Meeting transcript
Board of Assessment Appeals - Appeals Hearing
March 3, 2022 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Pledge allegiance. Okay. Now we will pledge allegiance. Let me Okay. Click this Okay. Here's the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Can you see them well? Am I, if I have the screen right? I can see them, but they'll have to speak up because I can't hear them. Okay.
Is there anyone here from the public? Do we have public speakers? Anyone want to speak public or
for my wife's attending because she was interested to see how this worked. Okay. Very good. It's Mary Anne Roy to the back left.
Okay. Have you got that Amanda? Yes. Thank you. Okay. The first hearing will be Lynn Stolzemak 24 Lakeside Drive. Lakeview Drive Georgia.
I beg your pardon. I'm going to swear you Lakeview Drive, Lakeside. What was that? Lakeview Drive, 24 Lakeview Drive. Lakeview Drive, I'm sorry, yeah. I live on Lakeside. Okay, would you raise your right hand, please? Do you solemnly swear or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning this case shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God or upon penalty of perjury.
I do a disclaimer so in the world of law enforcement it's a felony to lie. I wouldn't expect you to but I have there's more strength to testimony when it's when it's under oath. So a judge, when he gets a sworn to affidavit, right? He has to give that evidentiary credit, not just someone said something, but it was done under oath. So that's why it's important. Got it. And you are up. Okay. I cannot hear. Move closer.
Okay, so when I got the new assessment, I thought it was high, so I hired a certified residential appraiser and using two comps from Andover Lake and two comps from Lakes and surrounding towns, She came up with a fair market value of 500 which and 49,000 is a little over $80,000 less than the town's appraisal of $629,900 So I would like to have my head house assessed on the fair market appraisal of $5.49.
Okay, did a little bit of research on. I used 14 Lakeview and 7 Lakeside and 410 Lake Road, which I don't think yeah. Your appraiser didn't they used 330 Lake Road and 3 Lakeside Drive. 14 Lakeview came out with $6.29 2. It has, you have 1.5 acres and they have 1.16. But the, the waterfront, yours is only a 100 and theirs is $2.60. So that's a little different. You have no AC. They have partial AC, but it's three bedrooms. 14 Lakeview has seven rooms. And you have 18 31 living area. The appraiser said 1787 Mhmm.
Living area. Yeah. So this was 2798. Now 77 Lakeside Drive, they appraised that at $7.82 5. It sold for $6.12 612,000 in 2017. That has 1.37 acres, which is a little less than you have. But they have 200 foot frontage, but it is swamp. I mean, I know the area. They have air conditioned three bedrooms, six rooms, but their living area is larger than yours, 2,538. And then I looked at 410 Lake Road and their appraisal was 6261, which is close to yours. They have 0.98 acreage, a 160 feet frontage, no air conditioner, same as yours, three bedrooms, six rooms the same as yours. And they have seventeen seventy nine living area and you have eighteen thirty one, so it's a little more. That seems closer. I didn't think that the comps that your appraiser used were close enough, So I started looking for other ones. But, know, I mean, you're welcome to argue about it for sure.
Well, Linda Fortin has over forty years experience as a certified residential appraiser, so I'm gonna defer to her appraisal respectfully.
I think our assessor has many years of experience also, so one, it's kind of a wash, I think, To come down almost $81,000 is a bit excessive, but we're not gonna make I don't think we're gonna make a decision tonight. Alan, did you wanna go look at the house? I mean, I was in the house a number of times because I was friends with her parents.
Are there any discrepancies on the card? Have you seen your card? Yeah,
card is, I think square footage is 18,031 or 1,831,
I'm sorry. It was built in 1996? 'ninety six, yeah. Living area is 1831.
Linda Fortin said it came in at 17 eighty seven, I wanna say. Can you double check your report? 80 seven. Yeah, and the card has $18.31,
which is not a Yeah, I know. I I Yeah. I see that. Yeah. The card also says I have an outdoor shower. I don't know how that.
So that would be That's the way they describe it. You have a, like, a a shower that's seasonal?
No. It's a, a half bath. Don't have Half to bathroom that's only accessible from the outside. It's only used during the summer.
Okay. I think that's what they kinda meant by that.
Well, it mentions that as well, and then it also has outdoor shower. Either that or it at least says changing room with toilet entry from outside only, and then it also says outdoor shower.
And you say there's no outdoor shower. It's a half bath that's seasonal. Because on my card, they don't even have you listed for a half bath. They have changing room with toilet entry
and outdoor shower. Does it have a shower? No. It just has a toilet? The sink. A sink and toilet. Okay. So there's no shower? No shower. Okay.
We can cross that out. So basically, George, and I would say I would, you know, I would want to check why these discrepancies are on the card. Okay. I came into the town hall today, but the assessor's office was closed. Carol Lee opened it so I could print out this card and the second hearing card.
I have the card. I printed it out earlier, so I have it.
So, so again, just like, the woman I saw this morning on Lake Road with her six, six rooms instead of seven and two bedrooms. Confirm two bedrooms instead of three. There's changes that need to be made on the cards.
And that really, yeah, I agree with that because they've had some of my things wrong in the past. You need to go look at your field card to see if it's correct
because they had From seen me this discussion, it's not correct.
It sounds like it. And that can be resolved right in the assessor's office because they had me for a full 2nd Floor and I don't. Have a, you know, cathedral ceiling in the living room. It's like half of the 2nd Floor. So you need to go and check your card from time to time, and they can fix that right in the office while you're going through all of this. Do they have to send somebody to I mean, I
I'm happy to go if if I needed to go to confirm things.
But If there's a mistake on the card, you can notify John and he'll go and look. That's what I did. And he came and looked and he saw, and they had me as a full basement and it was three quarters dirt floor crawl space.
So there are mistakes on the cards that you need to go and check. And then the question is due to the mistakes on the card, does that reflect in price changes?
