call the order the meeting at 7 o'clock on January 6, 2026 which meeting of the year. roll call, Bill, myself, Megan, and Would you guys like to introduce yourselves again?
my name is Eric Johansson. I'm the new public works supervisor for Rancho, the new J. I apologize, but I I have a I have the flu, so I don't want everybody sick.
Thank you. Thank you for coming in. You should be home, but for your own sake.
Well, I'm getting I'm getting with cool. All right.
Oh, yeah.
And I'm Tom Welen with BHB.
Okay. Additional questions. Yeah.
All right. So, no additions or changes from the or agenda. approval of minutes already get a chance to read them, review them, anything comments. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. A second. All in favor?
I public comment. Hold business. Permit application IWWC 25-15. Jim Bano handover long road replacement of an existing long road bridge over river. So I presented last and I think wanted us to come back to answer any additional questions.
I think questions for the term if I remember
the pre I had three questions last time and I'll start with the same three questions this time.
Y who from the town is in charge of the job. So that the Jim Milano sort of the the town administrator or town engineer with the town engineer.
No, I know.
Okay.
And the public works supervisor.
Oh yeah. So the the applicant is the the town manager. So it's Jim Milano. So he signed that and he's he's the applicant. So he's in charge of the charity.
I thought the applicant.
Well, we may be the applicant. It kind of differs. Well, that's why I asked the question because on the application it says Jim Milano is the property owner and city the applicant,
right? I think it's, you know, it differs at state and federal level where the the applicant is has to be the owner. So, it's on town level it kind of changes from town to town. So, but we're the authorized agent. So, where the the designer and the CLA for the project do is also involved. They administer the project, but it is a town project. If I understand it's PHP on behalf of the town, the applicant,
right?
Okay. Yeah. No, I got it. And I, you know, Jim's here on the inter basis. You know, Eric, I think you said your name was you brand new and all new people. You know, I just when when something happens, and I know Eric Anderson got called on plenty of times with the the last bridge, you know, he was in the middle of it, a nebby, and he knew he was the guy who was on the hook and
yeah, think yeah, he attended all the meetings and
he did, you know, he was up there, you know, he had a
that was, you know, sort of his personality driven. But but he was you knew he was the guy that if anybody had a question, he was the guy you went to.
So the product is seen by the state. It's state administered. So it's, you know, the contractor is hired. Correct me if I'm wrong, Tom. He's the project engineer. So he's really he's he's behind all of the work.
if if I can just jump in momentarily. on the Bunker Hill project, bridge 106, the sister project to this project, Eric Anderson as the town administrator, was the dayto-day administrator for the town of Andover. So any questions that arose during the construction of the project would funnel from the contractor through in this scenario SLR who was the consultant inspection firm hired by the town of Andover after undergoing a thorough selection process and interview process. and then ultimately any final decisions for pro for any issues of major or substantial or major change recommendations would be made to Eric who then in turn would take those
recommendations to the first selectman and the board of selectmen for final confirmation of the town's position. position on that particular issue. in the absence of Eric, I realize Jim is acting as a as a interim town administrator, but in the meetings that I had with Eric and Jim prior to Eric leaving was that Jim was going to step in and basically fill the shoes of Eric in that role for this project until such time as a permanent town administrator could be hired by the town. I I hope that answers your question or because the the project is 100% owned by the town. the only involvement the only reason that Greg and I are involved in the project is because the the design and the inspection of the project and the along with the construction is 100% reimburseable to the town of Andover by federal and state monies about the content of the overseering is a good example of that. I would not guarantee even if it had a fulltime personnel
and it wasn't intended to be a hard question or a trick question. I just want to make sure that Jim knows he's the guy and if something comes up, you know, he's he's the guy and as to, you know, whoever, you know, I don't want to hear later on after the problem might come up and I hope it doesn't, but oh, I didn't know I was responsible for that. It it so it should have been, you know, it kind of easy, but we ought to say it and recognize it and go that way. have you had conversation that you provided?
No. Talk to Eric about the old one on his way out, but nothing with Jim yet about this one.
Could you just touch base with him and confirm that he is aware that he'll do that?
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean, it sounds like he should be, you know, with Greg and may have transition.
Yeah, he's been involved in conversations with us. Yeah. It says something to talk about a little several times. The second question, you know, was in the Connecticut DEP natural diversity database coordination letter. You know, it says a qualified herbologist required to be on site at all times while construction and clearing is taking place. And I just wondered if if we were planning on complying with that I guess it's a requirement from deep.
