Thank you, John. I put that at the top of my agenda because I do use that. That works good. We'll call the public hearing to order. And tonight we're continuing the public hearing from July 15th. The application of Michael Heckler, 71 Bizola Road, Andover, for a special permit with site improvements to operate a homebased landscape business and construct a two-bay garage attached to existing dwelling and existing two- bay garage that is proposed to be converted to a workshop space. The application request is made per section 4.12A2 Rowan 4 and section 23 in the end over zoning regulations. So at this point I was going to turn over to you Mike to brief us on what new information you've had since the last night you were together. I mean, new information was just all the stuff I had to now include. and a couple other things I had to update on the the plan for pretty much the water where the water was going to go drainage. where
dry well in the basement.
Yeah. And then where new sediment and erosion control would be for that as well. Now, were you able to keep those clear of the septic system by how many feet?
Gee, a lot.
over 50.
Oh, yeah.
You want me to put something up on the screen, Ryan?
We're looking at easily. John, can you give me control so I can share or do you want to go to the Heckler application in PNZ and bring up the site
and review 81325.
you should be you should be able to do it, Wayne. But I can I can
Okay. Wayne,
excuse me. Just hit reclaim host. No, you don't need to reclaim the host. Anyone can share.
Oh, yeah. You can just share. Hit the share button.
Okay.
Share screen. It's the bottom center.
It goes. Yeah, we only have two options here. It's either Yeah. In or out.
So,
you can't control minus or control plus.
Yes. What are they talking talking about? That drywall.
Yeah. So, that the drywall over to the left, I think DW right there. And then
yeah, you want me to go? Well, why don't we start where the where the proposed structure is going to be?
Right there. 30 and 42.
30 by 42 connected to
the existing what's now going to be a workshop. the 22 by 24 and the residence which is this 58
26 there
and then there's the septic down there
septic is down below
hich is I would say probably 120 ft away
I think about 70 at least
I don't recall but I know it's less than 100
yeah because if you use the science of the happened to this?
Well, looking at the drawing, the septic tank is 26 ft from the house and leeching fields are another 67 ft from the septic tank. So, you add them together round numbers 80 something feet.
Okay. So, yeah, because the question I had was if we need to have this relooked by the sanitarian. It has been looked at by the sanitary. Okay. if he's taken
we we have a we have a B100A
okay
from E from East Independence
and was that posted online?
Yeah, that's that's part of the package. It's in there.
What else you want to show them, Ryan? I mean,
did we get did we get the list of equipment?
Yes. Is that
's posted to come on why is that revised architecture topographic I didn't see I didn't see it you know and oh I just want to make sure that's part of the public Which one are we talking about? The list of equipment. The
I know I was in the office when u can't remember her name when she sent it off. Okay, I am going to switch screens now. I hope. Stop. Share. Share. unless there's something else you gave me. I mean, not Michael.
oh, that was it.
This is what you gave me, which was in response to my letter to you asking for information. Yes. So,
yep.
And the previous memo to the last time which was going to be asked which covers everything.
So, Two dump trucks, one in the process of being sold, one Ram pickup, one Tesla, one mini excavator, one
Morpark
Morbark wood chipper, and two 16 ft equipment trailers. those are going to be outside, right?
Correct. Yep. And under the business name
and and how they're going to dump trash. they are one of them is $2599 so just under CDL they're six wheelers all of them or the two of them and then one of them is 35,000 so they're under you know your 60 or 70,000 lb threshold that the town has
both are six wheeled
both are six wheel
so one's like a sixyard
yeah one's a six and one's an eight slash9 or So 135,000. Yep.
It's a municipal heavy spender.
126.
Yep.
26K and 35K. And so where will the two trailers go? the trailer will usually be attached to the dump truck. and then either either or my Morbar or my Mini will be attached on on the trailer. Obviously Morbark is a is a trailer type unit. So you pull that. So that would either be depending on what fits. Obviously I haven't seen the garage with everything in it yet obviously. But what size is that chipper? What? Huh? Maybe what inch
the chipper? it's probably a good 12 ft long. No. What size wood goes in it? Oh. Oh. Oh. 16. That's big chipper. Police size chipper.
It's an ex municipal. How many tires? How many actuals on the chipper? 16 ft foot trailer. Is that total length or is that what it can hold? That's what it hold.
So they're longer than 16.
Usually they're I would say like with the neck they're like what 19 or so by like what eight or nine? standards usually seven. And then the mini esavator is £11,000. Is all that stuff on your property now? Uhhuh. The square footage of all that stuff. Well, it spread out pretty well. Two acres spreads out pretty good. The mini excavator is currently on a job site, but that doesn't take more than 10 foot square foot.
And you said that would normally be Well, last time you said that was going to be on a trailer park. Correct.
Yeah. When it's not on a job site, it would be in a garage.
But you have to put one of the trailers in the garage, can't stand it.
Correct. One of the one of the trailers would be attached to a truck with the mini on it. So, where is all this stuff right now? So, if you're looking at my property, there's two driveways. There's a a regular driveway. Do you want to pull up the map?
I still regular driveway I have next to it is an easement. Behind that, I have a little dirt pile that my freight liner, the 35,000 lb, is sitting on. And then my Tesla I park in the yard because I have to charge it. So, I park it next to the house where charge cable is. And then the other driveway, I have both trailers. And then the Kodiak, which is the 25 26,000lb truck, is parked right in front of one of the trailers. the Morbark is right next to those trailers. So, it's trailer. my Dodge is in the driveway. Isn't there a lot of grade in the back of your house? I mean from the front to the back it's a 40 foot drop.
I looked at toe map
gradual. Yeah. behind so about 15 ft behind my drive or behind my garage it starts to drop and then I would have to do some some decent retaining for the back of the the new garage.
The new building. Yeah. What's going to happen to that? And how are you going to get into the building? Where's the entrance to that? the front in the in the front off the road. Yeah. So, there's there's two doors front. So, Liam, why don't you pull up the the picture of the building? Want the architectural picture? Okay. I thought a new architectural building picture. Yeah. Is that Isn't that the the old garage?
No,
that's the new garage. That's the new one.
Well, we'll show it so we can make sure there's no confusion what we're talking about here.
There's one with like a lean to on the left. The lean to is the existing workshop. It's the doors are moved. So, you're going to drive in between your house and your garage now. Correct. So, the house is to the right. The new proposed garage is attached to the house. The lean to is existing existing garage. What I have right now now proposed as a workshop. the doors are going to be removed so that it's now a two vehicle garage in total for the property. Senator, does it does it say up there that this was revised on 814?
Yeah, at the top there.
Okay. So, I guess I missed seeing that updated drawing.
Yeah, you would ask to remove the doors.
Yep. Oh, I got it.
And it has all the dimensions wanted to So I was not able to prepare myself in a satisfactory manner for tonight because I didn't know where the answers to all those questions were. I was looking for a new document then go back look at all the old ones again
and then I didn't see this.
yeah, this was uploaded as soon as soon as we got it.
Yeah.
Okay. But that wasn't in the packet. if you sent out some stuff to the commissioners and said, you know, here's a bunch of stuff for this and it was
I just sent the link to the to the online. I didn't send all the attachments and I made sure to put a revision date on them to distinguish them for everything else that was in there. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff in there. Okay. Anyhow, so Scott, that's that's the photo of the garage between the current garages.
I'd like to see where all this stuff is going to be parked. I can't imagine a Freight Liner. Have you ever seen a Freight Liner? 30 to 8,000 lb Freight Liner and a Kodiak. So, it's like a 6,500.
Yeah. Huge trucks.
Yep. So, that's why the doors are 14 ft high.
And two and two trailers, 16 foot trailers. So, they're really longer than that by by 20 by 9.
Yeah. two of them up to more black chipper which would take up most of this area over here.
Did you consider renting a space in an industrial park or we're dumping more than I can see I pulled up the picture on Google to see what the house in the garage look like now. And I can see how that hits what was in the middle of above the two garage doors of that little vent that's up there now.
And then you just continue the roof line up and get a nice looking plan.
Yeah. Yeah, it would definitely increase the value of all the houses around which as we know everybody likes because nobody fights the town when they come and get appraised.
So that's is like a attic up above the new part.
No, that's just a light.
Just a light.
just a I'm sorry, not a light. Not just a window. Window window. Yeah.
And just to make the commission aware, this architectural plan does not include a second floor. Yeah.
Right. That's it.
So, u So, it's not Yeah. All the equipment won't fit in the garage.
You got those two big trailers that'll most likely be outside.
Yeah. I'll fit what I can for obviously two vehicles, but I'm not I can't fit.
You're selling them.
Yeah. I'm selling the Kodiak.
So, the Kodiak is gone. It's those are 14 foot high doors. At least most of his stuff's going to be off the road.
Yeah. So, it'll definitely increase the value. Yeah. So, any house? It's just residential and lighter.
It is. Yeah.
It's way up at like the end of that, right?
Yeah. It's like I I remember talking with Wayne. It's like a different It's a different code on the on the maps. It's not like your lakefront.
You're right.
Lake district, but you're in zone C.
Yeah. Which is still the farthest away.
Yeah. And and the only thing that has to do is how much nutrient allocation
remediation. It doesn't have anything to do with no
any of the regulations at all.
