Meeting transcript
IWWC - Public Hearing & Regular Meeting
April 4, 2022 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Well, make your public hearing pretty easy, George, if nobody shows up. Yes. Well, we have a quorum of commissioners,
but we have no public. So, I'm still going to call to order the public hearing scheduled for Monday, 04/04/2022 at 7PM to hear testimony and comments on the following proposed changes to the Andover Inland Wetlands and Water Courses Commission regulations. Present for the Commission myself, Chairman Elliott, Commissioner Jed Larson, and Commissioner William Monroe. Also present: Agent Wagner and Board Clerk Abby Winter. Seeing no members of the public in any form of this grid or waiting in the waiting room or otherwise showing any intention of attending this hearing. I believe we can wait a couple of beats and then call for an adjournment. Jed, we need some of the crowd from the Planning and Zoning hearings is what we need here. They seem to be a lot more popular. I bet you get a whole lot of folks coming out about the hearing on regulations on certain sorts of businesses that might be proposed for our quiet little town.
I do think we will have some interest there. Yep, there's a couple interesting things going on right now. Yep,
sure enough. Okay, so I'll move to adjourn the meeting. I get a second on that. I'll second it. Okay, so motion seconded. Commissioner Larson. Aye. Commissioner Munro? Aye. And I also vote aye, so the motion to adjourn carries unanimously. I'll now call to order our regular meeting The same participants. Anybody got any changes to the agenda? Okay, then next up we've got the minutes from 03/07/2022, regular meeting. Those were posted and distributed some time back, and hope you all have had a chance to review them.
I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes from March 7.
I'll second it. Okay, so motion and second to approve. Any further discussion? Seeing none, we'll get a vote on the motion. Commissioner Larson? Aye. Commissioner Munro? Aye. And I also vote aye, so the motion carries unanimously. Well, again, no public, so no public comment. And our new business consists, first of all, adopting or approving, as the case may be, the draft regulations. The revisions, just to make sure that we're all on the same page here, and because I've got a ton of revisions floating around on my hard drive, the version that I refer to is the one that's currently posted on the website. It's titled, full title is IWWRegulationsproposed revisednine. Nine. 2021 layoutrevisedrevisedseventeen. 2022. PDF.
I'm not sure if that's the one I was reading.
That's why I spelled it out, Bill, because I know that, as they say, there's so there have been so many versions floating around, but this one, you know, it incorporates all of our actual revisions. And then I believe it was Agent Wagner's hand in reformatting the document to make it look better and get all the headings lined up and whatnot.
Yeah. I just draft on the title and then the date so we knew which one it was. And then Right. Some of those page numbers were messed up, so I went and fixed those. And then, yeah, it was just it was just visual stuff.
Yeah, well this, you know, this document started out as a, I don't know, the old PDF which was scanned from our previous regulations, and lord knows it took a whole lot of effort, mainly while I principally, to get those get that scanned document into something that could be edited in Word and combing out all of the errors and replacing all the DEPs with DEEPs and so forth and so on. But I trust that after all those all that effort and all those revisions, we've got something that we can post without fear or trepidation. So I will move that we adopt
those revised regulations. Effective I'm sure I can't remember there's some time period involved. We still have to notify DEEP about the hearing and the adoption of the regulations, but essentially to be posted and promulgated as soon as possible. I'll second. Thank you, Commissioner Larson. So, is there any further discussion regarding the adoption of the regulations?
I do have a question. Like I said, I think I I was reading the Andover Inland Wetlands and Water Courses Regulation effective 07/01/2008. So that's not the right one.
That well, that is what we are currently operating under. The proposed revisions were again posted as such under that section. I don't have my web browser open at the moment, and I'm having a little problem with internet connection on my desktop computer. Abi, can you pull that up? I'm trying to do it, but it's not working.
So I have these here. I'm guessing you're looking at the top one here, proposed revised. Unless you're looking at the summary proposed changes to the regulations.
