Meeting transcript
Inland Wetlands and Watercourses Commission - Public Hearing & Regular Meeting Zoom
June 6, 2022 · Watch on YouTube · All meetings
The subject of this hearing is a permit application number 2202, from the town of Andover for drainage improvements and related work on Shawty Mill Road and Birch Drive. The hearing is called because it was determined that this activity would have a significant impact on regulated wetlands and watercourse, and therefore under regulations a hearing is required. To get quickly to the point, however, I'd like to see if any members of the public are interested in making comments or raising inquiries about this application. Yes. Somebody is interested to give you some suggestions.
This is this is agent Wagner here. I have a member of the public that came in for the meeting,
so he's sharing computer with me. Okay. Thank you. Could you identify yourself for the record, please?
My name is Angelo Tamaro, t a M M A R O and I own a Building Lot Number 15 And Shorty Mill Road where the water is actually going. I own the lot. I own the building lot. Okay.
And I saw the prints that you're trying to put new catch basic in there, but all the water that's being collected is going to be dumped in right inside my lot and it's going to make it wet. It's going to make it unbuildable. So we're going to have to do something. My suggestion is to extend pipe at least 100 feet, because the last slopes downward in down below the wetlands down there. It would be as long as you deviated long enough to give me a buildable lot. I will go for that. But you're gonna have to enclose it in piping.
Can can I ask a question here at this point? Yes.
So, sir, you're Number 15, Shoddy Mill. Yes. Are you on the other side of the rail trail?
The Route 6 side of the rail trail? No. You're you're wait. What is this one? Oh. You're West of 43 Shawty Mill.
So he's a pretty much across from Birch Drive. I'm right across the road from from the road coming down the hill there. Directly across the road. Okay. So you said lot It's Lot 15. Oh, Lot 15. Yes.
Okay. So we're not we're not increasing any water flow to that property.
Well, if you're gonna tie these catch basins together and dump them on a dumping them right in my lot, it's going to make my lot real wet.
So the are you talking about the basins that we just put in?
Well, I think you're going to be putting inside you're going to be doing some more basing, I think. I think you got some something some work lined up to be done here.
In in future? Yeah. Birch Road. So cur currently, the three basins the three basins that we put in have not changed the water flow as it exists right now, and it goes it goes behind 43. The water the water course goes goes approaches right into the edge of your between your lot and house number 43 and goes behind 43. Is that part behind 43? Is that the rear your prior more your property?
Well, I own like a whole acre there and it floats downhill now. I haven't been there lately, so I don't know if the water is going either way where it's going. But I It's
not going into your lot. It's it's the water is still going to flow in the in the water course that's existing. We're not changing that that water course as it goes. The water course, there's a swale, a natural swale between your lot and Lot 4 in House Number 43,
which is your neighbor. Correct? Yeah. But that's been creating by the water running down the hill that they they created this that indentation. Yes. Then it's going down and eventually it's going to end up in down on my lap regardless at the end of my lap because the way the land slopes is just a direct gradual decline to the end of the line. So everything is gonna end up there.
It's gonna end up in my lot eventually. So even it does it does it does that now through the natural lay of the land. That's the that's where the water course has been forever. Yes?
As long as I own the yes. I'm not gonna deny that. But if I mean, but if there is something that we can do so it makes it I mean, if we can pipe at a certain amount of length, do so it looks decent instead of doing it the way it is. So when I do build my home, which I already have plans to build on it. I had plans already drawn up. It it would just it won't look like a river when it rains. That's what I'm saying. Okay,
I would love. I would love to see it extended into a pipe a certain amount or whatever you you think is is suitable for you people and me so I can make my lab actually look presentable.
Okay. So I think we're getting beyond the scope of the hearing in terms of its the direct impact of the proposed work. In other words, we hear a concern that the work may have a further impact on an adjoining property, and an assertion by Mr. Tuttle that, in fact, that this work will have no impact on the present flow and will not increase present flow. So, we're really talking about existing conditions that aren't going to be altered by the proposed work. So, I appreciate that comment, and we can certainly take that into account when we look at the permit application in our subsequent meeting. So, we'll take note of that, and I would like to then ask that we continue on and see if anyone else might have, again, concerns or questions about the proposed project.
Do. I'm not sure how this works. I'm just coming into the meeting, but I would like public comment also when available.
Okay. Is this for the public hearing on the work on Shawty Mill? Yes, it is, sir. Okay. Then will you please identify yourself for the record so that we can and I take it that you are calling in by phone?
Yes, I am. I'm sorry. I am out this evening, and I just wanted to get in. I just wanna know what you're do. Somebody else ahead of me?
No. You'll be up next, because I say you need to identify yourself for the record. Okay.
My name is Debbie Scanlon. I live at 23 Shottie Mill Road, and the project will will be happening right on the side of my property. We have lived there for thirty seven years, and the road runoff does come onto the side of the property and goes off in the back. And so whatever improvements you can make to that situation would be greatly appreciated by this homeowner because over the course of time, our side yard has gotten increasingly wetter and wetter. And I think that it might have be because of the road runoff and over the years, just the diversion, you know, along the way of that road runoff. Like I said, over the years, it's just been getting wetting wetter and wetter on our property. And I did have a chance to speak with mister Tuttle a couple months ago, and I am very happy that something is being done to address this problem and to divert the water back off up to the left a little bit. I think that will definitely help us. I had been contemplating even coming to the town to discuss the issue because it it just has just gotten wetter over the years. And our well is in our front yard also more to the if you're facing the project, our well is more to the right of it, but it still is in our front yard. So this is a concern for us. But again,
my point of taking the time for public speak is to definitely speak in favor of anything that would divert the water away from our property.