No, they're all the same. so the only thing that could make a difference about being in the Lake District is, you know, there's something in in there that talks about as of right, you've got a twocar garage and
no more. You can't modify or attach to a existing what they call it? It's it's accessory building. You can't modify accessory buildings without obviously permits
or special permits in the lakes zone specifically. and this would be getting rid of the accessory and becoming part of the principal structure all al all together. Section 14.2 talks about a building attached to the principal building by a current passageway or having a common part of a wall shall be considered an integral part of the principal structure and not an accessory building. That's if I can make this bigger or not. But it's still an accessory use. Okay. So then you the other thing I was looking to see was the checklist. You the requirement that the checklist be reviewed
with Wayne and Wayne agrees. There's the checklist. Nice. actually went over it line by line with Michael on the 13th and I think we got it. Okay. So, this might be the first time you've gone through one of the checklist where it says very first checklist
aff approval over there. You know, I was hoping to see something that said you agreed with all of Mike's assessments on what was NA, what he had, that sort of thing.
That's what my signature is.
That's what my scribble there in my initial initial.
Okay.
Is that an approval?
What is
initial? That's an approved that
's a an acknowledgement that I have reviewed it.
Okay.
And you agreed with it?
I reviewed it with Michael. I I do agree with it. Yes.
Okay. I'll put that on the record then. And did we have a letter requesting any waiverss to any of the requirements? I'm officially asking for a A2 survey requirement. Wave.
Okay. And did you send us a letter? Do we have a letter for that?
No, we do not.
Far as I know, I have to just do it on on the
closest thing we have.
Yeah. record. Where's the CA2? I believe I I believe I did put that in writing that you need to ask for the waiver and I did tell them verbally. Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't have to be any hard that just there's two different places in here. There's only four things for the application for a home occupation. One of them is any waiverss requested by the applicant should be submitted in writing not record.
Yeah, I was I was under the
Yeah,
we can wait there.
Okay. I think with what you've got, we can do that. It's always a learning process for me as we go through these things
as it is for me.
Hopefully, you would have to do it o survey. It's in there.
is there a regulation that says that?
There is under general provisions 23.2H 2 H. The commission may upon written request of the applicant wave the submission of information set forth in section 23 2B1 through6 site plan which are not required in order to determine compliance with the criteria set forth in this section. So it's it's very clear and and in fact we did that you know with the pickle ball court we did not
he K2 survey as I recall and and the reason was that Christine submitted you in writing the request to wave Okay. So, that that was the information that I was wanting to make sure we got into public record. Well,
okay. Do you have anything else that you wanted to add on that wing?
both me and Joe Wagner spent some time with Michael
the 13th.
When was that? That was last week. Like Wednesday or Thursday last week.
Monday.
going over the site plan. Joe had some suggestions pecifically around the drywall that Michael incorporated in in the last minute at the last minute. but Joe did he was put on the zoning the the zoning permit application for his sign off and he signed he has signed off on it.
I'm just wrestling with
is is this is a bit crude, but I had asked Michael to do some math.
Yep. in reference to a two-inch rain event, how much water that would generate from the new roofs. And this is what he submitted.
Well, I thought that looked reasonable.
Yeah, it's he's done the math as far as 2 in and how many cubic feet and done some calculations. I think in the interest of full disclosure, there is an existing a pre-existing catch basin
on his property that is somewhere up near where the bus turnaround is. Correct?
Yes, between the bus turnaround and my driveway. It's more more so next to my driveway. the town I believe the town before I
the town installed it because of how much water from the road comes into my driveway
to help mitigate that. It dumps more so towards the fence line and if required I could u attach it to the the the drive if request requested obviously right Joe Michael and I we we had some discussions about that and I don't know if we We didn't really come up with the resolution. I I I think what we really suggested is that Michael made contact with DPW.
Yeah. Which is kind of tough right now because of the DPW director, not really being a director right now. A supervisor filling in for a director. I've already had contact with him and and it's not the easiest to schedule things, but I can do so. work that out. I'm not sure.
This of course you can't see it. It's either big or small. This was a previous site plan. This was the site plan for when they built the garage and the house prior to Michael and it has the ENS. It has the limits of wetlands and stuff like that. This is what Michael used to do his site plan. So the erosion sediment controls are going to be different than what's on on that plan.
We asked Michael to to duplicate what was done previously in the in that on that approved site plan.
Okay.
As far as ENS is concerned. Yeah. And then Joe asked him to add an additional silk fence
for the drywall
where near the outlet of of the of the dry well there so that during construction that that didn't contribute to any sedimentation. So what what's your what's your timeline schedule like of this project being that you know the the thing that I'm wrestling with is like to have the written waiver request
kind of in it know what you're asking for and all that
and get that tomorrow
but that we can't start the deliberation on your application until we close the public hearing
and after we close that there's more information was put in there.
Yeah.
Which I'd like to have that.
Okay.
So, as as much as I was hoping to wrap this up tonight, is it a huge inconvenience, any inconvenience, if we continue the public hearing till the next meeting where we just get that one piece of paper put in there, then we close it, go on.
the only problem is we're running out of hot weather, right? And you just write it. Write out that letter right now. It's a piece of paper.
Yeah, you very well do that.
Okay. Yep.
very good. That'll Okay.
Yeah.
Just the highlighted section there is the sections that you should request
relief from. How should I address it? Planning is zoning permission. How big is this line?
How big is the what?
Two two acres or something. 2.0
8. Mrs. El Lake District.
Yes.
Yeah. I think I mean you know the newest house on the lake there went over you know three ounces from J.
Yeah.
That was a few acres too.
Yeah. So you're you're going to be all right with putting two freight liners in the front yard over there, but excavator or chipper?
Well, that's what we're talking that's what we're going to talk about when we deliberate. You know, we're not to that point yet.
It's the same district.
Oh, absolutely.
There's there's another line over there the same size. I want to hold off till we close the public hearing and then we'll talk about this
Hello. You're not writing an album, Michael.
He's got he's got it here. I try.
Planning and zoning commission. And I'm Michael Eckler at 71 Bizola Road requesting a waiver of the A2 survey for the garage edition on the property. This waiver is covered under section 23.2 D1 through6. Sincerely, Michael. That's good. So that is read into the public record. We have we have it in writing. Do any of the Wayne, do you have any other questions or comments on the application at this point?
No, I do not.
Well, if you're close after sharing of the screen so we can you see who's who's and then any of the commission members have any questions for Michael at this point? Amarie,
I do not. Thank you. with the public hearing.
We're still in the public hearing. Yeah. Okay. And reas. Going back to Lean Hutchinson, do you have any questions at this point before we close the public hearing?
No, I don't.
Okay. then at time 7:41, public hearing is closed.
is it Okay, time 7:41. We will call the regular meeting to order. Roll call and seating alternates. I've got Ann, Scott, Leanne, and myself as regular members. Patrick is not here tonight. We've got alternates Ann Marie and Andreas. And I think Andreas was seated most recently. So I will seat and Marie for Patrick.
Sounds good. Thank you.
The next up is additions or changes to the agenda. Anybody have anything for that? Okay. Moving on to public speak. Anybody from the public want to make any comments on anything that's not on the agenda tonight?
Quick question. Who who do we have anything on ordinances on like horse manure being left behind?
Not that I aware.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's an issue on bear swamp. Well, there's not an ordinance. There are words about that in the, you know, section 20, I think it is, the keeping of animals where it talks about not having a nuisance with manure and that kind of stuff. So, there is something in there about that.
All right. Follow me up.
I'm curious. found something.
They just leave the manure on the road and they ride.
Oh, you're talking about the honey wagon going going back and going down wheeling and
coming up bear swarm going on the trail coming back. Just trails of horsemen all the time on the road.
Not from those horse farms there.
Probably
people out riding me riding it down the road.
Yeah. Just don't cut up.
Oh. Oh, I got you. I got you. This is proof all over.
