Right. Thank you. we're going to get started with the town of Andover Board of Selectmen regular meeting for Monday, January 12th. We're getting started at 7 o'clock. Our first order of business is the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. we're going to move on to item two, public speak. we're going to start with Liz Loatch.
Hi. Oh, you took me off guard. just want to say hi and thanks for all you guys do. Looking forward to a quick meeting for you.
Thank you, Louise Goodwin.
I'm all set. Thank you. Diane Grineer, Stephen King,
nothing at this time. Happy new
Bill Penn.
happy 2026 and, just listening tonight. Thank you.
I have a cell phone. 3815 Oh, thank you, Jeff. Sorry, had a hard time unmuting myself. I just wanted to mention a few things. The welcome to Andover sign is is done the second one. but now of course the ground is frozen. So we're going to have to wait a few months until the public works department can can dig the holes to go ahead and install the signs. So, we're we're looking at a you know late late winter project maybe in January or February if there's a thought. also we had our commission on aging meeting this afternoon and it was brought to my attention that the project for getting the stove up and and ready for use which requires a hood and a vent and a fire suppression system in the kitchen. that was a project that had been approved to be done it with this this year's 25 to$26 in the budget. and CIP had definitely had it on their project is this is something that should be done this year. and we just don't know what's happened with that project. It was something that Eric Anderson was working on and looking into getting prices, things like that for the stuff that needed to be done and we just don't want it to get lost with
having Eric leave. so anyway, we just I just wanted to point out that it's important to have a working stove in the Andover Community and Senior Center so that we can do a lot more things and maybe get more for rentals, etc. But I just wanted to to point that out. that's it. Thanks.
Okay. the phone number that ended in 3815. I know you're off mute now. So
hi, this is Leanne Hutchinson. nothing at this time. I don't envy you trying to get through everything on your agenda in an hour and a half. So I'm just here to listen now. Thanks.
All right. a Galaxy S25 Plus.
Hi, it's Chris in the finance office. I'm just here to help out and answer any questions if I if you need me to.
Okay. test grass.
Hi. The only thing that I have is a few parts that were addressed to the board of selectman. So, I'm not sure if I do I read those. we did have a couple suggestions that I wanted you to hear, but I can just forward those to you. Whatever you'd like. be better if you forwarded those to to Jim and we sat there and looked at them offline.
Okay, sounds great.
Okay. Diane Grer,
thank you. You know, I'm technology impaired here. nothing really important. just again, thank everybody for all that they do and I'm as always very impressed with the administrator's report. very lengthy and I see you do have a long agenda and there's lots of stuff on there. I was delighted to see the plan of development from the planning and zoning very long, very comprehensive, very professional very happy to see it and thank you guys and Jed Larson for heading that piece up. So thank you all very much. Good luck tonight. All right.
I did call on Bill Penn, right? I'm trying to go through the list.
Yes,
you did. Thank you. I was good.
Yeah. Joanne Heber,
hello. Just here to listen. Thank you.
Kimberly Persong.
All set. Thank you.
And Doris Maldonado. Good evening and happy new year. I'm happy to announce to the the board of selectmen and those who are not aware that I've been contracted by the office of early childhood local governance partners as Andover's inaugural parent ambassador of the early roots cor collaborative between Andover Hebrin and Lebanon. and this work is supported under Connecticut statute 105500 and it's administered by East Connecticut Eastern Connecticut University. So my role will be on behalf of Andover families to Andover families with young children. So 0 to five that share we're sharing our experiences and to help strengthen and the connections between our residents the early childhood resources designed by and to support them while identifying local statewide and national resources for our children with all abilities and backgrounds. And through our connection with the National Early Childhood Collaboration, we're also bringing national best practices in our small rural communities. I look forward to continuing this work so that Andover's young children and families feel supported and able to
thrive. And I hope to look I look forward to working with you all. And thank you for your service and time. If anyone would like to contact me, I am open and will be providing and have provided monthly cafes at the library and hope to open more up for for residents. Thank you everyone.
All right, thank you. Did I miss anyone?
Okay, let's move on to item three. additions and changes to the agenda. Does anyone have any additions or changes that they'd like to make? I would like to make one change. I would like to add an executive session on to our executive section related to our union uhou. And I'd actually like to push item 8K to the bottom so that we could have our executive session and then come out and talk. Anybody have a problem with that?
No.
Okay. Does someone want to second that so we can vote on them?
Second it. Jeff
Scott has seconded it. So I'll sit there and I'll go through anybody else before we vote? No. All right. An creme
Carol Lee.
Hi.
Jeff Murray.
Hi.
Scott Person.
Jeff Magcguire. I So five nothing. okay. So we're going to move on to item four, board and commission presentations. Jim, do we have any board and commissions presentations?
No.
