's why it was built.
Okay. So and and did when when you did this project, Josh, I assume, like, your company, Fuss and O'Neil, considered several different construction companies and researched the companies. Did you do that as part of phase three?
It's part of the design build approach that we're taking. We did not consider three companies, but that's what the Board of Education is doing right now. We are providing getting support and construction administrative services. So that doesn't include RFP or any type of soliciting beyond what we've done already.
Okay. And you have responded to request for information and talking with, the Richards group. Right? You've been communicating back and forth as part of the bidding support?
That is that is how we've come to the conclusion of the, proposal that we provided. Okay.
And then in the billing, I assume so I did look at phase fours, reviewing submittals, the drawings, answering RFIs. And then, obviously
If this project is approved to Fuss and O'Neil or if you decide to go in a different direction and don't use us as, you know, the designers of the project for whatever reason, that's that's accredited. We had talked about crediting that as part of this, when the design build was approved.
Okay. I'm sorry. Can you explain that a little bit more to me? I'm sorry. I'm new.
Josh, when was the design build approved? What's date? What's the date that you're at? We have not assigned to pursue. Just had a question. Yeah. You did.
The design build were approved is what I said. So if they were to approve if the design build our proposal was to be approved, then RCA services included in that portion of the project would not be included, like, would not be part of the contract anymore.
So there'd be a credit back for the amount that you have for construction services on the detailed list? Yeah. You got it. Correct. So something's already paid.
Okay. Okay. And just just, Josh, just so you know, we have so we have paid out 45,725 on the initial contract of $48,600. So, we'll so are you saying that we won't get a last bill for '28 another $28.75 until, this all design build, whether RFP process is worked out? This is our yeah. That's correct. Okay. Probably, it wouldn't be till project closeout, for that portion. Okay.
And then the one thing I did wanna also just bring to this committee and the board of Ed and board of finance members' attention is we do have an outstanding invoice from Fuss and O'Neil in the amount of $8,100. It seems that we just got that invoice. It was dated in August, but it never came to us, and it just came to us in December. But when we looked so when I investigated and talked with Val as that invoice came in, it was for a hazardous, waste, assessment. And it was I just want everybody to know, it was in the contract as an addendum. So that $8,100 is not included in the $48,000. It's listed as, an additional necessary proposal. So I just wanna put that out there that we do have an outstanding bill for $8,100 that needs to be paid. And that has to, like, be brought to the board of ed, and presumably the board of finance because it was in the contract that was approved
and discussed, but that amount was not available at the time when the contract was signed.
Yes. The contract says that that a hazardous building material inspection will need to be done by us, and that was done separately. Our company that does our, Ahara and asbestos is Fuss and O'Neil, so they were the ones that did that as well. So that bill doesn't have anything to do with those four phases. That has to do with the fact that a hazardous building material inspection, needed to be done anyways for the project. So, yeah. So that's a separate entity, and it says in there that that would have to be conducted separately. Thank you, Jody. Thanks. Can can
Jody let us know where that's located in the contract?
Jody, what page is that on? I know it's in the contract, but mister Maguire would like to know what page that's on. Can I ask a question? No, Jody. You're muted. Sorry.
Yeah. I will find, it it does say yes. It's on page, let's see, three.
It's after all the phases, page three, number five. It says hazardous material inspection or abatement design are not included. However, it is required by law, and Foss and O'Neill is submitting a separate proposal for the hazardous materials inspection to the school. So page three. Page three number five.
Yeah. We didn't bid that up. We just went to No. Because we did separately, the Board of Education
did discuss the same time we were getting the AHERA, which is a requirement for the school, which is the asbestos, examination. That has always been done by Boston O'Neil. It did go to the board of education, and they did approve them to do the AHERA asbestos. When they did that and this, one was a reduced price, that Ahara. So that was something separate at the Board of Education that had nothing to do with the vote on this.
And, David, you're the one responsible for the other two quotations.
Just so I'm clear. That's just And I've been the person in contact with the other two construction companies. Yes. Alright. So far, I spoke with people from both of those peep both of those places on the phone, and I've communicated with them via email. I'm waiting to hear back from them in regards to what questions they have, and one of them made it very clear that they would want to come here in person. So
Can I make a point of bill, like, there was no RFP bill bill activity billed to us? Zero. Right?
