Order the meeting.
Okay. I call to order the meeting today, December 1st at 7:01 p.m.
roll call. It's okay.
Joe and I'm Greg with the first bridge. Cool. did anybody see any anything or need any changes for the last meeting's minutes?
I think you could see bill right this
read a motion for that.
Yeah, see I'm pretty sure I heard George do this. Oh, no. You just see me.
Yeah, I think
you just see just say I'm going to see who from the as
the alternate. Okay. So, from here on out, we're going to see Bill as the alternate.
Correct.
Well, that's what I am. Yeah. So, anytime I come to a meeting, if you want to seat me.
Oh, so you're seated as a regular member.
Then you have to seat me as a commissioner.
Okay. All right. So, we're going to seat Bill tonight as a regular commission member. Okay. Okay. No public comment. Old business.
Okay. Moving on. New business. Permanent application I WWC 25-15. Jim Elano to approve.
Oh yes. I'm sorry. Can I get a motion to approve meeting minutes?
A motion to approve the meeting minutes from the October 6th regular meeting.
Second. All those in favor? by
Oh, Marina.
Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. to permit application IWWC25-15, Jim Bano at Longill Road, replacement of an existing Longill Road bridge on the hot river. We got a presentation do that we did last time.
Yeah, I should be able to hope there's an open port. You could all the materials are posted on the town website. So if you wanted to go on there
Yeah, we could do it that way. Used to set up PowerPoint.
Is it not? Is this not on the ground?
It's on here. It doesn't seem like this. I don't know.
Does it work last time, right?
Yeah. Oh, there we go. Second time. Just not ready to go back and break. machine. Yes,
I put I put the computer back to co-host. So, you should be able to hit share and it'll get recorded into the meeting from that computer.
Okay. I need to do something to
share this is that
you might have to go out of present. Yeah, I got to get back into Zoom. Minimize it.
Yeah. Into the Zoom.
Okay. And then Okay. Share.
Yep. All right. So, stop. have we presented so that it doesn't matter to the screen or to you guys?
I don't.
Is anybody on other than
I don't.
Yeah, I don't think anyone's on.
All right. Well, this is I'm I'm Greg Garish with the HP. We're the consulting engineer for the town of Andover. So, it's a town of Andover project to replace bridge 4582 which is Long Hill Road over the Hawk River. the project is administered by Connecticut DOT and is receiving federal funding to complete the project. Because of that, there's been a lot of coordination to this point with all the with the regulating agencies. So deep army corps DOT office environmental planning and we're very far along in this. This is we're at the really design is done and the project actually was advertised I think last week. So it's out to bid. So the the selection process for the contractor is has been has commenced at this point. All right. So, location branding here, but I'm sure you're all aware Long Hill Road is pretty much across the street from here. It's 550 the the bridge site is 550 ft north of the intersection with Route 6. and there's the ball fields are on the northwest side of the bridge. It's an aerial view basically discussing the same thing. You got the town fields in the northwest, the public works building on the southwest, and then further down settle towards the
intersection is the library and the first congregational church which will not be better. so the purpose of need is that this the bridge is in poor condition. So it's it's deteriorating and so it has some structural deficiencies and need to be that need to be corrected as well as it's scour critical. There was a 1999 scour analysis done that determined that had a high vulnerability scour or that's because the above are set in the channel which you can see here and some other photos to look at. so the proposed project will put this in a u the the bridge in a state of good repair mean current load rating and highway design standards.
What does scour mean?
so scour is like the roasted forces. So and bridge scour is specific to undermining of the foundations basically. So yep. So it's originally built in 1934. it's a concrete superructure. So that's the superructure is the top that sits on the concrete abovements that are upside and the wind walls. Those all support the top of the bridge. so it's you know near 100 years old and that's you know the full life of a bridge. So 43 structure currently 43 feet. the clear span which is the opening between the abutments. so between those vertical walls is 40 ft currently. So that's a clear span over the channel and 30 foot curve to curb basically the distance between the curbs is 30 ft currently and 28 ft a little less on the approach roadways and the average amount of traffic that's seen on the bridge per day is 400 vehicles. The drainage area is 53 square miles. So
some decent flow going through this bridge. All right. So couple pictures. So So look at the bridge. looking downstream. This is the downstream elevation. So we're looking upstream and you can see see there it's just it looks different than on the presentation. but it's it's a little grainy. So here it's the upstream elevation. So we're looking downstream. So looking east. and you can see the large rip wrap that would be put in place to control erosion of the embankments and protect the the foundation currently. So you know there's there's scour they're protecting it from scour what those current river is doing. And as you can see the bridges and constrictions in the channel. what you'll see is that the proposed structure will sit back so that the full channel width can the natural channel width can flow through
for a tree in the picture.
That's a it is I think it's a drainage pipe
from the Yeah, I think that drainage could be a tree.
It's tough to tell from
Yeah,
it may be a dry hydrant. there's going to be a dry hydrant installed on the downstream side on the proposed bridge, but I'm not sure it's, you know, it's not a major drainage. item. So, this is stand on the bridge looking upstream with public works on the left and the ball fields on the right. This is looking downstream. You see there's actually you can see there's couple scour holes here just from say most was probably attributed to recent storms in 2021. We had a couple of those. You know, we had a hurricane and Elsa. there was a couple storms that came through that certainly affected the bridge downstream as well. this bridge had overpopping the roadway low point which is basically where the entrance to the fields are almost up to
the bridge. So it didn't quite reach the the bridge surface. but there's you know scour in the foreground and then pretty good scour hole over to the right just from erosive forces and see the flow moving the the rocks in the stream bed around. This is looking west across the bridge with the fields the entrance to the fields on the right. So this is basically standing on the low point where the the road would over top first from flooding and see route six intersection. there's no current sidewalk. Well sidewalk it's a sidewalk that comes down along road from the intersection and terminates at the public works driveway. And this is looking the other direction. So looking north. I think it's a it was south previously. So just says north. upstream to the left downream to the right. And you can see the concrete bow straight u
that acts as a guide rail currently over the bridge. So that come open bridge rail for current highways standards. So the bridge or the prop site is within the FEMA flood zone A5 with established base flood elevations and FEMA floodway. So this is a this is the proposed site plan. The highlighted regulatory lines are in blue ordinary high water. green is the delineated wetlands that were delineated by a qualified soil scientist. U so those are all on the cell side. There's minimal impacts on the southwest side. We get a slide that actually shows the impacts. And then the red is the 100year base base flood 100year flood existing FEMA flood elevation. You'll notice on the right side that it's off of the page because that's the low point is you can see the pipe that crosses where there's the two there's a basically a small drainage channel that comes out where the two web lines are. The green so the underear flood line is just off the page on the right side. Then the yellow is are the floodway lines. So when you get flooding, this flooding will actually come across the the the ball fields first and over top it on this right side. see that there's a sidewalk. So it'll be a sidewalk extended from public works down to the to access the the park. And u the bridge will be 80 ft an 80 foot clear span. So versus the 40 that's existing. So, we're doubling the width to increase that channel width and allow you'll see new embankments that match upstream and downstream get that natural character of of the river channel. And there's going to be some rip rapid top stream bed on both sides to protect the new structure
from scour. Here's a cross-section just showing that it's going to be a little wider across the bridge. So 40 beats, 35 feet currently. and five and a half foot sidewalk on the west side shoulders and 11 foot lengths to meet current power standards. This is the proposed elevation. And the orange is the structure itself and the blue is the water surface to the existing ground. So the existing ground between the toll boulders which are the big circles won't be disturbed. So the the dashed horizontal or vertical lines basically behind the big toe holders is where the existing abovement faces are. So that's how much wider it's going to be to open this up more more flood flow through which will improve flooding decrease scour looking at about a foot decrease in water surface elevation for the 100 year design storm upstream. so the the blue line is the ordinary high water elevation that's 24 294 and a half is about a two-year storm elevation. the 100redyear will flow through the bridge. may get the bottom port wet on one side but it will not be under pressure flow which is a much of an improvement over the existing conditions where the 50year is under pressure flow and the 25 and 50 year currently over top and that's the 100 year now will over top the roadway low point. It'll be posted for flooding. So, you see signs out there if they're not
already out there, but they'll be added just to let people know that if there's a serious storm, that there is inundation possible of the roadway. you still inspect expect.
