Thank you, John. The first up is me to do the mayor before we start.
Thanks. Yeah. The first up is a roll call and seating of alternates. And I see all the commission members are here. and all the alternates are here. Thank you very much everybody for for showing up tonight. apparently we we did not confuse anybody because I see nobody is here. So I guess nobody was anticipating a public hearing on anything tonight. We we got that a little bit out of sync. but hopefully as we get down through things, we'll we'll set a public hearing for next month. So Wayne and I both apologize for the confusion on that. We think we've got got it all going right now. The any additions or changes to the agenda? So, we will move on to public speak. Catherine Hutchinson, you have anything for us tonight? I think you're the only member of the public who's with us.
Not not at this time. and [clears throat] I realize there'll be another public speak at the end of the meeting and
if I anything that I'll do it at that time. Thank you.
So, we'll move on to old business. First up is the application of Pitch Family Farm. And since the last meeting, based on the discussions at the meeting, Mr. Finch chose to withdraw his application and u he is allowed to do that. So that application is no longer valid. However, as part of the list of various changes to the planning and zoning regulations that the town is looking at, we will include essentially the same draft regulation that we were talking about last month on behalf of the town and when we get there, we'll talk about that. So, that's what's going on with the Agro Tour Zone. so next up is the various changes to the planning zoning zoning regulations and with that Wayne can you talk so two months ago well right now we're just looking at accepting that application correct are we discussing the particulars
we can we can discuss it we can Right.
and we can discuss it after the public hearing, but again that you know our role in proposing regulation on town behalf is to have them in a good set a good condition before we hold the public hearing so they're sort of the way we want them to be. Then we answer any questions from the public or take input from them and then we can deliberate on it. but we are allowed to talk about those tonight in a similar manner to what two months [clears throat] ago we talked about. I had a listing of changes that changed width to frontage for rear lots. added garages for more than two motor vehicles in the lake zone by special
permit. eliminated reference to new construction homes in a flood plane. deleted the minimum size house requirement because that's not legal in Connecticut. In section 11.2 changed width to frontage requirement. Change front yard setbacks for open space lots from 20 to 30 ft due to setback being measured from the center line of the road. change business adjacent to ARD front yard setback from 10 to 45 feet due to a setback being measured from the center line of the road and we would not want a reduced setback next to a residential lot. made all setback requirements for homes in the Andover Lake District the same, removing the setback requirements for seasonal homes as I no longer expect seasonal homes to be built and eliminate the column listing floor area as minimum floor area no longer legal in Connecticut. [clears throat] We were also discussed at that point changes to the kennel regulations so that we would require a special permit for even the smaller class A kennels in addition to class B and and C. So we had talked about those. I wasn't going to have John put those up on the screen tonight. We will do we will put it up on the screen when we have the public hearing to go through them a little more detail, but I thought we had had a good chance to talk about those at the time. And so the couple of changes that are
left are a change to section 16 with the gravel pit break, change to section 22, and then we'll talk about the agro tourism draft break. Dwayne, if you want to just run us through what the what the changes to section 16 are and and why.
All right. I had an inquiry some time ago now, probably six, eight weeks ago from an individual who was asking about removal of gravel and whatnot. Gravel from a site in conjunction with a building permit that had been issued. and it was a h it was hypothetical. You they were just probing as near as I could tell. I did a little research and I found that some towns like Andover did permit the removal of gravel, top soil, whatever rock from sites as part of a building permit. And that's proven to be a problem for those towns because individuals would obtain a property, go to site plan and get a building permit and essentially mine the property rather than and Franklin had that issue. Canton had that issue. So I looked at the
regulation and I thought it'd be a good idea to add a limit to the amount of material that can be removed. in conjunction with the building permit. And anything over that amount would require a special permit. And I I chose five I I talked with Eric. I threw it around I put a number in there, 500 yards, which sounds like a lot, but that's about 12 15, you know, triacal loads of material. I'd leave it up to the commission to come up with a you know the actual number.
Go ahead.
is that just for residential or is that
resound?
And then and is that what if they were going to build a building? How much like say a 10,000 foot building? Is that too much or not enough material to remove? Like I'm just saying like if they were going to do a regular
Well, they part of the special permit process. They would justify what they're going to do.
A special permit, not just a regular building permit. Correct. Okay. Correct.
All right. Thank you. Well, building permit, but a special permit from zoning to excavate or to to do that with a lot of material,
right?
I think like East Hampton's had two or three cases where people are removing material for years and
sneaking around the requirement to get a special permit for an excavation site.
So, we're trying to hit that off, [clears throat]
right? And so the number that's currently in here is a thousand
yards. Wayne said he's
Well, the the number in the current reg there are no numbers in the current regulations.
No, your current proposal, at least the one that I've got,
the one you have says a thousand. The one I have says 500, but I think we could the commission the commission can can back that around and
we were we were wanting to make sure that the number was big enough that somebody can go in and if they're digging a basement or something, they can get the the dirt out of there. not hit that wicket. We're not trying to make it
hard. We're just trying to
eliminate the possibility somebody gets creative and said, "Let me go run a a mining excavation here." and I'll put up a little house and and we'll just say it was all incidental to building the house. So, that's that's the burden on that one.
Okay. And then, section 22.0.5, 0.5. I had a email exchange with attorney Brance on that and that that section.
Can you put that up on the screen?
Oh, okay. John, you're going to have to give me control.
all right. Hang on.
I don't know.
Control permission.
Maybe
you should be able to.
Okay. All right. [clears throat]
Yeah. Okay.
Wayne, if if you need to, I can I can put it up. Just tell me which section to go to.
for some reason I can't get to Okay.
Why don't you go ahead and try it, John?
22. Yeah. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in.
Yeah.
All right. So, this is I think I saw a reference to 22.0.5. Is that right?
Yeah, correct. Well, on the website I I have a fully fleshed out proposal.
Oh, okay. I can here. Let's
under our applications there. 3Z
22. Oh, I got you. Okay. Can you guys see this? All right. Make it big.
There you go.
Yeah.
So, and and then this morning I discovered the need for some conforming changes. So, anything to do with section 22.0.5 came about because of a actual motor vehicle statute that required motor vehicle sales of motor vehicles to be run by the zoning board of appeals. So, if you scroll down to the bottom of that document, John, it'll it'll show the section 22 sections that
keep going all the way down the bottom.
Oh, okay. I see it. Yep.
Yeah. Keep going.
Okay. Oh, you mean the bottom bottom?
Bottom bottom. There we go. Right there. Yep. That's it.
