hear France good to see you all right hi John so it's 701 and we will continue the public hearing for the application of William jev property located at 517 R 6 the applicant is seing a special permit for restoration a gravel bit in accordance with section 16 of the zoning regulations so do we have somebody here tonight who is representing the applicant yeah William Will please John I hear you I just didn't catch what your name was William Jen the owner oh okay it's got a different name showing up on the screen to Manny Vios yeah that's my I'm using this Compu okay Mr chair one thing point of order further record Mark BR before we start I just want to introduce Trent Kasin who was shown on screen zooming in with us Trent has just joined our firm we get the bar exam results on October 4th or 5th but we are confident that he has passed the bar so he gets to go to all the zoning commission meetings with me across the state sort of find out what these things are like welcome you might have to turn your volume down just a little bit we were getting some pretty good feedback here but if you can tell us about the application you have application I have I I I did this
the hill gym where we expain grass and it's all straw mesh right now it's all got grass on it straw mess the slope on the side where it goes down from the dryway it's all it's already been with Dam it it's very difficult having a difficult time understanding all well slope that we that I had you out of the property that time the slope that slopes down has straw mesh on it and grass and Loom okay Bill is Jim howon are you talking about the slope along the Hall Road yes thank so I guess is there anything else you would like to say about the application that you have pending at this point no okay agent Hy yeah okay so J yes hi it's lean I couldn't make out much of anything that Mr Genevie said could you ask him to repeat it or I don't know what else to do can you hear me okay yep you're a little faint but you're clear okay yeah long distance call I'm a long way from the owl but well Jim I think you got the gist of what he was saying yes what and Miss Bill if if I'm I never got any comments
on plan that I sent about putting the grass on the side of the the slope there grassing it what's that we were required to address your application in a public hearing we were not allowed to discuss it before we held a public hearing okay anyway if I say something inaccurate Bill correct me please lean what Mr geneves was sharing was that he had put top soil along the slope that runs along the hall and use a mesh material and grab and Loom and I got a high point on the top Edge but the water is going to go top of it say top of I got a lip on there like a high point bur okay a BM along again burm along the U the hall Ro yeah yeah thank you water be directed towards my propit will not leave the understand okay Jim did you have any other comments on the application well I mean there's the application before the commission is is basically the the plan the Reclamation plan and what it shows is limited tap soil along the southern border I'm calling it South it might be Southeast border of property H property along that side but not in the bulk of the area that was was disturbed no no okay I'm sorry Mr J what do you what did you say again just on the slope isal not toward Cent the problem I ju Just for the is it fair to say that the top soil that that was spread out has been buried during the course of the process top soil that was set aside no I put
through top soil there we no no no I'm not not talking about the top the recent top soil but but in general the top soil that that was earmarked for the site for the entire site was was mixed over that okay got buried it got disappeared I just want to make that clear just it's been a while to do it it was probably about two3 of that was sand when I started but it wasn't that much Loom there I said at the beginning that I would spread the loom that was there which I did and I got lost but only inch there the front half of the property when I first started the back half was all sand s Travel Mr geneves are you aware that there's a requirement that you you know according to your original plan spread four inches of top soil excuse me Mr jev do not interrupt the chairman it's difficult in a digital meeting and it's rude sorry about that sir the chairman has finished you may speak go ahead now were you aware of the requirement that the top soil be spread over the entire site that was disturb I was aware of that yes in the beginning but there was not enough topsoil I just said that it was only an
inch of top soil half the property didn't have top soil on okay but the plan that you submitted to the commission it was approved and is the currently approved plan requires 4 Ines of top soil over the entire Disturbed requires at least two in Top Soil spread over the entire excavated area and so I don't see how the application that you submitted complies with our okay the original plan was half the water going to Hutson and half the water going to me all the water going to my proper there's nothing going over on our property I that was theal plan then I changed it and I submitted this plan to the hill which I did straw mesh it's got Blom on it and grass which there's no way it's gonna GNA have any movement at all any movement is going to be it's going to be in the center of the Propet by alleviating your plan for restoration complying with the zoning regulations which require a minimum of 2 in in the case of your previously approved plan it was 4 in from the entire but I had to plan change twice I submitted this one last
ime you have to change the commission cannot authorize any plan that is not in compliance with the regulation say that again sir I didn't catch that the commission is not allowed to authoriz any restoration plan that is in violation of the regulations I'm asking not I don't want to put the tops on my propit I know you don't you do what's that I didn't hear that one I was talking start ahead regulations require that you put top soil over the entire Disturbed area to facilitate growth ere grow there right now I don't want I want I don't want to put top soil because I just peill it off when I put something there okay make my my my part
of my property all mud I understand you understand well why would I want to put make money in my profit when I'm GNA do something ready for building I got I got it's a it's a belly right there no water leav my proper if it does leave my property it's going to go to my other property it does not go towards hus property devil it's Dev if you looked at the second play you had to do it again you wanted a b there got to be no movement so I don't I I don't foresee be put in Top Soil down for grass it's not going to mean anything no we we've been we' had many years nobody's gone into develop it I don't know how many more years it's going to be before it gets developed and we need to stabilize the property the property is tabilized where's where where's my dirt going where's my dirt going where's my stand gonna go onto my property stay in there into in the middle of it the way you had me gr it's not going I don't fore putting grass on top of something that's not High okay well I understand Mr jev's position it's been contrary to his
approved plan all along and I don't think we need to have any more discussion on that well you approved the first first one then you may me regrade it I lost half my my loom regraded it but satisfy you the to have everything go in the center of it now it's all in the center it I don't want to put no dirt in there or glom in there it's all it's secure on the right side as far as I'm concerned it's not going to move I mean common sense if you go out and look at the Lock I got four or five Sil pends alongside that too so where's it going to go tell me where it's gonna go can I can I ask you a question Mr this is for the record this is Mark BR commission's counselor do you have a certification from a Connecticut registered professional engineer that the site is is stable in its current or proposed condition and that there will be no wind borne or waterborne erosion on the site I have an engineer that did that Mr howy have you received such a certification from the applicants in as Mr Bell indicated by in writing that this site that there will be no that as as proposed in this plan that's before the commission that there will be
no windborn or waterborne erosion no nothing I I recall no the asil was done by not done by Chris Bell but was survey at that point Mr Bell was incapacitated and we had done FR coh of his be has so we've received no certification that there is two inches of LOM or or that the site is otherwise stable for both windborn and water born erosion correct correct then our regulation requires the area be maintained until the area is stabilized and approved by the commission and the intent there is you have grass to hold the dirt to keep it from blowing away or eroding away due to water which we saw happen there were a bunch of people that told me you would never get grass to grow without putting the top soil down I was a little bit skeptic I'm a Believer now I saw that
the grass did not grow and so I believe our regulations are correct when they were quired where is it not stable at that's all I want to know you're asking me if it's stable or not you're saying it's not stable where's it not stable at that's what I want to know after the grass is grown after what I put up there the land stable grass is not the dirt's not going anywhere that for the record again Mark Branch that's your statement I I haven't seen anything from an engineer CER will do it after the Grass Grows I gota wait for the grass to grow this week I just put it down this week and if you understood what I said I just put the stuff down the grass don't overnight so if you just put it put the grass if you just put the lman grass down yeah then how does that how does what you did this week relate to the plan that's pending before the commission now well I was out there with Jim he says on on the hill it's a little SP and I said W put
the grass on the hill I'll grass it and everything and it will be stable and then it's not going to move there's nothing else he said about the middle of it anything the other side of it about moving because it's not going to move you had he had concerns about the hill and what that's what I grasp with the hill once it grows my engineer is more than happy to sign off on it it's not g it's got no movement on with the plan that I that I submitted there of May of this year and here we are in September I had no no nobody answered me on this thing grass all along the slope now there's gr Mr H you were out there there's grass growing now along the slope I Haven I haven't been out there in the last since happened this last few days well I mean was there grass growing a few days years ago on this
slope I didn't look at it a few days oh I I I have to assume there wasn't because there was no this was prior to the top soil top soil went in over the last four or five days I believe so the loan went in the last four or five days right in your experience does grass grow in four or five days no so it's probable that there's no grass growing there not is that correct yeah and and just for the record I I never indicated the seating on the inner part of the the site was was not a concern excuse me sir I talked to Jim I I called Jim earlier today to didn't answer his phone I call him to explain that I grassed it I finished up grasing
