Okay. I call to order that no meeting on April 7th, 2026 at 7:06 p.m. Call the word here.
Here Bill was here.
Bill here.
Yeah, we have two people, but I don't know. And we have Marina and Harman. Yes.
Additions or changes in the order of agenda. Approval of minutes from January 6th.
I think we approved those at the last meeting. I think we're up to approving the minutes from February. Well,
did we have the February meeting? I don't think we have February. We did have February. Yeah. Because we have minutes from February on
I mean Dunian if you want to go back to three you can adjust the agenda to add
the February approval of
it that needs to be adjusted. Okay. So addition or changes in order to agenda. So approval of minutes has to be for you say February 3rd February 3rd. motion to approve the minute.
All we got to make a motion to change the agenda and then do a motion to change the agenda from January 6th to February 3rd.
A second. All in favor? I
pass. Now I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of February 3rd. Would anybody else maintain this February? I did. And so at the top of page two, it says Duncan motion to allow wetlands agent to approve permit 2601 after the 14-day period. That's the public hearing. And I didn't know well one it doesn't talk about the second I think we did second it I think it was unanimous approval but I'm not sure we had weapons agent 14 days after so I don't know that the bridge is
approved
for the point it's not here anymore
what we ask
I don't know what your last I don't know either.
I know John Kuskowski was going to be involved maybe with like enforcements, but I don't know. I think would be able to help with that. I don't know. I don't know that one. I don't know. That's above my pay grade.
Yeah.
So, can you read that again what the motion was? Well, it said you motion to allow the wetlands agent to approve the permit application by WWC number 26-01 after the 14-day period has passed for the public hearing,
right?
Did we have a public hearing?
Do we even know that?
Well, maybe we we didn't have a public hearing, but when when there's a application posted in the paper,
right?
And then we have to say that it was approved, then there's 14 days that you have to wait.
Well, we didn't approve. We put it on the agent. I don't know what happened. All I know is next day I know there's no agent
and so I don't know how that
Yeah.
played out.
Yeah.
So Wayne was going to forward anything to me. anything that came across his desk or his attention about I don't know anyone in the public reaching out or any enforcement actions or anything like that and I have not heard anything him about it but my my thinking is that it's probably okay but the record needs to be clear on how that happened because you know Joe I got that email from Joe right about the time we were going to have the the March meeting that we didn't have Right. Right.
So, I think he was here till the beginning of March. And if we did this in February,
maybe it got done, but I I don't know when he
I don't know how he approved it. I don't know when he had to publish it in the paper that it was approved because that's what allows the public to take the 14 days to report if they
and so I don't know what happened. Is that doable? Can you call Joe Wagner?
I can't call him. Yeah. All right. I get a hold of
I got a phone number right here.
I'm trying for Joe's email right now.
But the question is we should we should have on our website, you know, the the notice, the legal notice. There's a legal notice that we have to have published that he approved it. You're
right. That's a good point. Okay. So
it better be kind of because we're out there working at it or at least we're getting right. There's some stuff going on.
They had big orange signs this week. So the thing for the minutes that I the correction to the minutes that I was looking for was that it was seconded by somebody and
it was it was you and it it passed 40. Why I didn't
Okay. Well, and I went looking because I went looking for the video to check it out today and you know the video from the last meeting was not available for you.
Yep. I have you second. So I'll fix that. You second and pass 4. So therwise I don't know. I mean the the application's on the website but I don't know.
There's no I don't see any public hear.
I don't know if it was in the
I didn't see it.
It's under archives already. So
Okay. Well, reach out to me about that. Yeah. is I mean I I guess he'd be acting as a temporary well.
Now the other question that I had on the minutes was on item eight where under agent report Joe Wagner provided update had inspection on property on Shotty Mill Road by transfer station application in for road construction to begin after ground thoughts. I went and looked under our archive to convert things and there's no application in there for
and so I don't know what that's talking about
if they even came in if they even submitted anything for it.
I don't see anything for
so I guess was there a house number or anything there? I don't think you hear that.
No, there's not. But I would think that for that question, we might want to defer approval of the minutes till the next meeting where we can
all that up.
Sure. Yeah. Okay. So, I make a motion to table. It was just a second one. Correct.
You can just table both. You can just table the whole motion. Yeah.
The approval for both items on the minutes.
You just table the minutes. Just leave them on the agenda for the next.
Okay. So, I have a motion to table the minutes from last meeting.
I'll second. All in favor? Motion pass. Yeah. I'll I'll talk to Wayne about these and see what we can come up with. But I don't recall any discussion about this property put in the road yet. I don't remember talking about that either.
Yeah. Unless it was just supposed to be Joe was going to receive the application and bring it to us and then
that's what I thought it was and I don't think anything ever
came from what I see on the website. I don't see anything
the project.
Yeah.
Dissolve
anything. Yeah. or they could be waiting on approval because or agent in Portland because we don't or agent maybe because we don't
here's no it's going to end up coming to the commission for approval because even when we get a new wetlands agent he's not going to be certifying to do anything in this Okay. No public comment to hold business. New business. We receive application permit number 26-2. Replacement of bridge number 001007 Lake Road over Chain Road.
That me.
That is you. how would you like me to do this? just paper or
so Howard has some stuff on the easel here and there's some stuff I can share on the screen too. I guess whatever is easier for you guys to
Well, I think it's
best to use what's on the screen. I mean, we have all the stuff in the on the website. Okay. And
he emailed me some video record.
