Meeting transcript
Board of Assessment Appeals - Appeals Hearing
March 5, 2022 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
Okay. First thing we do is a pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag to the flag United States Of America. To the republic
which it stands God, indivisible indivisible liberty, justice. Liberty, justice.
Okay. Is there anybody in the public that wants to speak? I don't see anybody else on, so we'll move on. Mr. Shah? I'm here. I
just became aware about ten minutes ago that you sent other documents because I don't usually check the email first thing so. No problem. Thank you so much for it. I wasn't sure as well and I wasn't sure whether I will have an opportunity to share to the screens and stuff like that. So I figured I'd share via email. So at least you have it handy and we can talk to it. May I ask for just one quick minute? My brother's supposed to join as well. I'm not sure where he is. He's he was struggling. He sent me a message. He's struggling to join it. May I just put quick pause for a quick second.
Sure, go ahead and call him and then I have to. I have to give you the have you take the oath of before he's absolutely I did, but he absolutely give me just a second. That's what I was hoping I'm gonna ask him. Okay. Good morning everyone.
Good morning. Hello. So I'm just gonna introduce us Georgette. Yep. So Georgette Conrad's the chairperson for the BAA in Andover. I'm a member. I'm Alan Roy. This is Linda Armstrong to remind we're down at the town hall on, on Zoom. Just so you know who we are. Sure. My name is Kiyushar
Shah, and, my brother is joined here, Kiyushar, also right here.
Alright. And the minutes are being recorded by Amanda Gibson. You'll see her on the screen as well.
Hello. Now are you both gonna be giving testimony or whatever about this small? Yes. Plaza.
Okay, then you both need to take the oath. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or solemnly sincere and sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you shall give concerning this case shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help you God or upon penalty or perjury. They do. Okay. Kara, are you going to say I do? Did you say it? Oh, he was It looks like he lost connection. Yeah. He's trying to build again. You're going to have to repeat it. Are you there, Kiar?
He doesn't have audio evidently. It looks like only one person can join with the audio. Looks like I'm the one who's gonna give because apparently he's he just wrote me that he lost connection. Okay, it looks like he's back. Okay, he's there. I'm back, I'm back. Sorry about that guys.
Okay. Do you solemnly swear or solemnly sincerely affirm as the case may be that the evidence you should give concerning this case shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth shall help you God upon penalty of perjury. I do. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Alright. Next. Now, you can tell us what it is you want to say.
We sent out an email this morning. I don't know if you guys had a chance to look at it yet or not. You just got it this morning, so we haven't really started it. So
I did did do I did do my homework on assessment, and, we talked to the gentleman who did his assessment and we told him the price should be much lower, not higher. And we give him the proof and apparently he didn't do anything. He didn't change anything. He just left the way it is. So we did our homework and we did a comparison cell, the current cell that happened in last six months or so with the same square footage and the multi unit buildings, strip malls. And in the email I sent out, you can see that that there is a two comparable sales we did. One in Meriden with the 9,750 square feet building with the five unit with the recently sold as the last week on 02/28/2022. It was the year build was exact actually one year from 1972, which is one year younger than one year older than our building. And the building got sold for $390,000 and that comes out to be $28 a square feet assessment rate. And the second
comparable sale we did in different town in East Hartford with 100 square foot more than our current building, 12,800 square feet with six units rental property, six unit commercial, exact same thing as us as a street mall. And that building got sold in last August 2021. And it was a much newer building than ours. It's built in 1988 and it got sold for $760,000 and that comes out to be $40.5566 cents assessment rate per square footage. So my building, going back to my building, my building is 12700 square feet and it's much older building. It was built in 1973. The difference between my building and East Hartford Building is my building is just a metal building and East Hartford Building is actually brick building. So currently I'm getting assist in the I'm the new rate that the appraisal company is trying to charge me per square feet, it comes down to be $45 a square feet rate that they're charging me my assessment. And I'm coming here in front of you to say that the lowest the current buildings, there's two buildings that I have comparable salaries, the lowest got sold for is $28 a square feet and the highest one it got sold for $41 square feet of assessment rate. And Andover is trying to charge me or the new new car not Andover but the new company is trying to charge me $45 per square foot. So I would like to request you guys to meet in Silver and Middle. Realistically, guys should or please look at it the way this appraisal completed assessment.