Yeah. And it's that the roadway is much lower than the bridge. You know, there's a pretty good hill coming down. So, it's it's really hard to assign these local roads were not built to highway standards. So we get a lot of this in Bunker Hill's the same way where it's much lower beyond the bridge and that wood over top as well. but you know much a much you know greater improvement of much improved hydraulics and scour and this will be fully protected. There's large rip wrap going to be placed in those toe holders kind of hold those in place and they're set to the scour elevation so the the new above won't be undermined. Is there going to be a change in water velocity because it's going to be shaped a little differently?
The velocity will increase a little bit. It's in the in the vicinity of the bridge. when you lower the water surface elevation and increase the hydraulic opening, the water is able to flow through easier. So you get a little more velocity. But if there was no bridge here, the way that the channel was formed naturally, it would be quite a bit faster. So the natural, we typically try to get as close to the natural conditions as we can. This was about as good as we could do here. So, you know, really opening it up and we're not expecting, you know, there's going to be rip wrap protecting the embankments in the vicinity of the bridge. So all the new embankments will be protected and it's not anticipated that upstream and
downstream that the velocities will have any measurable effect on the on the stream bed or the the embankments and the more frequent storms your two year 5 year 10 year there's really not much difference. So it's once you get to those the higher the higher storms that were previously blocked by the bridge face are now able to flow through. So that's where you see a little increase. So we designed the bridges to meet army core deep best management practices guidance. we've had several conversations. We went to an inter agency meeting last year. Yeah, I think it was maybe January. So, it's been almost a year since we went to inter agency coordination meeting met with deep fisheries armor corp deep peritting and they've we've incorporated all their guidance and recommendations to this point. So, everything you see in the plans is has been basically approved by them at this point. Deep fisheries
has signed off which believe is in the application package with the permit plan stamp by deep fisheries. it meets 1.2 two times bankful width which is so you want to be 20% wider than the bankful width. The bankful width is 55 ft. So we got quite a bit greater than that. you know that's what about 65 68 ft. So we went to 80 ft to give us some extra room and get two wildlife shells in for safe passage of wildlife with animals underneath the bridge. It also doubles as an inspection shell for inspectors to get to the other side of the bridge.
What type of wildlife is it designed to cross?
So, it's it allows the banks to continue underneath. So, basically any critters that are walking, you know, raccoons, possums, deer will fit under there and smaller can, you know, can cross underneath. That's so that for to keep them off the road.
Yeah.
The toe boulders are a something that deep likes to see because it also encourages, you know, the fisheries habitat. add some some rocks for them to hide behind and allows them to rest as they go upstream. All right. So, you can't see it top here. This is a water handling plan. This stage one. So, traffic will be detourred around the site similar to Orcher Hill. So the road will be closed, detourred and there'll be two stages of water handling. The there'll be water handling coffer dams placed in front of each abupment. This is stage one. So the self abotment will be removed first and the that'll be tied into the water dam will be tied into the sediment erosion control so that everything all the work will be completed behind confinement. It'll be dewatered through a dewatering basin which is that black square you know approximate location the contractor and you know not allow sediment to enter the water course and increase turbidity. so the while water handling is in place the existing abutments will be removed. The new abutments so substructure will be installed as well as the new embankments and those wildlife shelves rip wrap and native stream bed material top the the embankments up to the wildlife shelves. And this black line down here is a dry hydra. So that's the that is the either new it's a new I don't know if it's new location if that was if that dryer if that was a dryer on the other side but
the town asked for a dryer to be installed on this side. the 30 foot minimum channel opening is a is a deep requirement a start 34 ft but this what that's what this was designed for the channel opening minimum is to allow fisheries passage and some flow through while part of the channel is closed off. So stage two basically the same thing on the other side. the north side will be removed. The the new embankment and channel on the left side will be used as well as the opening that was untouched through the center of the channel as for flow while construction is is going on. And u same thing the the northman will be removed behind water handling and and the embankments will be installed. Can you go back one slide? I thought I understood what you were talking about and then this picture I got confused. Okay. So the on the left hand side of that
is where we have barriered the water off so that we could put in the new wing wall.
Yeah. Basically the Yeah. The substructure the foundation those.
So we're not doing anything over on the right hand side yet. But
Right. Okay. Now you go to the next picture.
So I guess everything that's on the left side has now been completed. So that's what it's showing is that's
Yep. So is water going through on that side now or?
Yes. So the circles are all So this is the the jagged is the water handling. the jagged line. These these are toe boulders that are that are being installed at the toe of the embankment. So that's not watering. They'll be you know not flush with the stream bed but close to the stream bed level.