Yeah, some of the stuff on the website is very grainy. So that's why we had it here. You would just see it. I can share both at the same time. So you let me know. Whatever you want to start with, I can pull up.
Yeah, you start with the drawings. Yeah. Okay. All right. good evening. my name is Howard Farmer. professional engineer with Jacobson Associates. I work with Joe Dylan. I guess you guys probably know Joe Dylan. I've been working on this project for a few years here. it's a town project. So, I'm here representing the town. this is a a small culvert project, probably big for this town. and it's a grantf funed project, and I'll get into a little bit of that later. I've got maybe five, maybe 10 minutes of stuff to tell you, just to give you a quick smattering. You know, this is the first meeting. Some towns don't want to speak at all, but somebody invited me here today, so I assumed you would like a a bit of a presentation.
Sure.
Wayne initially emailed me and just kind of told us that this was going on and how we normally go about these things. I said that presentation just to give us a background and kind of an idea of you know what the plan is and what your thoughts were.
Sure. Sure. Okay. But I do think I think the town is paying for this one because this is a town road and having gone to the finance you public hearing that they had the other night. If it was on the state road the state would be we could get reimbured. So this
not I don't think it makes any difference from your presentation, but I do think the town is on the hook.
So this is a this is a state local bridge program project. So the state bridge program is providing a grant for 50% of the total project cost.
You just had probably a $2 million project on the per million,
right? So you recently had million program project, right? Yeah.
Right. That was a little different. That was probably 100%. was
or an 8020 splot one or the other.
So, this is 50/50.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah,
that you're ready.
yeah. So, let's maybe the next sheet there. How about the colored ones? So, there was remember the individual ones that just sent a few, but let's go to the colored ones. It's easier, I think, for these guys to see. maybe number one down there. Yeah. Okay. So, so this is our existing condition plan. Will this show up on you to see it? So, I'm just going to go with it. so, The existing cover carries Lake Road sort of in an east west orientation over Chenny Brook which flows from south at the bottom of the sheet up towards the north towards the the lake. the cover is just immediately east of Basola Lake Road. The wetlands are well obviously you can see the brook which sort of a light blue and then the sort of shaded blue on the outside of that. So the first dark line, if you will, is the the Wellman line. The green line way up over to the left of the sheet is a 200 foot upland review line. And then the next line to the right of that, the blue one there, that's 100 foot. And if you look way over to the right, you'll see a little bit of green. And if you look to the left, is a little bit of a light blue. the darker blue upstream, dark blue line dashed upstream and downstream. So that's the 100redyear existing flood plane. Just to give you a sense for how much of the woods would flood during a 100red-year storm event, the existing cohort is a 14 foot span by 8.25 foot rise bolted corrugated metal pipe arch with a a concrete invert. barrel
length is about 37 feet long. The direction of water flow. The roads about 30 feet wide. the barrel has a perched outlet. Sure you guys have heard of that sort of thing before. Sort of prevents the passage of aquatic organisms wanting to swim upstream. bedrock is visible right at the outlet. So bedrock is pretty high and that was confirmed with some borings that we did. The the problem with the cover and maybe you could go to the photos. I think it was the first emails I sent you tonight and I think it's the filters. So the problem with the culvert is the downstream wing walls and parapits are cement mason units and there's 100% section loss of a number of flanges and webs of random sections. That's yeah keep scrolling down. Okay, there you go. It's good enough to see. So that's the downstream side. So each one of what
you're looking at is cement masonry units. I don't know exactly what's behind that. You know, it could just be a vertical wall that's, you know, not very wide. So, there's not a lot left holding the run up. roadside barriers don't meet current standards of design. And of course, I mentioned the perched outlet. The, upstream side of the bridge has cast in place wing walls and head walls, but for whatever reason on the downstream side here, they used cement masonry units. show the opposed plans. will be the second colored plan. So, it was the email that I sent tonight that had two PDFs. That'll be the one that says number. Okay. So, this is colored. It's a little bit busy, but it's colored. So, I think you get the the idea. So the extent of the road work is sort of at at the limits of these these hatched areas are basically a road construction entrances but you can see the limits of the road work. The width of the road is
going to remain the same in 30 ft. The geometry is the same. Both the vertical profile horizontal profiles the same. The intersection for both solar road is essentially the same. Although when you pull out of a solar and you take a right the radius is going to be enlarged a little bit. there is some storm drainage. You can see three catch bases kind of around the Walaw Lake Road intersection. Those are going to discharge through the wall. The proposed structure, the proposed structure is going to be a pre-cast reinforced concrete three-sided frame. So, it's sort of like a box cover with no floor. And that's going to sit and I'll show you a detail later on. You you'll understand it completely, but it's going to sit on a pre-cast, excuse me, a cast inplace reinforced footing, which is going to be poured directly on the rock. And then the rest of the concrete portion of the bridge will also be cast in place, reinforced the wing walls, head walls, bridge rail, parapit, and walls. I'll show you some details afterwards just to get you a quick a quick review of that. The bridge was designed hydraulically per the DOT drainage manual for 100-year storm event based on the contributing drainage area. roadside barriers will be improved. We'll have a bridge bredell and approach gyro which will be the current standards. I'll show you this too on another detail but we're going to have inside the barrel we're going to have a riparian shelves on both sides of the channel. So for those
terrestrial animals and I've seen this actually they like to run along the edge of the stream rather than having to go up over the embankment with a potential mortality issue now they can you know go through the barrel. I have seen it