There was no. The only as Josh said, the only amount that was considered as part of their billing was their time in choosing who they gave us as their suggested Okay.
General contractor, plumber, tile list, etcetera. As Jody alluded to and Josh confirmed, yes, their time where they together sat and said, okay. When we look at the scope of this project of the all of the people that we work with as Foss and O'Neill, when we would like to consider who we should recommend to them in a design build for the general contractor, that conversation, those conversations, the research that they did, the talking about the, projects that they've worked on and ultimately suggesting the Richards group to us,
that was already put in there is what what Scott is confirming. Coming in. That's when I sent you that email last week. I was asking I was asking for the dates. Like, what was bid? Because I think this email you sent me on July 26 was to me and Eric Anderson, and it said Andover Elementary School the school is issuing the request for proposal for the renovation of three restrooms within the building. Yes. School is seeking qualified contractors for the construction of this project. This RFP is issued with the support of the Department of Education. To begin the RFP process, please direct all inquiries to Josh Perdreaux at Yes. Yes. By August by August 6. But then we just came out and said there was no quotes.
When you asked Yep. At that meeting in July, the subcommittee and, again, we're off track, and Caitlin and I apologize. Gonna be off track. No. I'm confused because I don't wanna hijack Kate's I don't day one. I thought there was a I was told there was a No. Let's explain that, please. Sure. So when we had that meeting this summer, and you actually said the same thing, you were like, are we gonna do an RFP? At that time, we just started to talk about the possibility of looking at a design build. Didn't know anything about it myself either. Okay. And as we started to learn about that, you had a valid concern, and your concern was what if there were local people that weren't already associated with Fuss and O'Neil? What if Eric Sanderson's company or Mitek or somebody wanted to be able to be considered about? How would they do that? And that was valid. And that's my question. So at that meeting times. So at that for it to be posted. So at that meeting finish? Put it on the school website? That was can I finish, please? Okay. I'm just So at that meeting, I heard you, and you were it was a good point. You were right. What if there was somebody else that had not worked with Fuss and O'Neil before that wasn't gonna come up in sitting in a Fuss and O'Neil conversation about contractors,
about plumbers, about electricians. You had a valid point. What if somebody else was interested? So we did take your concern back to not only the board of ed, but I brought it back to Josh and Elizabeth and said to them, we do have a member that is concerned that you guys wouldn't be considering somebody else if we go this route. And he sent that email, and I sent that to the town administrator immediately and said, can you post this, please? Because if there are people that are interested, they would wanna be able to contact Josh directly and say they were interested. Eric Anderson, not Sanderson. Eric Anderson, as the town administrator at the time,
decided not to post that, and that was sent to you guys to post. Yep. And this is and this is what you said. Please post this notice on the town website Yes. Where you have the RFP information. The school committee met, which I concluded last week, and that the V and E subcommittee decided that we will be using fuss and omen for the RFP process. Yeah. But we'll post on the town and school sites in addition to allow any interested parties to Any interested parties It wasn't posted on the school. It was posted in our minutes. But it wasn't posted at We're we're we're grasping at straws, and it Oh, no. I'm just We are. We're grasping at straws. Trying to make sure that people weren't notified publicly that I can't control it. The town administrator
posted on the town website. I can't control it. It was town
RFP stuff. Those those three sentences you wanted posted on the.
It went yes. That if there was Yes. No documents? No no plans? No nothing? That was sent and asked to be posted on the town website. Okay. So that if we and he had a valid point there. What if that you know? And and we had Eric Sanderson, you know, on on this committee here as well, and I did talk to Rick from Mitek, and they weren't interested. It was beyond the scope, but that was a valid concern. What if there was, you know, a party out there that was not already associated associated with Fuss and O'Neil, either directly or indirectly, that they wouldn't be considered at that time. And so that is why we said, absolutely. That's a great compromise.
We will put it on the town website so that it didn't matter if we were going traditional RFP or if we were going build design build, that there would be people that would have that ability to reach out to Fuss and O'Neil and Josh Boudreaux.
Yeah. But just to clarify, this RFP this mentioned RFP only. The request for proposal is is inviting multiple contractors. K. Yeah.