Okay. item five, appointments. 5A is the library board of directors. In our packet, the board of directors of the library wants to inform us of their board that they nominated. So we'll read them. Kathleen D. Roger's chairperson, Linda Fish, Lisa Curts, Sharon Shvenko, Brandy Salowski, first alternate Jeffrey Ballard, second alternate Doris Maldonado Mendes, and the library director is Amy Orm Ormalowski. anybody have anything that they'd like to add to that just other than thanking the library board for all their hard work and everything they've done for the years? I don't think there's necessary for us to ratify that unless somebody believes we should Okay. item six, resignations. Jim, do we have any resignations?
No.
All right. That's a good month. item seven, town administrators report. So Jim, if you can
Sure.
Let's do it. and a lot of you are aware of this just based on where you sit in conversations between each other on job postings and job hirings. interviews for the assistant to the assessor were conducted and later on on the agenda you will have the appointment of the recommended candidate before you tonight. So, remember, you know, there were three, job openings and I think two of them are on the agenda for approval tonight. town administrator search committee met last week, to narrow down the field. We did have a large group. It was over 20 resumes and applications we received. The committee selected, it's actually five candidates, one dropped out. And on Thursday night, they will start the first round of interviews with that group of candidates. veterans field grant. The items requested by DEC, which was a resolution you passed last month, the budget and the project narrative were
submitted. We're awaiting a letter of intent and a financial assistance agreement from them. This is on the $250,000 legislative u appropriation grant. It's not the $500,000 steep grant. And this is the one that we're a little timesensitive on. We have to have it done by the end of by the end of June. so little adjustment to the second paragraph there. I did get an email from the vendor on the playground. If you remember back in back in November, right before Thanksgiving, we had asked to approve a purchase order in the amount of about $25,000 so we can lock in prices for 2025 because they were going to go up significantly on something like December 5th, I think. And so we did that and then we did a subsequent PO for the balance of that project again to lock in the prices. Well, the vendor has completed the playground. in other words, they've given us our the items we requested in the colors we wanted in the style we requested and a number of other items. And the vendor therefore, you know, it's been probably six or seven weeks since that PO was issued. the vendor is not requesting full payment. We thought we were going to be able to defer this payment, but they are requesting about half about $101,000. Now, the the hope is that with the submission to DEC, we get the letter of intent fairly quickly, maybe later this week. I have a call into them to
discuss if we could expedite it and we can put in for the reimbursement and we can kind of dovetail the two together. But just to warn you folks, there is a possibility that there may be a a gap between the outlay and the reimbursement for this small portion of the relatively small portion of the project. the resolution associated with the street grant was also submitted to DEC. That's the the half million dollar one for the other part of the project on the senior transportation garage. We did meet with the contractor on this. This is one of those projects through the cog this contractor and Jeff and Jeff were going to take a look at it. There was there was a bit of a discrepancy on what we needed to complete the second floor. I was working off a budget that Eric had originally produced which was not based on a a buildout. It was based on a a building that came from a kit. And so the numbers were a little skew. We thought we needed look like a lot more. And so Jeff and Jeff are going to look at it, put their especially Jeff Murray his construction cap on and we're going to look at that. Maybe the number won't be as large as we thought it was. on the senior community center. The electricians were there earlier, well last week actually, middle of last week. They installed a transfer switch which will facilitate the generator system that's going to be installed through the the Murphy Blumenthal USDA earmark grant. and just so you
know, it it that's $273,000. And in the interim when I wrote this report to when I got it, I guess it was either Thursday or Friday, USDA did send me the application and the u there's like a four-page narrative overview of the project in addition to the application. And just so you know, this goes with these legislative allocations. Whether it's the state of Connecticut or the federal government, they're a little different animal than a normal grant you apply for. Typically, you apply for a grant. These kind of earmarks or legislative appropriations are approved and then the grant process starts. So, yes, you have the money, but you got to really kind of start at step one and do
the application and all that. So, so that's true with this one, but that it's good to know that the feds have kind of moved on this and given us the the paperwork. Longill Road Bridge DOT requested with its consultant to move back the bid opening, the deadline for that to January 22nd. It was originally scheduled for January 8th. Their thoughts there were they wanted to roll in the temporary traffic traffic signalization for Hendy Road into the project. Originally, it wasn't part of the project and their thought was if it's if it becomes an add-on, it becomes an additional expense. So now the people that are bidding on it will will roll it in and you know it's it's not a very large part of the part part of the project. So there might be some cost savings there. So again, a delay on that, but that is a spring commencement on that project. Anyway, department budgets, budget season's coming. Chris is on the line, so he'll correct me, but the budgets were due January 8th. Most of them are in. Some of them needed some help. So, they were kicked back to the departments, but we're we're look pretty good on departmental budgets. And Chris and I are going to sit down and start working on I don't know what you call it here, but we would call it the book. over in Windham for you folks to to work on. State resident trooper on gun permits. I'm happy to announce we did have a lag. I don't know if you folks got any calls from residents complaining that their permit was delayed, but but they were delayed. the reason being the new trooper Anderson was not hooked into the same
