Meeting transcript
Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting
September 20, 2021 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
There we go. Okay. I was just going to ask Abby to get the recording going. So, we are recording 07:04. I'll call the meeting to order. Next on the agenda is roll call and seating of alternates. So I see an creme is here. Scott person is here. Steve Nelson is here. Lee Ann Hutchinson I do not see online and she was expected to to not be here so I will see Susan England for Leanne. And I am here, then as well. So Abby, that has Leanne, Anne Blanchard and Kevin Arsen not present this evening. Moving on to item three, addition or changes to the agenda. Does anybody have any additions or changes?
Mr. Chairman for the record Mark Brandt's counsel to the commission you may have a change but we'll see how it evolves. Right now you have on your agenda the modification of the DB special permit but my understanding is that Mr. Beebe is amending his application to be a class A kennel which is not a special permit and therefore does not require a public hearing. You haven't advertised a public hearing for that application but you should be okay with that and only the thing is while I have the attention to the commission I just want to introduce Andrew Moran. Andrew just joined our firm and has just graduated from law school and we are confident we'll pass the bar when we get the results next Friday. But he'll be attending lots of commission meetings to sort of see what it is we do. So Andrew is just listening in on us to see what's happening. Okay,
very good. And just so you know, Mark, it sounds like there's a little bit of a bandwidth issue coming. You do cut out now and then. Think we're able to get the intent of what you were saying there, and especially good news on the application for a Class A kennel not being a special permit. I was going to change the thing to approval of special permit for a kennel at 241 Route 6. Now I guess I will change it to approval of permit for a kennel at 241 Route 6. So Abby will just get rid of the words from between of and permit on the first action item and that will be the only change that I have to the agenda. And thanks for that timely input, Mark. When we were looking through our regulations this morning, Jim thought it was not a special permit, but we talked ourselves into it and that we thought we had a clever way of getting out of the public hearing. So you saved the day by making us just right. Thanks for attending. If there are no other changes to the agenda, call on the commission to you. All in favor of the changes discussed say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstain? Okay, so that motion carries five-zero-zero. Any public comment on anything that's not on the agenda? And I don't think there's probably anybody else here for that, but now's the time if there's a public comment. Okay, hearing none, we'll move down to old business. And the first item of old business is, Scott your permit for the type A kennel at 241 Route 6? So if you can run us through what's changed from the last time. I was looking online just before I got on for the meeting and I did not see
the updated form that we had discussed. So the other commission members are not aware of your changes, so now's a good time to let us know what you got planned there.
So after our meeting this morning, we realized that we didn't need the commercial kennel type C, and we actually need the commercial kennel type A license. So I'm looking to get permission to continue to run my business under the commercial kennel type A license with the opportunity to come in front of the board in the future and go for my type C license.
Okay, that sounds good. And Jim, how about running us through where we stand on the appropriate portions of the application there?
Sure. Would you like me to run through the checklist?
Not in detail. If you can just update us on those couple of things that we did not have checked off before our meeting today when we were just making sure we had everything ready to go.
Okay, I mean, spoke about lighting and there is some limited flood lighting for customers. It does not leave the site. Scott's operation is largely in daylight hours. Obviously, winter evening encroaches, but apparently what he has has been sufficient. I did ask the fire marshal for comment. They did not hear from him. So should the commission choose to act on the application, we could certainly put a condition in that in approval if that's the way they go, allowing for any modifications required by the fire marshal. There was discussion about heating and cooling and what it came down to was there are basically we're talking about pretty tough dough huts and they're just not in bitter cold, they're just not taken out into the heat, they're taken care of. It really is not an issue, doesn't appear to be an issue under state regulations either. Other than that, I don't recall any changes. Just got clarification on really the number of dogs that will be on-site. I believe Scott's original letter alluded to the number of dogs are there over the course of the day. And in reality, we regulate the number of dogs that are there at any given point in time. The maximum being, I believe 10 under the type A. And seems to operate under those parameters. That's about all I have as far as updating.
