all right we are on the record it is 6:05 PM Tuesday June 4th 2024 we're convening calling to order this third meeting of the Anover Charter revision commission we have in attendance Karen Mador myself jod gross Carol Lee and Patricia Billings Jeff Maguire absent at this point of the committee members is Adrien mandaville and we have members of the public Eric Anderson the cres here Adrien has joined us thank you members of the public the cres Eric Anderson who's hidden again Shannon Lowden of course and now I'm forgetting who it is at behind 798 3815 please remind me Leanne Hinson Leanne thank you all right call to order take an attendance sorry yeah Leanne if you can mute thank you and Katherine magaldi Lewis just joined thank you for coming so the first well the second agenda item after calling the meeting to order is public
speak so in no particular order Shannon nothing at this time for now thank you okay the cres I'm here for public listen I don't know about my wife just here to listen want to know what's going on thanks okay thank you Katherine nothing thank you Eric nothing at this time okay so that brings us to the main agenda item which is Leanne what's that Leanne Hutchinson sorry lean do you have anything to say okay I'm right now okay all right the main agenda item which at this point we're going to go through the list of action items that we delineated last week and get either a presentation or an update or whatever you have basically let's just see where everyone is and discuss things as appropriate see where we go next since my item was the first on that list what I'm going to do here is I'm going to share the screen like I did last week I don't see what are you folks seeing right now nothing just a plain old regular view okay there we now oh you're good you have multiple documents up though yeah well so there we go so we had well I had multiple documents because it actually made sense this had the list of items so the first item on the list here the dollar amounts to trigger Town meetings I actually conferred quite extensively with Eric on this which is why I invited him to the meeting so that the guy that knows what's behind these items can comment on questions so basically in section 303 the annual Town budget meetings and special Town meetings we have a number of conditions here a number of monetary conditions that
trigger a special town meeting and it was generally agreed upon that a lot of these things were too small or that the ideas that were involved were too limiting or out of date so the changes in here are to try to reflect the numbers that are more fitting for for what we see in the budget so just going down through the the few changes that we have here the issuance of bonds and all other forms of financing the terms of which are in excess of one year did not have any floor on it so if we needed to issue a bond for a dollar we needed to go to town meeting so we introduced the concept of putting a limit in here $50,000 or more and I'm going to go through all of these and
then we'll go back and and talk them so that just so that we can see all this in context related to that supplemental appropriation we went from a half of a percent to 1% and then in E what's the number what's the number on the 1% what's the dollar number Eric if you could so that depends on the budget in any one time but 805b basically states that it is the combination of the town's portion of the budget and the school's budget minus Ram so if you said 1% currently it would be 1% of around $9 million would be the cut off and half percent is half of that okay any other questions on that point I'll move on section e leases and or lease options again didn't have any floor on it so we added an excess of 50 ,000 and G which I think is one that that really makes the most sense because of the number of items that it covers the application for or participation in
any federal state or private grant program now what this had before was a limit on the value of the program and what we're changing this to is that we're looking at how much the town has to kick in if if we have a grant that we're applying for that doesn't require any co-contribution by the town free money it makes sense it it doesn't make sense to have to go to a town meeting to get approval of it we should just be able to move forward in any case if I understand this correctly any of these grants still have to go through the board of Selectmen before we can submit an application is that correct Eric that is correct so I am as the administrator I am authorized by the board of Selectmen to submit for any grant that does not require a town contribution anything that requires a town contribution requires the board of selectman's approval anyway okay and again we we put a a floor on this in
excess of $225,000 so any Grant where our portion of it is less than2 $ 5,000 again we wouldn't have to go to town meeting and that's it it's those one two three four changes thoughts opinions contributions so if I can make a couple comments chair is that acceptable to you AB absolutely that's why you're here Eric Okay so the the first is under 304 B supplemental Appropriations the reason why I'm suggesting we raise that to 1% from a half percent is really based on guidance from our treasure because our treasure does not like what we do at the end of each fiscal year and at the end of each fiscal year we take the individual line items that are overexpanded and we transfer money in from other line items that are under exended and the treasurer feels that that kind of violates state law and that what we should be doing is approving a supplemental appropriation for those particular line items you know so that they're under the
cap and then let everything else flow into unexpended fund balance which essentially accomplishes the same thing but that's what she thinks is the more legally correct way to do it in the state but the problem is is that because we run our budgets fairly tight it's not uncommon to have 100 or 150 individual line items at the end of the year that are over even though the overall budget is going to be you know hundred or $200,000 under and so often the total supplemental Appropriations would exceed a half of 1% but they're not likely to exceed 1% and if they do then that would have to go to town meeting if we did that now the treasurer still has to convince the board of finance that that is the way they should operate and that's on her to do that but that would enable that the second thing is when we talk about town grants I took a quick look through our grant folder and you know over the last say four years you know we've applied for somewhere around 35 grants and of those grants roughly 70% of them would fall under the $25,000 Town contribution threshold if you made that $50,000 only the top 10% which is essentially you know roughly one Grant per year would rise to the threshold of requiring a town meeting so from a governance standpoint setting that at 50,000 would be convenient remember it still requires Board of Selectmen approval if you set it to 25,000 you're looking somewhere around three on the average year somewhere three to four grants that potentially
require a town meeting but at least all the little stuff would not so that's all I had to say on those items happy to take any questions you have or members have a couple quick questions I I guess my own take on this is that it I would I would really I guess I would rather see us around 50,000 on the grant stuff personally seeing that you know how much we've been doing in Grants and been fairly successful at it you and the second thing I would say is that I personally would like to see a a kick that we when we start talking about leases that leases or purchases that are above $100,000 that instead of just going to town meeting it has to go to a referendum I you know I'll be honest I I'm extremely frustrated about like our tractor purchase that should have that should have went to that
should have went to the whole town the idea that we approved it at a meeting I just I'm extremely frustrated with at that was a town meeting that anyone could have gone to right well yeah anybody could go on any of them but you know basically you talk about a very small contingent making a decision and and then that was you know that's a $240,000 decision you know we're we're pushing a quarter of a million dollar investment you know right to a meeting that any Town resident could have attended and they chose not to but Jody it's not that people choose not to a lot of times candidly it's that they just can't go you have parents with kids you know that that can't they can't just run out at at 7 pm when they're trying to put their kids to bed you you know I think that's just common sense most of those meetings are attended by the people who really don't want to spend money really because that didn't seem like that was the vote last time in fact the problem we run into a lot of times is you have people that pack meetings that that you know want to spend money so oh that's funny I like that one I want to spend money Eric we we've wanted
to spend money well obviously we did I mean I'm not gonna get into thetive discussion and rehash it here but it's a perfect example why these things should go to a town the bigger numbers should go to town vot and Eric would did I'm sorry or someone here was it $9 million that's our Topline budget for the town between the two so and the and the and the regular town is n million okay correct the way section 805 reads is that it's the total budget minus the contribution to Ram to the regional budget is the number you use for that half percent or 1% or in some places 0.25% appropriation well then you're pushing up against Eric's or Adrian's number of $100,000 to go to referendum but when you sit and think about that if you talk about a $100,000 expense you know you talk about the tractor as a perfect example you know the tractor is a you know is nearly 2third of a mill you know this isn't a small expense for the average taxpayer that we're spending well we can get into all the details related to it's it's not appropriate or it's appropriate and where it should go but when you're saying you want to go to referendum you're just adding more costs and more
issues onto the town okay so I would ask I would go back to Bob and Bob your numbers I don't have a problem with your numbers then yeah 1% I'm also going to step in here say Adrian we're not going to relitigate the decision that was made already and just for the sake of of of argument that meeting was one of the best attended ones that I've seen in a long time so yes there's a minority of of the town that participates but for that particular meeting people were better represented than than I think most items and it was a very close vote and that's my point imagine if you actually had more of the town's people being able to participate in that meeting it was a
very short notice for meeting meeting you know and it was a and that's the other issue I mean even if you even if again as a parent or as a as an adult with a a busy schedule you know trying to take time off at the last minute to to go to a meeting that literally is you maybe five or six days away by the time I get the postcard is kind of tough sometimes so and for for context how many typical referendum in town how many partic what's percentage of participation there a typical one I don't know would probably be I think our average is probably 50 people for referendum referendum oh no I'm I'm sorry I'm Sor talking about budget a budget meeting yeah sorry I don't somewhere between 140 and 300 I think probably on average that's correct it depends on what the mill rate is going to be so if our mill rate is going up substantially a couple of Mills then we do get a larger turnout okay yeah I liked Bob your your numbers I thought they were fine as presented well they're really Eric's numbers he's he's the guy that's in the thick of this right he and I discussed these and fleshed them out and kicked it around until something made sense all right if there's no other discussion on
this then it's going to be you know this is these changes will eventually be in the package of what we submit to the the board of Selectmen and that that's that all that I have to say on are so you're making this as a motion because if if you are then I would make a motion to adjust the the you know to add a to add a line that over $100,000 we go to we go to a referendum and where is that in this section Adrian tell us where this this it's not that's the point that's the problem it's not in the section we don't have a trigger for this you know ell Adrian let me play with your thing because $100,000 you know five years from now 100 you know we have a $9 million and you know 1% is what $90,000 should there be something in our town Charter that says something over 2% or something over 3% should go to referendum is that is that where you're headed yeah I think that's that's perfectly acceptable you know and honestly I'd even find middle ground and
say we do 1.5% you know well I'm going to suggest that it would be inappropriate to try to come up with wording or numbers here on the fly on a completely new item well Bob Bob I don't think that even your writing or your changes or the end all be all I think what you're doing is you're trying to come up with things to sit there and address and get into the draft report so you know you can put forth a motion we can put forth a motion on your potential changes to the tra the the the charter and then the draft has to be presented to us down the road we all have to approve that draft from the attorney or from whoever is gonna write it I recommend the attorney exactly Adrian and if Adrien wants to make a motion to put something in the charter for a referendum vote at I agree with Jody 2% of the total budget then something else we would vote on if we
did one and a half that would be you know one it'd be 135,000 which which basically is a third of a mill anything over a third of a mill so yeah maybe we should keep them as two separate items though I mean if you're you know prove what Bob and Bob did and then there's another item that I think we're we're trying to add to the list which reasonable I think Adrian's bringing up a good point it's just a question of what's the right number to say boy this is a this is substantial to go to referendum I don't think any of the numbers you listed Bob hit that threshold right so Adrian is talking about a number that would require going to referendum that's not what we're talking about here under special Town