And Mr. Tuttle, I believe based on my recollection of the project description in our sidewalk, you could address what Ms. Ganlin has brought up. Yeah,
just goes to a point with the next section down that the improvements that you know we have proposed to try to improve the drainage in that area between 23 and Number 34. You know the collection, the collection area at Number 34 just above and then the discharge area at Number 23 which she just spoke about.
It was explained to me that over the years that the tree roots sometimes can cause you know, the the path to go a different way too and to divert into a different, you know, way. And so I don't know if over the years, it has caused it to come closer, you know, to our property. I know many, many years ago, someone was allowed to dump. I I don't even it was trees trees, stumps, and and sand. And I don't know what else was in this mix, but some that was dumped right at the beginning of that property. And, again, that might be an issue why we're seeing more, you know, come onto our more water come onto our property. But the the people that were there, there was two road crew people the first time I spoke with someone about it and then mister Tuttle and and very informative and explained to me, you know, the that what's happening because over time, just naturally what happens. Okay. Well, thank you for that input.
Thank you. I do have to leave right away from the meeting because I am out right now, but I'm glad I got the opportunity. Thank you. I'm glad I got the opportunity to get in on a public comment on that, and good luck with the project. Thank you.
Okay, so any other public comments or questions, further questions?
George, if I may, real quick. I forgot to identify myself later, earlier. Jay Tuttle, Donovan Dover, Public Works Department Director. Just if I may back up just real quick, Joe, if you're still on, would you please get the gentleman's information, phone number, you know, and whatnot, how best way to get ahold of him. I would like to speak to him. As of right now, we're not increasing or changing any water flow between his property and Number 43. But there is potential for future hookup to Birch Road. That's another issue for another time. Right now we're just trying to prove on shotty.
Okay, well for now, you're doing, you're not increasing anything. You go ahead and do what you have to do. I'm not trying to stop you from doing your job, but like I said before, I would love to see some enclosure somehow, a certain amount of footage, that would justify all the means of a water runoff and and all the rest of the inconvenience for everybody.
Yep, that can that can be certainly be looked at.
They would they would they would be appreciated. I will give you my information, and you can call me anytime. Okay.
Yeah. I just got to get through Shadi right now. Thank
you. One thing to do. Yeah. Good. So, once again, any other? I don't see any other members of the public on the call, so I will take it that there are no further comments or discussion on the matter. Oh, I did forget to note at the beginning that we have Commissioners Larson and Monroe present for the meeting, as well as myself, Chairman Elliott. Having done that, I think we can now I'll move to adjourn the hearing.
George? Before we do that, George? Sure, Jed. Got that lower section. We got that lower section we need to discuss.
Well, Okay. Commissioner Larson, did you have a comment for the hearing, or is this for the deliberation for the actual discussion of approval.
I just want to make sure that I'm clear on our rules tonight. At a recent public hearing, I got surprised when we closed the public hearing and then we couldn't have any discussion on the thing after that. And I do have several questions you know, about the application, and so I wanted to make sure that if we close the public hearing after getting input from the public, we could still discuss it in our regular meeting, and that would be okay.
No, we have the agenda for the regular meeting. The first item under old business is the permit application, and old business is for discussion and potential action. So if your questions and queries have to do with the application, I would suggest that they could be incorporated in our discussion of the permit application directly. Sounds good. Okay,
so then once again I'll move to adjourn the hearing. I'll need a second and a vote. I'll second.
Okay, then I guess by roll call, Commissioner Larson? Aye. Commissioner Munro? Aye. And I, Chairman Elliott, also vote aye. So the hearing is now adjourned at 07:18PM. I will now call to order at 07:18PM the regular meeting of the Inland, Wetland, and Water Courses Commission with the same cast of characters present. The item on the agenda following roll call is changes in order to the agenda. Do we have any suggested alterations, additions, or rearrangements of the agenda for tonight's meeting?
I noticed the agenda did not include approval of the minutes from the sidewalk on May 5. I just wanted to make sure that was intentional.
Probably not, but we can certainly defer. It may have been my overlook because I was asked to look at the draft agenda before it was sent out. We could include that in our next meeting. Was there a quorum for that meeting?
There was not a quorum. You're right. There was only questions. That's why. That's why I didn't inform it. No quorum, no meeting.
Right, got it. Okay. So, then the next thing on the agenda is approval of the minutes of 04/04/2022. That was the public hearing regarding regulations and the subsequent meeting at which they were approved. We didn't look at those minutes at our last meeting because Commissioner Monroe was not present, and so we only had two members that were present at the meeting that were actually at the hearing and the March meeting or April meeting. So, I'll move to approve the minutes of the public hearing and regular meeting on Monday, 04/04/2022. I'll second it. Okay, now any discussion, corrections, omissions, alterations? I've got no comments. Okay,
seeing no comments, then I'll ask for a vote again by roll call by Commissioner Larson. Aye. Commissioner Monroe. Aye.
And I also vote aye, so the motion carries unanimously. Next is the approval of the minutes for the 05/02/2022 regular meeting. And again, I will move to approve those. I'll second. Okay. Commissioner Monroe seconds. Any discussion? Any changes, corrections?
The only comment I had is we had Ed Smith was at that meeting and we have him listed as an alternate under the members. Then he's also listed down below is under the others present in my recommendation would be to cross him out from the others present.
Point well taken. Okay, with that correction, I'll ask again for a vote by roll call. Commissioner Larson. Aye. Commissioner Monroe. I think I have to abstain. I wasn't there.
Point well taken. Let's see. I will vote aye. That gives a two-zero vote, and we have a quorum of three, so I think we're okay for approval.