It is a requirement from deep and during the normal course of construction. we've we've the we we VHB originally retained the services of Hank Gruner to act as the herpatologist on this project and he went through and did a site investigation of the project prior to the final design plans being put together and he developed a mitigation plan which was if I remember correct correctly, part of the application that we submitted to the town of Andover for the inland wetlands permit and giving all of his recommendations as to what requirements needed to be followed by the contractor based on the fact that there is a high likelihood that we will encounter turtles, snakes, etc. within the project limits. when we go to put the coffer dams in place prior to installing the coffer dams for the removal of the existing bridge, Hank will be doing an inwater investigation of the construction zone to ensure that there aren't any nesting turtles within the limits of the the coffer dam. And then once again after the coffer dam has been installed, he will be once again performing an inwater search just to make sure that none of the turtles got trapped behind the coffer dam before the contractor commences work. at the time that the grubbing for the project takes place, Hank will be meeting with the contractor on site for the proper placement of the sedimentation control devices which also act as the the barriers for the confinement of the project site to keep the reptiles out to the project site once they have come out of hibernation
and have left. there will be periodic sweeps performed by Hank during various phases of construction that he will physically perform sweeps of the project site and remove any animals that are found within the limits of confinement to outside of those areas. he will be pro providing training to the contractor's personnel to help them identify the species in question and and how to and how to reach out to him to come down and take care of the removal of those particular animals from within the project site. he will also be monitoring the activity on the site so that if various sections of the encroachment fencing need to be readjusted either in length in width or whatever. He'll be there to direct the subcontract or to direct the contractor on how best to lay out and install those to protect the species in question. Is Hank doing this voluntarily or is he paid to do these activities? He is being
paid he is being he is actually under subcontract to the consultant inspection firm SLR that will be performing the inspection work on the project just as he did for them on the Bunker Hill project and he is retained by him and his services are billable and reimburseable by the federal and state monies. So I think Jed's question is that it basically says he'll be on site assuming tank at all.
No, he will not. No, he he he is not going to be on site at all times and the deep requirements do not require that he be on site at all times. They just
all activities occurring. I I saw that I saw that requirement, you know, several several places as I read through all the material here. But, you know, when and we can call it up on the screen. It's, you know, one of the enclosures that it's listed there that says a qualified herptologist is required all in capital letters to be on site at all times while construction and clearing is taking place. And I said, you know, I agree with everything that this gentleman just said, and I know Hank does a very, you know, conscientious job, and I'm glad he's there because we got all these different time frame windows, you know, and keeping all that straight would be, difficult. But I know Hank would would do that, but I just don't know how we would comply or why we should be expected to comply. But it doesn't seem that the right answer is to ignore, you know, the capitaliz required to be on site at all times.
So I don't know, Tom or Greer, if you can answer this. So are there any periods in addition to what Tom just described where there could be construction or clearing activity that aren't included in what you just said? Would there be other activity being performed where
well see the the the we had the same requirements on the Bunker Hill project.
Not everyone particular was involved in that project. It's for your awareness. Well, once once the once the encroachment fence and the sedimentation control fence is installed by the contractor, which delineates the work zone of the project, and Hank has done his initial sweeps of the project, the only time that Deep required them or Hank to perform required sweeps was if there were changes in stages of construction. If if they went from say the the public works side of the bridge and then moved over to the park entrance road side of the bridge and there hadn't been any activity there for a number of weeks or or months that Hank would have to do redo a survey of that side before the contractor would be allowed to perform any work. I ideally it's it's the the primary thrust of Hank's involvement in the project is in the early spring when they when they hibernate, when they come out of hibernation and and start becoming active and going to their their summer habitat, if you will. And once that is is out of the way and we have the the work zone contained, then it's it's Hank basically coming down on a weekly basis to monitor the site, make sure that there the encroachment fence is still in good, is still intact, hasn't been disturbed, and to do a a general sweep of the project to make sure that none of the affected species have gotten back within the work zone
and that and that and that has been the working relationship that we've had between our office Hank and Don McKay of NDDB Deep
an expert and just read through the stuff and and you know this is a deep requirement you know stay under their jurisdiction and their regulation. So
you know I don't know that it's necessarily the town's responsibility to monitor you know the deep regulations for protection of those most the reptiles you know I was just reading through the what it's for I think like the wording it says the qualified her herpatologist must be hired to work on site with your construction crew during the project construction period to be sure that turtles will not be unintentionally killed during the moving of heavy equipment and tree clearing.