Okay. Could I I would I would would add one more. Sorry. Go ahead. I want I want to add a couple more points. Right? It's not just the buildings and recent sales, but the overall how industry has impacted us. That's what I want to bring to light as well. Number one, that we bought it pre pandemic, which is great. We assume the teams and businesses will go on as usual and pandemic will never hit us. As pandemic began, with town population of 3,500 people, as far as my research shows, along with the we rely on major highways to drive by people, working people going to Hartford and stopping by at our businesses, That has dramatically reduced last over the couple of years with the pandemic. Not to mention that recent vandalism in a town had forced businesses to shut the doors to the point that they only do takeout, only they do not even allow people to serve it. And this is all happening to all of my renters.
And because of that, you know, it has significant impact on us as well on overall renters and, you know, we give them all the incentives to stay with us as long as they can, whatever they can, because we don't wanna end up losing or don't wanna call a bankruptcy as well because of this reason as well. So there's a lot of stuff has changed dramatically with the pandemic, how people travel, how we get the business and how the plaza stay survive.
We just wanna put that forward. Okay, now according to the field card, which I wanna make sure is accurate, it says you bought it in May 2020. The pandemic had already started. Is correct ma'am. It was already shut down for two weeks and all that stuff. There was no way you could have known how long it would go on obviously. Correct.
850,000 and you're only being appraised at 814,000. So it is dropped.
Absolutely. So we, we, when we bought a we got in a contract about a year ago, based on projection of the sale based on projection of the rents and based on everything else that was happening as normal. So when the pandemic started, yes, our dates, matter of fact, moved. It was on a day of the closure of the entire state started shutting down. So we were way far into the program that we wouldn't have known. We think this is like a fluent going to get over within a week or couple, right? We never thought that this would go on like this. So our projection, our purchase price, and that's why I said we are giving out whatever we can to keep the each renter in the building. We paid the price, and now we are kinda struggling to pay and doing our best to pay it without calling a bankruptcy. The challenge is that, you know, to keep keep keep the renters in the building. The minute I start losing the renters,
I will start start losing the whole battle with the with the, know, banks and everywhere else as well. So yes, we paid the price pre pandemic based on what the rent and everything else was going in the market. Everything else was just rosy. As the housing market went up in overall, the commercial market dramatically come down because of the people and the behavior and how is shopping has changed.
Okay, Alan and Linda, do you have anything you wanted to ask them or?
Do you have a certified appraisal? I mean, I know you're we haven't really talked about the mall itself, but we're wondering if you have anything independent of your own opinion from a certified appraiser saying this is the value.
I'm absolutely happy to get one. I was not educated. I was told to bring on the nearest cell to the hearing based on the appraisal company. What do we exactly show? This is show exact same material to your hearing, but I'll be happy to get within over the next two to three weeks certified appraisal without a doubt.
We have to have the conclusion of our hearings done by March 31. So I don't know how much time you have. Okay. But certainly, I don't know if is there when you bought it for 850, were there any issues that glared at you? Like, the roof is falling in, there's water pipes are broken. I mean, you know, were there any So
when we bought it, there was no issue when we bought it. The issue started now. Example, the dance studio currently has heating going off every day. So you literally have to turn it on and everything turn off everything. Now, according to her lease, she's supposed to change or take care or maintenance her heating to run the business. Now she's thinking the new quote she got to fix it is $15,000 she got a quote. And she said, I'd rather go out of business and then fix it. So right now we are in negotiation trade that as a landlord, should I take over that 15,000? Her burden, because she can afford it. Because in pandemic, she lost a lot of business and she still stayed there.
And now she having this issue. The pipes keep getting freeze during winters outside of pipes in town, not town, but in the plaza for the sewer line. So, the two people in the plaza, two tenants had to pay over $3,000 over this summer. So, they had to hire somebody from next door town, Columbia. They had to hire somebody for to fix it. They couldn't fix it inside, so they had to call me and now I had to take care of the outside bill now. So, was no problem when we bought it, but there is a lot of problem that is being recognized now. The building itself is not insulated at all inside. So all the tenants are using a lot of heat. So we are planning to do that as well, making more energy efficient the building, but as the tenant comes up and tells us that this is an issue they're having,
so now we are learning all these things now.
Bottom line, we try not to lose any tenant so ever. Right now, we cannot afford to lose any tenant in this time. I I understand that, but we gotta
when you bought the building, did you finance the building? We did.