actually happen that way. So it does happen. we're also going to have natural stream bottom material placed back anywhere where the channel is disturbed. It's sort of the the grayish area in the middle of the channel both up and downstream of the culvert. culvert's going to be slightly realigned. So the outlet will be the same position horizontally. The inlet will move to the east about six feet. primarily because otherwise just created a very very steep slope and tall walls taller walls to climb back up to the basil road from a permit perspective actually let me do erosion control perspective because that's really what we're here for tonight. So this is from our erosion control plan. there are erosion checks around the toes of the slopes which are I guess that green color which are blankets will have blankets on all the slopes. The inlets, the catch basins will all have con controls around those. There'll be construction entrances at the three sort of entrances to the project if you will. we have a dedicated pump discharge point at the far northeast quadrant there. If you look downstream of the bridge to the right, you'll see a little square. So, it's outside of the wetlands, but in a sort of a flat area. So, the water coming out of that will will flow back into the channel. I can show you pictures of the erosion control details if you'd like to see that. there's also going to be on this plan, I think we show there's 34 plants to sort of reestablish the embankment. okay. Yeah. And I think that's that's going to be it for this one. From a permit perspective, obviously we're here
tonight for a weapons permit. The town determined that a planning zoning CGS824 permit is not required. We're going to pursue an Army Corps permit under the nationwide program that came out in the middle of March. D's granted a 401 water quality certification to them for the two nationwide permits that this project would would fall under. It's going to be one of the two. So that's taken care of. as part of that federal permit process, there's some due diligence work that we had to accomplish. We checked the DP natural diversity database. Based on the last map we saw, this project's not in an area of concern. We had to reach out to the state historic preservation office. They have no concerns. Had to reach out to US official wildlife. they identified a bat and a butterfly and we're going to be dealing with that. And also had to reach out to four different Indian tribes and we did not receive any response. But that is very typical. no response. Is there a
response in my my experience? And then the agency that seems to carry the largest sword in the equator here would be Connecticut D Inland Fisheries Division. their primary comment was to maintain a certain peri time of year restriction for unconfined instream activities. We obtained that comment from them prior to the new nationwide permit release in March, which is actually a more restrictive time of year restriction for Connecticut, which basically is that no one can find in stream work in April, May or June, and you cannot put a coffer dam in or take it out during April, May, or June. And that's a little bit different than the way it used to be. So, right now our drawings have the note on there that complies with fisheries, but it's on my to-do list that we're going to change it
to comply with core because we have to submit this to the core and it will be acceptable to fisheries. It's now sort of the de facto standard basically April, May, June, spring season, no one can find activities and no installation of a coffin dam or removal. You used to be able to put a coffin dam in or take it out any time of year. It didn't matter. but now April, May, and June are out of play. so maybe what I do, can we go back to the big set of plans? I could just show you real quickly the general plan so you can just see the structure real quick in case there's any confusion about what it might look like.
it's in the Yeah, it's in the progress. Is this the original bridge of this rotor?
Excuse me. Is this the original bridge of this road? Do you know?
Well, I'm not that old. I don't know. I don't know. and and for all I know, the bridges there now could have been a replacement for something prior. Yeah. The lake didn't used to be there. Never mind. There you go. Yeah. I just wanted you to see a depiction of the elevation viewing structure for whatever that's worth. maybe I just want to let them see the plan view at the top. Yeah. So at the plan view in the top right corner of the sheet which shows the plan of the the frame. You can see the parapits along the edge of the road. But I wanted you to see the storm drain line opposed. It's going to come through the wall of the frame and then we'll have a little bit of rip wrap beneath that because there's water dripping out of it and I don't want it to take away from the riparian shelf or or the channel within the barrel. If you can scroll the sheet up just a little bit, you can get a sense there. You get a sense for the channel for the barrel. Sort of a trapezoid with two shells on the left and right.
So you're saying the water on the road is going to be going down into inside and draining into the river or stream under the bridge. so the water of the road would get intercepted by the catch basin grates and then conveyed by pipe between those catch basins and that pipe rather than discharging to the channel outside the bridge would come through the wall of the bridge and discharge to the channel you know within the structure. So I I believe the invert is going to be about 5t above the riparian shelf if I recall correctly. we had, you know, I had difficulties trying to take that in like right down to the stream. it's the steep the channel is very steep down from the embankment is steep down to the stream and
you know I would rather not put you guys tell me what you'd like but I would rather not put the outlet right at the edge of the stream and just I'd rather have it sort of spill on something or have some sort of erosion control or ideally it'd be better just to let it sort of cascade down some sort of a slope with rip wrap but this seemed to be the better alternative in our opinion. Every town's different. Not sure.
So, so how far up how high up is it going to be the opening into the out of the bridge? let me just double check Yeah, about 5T about 5T to the invert. It's a 15-inch corrugated plastic pipe that will go through the wall of the frame. And so the invert would be at about the 5ft level. So it'll be dropping out to drop from there down to some rip wrap. Right. Right.
Then that'll run into a stream.
No. Run into a stream. Is it It's going to be on the inside.
Yeah. Right here.
Okay.
So, this is the This is So, this is the roadway.
Yeah.
And these are the parapits bridge rails. These are the walls of the frame. Correct. The frame here.
Oh, so okay. So, it's going to be coming this way.
Yeah. This views you'd actually don't see it, but it sort of be coming through the wall past that.
No, no, no, no. Right. Right. Flush to the inside of the wall. So, the water would
it's not going to come shooting out of there.