And then another
deep down at the bottom of page two or three when you start with site for the entire duration.
Yeah, it doesn't say it at all times. It just says required to work and be on site with your construction crew during the project construction period. I think it's just the way it's worded. It doesn't It just means that he's required to like, you know, work work at the site, not just
if if we were required to have Hank there on site all day every day of the project duration, it would cost more than the construction of the project.
That's why I'm asking the question.
No, I I know I understand the reasoning why.
I c I copied and pasted out of this so I know the wording is correct. required to be on site at all times while construction and clearing is taking place.
Yep.
So, I assume there's going to be construction and clearing going on most days of the project. You know, I don't know. I'm asking the question, what does that line mean? That that's that was my question. I gave you the best answer that I could. I think the only person that could expand upon that question to fully satisfy your question would be to ask it of Hank Gruner.
Never
because he he's the one that works specifically in touch with Deep.
So, I think to Greg's point is that's a based on Deep Review that was a requirement that they implemented. That's not necessarily a requirement that Weatherlands is implementing. So it's not necessarily up to us to ensure that it's all durable. We could make it a requirement of our permit. I think to the point of it then costing more than a construction. I personally wouldn't advocate for that but it may be something for us to discuss. I don't know. I'm confident that if Hank's involved, there's going to be the right thing happening than just you'd rather ask the question up front
then, you know, after we get halfway in, why didn't you do this? It's clearly spelled that way here. and and I and I fully understand your concerns and that was the reason why we retained the services of Hank early on in design because Hank Gruner wrote the manuals that Deep follows to write their regulations.
Yeah. Okay. I guess my third question, you know, involved the clearing to support the job. And Eric, one of the reasons I think you're here tonight is I know that public works did the clearing over at
he Bunker Hill Bridge and I didn't know if they were planning to do that again at the Bunker Hill Bridge.
No, at the Yeah.
Okay. And so what so what as I was you know trying to get ready for tonight, one of the things that that I thought made me feel better was somehow I got the opinion just like you described that we were going to put in the containment you know barriers and that sort of thing first and then that would confine find the area that we were going to go in and clear so that we'd be clearly demarked where clearing should take place. again, not smart enough to know if there's any requirements that we would need to cautions or any of that kind of stuff. But as I look through the sequence of construction, you the the first step is performed clearing and grub around the site as necessary. And I thought if there were any concerns from a wetlands point of view, they weren't specified in that guidance. And I could find no other guidance in all the the stuff that I saw online that might help you as the public works supervisor understand other than leave some trees you leave these big trees in as much as you can. so I was concerned about that. How how you know what kind of precautions do you take? And maybe it's it's none at all. I don't know.
Sorry. the but I went, you know, I was thinking back to I was expecting step one to be install a tracking pad to keep all the the junk that we are down there working from going up on on the roof. And I didn't I couldn't find anything in the documentation about putting a tracking pad up there. And and it reminded me of a of a house that was being built, 422 Lake Road. I tried to go back in the archive and it didn't go back that far yet. I guess we're still working trying to get there. But step one in that procedure was install a tracking pad. Step two is install the driveway and do all this before any of the construction gets done. And sure enough, they didn't install a tracking pad. They didn't install the driveway. And the wetlands were right up against the road. And they drove all these trying to haul logs and that out of there through the wetland, got stuck in the mud. It was just a real mess. And so going to be the same time of year that you're trying to do the clearing over there in for the bridge, I think. And I was trying to figure out where the
guidance is to you, you know, are we going to put a tracking pad in, it's not not listed in there. And but at least when it said install tracking pad and I saw no tracking pad and I saw all the ruts of that, I said, "Joe, this isn't, you know, right." and he said, "Yeah, I'm working with the guy trying to get him to do that." And it was a long and painful process. You know, the house was about done built before they got the tracking fan in. I'd like to not have that happen. And that's what I'm looking for. If if I could answer that question. the the tree clearing that was done by the town of Andover public works department on Bunker Hill was done specifically for the relocation of the aerial utilities. Nothing more. The trees that were not affected by the relocation of the aerial utilities were then taken down by the contractor within the stipulated time frames of the contract. The same scenario was discussed with Eric Anderson for the for this project and the trees. We we had several meetings with Frontier