it today so I don't I don't believe Jim seing yet but it's grassp it's got straw mess all the way down the slope I gotta wait for it to rain get a little wet probably a week or two it'll turn green it's not going to turn green overnight bill I think the larger issue is is the the main part of the site that was Disturbed it has no top soil on the surface that remains to be it's still that's a not in conformance with the zoning regulations is what what is sort of the Crux here my opinion so I think we're we're kind of at a disagreement it's acknowledged the the regulations required top soil that enemies does not want to put top soil down that's been his them all along in spite of the fact that his restoration plan required 4 Ines of top soil over all Disturbed services do any of the commission members have any other questions at this point is there anybody from the public that has any questions or comments at this point Mr chair this is Katherine Hutchinson I'm the adjoining land owner to the southeast you're putting it from
perspective from Route Six along the right hand of the subject property as you're standing on Route Six and looking toward the river I also want to address of the representation was made that the way the property is graded now grades toward the middle and no water would be running the as buil that was done previously by the engineer clearly sh which was done after the grading was done clear clearly shows the high point nowhere near the edge of the access road the plan that he filed with this application does show a proposed new high point which apparently runs along the top of the slope or joining the access road it's not clear whether it goes all the way to Route Six but it's supposed to run from Route Six back to the back
of the property there has been no grading done so that I'm raising the question is to whether or not at this point or whether or not it's something the applicant proposes to do was to regrade so at least it conforms to the plan that he filed with this application in other words the asbill reflects the high point toward his Pro property roughly towards the west and it they proposed according to his U map that he file with this application to repeat myself the new prop proposed High runs along basically along the slope or joining the access road so the property at this point is not graded so that the property so that the water runs toward the middle of his property and you have compare that with a as built you'll see what I'm talk referring to I did note yesterday and today as I drove by there were there was some activity out there that looked like it was greedy in that vicinity what was actually done I can't tell I just know that there was gring in progress so I can affirm the fact that there was some grading going on in that area over the last two days I I would also like to address Mr Jen's comment that he got no
feedback on the application we had intended to discuss this application at a public hearing we set up in July and postponed it for a month at your request so that is why we did not get around to discussing the application we continued we we opened the public hearing at our August meeting and there was nobody here to discuss the application so we continued the public hearing until tonight and this is the first opportunity we have had to had in the public environment at a public hearing to discuss your application I set the application in a may I got no feedback from the people about the high point putting the grass on on the hill I never got no no answer from nobody but ites has a firm right at the high point and it goes down into my
profit Mr J for the record Mark BR you don't get feedback because it's a public hearing the purpose of the public hearing is for you or your engineer to present the application to explain it and to explain how it complies with the zoning regulations and and with the restoration requirements and so on then you get feedback you don't get feedback until the Commissioners heard your application what's happening now is no one is here in person to walk us through the plans can perhaps can you do a share screen and put up the plans and and walk the commission through what you're proposing I don't have that ability right now okay so you that's not something you're able to do right now I understand you have you had had it in I had back from new people so I took it on myself to fix the hill so it wouldn't aod that's why I put grass there that's why the grass there and there's a lip on the top of it that Myer
it's not going to go towards anybody else's problem plus I got three Sil fenses along that prop okay and I got a 150 foot buffer before we even hit some of the problem from where the sand is I don't think you're giving us any new information at this point Mr Genevie so I'm going to move on well I'm asking for a waiver about the 4 in alom not ask I'm asking but I don't want to loom it I want to wait are you Mr are you proposing two inches of loom on the entire site no I don't want no Lo on no Loom on the entire site is your proposing no just on the hill so the the rest of the the rest of the site you're proposing no LOM is that correct pretty much it's weed right now okay I just want just to be fair to you
that means that you're proposing something that violates the letter of the zoning regulations and this commission legally can't grant that request only the zoning board of appeals grants variances this commission can't do that so they they could weigh from 4 inches to two inches if they wished but they cannot raave wave the two inches on the site and you've just testified that you don't have two inches on the entire site and you don't intend to do it correct I don't intend to do it because why why should I make my site muddy make make mud on it that's why I'm asking for a wa no as a matter of fact build on why would I put Loom on there straight it off put on you put LOM on and then you seed it and then it's not right do any of the commission members think there is a need to extend the public hearing Beyond
tonight information that anybody's going to want that we don't have I I'll call the zon board of appeals apply it for okay hearing nobody that wants to continue the public hearing the public hearing on the property on 517 Route 6 is closed I don't of the public were the other members of the public okay I heard Miss Hutch speak I didn't know if anyone else any other members of the public wanted to speak are there any other members of the public that wanted to speak on on this okay public hearing is closed 7:29 I wanted to speak on a different next up is a public hearing for the application of the Bale soccer club property of the town of vover Riverside ride and Long Hill Road applicants seeking special permit for lighting at down home Recreation Fields okay for the record my name is Eric Anderson I'm the Town Administrator
I'm here on behalf of the Town also on the call is Zach Edinger Edinger who is representing veale East soccer so and who submitted the application the reason I'm involved is because this is occurring on Town property therefore I signed for the application so do you want to walk us through the application or is Zach G to do that that's up to you guys you tell us how you'd like us to handle it Dak why don't you start off and then I'll jump in where appropriate okay so I believe everybody has the document that we put together with support of the town on
what we're attempting to do in the past we have had lights on this site that are temporary lights and so inside of the zoning code for temporary lights there are certain things that are really hard for us to gather including you know the the the candle area that they service based upon the location of the light and or where they're facing but if as you can see we showed a photo of what the the lights have looked in the past and then we have a little diagram towards the end of the document that shows what we're hoping to do for the upcoming season so that that's the gist of what we're trying to do okay and so just to be clear the applicant owns one currently owns one set of portable lighting that are 23 ft High that are composed of four h hallogen bulbs that is the one pictured on the first page they're aimable and movable you can see they have a rear reflective cone but they don't have any additional shielding what the applicant is proposing to rent and given to the commission earlier were cut sheets for those applicant or those applications were 23t all light towers that utilize four LED lights each that are roughly 230 watt bulbs so I did reach out to the manufacturer and attempt to get cut sheets and an ISO diagram for the lighting they were not able to provide me with anything frankly so what I provided you was a similar set of specifications for a gener set of portable lights which also use four LED lights mounted at the same height as the the ones that the applicant is
proposing ordering and which have a higher intensity higher total number of lumens and higher total number of Watts than the ones that the applicant is using so that is the information we've been able to provide and if you look there is a ISO diagram of the light output for a light that is that is aimed 5 degrees above horizontal for the round can which is almost identical to what is on the existing single light and then on the last or on page three you have the iso diagrams for the equivalent of what they're planning on putting on and then on the last page superimposed on the field diagram is the location and the basic aiming of the lights that the applicant would like to use so that in a nutshell is the information that we have okay agent Hy your comments on the application yes thank you well it does not appear that there are the lights proposed our night sky compatible and I understand why I did have fairly extensive con conversation with Jeremy Wilson who was involved with with bale soccer but nonetheless the regulation calls for night sky compliance and this application did not meet that requirement also the lumens a little confused about but my understanding is we have a cut sheet from from another manufacturer a different manufacturer it's not clear to me that how I would apply that to this my understanding they're they're more substantial they're they're higher or brighter and therefore I think the
logic was that these the lights that are proposed would have less inact but but I don't know that's per fact actually that's all I have okay any comments from anybody on the commission y I'm just curious the one that's current one that we have the picture of how tall is that Tower and how tall are the proposed Towers they're basically the same height those towers are all around between 22 and 23 ft long okay so the the difference is the type of a bulb that's going to be used correct and then you have more this was just they only have one right now no that so that is one single unit that has four buls that are all independently aimable the new unit that they're proposing to rent also have four independently aimable folds we're doing six of them so I don't think so one two three four five there's six shown on here but that is because two are existing Town lights that are field security lights that are there anyway so what he's proposing is to bring on three additional units and use the one temporary that he already owns the town lights the yellow the yellow versus the orange yes