Okay. What I'd like to do in Abby, if you can allow me to share my screen, I just want to go through with the commission members the difference between the Class A kennel and the Class C kennel so we can all see why we're going to be successful here tonight, at least a better shot at it than we did before. You should have permission now. Okay,
thank you. Okay, so hopefully everybody can see our kennel regulations on the screen now. Yep. And so, you know, we looked through the definitions last time we didn't really talk about the type A kennel, but essentially it's designed for, used to accommodate 10 or fewer dogs. And when we were talking to Scott Beebe, you know, he sometimes has up to 20 dogs there a day to do the one hour training sessions. My take on the Type A kennel is that if he is boarding less than 10 dogs during the day and he's not boarding any of them overnight, even though he's got people that bring their dog in for an hour, have a lesson, take the dog away, I didn't think that fit in that number and I was satisfied that he met the requirements with the type A kennel by boarding fewer than 10 dogs. So that's the difference there. Last week, we went over the general requirements and so I'm not going to go over those again because if he complied with them for a type C kennel,
he certainly is in compliance for type A. But then we came down to the specifics for the type A kennel. And our regulations, and maybe that's a typo that needs fixed, special permitted uses talks about kennel, limited commercial, all these things here. But there was only three requirements for the type A kennel permitted in all use districts except the flood prone district. And we saw that it wasn't there. Minimum lot size three acres. He's got like 200 acres out there that he's using. And the minimum frontage rear sideline to the doghouse pin or run, you know, she'll be at least 75 feet. And he's, you know, got a couple of 100 feet there at least. So that's the type A as opposed to the type B for the type C
where we got into the requirement that the indoor housing facilities that comply with state registered commercial kennels be provided. So we were working hard on trying to figure out if there was a way to meet the indoor kennel facilities. There's not at this point because he's got five kennels in the barn instead of the 20 that he would have to have. And that's why when we decided to go the route of the Class A kennel, that seemed to make it fairly easy at that point to go in compliance with the regulations. So that's all that. We'll go back up and take a quick look at the application procedure and all the plans and data called for in the Planning and Zoning Commission application form have been submitted, including his check for the special permit. If this is not the special permit, Jim,
you can adjudicate whether or not we owe Scott any money back on that. The plot plan, same plan picture that we were looking at last meeting, The detailed description of proposed operations that is online. Is there anybody who didn't get a chance to take a look at that? Thought that was a good write up that told us what he wanted to do. Other information the commission deems appropriate. If there's anything there, we could talk about it It is fee for $65 And maybe that's just the fee to the town whether or not it's a special permit, I don't know. We'll hash our way through that, that's not the big part of the deal.
So, this point, you know, I would open the floor to the commission members to ask Scott Bebe if you have any questions or comments on his application.
I've read it all, I've read all the different classifications and I believe that that's just, was a good thing to do the type A.
Okay. Anybody at all have any questions for the applicant?
Mr. Chairman, just for the record, Mark Reince, there is a site plan that depicts what is happening there, what is proposed?
Yes, there is, and we talked this morning about making sure that that actually got filed this time. Okay, all right, good.
So if there are no other questions for the applicant, I'm looking for somebody to make a motion concerning the application. And I guess to speed up the process, I'll make a motion to approve the application for a type A kennel at 241 Route 6. I'll second that. Thank you, Scott. Any discussion on the application? Do you need any conditions? I
the only condition is that I'm aware of is it understood that the instrument I know you mentioned that there were five indoor kennels is that a limit? Could it be up to 10? As long as you're clear what you're approving that's all I care about. So
at this point he has five kennels in the barn and I think it was six outdoor kennels. And so that gets him up to the facility to handle at least 10 dogs now. As Mr. Beebe stated when we came on, he he would like at some point in the future to upgrade the barn or at least have the opportunity to upgrade the barn for a type C kennel, but does not have those indoor kennel facilities at this point. And so consider that he's got 11 kennels.
But what's it being approved now? Yes. Okay, do want to clarify, should the motion clarify that that's what's being approved now?
Well, the motion was specific that it was a type A dental. The condition of approval would be that we continue to pursue the approval by the fire marshal. And that is the only outstanding condition of approval that I think is appropriate for tonight. Anything else attorney brands.
As long as it's clear what, how many dogs or how many kennels you're Up to 10. Improving.
Up to 10. That's fine. Up to 10. And he's got the facilities to handle that matter.