That's where the rip rabbit is going to be right here.
Yes. Exactly. Which is what we show that square area there. It's just in these views. You don't see that.
Sure.
So, we didn't show flush there.
Yes. Right. The end of the pipe will be flush with the inside of the wall of the frame.
How far is the rip bed supposed to come out into the channel?
I I show it with a Yeah, a break line here. The attempt is we're going to bring it right down to the bottom, but make that a little bit clearer.
Yeah, we're bring it right down to the bottom. I really don't want it to erode anything on it way down,
right? Yeah,
because that was my concern. I don't want to cause any like turbidity inside the channel bottom and wash out that channel bottom and have, you know, your sediment moving downstream. instruction period, we're looking at the June to October, fivemonth period in 2027. So go out probably to bid later this year or early next year. we do we do have bypass pipes. We got to do the construction in the dry. So we're going to put two smaller diameter bypass pipes right through the existing pipe and then use sort of sandbag super sacks to create a coffer dam on the upstream and downstream sides of that bypass pipe so the contractor can dewater the work area. and that was also designed per the DOT denge manual in this case for a two-year storm. that's about it. It's, you know, I'm opening up to your questions. Again, it's a it's a it's a grant funed project, 50% town project. right now the town is hopefully going after getting the easements. really about well one of the things will be holding up going out to bid but we have a little bit of time between now and the end of the year or say the January time frame when we go out to bid
what would you say the safety is on this bridge right now
safety on the bridge right now you know I I wouldn't want to say I wouldn't want to say I would go on record and say I can tell you that typically you know if a bridge is not posted the idea is it's capable of carrying all state legal loads that's not to say that there's was the problem.
Yeah.
I we haven't been asked to go out there and take a look at it beyond the initial look. We did. So I mean when I went out there initially, you know, the metal was in pretty decent shape. There was a little bit of corrosion. Not bad. It's that downstream wall that's a little disturbing because it's a fair drop from the road to the invert. And you sort of wonder, you know, is that the masonry you're looking at? Is that the only thing holding up the road embankment?
Is there concrete behind it? Is there something more behind it? because it sure looks horrible standing looking.
I was there today. I went by there just to check it out. Man, this thing terrible.
Yeah. So, it's it's something that definitely needs to be done. It's a it's a decent drop from the road to the inverter.
And so, the road is going to be closed for the you in that area for the period June through November whatever. Yes, the road will be closed and we have to maintain access to Pola. I didn't really go over the M&P plan, which I could if you like. I didn't think it was too dramatic, but we're going to have to cut sort of a one lane shared road. yeah, as you're coming out of Pola, you're going to you're going to veer off to the left before you actually get to the intersection. Oh.
And we're going to if the property owners listening now, it's going to be a surprise. I don't know if the town's reached out to them yet, but we've got to get an easement from them to have a onelane shared road to connect Bolo back to Lake Road. So it kind of skirts the work. All the work will be on the right as you drive on that one lane road.
so Lake Road will be closed, Bolo would be open.
Okay.
Yeah.
equipment staging for the construction. where would the equipment be staged? Yeah, typically typically they do that right in the road. and because it's closed that makes sense reality.
Okay. what are the potential vegetation impacts and how will they be penalized? These are questions that we had from another board member that could be your time.
Yeah. maybe the first thing I should do is maybe go can we show from here the very last plan is an environmental impact plan
in this set. Maybe I start with that. Sure. There we go. So, can you can you zoom in? So, this is the last plan in the set. and this is going to this is showing sort of environmental impacts. There is a table off to the right on the drawing which is sort of out of the view at the moment but all these little numbers in the white refer to that table. So for instance the red number one is a permanent impact to the workhorse. That's actually where the existing barrel is. the green is temporary impact to the water course. Although I will tell you I don't I believe this is this is an error here on the inlet side on the
left. all that that all the grading going back up the hill that should be a permanent impact in the lower course that should be red. So that area seven really should be adjusted excuse me that's a permanent impact in the wet and not a temporary impact in the run. so vegetation impacts, you know, the embankment is sort of steep out there now and obviously if we're going to be grading the embankment, the vegetation is going to be disturbed, removed, trees would be removed. slopes would be organized to a 2 to1 smoke. That's why we've got you know, we reestablish the vegetation. At the moment, it's a it's a seed typical seed mix. There are 34 plants proposed that we had our soil scientists recommend based on I guess the the moisture of the soil or how close you're planting lower to the wetland. He's got one species. If it's a little higher up is a different species and that's sort of out of my wheelhouse. one thought that I had driving up here tonight is if this is something that the commission would like to see. Some commissions like to see this. So the rip wrap we have on our detail is pretty much just rip wrap. But the interstases the voids are filled to make it a solid mass. some towns like to see a little bit of top soil on that and then perhaps a wetman seed mix where it's appropriate. We run the rip wrap right above one foot above the 100year flood plane line. But perhaps down low a wetland seed mix would be appropriate and then maybe the other half of the rip wrap with a regular seed mix. I mean, be happy to if
that's something this commission feels important, we could incorporate something like that. I don't want to be be so cold suggested addition of approval, but that I guess that's how perhaps it could be. I'm not sure.
I don't know how everybody else feels. Part of me almost feels that just the plain brick roof wrap would be better to catch any sediment coming from anywhere else before it goes into the water course versus putting vegetation back. What are your guys thoughts? It's pretty steep there.
Real steep, especially on that left side.