system as trooper Cook and therefore he wasn't seeing the background. Checks come in. We met before the holidays. We just met after and that's been remedied and I just issued those two lagging permits the other day. Em Bank, we've had some issues with fraudulent checks. I don't know if you you've heard this being issued. They haven't they haven't been cashed, but they're checks that that are dated after Eric's departure, yet they have Eric's signature on them. So, we've cleared up all the global administrator credential issues. Chris and Kate and myself are going to be sitting with Mnt later this week and go over some fraud protection measures. And it's beyond the checks. It's kind of just a townwide training course. some of you may have gotten some calls. I'm going to take you back to the December 19th wind rainstorm, there was a bit of a communication glitch with Eversource. I can tell you the when the tree went down there on on Lake Road, Eric and his people went out
and cut the tree and put it aside and did put a ticket in with Eversource because power was out there for quite a bit. when we followed up later, I got a call from the the chief, Chief Mike, and he was saying he was getting calls and so I called Eversource and they were saying, "No, we closed that ticket. There's no we don't show any outages." Well, I said, 'Look, I'm standing here. It's pouring. You have three bucket trucks out here. So, that was resolved. And the woman who was the town liaison kind of stayed with me all weekend, gave me an update as the number of outages went down. So, we hope there's not a next time, but of course, there will be a next time. Maybe it'll be the process will be a little better. We haven't had a lot of snow. There's been some plowing, but the cold wet and kind of the frigid temperatures have required public works to go out and do some u mainly salting, some plowing. specifically that storm of December 19th, Eric Johansson, and he has a report in here too. He may touch on it. Said they're about halfway through the salt supply for the season. He has ordered more in anticipation of of need, but says that we were we are still within budget. It's not going to be an
overbudget thing. somebody mentioned the the POCD, the plan of conservation development. Taiishi has submitted that. It's in your packet. It's voluminous. I don't expect you to look at it tonight. planning and zoning is setting a public hearing on it on March 17th, but they are inviting you a month earlier at the regular PZC meeting. so you have another month or month and a week or so to review that document and give any comments or ask any questions you might want at planning zoning on February 17th. Percy Cook Trail back in December, Kevin Grindle did meet with the board of ed. they had some concerns about the location of the channel's proximity to the the school and I've put a u a memo in there regarding the board of eds or the superintendent's thoughts on that after that presentation. that's it except for I do want to add since Elaine mentioned it, the welcome sign. the welcome sign is a little bit different animal than the other welcome sign. The other welcome sign was on town property. There were some issues with the surrounding rock wall that we
had to contact the state. This sign is completely on state property and therefore we do need to go with a permit. The the state is okay with the spot. They call it a clear area. So, you know, we're not going to be able to say where it goes. They're going to tell us where it goes. I'm sure it's that's a very open spot if you know by Shotty Mill there. It's and you're you're coming eastbound. It's it's kind of wide open there. But we have to submit a permit because it's their land and but they're amendable to the project. the where will be kind of our negotiation with them. And that's about it for me. If any have any questions?
I do. on the on the sign, is that where the old dog pound is?
It's the old dog pound is not visible from u from the road. So it'll be in front of that. The old dog pound is our property. If it was a little closer, that would make easier. But
but that's that's where the sign is going.
Yes. Yes. In front in front of the
Is that Shotty Mill or is that
Shaughty?
Is it Shotty?
What did I say? I'm sorry.
No, you said Shotty Mill. I'm just
What's the other road that runs up there? I thought Shotty Mill was on the opposite side.
Wales. Okay. All right. and then the other just just because the administrators report covers A, B, C, and D. the senior transportation garage was Jeff, myself and Jim had a meeting with the contractor that was selected from EasyQ and there are some issues related to that project that we have to resolve from a design perspective and honestly if we get to the item that's later in item nine and that project review committee that would be the perfect project for them to review. so there are issues.
What's the issue Jeff?
the primary issue is that the kit that was made so you know how that is an ingground that that's a two-story building with the second floor level to the driveway in the back. the roof line for the kit was going to run basically down to the ground level in the back for the for the garage. So, even if we went with the way that it was currently designed, there would be some potential issues with that design. So we had or I had made a recommendation that we consider putting a second floor on that and the the group was like it makes sense that we just now have to figure out what the amount of money that we're we have available for that project and then how much additional money would be required for the second story and then we have to go through this the normal channels of finding the money and then sitting there and getting it approved by the town. So, that project's going to be slightly delayed in my mind. Jeff, anything from your end from what you heard there?