Okay. So in financing the building, did the bank or finance group ask for an appraisal? They performed their own independent appraisal. Yes. Right. Okay. So what what was it? What what did they put for a number on it?
I don't have top of my head back then. Tushar, do you have it anything? Believe it was my head. No. Yep. But I was or it was around the same price. Yes.
So you're saying you paid the same price that it was appraised at? Correct.
Yes. And that And that was in what year? It was '29 2020
we bought it 2020. Right, Kaye? May 2020. We bought it May 2020. The appraisal may have been somewhere around end of twenty nineteen. October, November 2019? Correct.
Because all the The the taxes the the examination of your tax obligation is from that same time period. Not now post pandemic, but back during the pandemic. We have to, as a board, take that into consideration. Where were we then? And so you're telling me that your financial institutions appraisal was $850,000
It, it, when we bought it, yes, correct. And, and so
we, as a board are only interested taxation principles. So business models aside, I understand what you're saying that it's a bad climate for businesses. I own one. I understand. But at the same time, board can only speak to the value of your property in Andover. And what we most assuredly go on is it has to be on a prop, a proper appraisal, which your bank I'm sure made you do. And it has to be within the timeframe of that tax review, which was when you bought it. So unless there's some major calamity, you know, the, the, the whole top fell in like the civic center or something's happened. You know, we are hard pressed to come up with a reason
to do that. Mean, am I wrong Georgette? Am I, no, you're absolutely right. So it's that and it has up the grand list of twenty twenty one, not 20 Understood. 20
I respect Alan, I agree that, you know, we have a, we have a bounds and we we have to make a decision. And as you asked earlier, you know, certified appraisal, we will definitely, first thing we will do is because you definitely mentioned the very good things, and that is calamity. I don't know if pandemic is called calamity or not, but to us is absolutely it is as owning it. What was 2019 and appraisals were going, if you were selling the houses, what you were selling right now, is dramatically different. You can recognize that as owner of the house and owner of the business, right? If only it was educated to us, we'd be happy to get it. But again, I will do anything and everything in our influencing power or whatever it is in spending, and we'll definitely go out and get one paid appraisal and whatever that price, we will respect that and we have no problem with it. We have no problem with it, you know. And if it comes down to $8.50, then we have to take it further out, discuss with our attorneys and get it from there. But it's just not sustainable at the point.
I have a question to ask. Go ahead, Georgia. The prior owner also owned the liquor store business. Do you guys own that too? Yes. I I own it. Not not the
not the cure, but I own it. Yes. Basically we two brothers. Yes, he owns a liquor store and I own the building. Yes. Okay. Just want checking because I knew the original owner and then the next owner and they both knew the liquor store portion.
And we have a complete get the same. Absolutely we have a complete interest in a town local and social and that's why we're trying to stay rested in this, not just as the property owner, to be honest with you and that's why we both are here we have a long interest in the property and the business, and we want to stay in the community as long as we can. Okay. That's all we are asking. I
to let you know that businesses that are valued at over $1,000,000 do not have to come here. They can go right to the court to appeal. But because your business is under 1,000,000, you had to come here first. Okay. So if you don't get a satisfactory
answer from us, you are you can go to court. That's totally allowed. Okay? I'll be honest to you. I'll be honest to you, Georgette. I'm trying to avoid any additional cost that we have for you and and trying to stay within within within our bounds. I just wanted to let you know your options. Okay? Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
I have one question. Did I hear you say before that you went to the assessor and he agreed that you were being assessed too high, but then he didn't change it? I thought I heard you say that.
Had previous discussion with whatever the company was doing the appraisal for the town vision vision, we have had a discussion we presented all the all the details and options and talked about it and and and discussed about it and he suggested it that he will take a look at it, and he will adjust it and give it to the town. If, and he also provided option, if we, and if we are not satisfied with the revised assessment, we can certainly bring the same facts to the town committee and discuss about it and they will review it. Hence, we were not educated about certified assessment. So we brought the same material back in front of you to request for the appraisal because he did not change a penny on it. And I'm like, what was the whole purpose of the vision doing the review? To me, I asked a very basic thing. What this is based off of? Grand list is all the great, but what this is based off of the current comparable sales?
And he couldn't provide anything to it. He says they don't do the due diligence to that point.
So Georgette, would you be open to let them get a second independent appraisal short of their financial involved bank? And as long as they present it, say by the nineteenth. Yeah.
That's fine. We we can take a look at what it is.