Very well could, but not necessarily as much as the appraisal says. Know You what I mean?
I do. But, you know, they're saying she has $18.31 on the card and she has $17.37. 87. 87. That's a 100 feet difference. It's 44. The difference is 44.
Was this house including the right everything was done at one time in '96? Yes. So there were no changes made in the last?
I remodeled the bathrooms. Okay when when was that? That was done early this year or last year 2020. I don't have that on this one. That was done early last year? Yes, but it's on my card. Yeah, I don't have it on this one. What's the difference between that?
I don't know. Carol Lee printed this because I was having a Should I see that? I
don't know if it's the same thing printed different ways or
Joking room with toilet entry from outside owned property is waterfront, outdoor shower, so you're so that's wrong. Wrong, yep. And added WDK? Wood deck? Wood deck.
Yeah. That was in 2021 you added? No, that was added back in, I wanna say, 2014. How do you read that? Says in 2021 add wood deck, change sketch. Yeah, she said it was 2014. Okay.
Increase lot size. That's from six sixty six to, oh yeah, she picked up two lots. Picked up an Yeah. Increase lot size. Combine C1 and C1A into one lot.
So you bought an extra piece of lot just to for a boundary or I I bought a buffer so when they build a new new house next to me. Okay. Sure. Okay. Well, we can we can definitely, you know, check these things out. But everybody should look at their field card and make sure there's no errors on it. That's important.
Okay. Okay. All right. So you've got no information Georgette on any of the appraisals. Say that again.
We have no information from Mr. Chipponis regarding any of the appraisals?
No, I mean I gave him some of them and he gave me opinions but we really didn't I mean, I could give him some more of them. I just didn't forward them after the first few. He was out sick and then, you know, I got busy. He he was just looking to see if there was any errors.
Right. That's what I thought he was gonna report on. So he didn't find We
didn't really ask him to report on, but, you know, we we could have met with him again to have him, look at them. He didn't look at all of them. I'm sure. I think he only looked at a couple. So because I didn't even have them. You now you have a 100 foot frontage, waterfront, 100 feet, it says? I believe so.
I just wanna make sure that that was right. I don't know what the exact measurement. Okay. It's not in there. It's not? Don't think so.
I'm not overly concerned with it because you if you don't have a second house on the land, it becomes surplus land more than a lot. Really have details on. Oh, can I see that? I
mean, it's just a wooded lot. That's all it is. I can't build on it. Is it 0.58, like half an acre?
You know? It's this is a lot I bought. It's 0.84. My existing property was 0.66. I think there's new houses in here. Is that what's going There's gonna be. That's There's gonna be. That's the second lot. That sale is still pending for over a year. Right. Right. Right. Okay.
So you bought a buffer property to to kinda separate yourself from whatever happened I've been spoiled for a long time with that. Is it waterfront also or? The lot that somebody's going to buy?
Well, no, the buffer that you bought, is that also part of the waterfront or? Part of it is. Okay. Just checking. Was it a half an acre?
I had 0.6 6 was my existing lot. I bought 0.84 to bring it up to 1.5. I'm gonna shut my phone off.
You all set Georgia. Yeah, I am. So the question is, did Mr. Troponis look at this appraisal and does he I have
don't know if he looked at it. I can call Roberta. Tomorrow's Friday. They won't be until, you know, I was gonna go in and see him on Monday, but he was out sick. So I
just wondering if he's already seen it. I mean I don't think he's seen this one. When did you send this?
Try I don't think he has seen them all. I mean, I I told them to print them out and give them to him, but whether he looked at them, I don't know. I'm just I'm I'm thinking the comps, you know, that she used wouldn't have been the ones that I would have thought would be close. Yeah. But we're not assessors and we're not appraisers.
So we have to do some research. We have to understand that a certified person for forty years knows what they're doing. And and this person has submitted this appraisal and unless there I thought the very first meeting we had this season was a discussion about. If there's no qualms to the appraisal report as not being correct, you know, in other words he's not calling out an error on the report. We have this report in good standing for a fair market value representation. For consideration Yeah, another I'm not qualified to edit this or pick it apart?
No. But I think, Alan, the the thing is you think that we should take that figure if there's no errors, but that's not what we were told. We were told we could consider it along with other things. No. The town attorney said this appraisal carries very strong weight. But not all of it.
Not all of it. No, but I have to tell you that at court, the court, Superior Court is finding for this report over the assessor. The assessor is a lesser value and it's not used at court.
But each case is individual and that the attorney told you that it was only in that case that you were talking about. See, like 330 Lake Road has no garage. It was built in 1959. 3 Lakeside Drive was built in 1940. So
But what I'm told is that when the appraiser finds these pluses and minuses within, do an algorithm review of plus two points minus two points. They structure the, the system, the machine, the computer program is structured to account for differences in cough. So although you're saying you don't see this as being a side by side comparison, I'm telling you, I know that the algorithm has changes made to account for those.
Okay, but if you take 410 Lake Road, which I did, and I compared it and that one was appraised at 6261 and it is closer related to 24 Lakeview than the other two that the appraiser used. That's all I'm saying is that, you know, you hire an appraiser and they're going to try to do things that favor you, you hired them. So, and I'm not saying that it should be, it should stay That would be a
violation of her professional code of conduct and ethics. And if someone can look at her evaluations and say, you're grossly misrepresenting, then she could be sued. I didn't say grossly representing.
Could. So, so I'm saying that we agreed to have the appraisals looked at for errors or omissions, but we haven't had feedback. Linda and I are waiting for feedback and you're sounding like you don't expect feedback.
I don't know. Mean, you gotta remember, I'm not down at the town office every day either. So if you want to go talk to the assessor, I mean, we're gonna, I'm sure we're gonna post. Okay.