Chairman Larson. Good enough, thank you. There's been discussion about the fire marshals weighing in on it, but I didn't really see it make its way into that motion as a condition. It was merely discussed as I heard it. Okay,
good point. And let me ask you back, Jim, with this being a type A kennel and not having to go through the Heinz fifty seven questionnaire of all the questions there, do we need the fire marshal's approval still? And it might be because it's such a lengthy driveway. I don't know.
No, I would say there's no specific requirement. It's just, you know, it's no, if it's not a special permit, then I don't see it falling under it as an absolute requirement. But he could certainly be added as a recommendation.
Okay. And I think I will allow you to follow-up with the fire marshal. Will not amend the motion to include the fire marshal on that. If the fire marshal thinks we need to have a bigger turnaround space or something like that, I'm sure that Mr. Beebe would be happy to comply with that. He's trying to run a good facility out there. And I'm sure that we'll get there. If not, we'll take care of that when he comes back with his class C kennel because then it will be a requirement. Any last discussion? Okay, we'll go call for a roll call vote. Anne? Aye.
Scott. Aye. Steve. Aye. Susan. Aye. And I vote aye as well. The motion passes 500. Congratulations Mr. Beebe.
Thank you all. I appreciate all the work and help to get here tonight. Thank you.
So I think Jim, you'll be ready to sign that form that Scott needs here like tomorrow? Is there anything you need before that happens? No, I'm fine. Okay, very
good. So that completes the first item under old business. We're going to move on to item B under old business, review requests for proposals for preparation of an affordable housing plan. And so all the commission members should have gotten, we got three proposals that came in. One was unexpected, didn't know about it until we went there to open them up on September 1. The other one was from a fellow named Don Poland. Both of those two submittals were very professionally done and they look very good. The third submittal that we got was from Bill Warner and while the first two came in at $15,000 Bill Warner's came in at 6,900. So, and if you, does anybody have any comments on the write ups that we looked through?
I reviewed all three was should I tell you who I'm most comfortable with or is that not appropriate now? Nope, this is a good time to Okay, read all three and both the Gorman in York and the SLR were very impressive, very detailed. I was actually not comfortable with the Gorman in York application partially because it seemed to be full of planning jargon, which was hard to pick apart and understand what they were saying. It wasn't really written in plain English, which made me concerned, especially when they did the public presentation, how clear it was and if they were just going to stand up there and
rattle dazzle people. And the other thing I didn't like about it was their payment plan, which was every month you would pay them a set amount of $3,000 It wasn't tied into completion of the various tasks. I have found in the past it's easier and you have more control over managing the contract if everything is tied into production of a document or completion of a task. Bill Warner's was not as professionally done or as razzle dazzle as the others, but what I have worked with him and the commission has worked with him for probably close to twenty years on the production of two plans of development and also when he was our planning our zoning agent and and I found that he was very easy to work with. He was very familiar with the different trends And just before I left the commission was when we were completing the latest plan of conservation development. He alerted us all to the whole issue of the affordable housing and the fact that Andover was currently facing a, he didn't call it a crisis, crisis is my word, that we were one of the older towns and there was a whole issue of, because of the way the housing stock had been developed and the zoning had been developed, the problems that this town was facing. He was really present in what's going on. So I'm comfortable with his work and I know that the products that he produces are high quality. So if I were to rank them, I would rank him first,
SLR second and Gorman you'll work third.
Okay, thank you, Susan. Anybody else have any comments on the three proposals that we received?
Yeah, I agree. I think SLR was the most professional, the most comprehensive, and the most complete out of the three. I don't have any background as you just described, you know, with the others, but, you know, having written a lot of proposals, I think it, you know, it actually included a, you know, a timeline. It broke everything down in detail. The other one that was professional, I thought just provided kind of a Rolodex of their capabilities of who they have on their team, but it really didn't, it wasn't a customized solution for us in our town, I didn't think. SLR also had some good, case studies in there, like the town of Mansfield, etcetera. So I thought it was the most comprehensive overall.