So, that's the existing 22.0.5. It's tough to read because of the strike out. but the way the process was is if you're going to sell, if you're going to do any of those things, not only do you need a special permit from zoning, then it goes to ZBA for them to weigh in on,
which made no sense,
which which made no sense. The statute was changed. It was a state law. The statute was changed in 2023. attorney Bri says, "Get rid of it. It's not needed.
So, that's what I'm That's what I'm doing. If you scroll back up, I made I made right here. Stop. Stop. I I made some right. I added number four. This is in an industrial zone. I Well, first I changed auto to motor vehicle so that nobody said, "I'm selling trucks. and I changed motor ve vehicle gasoline sales to motor vehicle fuel. So, covers anything you can put in a vehicle to make it go. diesel, hydrogen, natural gas, propane, whatever.
electricity. Oh, maybe not for commercial application, I guess.
For commercial application. Yeah. Yes.
I added motor vehicle storage facilities which was in the ZVA regulation and then I reumbered everything. If you scroll down, and and then right down at the bottom I for for grammatical for style it's 17 and 18 not 17 period 18th period in list format. That's how myself is. so that's what I'm proposing for 22.0.5. All all of these things here need to come to the zoning commission for special permit. And under business, the only thing that is allowed in a in a business zone, which is which is up, John up, which is section 8.1, So, motor vehicle sales, motor vehicle repair, all those things technically aren't allowed in a business. So by the car by your current regulations, I didn't really mess with that except change gasoline to motor vehicle fuel. And
I think that makes sense. You know, we don't want we want the business zone to be businessy in the industrial zone can do some other things like car repairs, all that kind of stuff. But so so that's what I got.
Yep. So,
but this is all going to come up when you schedule this the special the
public hearing.
Any questions on the couple of things that Wayne talked about and and again because you know that we are not doing any deliberation here all the alternates can ask questions just as well as any of the regular members. So feel free to ask the way. Okay, hearing none. The last last item on the list is the agro tourism and and John if you can you'll put up and if you display that I know what's posted on the website doesn't have the the markup with it and your version did have that and so if we can you take a look at the markups and just go through what we changed from last time [sighs]
is so where would that be is it the the the draft this one the V4
up at the top I think
I'm sorry
clicking on that one you got there I think that's got the markups in it
yeah it looks like it okay
so is we were going through this and I guess just I am I'm pretty satisfied with with where we are on this and we'll talk about the the sound limits again in just a minute. but since it's now the town's regulation and not Mr. Fitch's regulation, you know, there's there's a couple of things that we could do. One of which is we could do what we've got displayed here now. Another option would be to not have any amplified sound outdoors. And another would be to not have non-aggricultural accessory uses. You know, there's I know there's a lot of farms around that they have
daytime events, you know. One that sounds like a fish farm is the fish farm over in Bolton. And they have you know a bunch of weekend activities that they do for the kids during the day and that kind of stuff. I can go with either of those options. What I don't want to have is everybody goes with this one because we started this out on Ryan Vitch's behalf and then everybody said, "Well, gee whiz, I'd rather had no outdoor amplified music at all." But but we never talked about that. And I think there's a couple of people in here that would like that. Couple of people in here that would like the outdoor music and and happy with that. I just don't want to get to the point where we get to a public hearing and and there's we have dissension among the commission here on what it is that we want to put forth. So, anybody have any comments on that thought before we continue looking at this one here? Patrick, this is, you know, this is the guy, you know. Yeah. [clears throat] And I and I appreciate that we we made a large
amount of work put in on this and the whole intent was to promote the local business that's already trying something new, you know. but you know those other farms have daytime activities and this is was for like more like for the adults and
yep
something at night. and it it is a tricky situation you know.
Yep.
and I thought that even though nine is ear you know earlier than the applicant wanted that I thought that should fly but now we're in a different position. And if you're if you're if you're suggesting no amplified music at all, I mean residences like kind of sound like the like right well if anybody can have a party in their yard until 10:00 at night.
So I get I get his point
and and we all I think we all agreed nobody wants sound ordinance because we got a lot of other stuff going on that people like not having sound ordinance in a way. would just fall back on the state as far as the seems like pretty rough guidelines there.
Yep.
So,
we're never going to make everybody happy and we we also have to keep in mind protect people's property values and and why they moved to this town. So, I mean any anybody other thoughts on that? I mean, and we, you know, we did have somebody that monitored the town zone gazebo and we had 80 dB across the street. So, I mean, that's pretty loud across the street. It is
at 9:00 at night, you know, and then there's the whole breaking down and unloading and people getting in their cars and I get that part of it, too.
Yeah.
So, I've been to know several of the town
concert sitting here and certainly breaking down is not a noisy evolution. It's not going to
Yeah, they usually depends how big if you got a carnival going might be a different different thing.
Yeah. And we really never addressed the, you know, number of people that can show up. We just said, well, if whoever's applying has to say what the how many people they expect and we we all knew that what was going on now is is a smaller number of people. And that was pretty tolerable for most people in my opinion.
Yep. I
but you know, right? though I'm I'm still for promoting the aggra tourism and still have allowing some amplified sound. It is tough to regulate and I don't know if we have the resources to monitor that and stay on top of oh well is it too loud? Is he not too loud or we could we could do I know I think you mentioned like a trial basis for a year and if it works out great and if not then can it right? So, I'm on board with that one for sure. And as as as all the work we did up till now, it still promotes some, you know, it's a it's pretty good compromise. Maybe not everybody's happy, but
So, you I said I wanted to, you know, that's why I wanted the the month to think about all this stuff. And there was a couple of things that
I thought of along that line. And and one is, you know, when the town holds a concert, they do maybe two or three a year.
Yeah.
And it's open by 9:00. Might be a little loud. Kind of like the beach. Beach only did one this year. But
but that's different. We have to not we have to look at the regulation. Not from what Ryan Fitch might do, but if you were to take it to the extreme of what our regulation allows, I can just envision somebody buying Yman Street Barn over on Lake Road in the Lake District, have big parties and party, you know, to the max that we allow on this thing and that would get old for the neighbors, you know, really quick. And I think it was Katherine Hutchinson that pointed out how many different, you know, places we've got. so and again I said I'm okay on this. You know, I kind of I want to support the agro tourism too. I just think agro tourism should have more of an agro relation than I tried to to think what would we expect if somebody were coming up to set up an outdoor concert venue in town.