correct thank you D could I suggest that we read the regulations before we do anything certainly and in happy to do that I because I read them and I I see no none of the information that's supposed to be available to us on the I agree with that comment rather than read all the regulations I would kind of like to focus on those things that I was looking for and didn't find and so you know in section 4.21 of our regulations lighting regulations in all zoning districts it talks about all exterior spotlighting flood lighting shall be so shielded that the light source cannot be seen from adjacent properties and no lighting shall constitute a hazard to drivers at night on public streets next line down outdoor lighting shall be dark sky compatible full cut off type fixtures defined as Lumin a or light fixture that by design of the housing does not allow any light dispersion for direct layer to shine above 90° horizontal plan plane from the base of the light fixture lighting at the property line shall not exceed 02 lumens per square feet so that was those were the three things that I was looking for for 421 on Section 23.5 B1 lighting regulations requiring site plan or special permit under 23.5 b.1 point2 submission of lighting plan applicants proposing the installation of outdoor lighting shall file with the commission a lighting plan subject to the site plan reviewed said plan should be designed in accordance with lighting standards and requirements and shall contain the
following location height type of about door lighting poles and luminaries including building mounted luminaries The Luminaries manufacturers specification data including movement output and photometric data showing cut off angles the W engine type of lamp I led complex perin high pressure sodium Etc an ISO diagram or photometric plan showing the intensity of the illumination expressed in lumens per square foot at ground level including at property lines hours of business operation when lighting will be turned off or reduced the security levels and by what means automatic n solar switches Etc theing supports and fixtures are now within 50 ft of a property line of a property that either contains a residential users within a residential district and then I went down to the part that we recently modified 23.5 B3 modifications modifications to this section for public outdoor recreation facilities may be permitted by the commission by special permit a lighting study should be required to determine the maximum recommended lighting fixture height in maximum Lum per square foot based on the type and intensity of the sport or use in the size of very Illuminator the maximum Lums for square foot will not exceed the value specified in The Illuminating engineering Society
of North America publication RP 6-15 Sports and recreational area lighting for us pickle ball so those and I know that's asking a lot for the temporary lighting system but I think it's important at this point that we go back to why we're here today and as I recall this became an issue last October because we had the lights at the soccer field shining directly across into a neighbor's house and the they were complained about that we ended up not pursuing the matter because we came to the end of soccer season but we've had essentially a year to address this issue and figure out how to to do it properly because I think you know I certainly have no opposition to lighting the field that you know I looked up online Bale's a great Sports I know they do a good job with what they of in last December and in January we actually revised the lighting RS and I was hoping at that time that there would
have been a representative from Bale Bale Sport Club that you know participated in some of those discussions so that you know that would have been the ideal opportunity to fix the regulations and and see what we could do to make it possible so that's those were the regulations that that I was looking for Scott the information spelled out that that I did not see any other questions from any other commission members can I ask a quick question or is it not yet the our our time oh go go right ahead thank you so the regulations that you just read off are they specific to permanent lights versus temporary lights or are they for all lights and I I'm sorry that I don't know that answer outad of them I think it's for all lights we certainly have no no specific regulations for temporary lights or permanent lights we just have you know the purpose of these regulations is provide specific outdoor lighting standards in order to avoid upward illumination reduce flare and avoid light thres trespass on adjacent properties in public streets so when I look at the intent it would apply both to Temporary and permanent headit and and again excuse my naivity but when there are Street for Street work by the state or the town do they apply for a
permit with you guys before using those the town yes the state I can't swear to how that works I I don't know this is attorney Branch record Mark Branch the state is is exempt from local zoning so they don't they don't have to comply with local zoning the to the town does Private clubs do developers do Etc so do you guys have any past applications from the town that we could review and see what we're missing from ours we do when when we put up the lighting for the new community Senior Center they had a lighting plan but was that terminant or was that temporary that was perminent right I'm saying from from a temporary perspective no we had no we have no other applications for temporary okay so when the town when there are lights that are being used for construction work right Road lights for the S the town and things like that they don't need to apply and and have the the specific details for you guys I don't know the answer to that question okay and again I'm not trying to be tough I'm just trying to see how we can compare what we're trying to accomplish on a Town property with a leas in place versus what has been potentially done in the past and and obviously I I appreciate your comment about the the winter of last year and we did miss that so I apologize about that but in potentially what we are looking for is if we can do the two months that we require based upon our lease that's in place and then maybe revisit it together for a longer term
solve so I don't know if that's something that we can potentially talk about together as a group so I went out and looked at the light fixture that you have out there now and if you know and that's the one that Eric provided the photo of that's a little difficult to see at a distance but I do think you might be able to make something like that work I know the lights on the bottom half of the pole because of the mount you can rotate those down a full you know they can be flat out parallel to the ground with no tilt on them at all so you can make those dark sky compliant I don't know that they would have to be all the way down to be dark sky compliant you can have a little bit of tilt because you've got the cone on there that Shields it and so you can slant those out towards the end and have no light come above the Horizon as long as that the top edge of
your cone is at 90° or below so that gives you a lot of latitude the upper lamps are a little bit harder because that VI Mount prevents the lamp from rotating down as far as you would need to rotate it to make it dark sky compliant that's that's just a straight piece of metal that go goes around I don't know if you could get from the person that you rent them from permission to bend it so that it can make it to where you can Shine the Light down or make your own VI for the upper lamps and go there but but there are things that you could do with this this light that I think make a dark sky compliant that's that's just my guess I certainly not a lighting engineer in the
the thing talks about that can I ask another question then I'm sorry based upon your comment is that okay sir sorry okay so if I understand based upon the dark is the dark sky compliance your biggest concern based upon the regulations or is it the the the neighbor or like how do we work together and is so I guess that's the question is is the dark sky compliance your biggest concern I I think you know I and I'm only one member we've got you know five different commission members I don't we haven't discussed this yet because that's what the public hearing is for sure my personal thought is I think they're both important because you know dark sky compliance is getting to be a big deal and the neighbor who had the lights shining directly across the field into their window I thought had a valid concern so I I kind of got both of those and I would also you know I wanted to point out that that in here where we talked about this Illuminating engineering Society for North American Sports and recreational area lighting it has a couple of different examples in there that show Shields that you can make to put over a light so that
they can become dark skyli so I think you can do it it might take a little bit of Ingenuity but if you want the lights that would I think I think it's possible without an awful lot of difficulty to comply with our regulations questions R this if they rolled this fixture over they would have to they still would have to be shielded if they they rolled that whole thing over 90 degrees they still have to have shielding are you saying that because the back of the con is open then yeah I didn't look at it from that perspective again you know the that Sports and recreational area lighting
guideline showed a bunch of different you know you can put a box over it or they had different kinds of shields Can can I ask can I ask another favor I'm sorry can I just ask that we identify ourselves so that I know who's talking about that is that something that normally happens in the town meeting we can do that I'm J lar the chairman we're usually on Zoom yeah so I will ask that the people including the commission members when they speak identify themselves just so Zach can know who we are here too thank you guys any other comments from the commission on the application we have reports I have a question general and this is Amar deel one of the commission alternates is there a time limit as far as how late these lights can be on that is reg there is not a specified time limit the the intention which is in here it says one of the things we're looking for is we're looking for the applicant's desire how late does he want to have it on and and then you know we can go with that but we're trying to figure out how long are the lights going to be on and that sort of thing you if we're going to be out playing soccer at 3 in the morning that's a different picture than I think what they normally do is they stop like 8 or n o' and so but but that's what we were looking for
that's what I was looking for in the application to tell us that kind of information thank you any other commission members the end did you have a question no okay I'm going to move to can I no and a couple other questions I think yeah and CR the the plan with the map there it looks like most of the lights are on the side of Riverside Drive so that way they're aiming away from the how is that correct there's only one that looks like it might be facing the houses on the other side there of Riverside Drive so that's that's a good thing I like that I guess it's too bad you can't get