So the top right of that image there is the ball fields essentially kind of that area.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Some of the lines look strange but they're those are property lines. so you can see like the town right away line that's dashed and then the property for ball fields. So ball field recreational property actually is starts in the middle of the stream but the blue line is ordinary high water and that is also where the existing abovement faces are. So ordinary high water line runs along the existing faces. So you can see that this this is these are the new substructures. So that's those are installed quite a ways back existing and so there's necessary impacts to the wetlands and water course. They're really unevoable for this type of work and you know do our best to to minimize and you know there's 700 713 square ft of temporary impacts the water course the the pink is the temporary water course impacts and so it looks greater across the top and that's for the potential so it's there's a utility relocation which I think is the overhead lines. So they're going to get moved back and there's potential basically that that area is allows for the potential of u work in the water course for the contractor to do the work. Typically with overhead lines, they don't need to get in to the they just move the poles and move the lines without getting in
the in the stream. But that's just to give them that opportunity if it's needed to get upstream. the so you've got a couple on the bottom as well and those are due to the temporary water handling outside of where the brown permanent impacts are which are for removal of the existing structure and then placing those the toe holders at basically where the existing abovement face is. So that's where your ordinary high water line is behind that rift installation which is right on the right on the edge of impacting the current water course. And then wetland impacts is no temporary impacts and that little yellow pocket in the bottom left corner is was unavoidable due to the installation of the river rabbit and embankment 13 square ft of wetlands. but there's also a thousand basically 1,000 square ft of water course created by widening the bridge. So there's a give and take here. so the total impacts 1559 ft and the indoor impacts which are measure 200 ft from ordinary high water area of special concern is 16,200 square ft. it's basically the whole site that's beyond the water course. so that includes roadway reconstruction, sidewalk and the bridge itself over the over the top of the
waterway and the embankment construction. So flood plane impacts there's a net excavation of 750 cubic yards. So that's basically all due to widening of the structure. So that fill from you know between where the existing structure is and the the proposed structure will be will all be removed and that's the difference between the cut and fill. Does that have to be tested for all site?
That is a current it's it's kind of been updated where all of that is now starting to get tested. Typically it's it's something they do from soils and historical knowledge of soils on the site. But they early on there's work done by DO's environmental agency. They determine whether or not there's dirty dirt or not. And but there'll be so yeah there's there's been testing done and it's been determined whether or not it can be reused. As far as I know this this is all reusable. Where are there is there a plan for where it would be reused?
so any excavated so there's a net X. So there won't be so there will be some that is excavated and then brought back in the stock pile area is determined by the contractor. if there's not an area on site to do it, then they'll typically will coordinate with the town. with public works having it an area right there. I wouldn't be surprised if that's where it goes temporarily. So that's pretty pretty quick for them to get in and out and maybe a part of the ball field parking. It's they try to be as you know as close as they can. So, sediment erosion control because it's a it's administered by the state,
they the contractor is required to follow the state guidelines for storm water quality and sediment erosion control. A third party inspector is hired by the town. So, they report to the town. so, they'll be overseeing the job. let's see. So there'll be water handling implemented. so complete work behind confinement. there will be sediment ro control fence. So there's exclusionary fencing on this project. due to see the next slide is that there's some protected species found on site and so you can see the hooks you're like real close but in the corners of the sediment ro it they they kind of hook back around and that's to exclude the species of concern from getting back into the site. there will be there'll be a sweep before construction started by a qualified herpatologist that remove species and that way they can't get back in. there's also a a reptile mitigation plan that was included in the the packet too that was
part of de approval. So they removed the superructure. Prior to moving that they install a debris shield that hangs below the superructure so that sediment debris does not fall into the into the river. temporary water handling covers to be installed at each to water any soil retention. Pumping will occur occur in an appropriate filtration basin. minimum channel passage for fish will be provided as coordinated with fisheries. Just not on the permit plans. Any stream bed as we talked about esated we talk about were used to maintain the characteristics and after construction all the areas will be stabilized and resur restored with graft turf establishment were appropriate. So it's a lot of natural resource coordination with deep army court. we have to discuss all potential species that will be impacted. So the fisheries have approved the permanent plans. There will be a time of year restriction for unconfined work and that's between June 1st and September 30th. So the contractor so within between June 1st and September 30th contractor could work in the stream without confinement because that's outside of you know the fisheries area you know time of concern. The contractor is allowed to install the
water handling coffer dam outside of that time typically to allow the work to be completed by behind refinement. So if they start in May, they can install that and then all that work is completed by confin behind confinement. Typically they're not working unconfined in the watering deep will be out on the site because of the species as well. So there'll be a lot of oversight on this on this project. So NDB the project is an NDB area. So nationally national diversity database which is the state list of species there were several identified turtle snakes and bass were certifi received a final determination for the project in September basically stating
that due to the precautions taken and that are in the contract and permit plans that the project is accepted. been approved. as we talked about this reptile protection plan, all viologist be on site during construction and all the best management practices required been incorporated into the plans. Same goes for the national federal species which is US Fish and Wildlife Service BMP has been incorporated for them as well. They're pretty similar and kind of go hand in hand with the state species. So that line that says the qualified herblogist is on site during construction.
Yeah.
That whole time that the bridge is under construction, we've got a herptologist on site. He'll be out probably I mean I think a plan state that they have to be on site during the you know the period that is specific to these reptiles that are concerned. It's there's a there's a reptile protection plan that read through that and you can get a
I'm not an expert on that but they are qualified they are
well it talks you know because we got the turtles we got the snakes we got the
yeah and each of them had a herpatologist requirement there and they all say during construction which you know is a long
period time.
Yeah. I don't expect them to be out there the entire time, but you know, they'll be there to compete.
Yeah. I mean, you know, the contractor's going to follow the plan. So, and then you know, there's an inspector to follow that as well. so if we've also coordinated with state historic preservation office or shipo I know effect was determined historic properties on site and same with tribal or tippo this the trib have been notified and we received a letter of no comment from tribes. So permitting for this project, we're here for the local in the wetlands. at state level, there is a flood management certification DOT and deep that is in the final stages of approval. and federally Army Corps. This is an Army Corps general permit self-verification that will be completed once a contractor is selected and that'll be approved before the contractor could start work. the project is slated to begin in the spring and be finished at the end of the year, so approximately November. And that's it. So over to any more questions. Thank you. So I guess you're looking back. So I'm looking back to the what we did here as a commission during the last bridge and you know we decided it wasn't a significant activity and that bothered me after that and and it had to do you know public works was doing a bunch of stuff on the banks over
there before the construction of the bridge started.
Which bridge are you talking about? Sorry.
What's that? Are you talking about the long hill bridge or a different bridge?
Bunker bunker.
Yeah.