and Eversource regarding where we could put the utility poles because unfortunately early on in the design the department decided to forego going through the 4 process with the FHWA that would have enable enabled us to take partial takes of the town park and relocate the utilities there for a temporary condition before bringing them back to the edge of the roadway in a permanent alignment. So as such we have very limited we can we can only work within the confines of the street line and dot the the we had several meetings. the the town marked out the trees that would need to be trimmed and/or cut to facilitate the relocation of the utilities and those trees were to be cut down. Any remaining trees that need to be removed as part of the construction project to build to build the bridge will be done by the contractor within the given time frames as stipulated in the contract as well as the grubbing of the trees that the town would be cutting. We are not disturbing any of the root systems. all the stumps are are remaining in place for the contractor that's going to build the bridge to remove and at that point that's when the sedimentation controls etc would be put in place. we have no pro typically on these types of projects the fed local road projects we don't incorporate tracking pads into the projects simply because the bridge is closed and under full detour. So we can con we can sort of confine the areas of the mud within the project limits. if the town wants to move in that direction of
having us install tracking pads of some sort, we can certainly do so via construction change order if that would make things more palatable to you, if that's the correct wording. the only activities that will be going on within the project site between now and April 1st hopefully is going to be the total relocation of the overhead utilities and poles that are affected. So that as of April 1st, the site can be turned over to the contractor completely and he can build the project within the given time frame we have for the project rather than we went through this scenario on debunker hill project. We had everything ready for the utilities to do their relocation. The contractor came in, put in his coffer dams under the guidance of Hank Gruner. We were sitting there ready to go, ready to drive micro piles, on April 1st as planned. And the first utility poll got put into place on April 16th. So, we were a month behind schedule because of utility delays right off the bat. And I think that Frontier is a little bit more motivated
on Longill to get their utilities relocated on time because unfortunately at the intersection of US Route 6 and Longill working back down towards the public works department. Their telephone poles are encased within the sidewalks that were built. And when those poles come out, they would be responsible for the replacement of the sidewalk, which they don't want to be. And we struck a deal that when they pull their poles, we're going to replace and repair those individual segments of sidewalk. So it'll be a continuous blend from Route Six all the way down to the entrance of the park.
So who determines which trees need to be removed by the town
to the construction? That was that was done by Eric and I believe the former public works director and with the guidance of Frontier staking out where they were proposing to put their utility poles so that the poles and the crossarms would remain within the street line so there would be no aerial trespass. I can add to that if you if you'd like. go ahead. Okay. Well, I'll just No, I'm trying to, you know, certainly I didn't consider the fact that the road was going to be closed. That might that's a difference. the issue that I learned was important about the tracking pad over this house on Lake Road was all the muck that got carried out on the road, washed down the road after it rains into the storm drains and into the lake.
Yes. And I'm just so I'm trying to figure out in my head. Again, not an expert on any of this stuff, but does all that is all that mitigated by the fact that the roads closed? No. I guess the rain doesn't care whether the road's closed or not. And but I you'd have to go over and look at at the site. And I guess I trust the engineers that are out there making sure that, you know, as they say, they can can find the site a little bit better. Maybe that all made sense. But
hat was my concern on asking the question is what I saw over on a previous one and
it was nice that we had enough detail in there that when they didn't do it, we said, you know, step one was this, you didn't do it. What's up with that?
No, I I totally agree.
Okay.
to qu some of your concerns, I got here November 1st. One of my first duties here was to the trees were already posted for the maximum or the minimum of 10 days that they need to be for the that the former public works director was a tree warden. He posted them. nobody we didn't have any issues. So I was then told that they need to come down sooner than later because of the relocation of the poles for Frontier. my last job and I'm sure Bill is that your name? Is that his name? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm trying to
No, no, no, no. Please. I've been called worse.