Yeah. All the wash in. It's going to wash in. Doesn't matter if you
with the rip rat or the other.
It's that's a
that's steep like this
out there today. Which is why you see a lot of grading, you know, all around the bridge down the embankments. We're we're trying to organize that back to a two months. kind of like when it goes down then kind of maybe try to make it a little less of a before it gets to the water. What are you saying?
it it is actually on the inlet as you're approaching the bridge on the right. It definitely is. You can see on the right is
and and there's a little bit on the I guess on the outlet on the left and the right because of the remains of the riparian shelf. not so much on the inlet to the left. You know, this there's a little bit of riparian shelf and then of course it goes right up to the one right up to Bosola.
Right.
Yeah.
So, I'm saying it's like it's steep steep steep and it goes right down to the water steep. And is there like would you think about maybe making it less steep when you get closer to the water?
it off a little bit. I mean to make it less steep getting closer to the garden would be a a major revision. footings would have to be dropped on the walls all the walls because you know the grade is is maybe it's a little less steep at the bottom maybe I don't know how much you're thinking about and then it goes up two to one to make it even less steep and then you know push those temporary those permanent grades back would require dropping the footings more. our footings are sort of stepped, you know, as a grade climbs, we don't want to keep the footings real deep because it's sort of a waste of money if we don't need to keep them that deep. So, the footings get stepped trying to maintain a frost protection over the bottom footing. I know on the last bridge we were talking about there was any discussion by Hank Groomer and I didn't hear any of that here and I don't know if there's just no heptoologist concern with this one. I mean the last one was over the Hop River and this one's called Little Brook but
Hag is a herpatologist.
Yes.
Yeah. So, this project did not fall within an NDB area of concern based on the last map we looked at. Okay, that's usually the trigger. They'll write back and tell you what species and you know, typically it's a turtle.
Okay.
Typically, it's a wood turtle, a box turtle, or
Oh, yeah.
Usually what we have.
Yeah. This one This one didn't have that.
Okay. So far,
there are wood turtles in Brook. Well, I somebody could there's a form you can fill out with deep and and then what they do is those bubble areas change. They publish that map I think once or maybe twice a year.
Yeah.
And it changes.
So I guess it depends who gets there first, you or me.
I would think that either you or Wayne would just reach out to Hank and make sure he doesn't have any concerns about that. I know that cuz I live over there and I I've seen them.
Okay.
They there are they are there. I've seen Korea. So,
okay.
Now, they weren't I didn't go over there by the bridge, but I mean upstream. So, just so you know, just
I mean, I don't know why we couldn't just incorporate something about that. So we typically, you know, unless unless the DP tells us something specific they want with respect to turtles, what I would suggest is we like to put a picture of a turtle on the drawings and color so everybody can see what a wood turtle looks like. I'm talking about the contractor's personnel. And then we have sort of standard turtle protection notes which sort of follow what DP would typically tell us. things like putting up exclusionary fencing, you know, sweeping the area in the morning, get the turtles out of there if you have if there are any there, knowing what they look like. you know, they're protected so you don't you don't hurt them. and you pick them up, you put them out in the direction we're walking, that sort of thing. So, I mean, if that's something the commission feels important, we can certainly add that regardless of what she says because they're there.
Wood turtle, you're saying
they're in there. I'm an eyewitness.
One concern I know that we've had as a commission before was certain bridge projects like I think it was long hill in the proposed plan was to remove some vegetation and then after the project you know Jed had the concern also before a lot more vegetation was removed that was not talked about. what are your thoughts on that?
I mean we have so the lines with the like in the bottom of the she saw with the three dashes are easements.
we don't have a legal right to go outside those easements. you're seeing the sort of curly line that follows the toe of the slope as sort of clearing limit. You know my thoughts are we've got this thing braided and there are no more contours to show. This is these are all the contours there are. There's nothing forgotten in here. And we don't have the right to go beyond. I don't know if you could you could pan so you can see the outlet side of the easement lines going around everything. So I guess so there's there's room to move there. Maybe that's a concern on the downstream side far left and right. There's a lot of white area there beyond the the woods. But usually you know what we'll do is there'll be an inspector on this job from our office. That's the plan at the moment. and the contractor is required to you know use a license surveyor to flag the limits and then our inspector would walk it with them and make sure it generally you know follows the the plan. I've had projects before and I'm not suggested this here where commissions
have said I want you to put a jersey barrier all the way around the perimeter of the work to make sure because that's a pretty definitive thing. You know, it's easy to knock a silk fence over, but getting a jersey bearer, you know, 20 foot stick of it or 10 foot stick of it through the woods, multiple is pretty disturbing in of itself. Maybe the thing to do is put up silk fence and maybe maybe you want snow fence also. You know, it's a little higher is orange. maybe something like that would help to reinforce not not structurally but reinforce that hey this is the limit. so that that external limit that you have there, is that just going to be flagged or is that going to be still current? That outside line
the line the easement line. Oh, so you're wondering why it's so is it just going to be flagged right now or are you guys actually playing?
I'm not sure I understand. Is it just going to be flagged?
Like just just the boundaries are just going to be marked like
Oh, the line will be marked in the field. Okay. Is it are you guys putting up silt fence or is that not part of the plan?
Yes. No, sil fence is part of the plan.
Okay.
That was that was my question. I guess you guys are using sil fence.
Yeah. And in our surveyor that's part of what we do was to you know put up stakes and flagging and all the turning points and temporary easements. I don't think there's any Oh, there's a small permanent easement on this one and they'll physically you know put a pipe or a mod in for that but
Sure.