And and I, you know, watched what was going on. I said, "How could this not be a significant impact?" Granted, we got everybody in his brother providing a lot of oversight, approval to this, but you know, that's our job to make sure we got to put it down. So, I guess that's a concern, Mike, that we didn't do that last time. And I'm not hearing anything about what the public works thing is that's going to be going on prior to in its support of you or whoever comes in to actually, you know, do the construction of the bridge. You know, the bridge construction went very smoothly. I was just we were all gung-ho to get public works in. And when I saw what they were doing, I was surprised that the extent of their excavation along the banks, what they were doing there and all that stuff. And there's nobody here tonight to talk about any of that. That was just kind of extra stuff that got thrown in when we were doing the bridge. I I don't know. I just, you know, not the smartest guy in the world on this stuff and I I know the final product over there with the the Bunker Hill Bridge looks looks great, but to me I was always bothered by we didn't treat it as a significant impact. It's probably the biggest wetlands thing we've had going on in Andover in years. And I I can't think of
anything bigger. and you know, we made Grimmaldi go through the significant impact up there for putting his driveway in up to to his house. So, that's a little bit what bothers me. And the people that that are going to be doing that aren't the ones who were here for doing the Bunker Hill. So, you know, all that experience and the lessons learned is is gone. So,
that that bothers me.
I think it's a Joe would be Oh, or you designate I think there was I read something that you would be on site during active construction to kind of make sure
Yeah. minimal.
Well, it's like that one we check and you know, yeah, with public works it was kind of a coordination. I think it was coordination with the contractor that was awarded to figure out what so mapped it out. I'm trying to remember. I think what they did was probably some clearing and drug clearing and grubbing ahead of time which is something they can
you know get started early.
Yeah, that was the whole thing. They wanted to get started early. They wanted to, you know, get rolling on that right after you acted on that. and we're not we're not hearing anything tonight about what that is that they might be thinking they want to do with this bridge. Maybe it's nothing. I don't know.
Oh, I think you did speak to that a little bit when I was talking about the image that you actually asked for clarification on the left side and went and showed the expansion on the right side. That's kind of what it was referring to. What else? What is public works actually planning to do there?
Yeah, that's
right.
We are we're in, you know, we are, you know, this isn't Oakland review area. This is the real stuff.
I mean, if it's something other than what's being presented tonight, then it would need another permit.
Yeah. So, so all the work they do should be within the regulated areas that are that are shown as, you know, disturbed within the permit plans. But shouldn't we know what they're going to do? Shouldn't there be kind of like a presentation?
Well, they would have to follow. That's what you're saying. They would have basically following the construction plans and whether it's them or the contractor that does it. It's there's
no following the secret.
Yeah. To do something else because they're different like they have to if they get asked to do the task, it has to be in accordance with this if that's what you approve. I can't speak to the Bunker Hill one because I I wasn't involved in that. I can just say for my background, this design is significantly better for the river. So, whatever temporary impacts there are with construction, the constriction of the river right now is causing like just from an environmental perspective, so many problems. but I think in the long term you know there would definitely be not only just from a flooding transportation perspective improvement but you know definitely from a stream habitat perspective significant.
Yeah. I think the, you know, public works, I think, tries to get out there, you know, that's what they did on Bunker Hill is to get out there and and get the construction started early so that the project, you know, is finished earlier, but they aren't under any of these time constraints that that are in this permitting package. They should be subject to the same constraints.
They still have to follow deviate. The only thing that they can deviate is
water port and wing wall maintenance which we approve the permit for them for 5 years of maintenance. So they could technically do that. So, they're rubbing off vegetation that could be considered maintenance just like that follows that permit that you know that we approved two years ago or so.
Just like there's a pipe that you know they wanted there's stuff they can excavate all that out. I guess it' be the same thing, but I don't they're not going to be able
that bridge doesn't appear to be smaller than a 24 in diameter pipe.
Correct. I don't think that this job has anything to do with that permit that we approved. That was only for 2400 pipe.
No, there were provisions for other stuff for clearing of vegetation. It was replacement of
y
pipes for 24 in.
Okay.
So
again that bridge bigger than 24 in.
Yeah.
And we replaced it. Okay.
So there was no well permit for that project. Is that what you're saying? I had no idea. I wasn't smart enough at the time. You know, we I knew the, you know, everybody had signed off on it. I just didn't think we executed our responsibilities and by doing that, you know, we learned a lot. We're we're not going to learn by not processing permits and applications.
And I thought it was a significant activity. doesn't mean we have to make it a lot harder, but you know, if we're going to tell Remaldi he can't put his driveway across the wetland down there with the stuff, you know, we ought to hold the town to a standard that when we're replacing a bridge, we look at it and maybe view it as a significant activity. I don't want to make it hard just to make it hard, but I think that we need to be, you know, a little more consistent. I think the thing I was look what I was talking about last time was that like the bridge is existing currently. Yep.
And then we're just replacing an existing structure with like you said something significantly better. So it's it's basically like a temporary like most of the impacts are temporary, but we're not like if we were building a bridge that there there was no bridge there before that would be to me that would fall under a significant impact. Like we'd want to get as much input as we could.
but the fact that it's there and it needs replacement, it's it's kind of
like what are the alternatives? What are the feasible and prudent alternatives to? I mean, you could just let it fall into the river or delete it entirely. Like it has I mean, you know,
like really
I think the difference too is like this isn't the first time we're hearing about the project. It's gone through numerous
per Yeah. that I think have addressed some of those concerns that otherwise I'd totally agree with you. Like if this was the first point in the permitting process, then I think it would be appropriate. you know to bring it to public hearing and such. But from what I've read and what I heard, I think most of the you know you know there's already a plan in place for any wildlife impacts either terrestrial or aquatic. I think the net impact to the wetlands pretty minor. It's like square feet. Yeah. like
down.
so yeah, I understand your perspective and I I certainly can appreciate that.
But I think it's a good point. I like what you're saying. We're replacing existing versus putting something brand new that we don't know what's going to happen with
concerned that Hank has Hank Roder.
He's provided put on this.
He's on the he's theologist. right here.
He's the one he was at the Monker Hill project doing that one. He's doing this one too, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Could there be opportunity to meet with public works before any activity starts?
There should be a pre construction meeting, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's part of the
Yeah. And who from the town will be overseeing this? Well, in the previous it was Eric. Yep. Got most of the information. I would visit periodically to check eroding control and you know that stuff and then Hank was over there quite a bit from what I heard from bridge people there. but yeah quite a bit.
Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, but but somebody's got to be, you know, we talked about this guy doing oversight reporting to the town. I'm just curious who that person is that's going to be taking on that responsibility. So, it's a consultant inspector. So, as part of the contract, part of the the consultant inspector is hired and they're they report to the town. So they're so it's separate from the contractor. So you know they're so it's really it's done as backup for the town to have that level of confidence that they're you know they're directing
the
so it's a third party inspector. Yes. Yeah. And I don't think they've been hired yet but they will be in you know before the project starts. There's a selection process.