the Towers taller so that then the light would be aiming down more and still Illuminating the field but I guess May the limitation and reportable Light great anybody from the public that would like to comment on here and Han yes for the record Hank Bruner on the Conservation Commission and one other consideration that the the commission should be aware of is that the town's recreational field since immediately adjacent to two very important natural resource areas one of them is it's immediately along the Hop River and then on the Western adjacency is a town par larget Town parcel that is flood plan with a fair number of natural habitats including veral pools one of the concerns with gar Skies or the connetic some of the Connecticut Lighting in around conservation is associated with migratory birds so I I would agree with the recommendation that follow follow a you know some level of shielding and I don't know whether there are companies that actually make shielding or an inquiry could be made to the vendors or you know that you're that you're using F to see if there is shielding available that can be used to adapt to the to the units so that they're downcasting the light and not bleeding it into the horizon or shooting up the second major part though is the timing of the activities around migratory patterns or when frogs are falling and the recommendation is
basically we are between August 5th the migratory season between August 15th and November 15th that the lights should be shut off and I'm assuming that this would probably be easy unless there's some pretty late night soccer going on between 11:00 p.m and 6: a.m. there should be no lighting and then again the same time FR April through May 31st April 1st through May 31st no lighting between 11: and 6 11:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. a lot of those birds migrate at night the vernal pools would be addressed pretty much by because somewhat with a distance generally we look at within 750 ft of the pools these pools are with I measured it with about 650 ft but if they were down if the if the units were not bleeding that way which they don't appear to be in the layout that you had I don't think it would be an issue for that side of U for the girl pools of the frogs using those so that's probably a lesser issue but want to just keep in mind that that is a natural area there and maintaining you know as much downward directed light as possible on that western side especially is is pretty important any other comments from any members of the public not yet sorry with this application no h so Jay this is scotton speaking on commission anyways if you allow them if
they put shielding and all this does it still have to meet all the guidelines in the regulation wow that's it yes I mean there's there ought to be some ways that we can work you know we can make them as hard as possible or as easy as possible but we ought to address each of these things here and I think if you went back and you looked at the lighting plan I guess the town did have a lighting engineer I don't know how much that cost to do that I I'm guessing that we can get the light levels adjacent below that point2 lumens thing you know but I would like I would like [Music] to see a plan that at least recognizes that we're going to make an attempt to do that even if we were to go out and get a light meter so that we can measure the light you know and a light meter is like 15 or 20 bucks you can get an app for your phone okay yeah so so it's it's not hard I do think yeah so so yes we is as we just talked on the last public hearing that you sat through we can't not comply with the regulations you know that we are all fored to do that when we when we accept the position is that we're going to uphold regulations and that doesn't mean that I don't make one now and then but I do my very best to try and meet him and and I think Eric would tell you that you know he's had to do some things that he wasn't really excited about because they were required by the regulations and so we in and all that is way different than
the application we've got in front of us tonight which doesn't address any of those things I say that this is scan again but you know if you go through these there's a lot of regulatory things that are in these regulations that need to be addressed the paring the parking lighting is different than the field lighting you know there's there's two pages of regulations everybody really should read that Mr chairman Mark bran the record one question is this a site plan application or is a special permit application special special permit I just the time it had to be is the neighbor to the soccer field on the call so with what what I would like to do and looking for feedback from the commission is we hold the public hearing open and and try and can I speak to that before you guys make a motion on that please so is that
okay I'm sorry is it the right timing for me no this good okay so first anarie you know to your point the timing would be as the season gets later and they need to go on earlier they would go on earlier but they would be off rough at 9:15 once the kids are safely back to their cars the levels of the lights are determined a little bit on the safety of the players these are temporary lights not permanent lights therefore we we ask for a special permit for the length of time that we're looking to add the lights our club brings 200 families to the town right that also support the local businesses and everything else in that local area if we move to extend this to the next meeting then our ability to run our business in your town is not going to be the case we're going to have to change our lease and we're going to have to move to find a venue that can support the kids safety in playing soccer in the evenings 200 plus families and so I just want to point
that out that we asked for a special permit based upon the timing and doing this in the proper order we didn't we we haven't moved the lights there we can't get the light meter and all of those things until we get the approvals from guys so that's why we went forward in the direction that we did record Mark BR I think that deserves an answer if timing is important and if the number of families involved is significant then you should have come here prepared tonight ready to address the criteria the regulations and provide the information that our regulations require the chairman is being very kind by offering to keep this public hearing open he could just close it tonight and your application would be denied because it is incomplete and not compliant so try to try to keep that in mind thank you sorry no I I do recognize the advantages L down and I think that there is a
win-win answer out there put the energy in to to getting it yet and I cannot in good conscience ignore what we have in our regulations and I can't ask any of the other commission members to do that either I'm story but that's just not that's just that's not how it can go so so I will keep public I do recommend to the commission that we keep the public hearing open and if if the soccer club you know chooses to go someplace else I guess that'll have to be that way I I hope that that isn't there but you we could have been working on this for the last year and and and didn't and and I know that there's probably lots of blame to go around there that's not just on you guys but that's where we are you can't come in and ask me to approve an application that doesn't doesn't be the requirement so I'm not going to make a motion I'm just going to go ahead and continue the public hearing to the next meeting and we'll make a decision at hat any questions on that so what would the next step be would they have to just resubmit or just edit what they already submitted they need to come in and tell us yo here are the characteristics they they need to come in with a plan that addresses our regulations you know they need to be able to go through there Point by point
and address it not just say we just want to put up lights and and I know I'm not trying to be insulting or prous or anything like that but and and maybe that's something that the town need to spend a little money in to to help it out because it is good for the town I don't know but it's not the commission job to engineer that with public hearing but the answer your question is they don't have to start over if the hearing were closed and Deni they have to pay a new application fee they would have to be a new public hearing but by
keeping the hearing open they're allowed to supplement their submission with an eye toward addressing the regulatory criteria and and by the way some some of the lighting manufacturers will help you with light with the autometric planes thank okay so it's 8:04 we will continue this public Hearing in our next meeting and do you have a date on the agenda when when that's going to kay that concludes the public hearings for [Music] tonight it is 8:05 I will call the regular meeting to rderers roll call seating of alets I see all of the regular commission members are alternate and that is it additions or changes to the agenda I would like to add new item under new business 6B solar panel installation at Andover Elementary School any other changes to the agenda that anybody has in mind
hearing none I'll make a motion to add new item 6B Elementary School solar panels to the agenda second okay thank you an any I we I okay okay motion passes 500 first up a public comment limited to concerns and issues not on the agenda I think you're going to want to talk about something that is on the agenda I like you tell me what you want to talk about sure my name is bar Kyle I'm on 425 R six I wanted to talk about the concerts that are being held right behind my property yeah so that is that is a new business item you know that we will be talking about and I think sure well we won't necessarily give you an opportunity to talk about that tonight I'm thinking that what we say about it you'll know when you do have the opportunity to okay thank you but first up is the application of William Jenner 517 Route
6 special permit for modification to an existing special permit to operate a sand gravel operation I think I think it's pretty cut and dried that that the application does not meet the requirements of regulations modification he doesn't want to put any tox out of right and in spite of the fact that his his restoration plan has continually said four Ines of top soil he repeatedly said he doesn't want to put any top soil in there so there was there was a disconnect between him and himself for the last several years any other comments on the restoration plan for the Gravel Pit any questions for the restoration plan for the Gravel Pit actually BR modification [Music] modification okay here we none Jim hi Le hson was the last month the application fee had not been paid has it been paid since then yes it has okay thanks yeah I think it was I thought it paid right before the meeting last time it's been paid otherwi okay so the way I understand that motions go is that we are always encouraged to make the motion in the positive and if you don't like it you can vote against it as opposed to the negative and if the negative motion doesn't pass you don't know where you are with with that in mind I will make a motion to approve the application of the modification to the existing special permit for restoration of the sand and gravel operation looking for a second and thank you that's a second any discussion any questions yeah go ahead B this is Patrick dhy I'm just new to this special permit and the modification to it and I I'm wondering what the
actual vote is for is that for an exemption of the tox oil requirement or just a modification the vote is on the modified restoration plan that presented that did not have any pop we we cannot he cannot Grant a waiver for a variance he would have to go to his only board of appeals for for that than if he wanted to any other questions or comments hearing none hearing none I call for a vote Dan pleas no okay here it works Scott lean nay Patrick GNA abstain for now okay I vote nay as well the motion fails by a vote of zero four in one extension Patrick dar moving on to the next item is the application B soccer club given that we continued the public hearing until the next meeting I do not intend to take a vote on that application tonight and we will move on to the next item next item is modification to parking at 17 25 School Road Town Hall Community Center here okay so all of you may recall that as one of the things that was