Right, well, what we are adopting will be in fact the the top line. Okay, the IWA regulations proposed revised layout revised, and that's what we're going to, you know, that's what we need to adopt. The summary of changes briefly, I mean, the summary of summary of changes is basically revising it to update in accordance with state statutes. There's one additional as of right activity: dry hydrants, such as used by fire departments or the emergency, water withdrawal, or I guess the installation of a dry hydrant is now in activity permitted as of right. There is some new language regarding situations where there conservation or preservation easements or other encumbrances on sites that might be looking for a permit for wetlands activities. There's new requirements for notification of adjoining municipalities and regulations dealing with essentially conditions regarding what time of year an activity can be carried out. So, for example, if we were permitting an activity that might have an impact on, just for example, some kind of amphibians, that we would be able to restrict that activity so that it wouldn't occur during times of amphibian breeding activity. And finally, there are new terms for expiration of permits. Again, these are all changes that are required by legislative action, new state statutes, revisions of state statutes, and so forth. I
see. Okay. I I I was reading about the the the I thought was interesting was the current inventory of the regulated areas, like in Andover, you know, like like Andover Lake and Pop River. And I was wondering why the two streams that are feeding the lake aren't aren't part of the regulated areas. Scugbrook and Cheneybrook?
Right. Well, of course, those are also those are subject to the 100 foot Upland Review area. And I don't know why they were not deemed to be of additional concern when the regulations were first developed. And again, there's been no proposal to change them that would affect our decision with the revisions tonight. Know, the document that you're looking at is what was submitted to DEEP and was the subject of the hearing, so we can't make any alterations at It this
does say Cheney Brook is one of the areas. Oh, so it should be it's it's G under there. So Cheney Brook and it's got Andover Lake Brook in parentheses.
Oh, okay. Oh, Andover Lake Brook. Yeah. That's considered Cheney Brook, I guess. Right. Okay. The other thing I thought you guys were going to be talking about the whole thing with the bond bonding and insurance do we actually do that we do we we have that kind of do we do that? I don't, I haven't seen that since I've been on the Commission.
Nor have I since I came on the Commission. I don't know quite what kinds of circumstances would call for it, but certainly we haven't seen any occasions where it seemed warranted. However, the regulations, you know, authorize us to do so, and again, that's a statutory authority.
I think that planning and zoning over in the gravel pit area, we put a bond on the property owner there just to ensure that there was money available at the end to properly restore that if for some reason the property owner just left and let it in a condition that wasn't what we were spelling out in the restoration plan. So we've got a little money set aside so that if they don't restore it, we can go in and get that job done and have it restored to the manner that we were looking for.
And be sure that it gets paid for. Okay, we had also discussed the application and permit fees. Those seem to be in line with what other agencies are charging and seem to be adequate to cover our consulting fees and so forth. So, there didn't seem to be any need to change that section. And other than that, they say the brief summary I gave you amounted to all that we were required to change. Okay, thank you.
Any further questions or comments? If not, we'll proceed to a vote on the motion to approve. Commissioner Larson? Aye.
Commissioner Monroe? Aye. And I vote aye. So the motion carries unanimously. We will move ahead, Adrienne Wagner and I, to get these submitted, you know, to notifymake proper notification to DEEP and to move the process forward in terms of getting these legally posted. They have to be deposited with the town clerk, etc. So, we'll make sure that those I's get crossed and those T's get dotted, and we can move on now to the other item of new business. The adoption and approval of a revised set of standard permit conditions. Now previously, in the regulations currently posted under 2008, the quote standard conditions are included as an appendix to the regulations along with other appendices that have some other legal advice. But Agent Wagner contacted Attorney Brantz regarding the inclusion of standard conditions in the regulations, and we were advised that while we could do it, and he had some pros, you know, someone particular reason for including it, but it's not required. And it seemed to me that we would have greater flexibility in dealing with what amounts to administrative procedures to keep them, you know, as a separate body
rather than including them in the regulations per set. The key is that if we have standard conditions that they be included in any sets of plans and that they be included in the permit approval so that they don't fall between the cracks. But on the other hand, if we don't do that, and even if they're in the regulations, then they can still fall between the cracks, because it's been pointed out that contractors working on landscapers working on-site are unlikely to have a copy of the regulations and standard conditions readily at hand. So, if we put them on the plans, then we know that they're there and that, you know, whoever's working off that page should be aware of those conditions. Another, I think, noteworthy improvement in the standard conditions was that under current condition number seven regarding soil erosion materials, the previous standard conditions called for a certified engineer, a PE, to be responsible for planning and siting. That seemed to be excessive for the types of situations we often deal with, for example, the placement of silt fence to prevent sand from getting into Andover Lake
from that project that we just approved. So, anybody should be able to follow best management practices there without necessarily having engineering certification. So, I thought that was a distinct improvement. Otherwise, I'll leave it open for comment on, the standard conditions. If anybody has anything that they should think should be included or modification of language, now is the time to bring it up. Agent Wenger, I believe you said that the Todd Wyndham also has. Do they have standard conditions for the board that you're on or Commissioner? No, not that I've ever ever seen. We just add conditions
as necessary, you know. Mhmm. We don't have, like, a set of standard ones that are
k. Some of these things are, for example, number four is, it's a statutory requirement. These are not unique to, you know, our regulations. I think it is a good idea to have a set that you can refer to as sort of boilerplate, and it doesn't preclude us from adding special conditions or, you know, particular conditions to an application approval as needed.