They're supposed to look after the best image of the town. Right. Anyway,
they I think they have the authority to stop the job if it's not going according to plan. Correct.
Have they replaced Eric yet? Have they got a temporary guy for who's been hired for six months
while we find somebody new to knocking on doors? Oh,
really? Yeah. but I think to your point, so with the Bunker Hill one, did the public works activity, was that under the oversight of the contractor that was, and you may not know the answer, but I'm just curious if you do. Was it under the oversight of the contractor that was hired for the larger job or was it kind of preparatory work done separate from that contract under the oversight of the town directly?
Yeah, I think that's how it went.
Which one? the town directly and then or maybe that was Eric and Jay.
Yeah.
Neither of which are here.
Yeah. I mean I think it's somewhat more visible location than Bunker Hill. it has damage too. J, are you concerned public works doing more damage to the wetlands than Yeah, we're supposed Yeah, that you know they were in there. You know, I did I didn't get over there to see a lot of what was going on, but I heard from some other guys who were over there that was very extensive and and we didn't get any any visibility on what was actually going to happen. You know, we got this idea that we're going to replace this bridge and it's all very locally confined and over on Bunker Hill, it wasn't that way. we were expanded you know way out to clear the sides maybe you know I don't know what we did over there I haven't really gone to look but it seemed to be separate from the contract to build the bridge they were kind of two different things and and we're not hearing anything from public works tonight we've got a new team you I was hoping that somebody from public works would be here to tell us what
they're going to do and what precautions they're going to take so that they don't do damage to the wetlands over there. That, you know, that's well, they should follow this. Whoever does it, whether it's public works or whether it's even been decided yet.
because I guess technically if they don't follow this, they can't work with the whales without coming in front of us anyway. And if they don't violence, then we don't.
Is there I I didn't see any of the pictures or drawings that described anything where remediation of the banks or something else will be going on. you know, how far away from the bridge wing walls this work is going to be happening. I'm not sure if there's remediation of the thing because you're essentially removing material. So, I don't know if there's really remediation to be done. My understanding is you're kind of like cutting out the sides and then installing the sides essentially. So, I wouldn't think there's really too much to remediate beyond any impact from the activity of the machinery to conduct that work.
That's a different type of fruit. That one was a little more involved cuz you had the culvert. It was like three steel culvers and then they're filled with fill. So you had to basically dig all that stuff out of the screen.
Yeah.
Okay. Well, nobody cares. I guess
we don't care.
Well, we certainly don't want them just pulling up on the wetlands and with their digger. Well,
I think that's what happened last time. I think that's what you
Yeah, I was going to say it sounds like you're saying a little bit more monitoring or
It always happens that way. No matter what any of these jobs you go look at, what you see is not what you think you're going to see when you get the little brief on what's going to be going on down there.
Yes. You know, it's kind of like one of my favorites is we get a drawing that shows the extent of clearing for a a building site. And what happens is they go out and they clear everything and then they put little ribbons around the trees on the outer perimeter to show the extent of clearing that was marked off before they started to clear.
Yeah.
You know, I'm trying to hope that we do better and we got a less experienced team. We didn't have a team that went through that.
I don't know.
Never met the Never met the public works guy. No, we lost him. We lost the you know the number two guy in the department over there.
I like no way what they're going to do.
Do you have
Who's going to be who's going to be
the police? I mean that's
Yeah. If that's going to be Jim, the new you know, town administrator who will be done in May.
Yeah. Kind of. well, I don't know that, you know,
and also there's going to be heavy oversight from deep. I mean, I honestly could probably do more than I could do.
Okay. Yeah.
So, you're going to be down there, right, during the project periodically?
Yeah.
I mean, you
And if you saw something
Yeah. If you out of spec or whatever.
Yeah. And I can get with public works beforehand and we can reasonable question to say who's in church.
Yes.
Right. because we're all sitting here.
Yeah. Well, then if we don't know, it's going to be we have we have to look at like the permit that we grant and then we we kind of put on our wetlands hat and focus on the things that we can that we can control there. So yeah, like limits of clearing whether things flagged and and
okay,
like it could we could
from that bridge. Do I see public works with the tractor before I get concerned?
It's going to be in accordance with the
that's steep the closest one. They can't go down the work slope essentially. That's pretty straight shot down in that area.
Yeah, the other side's pretty steep too. Well, that's what I was gonna ask. Do you have any sense for the size of equipment that would be required to implement this and what approach they would take?
There'll be some pretty big equipment as be excavators and cranes.
If we were bringing some
If we were having a guy build a house, we would make him show us where he's going to refuel that tractor.
Yeah. That, you know, all that stuff. So we're not you know discharging stuff into the wetlands
and all of that is is has to be submitted by the contractor before they start. That's difference in these bigger projects is that contractors you know not on until after all permitting has to be approved before design is really complete and then the contractor takes it and then they have to submit their own contractor drawings to the engineer. because it's going to
in the engine
I don't yeah we get involved at that point they either submit to the town or to the consultant inspection team but we do see some stuff after construction if it's I don't know permitting or hydraulics related effects I yeah So yeah, I would definitely want to know like and this may not be a question you can answer today and it may be part of that pro process. but storage of any material that's taken out. I don't love the idea of using the ballfield parking lot just because that's the town's only recreational fields and that's key recreation season if you will. So I think that's going to upset a lot of folks. it may be somewhat inevitable. At the same time, because of
just the landscape out there,
it has to be approved by the town. So, it'll it'll go through the town to
because there's two sides, you know, because it's going to be,
you know, they'll probably use public works in order from the south side. The north side, they've got to, you know, find a spot. And so,
yeah. And I don't I don't have a clear understanding of this. the property ownership on the downstream side.
Oh, there's the tur downream side. All woodlands. So,
but is it private? So, if you're facing downstream on the left bank, is that private land at that point? Downstream of the bridge
on the left side.
so, like the top
of the church down to the water, right?
Yeah. Yeah, I think it is the
church that side.
I don't know. It's on the other side.
Yeah, I think it might be prime.
It might be private. Yeah.
Has the church way been on this?
I don't think he if there's any right of way affected then the property owners are contacted by DOT. So usually has its own Freight Wake office, but I don't think this is the rightway line for the this property and there's no impacts below that. So there was a public information meeting that was held two years ago, three years ago. So all runners are contacted plus they usually go further and everyone gets the notice in the mail to and it goes on the town website and so basically go through this at the very early stages to get input and
pre basically conceptual or pre-esign to get any input from the public and stakeholders so that that can be included in the in the project early on. Can I ask a question that doesn't do anything to do with weather, but so the roads closed? Yep.