I don't think that's what the people of Andover are looking for. I went back and looked pretty hard through the plan of conservation and development. It's, you know, we we're looking for the tranquility and that kind of thing. So, so it is it is a tough call [clears throat] and all we can do is is our best, but I I wanted to make sure we had time for conversation on that before we just put it out. And then if everybody said, "Well, I always thought that was a pretty dumb idea. Why do we do that?" Anyhow, don't want to hear about that after I want to hear about that now. So, anybody else have thoughts on that?
Like the idea of having a trial of one year to see how it works with the current guidelines on amplified sound. I sort of like that idea. And and again, we have the right as the commission to regulate how many events somebody's happening. Somebody's happened so that, you know, we don't get too far out of bounds. And we do have the the opportunity to limit, you know, a lot of different things based on the location. So,
right,
there's no oneizefits-all. That's the beauty of the special permit. Anybody else have anything they'd like to say about that one tonight?
I'm good with the amplif the 9:00 10:00 is a little too late you think or I mean
I think I'm just probably good in you know June or July like the the longest days.
I personally think 9:00 is plenty late. I'd be happy with, you know, there's a lot of towns that do their concerts. Well, on Thursday night, they go 6:00 to 8.
I I was going to say, when the rec commission does concerts at the gazebo, they're usually 7 to 9. if it's in the fall, we might do 5 to 7 or 6 to 8, but in the summer, we've we've done 9:00. and I I would like to see this stay with, you know, a limit on the hours.
Then,
I think a lot of older people go to bed by 9. I mean,
I I think they do. You know, if we had, if 10:00 were okay in the summer, we wouldn't have had anybody speaking against it. And and I was surprised there were several people that were, you know, and and one of the things that I'll do different if anybody shows up at a public hearing is ask what do you think an appropriate time is? So we get that input from the public. But when the when the concerts were going to 10:00, you know, a lot of people said we're concerned about the noise. And going back and think about I didn't know what that meant exactly, but I took it to mean it's too loud and too late. Okay. So, we'll you know if we and I think Patrick you said the the state level was 70 dB. yeah, it changed from zone to zone like from commercial to the residential like if they were a butters and there was different limits and I think I still but
okay
and then it it depended like next to an industrial or commercial zone it was louder than the residential zone. So, and this is one of those cases where it it's in a mixed use zone and it should be it should be a deciding factor a little bit, you know, like he could decide that he wanted to put industrial there and then he could be loud all day and
not loud loud all night, but it could be producing noise all night, too. And you know, not to say that's right, but it is currently it's being used as a farm and you know, these vets, but
and and business stores, but
you know, I'm trying to keep that in mind, too. So,
yeah.
You you also have to think of the traffic. You know, if people are wrapping up at 9 versus 10, you have people hanging out after in and out of their cars or or whatnot. So I think nine is late enough.
Okay. Yeah. [clears throat]
Another thing is Route 6 is pretty noisy all day. So people are looking forward
people looking forward to winding down, you know, quieter. So to them it's taken away from that
quiet time, you know, speed.
I came to Andover for quiet time.
Yeah.
To somebody else's music. And and I'm not saying whether music's good, bad, or whatever. Yeah. If it's not your music, that's surely good music. So, and I do think it's different with the gazebo because we know it's only going to be a couple times a year. I think the town has the ability to, well, this is an agro tourism rate. what the gazebo's doing. Certainly not falling under that, but we have the we could work that out if that got to be problematic. But I'm not aware of anybody complaining about the concerts ending at 8 or 9:00 that we've been doing here.
Well, and I think I live next to the beach for a whole year, right next to
as close as you could get to it.
I was right next door. So, I remember having that band over there and they were done by six o'clock or something like that. So, it was it wasn't that bad. That was during the daytime with the pillar.
Okay. So, that was a big thing. John, if you could go back to displaying that.
Sure. so do actually I have Wayne sent me the sort of the clean version. Do you want me to bring that one up as opposed to the markup?
You'd like to show you know what we did change last time refresh themselves.
All right. Hang on. Yeah, I don't think we changed anything on the first page.
no.
Coming down to the second page. We did you have go to go to that paragraph I up there. You just above the amplified sound thing. So, we can show everybody how we we made it that simpler. events that don't include amplified sound again before 9 or finish after 10. so so that made sense to me. Next paragraph I I was you know the thing I like about the background level on my noise meter is I know how to go out and measure that to the state limits. we need to know what this we need to be smart on that so we're not just saying do an applicant
show us how you're complying with the state limits because we don't understand how it works you know we're here to help an applicant but I think that that would be fairly reasonable wrapping up by 9:00 I think I think it's the lateness more than the noise level. But hopefully we'll get some feedback on that you go public hearing. So I'm good to go with the way paragraph hotel is up there right now. I think most folks are at you had 9:00 cut off time on Friday and Saturday and 8:00 on the rest of the days. I'm good with that. So, and it sounds like most people were okay with that. Not perfect, but probably does good. down on the site plan paragraph, we we added the words including setup and take down just so we we get a chance to make sure we're not taking down the carnival hole at 3 in the morning and
making a bunch of noise out there doing that. in the very last comment that I had that didn't get in there because I didn't catch it till I reading it again. The last paragraph K, health district approval, I'm sorry, John. Go to last paragraph on the proceeding page shall provide a copy of the approval to the width. So I think we just eliminate to the and it goes to with the permit application.
Okay.
We can just eliminate to the
Yeah, I it's it's a PDF. Well, I can I can like physically mark it off like this. I
'll let you get that later on then. Yeah.
Okay. Very good. and then, I don't know if the $50 annual renewal fee is the right number or not, but it can be there for the, first go around. And, you know, I think our town permit fees and that are are too low. I think we need to jack them up a little bit.
Change it then. [clears throat]
75 at least.
I think I don't know that we can change them. I think that's a board of selectment approval thing,
but we'll figure that out between now and next month when we bring it to you know public hearing. Any other comments on the agro tourism regulation? I guess John, I'll ask a question. Sometimes I see agro tourism spelled with an I and sometimes with an O.
Yeah, I'm the one that spells it with an I.
Okay.
Yeah, I would tend to spend it with spell it with an I also because it's egg grit culture, not egg roll culture.
Okay, very good.
Happy to leave it that way. Just you know someplace else I saw a ro tourism might have been in the POCP chapter or something. I don't know. Oh dear. That's that's a that's a much more aggressive form of agriculture.
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So, if if
what you say about the $50 fee,
I think it should be higher.
Okay.
Yes. [clears throat]
And someone said 75.
Oh, I go 100 if it's this is a business. You know, the guys out here trying to make money. We then do we get
should be at least as much as is the deposit for the keg tap, right?