I agree. I think it's a great idea. I like it.
Sort of a shorthand, and again, it seems to have worked previously in the sense that we haven't gotten any complaints, and we haven't had any issues by simply referring to standard conditions when we approve permits. Okay, well, if there are no further comments or suggestions, I would entertain a motion to approve and adopt the, again, revised standard conditions full title IWWC underscore standard underscore permit underscore conditions underscore draft underscore nine period 29 period two zero two one.
Document I make a motion to approve and adopt the revised standard permit conditions that Chairman Elliott just enunciated. I'll second that.
Okay, and if no further discussion, I'll call for a vote on the motion. Commissioner Larson. Aye Commissioner Monroe. Aye, and I also vote aye, so the motion carries unanimously. We can change the title now from draft to adopted and post that. I think they're putting it in with the regulations as a under the you could say that it's an advisory document, you know, it's not part of our regulations, but it's something we want applicants to be aware of.
Yeah, I can put in, set up the website so that it's, you know, it's like right with the current regulations.
Yeah, that should be good. Okay, next item of business, commission vacancies. Well, we posted I contacted Amanda Gibson. She posted my little plea for volunteers. The response has been nil, and frankly I'm at a loss to see what we can do to recruit. I'm jealous, Jed, because I saw that PNZ has a full complement of members and alternates.
Well, and my recommendation to you would be I would reach out to Gary McCullough, who is now Yeah, right, the new guy in town. New guy in town who is very familiar with what the Inland West Coast. And he worked for me on the planning and zoning one time. There was a guy and he was not in favor of a subdivision we were doing. And he asked lots of good questions. And I know we didn't act the way he was hoping to. But after we were done, I emailed him and said, you know, you probably weren't happy with the outcome, but you certainly have a good knowledge of it. And I like your thought process. Would you have any interest being on the Commission? Right. Okay.
You want to put your oar in for real? Here's your opportunity.
Exactly. And so, know, Gary's neutered down. I don't know if he's retired yet or not or how much he's working, but might just be something right up his alley.
That's a notion. I will. I believe we have some contact information for him, think I'll reach out to him. I'll make a note of that. But yeah, I think, you know, obviously personal connections are very meaningful in this situation. Unfortunately, I've drawn a blank on that. Some logical choices demurred or otherwise active in other areas, other commissions or agencies. As it's been pointed out, you know, it's a small town and we have just as many boards and commissions as anybody else, and we have a lot of people already who are double dipping. Either you don't like being on Board of Selectmen and Board of Ed or Board of Selectmen and Board of Finance. There's Jed, who's the Chairman of P and Z, and on Inland Wetlands, ex officio, I guess, but
there's only so much we can ask of the people who are most active in keeping things running in the town. Butso anyhow, if you have any further ideas, just let me know if you have any personal contacts that you think could be induced.
I do have a question. Sure, Bill. Chairman George. Do they have to be a resident of Andover? Yes, you have to be technically
an elector of the town. According to the that's in the Charter. It is true for all of our Commission boards and commissions. You have to be an elector of the town. Now, I think that in the broader sense that an elector doesn't necessarily live in town. If you have property in town, you may be regarded as an elector. I'm not sure if that applies to memberships, because obviously it applies to voting on the budget. Yeah,
I think everybody that's on the Commission needs to be registered to vote in town.
Right, yeah, that's the key, register to vote in town. I mean, it's very efficient getting business done with three people, but that means that, you know, we have a bare quorum to make a meeting. If one of us is missing, well, there's no meeting.
Well, heaven forbid, what if I wanted to put in an application?
Exactly, and that it would affect the clock. It's true. We haven't had much in the way of application activity, one so far this year. Yeah, it's been been quiet. Maybe lumber prices are. Discouraging construction. Yeah.
I did reach out to was that Kate Casey Shay. I think it was 436 Lake Road, that new house that you had approved. I remember talking to him about asking if he was interested in joining the commission, and he seemed like he might be, but he hasn't they I don't think they're living. Pretty sure they're not living there now. So Oh, okay. I'm moving. He's not officially a resident yet. Okay.