My last job at Coventry, I from what I've noticed, Frontier is a nightmare for me or Eversource. I don't know if you're familiar with the Rotary in Comry over by South Street where Daily Road come together. For four years, a telephone pole sat and it we had to pave around it because they wouldn't come and pull it out. So, it was essential that we had to get those trees out and get them out quick because you have a small window with these guys and if you don't meet that window, you're all done. so the trees were posted. We when we cut them, we cut them la last month. the ground was frozen. All the trees were laid down in the parking area, which is all millings. we left the stumps because we didn't want to grub anything out of there, disturb the bank. we didn't need an anti-tracking pad to come in and out of there because we were in the park itself. The park actually has a
paved area required, I believe, to come in and out of there. every night we cleaned up our mess, so there was nothing, no runoff or anything. and every the trees that didn't need to come out that weren't going to be in the way of the wires had to come out because the the existing trees that we did cut out actually grew into those trees and those trees probably would never come back. So I heard there was some discussion about all the trees we took out of there and that's why we had to do that. Y Do you anticipate additional tree or heavy vegetation removal during the project?
not on us. We're That's We're We're done with as far as I know at this point. We've the public works has done all we were required to do there.
again, I guess the contractor is going to be taking the stumps out, remediating the whole area and everything. Yes, the the the contractor will be removing the stumps as one of the first courses of action as well as removing the trees that need to be removed on the downstream side of the bridge and doing the stumping on that side as well. And I guess there's one tree that of major size that used to be a iconic town of Andover landmark with the with the the swing rope on it that fell into the river and our contractor will be removing that from the river as well.
Are you installing the s fence prior or after stumping?
The s fence gets installed prior to stumping.
Okay. So we shouldn't have any sediment washing when they pull some set of
pardon.
So we shouldn't have any sediment washing into the the
No, no, no. There the the the site should be fully contained with for sedimentation control prior to the stumps being pulled. No,
that was all my questions.
motion to approve application 25- 15.
Second motion. All in favor?
I pass.
Thank you. That's it for that.
Thank you everyone. Thank you. Happy New Year.
Yeah, happy new year. Good luck.
Thanks.
All right. All right. So the next one permit application IWWC25-16 Hansen County and DW application for permit IWWC1 general permit for work in and around various range systems and per that's the existing permit Joe
what
it says letter B permit will expire March 6th. 2026.
Yeah, that's the 23-01.
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, well. so again, I came into this, I think this is very progressive. the last town commentary I worked for, they were trying to get something like this through. they were having a lot of problems. around Pentry Lake with this and there's a lot of discussion over this and I think this is this is a a good idea for everything we do. We're kind of under a microscope now with everything that we do. and I believe in following the rules just like everybody else. The town is not exempt as much as people think they are. the only time again this is more for like a maintenance issue. clearing ditches doing maybe working around outlets for catch basins things of that things of that nature. Some retention pond you know clearing out depending on to what degree we have to do. again, this is more of a maintenance permit than anything else. I just like to get it renewed. So, like I said, we're we're playing by the rules like everybody else has to. there's a lot of fingerpointing lately as everybody sees. And, I just don't want to be that guy. Everybody saying, "Oh, the town's doing it. Why can't I do it?" So, I want to I I want
to do it I want to do it legally and I want to do it right. If I if I think it's out of our scope of of doing this, then I'm not going to do it and I'm going to come back here to you guys and maybe take a take on a bigger permit if needed. I'm very I'm very good on communication. I like that. like I told Joe, you know, some of my bigger projects that, you know, cleaning dishes and things like that, I'll take a before and after picture just so you guys can see this, you know, scope of work I'm doing. if we need to, we'll put, you know, coffer dam, you know, check coffer dams up for if we're cleaning like really long lengths because what happens is when you clean these dishes out, all of a sudden now they're bare and you get all sorts of silt and run, you know, running so I we could put a few stone check dams in there. We really don't get if we have to, we'll put silt fence in. if we get in, you know, we building catch basins, we cut out around the catch basins and pull them out and fix them, put them back in. A lot of times we don't pave them that day because we have to let them sit a few days. a lot of times we put like a filter fabric over
the top of that so nothing washes into the catch basin. there are we do have and I can't think of the name of them. actually make something. It's like an actual sediment catch for inside a catch basin. But the problem is with those, they only work on the flat top ones and not the curve back cuz it the it doesn't catch the water coming behind the in the throat with the catch basin. So depending on what work we're doing, I I always try to at least get something over that so I catch the majority of the of the silt running in. but that's about the extent of our the permit for this. Well, I appreciate your comment on, you know, I guess I just recently gave up chairman the planning and zoning and one of the things that I tried very hard to
do was hold the town to a higher standard than we held the public to because I didn't want to hear about why can the town do that and I can't do that. And my concern with with the existing application whatever you know the permit that you've got now is that there were not enough things coming to the inland wetlands. When you bring an application to us, I always learn by reviewing it, asking questions, and that sort of thing. If we never hear from you or rarely hear from you that that doesn't provide us that opportunity to learn. So I'm, you know, I'm I'm happy to go with what we do, but that's the downside that I think we as a commission miss is the opportunity to engage with you, learn, and be able to do our jobs better. So, I know one of the things that when we approved this, it was we didn't want to spend a lot of time having to take everything to the commission. I can't remember the last time. I don't
think we've brought anything to the commission since that application was come in. Joe's briefed us on a couple of things where, you know, public works is is talked to Joe about it. but I do think we lose a little bit of the the healthy growth because you know that I think is you can you can attend a lecture on inland wetlands rules all you want but until you start digging into the specifics and figuring it out you're not really learning and u I don't mind using the town to facilitate our learning but but that's that's my thought. I'm happy to hear that you say that you want to hold yourself to at least a highest standard as anybody else here. And I think that's
important.