meetings that's a separate section it's really a separate subject and that's why it what I was going to say Jeff when you stepped in was Adrien you feel strongly about this I want I want to suggest that we not deal with that particular item right now I want Adrien to go away figure out where it fits in in the charter write his draft and then we we discuss that at at the next meeting okay that's fine I guess my point is this is about triggers for spending that's really that's really what we're addressing it wasn't about necessarily does it fit in this particular line it's about triggers for Town meetings referendums spending spending within the charter and how and how we address that okay I want to take a step back from this because there's something else that I was thinking along these lines here we are at the third meeting we have a hard limit date in which to complete the changes and submit the first draft to the board of Selectmen and we already have a significant list of items that we agreed to tackle the first meeting deliberately included a public hearing
and the public was free to contribute their thoughts suggestions recommendations this process cannot be open-ended okay we can't continue to accept further submissions for additional changes just as they you know we have to draw a line somewhere well I agree I agree with you but when this was originally discussed and and this was something that Eric you know talked about you know this is something that was brought up as triggers for referendums and voting you know so I did not I do not feel that this is something separate if you're talking about you want it separate now because you want go to it because you're saying well it's a different section of the charter then that's fine but the point is it all fell under the same it fall under the same umbrella this wasn't this this wasn't something me trying to be open-ended
this is trying to me address something that I thought we were already on the path to address so it really does fall under the same umbrella because if we are increasing the amounts for the issuance of bonds increasing supplemental Appropriations to 1% of the budget putting a threshold in to push something to referendum is just I think that that would be appropriate too because that way it gives the voters taxpayers in town certain amount of time to obtain an absentee ballot and plus the hours of 6:00 AM to 8:00 pm voted a referendum all right Jeff you are more familiar with the order of these things than I I I defer to your suggestion or recommendation as to how to proceed at this point I would recommend making a motion that outlines the changes you want to make and then someone will second it we'll have further discussion and then we'll vote so if you just review the changes that you were you would discussed and then I would sit there and I would go back you already asked Adrian to come up with this the area that he believes that the referendum issue 100 thou the 2% or one and a half percent whatever that number is we address that next week so I because I don't anything you have just as a point of order does that that charge to to Adrian also require a motion and and and a vote or can that just be the way no no just put it as an agenda item on next week that you know that I'll put forward something and we vote on it and that's
that all right so simp one enough who wants to make a motion then I'll put forward a motion to add the four recommended changes outlined by Bob with input from Eric can you list them sure adding issuance of bonds and all other forms of financing exceeding $50,000 in value changing any supplemental appropriation which exceeds 1% It was Prior previously 0.5% and changing any lease lease options adding a caveat in excess of 50 ,000 to which the town including the board is a party too and then the application for or participation in any federal state or private grant program striking the in excess of $2500 and shall require Andor local town of of Education to contribute in excess of $25,000 in kind in in section g I'll second his motion any additional discussion yes I'd like to make a amending motion I would change the 20 in excess of $25,000 in participation enter to such Grant programs to $50,000 and and I'll quickly explain why I feel that there are
multiple situations where we may have leftover money in a budget or we may have money in a contingency that that we can use we have an opportunity to get into a program $50,000 I think and you'll notice that I'm I try to be open on these things although I'm a fiscal conservative and I want us to you know be more aware of how we spend our dollars and let everybody participate in this particular case I'll say that $50,000 I think Falls within the purview you know of a of a a board of selectman and a board of finance and and especially now because we're getting so much better now at getting grants and we're using them much more often as everyone has noticed there's a bunch of things going on in town I think $50,000 gives us a little more room and and allows us to participate more so that would be my motion $50,000 amended I'll second that okay any additional discussion all in favor I I I I opposed okay it's unanimous all right so we'll move on to the next items early voting and dates of Elections that Karen and Patty took on I'm going to stop sharing my screen here share no but I can always send this to you guys afterwards I just I wrote everything up
can I interrupt real quick Bob I Karen's obviously gonna send this to you I sent something to everyone on the committee regarding the report from from that Hein actually did I think it would be be beneficial if we can take all the things that are being presented at the meeting and put them in a packet to then get attached to this particular meeting so that the public has the same thing we have that's all Mr secretary if that's a choice I'm gonna say no public can attend the meeting the public can view YouTube and I'm a volunteer well as a as a matter of policy I mean simply we just have to whatever what I've sent you what Karen's gonna send you you simply would need to forward those over I believe Carol am I correct that it's done now by Kate she'll actually put the packet up for you with the meeting yes she it
just has to get sent to her so literally all you'd have to do is put it in a single email Jody do you think that you could do that I would request that the commit send it directly there just like Bob sent it out to all of us and if it if we could add Kate to that distribution that would be better that's perfectly fine I'll I'll gladly resend mine to Kate but I I do think it's important that this stuff is out there for the public that's all and actually I believe it's actually believe it's actually required so we need to make available to the public anything that we have at a meeting period if we have a pack and we are it's on YouTube no that doesn't cut it Jody I'm sorry honestly well I'd have to say also any outside of a a formal meeting any communication that car that that exceeds four of us constitutes a quorum at that point so it has to be shared all right so I'm just going to need an email address to share it Karen did you get the did you get the email from me I believe I did okay so if you're going to share it with all of
us you would simply do that and then Carol can you just send her a quick email with Kate's yes I will thank you and Bob's then too right what's that those modifications you made those yeah anything that's presented tonight we all need to just add Kate to it and then in the future make sure she's on the distribution list as you noted Jody ep okay Karen okay as far as the early voting after research with and discussion with the register of voter we feel that it would be best to address early voting by adding the following section so adding section 210 for early voting the dates and hours for early voting shall be conducted as prescribed by the Connecticut General statutes the reason that we feel it should be left open and identified only as prescribed by State statutes so it eliminates the need for the TR revision if the number of days or hours that early voting polls are to be open were changed or if the early voting was
changed to include referendums exactly that's that's basically I'm sorry Karen will you sharing screen no I'm not oh okay I don't know how to do that so don't worry that that was that was fine I mean I think we shouldn't go into significant detail related to early voting right no it was succinct and basically said whatever the state does we follow perfect exactly I would I would make a motion then that we accept Karen's submission as you know as our next line item to go to the to go towards the report I'll second that any additional discussion all in favor I I I any opposed motion passes unanimously thank you Karen all right the next item here did the early voting cover the dates of the elections also they did not yes no but that was your assignment though hearing P that as far as section 203 we want to change to reflect the change from May to November Municipal elections which this would affect 203 a b c and d so as follow a on and after January 1st 2024 at the biannual municipal election to be held on Tuesday after the first Monday of November of the odd number years pursuant to section 1012 of this Charter and then the rest remain the same B at at the biannual election to be held on Tuesday after the first Monday of November 2023 and every four four years thereafter and that's only if U the clerk remains elected C at the biannual Town election to be held on Tuesday after the first Monday of November 2023 there shall be elected members the rest will remain the
same items C1 through six would remain the same and D all terms of office except as otherwise provided in this Charter shall commence on the 2 Tuesday following the November election and then the rest remain the same so you know like I said I'll submit his I apologize Bob was the was that do we have a separate line in that list for adjusting the adjusting to a line with ram that was separate I had that okay I'm sorry thank you that's okay did I'm sorry did someone make a motion to accept Karen's proposal I'll make a motion all right I'll second Carol any further discussion on this seems comprehensive moving to November is appropriate yeah okay all in favor I I any opposed no motion carries unanimously okay the next item there then is referendum voting align the Board of Ed and the budget timing with Hebron and that's Carol so after doing some research the only way to align so that we're able to comply with the state statute which is Ram referendum is the Tuesday following the first Monday in may we would have to move budget process right now the way that Hein rewrote their Charter in order to do is that the board of Finance not later than the third Tuesday in April holds a public hearing on the butt right after immediately after that well Board of Finance within a week they submit their they present their budget as they found after what they heard at the public hearing and then it just goes automatically to referend so it would eliminate our annual Town budget there would be no way that we would be able to have an annual Town
budget meeting because unless we were just to have the T the town budget meeting receive input like the board of Finance does and then automatically vote a referendum not take any votes as to whether or not to send it like we Curr we still have an annual Town budget meeting but we would have to bump for to finance up to their public hearing the beginning of April have our annual Town budget meeting middle of April and then if people make motions there at the annual Town budget meeting to eliminate something in the budget it would just automatically then go on that but that is the only way that we'll be and line and I don't disagree with the timing but the question that I've always had in these meetings is we we're still in we're still considering we have to have the budget meeting and the budget hearing can those two be combined can we work a way out to combine those two so what are you saying like combine the annual Tom budget meeting with the board of Finance public hearing yeah and then just and do that I was just saying if we still wanted to keep them separate or just totally eliminate P that the to well why couldn't that budget meeting meting town meeting hearing be a full-fledged which it is it's a board of Finance meeting and why couldn't they make adjustments on the Fly and get it approved I mean because that's what's going to referendum right they could that's how Hein does it they hold a public hearing the board of Finance receives the input they then if they feel the public input is appropriate they agree with it whatever they make their adjustments and then submit that
budget referendum Jeff what you were suggesting is actually like item nine of the things that we were covering merging the board of Finance public hearing and the town meeting aren't those one and the same what you were just yeah okay I mean I I would like to see that I mean the only the only concern I have Carol is people making changes and then what occurs with those changes and how do they get rolled into the budget you know what is the mechanism for us to do it effectively and efficiently so that it just gets processed right well that's why it's with the board of in he need just have the board Finance the public hearing and then that budget gets [Music] referend okay so they take input from the public but the public can't make any motions or reduce it so they can't so in Hein they can't say that again just explain it in a very basic way what happens in the Hein process okay so the board of Finance holds their public hearing not later than the third Tuesday in April they receive public input and within one week after that public hearing the board of Finance shall present a budget or vote by the annual budget referendum and that was really so just just a sto there for one second so in our process at the Town budget meeting individuals from the public can make a motion to decrease our budget right before it goes to