Okay. It was interesting. Well, it may have been an error. But when we requested the grant money from the state, I did not request $15,000 so we don't have $15,000 to spend. We did request a little bit more than Bill has listed there, the 6,900. And I guess if we had money left over, that would give us an opportunity to hire some legal service to maybe help us get the I think the plan is going to tell us what to go do and then we're going to be having to change our I don't think it's going to change our regulations for us and so I'm going to need some assistance probably after and there might be a little bit of money left over to support doing some of that. But certainly, you know, Bill Warner, as Susan said, you know, wrote our last two plan of conservation and developments and did do the section that we've got on our website on the incentive housing study. So I think the reason he can do it by himself is the fact that he doesn't have a large staff and that he has done all the background work and he's got a pretty good idea of how to get that to the finish line without it being a major production. So I'm kind of comfortable based on his letter saying how he is uniquely qualified there. So Susan, based on your recommendation, would you like to make a motion for the Commission to consider?
I would like to make motion that the Commission retain the services of William Warner to prepare the affordable housing plan for the town of Andover. Second test.
Okay, thank you, Susan. And thank you, Scott. Any discussion on that at this point? Hearing none, will call a roll call vote once again. Anne? Aye.
Scott? Aye. Steve? Didn't hear you Steve you might be muted. Sorry, I was on mute. Aye. Susan.
Aye. And I vote aye as well so the motion passes 500. Moving right along here. Okay, new business. Special permit application for 23 Route 6 at Network Inc. For installation of two gazebos. And I see Eric Network. I don't know who's behind the screen there, but if you can discuss with us your application there.
Oh, think it was late, middle to late June, we put in a permit. We purchased a few big What is your name, please? My name is Eric Adelczak. I'm one of the maintenance coordinators here at networking. I've been here thirteen years. So, you know, I feel like I know a little bit about the town of Andover and yeah, I was just surprised, I guess, how long it's taken. We we ordered these garden barn gazebos early in the year, just wanted our clients to have a nice, safe outdoor area, you know, to separate, to do in the fresh air, to get out of the sun, COVID and everything. Now it's pretty much the end of summer, and know things got a little lost somehow, so I'm not blaming anybody. No, just like a nice comfortable area for our clients. That's about it, I think.
Garrett, do you have the ability to show us the site plan of where the gazebos are in relation to the various things I see online?
It's all in the permits. It's all in the agenda documents. The first one, I think it's called 6 To 921 Gazebo that's the whole. The whole permit it shows the copies of the garden barn purchases.
But do you have that available to show to us if we allow you to share your screen? And if not, I can call it up out of our town website.
Yeah, you might as well do that because I have you on a different laptop. Yeah.
I have it here, Jay, if you want me to pull it up.
And that was you, Abby? Yep. Okay. Yep, go ahead and pull it up. That would be great. You want the site plan? Yes, please. Okay. Hold on just a second. You all can see that? Yes. Okay, great. I don't want to
go through that, Abby. Scroll back out for a minute. This is just the checklist and I will, so. No,
I was hoping for the very bottom thing on his application. Oh, there you go. That'll do. There you go. Okay. Yep. So how about you describing for us on there where the gazebos will actually be?
So we have We have two different diseases. One at that number one near the front parking lot. Okay.
That will be a 14 by 30 foot Gazebo. And then number two, towards the back corner, locked down, it's a 14 foot. Still in that same picture. Yeah, okay, I see it there.
Yeah, there. Well installed by the garden barn, they put down a crushed stone. It's in the, just scroll down to the garden barn receipt, you know, it says what they do for the site prep. We're getting a little walkway for wheelchairs over to the front one. I spoke to the fire marshal. One concern he had was a barrier of sorts between the parking lot and the gazebo, which is definitely a good idea. I do have one other quote that I just got on Friday. It's for a 20 foot long, 10 by 10 post, kind of like a 10 by 10 posts with four inch by eight inch rails. So something you'd see like a state park, basically a barrier of sorts that would be in front of those two parking spaces. Between the parking lot and the gazebo, just in case somebody accidentally stepped on the gas instead of the grid. There's no electrical going out there, nothing like that.
Okay. And as I recall, I saw on the website that you did have a letter from the sanitarian saying he approved the location for the installation of the.
Yeah the Eastern Highlands that they approve that I have that in there. Okay. The property part in there and added as much as I could. The septic should be plenty far away from the back of zero.