Is that correct, Eric? Do we need three to be the majority of the board for approval? It's not on or
he's muted. Sorry. It took me a sec to get there. It's if you have three present and two are in favor, then it's approved. So it's not a quorum of the members, it's the quorum of a members present.
Okay, majority of the members present. So we have approval of the minutes, and we can move on to our next item on the agenda, which would be public comment. I believe we've already received public comment under the hearing, so seeing no further hands, I will move on to item number 10, old business. And the first item there is the application IWWC 2202 for the town of Andover, which was the subject of the hearing. So now is the time for the questions and discussions of the permit application, and knowing that Commissioner Larson already has stated that he has questions and comments, I'll call on him to address them.
I guess my first question is I was surprised that Jay said we weren't working on the Birch Drive thing, which was the concern about the water going, into the fellow across the street's property. And so that's the Birch Drive is part of the application tonight still, isn't it?
What at the moment, the Birch Drive is the basin right at the corner and Shotty Mill, which that is that has been a collection point right along. And that all flows downhill to the original basin, which was a stone basin with no sump, just across culvert in front of 40 six. So those those three basins that we we just put in are now collecting any debris in those sumps. Hooking up to Birch Road is a future discussion, but we're not ready to do that yet. Okay, so that's not part of the application tonight?
No, right now it's just that upper part of Birch Road, which was part of the original discussion, but the permit application where we're actually working in wetlands is down in front of. Got too many numbers here. 34 House Number 34 just before the, you know, down there midway before the rail trail, where the water comes out into the road. That's where we're, we're right on the line within our right away and just touching people's properties.
Okay, so could you possibly call up, you know, photo or drawing that showed that catch basin by what I think is 46? And I wasn't sure how all that tied into down the road when we were talking about the water going through the backyard of Number 46.
Correct, so that water currently is still going to be going there because we're not ready to hook up Birch Road to Shawty Mill, but the water boy Hang on a second. It's going to take me a bit to find where that pictures are. Hang on. Need to go back to my email share.
I put a link to the website in the chat if that's where you're looking for so you can look at the materials for the application. What's, say that again? Not sure if you're looking for the page with the application materials, but I just sent the link to it in the chat, if that's helpful for you. Oh, okay. Hang on. Go back here.
I'm seeing the Andover, Connecticut, 1848. Where do they go back?
If it helps, I can share my screen with the aerial with the crog tax parcel viewer, which shows where all the property lines are. It doesn't show exactly what Jay's doing, but I'm sure he can describe it. I know the thing that confused me was I was trying to figure out how the water from that catch basin by Property 46, I thought we were talking about it was going to run under the road and connect a pipe down to Shawty Mill there. And I didn't understand how it was going through the backyard of 46 still. And that may be because I was confused. I thought we were discussing work being done on Birch Drive with this application, and that might not be true.
Right now we're only working on Shotty Mill. And the three basins. Geez, I gotta find this picture here. Is this the stuff I sent you, Joe?
That's good picture from what would answer my question. That's the one I got stuck on, or one of them I got stuck on.
Yeah. Yeah. It's the one that we were working on that. I think what you are talking about the confusion here is that Add curbing in this area to direct road run off the storm drains. Car Hopper Drive. That is in the lower left hand corner of that picture that goes behind Shotty 46
Shotty Mill Road. Yeah, that's we're not we're not ready to tie that in yet. That's gentle.
We're only right now. We're only working on Shotty Mill. So, a lot of this stuff is is discussions. We had some for future discussions and yes we would like to take care of this water that's going behind Number 46 and eventually eliminate that. Am I is my cursor on this right now or no? I tried giving you remote access so try giving it a shot. Where how I'm sorry I'm.
I can do it if you want. It's just I it's okay so move your cursor down to where it says Birch Drive. Okay.
Nope, right where it says Birch Drive. Keep going back right in there. So that area with the waters in Blue crossing behind Number 46, we're not ready to do that yet. So we are connecting the two basins at the end of Birch Drive, which we've they are in place and we're connecting to the basin that's directly in front of Number 46. Move down to the right there. That's the original sump. That's an open was an open pit sump that collects all the water from part of Birch Drive. The stuff that goes past the basin that's on Birch Drive existing now, goes down Birch Road because it's downhill, rounds the corner, and goes into that basin, plus the water above that comes down above Birch Road in that lane. It all collects to this. So those three now that we have three basins there, not only do they collect the water and they pipe to across the street to 43 And 46. All that flow has not changed. We've improved by putting in three basins,
which now each basin has a sump, so it collects debris, sedimentation, so we're preventing, as long as maintenance keeps up, additional sedimentation and debris to go, you know, from road debris, road leafy material organics, whatever, to go and discharge onto those properties across the street from 46. So we can clean those sumps out and maintain. So we haven't changed any water flow to that property yet. That's another discussion. Right now we're working on Shotty Mill. So And then we got to do the section down below.
Okay, would it make sense when you're the fellow that was talking before about the increased flow, if that is a plan going forward, should we be making the plan, you know, begin with the end in mind so that when we're doing this for the next phase, it all makes sense and we don't have to redo something?
Yes, it could. We could do that. I mean, as far as the increased flow, it's you know right now everything's dry up above it's it's seasonal it's storm and it's not a it's not a continual steady flow all the time The right size pipes are in. It'll take what it needs to do. Up there at the beginning of Birch Drive or you know in the middle where we started there behind Number 46, we would be putting an additional base in there and piping it so it goes down to the corner of Birch And Shawty. Wish I could bring up my original paper here.
Okay, so I understand then the only thing we're doing on Birch Drive right now is the one catch basin next to 46.