Georgette, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna make a motion Okay. That we accept this appraisal value as being a certified fair market value. Okay. And with that, we change from what the assessors amount was to this appraisal report, which is what's give me that number there. $549,000 I'll second that motion.
Okay. But you gotta remember, you gotta you gotta talk about the assessment because that's what we are changing is the assessment. I know. But then the other night, the town attorney chastised us for doing I realized that, but I was chastised way back from the assessor's office for using appraisal when we are the board of assessment appeal. So there you go.
Alright. So what you're You know what mean? The one we got. What we're gonna do here is Linda's gonna use her calculator, and we'll see if we can do that.
Already have the number. It's 384300 for a new assessment. So the new assessment No. I have 440,930.
No no but she's saying we're going to change it. Oh so that's new value. The new value will be $3.84 what? 300. $303.84 300. Okay
I agree. And Linda seconded that. We're going to take a vote correct. Okay. And I vote yes. All in favor. Aye. Aye. And I'm going to abstain. So it passes. Thank you, William. Thank you. All right. Now we have a second person here. Did you get that Amanda? You got those numbers? Yes, thank you. 384300 for the new assessment. Okay, thank you.
So we're going to swear you in. Am. You need to. Yeah, just a second. Want have you raised your right hand. You understood what we said previously. Okay.
So Georgette, you're going to do the swearing. I want to get the numbers down so I can. Okay, that's fine. I have to write letters and I have to notify the assessor's assistant. Okay, first of all, congratulations on your new granddaughter. You. Is it your first grandchild? Okay. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or solemnly and sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning this case shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help you God or upon penalty of perjury. Say I do? I can't hear you. I do. Yes. Okay. Thank you. So here we go. Let me get that case up.
Print out from Senator. So, what's the This one's different than this one. So, it looks like you,
appealed it already and there was no To Vision? Right? I appealed it to Vision and they made no change. Yeah. And then what did you do from there?
I had an appraisal done by Linda Fortin, and I submitted it with the paperwork. Should have a copy.
I know you have it. Yep. Okay, I'm gonna have to stir it here. 4352 appraised at my house at 354. That's under
on the second page you'll see the assessment 2 97150. Yep. Okay. So the fair market value is 354,000. Right. So
we deal with, as Georgette just said earlier, on the assessment. So are we going to try to calculate this change?
Well, you mean, you know, we can talk fair market value using appraisals, but when we make the motion, we have to make the motion on assessment. And, and that ultimately comes out to the appraisal amount when you divide by 70. Okay. That's it. Great. So take 70% of that Yeah.
So whatever 70% is of that number is what we would actually the town has $4.24 5 and the appraisal has $354,000.
Give me a second I just want to go through this. Sure. I have some bumps that I printed out.
This includes Lot 65. 92 you put in a garage. No central heating system?
Correct. My house is on a pier system. It has no basement. It has a propane heater on the 1st Floor. There's no heat on the 2nd Floor. Holy mocha. And it has a wood stove. When it gets really cold, I have to use the wood stove. I'm being appraised like a house with a basement and a full heating system. Feel and you have. I do not have a.
Don't have a room down there with a it's where's your water heater? The water
heater is in if you go up the stairs it's in the closet under the stairs okay wow in the house dirt floor The
whole bottom. Okay, all right. What else can I tell you? Have 106 feet of water frontage. Okay, so I was going to show you, I have with the town I had a survey done. Doesn't have that. But I do have a survey file with the town and here's kind of what it looks like. It says on the top cut it got cut off it's 100 feet.
And this is a survey that's yeah this is 106 water frontage.
It's one hundred and two zero eight on one side 172 and this is 100. And it's I own Lot 64 65 to what's put together
on the. And on the lake maps, you know that big surveys that they have.
And you had the house was recited in 2019. What do you mean no, it says right here in the card. That's correct.
It was later than that. I just noticed that like a few months ago. It's very nice by the way.
It was not recited. I stained it. And the reason why I stained it, I wanted to get into that.
That's one of the things a change on your card?
Yes. But it's an incorrect accurate it's an incorrect recording on my card.
Okay. So you didn't get new siding. You just stained the old siding?
Just stained the old siding. And, in 2019, I have pictures. I could give you another chair. I got another chair here. Okay. So in 2019 Yep.
I had a problem with the corner of my house.
Can I see this? So Jordan, I'm gonna move this. Hopefully you can see it. Well, you'd have to hold it up higher. Okay. Okay.
So so this is what it looked like when I noticed there was a problem with the corner of the house. It was kind of like rotted wood. Yeah. So this is what was repaired to. And then I had taken the shingles off myself, the old shingles. Yeah. He fixed the corner of the house and I put them back on because I shingled the house myself back in the 80s. Really? Yeah. And when I was home, I'm returning to leave with my son in '92, the garage was done. I did it myself. Wow. So I know how to shingle. So I did not have new siding put on the house. That is incorrect on my card. Alright. I made I made a notation. I put the old siding. You can see here's a picture, and it's discolored because I didn't put it on. One of the reasons that why I stained the house is because I put it on and it's discolored. Okay.
And I stained it myself. I didn't even know you could do that. What? Stain your siding. Never even thought of it. Yeah.
It's a nice color. I like it. It looks very yeah. It does. It looks nice. But it what it is not new siding. Okay.
So we'll change that. It says the amount is $800, so it can't obviously be new siding. Because It's not new siding. Your house will be more than $800.
Oh, I see. It's new siding. Do you have any amount? The corner of the, you know, here, the corner was replaced for 800. Okay.
So that was fixing the corner. It was fixing the corner. It's a repair. Is not a remodel or new siding. Okay. And you have how many bathrooms? I have one bathroom. One bathroom. No half bath? Nope.
And three bedrooms? Three bedrooms. Right. Let's see. One has one bedroom has a really tiny, tiny little closet. I don't know if you can really call it a closet. It's a small house. No.