Yeah. So, so a concern of mine, you know, is if we have a weapons agent, he's our expert, you know, and and again, you know, I've been kind of if Hank likes it, I like it. But
I think the last bridge would turn over the wetlands agent to approve. You know, we ought to I'm not sure we should be approving this without the benefit of a wetland agent.
Sure.
I don't know where we stand on hiring one of those,
right? Technically, we have no one in the field right now currently to right
o oversee the project.
Well, and he's supposed to come to us and say, "I like it." you know, I think this is a good plan or whatever. He's our technical expert on that stuff. And I'm sure the plan is great.
Sure.
You know, to to represent, you know, it it Nathan Jacobson, you know, is our town engineer. So, you know, I'm sure that's all there, but the key a key guy on the commission is down here, right?
Yeah, that's definitely a valid concern. that we don't have someone representing commission on site or you know visiting the site or going with the plans or Yeah. And we know does anybody know where we stand in the new region?
I have not heard anything.
Okay. Yeah.
It's not your fault. That's our right.
Yeah. No, I I understand the frustration.
Sure. I mean, at least for now, it's we're once receiving them.
Yeah. Till we got at least we got another month. But
correct.
It is a concern of mine that that our agent isn't working with Howard to
concern. Yeah. Or, you know, because really we have no one right now to present any concerns or positive or negative, you know, things to us. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess we can receive the application.
I guess we could ask Joe Dylan to fill in that role, but I he probably I'm sure he's all in favor of it. He must
Yeah, that'd be sort of a strange conflict. Yeah. I mean, Joe's right in my office across the hall from It's It really should be an independent person if that's what you're you want it reviewed. It should be something to repent for. Yeah,
I'm sure we'll try to figure it out.
Yeah.
if there's sediment build up on the upstream side of the bridge, how is that going to be sediment?
Upstream side of the bridge. So
my phone I think is somebody thinking about just just random maybe we should look at the war handling plan maybe that
let's do that also probably in the first third of the set.
So I'm thinking if you have sediment build up on up side on the upstream side of the bridge once that builds up is that going to wash downstream and change the water course. All right. Yeah, let's take a look at the water again.
I put in my work when I was putting the passc. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very fast. It's probably I don't know. I guess like she or something. each on the top of the left.
It just seems weird that they're just one on top of another. They're just all that all
original. They're all They're just old. We haven't haven't done haven't been worked on.
Yeah. So, this is the the water handling plan I mentioned before about sleeping two smaller diameter pipes through the existing barrel with sort of these supersack type sandbags. You guys have probably seen them. They're like a cubic yard to create a coffee dam up and downstream. I you know, I don't Is there going to be sediment? How's the sediment going to be handled? First of all, I'm thinking to myself that, you know, the coffer dam is going to maintain the flow. So, you know, you're going to get flow from upgrading. So, to go through the pipes, to come out of the pipe, continue on mering way. But is somebody thinking that they're, you know, while that's going on, we're going to get some sedimentation coming down the slopes and into the brook. I guess that's what somebody's saying. so I guess I was
Are they looking for some more erosion control at at the base of slopes? we have rip wrap which to your point is one reason to leave it the voids open because if you do get ceed coming down,
it catches there. Yeah. The other thing I'm thinking about is we have a rose control blanket on all the vegetated slopes.
So, you know, will there not be any sedimentation? I mean, I can't stand here and say that, but I can tell you that would be a heck of a lot better than something that, you know, was not blanketed, especially because, you know, when you first put the top so the seed down, sure enough, you get a big old rainstorm just Yeah.
and I'm thinking that by the time, you know, once the the bridge is in place, the wall walls are in place, most of the walls are in place, that water handling can come out of there. that's not really answering the question. I guess the bigger I guess the bigger issue is that we've got rip wrap. The rip wrap starts right at the most upstream and most most upstream end of the natural stream bottom materials. All rip wrap on the on the banks all the way to the bridge. So at the total of all that slope on the upstream side and on the downstream side, it's sort of the same thing. I don't know if you can you guys can see the difference in the hatch pattern between the blanket area and the rip wrap. It's kind of hard to detect. I think on the screen here.
Yeah,
but there's I can maybe I could point here.
Yeah. On the as you go through the barrel on the right hand side, there's a wood
that goes all the way to that coffer dam. Can you see the hatch with sort of the circles in it?
Yeah. Yeah. And the same with on the left side after you go through the barrel. I guess that's that's probably what capture any seven. Are you going to be reworking those by the road? Not right at the stream, but where you have all those lines and numbers. Are you going to rework that whole area or you going to leave what's there? there. There rocks over there.
so I could point to it here, Bill.
Yeah, that spot.
Yeah, but you're along this along the stream edge. Can you zoom in to the outlet area in particular? Yeah, just
Okay. Yeah. So this this area is sort of a continuation to the riparian shell. It's fairly flattish compared to the 2:1 slope. So to your point, you come out of the channel, you know, the channel needs to have a defined a little bit of a defined bank and you're coming up out of that channel about 3 ft, you know, and there some some other level area that's sort of the end of the riparian shell. It gets a little wider as you come out of the bridge and then the slope begins to come up. So to your point, you know, you got a channel, it does flatten out a little bit and then it goes back up. I don't know if that's sort of answering your question. You can see that over here too. Comes up about 3 ft from the channel because that's what we have going through the barrel. We have sort of a little trapezoidal channel and then this flattish area here. It's it's not completely flat. It's, you know, about a one foot drop across it, but it's flatter than 2:1 considerably. And that's the continuation of the riparian shelf. And then from there, it's 2 to1 back up. You can look at the from that side too. See the same thing over here. This is Yeah, you can we see the same thing here in this area. and then over here as you approach the barrel on the left. Okay. I guess my question really is is you're going to it's already kind of what you're do talking about, but are you going to
rework it and is this all going to be redone along the road there?