So the people that normally would have come out from Route Six to get to the ball fields but can't.
Right.
We're going to have a light on Hendy so we can monitor traffic.
Yes. Promised me that that had been approved.
It did. Yes.
Okay. I had heard some but I had also said it was definitely going to be temporary.
Yes. Well, yeah, that's what I heard. Sh. It was supposed to be temporary, but it but it did get approved for this project.
Yeah. So, all traffic would be routed.
Yeah. Because otherwise Yeah.
Okay. Sorry.
I do know about the traffic.
We have to make that joyous period. Something else is even worse in some ways.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, we actually can't make any decisions tonight.
Right.
We should accept issue. Yeah.
Do we want I mean, I don't think we'll be able to answer any questions. do you want to request DH at the next meeting or or
do you want to do a sidewalk with them? maybe get maybe available because I'm sure he has a pretty good understanding of the site at this.
Yeah, get the new public works guy to just show us what he's going to do.
Well, I guess that's that's not a sidewalk. sidewalk is.
No,
that's just this is
that's something different.
That's more pre-construction meeting.
We could do it here or we could do it mean just having pictures of whatever you don't know. We're being asked to approve this thing and you know a lot of questions. Maybe that's the way it is on big projects or something. And maybe I'm not smart enough to to figure out what what this plan is telling me. I'll give it another shot. Try to figure it out. But I certainly I thought there was a little disconnect between public works and the plan last time around.
And now you're like you said, you're more concerned because there's only people.
Yeah.
We could set up a meeting or something and
Well, we could ask him to show up at the next in the evidence meeting.
Sure.
Before I prove the actually approve it.
Y I'm okay with that.
Yeah, we could ask him to come and then probably develop some kind of pre like a condition draft a condition prestruct construction meeting and then mark your limits of clearing if if they're participating in it.
Sure. Do you prefer to be there for Greg for anything for that or no? Was that Do you prefer to be there for the meeting with DPW or
I don't think you the next meeting here.
Well, that would be Yeah, that would be
Oh, yeah. You would have to be here anyway.
The January meeting.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, we could put some DPW and people can attend virtually, right?
Yes. Yeah. So more you know hydraulics and environmental construction guy project engineer get him to attend as well to answer more construct all your questions as well.
Yeah. What do you think Jeff? Sounds good. That was good. Cool. Better than what we are right now. Yeah. Anybody have any other discussion for All right. So, we'll accept the permit application and we'll decide on next meeting.
I have one question.
It's a simple one. It's kind of like, oh, I'm not going to do a wetlands line, but you had made a few references to no sidewalk. Is the new bridge going to have a sidewalk?
Yes.
It'll connect on that one side.
Yep. From connect from the where it terminates at public works to the balls. Okay.
That's what I think. That's a nice addition. Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm done.
All right. Good to me.
Thank you.
This one's important to me, too. I'm I'm pretty local.
Thank you much. Thank you.
What's the Is it the first Monday?
It'll be first two. probably first Tuesday,
but
Tuesday the 5th, January 5th.
Okay.
Thank you. Thank you. So the next per application 25-16 Eric Johansson County Andover DPW application for renewal exist IWWC 23-1 general permit for work in around various strange systems in expire March 6, 2026.
Yeah. So this is
one we did a couple years.
Yeah.
It's basically a renewal of that one. We had talked about it. I talked about it with Mark Williams when he was like the acting director and then they hired Eric. So I sent him an email saying like, "Hey, this is expires March 6. You should put something in before January." So he just went and filled one out and so yeah, so now we can we could discuss it.
Has there been any issues? Well, so I would like to ask the question, what what has the commission seen come to the commission over the last three years?
Nothing.
Yeah,
there's been stuff.
I I know. I I have shown pictures. Yes, there was Bear Swamp. There was one on Cone Road, I think.
There's been a few things that came to your level. You you have seen that.
Yeah, they came to your limbs.
But isn't they didn't
Isn't that the point of the permit too though? Is that a It doesn't come.
It is.
But you know, my question is are we getting are we seeing what we should be seeing to execute our responsibilities? And I'll go back to the Bunker Hill Bridge. I'm not sure that that's the case. and I went trying to So,
was that permit used to authorize the bumper hill work or
I don't know.
Yeah. No, that wasn't there was
that was part of the bridge approval.
Just like it is on this approval and I don't know what it I don't know what it is. That's
I don't know if this
Yeah, I think that's your concern. You don't know if there's extra
I don't know if this is the second or third iteration of this.
This is okay. inside. So I was here for the first when this first came to be because it was I remember the discussion being like do I have to come to you every time I want to like clear out a story that's so what I was trying to do
today to get ready for this discussion was I was going back to in 2022 we did a bunch of work over on shotty mil brother okay
and I I think it was either I don't think we did a public hearing down there.
Yeah, yeah, we did. Okay. So, I remember this guy talking and he said, "The water comes running down the road into my property and I get it turned into a lake and went to Jay and said, "What about that?" And even though it was in the package there, he said, "Oh, we're not ready to do that yet. That's that's going to be next year." And we heard nothing about I have no idea whether the guy's happy, unhappy.
It never got done.
Okay. So, the guy's still unhappy.
That was actually that that was pre general permit.
Yeah.
We had discussed it because it was off of Birch Drive, I think.
Well, B Yeah, a lot of Birch Drive. But it was your whale road shoting bill.
Well, he was going to capture the water that flowed cuz it kind of split. There was like it comes down goes across Birch Drive went through this guy's backyard and down like the back side of the hill.
Okay.
And then there was another the one that they did that ran down Shotty Mill where they like put it back
off the road. but I had told Jay at the time that we that's kind of like like the purpose of the wetlands act is to not drive things out, not divert water courses like that since you're like send there was like the water naturally flows that way. If you wanted to bottle it up and send it this way that like I kind of was like it's not really something that you want to see. because you're like basically like drying out the side of the hill and moving it over here.
So that's kind of why I was like that's not a general permit thing. That's probably
going to be a much bigger project than think it would be.
That does my heart good to hear that because you know as far as I knew the everything was already done and we never got any at all. you know, there's there's a a lot of difference. for instance, you know, the permit allows us to clean the the leaves and the debris out of a plunge pool. And I know you were down looking at the one next to Grimaldi's driveway the other day,
and you know, I looked at that thing. I said, "Wow, well, we haven't done any maintenance on this because it's all full of crap." And but anyhow,
that's kind of
I just don't have a sense on
I haven't seen a lot of the general permit stuff because we've had so much turnover lately. I think they haven't really been doing a lot of that extra maintenance stuff lately.