Has did Vision go in and see the house or John go in and see the house? Yes. He has. Okay.
I sued the town of Andover, and the judge ruled in my favor. Part of that process is that John came and inspected my house. Okay. And and let me tell you a little story about when he came and inspected my house. And I wanna go through some of the things that I've been going through for the last twenty years with John. So he came into my house and he says, I'd like to go down to the 1st Floor. Okay, John, you are on the 1st Floor. There's no basement in this house. And he goes around to where the plot you know, the door is to go where the hot water heater is. The one you yeah. Yeah. That I told you. And he goes, I can you open the door? I'd like to go downstairs. Okay, John. Once again, twenty years, I told you there is no basement in this house. And I opened the door, and it's a hot water heater. He he goes upstairs. He goes, where's where he looks up stairs. He's looking for, you know, something that I didn't put a building permit on or, you know, check. I didn't have another bag. Whether or you had heating up there. Heating up there or whatever. Yeah. And he goes, is there Can you get have access to the crawl area? Go yes, it's outside. So I showed him, you know where it was outside and here's a picture of kind of the corner of the house here where it's blocks. There's no even foundation. There's two sides of the house. That's concrete block. Yeah, two concrete blocks because it's not a pier system
and right where the plywood is is a hole to get it into the for all area. It's not even a door. That's what I was gonna ask you. Not even a door. It's about in about the size of this table and it's about this wide. Two and a half feet high and three, four feet long. So it's probably the crawl area on one side is probably about this size, but on the other side, the roadside, is probably about this tall.
Emily, it shows a picture of a single heat unit. That's what you use to heat your house? Yes. Does it have access to be able to get to the other rooms? It's pretty big, but There
it it pretty much, you know, if it's not really cold, it'll heat the house. Yeah. Because heat rises. But that's all I have in the house is that propane heater. So it's on the 1st Floor?
On 1st Floor. There's no heat on the 2nd Floor. So, then that would rise and maybe heat the 2nd Floor a little? Yeah. Okay. Do you have registers on the 2nd Floor that the heat can get through? No. Okay. There's no basement. There's no ductwork.
Yeah. Okay. No. My grandmother used to have registers in the floor, so the heat would go up through the registers. But you don't have that. No. I know. Okay, and where is the circuit breaker
closet on the 1st Floor? On the 1st Floor in where the water heater is. Okay.
Is that 100 amp system 200 amp system? You don't know? Do
you have the switch type where there's a switch you throw? There's switches.
Circuit Okay. Breakers. Yeah. You've never increased it since you bought the house. Right?
Chances are it's 100. Yeah. And this house was built in 1967.
Okay. So from what I know, and this I don't wanna bring that up too. Okay. So let's go to some of my cards. So I have copies of my cards from back twenty years, and every card has something wrong with it. Yeah, I'm learning that quick. Every card and here's a whole stack of them and I can go through what's wrong with each one of them. And,
have you brought that to the attention of the assessor's office? Absolutely.
You have? I certainly have. And I'll read you a letter. And they won't change the things that are wrong? Well, okay. So I went and sued the town and I the judge ruled in my favor. And I I have been having problems with John. When I go in and talk to him, he once said to me, I don't care what you have to say, and I'm not listening to what you have to say. And I have been having problems with him. He doesn't care that there's something wrong on my card, and he won't correct it. Example is I went to court, and I one of the things that's wrong on these cards, and then he noticed years ago, is that the card says wall area. Mhmm. Yeah.
An unfinished basement. Unfinished basement. How can you have both? Right. And you and you told him that. I told him that. And this $14,000 was added on to the house. This was years ago. So I feel I have always been appraised with a house with a basement. So let me explain other things that he I see on my card wrong. I have, it went from unfinished basement to slab. They were on a slab. No. I'm on a slab. So let me show you some of the cards that show that it's on the slab. Find one.
And it just showed up? It just showed up for no apparent reason.
So what we have here is what year is this? 12/2012. This was 2012. It says 1st Floor, crawl space, patio, slab, basement slab.
So I did not pull a permit and have a slab put under my house, but it's on my card. So I went to court, you know, because I'm being now appraised with the house with a slab. And I, you know, pointed that out. I pointed that out in my trial. I pointed that out. And when vision came with this rebel, I, because I couldn't get anybody to change it. And John wouldn't change it for me. And when I went to court, I told the I said, John was sitting there and I told them my house is not on a slab. And when the guy from Vision came to reappraise, you know, look at my house, I said, can I see my car? And I go, it says that it's on a slab. My house is not on a slab. Let me show you.
So I can't get him to correctly make my card correct. Every card I have here, there's something wrong with it. It. So have you tried talking to the town administrator about no cooperation?
I have done that too. Sent letters, not not Eric Anderson, but the guy before, and he didn't even wanna deal with me. I gave him a letter and he with, problems with my card and he wouldn't accept it.
Well, they don't have any authority over the assessor, so I can understand that. Now what is what is your house? Is it dirt floor crawl space underneath?
Yes. I do have a plastic liner now. Okay. Because I was tired of crawling under there and getting dirt all the time. Okay.
I had pretty much the same problem, but I didn't, you know, I didn't have a lack of cooperation. They came and looked and they saw that it wasn't, it was just dirt floor crawl space, not an unfinished basement.
Georgette, why wouldn't he cooperate with correcting it? Don't understand. I don't either.
I've never had that problem whenever I had something wrong on my card.
Let me talk about the current card and what's wrong. Okay,
go ahead. So I know I had pulled some permits in 2002, 06/10/2000 and '2 and 07/03/2002. And one of them, it says remodel. Yeah, see that. And it really is a repair because I had to have the sill repaired. I had to have the sill replaced. That's not a remodel. That's a repair. Okay, so it was a repair for what reason? Because it's rotted and I had bugs in
Termites or something? Yeah. Okay. So that was a remodel,
but it was actually showing on the card as a remodel. I see that. That's a repair. That's not a remodel. All right.