Yeah. We have two more we have two more times coming up the fifteenth. Right. And the nineteenth. And get it by the nineteenth.
We will listen to it again. I truly appreciate the opportunity. I'm not sure what the time frame do I have between round 19, but I will do my best to get If I can't, then I will at least let you guys know that I could not get it during this time, but I will still continue to pursue for it because assessors are hard to get hands on in this market, but I will do my best to get one appraisal and present it to you. Whatever it is that is, we will honor and we'll continue on. It's higher or lower, I mean, understand. And one of the factors we look at with appraisals
is as local to us as possible so they know the conditions of the market in this area specifically. If you hire someone from Greenwich,
you're not gonna get the same comparables. I completely agree. Do you have one in mind? Matter of fact, that's what I was going to ask. Do you have one in mind? Before I I can't recommend any. That wouldn't be ethical. Okay.
I know that if you were to call any valid, like, real estate firm, they all have listings for commercial people,
and they'll offer them to you. This this board can't do that. We completely. Again, I'm I'm looking for I understand it within the boundaries. I I'm just looking for whatever you guys work with it and respect it. I would go out and get it from them. You know, I wanna Okay. And we're willing and we're willing to hold you in abeyance until the nineteenth. Okay. I'll I'll do my best. Alright. We'll go from decision on the nineteenth with or without
your Right. Okay. I truly appreciate it. I truly appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity. I have one more I have one more last question is that Sure. I I believe when they do the appraisal and when they look at the when they do this assessment, they do look they do look at the current condition, and I believe they look at the current comparable sales with the, I believe, I understand you said it something about that you're looking at 2020 tax thing and you're assessing on 2021. 2021 and twenty twenty one grand list. Yes. So that's what I'm saying that I think that as far as my understanding goes that did you I believe the assessment purpose of the assessment, they do compare the comparable cells. Right?
I'm not sure what you're asking. Yeah, I can't. Like a comparable sales,
like so when another property, like just like my property got sold,
or in surrounding area, they do, they do count the comparable sales, right? They would compare it to other businesses. Correct. Right yeah. All right so we're just saying that that a local person whoever you choose they could be Hebron they could be Marlboro they could be East Tatum they could be but within this area, they'll have a better understanding of market conditions at that time. Got it. Right? Yeah. And this if get that information, they should be able to get together an independent, not connected with your insurance, not connected with your financial institution. Totally independent. Absolutely.
All right. So we'll put you in abeyance and the sooner you can get it done and into the board. So we have time to review it, it would be appreciated because getting it at the last minute, it's really difficult to do you justice
and the town justice. No. If when you get it, you you should really like, can you email it to the town clerk in Andover? And then she will disperse it to the three of us. To all of us. Okay.
Yep. Well so we'll go out. We'll ask ask to the appraiser and have them not only provide it to us, but have them also provide it to you guys so that directly coming from there. We'll do our best to get everything. We thought initially that what we provided to Vision transferred over to you, but looks like it's not. Vision did their own and they kind of just like, you know, stop that there. They put the values in and pass it on to you. We only thought today that would be very helpful for you guys to view it. So that's why we shared it. We assume that Vision already has shared with you this information. So that's the problem that we are running into it, that multiple parties, many hands, spoiling the broth. That's what the challenge is. But we will ensure with going forward that we directly send it to the counselor and call this material, and we go from there. Very good. Thank
you for educating us. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. We love to stay in town. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Bye bye.
Okay, guess that's it. Alan, I just wanted to say I had made another agenda that I evidently never sent in, and on it it said conduct any other business as needed by the BAA. But when I looked out on the website, that's not what it said. So I did not we couldn't have done any decisions today based on the agenda that I put out there. So Did the town attorney speak with you? Oh, yeah. He called me after he talked to you. He always does. And Okay. I filled Linda in on that whole discussion. So Yeah. And it's fine. And and what I plan to do when when we go through the ones that we have to make the decisions, I will allow them to bring anything new that they did not present in the original. Just like these gentlemen. Yeah. You know, that's fine.
Right. But I don't wanna rehash the whole No. No. I understand.
It's it's a we as a committee, as the three of us will rehash with whatever's presented, you know, amongst us before we vote. But having said that, if they have something new like this gentleman and his brother are gonna come in with an independent, But it again, I I wanna see it before the meetings. Right. Otherwise, I can't give it Yeah. This came too late to really Yes. It did. Yeah. And and I understand what he's saying, but I can't look at market conditions now. And trends in shopping. That's not what I'm interested in looking at. Did you know, I mean, I didn't even have a field card on them, quite honestly. And I didn't know You what do. The So do you know what the previous year's assessment was? Was it $8.50? Was it less?