No, I agree with you about the roof. I mean, if somebody could just climb right up on the roof from the back, which I think is going to be problematic in the future. I just don't want to see any damage to those shingles or anything that would happen. So, if we can get that up and get, you know, and then for storage space as well, cold storage, it would be it would make sense to add on since we already have a foundation and most of the framing. it wouldn't the costwise would be much less than putting up a separate building for storage. So you got that and then as far as the veterans field issue that Jim raised Jim and I spoke about that earlier today
and I really don't that is something that we're going to work through because that vendor even if they give us a bill it's going to be a 30-day payment issue. And so what hopefully and what Jim was trying to let us all know is that he's hoping that all of the grant funding is available for that so that we don't have any I mean we could easily afford to pay it out of what we have. But it's just hope that all of it dumptales together. So you get the grant funding and then you pay that as needed. But it's also going to be delayed. It's not going to be paid immediately. Just letting everybody know that. Okay. So, anybody else have any questions for for Jim? Anything related to items one through A through D? Okay. so we're in item 8E, status of the animal control services. Jim, I know we were going out and trying to sit there and talk to some of the other towns, including Windom, as far as when our animal control services contract expires. as have we had any luck related to any of those?
No, we haven't. I haven't heard back from Mansfield and I talked to the town engineer in Windham who recommended that there the the expansion of that one is for staff. It's for the offices. He doesn't think the the pound itself is really a good fit for to take on additional services. and of course I did speak with Hebrin who's in the middle of redoing theirs, but something came up on the 16th. Nikk is holding, even though they just kind of kicked us out on on June 30th, they're holding a meeting regarding animal control. So, my hope is I'm going to attend that meeting on the 16th and there'll be a bunch of other municipalities there and I can get kind of a captive audience of of people that could be willing to do it.
Okay. If you can let us know that and then if we have to sit there and and make some adjustments to our animal control program, we should be willing to do that to sit there and get a a bare minimum of service related to that issue available for the town so that we don't fall outside of our statutory requirements. So all right anything on 8E any additional items anybody? Okay 8F status of correct and action plan for audit year ended June 30th 2024. So I'll sit there and take this one. I have been talking to Michael let me make sure I pronounce his last name correctly. Michael Van de Verter Van Van Deventor. he is our auditor. he works for Mahonian Sable and just so everybody has the background and then I'm going to share some emails with you after this meeting. Eric prepared with the treasurer a corrective action plan and right before he left he submitted it. that corrective action plan had really two issues on it. One was specifically related to the board of education and that is something that was not a problem. and the other one was an issue that is really a town issue. And I'm going to try to explain it as clearly as I can. the town treasurer, the prior treasurer
was attempting to reconcile the expenditures for the board of education so that she could post them into the town's financial records. And she was doing this with the information that was available to her. And that information that was available to her made the project slightly difficult or not slightly difficult, impossible to do. And so the auditor basically came in and sat there and said, "You need to stop reconciling to the school on a monthly basis because you're it's causing problems within the town's books." And so the treasurer anyway the treasurer sat there and Eric were wanted more and better information so that they could actually get it done and the treasurer was doing it in such a way that it was causing problems on our books. So the auditor wanted that to stop and Eric wrote the corrective action plan up as if it was the board of education issue. And in essence, it's not necessarily a board of education issue. It's a town issue. So, I had gone back to the auditor and I sat
there and said to the auditor that I think we should change the corrective action item to a town issue and that it should be put in as the treasurer is responsible for it and the reconciliation should be done annually so that we can sit there and deal with the information. So, I do that. Then I send the information that the auditor does because the auditor after he and I spoke last week, he wrote up a corrective action plan. And because we don't have a treasurer, the auditor put Jeff Maguire's first selectman as the person responsible for the corrective action item. So, the auditor wrote that and I sent it to u the chairperson of the board of ed and to Valerie. And then Valerie came back and said that that's not how this should go. This is I didn't I didn't write it to be really honest. The auditor did and all I want to do is a corrective action plan needs to be filed. I told the auditor that we're going to file the corrective action plan that he drafted and that what we're going to do is
put the new treasur hopefully if we can appoint it today. and that is where the corrective action plan is. So it is still on hold and it is a preliminary kind of thing that you know it's about information and if information is provided timely and is accurate then you can get stuff done. If you can't get information timely and accurately it doesn't get done properly. So, and the other issue, just so you all know, well, you'll see the emails, so you can sit there and look at the emails when I sent them to you. but I had talked to Michael. Michael responded to me after the superintendent's email came back to us. he's a very easy guy to deal with. I had no problem with what he wrote. And the corrective action plan is actually the responsibility of the town and hopefully we can get it submitted next week. Any questions? Okay. item 8 G, discussion and possible action on the AS RFP for the
bathroom renovation. So, as you all know, we have a we have a current issue going out with the bathroom project at the school. there was a meeting held was it last Thursday, Jeff? When was the meeting for the building committee held?
Wasn't it Monday?
Monday the 5th. Okay, that's correct. Because I have stay That's right. I stayed till Tuesday. so Monday the 5th there was a meeting held. it was a board of education building committee that was held and that meeting well I guess I just have to sit there and go through and tell you what I believe is is happening. So right now the building committee met in June and this is the this is your meeting after that meeting Jeff Murray is that correct the only meeting?