Yeah, because I thought the thing was okay. I was just thinking there were probably some jobs going on that
really hasn't been because they've been kind of just doing the bare minimum while they trying to get
staff. So now that he's here, he was looking at it and you know I asked him to if he had any questions or anything he wanted to add or change this is great you know because he came from commentary they've been trying to do a similar thing for years.
Yeah.
they haven't quite worked out what they wanted to do yet. So
kay. So maybe there is no big jobs that have been done over the last few years. Yeah. No, the only one I can think of was the shoddy mill road thing that I was wondering how it got resolved and
Yeah. No, that was Yeah, that was definitely I discouraged that because I it would be much more extensive project to kind of reroute that.
Yep. That was that was my thinking at the time. I said this is a big deal, you know, and and the neighbor is complaining down there. We keep flooding out his property and it bothers me now that we haven't fixed it. You know, it's been three years since you know, we were down there working
those things and we haven't done anything about it.
Is the flooding a result of the storm water management design?
That's hard to know. Okay.
All I know is
it was pre that was pre we were going to move a sump further down the road to catch the rain or something to keep it from, you know, running right AC the pipe moved right across the road into his yard or something. I I not sure I you know it was three years ago. I don't recall. I just remember the guy coming here and he was upset you know and you know the I think it's as big an issue as any. I certainly have lived it a bunch over at the gravel pit on trying to manage you know water runoff and to adjacent properties and making sure that we're you know doing that. Okay. So, I felt that guy's pain and what didn't know why we're we're not hearing about the solution to it? But if we haven't done anything, I guess that's why we haven't heard.
So, in your experience, Joe, would public works come to you to check if they thought it was something more than just like standard covert anything? Okay.
Yeah, it would be, you know, that that and I was I kind of try to so the bigger stuff I would try to take before after pictures too. So they would let me know like, hey, we're going to we're planning on doing this that bear swamp broke and you know going to work on it next week or something. So I go out and snap some before pictures and then I do it and go out there again. Yeah.
Do you have any concerns with reissuing the permit as it was? It didn't It looked like it was going to be exactly the same.
Yeah, that's all I was wondering was if if anybody wanted to had any different ideas or wanted to change anything and the new guy, he didn't he didn't really have anything to add. he was going to come he I think he was thinking of coming next month. So,
let's see. Maybe we could discuss both of them.
He'll be Yeah. If he's going to have to be here for the bridge, then it'll work out good.
Wasn't the only thing when we did it, we at first you guys talked about doing it for five years and then two or three. So, I mean,
is that part of the conversation? Do you want to do it for five years or do you want to just do it for
you can keep extending it? I think up to 10 years total. So, I don't know how do I mean when you get to that point. So we would have we have what seven more years of extension. So you could do like another three years, you could do two, you could do five, you know.
So it's really a permanent extension that
Yeah. Especially if we're not changing anything.
And the current one expires in March. So we have
I forget when we got until Yeah. February 3rd, which is would be a meeting day, I think. Right. Yeah.
I was just wondering if you know that was one of the things you were looking for. Do you need us to make a motion to ask I don't remember what we just did for the previous agenda item to ask someone from DPW to be here to discuss or
yeah I can tell he's
okay be here.
Yeah.
Okay. So, we'll accept the permanent application IWWC25-16 and we will table for discussion at the next meeting. Agent enforcement and report actions approval of permit application IWWC 25-14. Chris how you say the last name. to tie up 322 Lake Road, abandoning existing septic tank, removing existing leech fields, and installing a new tank line and leech fields in accordance with septic system repair proposal dated 1013 work within the 200 foot up area.
Yep, that one's when was that done? that was like in November, I think. Did that. So, the bigger thing is just hopefully the grass will grow. I thought actually I went over there to look and the owner was there kind of told him to keep an eye. They have all the silk fence and the hay bale still.
cuz Yeah, it's likely that it'll just be kind of dirt until spring. So
they seated it already.
Yeah.
Okay.
But it's kind of late.
Yeah.
we'll have to keep an eye on that to make sure not too many erosion problems. But it was kind of one of those like the thing like barely fit in the lot. So
yeah, I was gonna say but
wasn't much room for anything.
So yeah. So that that one there was another one that came in after the agenda is 280 Route 6. That was actually I think I probably brought that up in a previous meeting. That was a violation. and they clear cut the area without a permit. And
Oh, that's the one that corner.
Yeah. And I met with him and we decided to do plantings in the river area kind of make a barrier so it's like a natural, you know, like I plant pine trees and then let the rest of it grow in. So
they clear in the wetlands.
Huh?
PL in the wetlands.
No. No. One reviewer.
Yeah. But so yeah, so he finally got because we had to work with zoning and stuff and so we he finally got his application together for that. So that's online if you wanted to take a look, but it has the plantings there and everything.
The application is to zoning or to run
to
for Yeah. for work in the upload review area.
So you'll be approving that.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Which house is that?
280 Route 6. So it's it was Scott's house. It's like right across the street from there. There was an old subdivision, like a three lot subdivision. And this is the last one. It's like closest to the road. You can see it good if you're going if you're heading west from here.
Are they building? I mean, it
's clear. Yeah, I know it's clear, but I mean,
well, he's got to he's got to get through there. He's trying to do a multif family thing, so he needs permit from zoning. So, he's got to do that, but he's got to get the wetlands approval first. Yeah.
Is it residential or
business?
So, how does the new law come into play there?
See, what's the question? This is not really a well-known topic, but the new state law that was passed that I have very rudimentary understanding of seem to read as though if it's a proposal for affordable housing, which I think a multif family, you know, would fall under in a commercially zoned law, it can basically kind of just overrule local zoning and get approved. So the issue on that particular lot is back when the subdivision was created and again records are very sketchy but a subdivision was approved in a business zone which is contrary to our regulations
but it was approved nonetheless. Why it was approved? Can't figure that part out. I think it was approved in error, but it know it's an approved lot. Even if it's in the business, which you know, our regulations today say, you know, you can't do that unless it's there's no other viable use for the the property essentially. And so they've got a right to build proof subdivision lot. shouldn't shouldn't have been probably, but I can't speak to that.
If it were to come to us today for subdivision, we would probably we would disapprove it because it's not not allowed.
Yep. So, what else did I have? Oh, a couple other things. I had complaint from 135 Shotty Mill Road. and I took it's like right before the transfer station. It's actually similar to the the one with the church. I think it was like a tree company that was dumping wood chips over side of the hill and there's a brook down in the bottom of the ravine and stuff. It doesn't look like anything's gotten into the brook, but I sent him a letter. it got mailed out today actually. so
the owner of the property is dumping or
I I don't know. I'm not sure. He had a tree service come truck there. So
he worked I think he worked for a tree service.