Okay. I guess just for completion in case there's somebody out there that might be interested in why we're not talking continuing the agro tourism public hearing tonight. Mr. Fitch who's not in town. I see he's joined us remotely for a different discussion but he asked and we agreed that we would defer the future discussion on agro tourism until he could he was back available to attend a meeting and and so we put that off until next month. So that's why we didn't do anything in the public hearing section on that. The next up on the agenda is old business in the plan of conservation of development. John, I'm going to turn that over to you.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. so John Gusowski, town planner. I'm also here with my colleague Janal Clark who's been working on the plan. we are nearing the end of our initial drafting of the chapters. we have this evening and that was distributed yesterday midday. the climate change and resilience chapter which is the last substantive chapter that we're going to be proposing or or sharing with you. this is a relatively straightforward chapter in which we we the focus is basically on Andover's civic infrastructure and some of the challenges that the next decade of climate change and and you know increasing storm frequency and intensity is going to bring to the community or may bring to the community and and that we need to prepare prepare for. so there is a bit of background on that. Some of the efforts that were undertaken some of the natural resources there's there's a little bit of crossover with this chapter and the sort of the natural resources conservation chapter. we talked a little bit about some of the key
municipal facilities in town. a lot of this chapter is relies on work that was done statewide or regionally. The capital region natural hazards mitigation plan. we we draw a lot from that and talking about sort of the intersection of development of the community and its sort of natural features its its its streams particularly in Andover, but as well as the buffers that that Andover has to buffer some of the effects of climate change and things that should be protected like our large forest blocks, our protected farmlands, and our our stream corridors as all as critical to our sort of natural infrastructure and and ability to to buffer against climate related vulnerabilities. we talk we make reference to the state guidelines on soil erosion, sedimentation and storm water quality. again to to focus on both current effects and aligning our regulations and our development patterns towards increased storm frequency and intensity. And particularly in the storm water management guide which was updated last year they increased the design
storm. it used to be, you know, storm water management systems had to capture sort of the first flush, the first inch that that was increased to 1.3 in that they recommend being treated on site and and you know we recommend that you know certainly our regulations should should follow along with that. and then we talk about how you know our our particularly our roads, bridges, culverts, you know, our storm drainage infrastructure is critical because again you know there are lots of natural hazards out there but storm related flooding events norers you know like like peak peak rainstorms tend to be the most likely hazards that that Andover faces over the next decade. we talk about the particularly the one the one municipal facility that is probably at most risk that that we highlight in here is and I'm scrolling to it. Sorry. Is the town garage largely because of its location right along the the Hop River I'm sorry yeah Hop River and the and the flood plane associated with that. you know as a as a potentially vulnerable critical facility. that's something that that should be looked at. and then we get to the aims and objectives. And hopefully I should have asked initially if everyone can see this. I'm assuming you can see the screen. and then everyone has a has a copy of this. and the aims and objectives again are fairly straightforward. like continuing strategic investment, focusing on those those elements that are most vulnerable to increased storm frequency and intensity and and other climate resilience planning for municipal facilities. And then a lot of this has to do with linking because Andover obviously, you know, we're we're responsible for our
own facilities, but but we are we are part of a region. We are part of a state. we are part of a you know a multi-state area that that really sort of functions together when it comes to natural hazards. and so you know the collaboration that the organizations with resources CROG the state you know circa de department of public safety are really the the the key stakeholders and the key elements that we need to coordinate with. and then and then you know some specific action items again making investments in those critical most critical vulnerable resources following along with state resources and planning guidance documents particularly you know things like the storm water management guide where we should be you know increasing our regulations to to respond to the the guidance that are provided by these these studies and reports. continuing to prioritize the natural hazards mitigation actions. and then you know things like low low impact development, cluster development. So we are reducing our carbon footprint and our development footprints to retain sort of the natural resilience that that Andover has
and then to support the efforts of of sustainable Andover because those groups their ongoing work really tends to focus on this stuff. well, so that's a very brief overview of this. I'm happy to to answer questions or take some input on this. and I'll also note that we forwarded, I believe last Friday, the working revision of the prior chapter, the quality of life chapter, that had some significant revisions based on conversations with the school superintendent. We had very productive conversations to sort of reframe how some what some of the data was telling us about school enrollment and some of the financial decisions that
might result from that. and we also recently got Jed some some very useful comments from yourself. and we're we're incorporating those into a revised draft also. So I will stop there. I can take this screen share off unless someone wants to go through specific questions or comments. I do have a couple and
okay
I noticed well we didn't talk drought at all and it's been a couple years since we experienced
that. I was trying to think of how we would do that since everybody in Andover was on a well we were kind of on your own for drought maybe but should drought be covered in this
I think that's a probably a good idea. Yeah. I because I do think and and yes that's that of of the natural hazards that that we are facing particularly as the climate changes you know it's it's those two extremes it's it's flooding on one end and drought on the other that that I think we really need to need to think about. Yeah. on going back to the the very first page the second paragraph on the critical infrastructure you had listed the Andover Police Department and I was thinking you know we've got a resident but
I don't know that that's worth
yeah that's fair
he's got a room here in the building so with the town hall he's kind of included there.
Sure.
Then I'm surprised that we had the the library in that listing. I know we do shelters and stuff for cooling centers and that kind of stuff here and you know this we can use the school and we got the senior center but I'm not aware of any plan that we have to use the library for any of that. We'll see here, here, there.
Yeah.
And the generator's going in there, right? So, he's really beefing this up, which I think is good. But,
so I didn't I didn't think the library needed to be in that list. If they
had their heart broken because we took them out.
Well, we can we can revisit that. Yeah, they're they're they're covered in quality of life. So hopefully that's that's the the the reference they would appreciate more.
So John, what is zones of risk?
Those yellow circles right at the end last
Sure. Jan, do you want to do you want to take a stab at that a little bit?
Yeah. So essentially these were noted in the Andover annex. So essentially shared risks would be weather risks and social risks. So anywhere in these areas are associated with either flooding and then this is an area where people frequent. And so there are impacts that would not only impact the land but also the people who are in that area and that's essentially what this map is showing. and then was the most critical area noted in the regional plan. So I thought it would be important to include in this section.
Yeah. Maybe an explan explanation of what that is.
Okay. Sure. And I yeah that let's see did we cover that? I I thought there was a reference to it. Okay.
Go ahead.
I lightly touched on it, but I'll make sure to make the explanation stand out
in the action items. I was probably in there somehow, but we didn't have any action to do anything with chapter 10, which is our flood prone zone. And and I know one of the actions that we're trying to take
Yeah. Now,
is to prevent residential construction in the floodprone zone. So, I was kind of thinking that might be nice to have this is in the action items so that we can have it done. Maybe we could have an an actual map.
Oh, okay. Yeah.
Yeah, that'd be nice. That's a good idea. Yeah, we have Yes. Okay.
Well, we have it on the zoning map.
Yeah, we do. But, you know, we've got this chapter here. We got an awful lot of charge in there. I think having showing
cuz we saw flooded area.
It's probably in there and but you can't see Andover. It has I I thought that map was probably the whole Crag. Maybe it's bigger than that, but
you're right. No, that was the Crag region regional map. we have a couple
there, but yeah, you can see the Hanburg River Valley there. Yeah, we can we can we can do a we can do a zoom up a zoom in of that certainly
would be nice.
And then I also thought there should be an action to to do something to change to 1.3 in instead of the 1 in rain
for capturing. Well, you were just saying a blow up of Andover, right? Is that what you said?
Yes, it was blow that gap up to 500.
I would like to see that, too.
Yeah.
under the aims and objectives, it says continue to explore investment in public water in wastewater. Does that mean waste water, I guess, is sewers? Were we thinking we should be looking at putting public water system in?
Yeah. Well, so that's I mean, and that's that's again Yeah. that well public water is means you know like instead of private wells and wastewater would mean sewer.
right
and and yeah public water again to to to mitigate against drought and and then to also allow for increased density in certain areas rather than rather than continuous fraud.
But we didn't we we didn't hit too hard on that. I think, you know, because I think we recognize the the the challenges of cost and and density to justify, but I think it's an important conversation to continue.
Okay, that was all my comments. Any anything else? Ann,
no, you covered mine.
Scott,
Andreas,
no.
Leanne,
no.
Ambry? No.
Okay. I guess that does it then, John. Thank you.
So, yeah. So, what we'll do is we'll forward out I'll take this one, forward out a revision, and next month we're we're going to present basically the implementation. like as Jed as you've mentioned a couple of times you'd like all those action items to to you know be put into a tabular form so we can kind of track you know the progress and priority. So that'll be we'll we'll compile all of the draft chapters and add the implementation and and we'll begin to discuss that.
Okay. And if again if anyone looks at this over the next couple of weeks and realizes they wanted to add a comment or whatever, please please let me know so we can incorporate that. And I thank you for for your input. I think we're making good progress.
Next up is new business action on planning zoning permit 251 special permit application for Michael Hecart. So, we've got the information, you know, I think Michael has certainly done a great job trying to deliver everything we've asked. U, there there was a lot of stuff that that I think we we've gotten it there. the the question I I wrestle with a little bit and is, you know, and I think what Scott was alluding to. you when does a home business get to be bigger than a home business? I think that was your comment, wasn't it, Scott?
Yes, I guess. And
that takes up all the square footage in that lot. I'm sorry. Or a lot of it.
It is. And certainly certainly go over the diesel, all the oil collection of that, all that kind of stuff in the the Lake District. I mean, we before we've talked about people having their trucks overnight, how many gallons of fuel they have. Now we're talking about having, you know, excavators to, you know, it's in there in the Lake District.
Yeah. People have three, four trucks in there.
They're not supposed to, Andreas,
but they are there. I think I commend him for building this proposing to build this building which will then hold these vehicles instead of having them outside. Yeah.
And most of them will be inside which I think is a great idea.
Yeah. He's trying to make the place look better. I mean
he's going to sell one of his trucks, right? So
I mean you know he's you're pretty
he lives at the very top of the Lake District. It's not even I mean I get it. his district, but he's trying to clean up, you know. So, it's I think his intentions are good and he's going to put a nice addition to his house, improve everybody's property value, maybe increase their taxes. I don't know.
Yeah, one of the trucks is not being used because one of them is to replace
the one that I obviously have is under the company, so I have to list them. yep. But but Scott's, you know, got a point that we do and I have not reviewed through that. It talks about storing if if you have the fuel tank on a truck.
Yep.
And do you have one of those?
So I reviewed it.
Yeah, it's it's in the he he put the numbers in the
in response to my questions. the dump trucks have 60 gallon tanks, pickup 28 gallon fuel tank. The excavator and chipper have 16 gallon tanks.
Okay. On them. But is there another external tank that you have now?
Three tanks.
I can put it on the screen if you want.
Nope. as long as you know we've we've gone through because you know there are some limitations on that in
yeah I I know I know the verbiage says you know you can't have over a certain amount of fuel capacity on a vehicle and I I frankly think that's very old standard compared to most vehicles nowadays I mean you buy a a 3500 you know Chevy pickup truck it's going to have 30 40 gallon tank which is over what the town allows the lake district. One pickup truck, you're already out.
They're already they're only talking about additional storage. Those regulations.
Okay. Okay.
And Andrea, I want to some be very clear about this. Okay. At the lake, there's lots that are two acres that are right on the lake front. Now,
I used to live there.
Yeah. I live on extension west. So quick the it is in the Lake District the so here's here's what's allowed and this this talks about special permit uses in the ARD and handover lake district. So it combines all the residential places. Smaller scale business where all work activity takes place offsite. Administrative services make take place at the dwelling. Vehicles and equipment are stored at the dwelling. So so again we're you you get into a discussion of is it a smaller scale business or larger scale business. if they were in the special permits in the business and industrial zone the same area it says larger scale business where the majority of the activity takes place offsite but accounting vehicles and equipment is stored at the dwelling so those are the two things you certainly got you got a lot of stuff there I I don't know where that line is between large and small
I know you had a question about that prior.