I I think the first meeting was July 21st if I'm going back to my records. Okay. So July 21st and at that point in time including the school the understanding was that this project would be a design the project was going to have engineering drawings and then they those drawings were going to go out to bid for construction services.
Correct. And then Val had sent just a Val had sent Eric and myself a email saying Fuss and O'Neal was handling the RFP process.
They were going to solicit the bids and they sent it to Eric and myself and asked to post it on the town's website for RFPs.
Okay.
and but Eric for Eric said this is not an RFP, so I'm not going to post it on our website because there was no drawings. There was no documentation along with it. So at that time it was not posted.
So it was a sentence. But the concept was that this was supposed to be we were paying the town was paying for design services from Fuss and O'Neal and they were going to do the drawings related to the bathroom project.
Correct. And they were what I was told that at that time that Fusset O'Neal was handling the RFP process which they were going to be soliciting bids for the project.
Correct. And and and that's all in their proposal and that's in what they have been paid for currently. So
all right. So, we're we're now at a point where we're the belief was that this was going to go through an RFP and then in the summer and before their September meeting the when the superintendent announced the contractors, it had morphed from a project that was going to go to RFP to now a designed build project. Right. So, and just for everyone's reference,
well, just to clarify, Jeff, the design build can be competitively bid. That's what we did in the community. So,
well, that's what I was just going to say.
So, so, so, so the thing was there, there had to be a bid process. You select a contractor, a general contractor, and then they would oversee the build based on the construction drawings.
Okay. So, and just so everybody, that's really where I was going to go is is we put out the community center to a designed build project. Like it was quoted and it was bid as a design build. Correct. I mean, because Scott, you and Jeff Murray were on that committee.
Yep.
Right.
So, yeah, we we we put out our RFP and we we I don't remember how many bids we had. It was at least over half dozen.
Yeah, it was seven, I think. And then we we rounded it down to three contractors based on their qualifications.
Okay. And just so everybody understands that process, if I remember, Jeff, Adrien Mandeville drew preliminary drawings and those preliminary drawings were given to the to the contractors and then the contractors finalized the design.
Correct.
The contractor
once the contractor was selected, they finalized but that was based on a competitive RFP bidding process.
Right.
Okay. All those contractors brought back bids.
Okay. So, we are now at a meeting of the building committee that has been appointed by the board of education and we're at a point where their their attempt is to move this project which this project is going to cost somewhere about $450,000 of taxpayer money. So, let's get that right because the community center was done with grant funding. And since I've been on the board of selectmen, we've never spent that much money on a on a project with taxpayer dollars other than the and it's not taxpayer dollars. We we did the roof project right when I got on the board of Selectmen and that roof project was $400 and some odd thousands and 50% of it was paid for with state funding.
Correct, Jeff? 500,000 because you have to hold 45,000 back for contingency.
Okay? And
and you're always going to, it doesn't matter what contract you have, you're going to find there's going to be issues and change orders and it's usually on a magnitude of 10%. And that's what we found out with the community center and other projects we've had.
All right. And Carol, I just because you have the history of the community, I want to sit there and understand, do you remember any other projects that we've done within the town with tax dollars that have been this significant?
I think it was just maybe an the addition to the school.
Okay.
When we did the library and the computer room.
Okay. So,
and and that one
I have something to put in there, too, though.
You say it's tax dollars and not grant money.
But the reason they've got this money that they put into the capital fund is that they got grant money for other things within the school and then they had money left over. So, it really is still grant money that they had gotten. So, it's not directly tax dollars. And the other thing is that you just mentioned a few minutes ago that the senior transportation garage that contractor was just selected from the ECQ. It wasn't done with the RFPs, that kind of thing either. So it's not always done that way. I'm sure that's just as expensive, if not more than these.
EasyQ is a state-run program. Yeah,
it's it's a
this is going through Fuss and O'Neal and they have selected the people.
It's okay. So, I'm just going to I'm just going to sit there and tell you that that that the information that I heard at the meeting from the building committee was that they were going to go out and try to find competitive quotes by sending the chairperson of the board of education out and well, not out. She's she's communicating with two construction companies that she met at the board of education state convention and she's going to try to get quotes. Is that what you heard, Ann?
It is.
That is what you heard.
And I've also requested to be at that walkth through.
Yeah. I'm telling you, I don't feel real comfortable with that.
That's why I wanted to go because I don't even know if these contractors are qualified.
It's not even Have they been qualified and vetted? Jeeoff, do you know?
No, not to my What I asked, somebody asked Caitlin, I think, at the board of education meetings like, "Where are you finding these contractors?" He said, "Well, they were business cards from two vendors that had tables set up at the Cape Convention." And that was her response.