It was bought in 2001. The Botticelli's were the original. Botticello's original and they sold it. I don't know the guy's name, we called him Henry. 2,001 for $6.50. And then they bought it in May 2020 for $8.50. 50.
And just as an aside, during the pandemic, liquor stores had made a fortune. That's why I wanted to know whether or not. Yeah. Yeah. I understand that. Yeah.
Just a little thing to throw out there, you know. I thought they did because that would keep them in business. And less domestics. Yeah. Yeah.
Alright. So do we have any other biz oh, there's a new alternate now. I understand. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Bob Hamburger.
I don't know him. Bob? You know? I know Bob. Yeah. Yeah. Bob hamburger. He, he evidently was on planning and zoning. He's been on planning and zoning and, he's an engineer and that's fine. I, I think that's a very smart guy. Yeah. And so I don't, I'm not sure. I'll have to contact Jeff McGuire and find out how I, how we start having him come up to speed on the two of you, you and Alan.
So my understanding is the zoom is the meeting that my brother and I presented at is a zoom meeting. So he just needs to Yeah. Bring To a, to a portal that'll open up to that meeting and watch it in its entirety. Then all paperwork submitted is offered to him like a member and he gets a chance to review it. Yeah. And then you'll set an agenda, whatever the agenda date is, where those two reviews. Right. I would say, I would suggest to you that you check with him. I don't know what his availability will be based on what we've already set. Right.
So I don't see it. That's the thing. I don't have I don't have his phone number. I don't have his email. I don't know anything about him. So I'm gonna need to contact him. And I we may end up having to set another meeting date for you and your brother. That's what I that's what I would anticipate. Give it full attention.
Right. So I'll leave that all up to you guys to figure out, and you're gonna let us know. You'll send out the future agendas for the fifteenth and the nineteenth, who's coming in, blah blah blah. Well,
I I have I've typed up letters to send to there's actually seven, I think, and now now eight. 1234567. Yeah. Seven that we need to decide on, and then eight with this one. So I have already done letters stating that Thursday, March 15 from seven to nine, and Saturday, March 19 from ten to one, we will be making the decision so that they know they can and and I, you know, put in the website so and told them how to click on the calendar. Are you assigning each of these people a time? Like, you come in at ten, you come in eleven, you you know I have not because I don't know how long it's gonna I mean, not even don't yeah. I don't even know which date, but I I'll come up with that. Thursday, the fifteenth would be the first, and I figured we do like Janice Proll and Mr. Panorfi and Mr. Bernard because those were the first three. Okay? Yep.
And I've I got got a call at home yesterday, and Grimaldi has gotten a copy. Their their loan their construction loan was released in quarters. And so the first quarter monies were used to build the building to what it was in the fall. So she's provided me with a copy of that. And I also asked for, because the construction loan will account for outside money, but I don't know if there's inside money. In other words, did they pay out of pocket for certain things? So I asked them if they would present a list of expenses that they've had to that point. So we can consider that as an investment into the project that they've got going and we can look at it both financial and personal together. So she said she was going to leave it in my mailbox. And what I'll do is I'll bring it to Carol Lee if it's, it gets put in there today, which I'm hoping. I'll bring it to Carol Lee on Monday and she can disseminate it to Linda himself.
Okay. All right. That's fine. Yeah. I can try to assign I can try to assign times and dates, but I'm not sure if they can you know, if they'd be able to make it, if that would be better to say, you know, Janice Proll, you'd be on
Thursday? Well, would say you you as the chair should assign them the date and possibly a time. If and if they say I can't make the morning, I can make it two hours later, you know, give them that leeway to tell you that. Okay. Alright.
Yeah. They they don't usually make appointments for decisions, but we can do that.
But, yeah, but as as the town attorney explained to me, it's it's still active until we close discussions. So when they come in, remind them they're still under oath. And if they're presenting any new information, it's under oath. Right. And then we close the discussion and then we three or you three, Yeah. We'll take it up a discussion regarding it. Okay. And and then we'll do the voting.