required by the town for the application for the endover community center was a new parking plan so the town proposed to the zoning commission a parking plan for essentially the municipal camp itself which en encompassed the school the town hall the new community center and the fire department and showed that the amount of available parking spots after construction was solidly in the middle between the minimum and maximum required parking so what we have there now is perfectly compliant with the zoning regulations however one of the things we realized is that we are somewhat short of parking directly in front of the F Hall we're going to make one administrative move by taking a spot that's now dedicated for a resident trooper and moving him to around the back of the building which will free up one more visitor parking spot we would also like the ability to put in one additional parallel parking spot in the area where there used to be two slant parking spots most of you remember in anytime you go to the town hall you often see people parking in the old spots those spots were eliminated because it does not even come close to meeting the the requirements in our zoning regulation for the aisle wish the zoning regulations require 24ot wide aisle if you have perpendicular parking to the aisle so with that slant parking
it's a lot less than that in fact we have had several minor bumps there fairly recently you know that I've witnessed because my window looks out at that so we're not proposing to put that back in that was taken out with the original parking plan however that spot will sustain a single parallel parking spot and still have well more than the aisle withd that the commission's regulations required so basically what we're looking the town is looking to add in a single parallel parking spot in that parking area I did discuss it with the zoning chair we brought his rather large pickup truck out there and demonstrated hopefully to his satisfaction that he could park in all the spots and still not run into a car handily that was parked there because it's just a single spot my suggestion is that that be handled instead of as a full-blown application for a modification to the parking plan for the community center that you handle that as administrative business and allow Jim to make good ecision sure oh how many handicap spots are we required to have and how
many do we have are we both or just so that is a good question so we are basically we are above the minimum if you take all the spots for the community center the town hall yeah maybe by one there's some question about whether we could convert one of the one single handicap spot back to a regular spot I just thinking that there there seems to be a lot of handicap SPS and with the community center you still have quite a distance to go get to the community center I mean I know there's that one right at the door right but then the other ones you really have to kind of a far distance so I didn't know what the advantage Hing back spots well I I've seen so far for one of EV four handicapped spots being used concurrently in one free in front of the Town Hall so I've seen four of the five available spots in use at one time for an event so a significant fraction of the seniors that are using the facility do have handicap stickers so for senior center events I think pretty I wasn't sure we're at the minimum or about that's questions Jim do you have anything on any question do you Jim Hy Eric do
you know when those will be stried so that's a good question we have an inquiry in with the striping company now we're hoping to get them out in within the next month we haven't the Public Works Foreman has not outlined the striping for that spot yet pending a decision by the commission but I would assume within the next month we will strip that than you or sign what for the resident s do move the sign yeah is that something we do like yeah yeah we're just going to move the sign take the resident state trooper sign off and put a visitor sign here yeah and what we've been doing is we've tried to make it clear to employees that
employee Park Eng is behind the town hall so that the people that are coming in and out for short duration parking the closer Lots which is led to some grumbling but that's like thank you any other questions on this particular issue for comments okay I would like to I will make a motion that we permit the zonian enforcement officer to authorize minor non-substantial deviations from the approved special permit and I consider the addition of this one parking spot to be that minor non-substantial deviation from the overall site plan okay thank you Scott any other discussion hearing that I'll call for a vote Dan hi Scott hi lean you are un I Patrick I and I vote I as well motion passes 5 thank you next up discussion is to allowable use of special permits at the property at 11 Bunker Hill Road property known as fit Family Farm And permitting special events in general turn over you want to talk to us about what you had in mind or yeah basically we have we like to have concerts weddings do have a haunted a haunted house with a Haunted Trail just having more events at the facility you know open up for if someone want a graduation I don't know you know some of you have been down there in the see the facility but I've done a lot of work to to the property and made it more
you know more friendly and more inviting and stuff like that concerts we've had a few and basically you know starting 7 ending at 10: we did have a rain out we had one on a Sunday that went from 5: to 8 being mindful of neighbors and and obviously you know I was you know you know understanding I don't think we have a town noise but I know we obviously kind is getting up there so the way I where I put myself stage I built a a concrete pad and I have it facing away from everyone going in towards towards my building so again I try to be as accountable as possible but at the same token try to utilize property the best we can okay the stage is already installed well it's just a concrete pad so when I say stages that's what they just play on it's like a paper you know raised it's raised up like not even it's right on the ground yeah just like
a patio yeah basically okay Jim do you have any comments no just I want to go go back in time a little bit here when Ryan first bought the property there was come I believe I come to the commission and kind of share some of the thoughts that he had had bounced off me and also when the when the Bible family there and at that time didn't seem to be a lot of concern and now when I had asked initially put it on the agenda it was based on a conversation I had with Ryan and then there appears to be some concerns from from Neighbors or at least one neighbor and I think the concern is there and this this is not unique to to Ryan's property by any means there's special events that occur here and there most of them are like one time or you know on occasion and you know looking through the regulations properties in the indust largely in the industrial Zone some of it's in the flood zone I don't think that being utilized at all maybe some trees are growing there I think so it's not if there's nothing listed in the allowable uses with special perit uses that would cover special events so I thought I would bring it to the commission just sort of for General feedback and then the specific concern came up about conerts in particular so I'm sure this did give me a letter he could come forward the Michael picked him up better stting that the concert would be angled away from my property I'm right behind him the noise
actually goes right through our Windows like when we're closed when we have the closed windows you're not sleeping it's impossible you might as well just stay up how do you make a rock concert quiet I'm not sure I see in in your in your website I see big speakers and you know it's rock and R it's how are you gonna I don't get it it's not that I don't like music it's just that I believe it's seven times so far and some there was two times on one weekend so you're always wondering am I going to have another weekend just rock concert every day on weekend so it is very disturbing I have I mother with me who's she can't slaved
You Know It's upsetting to we don't know when we don't know when it's going to happen so when you're saying you're having events that kind of gives us the the Jitters because why when are these events what are they doing is it going to be is it going to be Rock and R music is it going to be athletic you know we're not sure exactly what this is so it sounds very vague it sounds very the the request you have sounds very vague and it sounds very like open to what whatever you want to do so far it hasn't been very pleasant to be honest why you would think aiming away would prevent the music or coming to our house I don't know I mean sound goes right up there it's just I mean the way is going to work maybe sound barriers might work I don't know but you know I did call once and said this is loud you said you said no it's not loud well I guess it's it's a matter of opinion whether something's louder than that if you're trying to sleep it's loud if you're if you're out of concert it's probably not loud so I got it understand understand your concern that's very concerning if there was a limit to these if there was a number if there was some kind of schedule that would be very helpful but I'm just fearful we're going to have weekends every weekend especially if you you know really popular and U very stressing and it also
it also have you sell your property have you're selling a house and by the way those Rock H have so in addition to the noise on round six there's a noise from back there on the weekend so it's very stressing so we look forward to that pcing Qui and I I really do you know don't want to have an issue with neighbors I I really don't want to you know I love his dog com you know it's great yeah is there more but but I just it's just the concert it's just the noise coming in the house and it's very dis disturbing just just want are you right six I'm right under around six I'm on for 25 said so I am right he's right Mr is right behind me so and on the side yeah he's right he's right e of the bar that goes across FFF and they had like I believe the funky monkey thing they had music you I was during the day it was only a two times a year and I was fine but every night on the weekend it's time
it's really time so so I think the purpose of tonight was to see if we can figure out maybe a way ahead the when when I look through I think you're primarily in the industrial Zone in said so I look through the business district were all the things that you had the right to do and all the things that were special permited in the business district and I didn't see anything that sounded like an outdoor event B so I said okay it's not doing doing that and the reason I mention the business is because all the business things are incorporated into the invest mod so it starts out if it's if you're in the industrial Zone and