referendum so in he they're eliminating that correct okay but at the hearing the board of Finance can take public input and if necessary make adjustments immediately right then and there correct but it's just before it gets right so seven elected officials will make the decision whether or not to produce something that you know maybe members of public seem to G wrly on or they could just send their initial proposed budget directly to record okay I mean I like that I just don't know if I like that I think that's a cleaner way to process it and move it on and and I like the timing because you know the way we've done it for years is that there's a town meeting a a budget referendum for Ram
and then a budget referendum for the town so we have multiple events all coming within a three week four week time span I I I I like that I I don't know what everybody else thinks about it but I think that would be more efficient way of doing business and Eric if you're still on does that timeline sound unreasonable to you it you know I just i' guess I'd ask you that because you deal with Bo of Finance So based on that I started working backwards and saying okay how could you make that work so if you set the townwide budget referendum is the same day of ram referendum Carol I believe that's usually what around May 6 somewhere in there you you're saying for for what for Ram Tuesday following the first Monday in May so it varies this year it was the seventh right yes where it's been like the third of so it's G to be somewhere between essentially the earliest it could be was be May 2nd and then the late latest it could be theoretically would be May 7th or 8th actually seven
seven okay so you would have to back that up the townwide budget meeting to somewhere between April 15 and April 20th and then you could keep the language it says the referendum is then on the second following Tuesday aligned with the regional board of educ but we would have to eliminate the wording that says if the budget is defeated at the annual Town budget meeting then we would go back to another annual Town budget meeting the same day of the following week so I believe that was why it just goes straight from Finance public hearing to the referend so you would you would basically if we kept as much of our current system as we could you would be rolling the dice and saying okay assuming that the budget at the first budget meeting gets approved to referendum it would coincide with the ram referendum if it does not get
accepted if the the budget gets rejected then it would not coincide with it okay the only other option would be is that the annual Town budget meeting accept motions from the floor someone votes to eliminate budget line get a second and that passes great but not take a vote at the end as to whether or not to send the adjusted budget or the proposed budget from court of Finance referendum all we would do is take motions from the this would still give the taxpayers the W eliminate a budget line if they would like but it automatically would go to referendum but that would mean we would have to bump the board's Finance up the beginning of April for their public here and then we would have to follow the
board of finance and maybe that following so if they have the first Wednesday in April we would have the second Wednesday ail and then it would automatic you know that town meeting let the adjustments be made by the people then automatically go to refer not allow a I I very much like that idea because I think in order to get support for this we still need to leave in place the ability for them to make a reduction I agree so you know as long as that's not putting too much pressure on the board of Finance right now as it is Eric you're asking us for our budgets every Department in December that we have it to you by the beginning of January so you know that's giving time to have the board of Selectmen just review it and then forward on to the board of Finance for them to have their workshop right in in in my world the ultimate thing would it would move up by approximately two weeks when I would have to give the board of Finance their budget but that's well after I've developed my budget so what that does is that shortens any potential Review Time by the board of Selectmen under our current system the board of selectman still has to make by Charter certain decisions like what is the paying compensation for Town employees and they have to weigh in on the big picture items that the town wants to accomplish but that should be doable I I see no reason why it couldn't happen I I think the other advantage of this too is that it will put there is so much pressure put on I I don't know if
the other board selectman members felt it I certainly felt I think I did and I I certainly on the board of Finance I there was a lot of Heming and hawing about can this can this budget get through a town meeting to the full to the whole town so I think it's going to allow them to focus a little more on the bigger picture stuff and getting it through and and not get dug down on the nuances of is this going to get to a full Town vote because I think a lot of times we we put a budget together and we thought this is the right budget for the town this is the right number that we need but we don't know if we can get through step one to get every everybody to have a fair vote on it so I think it actually will will be good for them in a way and I think the process can work very
well all right so walk through the process again Carol just so it's clear for me because I'm sitting there thinking that I just want the board of Finance to have an open meeting in the end to not not finish it does not close until a budget is ready for referendum so that you can meet all your timelines that that's in my head so what would we be doing just be basically moving the board of Finance process up by about three weeks because right now traditionally they have their public hearing on the budget the last Wednesday of April he then annual Town budget meeting one of the first 10 business days of May and then roll into a referendum second Tuesday following our annual Town budget we would just bumping them up by approximately three weeks and we would still do the same process Carol like kind of like we did with the charter commission here we could do we could do a you do a public meeting and then close the meeting and then the board of Finance would simply have a short meeting where they they've then motion to move it to a referendum correct no no so what we would do because you still want give the people the voice at annual Town budget meeting eliminate budget lines whatever they may do there so you would have the board of Finance public hearing let's say the first Wednesday of April but then and this is just putting these days out here second the second
Wednesday of April the annual Town budget week allow taxpayers their input eliminate a budget item reduce a budget item whatever they do if they get a second and those votes then obviously that's the budget that would go to referendum but it would be automatic to go to referendum okay it would not we would not be taking a vote of people send it to referend automatically go they fall in I I guess my only question was the logistics of do you have to have a vote whether it's by the port of Finance or by the public to move it to referendum if you're saying we don't need one then that's great I'm just want well I mean if we do that's something that we'd have to get from Denice if we would have to do that but I'm thinking if we put that language in the charter like Hein did where they present a budget so if we were to put that we the board of Finance has their public hearing then the town budget meeting presents the budget for vote by the annual budget referend so that language would be in the charter it's already dictating what the process so I am not sure what Dennis will say but it looks like Hein does it [Music] just okay but Hein goes right to referendum it goes straight so it's the board of Finance public hearing they present the budget for vote by the annual budget referendum so if we were going to go and have the board of
Finance public hearing the first Wednesday of April and then the annual Town budget meeting second Wednesday of April and then you know after whatever adjustments are made by the meeting then that budget is presented for vote by the annual budget reference be automatically sent so we're going to give a town meeting the ability to now so right now a town meeting they there there are motions made to reduce line items and to reduce budget lines correct we vote them up or down and then we move to vote on the entire budget correct so we anyone can make motions from the four they get a second and it passes then that adjustment is made the budget then at the end there's ballot to send that budget with whatever adjustments made by the town to a ref okay but Carol at that process you're saying it it's up or down adjustments can be made anyway budget go up the only adjustments can be to reduce or eliminate lions got it for argument sake why couldn't you make a motion to increase the budget if you're going to send it directly to right now if the public at the meeting think the budget is too low for some reason they have the ability to not send it to referendum and give the board of
Finance the mandate to increase it that's been done multiple times in the past when they cut the Board of Education more than residents liked so what happened if you did give them the ability to increase and decrease yeah but they currently to be clear though they don't currently have the option of decreasing the Board of Ed until after it fails so yeah but like resident state trooper say the board of Finance got rid of it and people said wait a second we really want this well as as you pointed out earlier Jody people could go and they could vote down the budget at the at the vote you know right but wouldn't it be more
efficient if they could add it at a town meeting or adjust it Upward at a town meeting I don't know if it's in the charter I'm trying to find it I don't know if it's step require that you can increase or if it is something that we can do by Charter put that in where they are allowed to make adjustments increasing the budget but right now I know that the only adjustments are allowed I mean I'll be honest with you I would not I personally would not support an increase on any or even the ability to increase I think the problem with that becomes there are there is sometimes a lack of understanding from the general public about the implications of numbers you know I mean part of it's going on right now and the public is completely I think
unaware on a lot of levels we have right now our budget for Ram our our what we're paying into RAM has been going down and so our budgets look really good right now but there's a population swing about to hit it's going to go the other way and over the next five years you're going to need give or take a million dollars so you know something in the neighborhood of three plus Mills to fix the budget as we go forward in the next fiveyear cycle so I think that there are fiscal issues that are much bigger than the general public could understand unless they're really were attending every meeting and that doesn't happen that's why we have representative bodies the board of Finance the board of Selectmen therefore I I I don't I don't agree with that and I think the other thing we already have protection for the board of education so they get through and and get a budget vote with their budget and I think in general I would say I I'm actually in favor of that on the town side but I I just don't see the town accepting it without a way to take it down a notch it's a very rare occasion where they come in and say they want more money right so it's 803 B it says the town meeting shall only have the power to reduce or modify but not increase the budget or any portion thereof there's also like Aden said protection for the
board of edit said the town meeting may not alter any specific items contained in the budget proposed by the local board vat so but you can but you can but you can go at the total for the Board of Education and that's happened in recent meetings well right so it has happened where the board of finan just you know 5% or 10% okay but listen my my my whole my whole thought process here is simpler less less less issues you know we don't want to make this more difficult and I'll go to Adrian's point of the the RAM and people not understanding I I don't I don't believe that I think people are smart enough to get it and
the issue with that Adrian's addressing I don't believe is fully fleshed out because I don't believe the numbers that our school is providing line up exactly with the way that the numbers line up with maror and Hein so it's it's a you know the sky just just for clarification when you say numbers you're talking about population population yeah okay we're not talking about we're not talking acal budget number because I no no no no the budget I I understand the total budget but the reason why we've currently had a decrease is because our population has fallen and there's there's a fear and there's people saying that our numbers are going to increase you know significantly and I've asked at the last meeting to get the numbers from the Board of Education to align with the other board of education so to make sure that we're not we're not counting our preschool kids we're not counting some things the other schools are not counting so we understand where our population Falls truly and I I understand there's some concern and it's it's it's it's legitimate I just don't think it's as much as we're saying I think we got to really get our number alignment and that's a different issue that's not for the charter so let's just let's just move on to I try to be simple Carol one sorry Jord one thing Carol why why couldn't we just have one meeting and consolidate the meeting the hearing and the meeting and and I don't I agree