Used to be 75 like two or 300.
Yeah.
50 sounds a little low to me. so that's that is all those are all of the regulation changes that I was looking at doing right now. And so, I would make a motion that we schedule a public hearing to address all of those regulation changes at our November prior to our regular November meeting on November 18th. I'll second that, okay, thanks, Scott. Then, I'll call for vote in I
Scott,
Patrick. Hi,
Leanne.
Hi.
I vote I as well. Motion to hold public hearing passes 5 0.
The next up is the plan of conservation and development. Okay. So over the if I if I I assume that's a open-ended intro intro opportunity to speak Chad.
Yes. And and I think you know going back to our original
schedule that had October finalized draft and post notice. So I think you know we should be about finalized with the draft here. I don't know if you've gotten any comments at all. I'll go through three big picture thoughts I had looking through all that stuff again. But at our November meeting, it says hope and discussion public information and I don't know what's the difference between that and the public hearing.
well the public hearing we technically need to give everyone 65 days. the clerk, the region, the selectman, and the state 65 days before the hearing opens.
so this could it would just be a general information session to you know, it's it's not sort of the formal hearing, but you know, you could you could let folks know that it's it's an opportunity to ask questions or or you know, sort of before the official before the official receipt and and scheduling of the hearing. It's just another opportunity to talk about it under a slightly different name.
Okay. So, might might not be a long topic next November. We're really giving everybody their two months to do whatever the rest of the world wants to do. So, do we need to do we need to schedule what do we need to do tonight so that we keep it on track, John?
Yeah. Well, so so yeah, thus far, Jed, the the only additional comments that we got were your handwritten notes that you handed me off last week, I believe. and yeah no so I think you know if if the if the planning zoning commission is is comfortable with what they have received what we could do is you know send out a we haven't sent everything out as a single unit and and you know we can compile everything to a single plan with a a cover sheet and that sort of thing. again, not not the final final layout, which will have lots of photos and and you know, be kind of laid out a little bit more readably. but you know, essentially the the the the chapters are in place, the substance is
in place, the recommendations are there. So, you know, if if you are comfortable as a commission that the the documents that we've sent over the past month in, you know, in three or four chunks represents the the draft that you want to present formally to the town. you can you can you know pick a date at least 65 days from now and and we can schedule our hearing and we'll and then we'll we'll basically Janal and I will we'll assemble the sort of the final hearing document and forward that out to the to the entities that we need to send it to. So, if we were to do our planning and zoning meeting would be on December 16th,
which is not quite 65 days.
Not quite 65 days.
Yeah. So,
you might be looking into early January for the January meeting,
but I guess we probably won't do it. So, so should we hold So, should we plan on a public hearing in January after the first of the year because that's the that gives us our 65 days. Yeah, I mean that so that would be the January 20th,
right? Yeah, I think that's perfectly reasonable and and yeah, then we'll what we'll do is we'll we'll assemble it and and send it around to the commission and to all the you know to the OPM to the region and to the the selectman
d we'll give them plenty of time recognizing
the the holiday season coming up and how that impacts a lot of things happening but okay so January 20th will be the the public hearing on there. I had a couple of thoughts. You know, I mentioned I didn't really care for the way that the the whole big chart of action items,
you know, I was looking for the heavy hitters up front. I went back and I see why it is the way it is. all those soft actions came out of the introductory chapter and so the introductory chapters first that means all those actions got on the list first u and we didn't get to the heavyhitting stuff which comes after that but so I think it's it's the way that it should be and that's just the way it is and so I'm happy with that listing the way that is there the If there was going back and thinking then and again I'm looking for commission discussion here. If there was one thing that I would probably eliminate from the POC and it's in the complete streets chapter, it's the pushing forward for roundabouts. You know, I look at the intersection of Lakeside Drive and Lake Road and you know, rarely are there two vehicles at once in that area. And I look at the the small area there. I I don't know if that's what Andover needs to be working on right now, putting in roundabouts. What's everybody else think?
Yeah. Six.
Okay. Got one thumbs down. Yeah. I I know that the one of the spots was Hendy and Long Hill Road. There is a lot of traffic going through there and it's often like who goes next kind of thing. So, it might make sense there.
Okay. Maybe the problem there is that the grapes are all bad. Terrible grapes in there.
Yeah. Right.
There's like a 10 foot drop. Yeah. Hard to put a roundabout on a hill.
They put a roundabout in there. Side hill like that.
That's big construction.
Yes. That's supposed to be long hill.
Yeah. Sorry. Just noticed that myself. Yeah. But so this is this is the only this is the only real reference to roundabouts in the in the chapter is is consider. And you know to to be honest with you it's it's you know this is classic POCD vague wording. so it's consider roundabouts. which is actually you know kind of what you're doing right now. so you have already fulfilled this goal but yeah it it's this this doesn't say anything as strong as you know seek implementation of or seek funding but it's just consider it's really yeah
you remember back when we had the survey of the citizens.
Yes sir. And there were many probably driven by one person in particular, you know, people commenting on not in favor of roundabouts. I didn't see you any surveys, but I saw one that said that we should consider roundabouts in
Yeah. Well, yeah. So if if we as a commission aren't keen on the idea and we've already considered them and thinking maybe it doesn't make sense, I just assume get it out of there so we don't confuse everybody else with what are we going to be doing with this? you know, we've got
Yeah.
bigger fish to fry than roundabouts, which I don't think we got money or room.
Yeah. Well, the only so the only the only downside of taking that out is is should you you know some some future version of this commission or the board of selectman or the town manager and and CROG decide that that is actually the right solution. having a reference to it in the plan is useful for funding purposes. But but again, if if you know this is this is your plan. If you're confident that this is not an issue that you want to tackle, fine. We can we can certainly take it out.
I don't see a reason why honestly why you wouldn't keep it in there anyways, but I don't know how much it's going to put a roundabout on
with air cleaning. You can bet there's nobody be pushed on a
rout and merit valance spell.
So I guess I would propose that we
liminate the reference to roundabouts.
I'll leave in moving public works over to the transfer station,
but I think that's as much that's as quiet as this guy too. Patrick's not listening to me.
I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize.
I'm trying to make fun of you, Patrick.
[laughter]
public works going over there are making fun of you and you don't need to listen.
I was asking for a ramp there so that if they go too fast they'll just launch and I can watch them while I'm sitting my stop sign.
Yeah. Okay. Very
sorry.
Did you hear that? I Oh, are we getting rid of it?