Yeah.
That's why this is just a part-time, you know, I work for the town of Vernon.
Yep.
Full-time.
so this I mean there's no possible way I could make it a full-time or a a large scale. And if I did make it a large scale, you know, let's say I hired people, whatot, I would have more equipment than you're right, Scott, than my lot could hold. At that point, I would be forced to rent out something or buy a different property or or whatever it may be. But at this point, vehicles that need to be inside to shelter them from, you know, creating more problems to the property, you know, whether it be hydraulic leaks, because that naturally happens, diesel fuel leak, because that naturally happens, oil leaks, that naturally happens with any vehicles. keeping them inside, keeping it contained by concrete is much safer than dirt.
Yeah. So,
so
I agree.
But I did struggle a little bit with the, you know, the letter you submitted to us that talked about, you know, the appropriateness and and it says the garage workshop will have no commercial activity such as customer visits or on-site operations. Got that? Storage of equipment is consistent with residential use of my property and complies with handover zoning regulations including section 4.6 4.8 which does talk about trailers and that but I don't know what that has to do with the home occupation. I probably equipment is used offsite to generate income is stored on my property only when not as use so that doesn't count for the size of the business is essentially
we struggle with that a little bit we have we have a lot of gray area that is we can you know sort that out for ourselves there but but that's how u I I think when when you're talking about the equipment that is part of your business, even though you're only doing the the bookkeeping in that in a small portion of the house there.
Yeah.
But of course, it's not like I'm selling trucks, buying trucks.
I got you.
Yep. So,
I promise for that. So, Leanne, did you have any questions or comments for the commission at this point?
I have a question, but I'm not sure how to formulate it. So, can you circle back to me in a minute and I'll keep thinking?
Yep. Okay. And Marie, we'll give you a chance. no. It looks like he did his homework. I don't have any questions. Thank you.
Okay. I can't remember if we gave you a shot in or not. I We've been talking about some of this stuff here, but
well, something that's maybe not related is I'm just thinking how did the lake district go so far out from the lake at various points? I I don't know how that
Well, so I don't know how we came up with that exact footprint either.
It's the drainage.
You would No. Well,
it's the watered the drainage area.
I would have thought that the lake district would have been the watershed.
The wershed is bigger than the lake district.
It's I don't know why those two don't line up. They don't. And
if the land district was bigger than the waterershed, I'd have a problem with that. But since it's a little bit smaller and it's it's you know quite big and that's why our nutrient allocation stuff for Lake District goes outside the Lake District to to cover the watershed a little bit. but that's that's as much as I got of an answer there. Well,
otherwise I have no no problems with this plant. The other thing that you know once once we build once we allow this huge garage to be built there you there there's going to be nothing here that says if if he moves out and expands the business and goes someplace else you we're not obviously going to tear down the garage. So that is part of the Lake District forever more. I know there's some other inconsistencies in the Lake District that I don't know how we got to where we are, but the we are where we are and and what he's asking for doesn't seem inconsistent with that.
Wayne, you have anything else for us at this point? No, I'm leaving it up to the commission. You are I'm just tired.
John, you got any thoughts for us here?
no, I I think I'm with Wayne on this one. yeah, I do and I think Jed, your point is well taken that this is, you know, once it's once it's built, it's going to be there for, you know, a period of of 30, 40, 50 years. but you know I I my sense is he's he's you know given given the appropriate thought to to both resource protection in terms of spillage drainage the lake and and the character of the community based on his design. So, yeah, I I'm okay with it.
Large, it's not a tiny tiny lot of the large.
And so, one of the things that we do get to do with the special permit is we get to take into consideration, you know, the the characteristics of the lot, which for the Lake District 2acre lot, that's a pretty good size lot. There are other ones. There are some that are bigger than that at Lake District, but you know, it's not like an eighth of a an acre that we have down, you know, on the lake itself. The other thing that's sort of unique to where Mike is is that it's kind of almost at the end of the road. There's not a lot of traffic that's going by Mike's house to to see the stuff that's out there. And I do think that the neighbors appreciate the fact that we're reducing the amount of stuff that's laying around and hopefully it looks nice and neat and all that kind of stuff when we get to where we want to go here. There is one letter of support in the file.
Yep. I I saw that and I'm sure that's the guy who's tired of looking at all the stuff parked outside at this point. She's really nice. All that stuff is going to be put in that garage. Huh?
Not everything.
It's It's not. But it's certainly going to be cleaner and neater than it is now.
Yeah. Then and I don't think we we have ever required all the equipment from a home occupation to be in a garage.
Well, I know that when with a home occupation, if there's extra parking, it has to be screened from the neighbors. I I think from walking by the house up there there there is some pretty well. Yeah. I don't know particularly about that. People park on a road. We're actually parking on Lake Road constantly. Not far from your house. You know, literally. You know which house I'm talking about?
The women that crash into the cars almost every time.
Yeah. Me, too. She parked his car right under doesn't
He doesn't Yeah. Got a little
cube thing.
Yeah. Cube thing that he puts his really old SUV or whatever that English SUV that he's got over there. These guys.
No, I wasn't even talking about that. I was talking about
another one. Yeah, there's a few of them
talking a little farther down.
Yes, I almost hit him.
That's either here or there. Yeah, that's probably grandfathered in before we
probably how how you can have a house without a driveway. I don't know. But that's not that's not what we're talking about.
Okay. So, I think
Jen more.
Somebody had a comment. Oh, Leanne. Yes, we were gonna circle back to Leanne. So,
yes. Were you finished? I was just going to comment, but I wasn't sure if you were finished. If
I'm pretty close to getting finished, go ahead.
I just have a procedural question for you or Wayne or someone. I believe there was an application before ZBA from this applicant. Is there any relationship between that and this application, this public hearing application?
there probably is and I will try to explain that point to the best of my ability. And so, Mike initially put in, he was going to build the garage that we looked at with two stories and all that stuff. And the zoning the zoning agent disapproved that for a couple of reasons. one at least what's written written in the write up from the the ZBA that I read it talked about I can't remember if it addressed the the issue of a twocar garage you know or not and this was going to be more than a twocar garage and I had come through the the issue where you can have a twocar garage as a right in the Lake District. It's silent on the special permit maybe that allows you to have more than that. But I think because it talks about as of right if it's brought forward in a special permit, it could be. And that is not what Mike did initially. he was not going the special permit route.
There was some discussion about auxiliary accessory use, not accessory building, but accessory use. And it's in the same spot in the definition. the garage square footage was so much bigger than the house square footage and the if if the home business is going to be accessory to the principal use which is his dwelling there that would infer that the accessory use should be smaller and that's where Mike took took a different point of view and said oh but all this storage stuff isn't really the business the business is my desk where we do the bookkeeping and that I'm not sure Can I buy that one way or another? But that was part of the discussion then. And then the third piece that I didn't see written up in any of the discussion, but was really germanine is I didn't put in a special permit for the home occupation that he needed. And clearly by our regulations for what he's asking for, he needs a special permit. So he was denied because he did not have a special permit application in which one of those you know which how all that boiled out I don't know but you take all those things into account and
the ZBA upheld the zoning enforcement officer's decision that he couldn't do what he asked to at that point in time. That's why Mike came back to it with a special permit because that that is allowed in our regulation by special permit. there could be some concern about the architectural blending in with the neighborhood of the big garage next to the smaller house. that's that's what we as the commission get to decide on on do we think this is a good thing to do or not a good thing to do and u that be that but that's what I took away because I was very reluctant to come and support something that the zoning enforcement officer had already turned down and the ZBA had turned down without understanding why it was they did that because you know that's they were operating in their purview here and I think by covering the different items with a special permit I think that that answers that allows us that latitude that the zoning enforcement officer or the ZBA neither one of them had. So that's my my thought on go
through that
and I would point out that in my conversations with attorney grants that the ZBA the the initial ZBA initial application the subsequent ZBA appeal and upholding the denial decision and this special permit application really are two separate things. We understand they're related, but they are
separate. Michael has a right to
come back and go and and go the way he went.
Did that answer for you, Leanne?
Yes. Thank you. Because that's because I had as I said, I was trying to formulate the question and that's really why I wanted to use the word relationship. So, I think you've both given a lot more information.
Yeah. No, I was you know, I would never never want to be put in that position where I would be going over what the ZBA and the zonian official had already done. And I think we're we're clear of that by going the special permit route here. And for the record, I have no objection to what Michael's proposing Okay. So, Andreas, you can't make a motion, can't vote. Anybody on the commission want to make a motion with respect to this application? We want to think about that motion and and what it might contain.
We could and that would be
Do we want to del because is that something that can be deliberated or
so one of the options we have is we can secure the deliberation for tonight. We've got 65 days to deliberate on on the answer and we can Wayne and I can get together and come up with what we think are conditions of approval that would go along with with an application.
I it's my opinion that that's something we ought to take advantage of.
Okay. I I would like and and I'm going to include Michael in this too. U we I I would like to see that if if we have a motion to approve that it really locks Michael down into the current conditions and without any expansion of what's going on there.
Yeah.
With all due respect.
Yeah.
If if that's the commission's
Well, I'd certainly happy to go that way and and normally I get myself in trouble when we don't
but
I I I could have prepared a motion for the commissions.
And do any of the commission members that are seated have any concerns that they would like to voice at this point for conditions of approval that we haven't already that and and we haven't really talked any conditions of approval going into this. I don't know that there will be many. We've got a couple of standard conditions that we can put on.
Right.
That but as far as other things, anybody have any
probably amount of trucks, amount of vehicles, whatever you guys came up with.
Yep.
Right. That
hat Yeah.
Right. all the square footage which I already went over it and it's way over what the building can hold but hold it to what it's supposed to be inside the building right as much as you can.