with Adrian no up because no one in this town wants more money like you know they go to the referendum and vote and vote no if they chose to if if if if the board of Finance cut the state trooper and it got through Jody just as a case the budget would be voted down at referendum probably and you know then it would go back and we'd go on cycle again and what happens if it gets voted down and we the the ram the budget you so you have the second I guess you have from the second week of April is when that annual town meeting is until the ram budget at the same day so you really if you get voted down you have to somehow very quickly do another modifications and vote do we have enough time it's a week like you get another week and then you have other problems so you have to have the budget posted for long enough if I'm an accurate darl I'm sorry I did that right so there would have to be another the budget Bo of Finance would have to have another meeting do the budget and then we would at that point just probably put something in like 803 we currently have where if it is defeated at referendum then and still follow that same P well defeat defeating at referendum is just a whole other process it's like it's like what's the first date of the referendum with the hope that it passes on that date that Ram is being voted on and then we move on if it fails it fails
and then we go through the steps to to get another one done and another referendum vote and so on and so on but right the first one and I keep mentally coming to it why do we allow the even if they vote even if we vote to move the budget forward the town meeting we move to to to not approve the budget for referendum why can't we have that meeting stay open the board of Finance goes and sits there and says these are the adjustments we are going to make they come back to the town meeting which is still in session and you got to stay there if this is the type of government we want town meeting then you stay there until a budget is approved to go to referendum or we could go and have public hearing for the board of finance that public hearing after they receive input from the public have that adjourned then go into the annual Town budget meeting where the public whoever is attending is allowed to vote budget only this way it eliminate have right
section three and then whatever votes are taken there that pass that is the budget that will then be presented to the annual budget representa okay and I'm going to give a hypothetical to everybody here the people pack the town meeting they get 45 out of 47 people who show up to our town meetings and they sit there and say I want to make a motion to reduce the Board of Education spending by $100,000 and that motion passes right because the Board of Education doesn't think this cycle is very bad they don't get people to come to the town meeting it passes now we're sending that to referendum there is a clause in the in the charter here too regarding reducing it the law we can't reduce board of education budget below the required per pup spended okay but to be clear Carol I thought there was also when the bation happened and and I apologize I didn't go and read that section but I thought when the bifurcation happened we put in there was something that went in there that protected the board of education so they get at least one vote because of the bifurcation oh I'm sorry could you repeat that again what was that my
understanding I thought when the bation of the budget happened right yes that that because of that bation I thought we there was some some language in there that protected the school budget until at least one vote Happened One referendum vote right yeah that's correct but what I'm saying Adrian is is someone could go in isn't that that is correct Eric's shaking his head so Eric you know go ahead I I don't believe that that's correct somebody could still go to a current Town budget meeting and make a motion to reduce the AES budget or any line item line item and if a majority of people at that meeting approved it then it would be the what would go to referend to referend yeah and and that's correct and what Adrian is saying at that at that referendum if it's voted the budget fails the budget fails it goes back to the board of Finance but the next vote is a bifurcated vote okay Shannon can we can we ask Shannon real quick Shannon may have some feedback on this I just want to make sure we're understanding this correctly because it does matter to it's 803g which is substitute budget did any budget fail to gain final approval prior prior to the beginning of the FAL year the town want Implement a substitute budget in the case of the board of education budget in compliance with the minimum budget requirement of state so you know if somebody comes in and wants to reduce the local board of education budget so that it's below
that can't do that any we we we got but you don't even want to go there because there's a lot of issues related to the m all saying the thing that we're discussing here is just to try to get so that we're saving money eliminating a referendum and a town right you know second referendum so the question is do we want to do this do we want to move our budget process up the probably the best way to do it would if you want to have the public hearing for the Board of Finance first and then have it adjourned to our annual Town budget meeting on the first Wednesday or second Wednesday in April just to give everybody ample time to get the budget prepared then you know we can move forward and do that just to have the one referendum but the only way to do that would be just to not have a vote at the annual Town budget meeting as to whether or not to send it to referendum the wording in our Charter would have to be the same so I would annual budget meeting so I would make a motion then that we make the adjustments to align our budget referendum with the Hein and the ram school budget referendum with the caveat that we still include we we do an a budget meeting and or a hearing and then a budget meeting back to back is that correct Carol that's how I want to do it I will have to check with Dennis to make sure that legally I don't assuming I can think of that would prohibit it but we would still have to check with Dennis to make sure so we'll let we'll
let Dennis make that adjustment but assuming that we align with ram and that we would do we would not have a vote it would automatically go to referendum but that we would still have the ability to reduce the budget as we currently do correct because we're still given TX paers their voice at the town meeting to make their votes I'm I'm I'm just going to sit there and say I would I don't I don't feel comfortable I I I want to sit there in a line don't get me wrong I want one referendum one time spend the money one time but I think you have to sit there and make the town meeting the requirement on it you can't just I I don't believe and and it would probably pass anyway I'm trying to think in my head the vote scenarios like how it would work at a town meeting if someone made a motion to cut a department or caught a budget line item and then they sat there and they said that's immediately going to referendum I don't feel comfortable with that I think what we need to do is make that meeting stay open until the town meeting the group approves a budget to go to referendum even if there's a a requirement that the board of Finance has to go back in and modify numbers at that meeting I mean that that's how I I I look at it because I I have a really I'm mentally trying to figure out in you know going to those Town meetings
and watching ing people get up and make their motions to to make cuts I mean what if they pack the vote for state trooper I mean we wanted to make reductions to state trooper but you know there was a blowback from older residents that so as you noted to Jody earlier they would vote the budget down correct but we don't want to get into that you know that's a vicious cycle then the budget gets bifurcated and we have all the animosity those things but those things happen that's why you you know I mean what Bolton went I I got just recently Bolton has gone multiple rounds I think they went like five Cycles recently you know yeah but I'm really happy that we look like a sane town with the exception of the people writing letters to the River East we look really good well the good news is if you read the River East you'd find out that they can't do they can't do the national politics thing anymore so that's okay good I'm happy about that Jody's over question it's no because he knows he's knows knows I'm right I am the 10% on both sides is Jeff call exactly so Jody what is you know what Jody Bob's Bob's Bob's likees Switzerland on most things and and Karen and Carol Le and that little group is gonna they're GNA be quiet on this a little bit unless we go too far off track I think so Jody what do you think you said anything it yeah no I like the idea of trying to gain some efficiency so you know it's a little bit hard to follow because I'm I'm not deep into
this process today but it sounds like you want to do a board of Finance public hearing and for like the first week of April and then the annual town meeting could either be a week later or I think what I'm hearing is could you do that backto back and but the vote is and at the T anal town meeting I'm fine with the process that's you know people can do some level of reduction although Adrian I I've been thinking a lot about what you said and you know sometimes people don't have the broad perspective on finances that others do so I do worry what Jeff is saying where they might reduce something that's an essential service or or people have broader ideas on but I think the the endgame what here was to align the RAM and our town budget May 6 so I'm not sure what you gain is do what do you gain by putting the backtack annual town meeting in Board of Finance public I I and see generally speaking I would agree with you I think it's better to give them at least a week apart so that you could
have you you could have a board of finance that could take the Public's input make any last minute adjust ments and also I think there there should always be a case and I don't know that we've been doing it most recently but there should always be a case where we actually present what our budget is but why but not just what it is but why it is what it is I think we need to do a much better job of communicating that not just at the meetings but but sending out maybe a more detailed instead of a postcard we send out a a one-page f you know a one-page document that says hey this is how we came up with this budget you know especially if we're going to go into this process but that's a different conversation are there are there ma would make sense to to give people a week get the board of Finance to make whatever adjustments they receive at the public hearing and then a week later if we were to have our annual Town budget meeting still allow the people to have their voice in our budget process and make reductions or ask questions but then automatically go to the annual budget re why is why is that important I guess today what it requires a motion to go directly to the referendum yeah because if we don't do that then we're not going to be able to line align with the ram budget referendum which was the sole purpose of reviewing are you asking about why why there's a motion needed or why it has to go direct
why there's a motion like in today's world there's a I guess a today it sounds like there's a motion to send it to to to town referend we are not going to make a motion at the annual Town budget meeting we're going to have the wording in our Charter that at you know the annual Town budget meeting will present the final budget with any adjustments that are made at that annual Town budget to vote by the annual budget referend all right can I ask for this and I'll I'll pull my motion from the floor would it make more sense at this point to ask Carol can you just put it in a formal document so we can all read it and understand what it actually looks like with the spacing a week from this a week to that can we do that I will do that I just wanted to throw out the different options that we have and what we would have to do I thought it was just my
stroke brain that was I thought it was just my stroke brain struggling to grasp it sounds like maybe not it's not let me let me say something here you guys are all much better versed in the the details and the nuances and what happens when and this is obviously a complex subject with some subtlety Carol you brought some great ideas to the flooor but it's clear also that a little bit of modification is necessary there's still a little bit of contention going on here so yeah Adrien said what I was struggling to find a a time to jump in and say you need to put it in black and white so that we can all look at it because yeah I don't have a I'm not struggling with a stroke brain but I'm still struggling to follow along exactly what happens when and under what circumstances so can I just ask this question before right speak with our town attorney and I know Jody you
were saying about have the public hearing for the board of Finance let's say the first Wednesday in April then the next Wednesday the annual Town budget meeting and then that goes automatically to the annual budget referendum on the Tuesday following the first is that what rest that's what I think you put on the table and it sounded appropriate to me I didn't I kind of like the idea of having the space between the public hearing and the I just didn't know if that causes more money or causes trying to avoid that but it it does give people time to right you know kind of you know Board of Finance to take in the Public's input a little bit in town and and then make and I understand why you have to go automatically out of that town meeting to referendum because you have to make that sixth deadline or that that that where they could get connected but I just wanted to present you know everything have everything on the table you know that either go straight okay can p we just wrap this up and say that we're going to continue this item to next week's meeting Carol you'll come back with something that's a little more formalized you'll share your screen we'll review it again and hopefully not talk about it for 45 minutes before we come to a consensus yes okay great so let's go on to item five town clerk position Adrien yeah I'm gonna apologize up front I'm not doing well on the computer today so I'm not going to try to share my screen I did send you all the document that came from Hein