Getting rid of brands.
Okay, then it doesn't matter. Yeah.
[clears throat] We could I mean also Jed we could also just if you want to rephrase if we want to continue a focus on these problematic intersections or conflict points we could just rephrase this to you know actively seek you know reasonable traffic calming or or intersection improvements or something like that.
I'm okay with that. I just
Okay. Sure.
Think roundabouts you know I like roundabouts where there's a need for a roundabout where there's heavy traffic. We just I don't see it. And
well, Lake Road is pretty heavy, but
here's no room.
There's no room. Yeah. No, that would You're right.
All right. And if you in item four, if you didn't hear
Merit is is Merit Valley Road.
Merit. V. Yeah.
Merit Valley Road.
M E R. Yeah.
M E R I T R T L.
Yep. Okay. that was one issue. The next issue that I tried to you come up with in my mind what are the you know three heavy hitters for me that I was looking at getting here. And certainly with with Eric leaving I think it is imperative that we keep the town planner you know and the action item in there right now is to expand John's role to encompass economic development. somebody could build the case that oh BC is done now we don't need to have this here.
That's what happened last time kind of.
Yeah. And and then it's usually dependent on how much money the board of selectman is willing to even think about setting the board of finance to do I guess that is going to be responsible for affordable law.
Okay. Yeah. So my thought is John we beef up the words about the town planner there. I would like So, one of the things that I'm not doing as well as I would always hope to is handling the admin associated with all these regulation changes. And I've always, you wanted to keep a tight brain on who has that because I didn't want I wanted to know what was going on with them and that sort of thing. But I think I don't know if that's something that you could take on in the town planning role once we get the POC behind us. but it would certainly make the role of the planning and zoning chair
better if you know we didn't have a volunteer trying to manage the
Oh, yeah. The like the official version of the regs and all the all the editor. Oh, of course. Of course.
Okay. You got it. Put that in there as something you need to pick up.
Okay.
And then
let me let me just see if that's the right place to put it. I'm sorry. I'm I'm going to
but I think that's that's my number one action item is to make sure that we keep you and we expand your role, not diminish.
Well, let me let me do the students here and something like that.
Yeah.
Okay. because we've got a bunch of you know there's a bunch of regulation changes that are going to come out of this and that's going to be you know a fairly completion of the PCD is only getting us to the starting line taking off on a bunch of stuff
right and so we need to to share that and Ann and Scott with you know, the board of selectman when we talk about that and I imagine that I will have to go and I would hope that Elaine would again with me. you know, when we first brought John on, Elaine and I both presented some information to the board of finance and the board of selectment and but I'm here to tell you there's a lot of work being done by zoning chair and it it would behoove us to provide a little assistance there. The other two two you the next high priority in my mind was to finish the work that we started on that zoning now. You know, we've spent a lot of effort trying to figure out where we stand now with the with the zoning now. And we've got you know, we heard Hank talking about we did this last time and then we got the POCD done and then we dropped the ball and didn't do anything with it. and
he'd really like to sit down with economic development, planning, zoning, conservation, and we figure out, you know, where where the best use of of the dental property is. And so I think bringing that map to fruition is a a high priority item. And if I may to add to that like a yes and we really need to nail down the spots that the you know are the conservation commission would advise against this development you know that's that's our biggest hurdle as far as I
can see industrial we're
well you know we we're still a mishmash of stuff right now and we haven't really clearly defined it enough to say this is great here and this is great there and Yeah.
Well, so yeah, I I mean that's that's actually what if if the town that that might be like the single missing component of this proposed plan of conservation and development
as it stands right now is and I was just going to ask Janal about this. we can put together a future land use map which you know will will attempt to to to parse those those areas of conservation and those areas of development. I think the trick being most of the Route Six corridor is we're going to have to consider it a a balanced growth area or something like that, you know. but yeah, we that's something that we haven't shown you visually yet is is you know sort of an attempted future land use map.
But I was I was surprised how much time we've spent working on that map already and we haven't even gotten it to the point where we could call it our official zoning map because it's still not completely accurate.
So that's a that's a big one. Then the last one is you know the affordable housing thing and I think it should focus on the 55 plus back in the day we used to have starter homes. We don't build starter homes anymore. That that wasn't the affordable housing plan. but not having you know Eric was always a strong component of you know what planning and zoning was trying to do and I'm not sure how you the board of selectmen are going to be receptive to you know finding that person who is going to get fired up take that ball and run with it And I think to make any of it happen, we're going to have to give up some town property to sweeten the pot to get that guy over here. I think, you know, we've got significant drawbacks by not having public water, public sewer, and that kind of stuff, but we can change our rigs to make it a little more viable. But I do think, you know, for the start,
if we were to get a 55 plus community in here, because we do have an aging population in that. So,
how can we get this going then?
How do we get this going?
yeah,
first we have to get
four hours.
More hours for John. maybe first thing we have to do is we have to go to the board of selectman and see whether or not they're in favor of it. And so my my thought is the board of selectment has to buy in on this plan and we get their head nod. Yep. We're we're in agreement with that when when we sell them on on this plan here.
So I'm I'm highlighting Jed there. So already in the plan is a couple of action items. So we We talked about actively reszoning the the targeted properties that are listed in the affordable housing plan.
that that allows for some incentive housing as of right and then after that that proactive resoning to then you know look look with the well we recommend created an affordable housing committee but also planning and zoning and the town to work with developers who would be interested in assisting that process. So that that it's kind of you know some of those steps are laid out there and yeah sorry
happy with the steps I just you know when
I started trying to you know get in my mind what if somebody said what are your three top things okay well you know those might not be the best ones but at least they're they're a start and and we need and we need the board to select then to green light that they feel, you know, that we'd have to sell the citizens of the doubt to give that property away to a developer. So, there's there's some steps there, but that's probably the the hardest one of the bunch to to get, but I think that probably the biggest, issue out there for us right this minute, too. Maybe in our next meeting, we should come up with a plan, all of us, how to brings us forward to voters selecting so they understand it.
Yep. Okay. Yes. because that it is going to take that and I don't know if everybody's if you board selectman are all on favor in favor of that or not quite honestly but I'm hoping that two of you plan zoning you know I haven't heard anything I haven't heard either of you two say anything unfort towards that. So I think you know I'm assuming that you're okay with proceeding down that path.
I am. I'd like to see it happen.
And we we in economic development we've also discussed hiring of one of the developers who talked about we've been in contact with a few of them and that we would need to hire them to spend the time on it. You know it's not like they're going to consult and advise us for free. unless it's like their property and they're doing all the permits and all the you know but that that's available also but that would be a slight expenditure on some hours for that assistance also.