Yep.
Right. That's why he's doing it. And if he has a list of what he has now, it's going to have to stay with that list. Right. That's what's being approved.
Correct.
Yes. That's my thinking is is that that really we like where this stuff's going to be parked when it's not in the building, you know, and I know that there's supposed to be screening when you have the homebased business for parking. Anything that's extra is supposed to be
okay we'll make a
nd we'll bring we'll bring to the next meeting a motion with provisions of approval. we'll make a mo we'll make a motion to do that motion and then we have discussion on it and and we'll we'll go that route at that point. The extra parking where that's going to be located,
right?
Yeah.
So that doesn't turn into a circus for the neighbors. So is the motion to or
there is no motion. Right. So so
I think we're done with the discussion for tonight. We'll we'll continue deliberation at the next meeting. And so that's all you've got for tonight. Now the let me just
do you know J
so a fellow neighbor who has a landscape business landscape business is growing. He is I think going to be at some point talking to us about building something soon to be if not already owner of
yes
the the Christmas tree park down
parcel right down the street from you.
Okay.
Looking to build looking to build a little one one unit industrial park at this point. I don't know if you would consider with less than you make a year getting getting making making that a two
right now. You're very close.
Yeah, it it just almost seemed ideal, but but that's what Jake is going to talk to us about.
We'll reset coming. Okay, very good. So, I wanted to make sure you at least knew that opportunity was available to you. It might be a better way to go than than what you're looking at here. I'll let you decide that. And and now you know legit.
I can talk about parking here. All right.
Next item up for business here is review of the lot line adjustment between the Finch family farm route 6 property and Lake Road LLC Lake Road property. so I have it up on the screen and I do have I do have paper copies here because I I knew that screen was so bunch less than satisfactory satisfying able to make that bigger on the screen there.
I can make it bigger but then you're only going to see parts of it.
Yes. I don't know who to hand I'll hand this over to Jake. Hi Jake. Oh so
that so for the Jake purpose of the discussion tonight you know who owns the property right this minute?
Ryan Fish. Okay. And then the Ben Franklin plumbing is looking to get a little carve out. Wayne, can you just go on the screen there? Point. Oh yeah, John can do it with his cursor. A little carve out that we're looking about adjusting the lot line so that Ben Franklin can get a little bit bigger.
So we we'll have we have several things few things going on here. Ryan, you're on. You're on. You can hear me, right, Ryan?
Yep, I can hear you guys.
Okay, let me jump in if if I'm if I'm going off the reservation here.
Okay.
so, Ryan Fitch is, the, as we all know, the property's been for sale. It's a big sign out there. Ben Franklin Plumbing, Andrew and Stephen Minuchi and Ryan and maybe I'll I'll let you tell the story.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, basically, can you hear me, guys?
Yeah.
All right. So, yeah. So, Andy and and his brother approached me and they wanted to extend their line, when the property was up for sale. and that's basically what we came to agreement. allowing us an easement from Lake Road to the property in exchange and some dollars for extending their lot line from their building to the roadway that comes up from Route 6 that we use for the Christmas tree sales. Jake then actually approached me as well interested in land and you know so he is actually going to be taking over the rest of the land and again allowing an easement as well from Route 6 for the Bandicoo as well. So they're both helping each other out with a double entry and exit. generally, we were told that, you know, there's just a lot line adjustment for Manukuchi's. there shouldn't be that much, that goes into that. And then, the survey was done, for the rest of the property, for Jake's for Jake's business.
So, Ryan, can you explain the I guess the the the flow here? is the lot line adjustment with you and
Yes.
Jake takes over the rest or purchases the rest?
Yeah. Two separate transactions.
Okay. With you.
With me.
Okay. Okay. Gotcha. unfort I I did invite Benis to be on the call. I I they they were out of town. they Andrew did say he was gonna try and be on the call remotely, but it doesn't appear as though they are here.
Yeah, they they we spoke to them. my my realtor spoke to them and my attorney spoke to them. They're they're actually out of the country, they said. so they were going to try to get on, but unfortunately they didn't make it.
I did have email exchange with with the attorney on this. the attorney is the one, attorney Branch is the one that suggest suggested that I bring this to the board for review. This is not a public hearing. it's it's just forformational purposes and for the commission to ask questions if if they would like it. It was it has been suggested that I could just have approved this on my own. but Pu because this affects a special permit that was issued to the Metis when they originally constructed Protek which is prior to Ben Franklin that the commission should just get eyes on it. from my perspective, this is this is a good thing for the Menuchi to expand out in into there. It it's going to relieve them, relieve a lot of pressure on that small little lot that they have now. as we know, there is an existing ongoing zoning violation. A stop work order was issued. They stopped work, but remediation has yet to begin. in my discussions with Andrew and Stephen by expanding by adding this additional property that that will allow them to move stuff in into there and and work on remediating the zoning violation that currently exists, which is I think pretty obvious. It's pretty evident that that they did some excavations along the embankment, the rail trail embankment that went outside
the outside the special permit that was issued. As far as Jake, I'll let Jake talk about what what his plans might be for the for his portion of the property. there. Again, I'm hoping that this will go a long ways towards updating a zoning violation regarding a home occupation, a special permit that was
Yeah. So,
electric
basically we have, you know, outgrown our current area. as I'm sure everybody here knows. so we're having a very hard time keeping everything inside the property lines, you know. I know people park on the road there. my neighbor constantly parks on the road. but anyways, so adding this, you know, piece of land to the business will drastically reduce what I have at the property on Mar Valley at my current residence, which I have the special permit for. So, basically, we're going to be using one section of this property. You know, we're going to be clearing the trees out, putting down probably a milling pad, and just using it for kind of a layown yard for vehicles, trucks. I do have at some point plans to put up a building. The size of that is to be, you know,
determined. but there is a thought of putting up a building, commercial building for the business down the road. I don't currently have the funds to do that, but that is kind of a plan of ours at some point in time. but basically right now we're looking to just purchase it and, you know, cut out a big area so we can park trailers and trucks and vehicles and kind of have our you know, probably have a few shipping containers down there just for inside storage for the time being. since there's no current buildings on the property or anything of that nature. going to make a have a easement through there off of Lake Road to get into that piece of property inside there.
Yes. So, there is a there's an easement on both ends. So, we have one through Andy's driveway there and then he's going to have one through our Route Six driveway. that easement. We're probably not going to be using that at the time. just because I do plan on keeping that whole front section, you know, full of Christmas trees at the moment. we don't plan on using that right now. So, there probably won't be any access road for us through our property from that easement anytime soon. But yes, there is an ement there just in case, you know, or it's easier to
come in and out of the property instead of lake. Yeah. or instead of Route Six. Yes. and we do have access on the backside on Merit Valley as well, but with that low bridge, it's only 116 I think it is. larger vehicles and larger trucks cannot make it under that bridge. So having the access off of six andor, you know, from the Manuchi's driveway there is going to be very helpful.
Yeah, the future tree you could use that once piece between the road and the and the Dollar General to put something else there.
Yeah. Yeah. At some point, at some point, we would want to, you know, not necessarily break up the lot anymore than it is, but keep our section and then have another development or another set of buildings for possible rental of garages, you know, for other businesses, especially in the Andover area, because there's really nothing in the Andover area for anybody to go to. You know, as we all know, there's no rental space here. Columbia, Columbia is the closest one. and they fill up pretty quickly. You know, those garages are always packed over there. So, at some point there is hopes to, you know, after we get our portion squared away to at least have another set here and then maybe on the other side of the gas line. The property is kind of funky the way it's set up. I know that there is some wetlands on the backside and things like that. So, there's going to be some offsets and all that. We'll have to, you know, cross that bridge when we get there. But,
you understand that this is not a site plan. This is not anything.
It was just because no
there there was no test noculation information for your section of the property. It was a requirement that that it be shown that there that a building and septic could be placed on that property in that
Yeah, they did. We did do test fits for septic and
there's like 20 ft of gravel in there,
right?
Oh yeah, it's all sand.
We all know that. Yeah,
the there is a requirement that you prove it. And of course,
we have a a a B100A from Eastern Highlands Health District. and I think it was a 5,000 square foot building that that
Yeah, I believe that's what the survivor put out there. Yes, there 's the there's the B100A from Ireland and yeah, the surveyor somewhere in these notes. It's a 5,000 foot building that So, it's a pretty good size building with them that that this preliminary information shows it can support. So,
so you're going to buy all the way out to the co stack?
Yes. The whole piece.
Yeah. Everything except for when he took off in this side.
So, yeah, it's going to be all the way down. And Ryan, do we have the the pins installed for each of the your corners of the lot line adjustment?
I'm sorry, what was that, please? Replate.
Do we have the the monumentation or the pins in place that that delineate where the lot line adjustment is?
that I don't know. that's this is really not Jake's working with a surveyor for that. I know we requested it. and I know you spoke to him. Did he did you mention that to him? I I believe they have put them in. I I can verify with him and if they haven't, I can come out and restake it. But I'm pretty positive that they have staked the new property lines.
I did have a conversation with your surveyor to that effect also.
Yeah. I thought you did, Wayne. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. So I guess you know when when you set up business over there that's going to take and I was trying to look like through the list of different things and I didn't know what we're going to call it. So I don't know whether it's special permit or site plan review at this time. To me they're about the same with the exception of the public hearing. U but that'll go that way. you know, I was hoping that somebody from Ben Franklin would be here tonight, too, so that we could you know, make sure that they understood that since it was a special permit and Wayne, you can pass that on to them that you know, we'll be looking for essentially with and and again, I don't know because they're not here to tell us what they're planning to do, but I think it's a substantive change to the existing special permit that was approved. Which means we have to go through the special permit process again and and we should show what we plan to do to u remediate the digging that was done that you that you issued the stop work on. And Wayne, were we able to conclude that there was no pertabation to the state property there? It's all on Ben Franklin property.