There yes,
but we don't know. We don't we don't so so when we have an RFP process and when I was on the committee for the community center when these RFPs were submitted these contractors provided a booklet and a huge description of what their capabilities were current projects and past projects they have completed. So, as a committee, we were able to reach out to some of these towns and customers, past customers of these of these firms, and we asked them if they were happy with their performance.
with this situation, you don't know. You really don't know if they're qualified or you have no way to vet them. that was that was one way we were able to vet contractors and dismiss some of them because we didn't feel they were a good fit or they just their performance was not at a level that we would expect. Every contractor brought back at least a 25page pamphlet with all their accomplishments, their insurance, everything that they were involved with with the number for the project.
Well, I I just I I am extremely I mean, listen, we have to work better together. There is no doubt that we have to work better together with the school. We have to work better together with the board of finance. We have to work better together. But this project is is not going to end up in the best interests of the community. And it's going to be in violation of the board of education procedures. It's going to be in violation of of town purchasing procedures. And and we all have to remember and I know Ann will not it's not a board of education building. It is a town property flat out.
The board of education is in charge of that. And they
board of education is is a is an entity within they don't own any personal property. They don't do any taxation. We have to work with them. But you have to know and we'll I'll agree to disagree. I'll agree to disagree. It is a town property. the town owns the building. And when you do these capital projects, the town has to be included in the project. And I know I heard stuff related to the the roof project, but I remember coming in and Carol, I remember Adrian working on that roof as well. You know, he was on that committee at that point in time. So, which goes into what what we need to do. We need to ask again and we need to ask as a board of
selectmen, as a group that that we work together just like we did when we did the solar project. We we we forced ourselves into that equation. We shouldn't have had to. We should never have to. This is really, you know, it's it's disheartening to me that we have to try to keep doing this, that we have to keep forcing ourselves into the situation when we should be working together and we should work as nicely as we possibly can for the best interest of the community because this is about the best interest of the community and about the community understanding that we're protecting their tax dollars. So
Jeff, my my my biggest concern is it's not the BOE. I mean, they do have policies and and and when I asked the superintendent and the board education chairman about these policies and why they weren't following them, I had they just said they chose not to. And I asked, "Well, where does it say you can not follow your policies?" And I never got a response at that meeting, which concerned me. And what concerns me is that when we sat on that building committee for the community center as a committee, we solicited bids and we reviewed those bids. And I'm concerned that this committee for this bathroom never received competitive bids and we were never able to evaluate them and select a contractor. This has all been, you know, they went to I went to Fuss and O'Neal. Fuss and O'Neal never had a competitive bidding process for these subcontractors. They just selected people that they've worked with in the past. Now, is that good for Fuss and O'Neal? Yes. Is it good for the town? No. So, we need to make sure that we're doing the best thing for the tax dollars. And I was trying to explain that in the meeting, but I wasn't getting the answers that I was looking for. So, you know, I think a change of course is probably going to be needed at some point here. but I mean I'm I'm frustrated because it's just I've asked I I I was under the impression in in July and August that there was going to be competitive bids coming back from Fuss and O'Neal and then when I told there was no bidding, you know, they
just basically selected contractors, I was very disappointed.
Can I just ask a question though? I've been trying to look up with the Easy IQC and it Prague is the one who oversees that and basically they have pre-bid contracts. Correct.
Okay. And then the design build is what we did for the community center. Correct.
So, we hired someone and let's say it wasn't a fuss and O'Neal company, but we hired a company who then took bids. They acted as contractor and subcontracted out the different things that we needed in the community center. Correct.
Are you referencing back to Easy IQ? Well, I'm I'm just asking during the design build, is that the process? So, the
what the design build and and Jeff and and Scott, correct me if I'm wrong. In the design build, what they did, Carol, was they laid out a preliminary very rough sketch of what they would what they want they the building was going to end up like and then they they put that out there and then people bid on the the basics of the design and they they then needed to finish the design to bring it to construction.
Correct. We had we had actually Ed Sri went out and did some survey work and and basically set pins for the footprint of the building. we had a preliminary drawings. We had a square footage, number of stories, type of siding, type of roof, basically a general specification with the way we wanted this building to look and they came back to us with prop we got back proposals.
Okay. And then the
complete proposals for a complete building withdrawing stuff the whole thing.
So the company that was selected, they were the ones that hired the
subcontractors. Correct.
Numbers. Every one of them numbers
for from their own contractors for a complete building. Everyone went through the whole process. And and the whole thing is you don't usually, you know, you don't have to select the cheapest contractor. You have to say the best suitable contractor, which is the one you believe is going to do the best work and do the best value for your money.
What the school has done when they picked Fuss and O'Neal because that contractor is works with schools a lot, which is different from other general contractors. And
I I understand that, Ann. But what they should have done is they should have reached out to three or four electrical firms and got the best pricing. What they did is they just reached out to people they were familiar with and got quotes, which that is if we're talking about our taxpayer dollars, that is not
O'Neal did that.