Well, it could because I know well certain like this this application's posted online. So I know with the other one I posted a few things but with your before and after pictures. I could add those under it. you know, like a date and a project and maybe a little description of what you did along with the pictures and then maybe you can kind of
you can as dedicated as you may think I am when it's yours I go, "Okay, Joe, that's yours. You know, when it's ours, I'll do a little bit more work on it."
I think the establishment of this permit was a a good thing. I think prior to that we weren't hearing from, you know, public works about things that were going on and I don't know if they were in contact with the former buttons agents, but if they were, that person wasn't relaying it to us. So, I I think it had established a better protocol between the commission the agent and and public works.
I like this. When I read this, I thought this was very like progressive. Again, they're trying to do this in Coventry and they're just it's getting this all over the place because the lake has the sewer over there now and they have clamped down on a lot of stuff down there. So, every time we would go down there to work, it was it was very like it was horrible. So, they were trying to put something like this in place over there and they just keep meeting with resistance.
Well, I agree that it's aggressive. My question is, is it a little too aggressive? Maybe. Maybe it is. Maybe it didn't.
Progressive. progress. No, at all not I apologize it's this fast.
Okay. Yeah. Well, it it certainly
gives you gives you a lot of latitude to do a lot of stuff without coming here and
it hadn't been a problem yet.
We talked about it at the last meeting. Why is nothing come to us? They said, "Well, we've lost a bunch of employees over at public works. We're not getting done the jobs that we might have been doing." Maybe that's got it. I don't know. I I look I look forward to hearing from you on some of the projects.
I like the idea of putting in the photos too because in the event that you know say you both go on to bigger and better things whoever takes your place we have those examples to say these are the kinds of things that fall within the permit you know and I think it helps public help too if they're interested to have some you know increased transparency. I I'm fine with you know the general maintenance you know like mowing rough mowing you know I don't know if you guys use a peon or something like that or detention products things like
they have a like a ster and then we have over the rail mower but the problem with that is you can only get so far because if it's wet you're going to run you're going to run up so a lot of times you either have to wait till dead of summer to get in there when better condition or
just kind of m the outside edge
if you have a tree bed I don't know they can write down here at at you know 316 and school road you know if you're mowing on the edge like I'm fine with that kind of stuff or you know if a tree comes down goes in the stream you know I'm fine with that but if we're doing you know I don't know head well repair you know a new pipe across the road obviously I think not ever have to come to us even though it's still you know routine maintenance for you guys
and I think culvert well I think when there was replacements they were coming right it was that wasn't included under the maintenance or
well there was a certain side.
That makes sense.
So like obviously
24 replacement of clover drainage pipes 24 in or less in diameter that do not contain a water course.
Okay.
And again though I can take pictures so you can see it. I mean there's a lot of infrastructure out there that's all metal that the the bottoms are rotten out and they you know they have you have to replace the whole section. It's not. So I can take a before after and I can take like one dur while we're doing it and one after as well just to so you kind of have an inkling of of what we're doing.