Okay, go ahead and close-up your screen so we can see everybody again here. And when I first heard about the application, you know, started asking myself do we need to go to the commission to have somebody put in the gazebo? And we were talking it over with Jim and they had a special permit for the facility that's out there. So we talked about a couple of options and then one of the good sides of the BB application is it got me looking into Chapter 21 of our regulations which is enforcement, But there's a paragraph in there that talks about, and it says, the Commission may by resolution permit the zoning enforcement officer to authorize minor non substantial deviations for from the approved special exemption and special permits. So
the decision for the Commission tonight is whether we consider this a minor non substantial deviation from the whole site plan that they went through to put up the facility, know, with all the parking lot septic, all that goes with it. If we did determine that it is a substantial change, the next paragraph in here states substantial changes to special exemptions, special permits, and variances shall be treated as new applications for approval and shall be submitted and acted upon in accordance with these regulations. So essentially, just like we would have done with the kennel, if he actually had an approval, we would have been forced back into submitting a new application anyhow. Those are the two options that we have here. We can either do a new application to put in the two gazebos or we can say Jim is the zoning enforcement officer and zoning agent, you go and handle the details of making sure that the gazebos fit in the in accordance with all of our regulations. And so with that, I will make a motion and this is to get us to the discussion point. I would make a motion that we do resolve to send the permit to the zoning enforcement officer to authorize minor non substantial deviations from the approved special exemption special permits which we consider the gazebos to be. Second.
Thank you, Steve. And so is there any discussion on that? I think that's a good idea.
Okay, Jim, do you have any concerns about taking that approach?
I don't. I mean, I essentially traded very similar to a special permit, walked through the checklist. I did actually, I have a comment from the fire marshal saying that he will be signing off on it. Okay. I have no physical sign off, I have a memo that's actually, I was copied a memo from fire marshal to the building office building official who was checking up on the status of it. And he says he I talked to the manager and he explained the plan for the barrier. Obviously he was okay with it. That's pretty much all I have. Okay.
So with that in mind, I'll call for a vote. Mr. Chairman, for the record. Ahead, Attorney Branch.
Just two items for the record Mark Brantz. Didn't have the benefit of seeing the plans in advance, are the dimensions of these structures clear? Because what I saw on screen I did not see dimensions. Are dimensions on the plan? The applicant just stated, he just said what he told you verbally what dimensions. Yes they're all in the permit. They were, is that on the plan? Yes Jim it is, okay the only other thing is I'm not sure which language Mr. Chairman you're reading from in terms of minor non substantial changes, but I do notice that section 23.1 special permit exception requirement says the Commission may waive the requirement for special permit exception where it finds that one special permit exception use is being substantive for another similar use to the same lot etc. The new use will require no greater parking or loading than the original, that's probably the case here. The new use should entail no exterior change to the building or site. Isn't this changing the exterior of the building or
site? No. No.
But sure sure it is. I mean you're adding two. How
can two gazebos not be changing the exterior of the of the site? Oh the site yeah the site. It's a building, there are two buildings. Attorney branch
They made the definition for buildings. My only concern is that I don't want somebody else to come back and say well you let other people add buildings to a special permit without a public hearing or anything why can't I? I mean it's the same they seem fairly minor it's not a question whether it's a good use or a bad use it's just a matter of what the right procedure is. So the paragraph that I was Was there another section you wrote we can't Mr. Chairman? 21Point7 Charlie. Let's see. Correct. 211Point2 You're breaking up. One. I'd be happy to read it.
I guess that's a question I mean when I look at 23 I see exterior changes I see what you're looking at and the question is whether adding two buildings is not unsubstantial. I think you have some discretion here just like I say my worry as your attorney is always that one that you know what you're approving that's always number one of my concern that you know where these are going and how big they are and what they're going to be used for as long as you're clear on that as long as the application materials are clear on that that's fine and then the procedure is the correct procedure. So I leave it to you. Okay And
I am always concerned about the precedent we set with every decision that we make. But I was comfortable looking at this from the perspective of if he were putting up a small shed, would we expect the commission to act on that? And certainly there's some place where we would draw the line. And I know at least one of these gazebos was fairly significantly sized. It's not small like what we would put in our backyard, good size. But I thought that I was comfortable with having the commission vote on was that a minor non substantial deviation from what we would consider a special permit application. And I thought that was a reasonable use of our procedures to get to the desired outcome. There's a couple of different paths we could have got there. I'm not sure one is any better than the other, but this is the one I chose to because you pointed me into this chapter to study up on the BB application. So I'm a lot smarter on this chapter now. So all that having been said, I am comfortable with the motion. It is up to the Commission to decide whether the Commission is comfortable with the motion. And with that, I'll call for a vote at this point if there's no other discussion. Hearing none, call for vote, Anne? Aye. Scott? Aye. Steve? Aye.