I also called about five town clerk's offices from our surrounding towns to kind of get a feel for not just what Hein is doing but what other towns are Colombia is now elected sorry appointed hired Bolton same situation wendam so a lot of towns have gone in this direction the biggest thing you're going to see is that there is a there is a grave concern for when a town is doing this that the cl's position become isolated right so it needs to be isolated from political issues it needs to be isolated from say a town manager that maybe doesn't agree with a town clerk's handling of things but also maybe from a board of selectman that doesn't agree with it so there is everyone that I talked to every clerk said the same thing that if we go in this direction we need to reference the state statute that explains what is required to remove a clerk and that that needs to be the same guideline an elected Clerk and that we should use that same guideline that says that basically what other towns have done is they say it has to be that a town manager needs to agree with it it can't just be a board of Selectmen that
the board of selectman needs to agree with the town manager that does it so there's basically two steps there and that it has to be for cause it can't be for you know any other you willy-nilly feelings of of a of a manager or a board that that's upset with a town clerk it needs to be for cause and that we should reference S statue that being said they also all said that the reason they went in this direction is that it generally takes about four years to learn the job and that's how long the term is so basically you go in you get going and four years later just about the time that you're you know the job you got to run again everyone said that in bigger towns like say Hartford or west Harford a town clerk could be an
elected position because you have 20 people in the office right so if if the if the person that's at the top of the pile doesn't know all the statutes and doesn't know every all the nuances there's so many people in the office that that you know that the group thing think Can can overcome that because there's there's knowledge within all those people but when you have such a small office like ours we have two people you know if one person steps away and the other person may not have the institutional knowledge it's it's problematic in Hein one of the biggest things pushing them is that they're worried with a town three times the size of ours that they don't have enough of a population to put forward a qualified clerk someone that could learn their job quickly and and get up and running so they they feel that this really should be you know a hired slash you
know appointed position so I would say I think we I my recommendation is that we we follow basically what what Hein is now attempting to do and what other towns around us have already done and go in this position go in this direction if you have any questions feel free I you know I had about a 20 minute conversation with almost all the clerks so hey Adrien what's the D the downside here of moving it to appointed right I mean I I like in that in that what you standed out from Hein thank you was excellent but it was funny I was reading the cons and even the cons were Twisted to be Pros the inverse it was like so you know in my simple head the only thing is thinking oh they're not a town resident maybe they're not queued into the culture of the town but so there is there is an there is an old guard and this actually is what happened in he and the last time they tried to do this the the the town clerk had been there for you know 20 plus I think it was actually 30 years and I apologize I don't have
that off the top of my head but it was it was a really long time and at the last minute in the process she said listen I don't I really Town Charter Our Town Charter actually has a difference for Town residents to be to be hired for Town jobs right but there's no there's nothing that forces a town to file that so there is always a concern that a a a nonresident gets a clerk position because the clerk is so ingrained in the community that and it does so much I mean you know Carol's a Carol's literally the embodiment of that think of anything that you go to in town and imagine that you know if you can find something that car does not go to or show up at I would be hard it's a hard pressed thing and that is so common in in the Works position in so many towns they're so involved so there's a concern the con is what happens if you get someone that just isn't invested in the town can do they just come in and do the job check the box and leave because they don't live there that's a possibility it's a possibility you could hire a town clerk that lives in town though and and and then they move for whatever reason so you know there's there's there's nuances to it that was the one thing that everyone said they they that was their always their concern but it really hasn't been the case there's been situations where you know in each town where either someone's a resident of the town or someone is is willing to make that thing and and the biggest thing is that the reason that people
don't run is there's no job security right so you have to be fairly intelligent and and I'm not saying this to make Carol feel better but you need need to be fairly intelligent you have to have a really good understanding and understand that there are to put this in perspective there are over 500 statutes I couldn't believe this but it's true there's 500 statutes on the state books that specifically reference the town clerk that's how involved the job is with state so you know the the cons are an employee that is not connected to the job that's the con right that's the risk I think we could hopefully I don't think you know one thing that was brought up about this is that it should not be a position that is hired by a board of Selectmen it should not be a position that is hired by a town manager it should not be a position that's hired by so you don't want just one group to make that decision that you should at least put together a committee that then hires the person based on a recommendation but but certainly group so you might compose that of say two members of a board of Selectmen two members of a board of Finance the town manager maybe someone from the assessor's office you know you might even want someone you know from you certainly want someone from the general
public so you put together a group and that group makes that decision for that ultimately to hire that person but it should not be left in one Department because this is this person touches so many different areas you know so thanks so Adrian do you have any specific language recommendations modifications to the the charter I mean you you covered a lot of ground and touched I don't and to be honest with you because this there's going to be some nuances to this I did not go digging into the charters to see how it's written yet I think the next step would be if if the group feels that we're still going forward with this then we I should say I'll take the time to to reach out and pull some of those Charters and try to codify the language that would work and then we can you know
pick through it but I didn't want to spend a lot of time doing that until we until we know that this is this is going to be something that we're gonna we're going to want to still move forward on I I'm I kind of think it's a no-brainer but you know you know it is what it is it's a group decision so I think we all concur that this is a a weighty and substantial issue that that you know deserves our our full consideration so who wants to make a motion that we will continue to consider this issue and move forward I'll make I'll make a motion that we continue to continue this to the next meeting moving forward and I would come back with language suggested language for the for the charter Charter adjustments I will come up with the Lang language the charter adjustments I would ask the town attorney to specifically point to anything in the charter that needs to be removed that's conflicting that I don't want to take on that responsibility okay I'll second that any further discussion on this subject okay all those in favor I I I I is there anyone opposed okay it's unanimous keep doing your homework Adrian okay who's who second that was that Bob I did thanks and just as a a side note I think somewhere in the charter in my reading that there any of any job Adrian would be by a group of any job specific like that would be by a group as you
referenced a member of the board of selectman or two members of the board of selectman and then we do reference in certain places where we take we would take Town clerks from other towns to do the interview process just is a side note so everybody understands them that is written somewhere I just read it I can't find it written okay Bob Bob you're muted the dog was barking Jeff you're up ordinance procedures all right in our Charter well like the first thing I should do is just so everybody understands because ordinance can mean a lot of different things as it as it written the definition of an ordinance is a law set forth by government Authority specifically a municipal regulation so in essence these ordinances are municipal regulation and the issue that we really have in our Charter and and just so you understand we are not solving every issue on the ordinances today because if you search the charter there's somewhere in the range of 40 some OD ordinance words sprinkled out throughout the charter different meanings and have different things associated with them the biggest issue that I would do is because ordinances are the purview of the board of selecman right now but we have a a minor and a a definition of a minor ordinance in our Charter that I would totally delete so section 105 definitions 105h minor ordinances I would delete that and come in with some word that minor ordinances in effect before the the date that this Charter revision becomes U implemented will continue to remain for the board of Selectmen to amend and repeal so the issue ends up being due ordinances and and then in my analysis
you have to go through the way that an ordinance if the board of selectman had the ability to create these ordinances and the other thing for everybody is there's a document on our website that lists out all the ordinances that have been in place so I went to see Carol this morning and Eric and there's a document for ordinances that's about 78 pages long that lists out the items that are outside of the charter and a lot of these are not currently I mean I wouldn't sit there and say Carol all these Fallen but Carol would know better than I would but I would sit there and say there's so many ordinances and they go back so far with so many little dollar amounts we really as a town need to probably clean up our entire entire ordinance collection but the issue ends up being believing that the word minor ordinance and allowing the board of Selectmen to be able to put in place ordinances and if if need be because there's so much see this is the whole thing I don't want to go to Tom mating for for this type of these types of transactions so I would recommend and and I I think we need to do exactly what we just did with the Tom clerk which is say okay we're going to move forward with this and the one thing that I did identify is eliminating the minor ordinances allowing the board of Selectmen to continue in it's and
it's saying Authority and you know you would give in section 301 in the general section you would make a change in that area to including but not limiting the authority to approve an act appeal and modify all ordinances after a public hearing so you're still going to have the public hearing you're still going to have the public be able to communicate to you on this but you're you're going to allow the board of Selectmen to allow after that public hearing to enact the ordinances and you know right now we have section 402 that sits there and says you know the town meeting has the ability to
Act of what's considered or identified as major ordinance so my issue is eliminate the difference between minor and major allow the board of Selectmen to enact and Implement a an ordinance after a public hearing and then we move on to the issues of how would an ordinance if the public disagreed with it be overturned and that ends up falling into you know section 305 about petitioned Tom meeting you know and and I'm telling you and I think everybody would understand if if the board of Selectmen made an ordinance or enacted an ordinance that everybody didn't like there's two things that would happen one is you would petition to get the ordinance revoked and removed and you wouldn't vote for those Selectmen in future elections it's the value of the Democracy that's basically where I I am at if I was you know if we could approve that if we wanted to move forward with that I would have the town attorney
suggest appropriate language for the various sections that are impacted by ordinances within the town chart I I I my opinion on this in order for me to support it I would want two things to happen I would want there' be a 120 day delay before an ordinance goes into effect and and the second one would be that I would want to see instead of a 10% requirement for signatures collected let's lower that to 5% and then it would automatically go to a a town vote I think in my read of this that number is way lower than 10% is it really yes okay I didn't read that section and I didn't see anything from you quantifying it I I I know in in in I