Oh, per these plans? Yes.
Okay. Yeah. Because it's already there. There's stuff there already. And it kind of looks similar to what you have up there. But
yeah, if you really studied it and you looked at we look at another plan that has just the contours but none of the hatch, you can see the proposed contours versus existing. I mean, I could show you that it's it's
So, you're going to
kind of do the same, but not really.
You're going to redo it.
We're going to redo it. We're going to redo it. Yeah. In some places, it's very steep.
You're going to redo that old stuff cuz
somebody dropped a whole lot of rock out there already. I don't know if you probably have seen it.
I haven't been out there in a few months.
Yeah, there's a lot of rock there already. Where was that dropped?
President said that relatively
I don't know why it was put there. It was just there
something recent.
Probably probably for the the you know the the same thing that we've just been talking about of silk running down off the road and off that slope down into that area into the stream. But because there's so much rock there, there's not going to be a lot of silk coming up there.
Where where was it dropped? I'm just I'm just concerned that something that would affect the cost of the job. I have to have somebody swing right here. This this spot right here only dropped
place. Yeah. Right over here. This whole area.
Oh, okay. So, something recent.
something kind of recent. I mean, within Hey, I don't know how long, but All right. We'll take a look at that and look back at our existing condition. I mean, it's I was just, you know, you may answered my question actually. You're going to redo the whole thing. That's what I'm asking.
We're going to redo the whole thing.
You're going to redo that whole thing.
Again, if you study it, you'll see there's a difference between the existing contours. It's going to get redone.
So, you said the outlet's going to be in about the same place, but the inlet is going to move more east. Is that going to change water velocity at all?
No. If anything, the water velocity is going to is going to decrease certainly in a large storm, a much larger waterway area, almost twice the span.
Okay.
A larger opening.
Yeah, the existing is is 14 ft.
you know, we we wanted to put a riparian shelf in there. I know that's something that I I don't believe it's currently a regional permit requirement from the core, but I've had projects in the past where the core have asked for that and we thought this would be an appropriate place for that. And that's not the shelf is two or three feet wide. I don't remember. We can look at the plan. so you have the channel bottom inside the barrel that kind of comes up at 2 to one or three or four feet. And then that riparian shelf. you add all that up together, you end up with about a 28 foot span.
How big? 21
about 28th 28 and also I should say that the core permit requires that the the span be at least 1.2 times the bank full width
of the existing channel and I know that played into it as well and there wasn't a lot of hydraulic improvement here because that really isn't the issue. The real issue is is that downstream wing wall going to hold up or we going to lose that wing wall that's got to be repaired. and anyway, so I don't recall exactly, but it could be that the 1.2 bank full width controlled the span at 28T span, but then it it worked out with making the travel channel and repairing the shelves.
And you said right now the span is 14
ft.
Yep.
So you're not going to use that same material that they that's up there now, right? Same kind kind of what are you going to put up kind of is it all concrete?
Yeah, all the concrete will be except for that the frame will be pre-cast concrete.
Everything else will be reinforced cast and place concrete.
Yeah, we're not going to use CMUs which are you know concrete units where the storm water control comes out on the inside there. That's going to be pretty fast. Correct.
Now, is there any potential for freezing on that for to I don't know reduce storm water control if that freezes as as it's coming out?
Oh. Oh, as it comes out. Yeah. I suppose you could get a little bit of icing, but you know, it's like any other storm drain. It's you know it's ground is fairly warm and then pipes are down there three and a half feet and you know you don't I don't think I've ever really seen a storm drain freeze you know in the dead of winter I mean you know who knows what the future holds for temperatures in the winter but I mean storm lines you know when you're not getting melt when you when when you get melt they operate even in the winter
I you can probably get a little bit of ice where this thing breaks free and runs through the air or spills down the sun out of the pre-cast right on top of the rip wrap.
Okay. Because I guess my concern was where it comes out if that freezes and the water can't flow. Is the water up on the road going to go around the storm water control and cause erosion down into the bank.
Well, I would that would be just such an extreme event. I just could not imagine.
I'm just curious if that's you know or is that not not probably not
you know I'll never be one to say it'll never right. But I just cannot imagine because I mean it's a 15-inch pipe that would have to freeze solid and at the same time some you're somehow getting water to run. Well, why is that solid and water sort of a period of time where
the the cold temperatures got a little warmer
and we actually had preip instead of snow falling. I just
Okay.
I just can't imagine.
Sure. Makes sense. Does the plan have any consideration for the storm of the century coming through while you've got half the channel secured? I guess better rip than
Yeah, that's the
good news is the roads already closed and go.
It's a million dollar question and inevit I want to say I want to say inevitably because this past summer we had I don't know three or four of these projects going on and it worked out great. No, but there was no big event. Okay.
But it always seems like, you know, as soon as you, you know, reduce reduce the air waterway area, you can put it through a smaller pipe based on a two-year storm for the drain man. That's no guarantee that you're not going to get some big event coming through there during construction that's going to flood the coffer dam and, you know, make a mess. that's possible.