it's a business thing you can you can do it using same kind of rules in there I look through in the industrial things as well and and certainly you know there's no outdoor venue kind items listed by special permit or or by right it was interesting I looked in the flood plane and that's where it came up the closest to me is that you know one of the things you can do in a flood plane is you can have carnivals and and events like that of course I can't find it right this minute probably com yeah but but it does make sense to me that you know if if you were living next it would be nice to know what the limitations are just just like the special permit that we're asking for for lighting you know the neighbor wants to know when the lights are going to be on what's the worst Gates all that kind of stuff when Jim brought the issue up a year ago you know I had been to an event over your tree farm when you were doing Christmas trees and you had hot cocoa and and
stuff like that very small event you know but it's kind of expanded along the way so we're not a Christmas tree farm anymore we're turning into more of an event venue and I'm not saying we can't change the regulations to inove that but that would take a little bit of time because we'd have to figure out you know what what are some reasonable limitations and certainly because even in the flood zon when we're having a carnival or something which is a very limited short time you know maybe once or twice a year thing it would be by special permits so that we can get input from The Neighbors on that and so what I would hope is that you talk to the Neighbors at I work all this stuff out and and have some kind of a thing so that if we if we were to figure out how to to get a special permit application by changing the regulations then then we would do that but I would encourage you to you know talk to talk to your neighbor and say yep I understand your concern I kind of like to grow my business but but I I know you're trying to do the right thing and in the town you happy that who grow your business but we've got to protect the rights of the natives and so there's there's two steps is first we would have to change the regulation like we did with the community center you know we didn't have the we didn't have anything in our regulations that allowed us to build
communities that are in a residential area so we added it we would have to add something and we need your help you know what is that something but I think it's kind of like an outdoor venue you know you're talking weddings concerts and that kind of thing and we would put some kind of limitation in there to how many of them there's going to be and and that sort of thing so that you know the neighbor is not saying oh God we can't come up you know you agree with what a reasonable number of those is that that you can live with in the neighbor might tolerate and that sort of thing so those were the two those are the two steps that I think we we have to do and and I would ask ask K to work closely with your neighbors so that you can you know try to get him on your side for what you want to do then I know if I lived right next door to a rock concert I wouldn't be real excited about that either but U but I think there's a lot of good things
you can do down there that don't have to make that kind of noise you know it's ex your your business has been expanding which is good I think it's now you know it's gone on all of us that you're no longer a Christmas tree farm you're trying to be something else and it's thank you yeah question ISS well the Christmas tree par is an outside venue so that Christmas tree farm is a farm correct but they we sell Christmas trees and people com yep that's a farm you know that's like selling V so use right what was that consider use right all right yeah I'm just I mean it's you're put restraints on the business that's right I'm kind of I'm kind of at a loss and if we don't have regulations what do you need me to do I reached out to my neighbors I have two neighbors one that's probably about 50 feet from the stage he hasn't saying and I did send you guys an email with the readings of the Des whatever it's called that I took when the concert was going on for those that didn't get the email at exactly the same on my property his house is here the president's house is here I'm here on my property and it was 64 decimal you walk up five more 10 more feet towards root Route 6 was 72 decimal every single car that went by all right with no music just the Crickets and the bugs 55 excuse me you're it's clear that you've never dealt with decel meters or decel regulations that's not how the measurements are done just so you know okay well I would welcome you guys to come out and test it I'm just doing it
as a as a l i can I understand understand I'm saying the speak you deduct you deduct background noise from generated noise in a properly done acoustic study but let me Mr chairman I think I can be more helpful here what we're talking about is a proposal for event centers filling with a farm many towns have regulations on this I've drafted several myself I have reviewed several more what I can do is I'll provide you with a couple of the samples that I've seen work and I'll tell you right in this there's kind of two models for these kind of two two approaches I know I did one for Scotland I reviewed one for Sherman I drafted one for I think Harford so I've done a bunch of these the two models are model one is the regulation spells out how often how what hours etc etc ET so it's sort of fixed the other model is where you set certain fewer maximum minimums but the applicant brings in their their prop a specific proposal so the applicant says you know this many events this many people these hours this frequency these days days or nights of
the week and then you can approve modified approve or deny B SED Abes they're called Agra business they're not unusual they're you see this with I represented a winery in grany and as East Grand East Grand and they have this sort of thing and I drafted that regulation for the for the development for for the farming so there there's there's a bunch of ways to go at this a lot of times have those regulations the key to all those regulations though is that you know what you're approving okay and I would say to you that until regulation like that is adopted and an application is filed under that application the concerts and weddings are not an accessory use to a farm so if those things are occurring now they are in violation so reg you do need a regulation mean a keep serving hot chocolate in a tree farm you know you may say that's accessory but but but weddings and concerts are not accessory to a farm unless you have a regulation that says so and like I say many towns have adopted those kinds of regulations so I can give you several samples to take a look at and you can take a look at those samples and see you can talk to your own attorney about what experience he he or she may have in these types of regulations like I said they're not
unusual but you just don't have one yeah I think we should you know we we've talked about putting them ven you it corners or something so we need one I was a little surprised how close the house was to are you taking the sound of like a truck Jake breaking down a hill I mean if you do that imagine that for three hours straight you know it's a big difference no I understand and so the way would work is first we'd have to change the regulations that would require a public hearing we would get a chance to make your input at that then after the regulations are changed we can put in an application for his business it's allowed by the regulations right this minute we do not have a regulation that allows you to do what you're currently doing so you have Revelations I say I can't do it yep we do we do have something that says well we don't have something that says you can it's not on the list of here's what you can do by right here's what you can do by special permit and it's not there's nothing like what you're doing in either of those ctions is right it is a little big gr and and that's why the best thing would be to work closely with the neighbors and come to me each other how does this compare to things like you know they have concerts at they have music at the farmers market like how does that compare is it because he's a business for like I mean are the are concerts at the lake are they I mean right there yeah in
the residential zones you do a lot I know you have some stuff for recreational uses in temporary events I don't know I don't know how they handle those I don't I think they probably fill in a town permit request and and we do it and and I hadn't looked at it you from so they're allowed because it's presal I'm not saying that never looked at it never never thought they asked the question I I had had thought could you somehow get some sort of a like the Band Shell shaped thing behind the performers which would then project The Sounds away more than what they are just sitting there where the sound goes in all directions it doesn't the stage is actually set to push totally in opposite of his house plus there's a big hill and hundreds of trees that are buffering all that as well the stage is designed so that the music is pushing and the speakers are pushing out towards the river to the Hot River not towards Route Six and like I said where I where I
registered the sound there was no trees there was no Hill it was a direct root path to the stage as opposed to the hill and trees but I understand thumping you know gets you know can get Anno don't give me S you know and I understand all these things all these barriers are say simply the only tool we have tonight would be to tell you how to do it I have't book for S so I'll let you know that Tom was now to go well again it's like every weekend you know this is the problem with our col is that we we try to we try to do little things like this and it gets shut down at all cost but it's a big every every little business in to but this I was this is not room how many people attend this cont 50 people it's not it's not a big it's like me it's like me throwing a party at my house
except you don't usually throw a party at your house two or three days a weekend but I could actually no you probably couldn't especially if you were charging admission are these free there there's no admission there's donations there's donation oh got donation that courts have sorry courts have held that accepting donations is still commercial use that doesn't that doesn't cut judges aren't that stupid I mean this is this is the problem yeah you know what I mean it's whatever trying to do we just shot down on this top I I disagree with that because we have we have sat by why you continue to expand you know the the nature of the events you're doing over there over the last couple years and you know it gets to the point where you're not a farm anymore you're an event an industrial comp okay then apply for an industrial use it is it is industrial use my farm is industrial used I get tax it on that way so so in the industrial Zone event centers are permitted use
what was that event centers are permitted use in the industrial zone no they're not no no you have you gotten a ceist order from The Zing okay so you have not been shut down the chairman and I are trying to explain to you that there is a way to do what you want to do that it is done in other towns that there are regulations that facilitate that and you're saying well then that's shutting you down wait just second I would do urge you well because you don't have no permits for it now but there is no permit for it that's right we one develop it so you can I'm not going to engineer here tonight I don't know what the the regulation would say and that's why it came but that's why we put the list here that's why we had to add municipal building to the residential so we could build the the seniors in and that was where's a fair amount of churn about doing that then we got to do we got to do this right we have to be respectful of neighbors as well there's most of the event venues that I see are pretty big pieces of property where they are way far away okay yeah no I would say more like 50