think in State Statute it's actually a 10% so if we have something lower that's great 42% 49 residents 49 residents that petition 49 residents can cause a town meeting yeah yeah okay would you do it to a town meeting though or would you do it so my I guess my thought was the number was higher and instead of doing a town meeting because you again this goes back to the whole idea of having as many people have a saying these things as possible you just hold the ordinance and put it on the next ballot that you've got going so if it happens if it happens over the winter right between November and the referendum boat you could throw it out at the same time you know for the budget if it happens after the budget cycle but before November it would fall into the November vote cycle and you would just you don't have to have something separate it's an ordinance it's not something that has to be passed today
obviously you just throw it out the next ballot and let people vote on it but make the number higher you know and I just throw in that kebron section 405 of their Charter current Charter power of overrule ordinances adopted by the board of C so all actions of the board of Select and ordinances except emergency ordinance shall be subject to over at a special referendum in the following manner so it outlines that a petition must be filed within 20 days after final action by the board of Select 2% of the electors of the town of HEB he a town much larger than us only 2% as determined by the latest official registry and request that the ordinance be submitted to the voters of the town
for special referendum so it spells out a procedure so it's still it doesn't give the board of select men you right to well you still would have the right to enact ordinance but then the electors of town would be able to come forward with of registered voter signatures to force a referendum on so if we use that if we use that it'd be 70 people give or take right 3500 electors perc yeah thoughts guys girls sounds reasonable Adrian have to be some type of protection for the people if we were going to move forward and allow for to select in that to do that another way to do it would be to more clearly defined and I know it's hard to Define minor and major but we could give examples I was just kind of looking around different larger towns and they have extended examples of a minor ordinance are allowed to Ena we have elected officials and we you know they're not going to go off the rails but the public needs some fail safe mechanism in case there's discourse so I kind of like the idea of you know I didn't like this major minor it gets the definitions always get hard so I think the path Jeff was on with some modification from Adrian I think works at least from my view which is giving the board of Selectmen who we all have elected a little bit of continuing that flexibility to put something in place but then giving the and giving notice I think that's what Adrien wants and I that you know notice is fine except I do
see sometimes there could be an emerging thing but then what's the it sounded like there was some recourse what's the recourse if Town didn't Town people don't like it sending it to it goes down right it go it goes down how Oh you mean if well car is saying they'd have to get 2% which would be 70 people in our town to do what what happens that's after okay wait wait wait current process in Carl correct me if I'm wrong is an ordinance goes to a town meeting and gets voted up or down that for major ordinances town meeting upper down what we're saying is we're eliminating the town Le up or down and now we're dealing with the recourse JY as to how if it is a negative ordinance that that a group of residents believes and they can get enough of 2% of the electors which is low for me it's low I understand Hein is
what is it kind three times our size with the number of electors so the actual number of people that they have to get to is is greater so I would sit there and I I could I could I could I could live with the the I could live with a group of individuals in the town not agreeing with an ordinance and putting it on the next available ballot that's what I would ask you no special no special I mean I'm trying to avoid extra work for people like so adrianne's request was 120 days right Carol your your issue was how how we how we allow the residents to
revoke an ordinance right right because well the way Hein does it is they have a public hearing and publication so the board of Selectmen if they're going to enact an ordinance have to have at least one public hearing notice of which have to be given five business days four and then you hold that public hearing before you pass the ordinance but then okay it also gives the public an easier there's a statutory petition process too but this would be clearly spelled out in the charter and the people would understand and I hear what Adrien is saying on the next election but if you know you pass an ordinance the day after the November election right would you say that that would be on our budget referendum that ordinance I'm okay honestly I'm okay with the I just want to make sure we have something easy and clear if if I have no problem with with adopting what Hein has done with you know maybe we just make make a slight modification and give a little more time for people to get the the the 70 people or whatever it is they're going to need in town maybe it's a little easier in Hein to do that because they have you know they have a lot more stuff large population what does the 70 people trigger though is that a a town meeting a town a town referendum right or a town meeting so what it triggers is the number required for the petition so this power of overrule for ordinances right with Hein a petition must be filed within 20 days after the final action by the board
of selected so if you're saying to extend it Adrian to give them 45 days in which to obtain the petition there's ation form that they would have to obtain from and what's Jody's asking is from there do we go to a town meeting or do we go to a referendum vote it would go straight to a referendum if they came in with the required number of petitions they I'm good with that I'd be good with that as long as we move it from you know 20 days to you know 30 or 45 either one would work for me so I want to see if I understand this right we're saying that the board of Selectmen can pass an ordinance and if the town doesn't like it they can petition to get a referendum to overturn the ordinance yes if the commission has mov forward with allowing for select to enact ordinances yes this is a protection for the residents of band over to get that overturned now in Hein what they do is they have that if the ordinance they have within 30 days have to hold the referend if they have the required number of s so you would have set date as to when we would have to have the referent right now petitions people can
petition by Statute bring it forward to the board of Select and if they deem it a ferous petition they don't have to act on it just be set us up so they're petitioning or this is a run out you know a standard plane proceed okay and and I don't have any issues with the public hearing waiting period on enactment I think what we have to sit there and consider is if if you give them 45 days residents enough time to get signatures and they get signatures it's a question of when that referendum occurs and how it falls within the calendar you know so to me I'm sitting there always looking at this going it can wait I don't care if it waited 365 days like we would never be I mean as long as I would be on board of Select we would never put a an ordinance on the agenda the the December meeting right after an election and and cause problems I mean I just ask everybody like to look at you know when we give the community the ability to go to referendum or go to town meeting it does take time and cost us money so and that's all I ask everybody to think about is like when does it go to referendum not a special referend for are you are you okay with it just holding over then I mean yeah I mean we did it we look at the town meeting we just did we held over everything for you
know months and months and months does anyone else have an objection with it once it gets thing getting held over to the next so we don't have to spend money on a special referendum I have one other question for you Adrian you mentioned that any new ordinance would have an automatic 120 days stay what's the purpose of that well it gives you two things it gives you the the petitioning time right and and then so your petitioning time then I also think that it gives a legal Authority if someone for whatever reason wants to challenge it Beyond a petitioning or say rejection of petition whatever whatever it it puts it in a holding pattern until until that those processes can play out that's all I thought we just reduced 120 days to yeah we we can reduce it I don't I don't have a problem reducing it but I but again as long as we have these other metrics in place I'm fine with that and I'm open to any suggestions like I have no Pro think carolly suggestion you know hebin has a good thing that works let's do that I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel you know okay so I I don't have a problem with what Carol said From hein's perspective I mean you just want hold you just want to hold it I just don't want everybody to just run out and get a petition right of 45 voters and then we're required 70 in our case 70 but
yep okay 70 2% of 3500 so Adrian we typically have around 2300 registered voters in the town so 2% would be it's 2,300 I thought it was 3,300 I mean I thought I looked it up on the state 33 is our population Adrian oh I'm sorry I I apologize that's okay it's about 23 register apologize Eric you are correct 23 it is yeah 2300 so it's in essence off of the state information it was I I did the math on that section 2% of was 49 residents what are you an accountant now or something yeah you know he told me to do some research and Bob gave me a list that he gave me a list of things I had do I went out and did it sorry but yeah 49 people and they can sit there and and file a petition I'm okay with that I'm okay just I do not want to see the town have to absorb a special referendum that's fine especially with the number being so low yeah so we hold over does anyone have objection to a hold over well why not talk about raising the number from 2% to 5% and just to let you know if we had a referendum where we had paper ballots and we do hand account it really is not that expensive just say it it is not it is not but we now have to pay for our regist voters and everybody we have to call them in for items we could also set the referendum hours from noon until 8 salaries took 8 hours they 14 right what's it what's it cost us for
the mailer Carol it was it like Couple Grand the mailer it's about three for $400 is that it that's it and because right now we're doing the half sheet postard and then if we do the hand count which it does not take a lot of time the paper ballots are made here in the house just like for annual budget meeting and we could have register our voter so je Jeff okay we can't Jeff you did your homework you did your homework can we do the same thing with yours can we have you Quantified it in a in a statement and we'll vote on it next week next next meeting yeah absolutely so I just want to make sure so public hearing a a a hold time to allow for a petition Y and then the issue related to the referendum would be held over until a regularly scheduled c yeah I'm good with that so so so the ordinance stays in effect
until then is that how no no no no because once if if they didn't get it in within the 45 days that go into effect if they did get it in then it would be held because it has to go to reference it's paused until the following when it's okay got it got it yes thank you okay I do I do wait B one thing I do believe we should sit there and and put on next week's agenda the section 305 petition Town meetings and the percentage of Voters required for that type of petition put it put it all in your in what you want us to vote on next week but it wouldn't be a petition town meeting Jeff it would be similar to what or exactly what he wrote power of overrule ordinance adopted by the board of Select me it wouldn't be a special
town meeting because the petition would force referendum here understood understood all right let me let me make a motion here okay that we let's let's wrap up discussion on this we're in general agreement on what needs to happen Jeff you're going to turn make make concrete out of your out of your ideas you know give us some specific language where it's appropriate on the ordinance side as well as any other parts of the the charter that get affected such as as the town meetings as you see fit and you can present those things to us next week so that was kind of a rambling motion there that we continue this to next week that we all approve to move forward yeah why does it have to be a motion it because it doesn't we're not enacting anything yeah if we don't do if we don't do these
motion Bob does not get to feel like being a chair it's important for him so we need to do this for Bob This Is Us supporting Bob so Bob I'm gonna second motion thank you all in favor hi hi okay let's move on I'll abstain you're abstaining Bob that's just mean Jody it's really mean that's fine okay so I'm up again the next item is not electing first selectman instead having a chairperson that is elected by the board of Selectmen as is done in the Board of Education and board of Finance I've done some research on this the language changes in the charter are actually very simple so simple that I haven't written it up yet there are a few additional things though that I want to look into regarding state law because state law talks about first select first Selectmen quite a bit and I want to make sure that we're not running a foul of anything in there before we we move forward with this and I just want to as an side one of the things that was mentioned at the first meeting was can we modernize our language and simplify it and you know come into alignment with modern language which the way that that I took it was among other things gender neutrality I looked at what people are calling a board of Selectmen in other places and the terminology that I found was Board of selectors or select TS you know instead of a select man a selector and we could certainly go ahead there's about 200 places in the charter where that L where select man or select men occurs the problem arises in that Connecticut state law still uses the term Board of Selectmen and