Yeah.
Right. And then that has to get cleaned up. I guess it one thing I will say is that the the flow, a two-year flow and a 100red-year flow, they're not it's not a linear relationship. I mean, a two-year discharge is probably about 50% of a of a 100red-year discharge. So, it's that makes you feel any better. but yeah, it's possible. This year happened to be real good. I' I've had projects where, you know, and we have notes in the drawings. We we that's why we show where the flood limits are. And the notes on the drawing say, you know, if Noah predicts a a flood a flood event in the area of the project
to get your stuff out of the flood plane. That's why we show him where the flood plane is. And you know, that doesn't mean he's going to pull his coffee dam, but he might pull any piles or equipment and piles of material or equipment or things that, you know, could create a problem. So, we do our best to protect against it. Sounds pretty good to me. Anybody else have any concerns?
All right. So, we received the application. so have to be till next month till we approve it. I'll reach out to Hank and see what his thoughts are. I'm gonna I'll reach out to Wayne too as well to see kind of where we stand or how we go forward without agent and I'm sure Wayne will be in contact with you. I'd like to you know put some things in here I said I would do the turtle notes and photo if you'd like me to do that. I think it's probably a good idea anyway about the wood turtles regardless of whether if you guys want to just not even worry about it I'll put it on there. the notes, the time of year notes to comply with the army corps. Anyway, when I do this, should I resubmit room eyes drawings for the record? How do you like how you like given to you certainly days before your next meeting?
yeah, I would reach out to I guess to Wayne because Wayne was contacted you before this meeting, correct?
no, no, I'm not sure. I got an email from three different places in town. It was signed by Wayne, but something said admin at Andover, zoning at Andover, and building something. I'm not really sure.
Building is probably Lynn.
Okay.
Zoning is Wayne.
There's Wayne.
Admin. I don't know.
I think that would be Lynn, too.
Lynn.
Yeah. I should know.
Yeah. Zoning would come from Wayne.
Right. So Wayne was going to reach out to you about coming to presenting here tonight. Just give us basically a rundown and a briefing on the whole project. Right.
yeah, I guess if you wanted to submit any updates or anything to him
and then humanity contact,
do you guys do a sidewalk or
we we can do a sidewalk?
I'm not asking for it. I'm just, you know, if you do, I guess I should be there decide to do that.
Yeah. if we decide to do a sidewalk or something. do you guys feel necessary to do one at this point?
It needs to be replaced yesterday.
Yeah, he's nervous after today. What's it done yesterday? especially if it's going to be solid concrete instead of what we have there, which is some something that
I think our sidewalk if we decide to do one, we can definitely reach out to you and let you know if you'd like to be present for it.
And should I get revised drawings in a certain number of days before your next meeting?
Just just so I know what to shoot for.
Yeah. A week would be good. I was just going to say maybe about a week before the next meeting. Does that work? Yeah. Right. that's all the questions we have for you. Okay. Thank you for showing us.
Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Here.
It's a timely thing. Thank you very much.
You think you've been working on it for a year? Couple years. Oh,
more than that.
Really?
Yeah. Unfortunately, it's been going on for a while. It's just And I don't know 66.
Why did it take so long?
I think the design end of it. I think I think easements are probably the
polical intent. behind that is typically permits, but it's not this time. and running a close second would be utility coordination, but it's not. We got that worked out. So, it's just you know,
I mean, this is how typically how long things take to get. I mean, I've had some that that literally have gone for, you know, 15 years unfortunately just, you know, really DOT things which are to blame the DOT, but it's a different, you know, it's one
very regimented, very regimented, a lot of oversight. This program sort of leaves the buck with the chief elected official of the town and their designer. and DOT is more of an administrative review process like your federal local bridge program. We just had all kinds of we've done stuff with them. All kinds of engineering oversight. Well, rightfully so. Federal money comes with federal baggage and
but getting people organized.
No, based on I guess based on your account, I'm thinking, you know, six years ago, how bad was that bridge looking at six years ago?
20 years ago. Yeah, it was like that.
Yeah.
Way.
Are there others? Is there are there going to be more? Yeah.
I don't know. Nobody's
You don't have anything on your No,
Culbert on Hutchinson Road. We've got to have the road closed.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Well, there's not a lot of traffic out that
I remember looking down at somebody and having decision just just closing the road.
Yeah.
Really? I mean that's
they've been closed for years now
and no plan.
No plan. Yeah. next would be these enforcement actions, but not going to have an issue would be mission discussion for wetlands agent vacancy.
Who do you want to talk about? We're kind of in limbo here.
What I would talk about is that you should request to via the interview panel. So I would talking Wayne about that. he's trying to set up an interview panel.
So yeah, so at least we can screen someone to have the offer. I don't know if they have any applicants yet or if it's posted or Yeah. Is it is it like a 10 hour a week?
it's not even on the website.
Okay.
Right.
Who's who is steering the ship? So to say
since Jim here.
I think I think Johnowski contract
help out a little bit but we gota you make that happen. I don't know where that's needed. John's company. they can probably help us out a little bit.
Sure.
But, you know, Wayne's maybe been here a little over a year and he came with no zoning experience. He was a culture fell.
Oh, really? Just was willing to take it.
Yeah. didn't he's doing a very good job of it. He came up to speed really quick. He came up with the web side of it. Yeah, sure. So, the next regular meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, May 5th at 7 p.m.