Okay. Yeah, we could be part of the
want to bring it up so we don't
is already doing this. So
they got land.
Yeah, they have they gave them land I guess.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's affordable housing. We were talking
Yeah. So they they also have the advantage of being right on sewer and water lines right there.
And also
it's not property. Yep. I got you.
Okay. But those were my three big hitters. I don't know if anybody's got any other thoughts on things that you know you think are key on this thing that when we we hold our public hearing and we're briefing the public on this thing.
so the next time we get together, John, you should have for us the new state statutes and how they're pushing us to do the affordable housing.
Yeah. it's possible that the the the legislature will hold a special session in advance of your November meeting. we'll see. I mean, you know, this was supposed to be a September session and then it was supposed to be an October session and then now it's a November session. So,
you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't place any heavy bets on it, but it's Yeah, it's possible we could we could have some different guidelines next month.
Question for you. we're we're not lobbying for any of this stuff, right, as a town?
not as far as I know not directly. you know the town is part of both CCM which is the Connecticut Conference of Municipalities and COST which is the Council of Small Towns. you know th those two municipal organizations lobby on behalf of municipalities. But I I don't believe that I and yeah, I don't believe that Eric or any of the selectmen have directly submitted any any testimony.
No, that that shouldn't be
Yeah.
No.
but you would think that there's got to be grant money or something out there to do what Patrick was talking about. you know that there is.
Yeah. It should be easy to get a hold of them. They should be they should be coming to us saying what can we do to help you go down this
but you also have to be careful with the cause with their grand so we really have to understand
what that is right like I said
55 and over is great I think the town needs it affordable housing I don't think we need it I don't think the town needs it here I'm not I'm not for it for sure and that the state cannot push us to do it it's not a law. The law only that we need to loosen up some of the things if we provide a plan to invite, you know, developers just makes it easy for them a little bit, but there's no law saying we have to have affordable housing.
It's actually not the case. Andreas, both both 8-2, 8-23 and the Fair Housing Act federal state that the town has to make provision for affordable housing. They have to make provisions to loosen up the laws. There's no law saying that we have to have affordable housing plan in place to to for for developers to come and do it.
If you don't invite
what
section section 8-30J does say that the the town needs to have
to it. There's no law saying that we have to have affordable housing.
Anyway,
perhaps you're not looking in the right place. I'll send you links. has sent it to me. I'll look at it with her.
So, there was a law that we had to come up with in affordable housing play.
That's called 830J. That's a law.
Law of Where's
It's a It's a stat. It's a state statute, which is a law.
830J.
830Js. I don't All right. just send it to me because we looked into it and there's we didn't find any law by the state that says you guys have to have a plan or or you have to have a for there's there's a law saying a statute saying that you have to if you have a plan then you can loosen up some of the regulations like with parking and so on and so forth but other than that if you want to send me some supporting documents and you know I like to look at it But I think there's a percentage of
there. Yeah, that's I I don't want to get into it
here right now because I couldn't I certainly was thinking that we had to come up with a plan. Her plan was to tell the state how we're getting to our 10%. I
we Okay, I I'll I'm going to do more research. I'm pretty sure who knows how to have a plan.
Okay. Well, then I'll get a plan.
But, you know, there is that, you know, there is no law that says we have to have a a portable living affordable housing plan.
I'll put it I'll put it on the screen right now. Andre, John, send it to me on the email. I don't want to dis I don't want to waste the time, but I'd like to understand and look at it and look at all the facts and my wife and I will look into it. She's a lawyer.
She knows what she's doing. So if if we're doing a public hearing in January,
I would think that before we have a public hearing, we would run through what we're going to say at public hearing with the commissioner and John, would that be something we maybe do at the December meeting or is that to I'm sorry to have a a December member have have a presentation just to the commission or the commission and board of selectman or how do you
well I don't know and I guess part of the plan that Scott was talking about maybe you and I John are going to have to sit down and figure out you know who who should sit down and come up with what this plan ought to be so we've got a starting point for discussion amongst the commission here.
I maybe maybe I'm getting confused about how you're using plan. Do do you mean how we how we
like what's our what's our plan of attack to implement this stuff
or what's what's the the plan the the
to improve the plan to improve our POCC? Yeah,
we were just talking about we need to have a strategy on what we're going to tell selectman
so that we can get them on board.
And and that could be so we've got, you know, we've got a November meeting which is open discussion, public information. We got the December meeting. We'll have a public hearing in January now. So there's there's got to be some steps that get us to the point where we're in the public hearing. The board has selectively said, "No, we're not doing that." I want to avoid that part.
And it's 55 and old what you're talking about. So I you know yeah there's there's a couple of ways we can well yeah it's it's again Jed I'm not sure what if you're talking about the the plan to present the plan or
yeah no the whole thing I you know I like the Stephen CVY book seven habits You know, and the last one is begin with the end in mind. So on January 20th, I'd like everybody to say, "Yep, that's a good plan." Yep. Board of Selecmen are all in favor of providing either of these two town properties to sweeten the pot to make some of that happen. and but it's going to take a little work to get there. And and we need to know we you know we've got we've got the document written and we had a little
plan to get the document written and it was good plan we executed the plan. Now we got to get how do we get approval of the plan which if unless we we look at that a little bit it might not go as smoothly as we'd like it to unless we are proactive and
so I would I would
the board of select
I would I would defer to you guys on the right approach to that you know ideally the you know the the public hearing, the January public hearing is the opportunity for everyone to have their have their say alto together about the plan. That said, we give we give the the selectmen as as as well as the state and the region, you know, two months essentially to review the draft. if you would like if it makes sense to go to them in in December to the board of selectman meeting and do a little bit of a song and dance to talk about what the what the plan is and and to you know do some presentation on its recommendations and and suggest that if they have you know comments and would like to participate in the in the big process it's you know January 20th but you know do a little introductory presentation to the selectman that's certainly that's certainly something we do
tells to me like what you're asking for is to get that feedback
before the January meeting.
Yeah.