Susan? Aye.
And I vote aye as well. The motion passes five-zero-zero. Thank you.
Eric, you can get with Jim and finish up what we've got there. If it comes back to haunt me, if somebody gets us in trouble with a follow on application, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there. But I thought I was doing okay by looking at the regulations and getting something to standardize. Thanks, appreciate the time.
Okay, item of new business is the approval of our annual report. And I did get your feedback. So here's our annual report. You've all had a chance to read through that. Got two people pointed out one typo in there. I corrected that. And so I would like to make a motion that the Planning and Zoning Commission annual report be approved for forwarding to the Board of Select. I second it.
Thank you, Anne. Any discussion on the report? Hearing none, call for vote, Anne. Aye.
Scott. Aye. Steve. Aye. Susan. Aye. And I vote aye as well. The motion passes 500. Next item up is the approval of the minutes from 08/16/2021. Mr. Chairman, do need me to remain?
Say again? Do you want me to say I to stay unless you've got further instruction for your new member of the firm there? No, I
think the hard stuff is taken care of. I agree and I appreciate you showing up tonight. Thank you very much for your help. All right, thank you Mr. Chairman, good to see all of you. Good night. Good night. Good night.
Okay, I'd like to make a motion to approve the regular meeting minutes of 08/16/2021. So moved. Okay, Scott, is there a second? Second.
Thank you, Susan. Any discussion on those minutes? And I had no comments on there. I thought for Abby's first go at the meeting minutes, she did an exceptionally fine job. Actually, for any go at the meeting minutes, I thought that was an exceptionally fine job, not just the first go. So well done, Abby. Thank you. Okay, hearing no comments, call for a vote. Anne? Aye. Sky. Aye. Steve. Since I was not in attendance I will abstain.
Okay, and I vote aye as well. So, the motion carries four zero one with Steve Nelson abstaining. Next item up is correspondence. Jim, any correspondence there? No. Okay. Moving on to administrative reports enforcement actions.
At the last meeting, I indicated I was going to be sending a letter to Steve Barnett, owner of the property at 600 And Something Route 6. I did, I have not heard from him. I will contact him in person. Can't really follow-up with a cease and desist because I have to be a little more specific as to what I'm expecting to do. To remind the commission, there was a number of approvals for the particular parcel over the years for special permits to operate a number of different operations. I'm just gonna have to clarify where he is in violation. And I think primarily it's junk. And I will do that. I will have to find him. Actually, didn't call him. I did not call him. I relied on the letter and did not hear from him.
So I'm gonna follow-up on that. Other than that, just administratively, a fair amount of activity, people looking at lots, looking at to do various things with parcels that's rather time consuming. And we are transitioning to an electronic permitting system, which is probably going be very helpful over time. But like anything else, just takes a little bit of getting used to. But it's interesting because we're such a small town and people aren't there at the same time. So I think this permitting system is going to be a benefit in that respect, hopefully. Changes stuff. I believe the town has authorized and is advertising for an individual to work in the office twenty hours per week. And hopefully that will happen soon. In the interim, we do have somebody working there. Kathy Lund who worked there for seventeen years and came back to help out for a short period of time. So we're fortunate in that respect.
One other thing I just want to touch upon is, know, some inquiries about a commercial parcel on Route 6 and a number of inquiries that would involve application of the floating zone that the commission adopted. I think it's a great idea and I think it's envisioned as pretty complicated for a project, a single parcel. Just passing that on as an observation, that's all. Just a reminder or let people know who weren't around, the Commission adopted a floating zone, which it's hard to explain a floating zone, but essentially it's placed over a certain parcel of land, a defined parcel of land. It's a zone change. And then a special permit is applied for. The regulation allows for a lot of flexibility, allows mixed use, which isn't allowed elsewhere in our regs. Just reporting on what's happening out there. Just to kind of see what's coming in. And that's all I have. Okay, any questions for Jim? What parcel is that Jim?