As best I can determine by my surveyor's eyeball, I I I don't think there was an intrusion.
Okay.
But everything's buried in poison ivy over there. And I don't try real dark. So, I think unless anybody's got any other questions for Jake or Ryan, u that's what they came here tonight to talk to us about.
Jed, I have a couple questions.
Go ahead.
one is I don't have the agenda up at the same time. So, is this just does this at this point basically an administrative review that Wayne brought to the commission?
Yeah, I would think that's a good word for it. It's not a site plan approval. It's not a
there's there's no action for us at this point. There will be action and so we're just kind of getting a heads up that that we'll be seeing something else coming down the road.
Okay, that's exactly what I meant. I really wanted to get the commission's eyes on because the the u you know the combined wisdom of the commission is you know something I still need as a as a new zoning enforcement officer and if the commission does not see anything that that they object to then we should have this filed pretty quickly.
Okay. And my other question is for Mr. Serdam. and I don't know because I'm not there in person if I if there's a portion of the map that I can't see. and somebody mentioned still having the the Christmas trees in the front, so to speak, at this end at the Dollar General and Benjamin Franklin end of the property. Mr. Certium, are you purchasing or leasing all of the rest of the land that goes down of Mr. Fitch's land that goes down toward Bunker Hill Road? I mean, I'm just I'm trying to understand what portion of this exactly what portion of this we're talking about, even though it we it will it will come up again in the future.
Yeah. So, we're purchasing the whole property minus the area that got cut out for the Manukuchis. So, we are purchasing from here all the way down to the end of Mar Valley where the turnaround is
on. So, you're purchasing everything on the south side of Route Six,
correct? Yes. So, not none of Bunker Hill is going to be ours. That's all going to still be Fitch Island Farm. we're just purchasing the portion that's across from Extra Mark all the way down, you know, Mary Valley that is on that's shown here.
Okay. Thank you.
Anything else, Leanne?
No.
Okay.
is the commission feels comfortable with this?
Yeah. Okay.
I guess that's it for you. You tonight?
Sounds good.
Free to stay. Free to go.
I think I'm going to go.
Okay. Very good. Y procedurally so that
Ryan and Jake procedurally somebody's got to come in with the stamped A2 surveys to file.
Okay.
And I would imagine some revised deeds too that reflect this new configuration.
Okay. and just just file them with the town clerk and town clerk will let me know and I'll come upstairs, check them over and sign up.
Okay. So, deeds and
check with your attorney that day. Yeah.
And check with the
Yeah. Between me and Ryan, our attorneys are already in the works of talking. So, I'm sure between the two of them, we'll we'll figure it out.
Okay.
And we'll file that with you once we get it and I can
Oh, with the town clerk, not the town clerk.
The town clerk. Okay.
And the survey, is that going to go to the town clerk as well? Okay, perfect.
Do you want to give building the end use a couple copies? We'd appreciate it.
Okay. Sound good.
Congratulations.
Thank you. Thank you. Good stuff. Make sure you're entering.
Yeah, I'll talk to I got to talk to him about getting a A2 survey anyway. So, I will talk to see can I propose? Right. I'll I'll see if they have the pins in. If they don't, I'll have him put those in. But I'm pretty sure that he did. But I'll I will double check with him and make sure that those print
right after this. There's nothing I would think there's nothing that should say propose down here.
Right. Right. Yeah. Now everything's good and I can let him know that as well. and we'll be moving forward this as a service. So Okay. Sounds good. Thank you, gentlemen.
Thank you.
Yes.
Thanks. Yeah, have a good night.
Have a good night.
Okay, next up is a discussion of concepts concerning possible zoning regulation changes. And this is something that I have worked on. we've been talking about some of these changes for a long long time. my goal is to dubtail a couple of these changes in with when we we wrap up the the change to Anglo tourism and and make that just one entry into our regulations. The and so John, this is where if you could go to the bring up the copy of our rigs and we'll work through that a little bit. All right. So, the the full the full set of rags here.
Yeah. So, if you were to scroll down to section 4.92 and 4.93. Okay. So, yeah. So, back when we were talking about a rear lot being developed over on I guess it's Kendi Road, where we were trying to build a house in the flood plane over there. we got into a lot of discussions about the width of a rear lot and and what we really wanted was frontage on the rear lot. And so I crossed out the word width and put frontage there because that's what we were want to see along along the road. And we I did the same thing in 4.93 and that's really all there is to it. We were trying to apply a width regulation to give us you know make a lot with without sufficient front edge along the road there and and we said at the time we should change that. So here it is. Yay. So I think that's that's pretty easy and straightforward. We'll we'll come back to that. It gets a little trickier here in a minute, but that's that. My goal tonight is to hear the commission, you know, make a motion and approve setting a public hearing at some point on these changes and we'll dubtail it with one of our other public hearings coming up. We'll
we'll have a few. do you want to now?
Nope. I want to get through all these changes and if there's any of them that get too hard, I'll cross those off the list because I want to get these done that we've been talking about for for forever. If you were to go down to section 10.7.2.1 too far.
Yep.
Okay. So, there we go. you. Yeah. So, when we were when we were talking about building this house over on Hendy Road, you know, there were places where it said you couldn't do that. And it was pointed out to us that our regulation discussed new construction in the flood bone zone. And that was the rationale for saying it must be okay because your regulation says that you can do that. And so I thought to avoid future issues there, we would just cross out the word new construction because the commission, you know, was not in favor of building new construction residential homes in the floodprone zone with the increasing flooding and all that kind of stuff. So that's all that changed.
So it just says substantial improvements. substantial improvements of any residential structure. So if there's already a structure and it could be house or anything else in there, we're not saying you can't improve it. We're just saying you can't build a new one.
This is improve the acceptable. So, all we're doing is saying no, we're we're getting rid of the loophole that that allows you to think you might be able to build an infrastructure home there. Any questions on that one? And then you see the you know, paragraph two I eliminated in entirety. If we're not going to do a new construction home in a floodprone zone, we're not going to have any discussion about building a manufactured home in floodprone zone. So, we just eliminated all of that. Okay. next one is scroll on down to the graph on section 11.2 for chart. So, this one's this one's a little little tougher. And in this chart, you know, we refer a lot in our regulations to frontage. We don't refer very much to whip and so except for on this chart. And so, I was replacing the word frontage with whip. John, can you increase that gentleman a little bit?
Could I Should I keep going? I I mean, it's really
I can I can read the
Okay.
The spacing is a little goofy on screen.
Yeah, it it it is. And probably a little goofy in the book, too. But but anyhow, so right now we're just we're just talking about the word crossing out with putting in frontage to fix up that that inconsistency where we want a rear lock to have frontage. We don't want to base it on the width on whether it's a legal lie or not.
And then what's your limit on frontage then?
Okay, we're going to talk about that differently. That's a different topic that we'll get to next.
And you got rid of seasonal and
Oh yeah, don't talk about that one yet. We're just I'm going back to the lot on Hitney Road.
Yeah.
Where the town owned a little triangle of of land that precluded him from having frontage on there and he showed us a bunch of width calculations that didn't make sense to me at the time. But I thought the easiest thing to do is say we're we're worried about frontage. Now, we might we might want to put width in there, too. We'd have a width requirement because otherwise you could have a a rear lot that was 50 ft wide and just go back to getting your 2 and 12 acres. It'd be a really funky looking lot. But that would be possible if we don't have width. But I didn't think about that at the time I was putting these in here. And so that's all I did was I fixed the front edge like we were talking about doing. And we might want to add something else in there later. I would not prepare to do that now. if if we get if we don't like that concept then then we'll I'll just take that one off the list with whit.
Does she What did John say about that? Have to ask. John probably wasn't here when we went through the history on that, so I really didn't ask him. John, feel free to chime in on what your your thought is, but that was the only thought that I had there.
Yeah. No, I I haven't I don't have the background on this. I
Yeah.
Is there And Scott, is there a specific question you're you
Well, what what are we missing? Did you say anything? And we could be just, you know, Yeah,
I'm I'm kind of a
continuous improvement fan and all I could do is fix them when they come up,
right?
yes, I still have a problem with this frontage. I thought all you needed was a a good width of a driveway because I see that in a lot of places. So if we were to go down underneath that and you know we we we would show hand over rear district rear lot 40 ft of frontage. That's how wide that driveway thing would have to be
to go back to the rear flag lot. They normally go like a rectangle in the back there. I mean, we were calling it width, but it wasn't really wid. It was just that's the front edge of Logan Road. So, across town width, it puts frontage in there.
The frontage is pretty good, then.
Yeah, that's it's it's reasonable. You can you put a good driveway down there. Now, we go over to Pine Ridge and he had just barely 50 ft. And so, when you go down, you look at ARD open space rear lot, it's 25. So, he has double lot,
two 25- ft strips to get back there. And and he had 50 ft running along the road there, just barely enough to to allow him to do what he wanted to do. So, that's that's how that one goes in with the rear lot discussion. But as far as width is concerned, when you're talking about a rear lot, you're still going to have to have a certain amount of width because you have the sideyard,
you get set back. Yeah. You know, it's it's not like he can make this 40 foot
hing. in the you know the training session we did the ABA training you know they they were talking about that guy was told he couldn't build a house on this lot because he didn't have the setbacks and he made the house 10 ft wide about 10 stories high just to you piss off the play guys and to prove that he could in fact build a house and it was a funky looking house and
he must have had more money than he knew what to do with because he didn't but That's so that's that discussion.
Chad Oh, I'm sorry. Before you leave this area, could I just note one other thing that if you're as long as we're sort of opening this up?