I just I don't want to get you to bring the public in here and the board of selectman you know we are surprised that they're not in favor of the direction we were marching off to go. That shouldn't be the first time that that they are exposed to this thing. Yeah. I well I was here for the last time and the that we submitted the plan of conservation development. So what happened last time and how I understand how the process works is all this work that all the commissions did that are appointed and volunteer and the planning and zoning commission which is elected and all the people that help them and the our planner everybody involved what came up with this plan and it and sometimes it's not there's parts that people don't like and but we've taken the surveys and so up to this point we have the draft Once the draft is complete and the planning and zoning
votes, gay or nay, this is our plan to submit, then it the board of selectment, as far as to my understanding, it's their job as elected officials to try and follow this plan. And like like the way the way that John has had these action items, it's up to their discretion as they as they are elected officials to represent the whole town as our board of governors, right? to implement as they see fit within the means and possibilities of this time. So it's kind of like a multi-step process. So that at this point now we have the draft pretty close and then if you want to submit it to them for review that's great. But really what we vote on is that that's the that's the plan. Now we look back at
the last plan of conservation development. There was a lot of conservation and almost no development. Right? So that's why I I was glad to get back on EVC to help push forward the things that people really want to see in our town. Not focus on that. and we think we did a pretty good job on trying to address that stuff. But the stuff we don't really care for or don't think is going to fit in our town, we did not focus on that. So, at this point, that's the last time it happened that the the public meeting is just to inform of everybody of what their volunteers and elected officials have come up with. This is the plan. We're going to do the best we can with it. And then it's up to the board of selectment or account manager to implement that as they see fit and within the means of the town. So I know some of these action items are really really expensive and that's why John prioritize them on these are the
small potatoes and these are the big ideas right and then we'll see what happens. that's kind of like
okay so the board is lucky and don't approve it.
I for my knowledge
no it's it's exclusively the domain of the planning commission.
Correct.
Okay.
Yeah. So, we don't we don't need their votes except in so far as you've got members of the board of selectman on your commission, but yeah, it's you don't need the board of selectman votes.
Okay. Yeah. So, we're we're really close to the increase.
Yep. That is yeah that's a requirement if
and that's and that's well yeah it's it's also something that we can we can discuss that it's really a matter of prioritizing stuff you know to be done within available allocations but yeah no if there if there are special projects you need us to design something that's different but you know as long as we're taking things sort of step by step you know writing some grants working on some regulations working with developers it's stuff that we can do within within the scope of our ongoing service to the town.
Correct. Okay. So before the next meeting, John, you and I will get together so that I have a better understanding.
Of course,
so I can help facilitate the process as opposed to hindering.
You're not.
Any other
comments on PCD while we're here?
I have I have a question. Oops. I think I hear somebody, but it's coming through very softly.
Oh, is that any better?
There we go. Yeah.
Yep.
Okay. I think a little while ago, I'm not sure what the heading of the document was. I think there were a couple of items or or maybe one action items with two items under it that talked about making Island Street and Cider Mill Road one-way streets. And I'm sure we're going to revisit all this again. I was just wondering right now if that was prompted by something or it was just you know someone's opinion that it might be you know if there's been incidents at either you know either one or both places.
Yeah. So yeah that's in the that's in the complete streets chapter. I'll put it up on the screen. Cider Mill I I I can't speak to Island Street on what the impetus of that was but Cider Mill was proposed as part of that's right here. as part of the multi- the the multimodal path between town hall campus and Route Six and the and the Hop River Trail. that Cider Mill Road being, you know, extremely low traffic. I think there's probably four or five houses on it.
and it being you know it would it like using Cider Mill as essentially a one-way shared street for you know vehicles, cars and bicycles would allow the town and and people to finish that path from the town hall to the Hop River Trail safely and relatively inexpensively without you know having a major disruption on you know traffic safety and that sort of thing. So it it was sort of part of that connectivity plan.
A bike path.
Yeah. That so instead of instead of doing a separate you know 12 foot or 10 foot wide paved pathway, you would essentially use use the existing width of Cider Mill Road, you know, to have a one-way car lane and a and then a a a a bike pedestrian lane as well.
Okay. Thanks. I couldn't speak to Island Street. I'm not I I don't know the details of that.
Streets to one way. I you know, as you say, there's maybe four cars a day that drive on Ciderville Road. I would think the chance of a bike, but seeing one is a ride down there.
And we could consider changing the speed limit to like 10 miles an hour on that road. It's so short.
Stuff like that. you know,
there there are other there are other ways of of you know, and and that we can do stuff with pavement markings and and other things to to you know, avoid going fully one way, but you know, it's it's re it's sort of identified as a a key connecting link in in the multimodal, you know, travel chain if I'm not jargony.
Anything else? Lean
is what Any Did you have any other comments? That was a good one.
No, thanks.
Okay. Anybody else on the BOC? Okay. Going to move on to new business, which I think we have none. Next up is correspondence. Wayne, anything on that? I have nothing on the field.
Okay, we're going to move on to commission discussion. And Wayne sent out a little thing from our bylaws talking about election of officers, which could happen as early as next meeting. We have the election in early November. We changed the bylaws to say at which time officers will be elected. Let's say they're following the election and seating of members. So, we have to get the those members who are elected sworn in and then we can hold elections and it sounds like all of the officers need to be here for us to have that election. So that would be there. And I I guess I can go on record as saying that I would I am hoping that somebody else is going to step up and say, "Woo, I'd like to run the planning and zoning commission for a while. So think about that for the next month or two because I've had my fund, had my time, time for
somebody else maybe. run with that purge for a little bit.
No, the just for my benefit after the election and the results are out then any changes to the com to the commission, those people have to be sworn in and then they become members.
Yeah. at that point and they if that happens before the November meeting,
we can hold election at the November meeting.
If it doesn't, you know, there could be a runoff and that takes a little while sometimes. We've seen,
right, but they would have to be sworn in
conflict. Was it four votes between Oh, was it I can't remember now. I know you were talking.
Yeah. yeah,
town clerk would have would have to swear them in and you know the minority representation if those issues pop up would have to be before that meeting.
We'll be we'll be addressing that at the November meeting. Any other comments for commission discussion at this point? And I guess the last thing I'll talk about there, you know, and I was kind of hoping Eric would show up here tonight, but I certainly am going to miss Eric's support doing all the planning, the zoning stuff, but I think he he supported all the the commissions just like he did here, but he's certainly been a mentor to me and and was always very supportive of what planning and zoning wanted to do. And I'm going to miss that guy. So
me too.
Yeah. Administrative report zoning agent the way
not too much of I met with a architect that's working on what is now 280 Route 6 which is that lot between Wales Road and Shotty Mill. I think I told you guys about that last time that they were in yesterday. with a preliminary site plan for me to look over and actually building a house.