The old bus property, big house on Route 6. Actually it's the one with the airplane on the back on Hutchinson Road. Oh yeah, yeah. It's running just on Hutchinson Road as well.
That's the one that they're wondering about the floating zone?
Well, people had inquired that, well, one of them wouldn't need it, but one of them I thought would require the floating zone. And I think it was kind of scary. And this is the White Tavern property, isn't it?
Yes. Yeah, okay. And it's an interesting parcel. It's got a number of outbuildings. It's a beautiful old house that is an asset to the town. And it's also got frontage on Hutchinson, which I think is, I worry about development on 6 and more curb cuts, etcetera, or more traffic directly off 6. So I have. Okay.
Moving on to item 10, commission discussion miscellaneous. Anybody got anything they think we should be talking about tonight.
I'm wondering if we're going to put the frontage and flood zone. Building in the flood zone on our agenda at some point. I think that we just need to put it on there and don't take it off Jed.
Okay, yeah, well, and there's probably other changes, that we're racking up a list of them. Was just reluctant to schedule the public hearing to do those couple of changes. I was hoping to piggyback that on to some other public hearing with other changes that we had coming out of the housing study, but we'll see. I've got what I think those changes need to be. I just need to get the most recent updated word version of the regulation so I can update it and show you the changes and that sort of thing. We can put that and carry it forward. I honestly thought that we would not get done with tonight's meeting
quite so early. I thought it was going go a little longer than the last minute. It fell into place and became rather a lot easier than I was expecting. So, that's that. I'm not sure how busy we're going to be with the incentive housing study coming up and how much work we've got to do on that, but I would expect that that might get started at the next meeting, too. I would like to, any other topics other than Scott's continuing to try and hold me honest to making those changes, I said I would. I did want to make a couple of lessons learned from the special permit modification process, and we hit it a little bit with the gazebo that I guess there's a couple of places we could have looked for guidance on that, but to modify an application or to modify a special permit, you've got two choices. We can either, it's minor and we turn it over to Jim or we start a new application. What we had with you know, the BB application was was approved by the Commission, his application, and the application had a pretty extensive set of drawings with it to build a nice kennel and all that stuff and after he got approval, one, he didn't file the final documents with the town hall, town clerk, and then he didn't build the kennel that was authorized in there. Either of those would have invalidated the special permit. So that's how we got to the point where it was not a modification of a special permit. There was no special permit to modify because he didn't file it, then he didn't comply with it. And so that took us a while to get through the facts of
we were essentially starting over with a new permit there. I think there might be some confusion too, I just wanted to mention it, that when we use a special permit, there might be some thought that the regulations don't apply because we're bringing it to the Commission. The Commission can do whatever they want. And that's not true either. The special permit really, you know, the significance of that is that buys us into holding a public hearing to get more information from the public on the permit. It doesn't allow us to not comply with any of the regulations or any of that kind of stuff. So we have to comply with all the regulations, but we also have to hold a public hearing and that's a significance of the special permit piece of it. So anyhow, I'm a lot clearer on that now. That might not be absolutely clear to all of you guys, but we'll keep talking about it each time we go through one of those and
make sure that we understand that whatever we do is rooted in the regulations and that we are doing our very best to comply with those. I am going to look for my calendar here just so we can talk about the next meeting I think is going to be on October 18. And that is all I have. So looks like it might be a record setter for getting done early. I appreciate everybody's help. Anything that I could have done to have explained the process better as we went through the applications tonight? Okay? And feel free to send me an email if you don't want to say you're on the Zoom call. But I'm always interested in how we can better, you know, share what we're learning there because I know it's taken a fair amount of time for the regulations to start making sense to me. I think I've got a little knowledge that's dangerous and that's why we get attorney branch to help us out on those kinds of things from time to time. Other than that, is there a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. The second. Second.
Okay, I think that was a Scott motion Steve second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Aye. Who opposed? I think that was a late entry. Yes, it was.
We're here to try it again. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, the motion carries 5 100. Thank you everybody and see you next month. Appreciate the help. Okay, bye. Bye. Bye everyone. Good night.