There's the original basin in front of Kurt 46 that was a stone open pit. We made a basin. And then there's two basins uphill from there that are at the end of Birch on either side of the intercept, you know, the corner.
Okay, so now that I might be get Am missing something? I'm just trying to wrap my arms around what is it that the Commission should be acting on tonight? And I'll go back, you know, when I don't see any wetlands on any of the drawings. And I know we've got a diversion ditch going through a wetland area. There's, yeah, but there's if Maybe no shouldn't even be talking about this catch screen up on 46 if we're not talking about tying it into the rest of the pipe and how it's all gonna flow down to the wetlands there. Don't know. No. I spent a lot of time trying to sort this out before coming to the meeting tonight and once again failed miserably. Didn't get there. And so now I'm trying to wrap my arms around what is it that you're asking the Commission for with respect to this particular
There's no wetlands up here that really I'm dealing with other than it's waterways, water courses that have been designed through the natural course lay of land and development of these properties that we're improving on.
Can I add something to just that? Over on 43 shotty mill drains into a intermittent water course. It has like a defined stream channel holds water, not all the time, but sometimes that's regulated under the wetlands commission's regulation. So that's why this is part of the application. Why if we're not changing anything there?
Well, you're altering the input to it with the storm drains above it. It may be a minor change, that's up for you to decide. But the collection points and the water that's going in there has been altered a bit, and the catch basin is a different design, so it is a minor change, but it is work within an intermittent water course, so.
In any event, if may interject here, we have an exact description of the project in the document that's attached. It's called the Application Shawty Mill Road, TOA, Project Description Site Plans4.25. Two 022. It's one of the attachments, and it describes exactly the three convoys. Now, I'm afraid that things got confused when Mr. Camaro and really Ms. Scanlon brought up matters that are really not germane to the application, at least not as it has been presented. Mr. Tuttle, when we went on our sidewalk in our previous discussion, did try to acquaint us with the future direction of this project, so that we could see the direction it was going and realize that they're not overlooking factors that will have an impact on what they're doing now, but they are not part of the application. The application is specifically for the work on the drains at the intersection of Birch Lane and Shawnee Mill Road, and most importantly, when we look down at the next map, where we have direct wetland impact with diversion of flow and with the reworking an intermittent water course that feeds into wetlands on the downslope, which would, I guess, be the west side or theI don't know, my compass direction is therebut anyhow, on the other side, on the odd numbered side of Shawty Mill Road, okay? So, for example, again, Ms. Scanlon's comments were directed towards future potential work that's not the subject of this permit application. And likewise, I believe Mr. Kamaro was addressing potential impacts of future work that's not the subject of this application.
Okay. I think Ms. Galen was talking about the the, the work that was proposed under this application, which would redirect the, that section where it says channel splits and stream flows onto the lawn during high flows. That that is proposed as part of this project too. Isn't that correct, Jay? Yes.
Yep. Yeah. That little that little blue section that starts to run towards Number 23, we want to eliminate the water going that way and keep it going to the left. So we want to as the pipe as the water discharges from the cross culvert existing cross culvert in the road, it now is directed more towards 23. We just want to put a bend in that discharge to direct it. We want to take out a couple of trees, remove some roots and make it and direct the water more toward the wetland area. So that's where the water goes now. It just kind of flows. It splits between the two properties. So before it gets into the wetland, that's where we want to direct the water to. And so is Which we did discuss in the sidewalk.
Right. Right. So now is that parcel that's identified as Number 29 Shawty Mill Road that contains the wetland where the water is going and where the additional water will be directed, is that the Lot Number 15? No. No. Okay, what? Which is Lot 15? Lot 15 was directly across from Birch Road.
Okay, the boundaries are a little clear, is the property uphill from Number 43? Correct. Okay, the property line is pretty much right at that
crossroad. Right on that watercourse or right on that drain? Yeah, it splits between the two properties.
Okay. Okay, so I thought when we were well, so are there any wetlands on the property that's 28 Shawty Mill Road?
Yes. Nothing but nothing but we're not affecting anything on 28.
Okay, I think we're rediverting some of the water course that came down from that 46, you know, the backyard of 46 Shawnee Mill we're working out and we were going to redivert that or something. We're read,
you gotta go, you see where 40 Shawty Mill and 35 Birch Drive and 34 Shawty Mill? Yep. Those two water courses. So the first water course coming off of 40 Shotty Mill. And comes on to 35 Birch Drive, and then it runs right along the edge there and then it discharges into the roadway. Right where she's pointing right now. Yep. And then it flows down Shotty Mill to that basin. Right there. So that's the that's the water flow. That's the area that we're working right on the edge in the shoulder of the road. Right on the property lines between our right away and the property lines of 35 Birch Drive and 34 Schrodinger. That's where I get to make the improvement to move that water course. So it does not discharge into the roadway. It stays within our right away and will flow into the back of that basin. Because we're going to create a plunge pool behind the basin for the water to collect
into the plunge pool, and then go into the basin through a pipe, and then through the cross culvert to the existing drainage onto the through the, you know, onto that property, which it's been, that's not again, nothing is changing there. It's always gone there. What we're trying to do is eliminate the water flow, direct water flow onto the roadway.
Oh, I understand that. And I just, you know, there's a lot lot of stuff on these and
that that's part that's part one of this area. Now past the basin or right behind the basin you have the the next water course of 35 coming off 35 Birch Drive.
It comes down to ports that comes from behind 46?
It comes from behind 34 Shotty Mill. 46 Shotty Mill crosses 40 Shotty Mill.
Yep, and where's that water go? I thought that was going to the storm drain at Property 28. No.