But it's a good point, Joe. Keep keep in mind as soon as he is living there. You know Yeah. We'll reach out to him because we treated the guy pretty good, you know, and you've had a lot of interactions with him. Yeah. He did he did pause and seemed like he was thinking about it. So,
yeah, I'll definitely when I when I know they're they're all moved in, I'll probably try and reach out again or George. I
got the we should ask our our registrars of voters for a heads up when we have new voters enrolling. They send them a pamphlet. Right, they
would be the first to know. Right, yeah, as part of your voter registration package, here's an invitation to serve on the town commission. Okay, well, okay, so actually I will reach out to Gary McCullough and see if he has any thoughts on that. Okay, moving on. Agent Wagner, anything to report from your office? Nothing.
Nothing too crazy. There was a Gary McCullough called. They they finished the wall. They constructed that perched beach. Mhmm.
Posted pictures on under his application. If you wanted to feel Yeah. Came out pretty good. They changed the design slightly. He had called me and they used Belgian block instead of pressure treated lumber around the Perch Beach, but it was the same same size, same elevation, everything.
Again, price is right thing. Blocks may have just been a good move financially as well.
Yeah, yeah, and then, so yeah, so that's all done. He's just waiting to get a get some topsoil and put it over the old sandy area and plant some seed and stuff, that's that one's pretty much finished up now. They completed the wall pretty quickly. And then the other thing is that permit link online permitting. I remember talking to you guys about that a while ago. That's finally available to use. So it's the same application that I ran by you guys. That's on there. Everything's online now. I'm trying to figure out how best to My thought was to keep posting everything, all the materials on the website because they'll be posted. They'll be uploaded to permit link, but I think it's easier for
everybody to find them on the, you know, on the current form.
I think that that's a convenient form. Having things in a, you know, there's a, as it were, section where we can look for new permits. Each permit has all the materials posted there. It may be a little bit redundant, but again, I think you're right that it is convenient
Yeah. To have it accessible like that. That's what I was thinking. So I was thinking of kind of keeping that up and kind of trying to slowly work in. Like I have paper copies that are exact replicas of the online one that people could use if they don't have access to a, you know, computer scanner or something. So I was trying to, you know, instead of just going straight to the online, you have to use this computer, you know, maybe try and do like a hybrid form.
Mhmm. People that are We we we we still have to make provision for paper.
Yeah. That's my thought, so that'll that'll be kind of ongoing, but that's more on on my end. Right. But I think everything's gonna pretty much look the same on your end. So Yeah. If you have you know, if you if you if, as you say, you have a form
that gives you the same information, the same order and everything, then obviously that can be scanned and uploaded, and we can look at it the same as we would be looking at the output from filling out a form online. We'll get the same information. Yeah. Okay, good. Well, that's good to hear. I'll click over that way next time I'm on the IWWC main page. Did I have two questions, George? Go right ahead.
So when Gary puts his topsoil down over the sandy area, I'm hoping that he's going back to put some erosion and sediment control in on that too because that is all just going to wash down into the lake most likely otherwise, unless you've got something special there. I can't remember if that was in the procedure that we were talking about or respiration or not, but you looked like you just had a nice sandy beach area. I guess I'm surprised to hear that he was gonna put topsoil on it to to grow grass in that. Looked to me like he got exactly what he was looking for with beach. In a matter of speaking.
Yeah, I think he was like lightly. I don't think he was planning on like tearing it up and and removing it. I think it was more of the the stuff up above the wall that he wanted to put the seed in. Oh Okay,
Around that buffer area. Not over where the sandy beach is on there. I guess the other question I had, George, is if we could get hard copies of the new regulations once they're in effect that Good point. I could save a couple sheets of paper and not have to run it off on my own printer here.
Yeah, I could take care of that if you want. Okay.
Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. You can pass them out at our next real meeting.
Positivity rates headed back up. We're in the border today.
We've got a new variant. Yep. Coming right down the pike. So just when you thought it was safe to go on the water. Alrighty, okay, so is that it for
agent report and enforcement actions? Yes, that's all I got.
Well, then final, well, the next item on the agenda, recall that our next regular meeting Monday, 05/02/2022 at 7PM, assuming we have any business to take care of at that time. We'll keep you posted, if any applications show up in the interim. With that, we can entertain a motion for adjournment. I move we adjourn. Second it.
Okay, and that's nondebatable, so proceed directly to a vote. Commissioner Larson. Aye. Commissioner Monroe. Aye. And I also vote aye. So the motion to adjourn at 07:38PM carries unanimously. Abby, thanks for being here, and we look forward to seeing you in a minute soon. With that, I guess we can all press the little red leave button and say good night. Thanks everybody. Be in touch.