Okay. So so one one last point on me. So We're, like, way over public speak. Just I do. We're not This is we're I'm a So so where where where are we paying Fosunil? Are we paying Fosunil under an RFP proposal, which is what you signed? Right? No. That portion said bid bidding support.
So the original proposal that you signed with Buss and O'Neil sits there and says bidding support and construction administration, the last two sections. Correct. Correct. And you're asking for payments to be made under a proposal that you're telling us is never gonna go forward.
The board on the fourteenth will decide if they're moving forward with a design build. And So
And I got so one last thing for me, just myself. We built the, community center under a bidding practice where we got three different design to build books. So even if you are sitting there saying that you don't want to quote and be the general contractor yourself, you could sit there and go out and find out if there were better quotes for design to build, and you could do three design to build quotes. Yes.
That's what we're doing. We could. We we could. You're right. I I don't wanna compare. You're doing a you're do you're taking their their No. We're doing comparables. There's a bit difference. There's a bit of a difference. But I I, you know, I I don't want us to keep comparing this to the town design for a variety of reasons. I mean, we never even went to a town meeting to discuss spending a million dollars on building that. So I don't want us to have this back and forth interaction where we're comparing two different projects, Jeff. That's not one was a board of selectman project. One is a board of education project, and there's gonna be a lot of things that are different. And in this case, yes, you guys went design build. So I think we all do agree that looking at a design build possibility is the solution here. I I don't think that that's,
you know, in in controversy here. We heard that from a variety of of members. And I and I think the end takeaway right now, right, is that that we're waiting to hear from these two other companies. And, unfortunately Yeah. Due due to the fact that New Year's and Christmas mean that people don't work for two weeks in December unless they work in industries that have to work, That that's where we are. We're waiting for those.
So I think you've gotten everybody on here. Yeah. I'm located.
Rob. Rob, did you have something else? I do. I'm I apologize. I know I'm double dipping here, but one of the things that Jeff McGuire had asked about is the signed contract between the board of Ed and Fuss O'Neil. I know I have a copy of the contract itself, but it's unsigned. I think that's what he's getting at. I give maybe just for record keeping purposes, there there must be a signed copy somewhere. If we can get ahold of that, that'd be helpful because I I asked you. You had sent me the the unsigned copy, and I said, did you is that the one you signed? And you said, yes, which I completely believe. But that's just I think what he's asking for is the signed copy. That's that was number one. Number two is that $8,000 bill. That's gonna have to obviously be discussed because the initial board of finance approval for Faucette O'Neil's contract was, I believe, for $48,000. It's gonna be $56,000, then, obviously, we have to talk about that. I mean, I understand a hazmat review. I get it. But that wasn't in the original scope for us, for our
grant of approval for the money.
That's it. Robin, it's on the it's on the agenda for the fourteenth, for our board of education because just like when we had to do the HVAC mandatory inspection, just like when we had to do the Ahora inspection. We didn't come to the board of finance and ask for the money for that. Our board decided that if it was not, able to at that time, this was last school year, but, that it was approved. But if it wasn't able to be paid for out of our budget, we were gonna go to the 2% at the time. So that is something that is on our agenda for the fourteenth, Robert, because whether we were doing this project with FOSS or not, that was something that would have had to be added. And so the board So just to clarify, Val, so the the eight the 8,100 that they spent on the hazmat review would have happened regardless of the bathroom project?
No. Regardless of who did the bathroom project. So that's why at the beginning, right, it was in project, the but it's not specifically for something else. Yeah. Part of that original ask. So I'm not saying the board of ed's not gonna come to you guys and say, can we still have an additional appropriation? But that is on the agenda for the fourteenth, and, the inspection was completed August 19. So Alright. Well, good to know. Thank you. Questions then. Yeah. So that's on this week's, the fourteenth.
I wanted to ask about the asbestos inspection. So Honestly,
Mercy, the asbestos inspection, I would say let's save it for the regular board of ed meeting because it has nothing to do with the bathroom project just so people that are here just for that can can go home. It should have been part of the original quote if that was something that's, you know, usual. It has nothing to do with this project. It's a it's a totally different thing in regards to the school specifically. So we'll talk about it at the board of ed meeting. K. So I think I think we'll adjourn for tonight. It is 08:05. 08:05. Thank you, everyone. Thanks.