I think and I'm stretching my memory here but when we talked about the initial permit that you're seeking to renew. So wetlands whether they're man-made or natural fall under wetlands. and so a lot of these systems create wetlands where there may not have previously been a wet and not that we don't care about those. but we would put you know natural water forces or wetlands that are involved in these systems as a higher you know priority for the commission to be involved in in the you know the wetland and the technical soil sense that's being generated by you know standard water things like that. And again, if you guys have any questions, concerns about anything I'm doing, please feel free to reach out to me. I'm I'm I'm very flexible. If you think I'm doing, you know, I don't know all, I if I don't know it, I'm going to go find the answer out to it. I'm not
I'm I'm not that guy. I got I have plenty of resources that I can I can tap into to find out what what the best course of action would be to take for that job. And I'm not going to go do it and say, "Oh, I should have did it. Oh, I should have did XYZ first." I I don't start my I don't start my jobs like that. Like like you were saying with the anti-tracking path, I know what that is. And if it was something that mucky and murky and everything like that, I would have I would have done something totally different with that cuz that cuz again that that can end bad all around the end of the day. It just doesn't people think, oh, I'm just coming in and out in the mud and stuff like that. Well, all of a sudden, you know, somebody's got a pond down the road with their prized fish and killed them all because they're Well, no. just
that.
Yeah. It becomes a whole
that little problem now became a bigger problem.
Are there any language changes that you guys would like to see the new permit?
No. Okay. how long are we looking to did we want to change the time for it for how long the permit was it? Five years before
three you guys pick for just to see how it was going. I don't know.
I'm in favor of keeping three years.
I think you guys okay with that?
I agree.
Keep looking up at you. I don't know.
I think there you can do up to 10 and then you'll have to redo the current which I mean it'd be basically the same as what you're doing now, but it's like you can extend it up to 10 years. So you get another so we have to extend it one more time after then it would have to be a new permit but I mean it's basically the same process then
yeah I think three years ago we revisit it and make any changes at that point.
So I'll make a motion to approve permit 25-16 as written for 3 years a second. All those in favor? I Okay. Motion pass. Cool. Thank you. You guys are all set. Appreciate it. Thank you.
All right. New business. Any business?
No, nothing new.
Everybody's quiet for Christmas. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Okay. Other business, new training requirements for weapons, CTPA2-73.
Yeah, that was just a public act. It came into effect in October. printed out some copies of the section that applies to us and it's basically I think it requires it requires everybody on this on the well permission to take the D training course.
Do you know is this the same training that's been previously offered over the years or is this is it training?
It's they redid it but it's the same it's that same one that comprehensive one that you can do online and
say I did it a few years ago. So I've been wondering do I need to redo it?
I think it was what did it say every four years said yeah any member staff person serving to complete training for you got to complete it by January 2027 and then once every four years after or once a term if but our terms aren't aren't longer than four years. Then there's a disclaimer that yeah failure of any member or staff person to complete training shall not affect the validity of any action of an ismood agency. It's required, but
if any decisions have been made.
Yeah.
And you could read a picture.
What's that?
You could.
Yeah. I probably I probably should redo it because it's been a while. But it's been over four years, but I'd have to do it for Windom anyway.
Except I mean, as reading it, seems like it doesn't matter if you did it before. Yeah.
Can I ask a few questions about these or is this like a how how is this training program laid out with like a question or you read something and then you got to answer a bunch of questions about what you just read? Is that how it works
from? Because I think I haven't done the newest version of it. I don't think
so. right here, you know, and I took this at least, you know, one program, but and I thought it was very good. Program consists of eight modules made designed with text and video content, interactive activities, all kinds of stuff. So, you know, it'll have a little pop quiz in the middle of it. And
yeah, there are blown away that you have to pass, but you can keep as needed. the
Oh, you got to pass the quiz before you.
Yeah, but it's one of those like if you don't pass it, you can just keep returning until you pass it the next module.
It's not a like a particularly difficult if you paying attention. It's you just go through it and then but it's good. Yeah. Tell you like how to run a meeting and then it's got some of the signings and site plan things like that. It'll take some last time it took a while.
A while maybe hour module.
Yeah.
So it's like eight hours total already.
Right. Take over. That's what I did. You know, I didn't do one day or something and try to pick out.
And the, you know, the thing that disappointed me when I got to the end because it was very good. I want to go back and make copies of certain slides and I couldn't figure out how to do that.
So you would have to take the whole course over again to get to the slide that you want and I said I'll wait for a while. It'll it'll come up as a requirement again as you go.
That's it. I can share that feedback and see if it's essential or if they could post. Cool. Is this telling us where how to do it?
The registration.
Oh, the registration.
Yeah.
I just did a budget worksheet also for 26.
Yeah, that was due like Thursday, I think. So, there was no I I didn't know if we guys wanted to add or change anything. And I had discussed moving our office supplies budget to the building department by buying it because we don't I don't like bill for our own sheets of paper and stuff.
So,
so I just realized that training for a second, we have the whole year to complete that.