Selectmen and we have kind of a a a responsibility and and a charge to stay in alignment with what the state law does and so you know I'm not even going to suggest that we go there that route until the state does you know what they do we can follow but it's it's opening up a can of worms if we were to to try to go down that it's like I said just a digression but it was brought up at the the the first meeting modernizing the language so I looked at it and I said no this is this is not the way that we're going to go actually I chatted with a few other people who who concurred the same way so I'm going to come back next week with some more concrete language and hopefully places where this touches state law and doesn't run a foul of it well here on Jeopardy next week we'll have language for all of these things to go uhuh I'll take it for 200 Alex all right that brings us to Jody increasing the number of candidates allowed for the board of Selectmen sure let me share screen can you do that or do I have to do that for you I think I can let me see share there you go what's that what's that Little Engine That Could I think I can't I can't remember what it is honey here we go if I can get pull this up nope wrong the document hold on that's just oh you're using Mac huh yes the minutes I'm typing here which explains why it's taking so long here we go so I think the idea I was asked to
evaluate is to increase the number of nominees for the board of Selectmen by each political party and I think Adrien said maybe possibly the four from each party and I think believe the rationale was really to try to increase the competitive nature with more candidates having some form of contested election surface more ideas constructive debate on improvements for our town Carol pointed me to section 203 of the charter that states a political party May nominate no more than three members one of whom shall be designated nominee for the office of first selectman and I think we have an item and maybe I just missed it where we're
going to change not actually have a first selectman but potentially have that as a as someone that's decided by the board of Selectmen and not voted but regardless it it I don't think it matters in in this case so the background is the current Board of Selectmen has five members with a requirement for minority representation I think effectively ensuring a 32 split on the board and current ballot has voters selecting three Representatives so I think Bob you had asked for what's the implementation or transition here and this I think would be simple as to change to a language in the charter and each party could submit whatever number of nominations I used four for this ballot pros and cons I think this is more choice because you have more people on a ballot and you may get more people involved in the political process the con is that I was kind of struggling because it may not have any impact if the political parties choose not to increase the number of nominees due to diluting the votes of the top three so this so I really came up with three two questions for for folks because honestly this didn't make sense in part of me was like from the math perspective I wasn't quite sure why a party would want to do it so why would a party want to put four names if they're trying to get three three of two and and I guess and then I asked myself is the rationale for this change already being achieved within the political parties right I like you know caucuses for the parties or is there multiple candidates coming forward so
that's what I thought through on this and open to any corrections or conversation let me bring down let me stop sharing here I can figure out how to do that stop share there you go so it didn't make sense to me but I'm open to thoughts here maybe the idea surf is part of another idea that we continue to pull forward but is this coming from you as a Mac User or I'm sorry I don't understand your reference I question your judgment that's all when you I mean you know giv your choice of operating system okay got it you're poking yeah no I guess if I was sitting in a Democratic or republican caucus and I wanted to win three of two right and maybe I have that assumption wrong that it's always has to be 32 it's like why would you put four on a ballot and spread your and you only had three choices you would be spreading your numbers right would but you would still be allowing the elect both that number of CES you know you'd increase the number that they can vote for and how does the CAU the caucus doesn't know who's going to be popular at that election so have would have better ODS you don't know who's going to be you might be more you're going to be more popular than I
am on the board of Select ballot you know you don't know who the elect got it so you're suggesting a caucus could say I want to put four because more more options more possibility that one of these is going to strike old with the with the with the town in some way but the other part the the contrarian side of that is well then you're kind of you know does or does it spread the vote so but maybe leave that to the caucuses I don't care you know this gets complicated though I mean like you know I think the only reason Jeff beat me is because he was Santa Claus and I was the Grinch right it could be that you lose to me because you're a Mac User and I'm a you know I'm a I'm a Windows guy who knows but I'm
just I don't I don't know I I think there I think her you know Carol's point is true though that that you know caucuses are trying sometimes to make a a hard decision and I think giving the public a little bit wider choice if it's available can be a good thing I do I do worry though that you end up with as you start I mean we're having a hard enough time getting enough people on to to run for these things in the first place you can end up with a situation where you know four Republicans end up you know running against two Democrats or three Democrats right so you you could end up with you know we just can't get enough people to fill all those spots that want to run so you know what I mean you can end up with a very
lopsided situation there as well and it gets even more lopsided when you start spreading out the vote over eight people you know so it's true if we increase the number that El or can vote for because on the board of Finance we have our major munici four members of seven member Board of Finance are left voters can vote for people they can vote for up to four we restrict for when we divide it with the first left I can only V one first and then two on the board of and five are going to be so if we were to
open if did decide to eliminate her selecting and just word of Selec and let them elect their cheer in and we did do for each elor Carol Carol I don't mean to interrupt you can you just either lean forward a little or pull the mic towards okay I I don't know if there's something wrong with this microphone but I'm just saying it would increase the number that each elector can vote for so if each Town committee could nominate let's say four people Run for the board of Select then we could increase the number that the elector and vote for five rather than one for first selection and two
for if you're opening up that way so do it like we do for the board of Finance four seats are up you can vote four members I think that works well on a seven member board though right is Board of Finance seven that is correct yes it kind of makes sense if you're stag also staggered terms right right yeah je I'm interested in your thinking on this I know you were one of the folks you kind of brought this forward but I didn't know it was part of a package of other things originally well I was a believe I'm a believer that they should appoint in a
seven member board I believe it's it's effective to appoint the chairperson I would sit there and tell you under our current current structure I would sit there and get rid of the whole the the first selectman office is you run for it and you win or lose if you win you're in you're you lose you're out and and you don't get the roll off into the select board and then you should have each party should be should should put up six members or three candidates each for six positions and then they get to win either three positions or or two positions because you're still going to have minority interest so if the first selectman wins and he's a Democrat then you're gonna only have another two Democratic positions available if he's a republican same thing so I will tell you Jody
the issues from a a caucus are going to be for the most part very they're they're going to watch out for their party it's just the reality of it you're going to watch out for your party and if you have two solid candidates that are going to get on there and you you you sit there and you split the vote somehow you know like the Democrats this this cycle put up three candidates to the three candidates and we didn't have any more but three candidates to the the Democrats only had two seats they put up a third candidate they they really ran that one individual candidate very hard and that candidate got more votes and some of those things are unfortunate but if you sat there and you didn't let votes roll over from the board of selectman then people would make decisions as to where they would need to be so I I actually think you run the first selectman as its own race and then you have four positions on the board and you put up as many candidates as you think because you know you can get up to three of those potential seats depending on what happens I'm sorry I guess I missed Bob what was that I missed our conversation on not having a first selectman instead having a chairperson elected that was be conversation before yeah so are we going back on that now no no no I'm listen I'm telling you all of these issues are
potentially not moving forward because they may not get approved you have to realize that every every issue that's coming up from us is going to end up in front of the board of Selectmen and it only takes two people to vote against one of the items we bring up for it not to move forward so you have to be cognizant of the fact that things may not always turn out the way we want them why does it why is it two why is it a five person board can't three because you have to have 80% you have to have 80% of the board of Select and approve the charter revision that's okay that's just on Charter revision yeah got it and is it in ality or can there be modifications that come back I would hope we'd put these out as individual items and then you'd allow the board to sit there and pick the individual items so we get get 10 items in and one item fails and you move on got it but if you have something that's if we have something that we put together like for instance we moving a budget referendum and we're also adjusting something you know or in this case you have candidates and you have the select board you could group those together and say we want to do this
because that one is one really doesn't work without the other right we could ask the board of Selectmen to put those together if we feel that's appropriate yeah yeah so I I guess I was operating under the the the assumption that it's three people put up by it's the five member board with today's world is three that are nominated from each party sort of in my mind operating whether whether it's a separate first I was operating where it wasn't really a first select M world right where where each party just puts up three and then that board I I guess I was assuming number seven on our list or that that item where we were going to just have the board select the chairperson and I kind of thought we're having that same conversation okay no and you are and I'm telling you to be careful related to those items because you you're asking you okay let's sit there and go to your whole issue you have you have a five member board that's all we have and you want to put up three candidates so that means one person is gonna lose yes but that's what we have today right that's that's basically what we have today I mean we have we had you you you the way that I believe it's written is you have to have three candidates and one of
those individuals has to run for the first yes so yeah so so again I just didn't understand why we wanted to add a worth mathematically it just kind of felt funny I mean trying to play Devil's Advocate and say well gives people more choice and they might hit you know strike gold and I get that but if I was a strategist at the caucus I guess I I don't know go ahead point so can we for clarification because I I'm I'm totally I'm totally lost here and I'm trying not to swear because my brain goes there what are we doing exactly are we actually talking about are we talking about these as one issue or not because honestly if we're doing it for the whole board then I think the four works if we're doing it and we're not changing the board you know they to an elected if we're keeping an elected first selectman versus a a a selected by the board selectman for selectman like one one one I'm in favor of and when I'm not like if we get we eliminate the first elect position as a as an elected position that you run for then I think the four works I think if you're not eliminating it then you know then maybe it doesn't Bob back to you buddy I think you had the one on the first selectman right yeah and like I said I haven't I what I've come up with is that it's a simple thing for us to
do linguistically logistically you know the modifications to the to the actual Charter are fairly limited what I'm not sure of is what the implications are Visa how our Charter lines up with state law for example it doesn't say it in our Charter but state law talks about how the first selectman is the chief of police but but then it the the state law also doesn't it deliberately says don't have a definition for what chief of police means and so other you can but other places have chief of police that are are appointed or come from within the rank so I I don't know that we got to get into the nuances of that but what I'd like us to do is can we at least ask everyone on the board to give their opinion as to how they want to move forward on this yay or nay and and and whether they want are we grouping these together and because you know do they want four not want four like I think we need to figure out what the heck we're excuse my French Carol how many how many positions do we have on the ballot or a B are we limited by State