Yeah.
is you know this this middle section of the table is is minimum requirements.
Yeah.
And the and the right hand column of the minimum requirements before you get to maximum requirements is floor area.
where you've got all these 500s.
Yeah. state law basically eliminated the town's ability to set a minimum a minimum square footage for residential dwellings.
Good point. Yes, they did. So, this would be an easy time to just eliminate
that whole column.
Okay, we can do that. Yeah.
I think it says elsewhere in the regulations, the 500 square foot is mentioned.
It does. Yeah.
That's got to be dug out, too. Okay.
where are we going next?
So, on this same page, go up a little bit. So, I the first number that I changed on the front yard set back.
Oh.
On 11.2. Can Can I This is something that So, when you when you scroll down and when you get to 75 Andover Lake
Yeah, we we'll get there. But let's let's start with open space lot and
I can't read. I can't read the number that was flushed out, the number that was put in. 20 and 30. Okay. So, 20 and 30. And the thing that's that's crucial about the front yard setback is that you measure that set back for the center line of the road. And and so you know if you were to say that a road was 15 ft 30 ft wide so 15 ft off the center line we're saying you could be having your house put on an open space lot 5t from the road. I don't think that's what we wanted. I think they were expecting it to be 20t from the edge of the road. But I was going to sort of be generous and my recommendation was that we put it 30 feet. So we've got, you know, most of the the town roads are are 13 ft wide. That would give you like 12 feet from the road. maybe that's not enough. I don't know. But I knew that 20 was not the right answer when you're measuring from the center line.
30 is better. No.
Yeah. So 30 is better than 20. Yeah,
might be still too close. I don't know. But that's just what I put in there.
Are there any houses over there that are that close?
is it open?
I don't think so. You know, there's some every now and then you see a real old house as you're driving down country roads. It's right out the road. But, you know, we we certainly wouldn't want anybody building something new
that close to the road.
But that's Ann Lake open space. Yeah. So,
no, that's ARD.
Yeah, that was the ARD one,
not the L.
So, that's that was the discussion there. Moving down to the handover lake, we had it seasonal.
so seasonal
and my my thought was that nobody in this day and age is going to build a seasonal house on Andover Lake. it just that's not what people are going to do. They're they're going to build a year- round house. And so the issue that I'm trying to avoid here is that the there are some properties that did not meet the requirement for seasonal houses and they're going to want to go to be a year round house. And what is the hardship when when they can't meet the 60,000 square foot requirement? you know they're increasing the in the in what's the word Wayne for when you're not you're not meeting the requirement mean the nonconformity.
Nonconformity. Yeah. You're increasing the non-conformity. You can't do that. So, the guy who's going to make his house year round, he can't do it because he can't increase the non-conformity. So, my thought was, since we're not going to build any seasonal houses, let's just get rid of the seasonal house line. Just put it the Andover Lake one. Anybody who's on the lake, you know, that's got a threeseason house is way short of the require non-conformity already, but it it avoids the potential to get into that area that he can't get out of because I think we would like to have houses behive with the section in the regulation for conversion of SE to
what
year round
I I think we would still do a special permit to convert it
looking to make sure you know and it doesn't have to be a hard special permit it could be pretty easy I just didn't want to get rid of it because I didn't know what the unintended consequences of that would be but we we eliminate the need for him to go to the CBA to get the increased nonconformity which you can't get then it's not a hardship. No.
So that's why I did that and over lake open space. again that front yard setback I went from 20 to 30 just because you know I was using the the width of the road from the center line is maybe 10 ft. It's really 13, but it it keeps it from building the house right on top of the road. And then
why why is there a 751 there?
So an error.
That's an error. That's a typo.
Yeah, the one should be a superscript one.
Yeah,
referring to a footnote.
I wasn't changing all the little typos that are in there. There's there's plenty of those. and we can change those as we go without a lot of discussion. I sometimes do fix
that wouldn't require any kind of
No, we just typically correct. The next one, I started thinking about it today as I was, you know, trying to figure out why I was doing what I was doing. And using the same logic we've already talked about, business adjacent to an ARD had the frontage requirement of 10 ft. Okay, so that would put it in the road. I was backing that off to 25. But then I was asking myself, why is it in the line right above that? If a business is next to a business, we have a 45 ft setback, but if you're next to a residence, we only need something smaller. It seems to me it should be bigger, not smaller. And so, you know, my thought was that 25 ft wasn't right. maybe it should be 45 the same at least. And, I'd be happy with with doing that. But, it doesn't make any sense to me that if you're next to a residence, you'd have a smaller setback. You'd want a bigger. So, my, my thought at this point is I'll change that from 25 to 45. Make it just like the line above. Okay. And I think that was that might be all the changes that I was proposing on that chart. And anybody have any questions or comments on the changes to the chart that fixes up a
lot of rough spots that I thought we had. now if we go down to section 19 which is the kennels. What is the lot? Go back to I want to see the lot coverage. Is that still there?
What's that?
Black coverage.
yeah, it's still there.
It's in one of the righth hand columns. Maximum requirements, lot coverage. So, the one we were just talking about, lot coverage.
Yeah,
those are both 50%.
No, Andover Lake.
Oh, Andover Lake.
12%. you're at 12.
Yeah.
And yeah, 10 for a rear.
So, we figure that out
for the was all a lot.
Yeah.
I did not figure that out. I figured with the it is in the nutrient allocation. he's I mean I can bring that up but I I did look at it. It's not 10%. It's not 12%.
Lot he's
if he's Yeah. He's about a 2acre lot. That that gives you a little over 10,000 square feet.
Yeah. So we we'll check. That's a good thing to check.
The nutrient allocation plan does capture those numbers. It does. But okay, any other questions on on this particular chart?
19. I'm on 192. Where are we going? Yeah. Well, start at the top. I can't remember. And and it was a very simple concept, but Okay. Yep. Scroll scroll down till you get some changes here. And in the intent of this is when there
be well so there's a lot there's a lot of things that reference in addition to the requirements of section 19.2.6. Yeah, I don't think there is a 19.2 2.6. We'll see in a minute. But, you know, cuz honestly, I thought that was 19.1.6. We We'll find out how big an error I made there. That's why we go through that with you guys.
didn't make sense.
Yeah. Scroll down to 19.2.6. Just see what that is. 19.2.6. Sorry, I bypassed it. 192 2.1.2.2
three and that's it. There is no point6.
That's why you know there was there was a lot of that going on in there and so I tried to you know wherever it said reference something I tried to look at it and and see if there was anything there. but anyhow, when we went through BB's kennel, we concluded somehow that for a class A kennel, you didn't need to have a public hearing. And BB's property was 200 acres out there. And so I wasn't worried about the impact on the neighbors with with this small kennel that he had. But I could just see somebody with a, you know, two acre lot, three acre lot. I think it talks about the minimum size for the kennel. I can't imagine the neighbors not wanting to get a vote on what's going on with that kennel. And so I tried to change the words so that every kennel would require a special permit and that's yeah so in 19.2 to when we were going through BB's Denn because you know Bart Gr was
you know we had discussions about well we we didn't do a public hearing and we came through it that under 19.2 2 says the following uses are permitted subject to commission approval and it's all the type A kennel stuff. Then I wanted to pull words in there that we would have a public hearing and it would be a special permit just like I said at the top. So that's what all those changes ought to allude to as you go through there. Should we just make every every kennel is now a special permit with public hearing. Okay. and that was all that I have in there right now. John, if you could scroll back up to 7 A 0.9. This is the Lake District. There's one more change I'd like to just run by everybody here. Okay. So, I guess scroll up to the the use above that 7A whatever I'm looking for the where it talks about garage .
Okay. No, it's up.
No, no, it's it's in that right in there.
Yeah. Okay. Right in that range.
Nope. You're
right there. 7.0.3. Okay. So, it says, and that's what he has a right to have. No special permit, no site plan review, no nothing. If you're in the Lake District, you're allowed to have a twocar garage. We know in the Lake District there are places where there is more than a twocar garage. And we've played the game of well, it's not a garage, it's a she-shed. And u looks like a garage to me. And so I was thinking that I would add down as 70.9 garages holding more than two motor vehicles. We could do it by a special permit. And if you're in one of those those little lots that has an eighth of an acre, no, you can't get a a big extra garage in there. But if you had a two acre spot or something like that, you wanted more than a twocar garage, put a special permit. Yeah, we could do that. because I really don't know how we've gotten well I don't know how we've gotten away with all these bigger garages in Lake District than what was said there. But I figure we'd clear it up. Tell somebody if they want a bigger garage, put in a special permit. If it makes sense with the lot you got, then you can do it. If it doesn't, then you can go that way. So that that would be one extra extra change that not in there yet that I would go add to it in and so at some point hold a public hearing. I don't know when that public hearing would be quite yet. We'll I'll get with
Wayne to figure it out. We'll vote on that at the next one. But is there anything that the commission is uncomfortable with that we've talked about tonight? No.
Okay. Very good. So, Scott, we're one step closer. Can we get just a little bit?
Oh, go ahead, Wayne.
I wanted to stay in that lake. In that lake, the section, the lake.
Okay, I'll put it back.
Add a word.
So, the one about the twocar garage. That's the lake district.
Okay. Can you can you go up
just a little bit where it talks about accessory structures and the accessory buildings? It's as of right accessory uses right there. Accessory uses in buildings within 50 ft of the high water mark. can we add the word structure there to or should we add the word structure there to include cks and things like that that are attached to the ground and not and and they don't, you know, they're not extended out into the lake. They're not
So, if it's a house, you got to be 75 ft from the water,
right? And and again the area where this came to play was one of the one of the houses wanted to build a deck and and essentially the deck was like 5 ft from the water. It was very small lot.
right.