Yeah. Okay. I was my brain was thinking by January 27th of this year
got a little a little paddic internally but okay that's
we have a whole year to do this whole
27
and again I think it only said one member on the commission
that was the former rule that everyone does
but at the same time like previously in the event that everyone didn't there's not really any real application
in case I can't
yeah I mean our commission is going to be shut down and take it back over by you know on January 2nd if Phil fails to complete it yeah
so this has taken our budget from $400 currently to 1400
I don't know I didn't even
I don't think that correct but that was 1450 15. That was the budget that I I had.
But you know, like it says July July of 25 to June 26.
Is that what was
336? Now the budget's 800. I don't I don't know what those columns are mean.
What is the fiscal year? Is it
he fiscal year? First of July.
So the budget would then be for July 126 to June 30th. Yeah. 2011. Now, maybe that number is what we've expended so far. I don't know.
This is what we had last year.
I usually just Okay.
All I do is check the khaki wick membership and make sure they didn't raise their due and then put the same number in from the previous that was confusing because I don't think that
I'm guessing the first.
Yeah. Expenses to date maybe. a copy of that.
I'm pretty sure last year it was last two years.
Yeah, if I remember correctly changed.
Yeah, there was there was 1450 budgeted just for me which was a lot. training it was est or estimated but then for 2526 I was at 800 350 for training 200 for office supplies which Joe said you're going to move and then 65 for memberships and 1415 yeah total for 2526 so I think you want to keep it the same
I don't know
ith the exception of moving office supplies
yeah I don't know if that I don't want to move it but yeah
I'll just have to figure it out I'll talk to Lyn and see if she can put it on there. I don't know. Worst case, we just keep them in there. And
oes this does that training cost money?
No.
The only thing that cost me lecture is we did that that class.
Yeah. Certain things like that that pop up.
If you wanted to do a workshop or something like that, there's money for that,
right? Which training is a bunch of 350 for that. So,
yeah.
So,
Oh, yeah. That's that must be This is expenses then. We could try taking off, but
it must be because $65. I'm pretty sure that training was 65. Did you take it too, Jim? I know. I took it.
Okay. Did you get to it? I said I didn't want to take it, but I wanted to get the the results.
Okay.
That was an option.
Okay.
I never did get the suppose. I forgot about that.
I'm just curious with the reduction in the board foot. Does that still provide room in the event we have, you know, public hearings and things like that to pay or is that just covering?
Yeah, I think it went based off of actual for 23 24. They looked at what I was I think that's what we kind of do for the rest of them, too. So,
because we cancelled a few meetings, so we don't we didn't have
Yeah. But yeah, if you have an extra if we have like special meeting or a public hearing or something, we might have more than
I guess that's money.
And ultimately like if you're under in training or office supplies as long as like your department as a I'm going to call it department like the commission as a whole of the budget isn't under.
I mean that's why you know we could probably keep the office supplies on there just in in the case that
I don't know something happened
or you guys do training or you do whatever you order. So maybe we'll keep that on there just in case we have to move that 200
if that's okay with you guys.
Yep.
Are you good with the budget?
Yeah. Okay. I'm finally the way it is.
Do we need to motion to approve it or anything? Or is it even in our control to approve it?
Yeah. I don't Yeah. I don't know. I think we just submit it and they they approve it. I mean, you could motion, but I don't need to. All those in favor of keeping it the same motion like that.
It's documented that we were in a room. Yeah.
Not official motion. I don't know if we're allowed to. I don't know.
I think that's everything, right?
Did you have an agent before enforcement options?
no. There's What's the one? There was one on it was what's the shot? The one over by there's one over by the transfer station. I forget the number of it, but I got a call that the guy was doing some work back there. And I was going to meet with him this afternoon, but he had to work in Cape Cod. I guess he's does like utility work or something. And so I and then there was a bunch of snow on the ground. So we pushed it off till next week. So I'm going to go look over there for it was work in the upland view area without a permit. So I got to go chase him down. He was cooperative. So I go down there and I haven't been on the property yet. So
what's he doing down there?
I guess he was building using some gravel and stuff. He was building a flat area for his kids to ride their bikes or whatever down cuz it's it's like on a pretty steep hill. So, I think he was just making like a flat area for him. Like I said, I don't really know the full scope of it. filling in yet, I guess.
All right. Make a motion to adjurnn the meeting at say on Tuesday January 6th six.
Second.
All in favor?
I should pass.
Bye Jan.