So 46 Shotty Mill goes behind 46 coming from Birch Drive from the Upper Hill. It flows across 40 Shotty Mill. And that flows directly onto the roadway. The lay of the land between thirty. There's multiple lays areas. They all kind of hit this area right at thirty four shotty mill where that basin is. So 35 Birch Drive. And 34 Shotty Mill. There's another natural swale, just lay of the land the valley it collects and it goes underneath the driveway of 34 Shotty Mill continuing down to where it goes across 28 goes across the Cross Culvert at 28 Shotty Mill to 20 9 Shotty Mill.
Okay, and then there's no wetlands issue with the 28 Shotty Mill.
No, the only thing we're going to do there is if we have time is we're going to put a base in there instead of just an open pit because there's a headwall with an open pipe that just water flows into the pipe. We'd like to make something that we can maintain and put a catch basin. It can be done now or it can be done some other day. But that there is no wetlands impact there. It's just that there's a ditch, a stone pit behind the headwall, just a lot of stone rock.
Oh, I remember I just thought the discussion included we were re diverting an intermittent water course through a wetland on that side of Shawnee Mill and I guess am not confused The with diversion is on, is across the street at between 20 I 20 got and 20 it. Yeah. Yeah, I thought There is
water that comes down from 28 into that. They have water in their land too that comes down. There's like a paddock or something behind their property where water comes down through, but we're not affecting that at all. We're not doing anything with that. It's just trying to collect the water at 34 and 35 creating the swale along the town right away along the edge of the road to eliminate the water direct discharge onto the roadway. We want to keep it in a swale just off the road and collect it behind the basin at 34 in a plunge pool, a little pit area, something that we can maintain. Okay, I got it.
I guess Jed, there was one other thing, if you remember, at 34 Schottie Mill, we want to clean the discharge of the pipe going underneath the driveway. The sediment is built up that's only like half a pipe showing or less.
Nope, I understand when I looked at the. Arc GIS map for wetlands, it showed the wetlands area coming across the road, across Shawty Mill Road from 23 to 28. And I was just, I must have just got confused from the sidewalk.
I thought there were wetlands over on 28 Shawty Mill. Well, there is wetlands there, but we're not doing anything with it. Okay. Yeah, we're not. I got you. Okay. Yeah.
Okay. So, I hope we're all clear on that. Were there further questions about the scope of the project and exactly what's going on here?
I guess I would ask why we didn't have the town engineer review the project.
For one, we don't have a town engineer available right now and didn't think that was something that we really needed to have engineering oversight on only because it's we're other than the little bit of impact on the edge of the road. We're just putting in drainage some basins along the way collecting this the water that's always been there. Just in a manner that it's makes a little more sense and not not having water discharged directly onto our road. Abby, could you scroll down some more on this? Just keep scrolling. Is there? Okay, that's as far as it goes. All right. Yeah. I thought I had some
your drawings are on the website too. They should be posted on there. If you went back to the to the list of them.
I apologize. I'm a little not in tune with this clicking and back and forth and trying to find. Unless I'm dealing with some well issues at my house, so I'm not totally prepared. Yeah, that
the one there, project description and site plan April 20. Yeah, that's the one that you're probably looking for. There we go.
Okay, that's what I was looking for. Thank you, Abby. Yeah, so Jed, just just brief quick, the three basins, the three squares on Shotty Mill right here at Birch Road in the front. So those are the three basins that we just put in. The stuff the hookup to Birch Road is future hookup. Yes, we did discuss it. You know, right now that's not quite part of the plan yet to get that done, so we got some more work to do ahead of us. We are going to clean up this discharge area right at Number 43, so we don't have erosion there. We want a collection area again, so we're going to immediately approve upon that. That'll be done. But talking with the gentleman with at Lot 14, that'll be that'll be another time. So then further down the road, if you can scan down or scroll down some more, please. Okay, so here we're at 46. You can see where the water course goes behind 46 through Lot Number 40. Keep going scroll down some more. And that's the area where we got the major work. Where we need to get that water from
or stop the water from going on to the roadway. And then the next page down, that's where we're diverting the water. At Number 23, instead of it going to the right, we just want to bend it to the left a little. Not much impact there. The bulk of the work is being done right there at Number 34 in front of House Number 34. Okay, that was all my questions. Thank you, Abby.
Commissioner Monroe, do you have any questions regarding the application and comments regarding the application? I realize you weren't able to make it to the sidewalk.
The only thing I would unclear of is where all this water is gonna ultimately end up. Is there anything that that needs to be done there?
It's going to where it's always gone to. Again, we're not changing anything. Number 29, their driveway, you can kind of see it in the picture. If you look at 34, Number 29 their driveways across the street from the basin you can Abby if you yep that's Number 29 Driveway and their house as you go down is actually behind Property 37. All the property to the right in that area is all wetland. It's all been it's just it's always been there. That's that whole area collects this water always has. Okay, thank you. That's what I wanted. Know.
Okay. Do we have any further questions or comments from the commissioners? I think we can
I'd like to take I'm sorry, George. I got just one more question. Sure. And that, I guess, is for Joe. Is the best engineering practice to focus all the stormwater runoff into a wetland? Or would it be better to do something other than that?
What do you mean? What do you, I'm not really sure what you're
Well, when I, so when I've gone back and looked at, you know, stormwater management plans and that, they discourage running stormwater into a wetland because the soil won't absorb the water into the ground. And they have a bunch of other things that you can do. I'm not sure if they're practical here, but I'm just trying to make That's kind of more of an issue, like, if you're creating,
like, so let's say if you're building a big parking lot or clear cutting, and you have a lot more sheet flow, they have to collect. It wouldn't be a good idea to pipe it into a wetland because you could overwhelm it, but this one, this this is a little bit different, because these are existing flows that have been here before, the roads been here before everything, it's just a natural drainage that ends up in this wetland here, it would be it would probably be there in some in some way, whether or not this road or all these houses were here. So, I mean, yeah, I look at this plan and all of the, know, you're basically moving the water course off the road, but the outlet and the volume is going to stay the same. So, to me, that's, that's just seems like a suitable plan. Okay, thanks.