We're building a residence there. Yes. That that was a six lot San Martino subdivision that was approved in a business zone in 1994. And that's the last lot of that six lot subdivision. So, u the questions arose about the common drive that's there. there's two lots that are served by a common drive and this lot connects to the apron of that common drive where it's on Route Six. And the there was questions about, you know, can we can we move our driveway? And basically my answer to that was you'd have to you'd have to get the planning zoning commission to
he wants to move it off the common driveway and on to route six or
No, he wants to move it from the apron that's there up the driveway. So it's to the common driveway at a perpendicular angle part of the road which kind of makes sense but but that's but that's not what was approved in 1994. Although our
regulations
o the my answer to to them was that they can come to the commission and request a change to that subdivision then and they would have to get a new a new easement by them because there would be three three residences served by that common drive. If if they do that, which the commission has to wave the two in the subdivision regulations,
it can wave it.
We can't wave it.
actually, there is a section of subdivision that says you can in the subdivision regulations.
Yeah, but it's not. Well, I'll I'll look. I thought the the driveway requirement was in our zoning rights. there's driveway requirements in the zoning rigs. There's driveways in the subdivision rigs.
Okay. Isn't it just easier just to bring it out of the apron?
That's what [snorts] I've told these guys that it would be very difficult to accomplish what they want to accomplish if they could even if it could happen. Yeah.
And then there was another question about common drives and this is sounds like it's come going to come before the commission maybe in November. spoke with the engineer Mark is it Mark Reynolds? Yeah, Mark Reynolds who's working on an open space subdivision in town and at an undisclosed location. U but the question was about common drives in an open space subdivision. I told him to bring the bring bring his ideas to the commission and for an in informal.
So this would be an informal presentation.
For an informal presentation.
Okay. Y
what's Wayne? What's our current policy regarding shared drives?
currently, like I said, in it's a a shared drive can service two residences.
Uhhuh. Okay.
Except like I said, there's a there is a section in the subdivision regulations where that can be waved for a subdivision, a proposed subdivision.
So, you mean so it could be it could serve more than two? You mean?
Yes. Okay.
Yes.
Okay.
Section I have it right here in the subdivision subdivision regulation 7.7 number 10. And the very first paragraph in regulations subdivision regulation 7.7. The very last line of the opening statement says the commission can wave any of any of those items in seven.
Right. There's a yeah there's a blanket waiver provision that that subdivision regulations are allowed to have.
so okay. Now otherwise common drives u are for two two residences. There is words in the storm water section about common driveways for three or more have to have a storm water storm water management plan.
I think three or more you're talking about private road.
No the words common drive. A common drive y
services. I have to look
more than two dwellings. That's what it says.
No, the Well, the the the regulation at the end there says common drives may be allowed provided the driveway serves no more than two dwellings.
Right. Right.
So that's those are words I'm familiar with
and but that's but what you're so
No. Yeah. That right there. How Right. But if you go back to the beginning like you said that way.
Sure. Sure. Okay. If you go to pageif page 50 of the zoning regulations, which is the storm water management section, but that has to do with storm water. So number
where are you?
Where am I? hold slow down. You go too fast. Sorry. Oh, there we go. Any project involving new road to common driveway serving three or more?
So,
well, yeah, that doesn't I I wouldn't say that necessarily explicitly permits a common driveway serving three or more. It would just be
indeed storm water management
or if you have Yeah, if you have a road
which Yeah, I suppose. Yeah. So yeah, we should Yeah, it's it's probably good to be a little bit clearer.
And 4.4 C, that's where you get to the to
in in subdivision or in in zoning?
No, in the in the regulations there.
4.4 C.
Yeah. No, it's not that.
4 4.9.4.
Okay. Rear locks. 4.9.4.
Yeah.
Right here. Driveways.
And if you go down to see
Yeah. So construction of a may grant special permit construction of common driveway to a maximum of two adjacent
wo rear.
So to that that so it's not clear whether that would also include the the front lot you know serving a front lot that that those two rear lots are behind. And in the case of this 280 Route 6, every lot has frontage.
Wow. I I just throw it back at them. I let their engineers and architects and stuff come
and they must be reading the same thing. come up with a something and then if they put something in writing then we all should just look at that
and we'll look at what they have to say first.
Yeah.
Okay, that's plenty. Anything else, Wayne?
No, plenty. [clears throat] Well, is the inland wetland water course agent rep got nothing to report at this point in time? So, now we're back to you, John.
I don't think I have anything further. I I just, you know, with with Eric's pending departure, we're going to meet before, you know, again, before he leaves, to make sure that all of any projects that need my involvement, are are just, you know, that I that I know who to talk to, where where the status of the contract is and that sort of thing. We just need to finalize those those elements. but yeah, I I'm I'm nothing further for me. So Wayne, was that an open space subdivision?
Yeah, that's what they're proposing. An open space subdivision basically cluster.
That would be interesting.
Yeah, that was put in the last plan of conservation group to
must be that 38 acres up on
but I don't know where I don't know that you know up on what
where they were looking the guy wanted to put in the AI data distribution.
That's 25. Yeah,
a surveyor has been up there.
Okay, that would be my guess.
It's taped off and stuff, but next item up on the agenda is public speak. [clears throat] Katherine said through a lot here tonight got anything for us?
No, thank you. I would like to have John's permission to get hold of him sometime simply to discuss some of the changes that in the zoning regulation of the laws that were passed by the last legislature that got vetoed by the governor.
How to get rid of John get hold of John. So,
sure. It's I don't know if if you Katherine if you've got a a pen.
Yes.
But if you have I don't know if you have my email, but it's just just the title planner pla ner at Andoverct andoverct.
yeah, planner andoverct.org.
Okay. Yeah, happy to talk to you
because if it doesn't come up at the special session, I think it's going to be coming up in February again. So,
Oh, absolutely.
Planning and zoning section of the bar assoc bar association
frequently has some information about it and opinions on it, etc.
Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely we work closely with with Jay Klein and and those those folks all the time.
All right. Thank you. Okay, next up is the approval of the minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of our last regular meeting on September 16th. Thank you, Scott. Any any comments on the minutes? that I'll call for vote and Scott.
I saw your lips move in.
I think we
Yeah, I just want to make sure you heard me.
I got it. Okay, thank you. Patrick,
hi.
Leanne,
and I vote I as well. The minutes are approved. 5 0. Next regularly scheduled meeting, November 18th, 2025 to be held as a hybrid meeting. Any last comments? I'll make a motion to adjurnn.
Second.
Thank you, Patrick. All in favor say I.
Any oppose? Any abstain? Motion passes by 0. Thank you very much everybody.