Know I gotta highlight it. Hold The chimney liner was put in because the tiles were cracked and I didn't wanna have a fire. That's a repair too.
That's not a remodel. It says installed chimney liner on '21. But it also says remodel.
I don't see that. I don't see remodel anywhere on your card. I just see in, install chimney liner. Install chimney liner January to the left, Georgia. So Janua it says install chimney liner 01/20/2021.
But the date is not the same on the left. That's that's a whole different setting. 07/03/2002.
Install chimney liner remodel. That's what's on the line. I see. See 01/2021. Certainly something wrong here. We're not looking at the same part?
That's what I'm gonna try to got them side by side towards that. I'm trying to figure that out. Say Yeah. 2019.
Install chimney liner January The '20 date on this is 2022. The date on this is 03/03. So that's just when you got to print it, right? Yeah. But could it have been changed? Because we've been seeing changes between dates. What's the date of your cards? The date, the one I brought in, I just printed it out today. I came in and printed it out today. Okay. And you just see installed chimney liner 01/2021? Yeah, I'm showing them to Linda.
That's what I have. But if you look over here, this is what she's talking about. So what's this date? This permit date with the remodel. This is two different things?
The 73202000And2 was a repair, but they have remodeled, but that's not the same thing as the chimney liner.
Okay. So if you have your hand on 07/03/2002 remodel and keep going to the right, it says 800. Yeah. Nothing, nothing in the inspection date percentage complete a 100 comments, install chimney liner. But that has a date of 01/2021.
No, we're seeing what Linda is saying is visit change history. So it has a list of dates, right? And to the right of that, these were change histories for building permits, field review, etc.
So it looks like to me that does not go with that. Linda
is saying that the visit change history box, which has dates, doesn't correspond to the building permit record lines because the dates, if you look on the right, the dates go all the way down to the bottom, but to the left of them at the bottom, there's nothing written in there. But there are things written to the right.
Well, that's visit change history. So it must have been, they must have gone there. That's what I'm thinking. Visit page history. I
got to keep asking this question. What's the remodeled kitchen? Did you remodel your kitchen? Back in
'93. '93. Okay. That's correct. That's the last remodel that I had.
Else has been up. I agree with you. It makes sense. Yeah. And Georgette's reading it as part of it, but it's not. Well, the remodel,
if there's nothing on the left side that says anything in 2016.
Not 2016. So it starts at the top twenty nineteen siding, repair wood on house, reroof, remodel, remodel, and then porch LVG
porch living room. Did you do something with a porch? It used to have a porch that wasn't heated and we blew out the wall
and it part of the living room. That makes sense then. Okay. But that was in 1993. 1993.
Gotcha. All right. We're I understand though. See, that's the issue date of the permits that they're they're listing on that side. But I'm understanding that. Other side, it's a visit change history.
So the comments where it says comments, he's commenting on things that were done. Did you reroof your house? Yeah.
They put a did a permit and some I had a guy he has reroofing. It was what year? 2013? '13. Yep. Evidently correct. What is incorrect. So,
the twenty two thousand and two ones are not remodels. They're repairs. Okay. So the 07/15/2019, it says siding. All I had was the corner of the house done. It was not recited, and it says new siding 2019. That is incorrect.
It's up here where I marked that already. I wrote stained only. I'll I've highlighted in yellow the areas you're talking about. I'll come into the well they're closed tomorrow, I'll come in on Monday. So when was the liner done for your chimney? It wasn't done in 02/20/20002.
Okay. So that other box with the visit change history is not part of these. Okay. Correct. Correct. I got it.
So, and it looks like it says 2021, it says remove slab. So it was never on a slab. It should have never been added to my card, but when vision came, they probably saw, I insisted that they change it and it says remove slab. I don't have removed That's when it was corrected. When was that?
It says 02/2021, it says remove slab. Oh, so from SK. From s probably the person that did it from vision. Okay. I don't have that on my card.
And then it says change heat fuel. I I don't know what that is referring to.
Repair wood on replace cell porch, living room remodel. I don't have that either. Change oh, wait a minute. I'm looking somewhere else. Hold on. Oh, why? Yeah. Did you change your heating from, like, oil to propane or something?
Oh, I see remove slab right in there. Yep. Yep. I mean Why was it even put slab put on my card when it never was on a slab? No. I we don't know. But But I'm saying there is something wrong with every card. Every year, I have to deal with this. Did you change your heating fuel in 2021? No. You didn't go to propane or anything?
It was been propane since 1993, know, when we redid the house in '93. Okay. Right. I want I have a question. Okay Linda has a question. I'm just curious. So in 2016 your assessment was 2010, August.
I can't hear you. Speak up, Liz. Oh, in 2016,
her assessment was 2000 I mean, 02/10800. Right? Okay. Alright. And then 2020, it went down to 192.5. Yep. Because I've been bringing these I was wondering what year you went to court. Yeah. Yeah. It probably probably the year the year I went to court was the last rebound. But I've been going I have been feeling you know, when it says unfinished basement $14 and crawl area, which really is a crawl area, I have been fighting my rebounds because I feel that I've been assessed with a basement and a full heating system and they continue to be assessed like that. It sounds like it's, I hate to say this, but it sounds like it's with prejudice.
They are not changing your card, so Vision gets your card with misinformation and they are doing their algorithm based on that information. And you're saying that you've brought it to the attention of the assessors. I want to pull it. Yeah. Yeah.
Let me read you a letter. Okay. All right. Go ahead. But I want to bring something else to your attention. Depreciation, 11% on the new card. Oh, yeah. Okay. Pretty low. How many So let me show you cards in the past. 27. What year is that?