FA O'Neal did not solicit competitive bids, which I was told otherwise. See, when you read I I could send you emails. I have emails from the superintendent and the board of education chair saying there was fuss and O'Neal was doing the RFP process. I asked probably two weeks ago can you at that me for the Monday meeting I said can you please include these competitive quotes that Fussen O'Neal did during the RFP process. The superintendent responded to me there was no competitive bidding on this pro on this project.
And you and and listen this
and that that's that's I have the I think you were CCed on I think the whole board was CCD on that email. This this is this is if I can ex I I'm going to give you my take and you guys can tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm just telling you from the documentation I've seen the committee and the board of education were moving this project forward as they were going to get an engineered drawing of this project. So when it first started out was I'm gonna get Fuss and O'Neal to do the drawings and the design work on the bathrooms.
Correct.
That's how it started. That's what the first contract says. That's what the first proposal says is you know it goes through the design work. It goes through you know the basic information the design work. It goes through the bidding process and it goes through construction administration. That was the first proposal. So in essence, we were going to use Fuss and O'Neal as the engineering design team and they were going to assist the group and send it out for bidding. But
hat's what I was told. That's what the committee was told.
We pivoted. The board of education pivoted. the superintendent pivoted and then started talking about in August and September that this was a designed build project, which means that Fussen O'Neal was going to get paid for the design work and then be the general contractor on the project.
Right. Yes.
I'm just telling you there's there's there's a pivot that happened in the summer and there's a new proposal out there that is a Fen O'Neal design build proposal for $390,000 and we have a contract for a proposal for design services for $48,000 that we're still paying. So now everyone's you're upset at me because I won't pay I won't release and I'm be really honest and if the board wants to release that money you guys can vote to release the money. I'm not releasing the money to Fuss and O'Neal because we have potentially two different proposals. We have one proposal that's this. I'm going to do all your design work. I'm going to put this out to bid. I'm going to let you see the bids and then you're going to select the contractors that that are the right contractors for this job. Now, I have this whole other proposal
that's over here and it says it's a design build proposal. And I'm like, well, where's the money that we've spent for the bidding services of $3,900 and why are we paying them construction services money some $11,000? like who is approving this? So, what happened was I was in for signing checks and I saw this and I'm like I told Jim and I told the treasurer and I told you we can't send any more checks to Fuss and O'Neal until we as a community come together and understand really what we're doing. And I'm just sorry this project is not managed in an effective way for the community and I I we need to talk about
it and we need to decide what we're doing about it because it is a townowned building. We have to work with the board of education. There's no doubt about that. Has to be a a collaborative effort. If it's not collaborative, this doesn't work. But right now, I just I'm I am extremely concerned. I'm I'm I'm hesitant that we're we're not managing town resources properly. So,
I just want to see I just want to see a fair and open bidding process. That's all I want to see. I want to make sure that this stuff is competitively bid. And another another issue is that the superintendent told me multiple times that we don't have people on these boards that are capable of of of doing these type of services. And this was something that I spoke to Jeff Magcguire about probably about six months ago is putting together a committee of professionals that live in town that want to serve on a committee to review these type of projects. So, what I did is I've reached out to people that have general contractors in town, people that own their own contracting companies, the people that are more than qualified to do these reviews. And I've reached out to some electricians, some plumbers, general contractors, excellent civil engineer, and just to see if they would be willing and they're and they're telling me yes, wholeheartedly, yes, I will help serve and help and help you with these projects. So, we do have a pool of resources that will help out just like we did with the building committee. because these these people want to make sure that these projects are successful. And, you know, I would sit on that
committee as well. I would even chair it and let and let the and let these people weigh in on these drawings because if you're an electrician, let me just say when you're looking at these drawings, an electrician, if you look like you have to do this job, you're going to look at those drawings from the perspective of an electrician. same as a plumber, same as a civil engineer. And they're going to make comments and they're going to make notes of things that are missing. And I and I'm and I'm telling the board, I'm telling the public here, you need to make sure you dot your eyes and cross your tees because if you don't and you start missing things, you're going to start getting change orders. And those change orders will add up. So, you need to make sure that these drawings, I mean, they're not going to be perfect. That's why I'm saying you need at least a 10% contingency, but you need to make sure you capture most of these errors early on and you get them corrected before this goes out to bid. And I'm saying they need to be 90 to 95% complete and accurate.
So, did Fuss and O'Neal do that?
Well, that was part of my concern at the Monday's meeting with the board ed. I mean, when I when we first met in July, I noticed a bunch of things like some door interferences and some lighting that was that was not placed in the correct locations. And I asked for those to be changed. And I also asked for to look into some of these water valves and things that control the faucets to see if we could do like a hybrid thing that was a manual with a you know, an automatic switching that it's like a let's just say a a bathroom a toilet or something that you know that would have a manual flush handle. But if somebody went and used that that toilet or that urinal and they don't flush it after a minute, it would automatically flush just because I I talked to a bunch of actually I talked to a bunch of elementary school students just to see how they thought about the bathrooms and they a lot of them said they don't use them because a lot of the kids don't flush. They just make a mess out of them. So I was trying to do some things to to to improve the design, make it a little bit better. But when we got to that Monday meeting, I looked at the drawings that were updated and none of those changes were even on there. So, I was I kind of felt like my time was wasted at that July meeting because none
of my none of my none of the changes were even implemented on those drawings.