Yes. I I assumed that so a building is something that's got a roof on it that is permanent. A structure doesn't have a roof on it,
but it's attached but is attached to the ground.
Could be attached to the ground. And so that would be like a deck.
And should we be able to build a deck within 50 ft of the high water margin?
I'm just posing the question.
Yeah. No, it's it's good. That might take some thought, but again, we're we've got time to deliberate on it because we're not even set the public hearing yet. We're going to put that in there.
Understand there's a fine line between a structure which is attached to the ground and you can you could argue a floating a deck.
Yeah.
That's just
buildings. Buildings are structures, but structures don't have to be built,
right?
But you can construct a deck
that that is just sitting on top of concrete pucks, not attached to the ground. It goes up and down with the
There's structures over there built over the lake. There are buildings have
you'd have to have a car to allow a dock.
Yeah, because other than a dock. I know one myself.
Well, there is a car for ducks in the regulations.
It's a it's a roofed building that's right on the edge.
Yeah, I I struggle with the lake. I mean, I'm new to town. I mean the lake is the lake wouldn't be what it is
today if it
is it more than a shed that you're talking about Scott because I know I know there's a structure like a you know
place to have a you know gather
like a
roofed structure
like a roof boat boat lift or something like that or
no it's a structure to have
okay not aware and and sometimes you You get something that's grandfathered in if it's been there for a long time.
Been there a long time.
Yeah, probably. But but would we want that kind of thing going in now or would we like to keep it 50 ft from the lake? There's a lot of well I know there are a lot of sheds that I don't know how they got where they are. They just get put in because they're right up on the lot line and they're right down next to the water. Then And so that wouldn't be allowed here anyhow unless you were to go and get a variance for it in the ZBA saying what your hardship is. But
it would be awful to
I'm okay with putting changing that to make it building/structure shall not be within 50 ft of established high water lake and then we can we can talk about it as we deliberate which you we get the public hearing we can do that we deliberate on it after we can check it
could be a solution in search of a problem for all I know. Well, again, you what I like is when we we all assumed that you couldn't build a deck within 50 ft of the lake and then it comes into No, it's a building doesn't say structure.
That was the topic of a recent ZBA
reversal of a
nd we're allowed to learn from those things
decision.
So, I will add that add that to this list here. Okay. Any other concerns or comments at this point? Okay, that that concludes that item. so at this point, I would like to make a motion that the planning and zoning commission enter executive session for the purpose of discussing where we are in the restoration process with a gravel bid on Route 6. Personal invited to the session include all commission members, CEO and town planner. Looking for a second on that.
A second.
Thank you, Ann. any discussion?
No.
And it won't take it won't take long.
Okay.
Yeah. So, so the way this would have because we're in a hybrid situation, and I could be wrong, but it looks like the only person I don't know if if there's any non-commissioners in the room other than
Wayne who's invited.
So then we're really just talking about K. Hutchinson, I believe, right, Katherine?
Probably at this point. Yeah.
So, we would at this point, we probably have to ask her to leave. oh, okay.
Because you've got Leanne and Anmarie online.
I mean, I suppose I could set up a I could set up a breakout room, I suppose, and and bring you guys
I Okay. And I tried to figure out, you know, I said, well, it works out okay. Everybody here in the room is invited, so it's easy. I didn't know that there there would be another How about trying it and see? Okay, I can I could I'll create I'll create a a breakout room and and bring everyone over to it other than Katherine.
Okay. So, I'd ask So, Wayne, you'll have to jump over to the room.
I did. do on the other computer or
I I don't I see you up on the screen here. I'm I'm not
I can shut my Zoom off at this point.
Okay. Yeah, turn your Zoom off. We're We're close to the end. You're getting needed. But somebody's got to jump over. Somebody's got to jump from the the room here. I think you have to click on
I think do
join from Mac.
John,
we're recording again.
So, Marina, I don't know if you're still with us, but when we did get to the breakout room, we recognized that we had not voted on that motion. We did take a vote and the vote was unanimous you 500. So we did comply with the requirement to vote on the motion. Next up is correspondence. Wayne correspondence. I have no correspondence to report. I do I do want to let the commission know that there are two lots on Bunker Hill Road in the process of of submitting site plans to construct residences. One is5 Bucker Hill Road. The other one and I can't recall the number. It's on the top of the hill there, across the street from the farm. Both of these are that lot across the street from the farm. That that has to be that still has to be approved to to build on. That's in the process of doing the Burke test and all that good stuff. The 115, that's a former that that's one of Nisa's subdivision lots. So, both me and Joe looked at the at the preliminary site plans for that and it's looking good. I can report at 243 Longill Road, which is been a longstanding it's one it's another stone house that nothing did that has had a building permit for it for quite some time. There's actually some buildings starting there.
I see
which is good to see.
Yeah,
we have a residence going up at 59 Gerardi that has zoning the wetlands approvals.
Wow. Seems like all of a sudden we got some building. Yeah. Last year nobody was building. I
think 63 long hill sold 35,000 over asking by 35.
Yeah. The that's the other
family. The family moved in. Very nice.
Yeah. The Pinidge the Korea career.
Right.
George George he's informed me that by email that he did complete the work. I've yet to go out there and verify it. He informed me last Thursday or something like that. So I got to take a ride out there and visit with them and see what he did. people that Scott knows three years later and I did have someone come in an individual his name is I don't need to say his name u older gentleman has a property on Route Six sort of where u where Merit Valley across the road from where Meritt Valley where Hay Merit Valley used to end 627 or 6. He's got a little over he's got five acres plus or minus there on either side of the rail trail. And he was talking about he he wanted to he had this concept of of elderly housing using small wart buildings. So I told him his best thing to do would be to bring that to the commission as as a as an idea, as a concept. But then in my further, you know, I I did go take a closer look at that property and it's it's all mostly in a in a flood plane and u I'll need to have a discussion with him about that. That's really all I have to report. Okay. Any questions for Wayne?
Have you heard from the AI company that wants to move in?
H I think they disappeared dropped their gown away.
So, they're not going to pursue that.
No, they they looked at Lyn they did look at Lyn Lyn Holton's corners but nothing happened with that. that property that they were looking at at Skinner Hill is in contingency now
ith someone else.
Was it? I don't know too. We'll just I just
see it on realtor.com. It's in contingency. And then I noticed that that 45 acre lot on the Wheeling Road that's listed. there's a a concept for 13 13 residences 13 resident subdivision on that 45 acres that the real estate company is pitching.
Interesting.
And that's been there forever.
Yeah.
Well, they they seem to be pushing it now. It's going to be like a community like an association or just
No, just it looks like it. It's nothing. It's just something a real estate agent is
putting out there. You know, here buy this. You can do this and I'll make a good commission.
Okay. Inland wetlands. got nothing to report there. And John, you got anything?
just a couple of quick things just as a note. I participated last month after our planning and zoning meeting in along with Eric and several people from Crag and other towns in a Route Six and Hop River safety audit. We we took bikes all the way from Town Hall all the way into Bolton Notch to take a look at Route Six and Hop River crossings to ideally prioritize some intersection upgrades, but they'll they'll likely be expensive and and you know somewhat on the distant horizon, but it was a good it was a good u audit. I'm also participating at Eric's request in a Crag public safety meeting. at the beginning of September. you know, and largely, you know, several town representatives are requested and obviously Andover is a little bit low on its public works staff right now. So, I'll be participating possibly along with Eric at the beginning of next month. And then also of note, I'll be sitting in on a CROG and CCM housing session tomorrow to to
I think probably outline and possibly roll out a potential strategy for Krogs and CCM's involvement in the special legislative session that is still planned but unscheduled for September to address the housing legislation that the governor vetoed in June. and and we'll be looking potentially for, you know, some alternative approaches to that legislation for the special session. So, I'll be participating in that tomorrow. and we'll we'll stay tuned.
Okay. Thank you, John. Moving on to public speak. Katherine Hutchinson, you got anything for us tonight?
No, thank you. Okay.
Contrary to usual, I don't have anything to ask or say other than I'm very interested in what the legislature, if there is a special session next in September, does.
Yeah, should be interesting. Approval of the minutes from July 17th. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from the public hearing in the regular meeting that were held on Tuesday, July 15th, 2025. just trying to check the calendar here. One place said July 17th. The minutes themselves said July 15th. July 15th it was. So, yeah. So, the minutes were correct with the date and seconded. Any discussion on the minutes?
no discussion, but I'll have to abstain. I don't think I was at that meeting.
Okay. gotcha. The the only the only thing I found was a nit on the old business with planet conservation develop quality life chapter three lines up from the bottom of that first paragraph. The planning zoning commission to do make a difference should be due to make a difference. I think what can the planning and zoning commission do to make a difference? So we just flip those two words around. That's pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things. Any other comments on the minutes? Make a motion to approve the minutes as amended.
Thank you. Another second. call for vote. Leanne.
Hi.
Scott.
Hi.
Leanne,
Sorry. I
Okay. Amarie,
I abstain.
And I vote I as well. So the motion passes 401 with Ann Marie abstaining. I didn't see her voice if I don't see her mouth move.
Next regularly scheduled meeting will be September 16th to be held as a hybrid meeting. Any other comments before we adjourn this evening? Wayne, one of the things we we did not do, so we'll do it the next meeting. you had some changes you wanted to make to the gravel bit section.
Yes.
And we didn't go through those tonight. So, we'll we'll do those at the next meeting. And then after that discussion, we'll make it a motion to hold public hearing on. Sounds good. Anybody else? I make a motion to adjourn.
Second.
Who second it?
Yes.
Thank you. All in favor say
I.
Any opposed? Any abstain? No. Motes has a 500 Z. Thank you very much everybody. story to keep people late.