2012. Here's 2019. It's '27. Yep. 2022, it's 11. I didn't do anything. Georgina, are you catching what she's explaining? Thirty one percent in 2017. So the higher the number
Higher than the lower the number you did some improvements. So you have appreciation, which makes your house more.
So it could be related to the, it could be related to the thinking that you recited your house. Correct.
That I talked to Linda Thornton about it, and that's what she thinks. She tells me to send an email to John to say, did it go to 11%? Because that's part of the algorithm. Right.
I see what you're saying. And what was it before?
27. 27 31 on this card in 2008. Card, they're either 31 or 27, and then all of a sudden it changes to 11. 11. Okay. I see it. And she's saying that This year it's 2932. You
know, I'm going to look for words to explain it. I haven't talked to Mr. Troponos regarding it. I don't know what authority I have or the board has to tell him to make changes to the card, but certainly it's problematic because in future
revals, you're gonna have the same issue. Right. It doesn't change. It's constant. There's something wrong with my card and how my house is being appraised. Every revow. There is there is never anything, you know, ethical about how they're revaluing my my property. So let me point out a couple other things too.
Wow. I was kinda, like, blown away by your presentation.
Okay. So let me show you. In '2 I have a card from 2002. 2002. Yep. Twenty years ago. Year built. What's that say? 1967. 1967. It says g 1967.
And this one It says on here. When was it go? The most recent card is 1967. Okay. So in 2007, what's it say? It says 1900? Yes. Well, is making typos. 2012. 2000 What's say now? Now it says 1955. Yes.
Oh my god. You know, Georgette, I I think she's trying to make a point of it's it's a plethora of errors. Definitely. All of these errors will affect the algorithm. There's another one. Sure. 2011. 1961. So I sent a letter to the assessor. You did? When is this? Dated 09/2019.
Okay. Go ahead. These are the types of problems and I document this stuff. I received a letter from my home insurance company, Pacific Specialty Insurance Company, attaches the letter. As you can see, they have an issue with the date my house was built. Inquiring why I received this letter, my insurance agent stated that the town of Andover Chester's office changed the year my home was built from 1961 to 1955. Insurance company is asking for legal documentation of the correct year built. Please provide this. The letter I got from the insurance company states, tax and title of the insured property indicates the original year built does not match the date listed on the application. Please remit legal documentation of the correct year. John's response. I am receipt of your correspondence dated 03/11/2019 in which you have requested that the town to provide you with legal documentation of the correct year belt. Please be advised that the town does not provide such service. Should I continue reading the rest of the letter? He wouldn't help me. I had to switch I had to switch insurance companies. Because would not help me.
I'm at a loss for words. I know. You can actually
I mean, I had to go look to see when my house was built and it was very iffy because there was no But if you went to John
Georgetta and you explained him, you got the wrong date, he'd change it. Why isn't he doing this?
The problem was that it started in 1967, and it got changed in 1900. And people, you know, didn't know. I I had looked through the records, and it said on the records that the house was land only in 1954 and there was dwellings in 1955 so it probably got changed in 1955 because of that. But it ultimately got rebuilt in 1967 because I had done some research, So it got, I got it finally changed back to the original year built. Was 1967?
It was 1967, but somewhere along the way it got changed in 1961.
And then because of incorrect permitting notations, your depreciation has changed. So more errors.
Thank you, Tom. I mean, what the heck? I'm sorry. I, I, I'm at a loss for words. So Linda Fortin,
found a discrepancy in the legal description versus the assessor's map. And you can see, I showed you the, my survey.
Yeah. The one with the frontage of a 100. Yeah.
See it. Yeah. So the survey goes like this. It's kind of like this. The assessor's map is that plus a different an an additional lot.
What? Can I see that? So this came from, your appraiser.
My appraiser found that when she was The legal talking description and the assessor's legal description are totally different. Correct.
And you're telling me that your deed of ownership? My deed of ownership says that I own Lots 64 And 65, not whatever lot is next to it. Wow. And I think on the card, it says, where's that card? It includes Lot 60
includes Lot 65 because I think that I'm gonna hold this up for you, Georgette. I hope you can see it. The bottom is what the assessor is showing, which is totally different than what the legal definition.
Raise it up a little bit more. Okay. I see that. Yeah. Yeah.
How, how, how, how is this addressed? I don't even know. What do we do? I don't know.
Now you can see why I have been frustrated, and he doesn't want to listen to me. And he told me that he doesn't have he doesn't have to. And he said that he's not going to listen to me and he doesn't care what I have to say. So that's why I went to court and got the judge to listen to me and he ruled in my favor.
Hey, maybe we should lower her assessment even more than, yeah, she's asking me how much did you ask for? This is what she put on her form, $3.54,
right? Yeah. Because that's what Linda Ford is Maybe we should go even lower.
Yeah, the assessed value from the town is $2.97 150, but the assessed value from Linda is $2.47 8.
So I mean, I understand her frustration and I can visually see from her supporting documents.
This has been a long standing problem. Yep. The other of this is an interesting document I got from the assessor's office. So, one other thing he did, I can show you in the cards, he changed the grade of my house from c to c plus unjustifiably.
You and you didn't take permits out to change anything?
I did. I forget when exactly that was, but that was in the last reval he changed it to C plus And I received this from the town office building. It's part of the reval methodology handbook that's in the assessor's office.
I've got a copy of that. I actually made a copy of that when I was studying the rule.
Okay. So as you can There's see formulation for this whole thing. Yeah. So in it, it's got D, C minus below average, C and C plus average. And my house, because it's on a peer system, it would never be built because it needs a foundation. So it's below They wouldn't allow it anymore. It wouldn't allow it No. You're right. Mine either. Why would I get added to go a from a to a C plus when the architectural features, average quality, and terms, and that? I'll have a copy of that. Yeah. And it's got pictures of houses. The c plus. The c plus has a house with a foundation on it. My house does not have that. Why would I even be added? Why would my grade be changed to a C plus? It makes absolutely no sense. But you're saying now,
okay, I understand, at least from the perspective of your presentation, But your appraiser has given you a number that she said is a fair market value. Do you agree with her? Yes,
I okay. So I looked at some comparables because I've been in front of the BAA for years. It sounds that way.