So you're already doing Janice, Pearl, Panorfi and Bernard on Thursday night. Yep. And then we can do Bramaldi and, Pam Haydn and the new, Le Givon Yep. On that on Saturday. And then you'll come up with one for, Daniel and myself. And I can come up with a it would be better to have it separately. Right? Do you think?
However you want to do I can't be there for Daniel's.
And it'd be easier for Bob because he's gonna have to be only at those two. You can observe, but you can't speak. It's Right. You can't both.
You can't So I would say, I mean, you could do two in one night. I don't think it's that complex. I would, I would expect my brother to be amicable for whatever you present. He'll make time, even if he, you know, no matter what it is, I'm sure it'll make time for it as well. I, and I think that way, you can get both of us done in the same morning or evening, then Mr. Hamburger doesn't have to schedule two appointments.
Just one. That's what I was planning on. I just didn't know if we have time to do Can we get that the on the nineteenth, which is Saturday. Yeah. What other date is available for you two if we couldn't get them all done? I don't know how long it's gonna take. Well, it's gotta be before the thirty first.
Oh, I know. So it would have to be the nineteenth is the second one. So if you did it on a Saturday, it would be the twenty sixth. If you did it on a evening, it would be something in between there.
So I can't do the twenty second, but I can do the twenty first, twenty third, twenty fourth or twenty fifth. What days are they? Those are Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
I would have to check to see when the community room is available for you guys. What do you have available in the twenty second? Okay. So, Alan, not '22. So Linda's telling me
that '23 and '24 would work for you. One of them will, but I'm gonna have a meeting on the other one. Okay. It's not a huge deal, but just a Democrat town committee. The twenty second. Is that a Monday? Tuesday. Oh, Thursday. Okay.
Just so you know, have the board of finance meeting on Wednesday, the twenty third. Alright. You can't have.
May 4 is a Thursday. That's via that's via Zoom. Just if you is this for an official meeting or?
This this would be for my brother and myself, Amanda, and the the hearing officers would be Robert Hamburger, Linda Armstrong,
and Georgette Conrad. We do it at six. Okay, just because I'll be clerking the board of finance meeting.
Alright. No. That's good. And and we're very appreciative of your work. So But what Linda saying Thursday, the twenty fourth at 06:00. That available?
You wanna check with Mr. Hamburger to see if that works for him? Did Amanda say that was available?
It looks like it. Sustainable CT committee has a regular meeting at six, but they've been doing them via Zoom. So we can confirm.
But you're going to be. Can you do both zoom meetings or?
Yes, we can. Okay, Thursday at six. I'll check with Mr. Hamburger. We have two different town accounts, so you can have two meetings at one time. Okay. So Georgette.
Yeah. Linda is texting Mr. Hamburger in regards to the date and time. Okay.
And see if we can get an answer back that way we can lock it in.
Okay. And you can let me know if you get an answer even a little later. She's doing it as we speak. So if we just. Well, he answered this one. No, Amanda put that up there. Oh,
yeah, I also I emailed you his contact information I had it from planning and zoning. Oh, good.
Very good, then I'll be able to touch bases with him. If this doesn't work, we could do the following Saturday, which would be twenty six. As long as I get the letters out the next day, we're good.
Does that work for you guys? Yep. We're I'm just doing it on my calendar.
Okay. And just bear with me just a second here. Sure. I just wanna have an alternative in case
So the Saturday you're suggesting would be the twenty sixth? Yeah. Okay. Yep. Okay. And twenty sixth works for you? Yep. So we'll do it on the twenty fourth in the evening, which would be convenient for my brother. Don't know his plans on I I I don't know his plans on the twenty sixth at this point, but we'll try for the twenty fourth.
On the morning at 6PM? Yeah. Is that a seven? Yeah. Okay.
I have another meeting at seven so I'm hoping to do it at six. If we do the twenty sixth, what time? Ten? Ten's fine, yeah. If we do it on the twenty sixth, George, it would be 10AM.
Right. I have that, yeah. Okay. You said you have another meeting at seven? Yes.
You think we could get that them both done within an hour?
If we can, I can be late to the other meeting? It's right next door at the firehouse. Okay. All
right. Alright. Then we're Not a huge deal, but, you know, it'd good. We'll plan for that. And Mr. Hamburger's available, I'm available, and you're available.
I don't know about Mr. Hamburger. We're trying to find out. We're she texted. Okay.