AC and I recall you know Carter Farm bigger place they've had the complaints from The Neighbors about the the concerts going on there I don't know how to go look up what the resolution was over there but I do know they don't the day yeah to six yeah they they changed because of the the neighbors BR about sound so so that's all I got for you tonight if if want to pursue you know a change to the regulation to that we can start working on that but we need have a little thought on what you'd like to actually do M Mr chair yes joh hi to for the record John gusowski Town planner if it if it's appropriate I'd be happy to work with Mr Fitch on on some proposed options town of Columbia right next
door recently approved an event venue text amendment to their zoning regulations as well as they have separate regulations for Winery based events obviously this is a tree farm it's a little bit different but but there are you know as as attorney brand said there are different regulatory approaches but the first step would be to Define specifically what the applicant wants to see happen there and and shape some regulations around it again it would be a proposal but if it's appropriate I'd be happy to work with Mr Mr Fitch on it okay do you want to see diry Bran's models that he has or Mark and I attorney Brans and I can trade examples okay we we've done it before okay so that's that was that was the discussion that that hopefully describes a way to work for you I think the town does want to see you progress ran see should just ignore you for like a year and a half like the guy rout six no I I again I I forth coming to all you that's why I came to you guys and I said it was coming you know I reached out to the neighbors to make sure it was no issue and you know we'll figure it out now I do we kind of I like to do a haunted
umed house Trail at the farm so that would be something that we would like to figure out there needs to be a permit for that as well the whole permit process is not tied to the zoning regulation the zoning regulations don't talk about this permit process we need we have regulations that allow you to do something now I think the town likes to know what you're doing so that if there's going to be a traffic concern or anything like that they can make arrangements for it but but that's that doesn't tie into our zoning regulations allowing you to do those kind of things and the only way our regulations get better is when we find a hole in them we go out and Bas heavy B okay having going to move on to new item 6B solo panels at the school Celeste if you want to say anything about hat yes hold on let me just can you hear me okay yes all right all right here I am hi thank you so this is this is an initiative by the board we this was brought before us by a former Board of Board of Ed member Steve fuss who has since resigned from the board but we've been trying to get this application approved through we've been working with Titan energy and we were in a lottery to get
some assistance and after several tries we were finally us selected so you know we'd like to proceed with this it would be definitely cost saving for the school which in turn would be cost-saving for the town it's in front of you what I had sent to you M to to you Jed was the Power service agreement basically it would basically be no cost to the school and and no cost to to the town to to install these solar panels so I think in front of you you also have the picture of where the the panels would be placed and according kind of to our I
just miss and let me ask the commission members if they have seen this because I can't remember if I sent it out you know it was so late breaking that we decided to try and add it agenda that I didn't but I do think John is able to share a SC screen and maybe call up the picture that has preliminary layout on it from that document I sent you via email today and I apologize for not sending it out to the rest of the commission with with all the there was there were a lot of Boogie Parts trying to get ready for toight no I I I understand you have a lot on your agenda John can you share and do that and Mar do we need to let him do that or John you got this is Amendment document yep it was what can you see my screen don't see anything in it yet we do see your screen but it's black okay all right I had this problem last night okay there we go you got it yep that's it all right so Celeste tell me where to
go so if you just just if you just scroll up John keep going you keep keep going keep going right there right there so that's the satellite picture of the property the the first picture so that's how it looks now and then this is the preliminary layout so you can see they're they're looking to put the panels basically kind of over where like the middle of the school is if you're looking like to the left that that would be the the gym yep so that middle part right there where it starts that's kind of the middle of the school
and then it would come over yep and then come over to the school and then that bigger part where you kind of have your your cursor yep right there thank you is the the cafeteria yep and then and then the kind of the upper part the the the kind of the back part of the school up there so they're they're flat panels and again with the help of superintendent Bruno who's here with us this evening and kind of her research on this it would appear that we we would be within the the zoning RS and you know we'd like to move on this there is a time frame to it Titan energy is looking to get you know autographs on on this so I appreciate Mr Larson putting this on so early to kind of help us out with at these are all roof mounted yes so you it'll be essentially fled with the the do I was just looking the r the only thing I can see in in the r that's specific is can't exceed 35 ft then and and these wouldn't the the high point there you right at the left hand side of the picture doesn't have solar panel on it and that might be a little
problematic but where they've got the solar panels is all at least to my eye well under 35 correct so I know the town supports solar panels I think it's a good idea there might be some you know bugs out there I know you sent a letter to the board of Selectmen asking for some feedback on it and you know as we mentioned might need a building permit or or something like that I don't know but as far as compliance with our regulations I didn't see any CH shoppers out there home look like it's permitted as of right I'm just looking at 42.3 a Mr attorney Branson I'm sorry could you just repeat that one more time I
said I I just took a look at the regulation it seems to be permitted as of right in all zones okay so so does that mean that we would not need a permit no you would need a zoning per gym house you need a zoning permit a building permit and probably an electrical permit but you wouldn't need need to come to commission okay okay so perance okay okay okay so then I guess just what's the forgive me what what's the next step so do I get your blessing on this and then then we go from there or I don't know Valerie you want to take over no I just wanted to Jim I just wanted to let you know and I did write down for us to to look at but we have the singlephase electrical and the plan is to continue with the single phase electrical so would we require
a permit if we're not changing our electrical yes you would I'm not the building off but I'm I'm certain that the building official would would answer that question in the affirmative okay thank you okay so but anyhow that was the picture I wanted to say show and I thought it looked like it's going to work as far as from zoning and any of the Commissioners here have any questions for either or Valerie at this point and and I apologize I I didn't have my pen handy when you said so we would would need a building an electrical and what was the other permit zoning zoning permit yeah so you're definitely need material sheets from the whoever makes the product and you should be able to work with the vendor and get whatever you it's confusing terminology I know I
get confused on difference between zoning permit and Zoning applications so it doesn't surprise me that term I mean you'll be working with a contractor okay right right and they would probably get all of these okay okay all right yeah so these are fairly complex applications for a fairly large commercial solar so your Titan energy will handle all that once you have contract documents signed then you turn that all over to them they're responsible for Ping all the paperwork they're going to need basically permits from zoning they're going to need permits for the building official and it will also require regulatory approval by the utility company that will likely be biggest delay the town could probably approve that fairly quickly you might wait a couple months before the utility company will sign off on that but that that's okay okay there sorry I was a bit scattered I was trying to put my daughter to bed and I knew the moment you would say we were up was right when I was trying to put her to bed so I apologize if I seemed a little scattered so thank you thank you again for putting it on the agenda I appreciate it okay yep good night thanks next item up is the approval of the minutes public hearing held August 20th and regular meeting held August 20th now make a motion to approve the minutes as comments okay hearing none call for a vote and Scott
hello y say I hi yes I I thought I was unmuted I had a couple of small changes before we vote oh okay that think I have to find minut and they my files Go ahead Le the public hearing not Katherine huton was present at the public hearing but not also at the regular meeting okay so your thought was we needed to include her in a attendance somewhere like for public present right up there at the top yeah for the public hearing okay got it oh and I think under the regular meeting minutes under 5c it's just a slight misspelling I think it's meant to say applicant who 5c applicant it says application Who was appointed I think it's meant to say applicant Who was appointed will be
up for re-election Etc yeah it should be a period there oh so do would say submission received from Patrick D Donley and Andreas Alis period application applicant who is Appo applicant who is appointed will be up for re-election November 2025 okay very good anything else the yes just there's no time given for the end of the meeting probably not a big deal but we usually say adjourned at such and such a time you know when it was no yeah there was no time motion yeah I think only normally I'll calculate it but I think because there was an executive session I couldn't figure out what time it was to lateer and then I just have a question if we're done with that the the time I don't remember what time it was under 11c Town planner where it says nothing further Scott psan reviewed meeting with Builder and Eric Anderson regarding Bunker Hill Road my recollection was that Scott Eric my recollection is that Eric had mentioned a property on Bunker Hill Road at some point in the meeting without naming it and then later on Scott asked where that was so I'm I just don't think there was a SC I don't think there was a review of a meeting with a builder was