Statute no we can by Charter B the number the only we are limited by state staff voting Carol can't hear you then why not open it up to every why put a limitation on the number that a party can put up I mean a party is not putting up more than three people I'm just telling you with the current strategy Jody it's just math why would you ever do that that was the conclusion I came to with a five person board and you're trying to win three you're trying to win three winning three is because we do greater than minority rep on our Board of Selectmen and our loal board we do it on every board we do it on every major board the board of Finance the board of Selectmen yeah we do don't we follow state statute for minority rep on the board of Finance the only boards we have are that Minority rep is Define by our Charter and we do greater than for minority rep ismen and the local gr I thought it was also done on pnz no well to to make this simple I don't have a motion to put forward on increasing the number because it didn't make sense to me so if someone else would like to make that emotion or or or combine it with something else we can otherwise I would scratch this off does it make sense if we eliminate the you know we're talking about if it goes one way if we were to not have the first selectman as elected does it still make sense to have three and three on the ballot or does it at that
point make sense to have four and four I think then it makes sense to go four and four personally I'm why why Adrian if you're only electing three like P me through the logic why do you think that helps well I think that I personally think that it gives you a better opportunity to put up more candidates that you know that moved down that list you don't again you don't know how candidates are going to are going to actually pull with the with the with the with the public I mean I can I can personally tell you that I've seen candidates that got into an election and I thought there's no way they're going to get votes and they did and then you have candidates that you put up that you thought were a shoe in and they didn't even they didn't even show so I think
the caucus it gives the Fus more opportunity to put up quality candidates and put up more diverse candidates by doing that and I think that's more important when you when one of those candidates may or may not be moved up to the to the first the first chair you know yeah I don't I I'll say this I don't see a downside to it it kind of puts it in the caucuses hands to figure out what strategy that they might want right I mean I'm all for more people running but I just don't see the logic I don't see why and and to be really honest I was I was I'm not on the Democratic town committee so I can't sit there and tell you that but I know if I was advising the Democratic town committee I would tell them you don't want to put up any more than three people because you want to maximize your your ability to get votes especially with what said is is we could only vote for two people on the selectman line and and it should be select member or select person and you could vote for one person on the selectman first selectman line so you're minimizing that if you spread that out if you put four people up and a certain you know a certain appeal is to vote for a Democrat you might not pick the Democrat that has the most votes because then you you're competing back against who's going to win three seats on the board so mathematically it doesn't work got it but so it sounds like we have a gating issue though and maybe Adrien Jeffy are saying this too it's like
maybe we need to figure out the first Selectmen or appointed from within the board and then come back to the number I'm fine with that moving on that to to next week's or they say if we were to open that that up and do four and four and you allow the electors to vote for any five because on the board of finings agreed I I I totally agree and that's and that's my point that so so the voters are picking those members just like on the board of finings there are four seats up when this past November there were four seats up so each party could nominate four members so and the elector could vote any four so this way if you open up the board of Selectmen the same way where you each Town committee can put up four voters can vote five and then they would if we op to go that way then the elected Board of Select who's the chairman and vice chair and and this is Carol where I was going with the Town Council in that it would be four members running in one cycle and then in the next cycle there would be three members and that makes sense to me but when you're voting all for five and you only have a limited number of candidates you're you're basically selecting who you don't want on the committee and and that's okay everybody
can we can call it come of our mind but the math for what Jody's deal de with doesn't work the or also create the staggered Board of selction because the transition is already written out in chapter 10 of our town Charter and it shows the transition how we phased in when we were going on a five member Planning and Zoning commission how we phase in so that we had the three and two bagger terms that's not difficult to do that so when we had our minor municipal election obviously we've all been elected for years seven but what we would do that would be our major election we would have three members of the board of s have their seat understood Okay and like I say just follow chapter 10 for the transition same thing we did when we initiated our first Charter in 1999 I brought this issue up two meetings ago about pnz with staggered terms and asked why we do it and Jeff responded pnz is not as political as Board of Selectmen is I believe that was
your your explanation but it's also continuity on the board too in intention of knowledge to share [Music] with yeah but the the party minority representation how do you deal with that with staggered seems odd right like if if the two Republicans are up and it's a three- two but four one minority rep on a five member board oh it's four one it could happen 41 correct oh that changes my think Charter made the board of Selectmen and our local Board of Education have greater minor minority representation we did that by Charter oh so it is 32 by Charter by our Charter correct by our Charter okay all right all right well Bob I think we need to move forward here yeah we're we're at a gating point so if we have a a a chairperson type first selectman then the four and four makes sense if if it's separately elected then it doesn't make sense I think what you can do for us Jody is if you can formalize the language you know so that we at least
know what we're dealing with when we move forward because if we do go with a chairperson versus a first selectman then we would need the the additional Forin for language to go with it yeah it's it's changing one word three to four yeah it's that simple okay there's no other implications modifications that that's great okay then I'll continue to do what I'm doing and your job is pretty much done on that item we've talked this out all right the next item Town meetings adjustments merge the board of Finance B budget public hearing and town meeting board of Finance can adjust Budget on the Fly was that subsumed in yes what we talked for 45 minutes yes it was for 45 minutes yes unless you want to talk about it for another 45 Bob no I'm good I don't want to talk anymore about I'm getting hungry yeah very very hungry I ate before okay so we do have an item 10 here now that we added which is the supplemental appropriation amount which would trigger a referendum vote and that's Adrian's yeah so with that next week yes okay okay so that's everything that we had designated from last week let me just go through it real quickly just to make sure that we're all on the same
page the dollar amounts to trigger Town meetings we approved the changes the early voting and dates of Elections we approved the changes and we have continued to next week to have formalized and to integrate our discussions into the recommendations the referendum voting aligning the Board of Ed etc etc the town clerk position ordinance procedures and the first selectman versus elected versus chairperson yeah and just for the and so sending everything to Kate morisy yes but also if you could include me on Bob in particular your what you redlined because I think I need to put some of that in the minutes and then Karen your language that that when it goes to Kate make sure it comes to me because I'll add it to the minutes too all right I'll send it to everybody including Kate thank you okay one other thing I wanted to mention so the the descriptions that we have here of these these items we need we need to have this working item list to be fleshed out into I'm guessing three or four sentences for each item what we have now is a little too brief and can't be read I don't think could be readily understood by anybody who isn't you know intimately involved in in the process and the goal with what I'm
saying fleshing this out into into something readable is I'm envisioning that we submit this list to the town attorney to be crafted into the specific language you know that would that would go on a ballot at some point or at least the specific language whenever we talk about this thing rather than this this kind of Shand that we have so some of these things I can do others I don't know that I understand all of them well enough I think I'm G to get together with you Carol I think between the two of us we can formalize that and into something that that reads a little bit better and one bookkeeping element we haven't approved any of the the minutes yet Carol you've kind of sent out minutes and jod has sent out minutes and I think some of Jody's stuff needs to be included in Carol's stuff and so I think one of the things to put on next week's agenda is to you know offline let's let's get everything put together so that it's as comprehensive and readable as we can and then we can
add that as a as an agenda item that we modify and approve for the record and I'll make a motion to approve all those minutes okay I'll second that any further discussion all in favor B sorry about this I don't think you can do that because it's not on your agenda sorry you don't think we can do what approv not your agenda have a special meeting agendas in approv minutes we have to put that on our agenda for next week and that's probably better to do because then Jody and I can fix well I jumped in on Jody's minutes so we can fix the minutes so they're correct and then next week we'll just have that on the agenda I miss understood what Karen was moving there I'm sorry yes next week added to the agenda yeah yeah no I Karen I thought you were you
were volunteering to review the minutes that that's what I heard so I didn't say that well think I heard that too did anyone else hear that could you be just a little more expressive Karen yeah yeah Karen we just just for the sake we have to have the minutes in front of us in order to you know in order to approve them so okay okay anybody want to I make a motion to adjourn I second public comment oh right sorry it's on the agenda that's on the agenda sorry moving on to public comment Shannon do you have something to
contribute always Bob thank you I'm sorry I'll make it really brief if you want to look at the stuff about bif ated referendum it's 803 c and d and what I read in that is well anyway we'll just go on with it my four sense because of inflation is that I think that the town clerk should be elected instead of appointed and just to affirm that I think if the town clerk is doing a good job as Carol has done for 26 years that person is going to get reelected I don't know how a disconnected person or somebody who's not well known in the community or hasn't done the job for a long time would in fact get elected and I don't think it should be left up to even a committee much less one Department I think it should be up to the electorate with regard to your ordinance I really like that the what I think should happen is the board of Selectmen should put forward the language for an ordinance there should be a period of review not 120 days but a period of review for consideration by the town because then if you've got that consideration you could avoid a petition town meeting in other
words if the electorate likes it you then just go forward with our the referendum that was proposed or whatnot but if it doesn't like it maybe the board of selectman reconsiders because they' put it out for consideration for review by the town and you could avoid all this voting that that that was discussed and you talk about 2% that's yeah about 45 people from what I could gather section 305 talks about the number of registered voters as electors and final thing just sorry I'm looking at my notes I don't think that what you're talking about just as far as the language of section 305 is concerned if there's a petitioning town meeting to address anything I don't you guys were talking about an ordinance excuse me a referendum with regard to your consideration of the ordinance and I don't think there's a referendum vote at least now as it stands and Carol correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's you got a petitioning town meeting and
then it's determined by the town meeting not at a referendum vote thanks thank you Shannon Leanne do you have any anything to contribute no no thank you thank you Eric nothing at this time all right if we are done with public speak do we have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn not in all in favor hi thank you all for your assistance who was the second I didn't get it Adrian thank