We haven't heard. We'll give him a minute, you know. So I don't know if attorney O'Brien mentioned it. I asked him, we were able to locate Timrick versus town of Andover case in its entirety. It's 96 pages of transcript, which was all conversations during her trial, which we think is educational. And he wanted the town attorney was, was asking to get a copy anyway. So I said I was able to locate it and it's $166.25. So I asked him if we could perhaps buy that for the town and use it as a training piece for part of the BAA training to understand what happens at blah, blah, blah. So he, he said he thought we could. So just letting you know to see what you guys have for an opinion on that.
It's not a bad idea, but it's only one case, you know, that No. I realize that we It's not a standard like, you know. Yeah, this case
would represent the town, you know, and how the court reacted to what transpired. So you kind of get a sense of how the court is looking at this and how we could best work our position to give the town of Andover the best representation. Because my understanding is each case is costing the town around $20. So if we send 10 cases to court, right, that's $200,000 And that's not in the best interest of the town if their tax doesn't go up, You know, so by having this information at hand, I think it's, it's a learning and the town attorney agreed with me. That's what he said. And he said he thought it was an appropriate use of town funds to have that case. Monday I intended driving to New Britain Superior Court to pick it up. Okay.
Are you okay with that? I did. Oh yeah, I did. I mentioned that to the assessor's office that, you know, try to keep these cases out of court. And what was said back to me was, well, if you knock down $200,000 in the grand list, you're still losing money for the town. So it's a wash.
I don't see it that way. There's also the good, there's also the good faith element. People that are aggrieved came through the representation process and feel vindicated. It's a very positive feeling, you know, that this government works for the people with the people. True. You know, so I think I don't see it as a wash
at all. Well, that's my opinion. My concern is if we take a lot of money off the grand list, it will cause the mill rate to not come down as low, which makes the other people have to pick up the tab.
Well, yeah, but it's appropriate. I mean, if someone's value is really set too high and it comes down, it's it's not crazy numbers. It's normal. It's an appropriate number. So what you're describing is you're saying if someone's overtaxed and we lower it to the right number, someone else will be burdened. And I don't see it that way. I see that's fair. That that becomes fair.
And see, my concern is that if we lower them more than they should have been lowered, that's what I worry about. I can I can understand lowering, but sometimes, and it's happened in the past, where they take 100,000 off of one when it shouldn't have been, it should have been more like maybe 50,000? That's what I worry about. Okay? Because I want to be fair. Just because someone says, you know, you're a $100,000 over on what it should be, doesn't necessarily mean it's exact.
I know, but It's very Again, I think none of us are qualified to review a certified appraiser. And in fact, attorney O'Brien said, normally what happens at court traditionally, the town hires another appraiser because the assessor's report won't stand in court. It's it's not the same standard they're looking for. Right. So the town hires mister Buckley, Chris Buckley. Right. And they pay him. This is my understanding. Dollars 3,000 for his appraisal. Now my appraisal was 400. So I just can't figure out why that number is so big. But whatever it is, every time we send someone to court, the town is paying just for the appraisal $3,000
Except in most cases, the town does not hire an appraiser.
According So. To Mr. Buckley, he said when it goes to trial, that's what happens.
Yeah. Well, I was told by Dennis that, very rarely do we hire an appraiser to go to court, but in this case they did, and it was Mr. Buck's. By order of the judge. Okay. So often we don't do that. We rely on the assessor's attorney to go in and
review the case or whatever. Well, they try to negotiate it without going to trial. If it goes to trial, that's when they always starts. Yeah, I know.
Okay. So if, did you hear back from Mr. Hamburger yet? No.
What we'll do, Georgia, we can call the meeting and then one of us, Linda, can text you if she gets an answer and let you know. Then, you can send an email out and say Thursday is Thursday or it's Saturday.
Okay. Right? Send me an email though because I have a flip phone. Okay. Okay. I mean, can get the text, but it's very hard to send one back. That's fine. That's fine. So send me an email.
All right, is there any other, anything else you want to go over?
I don't think so. So I'm going to schedule those three for March 15. Yeah. Unless I hear from them saying they can't do it.
And you're going to name them in the agenda, right? You're going to have?
I will. Okay. Yes, I will. And then the other three will be on the fifteenth nineteenth. Okay? Very good. Yep. Alright. I'll do that.
Alright. I I make a motion that we adjourn our meeting for today. Second.
All in favor, say aye. Aye. We adjourn at 10:47. Excellent.
Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Thank you, Amanda.