Okay, so then if we've got all of our questions answered, once again, you can take action on this application tonight. And so I would move that we approve application number 2202. I need a second, of course. I'll second. Thank you. So, moved and seconded to approve. Any further discussion? If not, I'll call for a vote. By roll call, So, Commissioner
should there be any any other conditions of approval other than the standard conditions that we normally put in?
I can't see any. You know, the project is what it is.
Okay, I couldn't see any either. That's why I was asking.
Okay, so once again, by roll call, Commissioner Larson. Aye. Commissioner Monroe. Aye. And I, Chairman Elliot, also vote aye. So the motion carries three-zero-zero, and that permit will be issued. Thank you. So, along with that project, and then up to the next. There's a lot of balls in the air these days. Okay, well, let me close a couple of windows here so that I can get on back to the agenda and back to our old business. Right, the next, is permanent application IWWC2203 for culvert replacement on a driveway crossing at 880 And 874 E Street. Hold on a second here. So, any questions or comments from the commissioners regarding the application? I see that the applicant is on the call. And so this would be the time to bring up any questions that remain about that application.
Okay, seems pretty I guess I'll ask the question. It's been really dry. How soon are you ready to start?
I have questions. I did read, I saw the maps and it seems like a pretty straightforward replacement, because that's what I saw.
That's right. Okay. Somebody must be muted here. Hold on a second. I got a Charlie horse that I got to deal with, so I'm going to stop my video for a moment. Hard to sit for any length of time here. Okay. So, I guess our applicant isn't really on the call because just the icon. We need to do more with this metaverse thing. So, if there's no further questions or comments from the Commission, I will move to approve application number 2203 with standard conditions, and as the I believe the permit application did cover all the usual erosion, sedimentation controls, and engineering concerns. So again, the motion to approve with standard conditions, and I'll need a second. I'll second that. Okay, so I'll second by Commissioner Monroe. Any further discussion on the motion? Okay, seeing none, I'll ask for a vote. Commissioner Larson? Aye. Commissioner Monroe? Aye. And I also vote aye, so the motion carries three-zero-zero. And then again, I'll ask Agent Wagner to contact the applicant acquaint him with the terms and make sure that appropriate follow-up. Okay. Returning to the agenda. That takes care of our old business. New business, we have a jurisdictional ruling review regarding proposed timber harvest activities at 43 Juravadi Road that involve placement of two temporary bridges across a seasonal water course. The issue here is not the activity per se, but once again whether the Commission wants to exercise the purview of requiring an application
for this activity. I'll ask for comments from any members of the Commission first. We already have the application, but as I say, that's not strictly germane. What's germane is whether we need an application.
I was not able to tell from the materials on the website whether or not the bridge was long enough to completely, you know, didn't go down the banks at all to disturb any wetlands or rather the watercourse was even in a wetland area. So, I thought that would be germane to us making a decision. Okay.
Well, our applicant is on the call. Mr. DuBois, could you address that question since you're familiar with it?
Can you hear me? Can everybody hear me? Yeah. Okay good evening I'm Don Dubois owner of Dubois forestry and land management professionals from Brooklyn Connecticut and I'm here on behalf of Evan McGuire this evening representing his application on 43 Jurybody Road. My client is a recipient of a grant from the NRCS USDA to help him take better care of his wooded land. The purpose of this operation is to remove dead and dying ash trees that have resulted from the emerald ash borer and dead and dying oak trees that resulted from recent gypsy moth, defoliations and we are asking for this is a small silvicultural thinning. I think it requires a simple jurisdictional ruling from the inland wetlands commission tonight. There are two temporary stream crossings. Staddle Brook runs along the property's extreme Southeast corner.
There's no harvesting taking place anywhere near this brook. So there's a 100 foot buffer strip along that brook. There's an intermittent brook that flows through the property it from it flows from north to south and it's the defining feature in Stand two if you look at the application and the topographical map I've indicated where two temporary stream crossings need to be placed in order to allow for woodland machinery to access the remote corners of the property for forest management purposes. I've also sent along to Joe a picture of a standard portable bridge and what it looks like installed. Portable bridges come in different dimensions. Typically a typical length might be 12 feet depending on the width of the drainage that you're trying to traverse. They come as long as 24 feet. So the portable bridge will be designed and installed to accommodate the crossing. Where we've located the proposed crossing is the narrowest point of the drainage. And, we're trying to create a situation where machinery can approach the stream and get back out of the stream on the other side without disturbing
any wetlands whatsoever, and without causing any impact to the, the riparian zone. So our goal is just to minimize movement of sediment and soil anywhere near the intermittent stream crossing. This is a small operation. It's typically referred to as a salvage regeneration thinning. It's 17,000 board feet and 82 cords of firewoods. It's a very, very small operation. The hardwood tops are gonna be removed as part of the initial operation. So when the operator's in there, he'll be one operation, one piece of equipment and when he's done, it'll be completed. The log loading area is located off of the existing driveway at 43 Juravarty Road just before you cross the Algonquin gas line. There's a two acre patch cut that's taking place if you look at the topographical map and I think it's outlined in fuchsia this is an area where it's mostly ash and it's all dead.