Yeah, I can hear that. I wasn't on it every time.
Did. Sounds more of us than I do. Have you ever seen this amount of documentation?
Actually served on the BAA. Don't know if you guys know that. Yeah I served on the BAA. Well that's probably why you're doing a good job. So where's the piece of cake oh here's my comparables so before I show you my comparables on, I want to read number one of the pretrial brief of my court case that attorney Lloyd langenhammer submitted for the town of Andover So it says pre child brief. Number one, the subject property is located on a double lot. The double lot provides flexibility and value to an owner. The subject property, like so many others in older subdivisions, pre predate for the most part, zoning allowed for construction on a postage stamp sized lot. The oversized lot of the plaintiff gives to the plaintiff the ability to expand the dwelling. The plaintiff's appraiser knowledge is the trend current trend of maximizing the size of the structure. Well, I went to court with that, and the judge agreed with me because that's potential. And I wonder, since the town attorney submitted that my house is potential and the Connecticut statute 12 dash 63 clearly states fair market value, am I now also being assessed based on
this? Had this discussion on the board. And Georgette pointed out that how it's being used now is how we have to look at the land. Is that correct, Georgette? Yeah, pretty much. So, you have one house on your property. We cannot extrapolate into you're going to make it bigger or you're going to make two houses. Potential
doesn't count. Yeah potential doesn't count. Right so am I being now assessed on potential? I don't Because that's what they did the last time. Shouldn't I be. Because they put a brief into my court case that says potential. Right. And that's one of the reasons why I won because it's fair market I agree I've been researching a lot of this.
And I'm ready to make a motion if you want Oh good, oh good please. Oh you don't want to hear my comparable?
I'm overwhelmed already so I feel so bad that you've been going through this. Honestly,
I just don't know what to say. So one that I just want to go through the comparison. Go ahead.
And I have They're different than the comparables in the Well, one is the same that I want to point out.
What are the addresses? Because I tried to find some myself. I have three or four. And, concrete is cracked. Oh, yeah. Yep.
That's it. I think I had an estimate of $5,000 to fix the patio. Hold on. So I'm gonna show you the profile. I show you that's terrible. Oh, so I have I was so frustrated one year that I put all the legumes into a spreadsheet.
Wow. Yep. Yep. I've seen something similar Oh, from a relative of
did you? Yeah. Is there something else? It wasn't the lake though. Was the Hebrew Road. I won't even ask. So What are the I think
the problem with the formulas is the land values. This is the chart that, you look at the, property per acre dollar amount. This so for instance, there's 294 Lake Road. It's a small house. Point zero eight of an acre. Point zero. Point zero 8. And there's a house on it? There's a house on it. Yeah. Wow. Is that little greenhouse near Donny Row? I don't know if you know. I got I I'm not sure. Oh, I know where that is. Yeah.
So, the property owner bought that house in 2019 and paid 230,000 for it. The land value on it is 221, which makes it 2,700,000 per acre. And then larger homes are down in here. I mean, land on the ocean doesn't solve this. And so my land value is 534 per acre. $534,534.04
90 because I have point four nine of an acre. The land value that they have on my card is $261,900, which is $534.04 90. So, my last when I went to court, one of the properties that both my appraiser and the town's appraiser, Buckley, Chris Buckley from Buckley from Niantic. Niantic? Yeah, he's from Niantic. Linda Fortin's from Hebron, so she's more local. They both use 1 Lakeside Drive. And they both said that 1 Lakeside Drive is a better quality house. I've been in the house. It was redone. It has hardwood floors, nice fire. It has soapstone countertops in the kitchen. It's beautiful.
And this is the first thing I noticed in the reval. It has 1.08 of land, which is One acre. One point A little 1.01.
So it's double mine. Right. And per acre, it's 273,003 and 62. So when you calculate the land value that they have based on this formula, it makes my house now appraised higher than 1 Lakeside Drive. And I had two appraisers appraise my house lower because of the quality of the house that it is. Now because of this land value scheme that he's doing, I'm now appraised higher than this house. Wow. How is that possible when two appraisers Georgette, you can chime in at any time.
Well, I talked to him about that. And in fact, I think you did too, Alan, know,
when we met and he explained to us that land has no basis on the price that if he makes land 80,000, he just moves it over to the house to reflect that the building is still worth that value.
Well, can't, you cannot, unless it's a vacant lot, you cannot put a price on land without the house on it because you can't sell the land without selling the house. So I mean, don't know enough about it, but different pieces of land go for different amounts depending on what they are. So he did say if somebody has two acres and one acre is worth, what, 50,000 or 100,000, that doesn't mean the second acre that's attached to it can go for another 100,000. It would be lower. I know somebody just down the road from me, they paid $200,000 for that lot, and they had to clear it of all the trees and then bring in Phil just to start to build a house on it, and it's not an acre. So how do you judge that? I don't know.
I don't know. Okay. So let me explain something to you.
She's got a whole pile of papers here. Just trying to find the right paper. Sorry. No. That's alright. Well, Hey. We're here till nine. Value.
This I wanna show you this one. Yep. This one. Let me just get this. Oh, this is I need this. This here. Trying I'm to organize my paperwork. There's a lot to this because I just Oh, I know that.
Yeah. You gotta remember that. Fighting this forever. What we're trying to do is find the fair market value of something that is pretty close to yours because that's what we go by. Well, that's why I have I have that here too. I have that. Know, we can't get into the land values and the differentiates between the land. It's like, you have this amount of land, you have a house on it, we're gonna try to find a fair market value for you. But we're in agreement with you that it's not impossible,
that we're not looking at it as you could do this or you could do. We're looking at it as how you are. How I am. Correct. But I just wanna point a couple of things out. Okay?