there help me Le I'm having a hard time finding in the minutes where you're talking okay I asked about the meeting that Eric had with the building really the meeting Jim had Builder I just stuck my nose in there because I saw chatting somebody interesting so that need to be which property it was and I'm just I this just to me reads like there wasn't meeting which Eric may have met with somebody I think he didn't end up naming the property I just read this as saying that Scott reviewed something for us and I think Scott had questioned where the property actually was that's all just a distinction there Beach property on bu Hill Road that was going to be somebody was looking at buying it and Jim had talked about the fact that there there was a lot of his time to went into working with the guy on possibilities here okay and so so all I did was entence I mean if Eric has anything to add later on tonight it would be interesting if this talk went anywhere I'm just making a distinction now about you know how much was actually
discussed last month that was that was all I had okay so I will revise my motion to be make a motion to approve the minutes as amended to reflect the fact that Katherine Hutchinson was there for the public hearing under paragraph 52 C it says submission forceed for Patrick D Don dley and Andreas Paul hus period applicant who is appointed will be up for reelection November and then we will eliminate the sentence Scott foran red meeting with Builder and Eric Anderson regarding Booker and as far as putting the time in that we adjourned by mistake and probably not worth going back into reviewing the the thing to fix it so three no probably not four Corrections there okay so that's as Amendment any other discussion I'll call for a vote Ian I Scott I thean I Patrick I and I vote I as well motion to accept minut as amended as next up is corespondence and administrative reports Jim no correspondence administrative reports on have a few ongoing enforcement actions still working with gentlemen in Pine R Drive trying to resolve that matter I did Issue a season assist to 580 Lake Road the owner of 580 Lake Road the business being Benjamin Franklin for doing really site work without permission without a revised site plan and that just went out I'm also Al kind of dealing with
proliferation of of road signs which I believe I'm I'm going to have to come up with a way to handle those we tend to be I noticed that lately too so I hope to have a solution for that problem I I have something in mind I was actually going to share it with Eric signs you mean political advertising signs no business business signs I not not in front like at the end of Lake Road there's there's four or five signs you know off off premise signs they're not related to not Dollar General how like people advertising for power washing and yes that thing so on eron Road and Lake Road there's on the utility pole house Wasing that's another issue I don't know what Authority I have on that our regulation say you don't put them on utility that's pretty much except that I don't want to do not I'm not climbing a ladder on six another Zeo that that we represent took a pry bar and and duct taped it to like a broomstick something so he can just reach up there I didn't see the St out you not too long ago gathered upside they just got their little vehicle yeah I did have a conversation with the the Public Work Director who said he would be happy to hold these signs if I want to if I notify the folks and tell them that the sign is at the public works department does he have to do that no some of these nice but you don't some of these signs are cheap some of them are not you know some of them are if they if I checked with
with one of the kerma attorneys the the Town Municipal Municipal Insurance folks and they said if there are these cardboard things that have minimal value you just throw them out if it's like an eong A platum sign maybe cost 50 or 100 bucks then you should probably say it's you know it's I have it it's available but the little paper ones or or cardboard ones if you want to you just Chu them I do I signs on the highway they're gone very quickly what hey're on their property they're going was up tel no the problem is when the state Ms those things are so the god to get off the mower for each one of them and go get it and get it out of his way what does moving before we moow if you get one of those things wrapped around our boom flil mower it's quite a bit of work to extract the metal they're pretty
careful about that because they have to John I don't well I would just want to recap U the fact that we had last Thursday evening a public information session on the plan of conservation development that a number of the Commissioners attended and I appreciate that I I thought it went quite well and I think it's it is a good point to sort of kick off the discussions for our next phase of writing the plan and I can work with with you Mr chair and and Eric on sort of scheduling I would say listening sessions at upcoming Planning and Zoning meetings based on the six topical areas that we've identified I think we could probably start with I would think housing complete streets or conservation and if Hank is still there Hank expressed interest in in having Conservation Commission come and and speak with Planning and Zoning about their goals so I would suggest we invite one of these groups to the next to the next Planning and Zoning meeting Hank is not here but I'm sure he is well along the path of having his chapter ready to go so yeah oh yeah I think we start with the complete streets okay so Eric we can work on can work on that discussion for next time I know you got that pretty
good shap that's and I actually have something for the the lays on with d Wetland you know Joe reported that that he is satisfied with the changes over on 70 fine Ridge Drive where they got the stuff out of the neighbors the fill out of the neighbor property over there and redirected the runoff and and he considers that matter close so that's that mission discussion or miscellaneous any anything else we need to be talking about toight yeah Patrick I've recently been asked to rejoin the economic Economic Development commission and I was double-checking to see if I should swear into the town hall or as previously I was appointed as member and
I had taken time off due to work now I've been asked to rejoin is that necessary to swear back into that yep okay and I'll do that we have a special meeting tomorrow and then the other question is should I reach out to Mr Fitch for any other Assistance or is he all set with working with the planning his Zon I think John is g to reach out to him and we'll let him work on that a little bit to to see where we head there's good models for right that out there meaning as as a task for the economic development correct right that that would be aside from Planning and Zoning but I wanted to check with you and see there's any conflicts of interest or anything if if you get information from a future applicant it could it could disqualify you from voting on so safer safer not too okay and if he comes to the economic development commission say same thing you can you can listen
just you don't want to say anything mayy determin is predetermination correct future a future fair enough thank you and attorney grants in terms of since you're considering changing the regulations in the industrial Zone potentially allow other uses like venues would you want the economic development commission to wait in on that is that's something where obviously you have the final the zoning commission has the authority to make the regulations but that might be something that might be a role for the EDC to at least go Pine no that that's a good idea they they certainly always got the ability to with the public hearing that we're going
to have but associated with any CH on what we're working on I think I said probably okay do we get an application then we're not allow to talk about it do we get to public hearing any other discussion topics one just sort of by way of introductions a WR word those of you who have been around for a few decades know that I'm very protective of my clients okay I am happy to work with anyone on developing a regulation or concept I always have samples but I'm not going to sit here when someone accuses you of being anti-
business when you're not and when he just builds a stage with no permits and start concert with no permits I think he knew better so that that was that's why I reacted I'm not g to let somebody attack you without responding it's just the way I appreciate thanks any other public comments and I guess Katherine you're the only one only one remaining from the public yes thank you very much I have nothing to add okay thank you for hanging in there next you're welcome next meeting date venue October 15 location to be determined I think we will be back to zoom only this what what do people think about this year I you know came over it work that was that was a win not opposed to that find it's so much easier to be able to share with people and talk with people it is it is nice to get together and talk a little bit why the weather's okay I'm not approach to that but again you know anybody wants to shoot me an email with the what your preferences are if you don't want to talk about it here I'm interested in that but you know zoom's been working pretty easy if we can make this easy too my goal is eventually to get into the community Senior Center but we're not not quite there yet so we'll let you know where we're
going to be even then we might change it at the very last minute it yeah there's no internet weel how do we handle the closing of the building this building if we get out by 9:30 that's when the janitor leaves the W out of the door lock shut so Mr chair this is kathern Hutchinson again if I may I would appreciate it and I'm sure many of us do would that if for the time being they could at least remain hybrid Co is still a threat to those of us who are in u the category that we really have to worry if we get it on my situation of course being a very senior person so it's just very nice to have and I appreciate the opportunity to participate without having to actually come to the physical meeting and I think you know it would either be a hybrid or a zoom only because of that very reason and I know John's got a long commute to get here and you know there's there's other people that might come in to provide assistance and it's just an efficient use of time it's too too easy to do but I do like talking to all you folks in person too that's kind of nice as well well it would be nice to be there in person but sometimes we have to make Health choices so I really appreciate being able to do it remotely again thank
you so my last comment is you won like John said I I appreciate as many people from play zoning showing up at our information session it was a was a nice crowd but primarily thanks to Planning and Zoning commission and the Conservation Commission I guess we had all of the Economic Development commission there as well so they were perfect attendance too want to thank Eric for working to get the get the building ready it was a little TCH and go last Thursday I wondered I be able to do it there I want to thank in for you know setting up here tonight that and helping us out and appreciate the school letting us do that and I appreciate all of you guys staying engaged and you know there's there's actually a lot of sort of mey issues going on right this minute and I need need the input from all of you so and next month if we want to use this building again we can be back in the library Which is less echoing yeah had the book fair set up the chairs huh big are the chairs like they're more comfortable in fact they're pushing so I make a motion to adjourn at 9:18 for second second okay thank you Patrick any destion all in favor I Mo
pass is I thank you everybody then