Don or George, could we get one of you to maybe bring up the drawing that he's looking at? Because when I looked online, I was having a hard time getting that. And Don is describing it very well. And if we had the picture to look good when he goes through, that would be great.
Don, you were referring to the topo maps, right? Overlay on the topos. Yeah, we should. That's the document labeled IWWC2204JR application, and it ends with Timber harvest plan. Okay, so Abby, maybe you could bring that up for us.
I was also having trouble finding it. Is that not within the submitted and archived applications?
Yes, it is. It's part of the archived application, the hard copy that I submitted.
Okay. Yeah, I downloaded it from the web. Let me check on that. Abby, it's posted under
jurisdictional ruling. It's below, like if you're on that page and you go down applications, submitted applications, archive, it's below that.
That makes more sense. Okay. Hold on. Okay. So you're looking for the aerial photos or is there let me see.
Amy, I would think it would be the subdivision plan with wetland is where I was Oh, that's a one. That was the one I provided. It was an old map.
It's Timber harvest of timber harvest. It should be in there, I think.
No. No. No. It's one it's one labeled timber harvest plan. K. There we go. That's
it. Voila. Voila. Great, very good. So everybody can see this map now? Yep.
Wonderful. Alright. Okay. Where I left off, I believe, was talking about the proposed log loading area. If you look closely at this map, you can see the Algonquin gas line which bisects the property running from west to east. There you go. Very good. That little tail that comes out to Juravati Road is his 50 foot driveway. And when it comes in, it makes a hard bend to the back to the west right there is the proposed log loading or what I call the landing area. It's a good stable well drained location and then the blue X is a matted crossing that was required by Algonquin
for us to bring equipment over the gas line. So we've gone through the permitting process with them and that'll be matted. Once we get to the north of the gas line you see the skid trails in green, they fork one goes to the left and toward higher elevation and one goes down to stand two where it crosses the drainage. That little red thing. I know I know of no other feature to use for us to do it's gonna canoe. So we're not using a canoe. However, We're using mats. And in this case, we've I think it doesn't show very well on the map, but we have picked what is the narrowest location. It's a steep in, out. So the the proposed crossing will use timber bridges or mats that will completely traverse the drainage with no risk of impacts. In other words, water can run freely under the bridges. The bridges will completely cover the crossing. And of course, when they're done, the bridges will be removed.
So everything's being done to NRCS specifications. The other crossing is if you proceed east along the gas line. My original application called for a stream crossing in Stand 2 again, just below the corner of the property. Subsequent to our inspection with Algonquin, we found that they had they had put in a culvert there. The gas company actually has a culvert on their gas line to allow for the stream to pass under. So we do not need to put in another stream crossing there. However, their culvert is pretty near the surface of the ground. So we're going to map that culvert just for safety, just we're to map that so there's no impact on the existing pipes. So we're not going to be crossing the stream channel. We're going to be crossing where the existing culvert is. So that eliminates the need for that crossing. However, again, it'll be matted. And then the green areas are those areas that are proposed skid trails. These trails will be at the completion of the operation will be seeded with a shade tolerant conservation grass seed mix and then hand raked to ensure germination. And that's just to prevent any subsequent runoff.
And the last thing is those areas in fuchsia, the kind of pink color. These are two areas of very heavy mortality. These areas are heavy to ash and oak and the emerald ash borer and the gypsy moth, now called the spongy moth. Very good. Yeah, see that? Up to speed. Very good. I'm an old school. We can always just call it lymantria discba. Maybe we should do that. Then the people are gonna say, well, what's that? Anyway, these patch cuts are gonna be patch cuts by virtue of the fact that all the trees in this area are dead. So we're gonna be opening these areas up. And the purpose of that is we're gonna be creating some badly needed early successional habitat on the property. And so that's it's pretty straightforward there's an existing driveway it's a very small operation if there's no interruption due to weather or you know unforeseen circumstances This should take about ninety days to complete if that yeah, that's about it. So I'm looking this evening for a jurisdictional ruling so that we can get this approved as a permitted use as of right silvicultural operation thank you very much okay questions from commissioners Commissioner Monroe.
I was I'm looking at the the fuchsia boundary there. It seems to go all the way down to Staddle Brook. Are you gonna go all the way in there or am I misreading this? Oh, no, no. The red is the property perimeter.
The fuchsia is kind of pink, they're circular. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. Believe it or not The color isn't really startlingly
different on this Yeah, put a lot of Put a lot of noise. Fault. Okay. Good question. Yep.
Okay. Commissioner Larson, did you have any questions regarding the proposed No, I'll say.
Okay. So again, the action that we need to consider is essentially that we would rule that this activity is permitted as of right and does not then require an application for permit from this commission. I will make the motion to that effect that we consider this a permitted activity as of right for jurisdictional ruling number 2200And4. I'll second that. Okay.
Second from Commissioner Monroe. Now, any discussion on that motion? Okay, I would comment that, you know, on occasion we have, and Mr. Dubois will recall that we have exercised jurisdiction in some instances. However, I believe in this case that it's not really required due to the nature of the operation. So, with that said, I'll ask for a vote on the motion. Commissioner Larson? Aye.
Commissioner Monroe? Aye. And I also vote aye. So, again, the motion carries three zero zero, and the action the activity is permitted as of right. So you can go ahead and deal with all those damn dead trees which is going to be a never ending job for you.
Unfortunately I'm afraid that's true it just won't stop. But thank you very much, gentlemen. I appreciate your help. Good. Thank you. And to getting your,
excuse from the meeting, heads forth. Good night. Okay. Good night. And returning to the agenda, well, number 12, other business, commission vacancies. Commission vacancies still exist, and I have nothing to report, and I've seen no expression of interest. I hope I'm alone in that, but I fear I am not. Anybody else? Comments? Okay. No, he'll appear.