So he got to bring the equipment home, let his kids ride around on it.
It's kind of weird.
What are we going to do with these chips? any.
And then another thing, talked to Jed a little bit about it, but we we took the archived applications off of the website for now because we were getting these scams. It's been going around in Massachusetts and Connecticut lately where they'll use like AI to harvest information from like public hearings and anything that's online. They put that they put these like really detailed fee requests. So somebody will go through a public hearing and then they'll email them from like andoverct.a.com USA.com and they'll be like it'll be like like the one had Wayne the agent's name on it and it had all these different things that
hey had to do and it's really specific because they have information like oh based on this plan revision and it's like the one that's on file this and it's
like they they ask for $4,800. I think that's like the common thing.
Wow. which I think if they lowered that probably be were convincing but I said don't know end of her well
yeah but they're you know we kind of tried to because we got a few of them last like two of them last week and then one this week so we had to kind of try to figure out what to do
like people coming to you complaining or they were
they received those from you know
but did that I mean did they realize they were scammed yeah luckily yeah but so We talked to the trooper. I talked to Jim, the interim manager. I for our applications, I redacted the email addresses cuz I thought that was like the main point of contact. So,
Oh, I didn't notice that. Okay. Explains that cuz I was curious about that.
So, I was going to do that with all of them going forward and then I was going to go back and do that with the archive ones and put them back up, but just now we just kind of like hid the page for now. So,
is there a way to put a notice out to the town? I know not all applicants are necessarily town residents.
Yeah, we put I put one on our website like when you go on the wetlands page, it's right there. and then we talked to Roberta and she was going to do something with the alert that text message phone call thing.
reviews on that. I think I get some of them, but it seems like it's not consistent. People getting
alerts. The community newsletter might be another one to just put kind of a note in.
Yeah. Facebook pages,
whatever. She was talking about some of those.
But you figure if enough people know about it, then maybe they can, you know, somebody's like, "Oh, the town's trying to turn. Oh, that's a scam." You know, and then, you know, hopefully it'll get more common.
And I think you're right. I mean, if they're asking for $4,000, most people if they, you know, get a bill of that size that they're not expecting, I would certainly call.
I know if they did $50, it would be more
But then they would probably pay it and then they would probably never you probably never, you know,
but that's what I'm saying. The scammers would make out better if they lowered the price.
So, yeah. So, there's that. So hopefully I can get the archive ones back up because it's nice to be able to review the old stuff. So
I was hoping you weren't going to say, "Oh, it's been down for two years now. How come you didn't notice until now?"
No.
No, you noticed right away.
Okay.
Cuz I knew. Yeah.
Do we have a car riding policy? Like I mean at some point we probably don't want to keep things.
Yeah. There hasn't been any anything.
So before you remove stuff, like what was the oldest?
It's basically been since I started here. It was just we put them online and then it just kind of kept going.
Yeah. Like 2023 or so was probably the first that we started doing that.
It was earlier than that. I think there was like 21 or 20 or
Yeah.
because the gravel pits out of there. We've been wrestling with that for a long time.
Yeah. I think I No, I had I stepped down in the middle of the pandemic. and I think we were doing it before that Amanda had started it. So, but anyway, it might be something to think about like do we want, you know, I know this dated seven years seems arbitrary, but you know, seven years we things are less to, you know, be
Yeah, there's there's still on the sh there's a shared
building department file, the one I tried to send you, but it's like it wouldn't I don't know cuz it's a Microsoft thing and it wasn't compatible or something, but they're all like everything that's on the website is on there and in the paper folder.
So,
and I don't know, we're still pursuing town website or website revamp. but that might be a time to think about it too is
especially if we're moving to a new system, you know, what do we want to transfer versus
declare, you know, outdated. But
yeah, figure out some other way to store it.
Yeah. This question for another day. We're fully staffed again.
Yeah. Have you heard anything yet from the Rockefellers on what they're going to do on Lake Road or Lakeside Drive rather?
Not yet.
Okay.
I don't know if they're waiting after the holidays or if they're getting somebody to work on it. I know we were talking because they have to do the nutrient allocation.
Yep.
And we're trying to there's a pipe that goes like directly into the lake, the drainage pipe. We're trying to figure out a way to not have that anymore. So, I think that's going to be like the hangup. And I was trying to get it so that the whatever we do for the nutrient allocation worksheet is going to be what's presented to wetlands. So, I don't know, but might take a little while.
Are they expanding?
So, they own two lots over there.
Okay.
And so, they've got a little house next to them. We're planning on tearing down a little house. Okay.
Expanding their house and then putting a a workshop over there on the other side of the garage.
Okay.
So,
I was saying the main the daughter is my son's age, so rented it on that.
That's true.
And I couldn't imagine doing too much more on that lot. But that makes sense if there's a mother involved.
That little house is kind of close to the lake. I'll live there.
Yeah. Very late. So maybe it's not a bad thing that that's being taken out of there. I do you know if he's going to take it apart and keep it or I don't know. Yeah.
It's a beautiful little house.
It is a nice lake house. It's just too bad you just couldn't pick it up and put it somewhere better.
They got like sell it for a dollar or something.
All right. Sorry about that. Is there any further discussion for current application for 5-14?
No.
Okay. Can I get a motion to approve current application 25-14?
Oh, that's that was already done.
Oh, we that's
Oh, you approved that. Okay. Right.
That So that's it, right?
Yeah. That was the end of the report. Oh, okay. All right. So then the only thing is other business proposal to move 2026 regular meeting dates the first Tuesday of every month. Review and update by change dates.
Any of those dates show move because of holidays or anything straight first Tuesday.
Unless I missed something, it was all the same. And like you said with the election day
Yeah.
Wally had said that there they should be over there by then. So we should have this room.
Okay. Yeah.
Or vice versa meet there.
Yeah. But I think they're going to they're trying to like move all their specialized network or something. They have to move like some secure network over there.
Yeah. And thank you all for considering. I find Mondays to just be generic, but
I think it'll work better.
Yeah, I like to sleep into the week.
Yeah, Monday's a little jarring as it is, let alone adding a a 7:00 meeting. But, I will make a motion to approve the 2026 regular meeting dates as proposed.
I'll second. All those in favor?
I oppos. Okay. All pass. So, the next regular meeting is going to be Tuesday, January 6th, 2026 at 7 p.m.
All those in favor? I
motion to adjourn is a long meeting today. take very long.
Yeah, I know. Especially compared to the 9 minutes.
Yeah, I knew you wouldn't be able to break that four minute.
Yeah,
four minutes. Four minutes. It was quick.
Before that, I think was 10 minutes.
Yeah. Yeah. We said I'll never break that.