So on this is the the appraisal report that was submitted to the court that the town's appraiser, Chris Buckley, did. Okay? Of your house? Of my house. Okay. Because when I went to court, I had an appraiser, and the town hired John's numbers do not get included in the court.
They hired Chris Buckley from because they need they won't get the appraisal stands for fair market value Fair market value. The
assessors. The assessors is a mass appraisal. It does not get sent to court. The courts do not accept the mass appraisal. Okay? So I have the whole report if you'd like a copy of it, but here's one page. In Chris's, report, it says that my land value is $50,000 because I have 0.49. He stated in court that the last reval, the land values at the lake were 100,000. He put it in the report and sent it to court. And here it is right here. 50,000 for 0.49.
For your land? For my land. Okay. And that was in 2006? The last rebound. '16. Right? Yeah. '16. Yeah. '16.
The land sales, 436 Lake Road sold for $3.10 on 04/13/2001. It was 1.81 acres, which is a hundred and seventy one two seventy per acre, not the 530 4 that he's got my land at. 24 Lakeview Lakeview, which is Lynn's property. She bought the property for 119,200 on 02/2520. It's 0.8455 acres, which is 140,000 per acre. Once again, that is not what he has. And and what went to court was last rebel 50,000 for my property because the lake was valued at a 100,000. And these land values will not hold up in court. It didn't hold up five years ago, and it's not gonna hold up now. So your comparables? Okay. So my comparables.
I'm not rushing you. I'm Sorry. Just Am I boring you? No, no, no. I actually, I was distressed by the first part of this whole thing.
So the last thing I want to show you is comparables. So we talked about 1 Lakeside Drive, which they appraised my house lower at. Now I'm appraised higher because of this land value scheme. 196 Lake Road sold for $3.30, and it's got a basement. It's got eighteen seventy two square feet. It went up 22%. It John has the appraisal at 367,300, which is 37,300 over the sale what the actual sale price was. 25 Lakeside Drive has 1,805 square feet. It's got a basement, oil, hot water heat. It's appraised for $365,400. It went up 27%. 320 Lake Road has $17.28, square feet. It's got a basement with oil, hot water heat. It's appraised at $387,900. And then the last one I have here is 17 Lakeside Drive. It has living space of sixteen ninety two. It's a has basement oil forced air. It's appraised for $3.72 500.
It went up Lakeside Drive? Yep. It went up Red Barn used to be. Right? That's where the Red Barn was.
117 Lakeside Drive. Oh, 117. That's me. Yep. That's you? That's me. Your house is bigger than mine. It has a two car garage. You're appraised at 372500. You went up 18%. I don't have a two garage. I don't have a two car garage.
So, it went up 18%. Mine went up 54%. I'm appraised at four twenty four, five hundred. And my house is smaller than all these houses I just told you about. I'm appraised well over four houses that are larger.
The two The car garage for my house. I don't have a two car garage. And then a one car garage, but it's attached to your house. I have 1,600 square feet of living space. Yep. So I have 1,400.
I have a dirt floor crawl space, so I don't know. Plus, you have to go down two layers to get to the lake, and you can't swim there. So that might have something to do with it. I only have 44, 46 feet of waterfront. You have 106, so you can't compare that. That has to take, you have to take it all in, Emily, all of it. And my house is really open. I
just think it's unfair and that somebody should look into a lot of this disparity. Georgiana, is your field card all correct too?
I haven't looked at it lately, but the last time I looked at it, it was. It hadn't been because they had me for a full basement and it's three quarters dirt floor crawl space. They had me for a complete second floor and it's not, it's only about half the house cause it's a cathedral ceiling. Assessor we had before John was taxing me for my hot tub on the deck. Other than that, that's all I've found so far.
Well, I'm just suggesting to Ms. Timrick that potentially the algorithm, because of the abnormalities on her field card, yours are correct, hers are wrong, and that may be causing that over evaluation. I don't know II. Don't know. But I'm just saying that I know Linda here has some
comments she wants to make. Oh, I'm just ready to make a motion. Go for it. Okay. And we want the assessed value, not the appraised, right? Yeah, the assessed value. I'm going to make a motion that the assessed value be changed to $2.47 800. I'll second that motion.
247, 800. Oops, 247. Oops. Many oops is $2.47, 800. Okay. Okay. All right. All in favor. Aye. Aye. I'm going to abstain again. So it's going to be 247,800, which this is what the appraisers values were, right? Yes. Okay. Is that 70% of that number? Yes.
$3.50 comes out to $3.54 appraisal value. Okay, let me do it back. I mean the right way $3.54 times 70% is $2.47 800. Okay, motion passes.
You're Please listen to me and I didn't have to go through court. Monday, I'll try to approach the assessor's office to try to get an understanding of why your card is so poorly. Yeah, that's that's a good idea and I would but I'm going to be going in for surgery on Tuesday so Yeah, yeah, I understand that. I won't be. But I'll go in and because in good faith. Okay. I can't be a member of the board listening to what I heard and try to explain to you as a citizen here that why. Right.
We don't have any answers, Emily. How's that baby doing? Oh,
good. Good. She's all go. Yeah. I'm friends with, Fran. I mean, Kathy
Fran was Oh, Kathy? Oh, that's how you know? Yeah. She sent she put it out on Facebook. Her great granddaughter. She
is the cutest little kid. I can't tell you. So Eric is married to her great granddaughter, to her granddaughter, I should Granddaughter, yeah. Okay. All right. I'll entertain a motion to
adjourn. Oh, I'll make it a motion to adjourn our meeting tonight. Second. Linda gave you a second.
Okay. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Okay. We'll see you guys on Saturday morning, right? Yes, you will. We only have that one guy for the Andover