Okay, then we'll move on to our agent's report. Mr. Wagner, agent Wagner, you can take it away.
Yeah. I just have got a few things. I talked to Mr. McCullough from 3 Lakeside Drive after the meeting last month when Commissioner Larson asked to get some clarification on on what was going on over there. And think he had, I talked to him on the phone and he had stated that he didn't, he wasn't, he didn't think that the old Sandy Beach, the previous Sandy Beach was supposed to be grassed in. I clarified that it was on the permit. So he went back and took a look at it and he's like, yeah, you're right. So last time I talked to him, I've seen him a couple of times since then. He was he had seeded that area. He had seeded up above the fire pit, put some topsoil up there too to bring it level. Like we had discussed in the permit. And he was having trouble with geese, eating a seed, and it was growing kind of slow, but it is seeded and topsoil was placed in the areas where it was supposed to be placed as a part of the part of the approved plan.
So that's that. The other thing that I sent to guys, last week was a notification from Algonquin Gas about some, some inspection projects. It was actually sent to chairman Elliott. Yeah. It's just a notification that they had a couple couple of anomalies in their pipeline that they had to that they had to investigate and maybe repair, which is all out of our jurisdiction, but they're required to notify us. And they're off of where is it? It's off of Juror Jurorvady Road. Probably not too far from where the timber harvest is. I think it's in the other direction. But you gotta do all that paperwork. And then
Hey, Joe. I got a on that that Algonquin gas line there, that that location that they're showing, that's a spring. That's a spring that has actually spread out across their their their gas line. And it's it's like it's all water now. It didn't wasn't always like that, but it is now. I don't know if it's why, but it it's a pretty, it is a spring. It literally comes up out of the ground kinda spring. But I don't know if you need if you know that place. I do. I have Yeah. No. I'm not familiar with it. So It almost seems like they should try to do something there. I don't know if we have you know, what kind of you know, but it it's it's just seems you know they just if they're just going to be driving back and forth over that area, they probably should do something.
They're going to kill all the frogs.
Unfortunately, as Agent Wagner pointed out, they're required only to notify us. There's no local jurisdiction over the gas line or, for that matter power line right of ways. They have to, you know, they if there's any permitting involved or they will have to go through the state DEEP. Oh,
There is a a contact on, what is it, the fourth page of that notification. The person that sent out the permitting thing has, you know, if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. It has a phone number and an email address. So, I mean, you you could bring that to their attention, and maybe they could add some extra erosion control or avoid that area or, you know, if if you're aware, you know, you have some local knowledge that that would help them, that's probably it'd probably be welcome, I would think. Yeah. Where where is that exactly? Number
four? It's a let's see. It's the the fourth page of that of that notification. It's it's right before the map section. It's just at the end of the letter. Oh, okay. It's got a contact name and a and a email address. Thank you. Yep. I see it now. Yeah,
I didn't know that you couldn't. We really don't have any jurisdiction there. Okay. Yeah,
but I mean, maybe they they probably appreciate the Like I said, the local knowledge because they're probably not from well, this one's, yeah, from Massachusetts, and I think that's a main phone number, so it's probably coming from out of town. And then. Yeah, the other ones I had were, two agent approvals. One was for a, 17 Lakeside Drive. The applicant is replacing a an existing shed with a 22 by 36 foot barn and he's moving a replacing a septic pump and rerouting piping and it's all in a a cleared area. It's in the Upland Review area of Andover Lake. I think it's about 40 feet from the lake at its closest. He's been working with me, provided a real complete application that's all available online with the nutrient worksheet. Like he's working with the ZBA soon.
So Joe, I was ecstatic when I saw the nutrient allocation worksheet. That is the first one since we've approved the The regulation, yeah. How
did that go? Because I was, you know, more than ecstatic from seeing the worksheet, I saw that we actually took good actions to mitigate the runoff. So, you know, I'm looking for feedback on how difficult that was to accomplish.
Thanks, Jed. Nick here. It wasn't so bad. The worksheet actually kind of guided me because I plugged in a couple of numbers and when I saw how much a dry well and a rain garden made, made the, you know, what I should do pretty clear.
Well, that's exactly what I was hoping to hear and so we've now set the bar for all who follow. Thank you.
Nick, could you provide your your last name for the record?
Sure. It's, Glowakki, g l o w a c k I. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Alright, so any more questions on that on that application? No. Alright, so then yeah, the last one would be 10 by 16 foot shed on 272 Route 6. That's just going to be on a gravel base. It's in 100 foot upland area of Unnamed brook. I think it's about 30 feet from the brook. It's it's again, it's on a, you know, it's going in the lawn. No, no tree removal or anything required. It's just going out the end of the house. So it was pretty simple project, no excavation required either. They're just putting it on a gravel base. So so that was a little busier month. Things are starting to pick up.
Very good. Any questions or comments regarding the agent report? Okay. Well, thank you, Agent Wagner. Then our next item on the agenda is to remind you that our next meeting will be on Tuesday, July 12, later because of the July 4 holiday, Independence Day holiday, at the usual place and time. With that, I can, I think, safely move to adjourn? Can I get a second on that? I'll second. Okay, so I moved and seconded to adjourn. No debate, no discussion. All those in favor signify by waving Okay, the vote is unanimous. Thank you all for being in attendance. Good to get through this much business in such a short bit of time. Look forward to seeing you in a month, and in the meantime, enjoy summer, and have a great Independence Day holiday.
Thank you. Thanks. You too. Good night. Good night, everybody. Good night. Night, everyone. Good night.