Well, that goes into my whole thing about having stamp drawings. Those drawings that we saw at that meeting were dated June 28th.
Well, I had ones that said September on them, the ones I was looking at.
So, that's why that was way after the meeting that that we had. So I was I was I was concerned that those changes weren't implemented.
So
some of the most important stuff of that project are the actual drainage, the pipes, the drainage which is causing the problems. None of that is even on that those prints. The grades, the grades to the septic to the fields, none of the grades, nothing is there. That whole piping system is going to have to be taken apart very carefully. The problem is start when you start saw cutting and jackhammering that cast iron, it's it's going to shatter and it has to be carefully done. And it should also it should also be in the quote. It also should be in the quote if we find extra damage down the road like how much per foot it's going to cost to excavate and repair
because we don't know
because you I mean the the the way this project is set right now it's the equivalent of you just calling up a roofer out of the river east news bulletin and saying come put a roof on my house and then just you know you're not I mean anybody that is going to get a roof put on their house even on this meeting right now wouldn't you call two or three contractors and get some competitive quotes, but we haven't done that in this with this this project. We've just gone out to one engineering firm and we've gotten one quote with no competitive bidding. So, we could be in for a surprise. I mean, they're telling us this amount of money, but if they find things in the floor and damage and extra work, I mean, this could this could steamroll into hundred thousands of thousands of dollars more. So, it's I'm really concerned. There needs to be a lot of information about
that piping on those prints and how they're going to do it, what stages they're going to do it, and that should be all listed on on a print like that, especially for this.
Well,
so there are no updated plans is what you're telling me. Bus O'Neal didn't give us anything updated, give the school anything updated. Well, we were spo we were supposed to have a meeting and I sent I tried in September, August and I tried sending out emails to the to the building to this to the bathroom committee saying, you know, we need to have the second meeting and I tried and I I put out multiple dates and and the the chairman just says I think it was too premature to do this because we don't have our drawings back yet. you know, I and I sent texts to her on the the board ad chairman on in August saying that, you know, we need this bid process. We have to follow a bid process on this and we have to get these drawings approved.
So, the new drawings actually could be available. They It was just too early at that point in time.
I I got mixed I got mixed signals, Carol. I mean, I I asked I asked the the the the superintendent a couple times for the drawings, and she said she had them, but the board of ed had to vote to release them. And I said, "Well, that seems silly because I'm on the bathroom committee. Why shouldn't I be able to see the drawings?" And they weren't released to me until about a month ago.
Okay. Because Fuss and O'Neal could have in there with the price and everything anticipating that that iron pipe that's under the concrete is going to be damaged when they start removing. Right.
But there's no there's no there's no statement of work in there like what they're responsible for and what the town would be responsible for if they find more damage. and Carol it opens up a can of worms because if you if you find damage down the pipeline like I said if you jackhammer and it gets damaged and we have to excavate more I mean you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars more and I don't even know to this day what the end point of is of where the excavation and this the the the point of construction actually starts
but if it is cast iron pipe there's a really good chance that most of it will have to be replaced because that's
correct
pretty old could be damaged. And
I don't know, I was just looking up it looks like Fuss and O'Neal have done quite a bit of work even for the state. So I don't know. I mean
I don't I don't think I don't think it's
it has nothing to do with qualifications. It has to be doing.
It's not where It's not where anyone I think is saying that they have an issue with Fuss and O'Neal or that Fuss and O'Neal can't get to a good plan. My issue is that it's just never gone out to competitive bid and it's and and the document the plan and and I'm not a I mean I'm an accountant. I'm not a construction person. So, I'm not going to sit there and tell you I read the plans and understand exactly what they're doing. But I just keep asking the same things. Is it a stamped plan? And then if it's a stamped plan, people like Jeff Murray or Eric Sanderson or Ed Serizley or Adrien Mandeville need to get in a room and look at the plans for the benefit of the community to say they have everything captured on the plan. And then when you have everything captured on the plan, you you sit there and then go to bid.
Yeah. And the and the and the board of ed actually has a bidding procedure. They actually, you know, they have a they said there's a list in the office of qualified contractors that they're supposed to go off of. There's supposed to be sealed bids in envelopes that are received at the school and they are open and public. That is their policy and that and that and that mirrors our our RFP policy. And I don't care which one we use. I just want to make sure we have sealed bids and they're open and public just like all of our other projects. I mean, the only the only thing, Carol, that I know that we've gone sole source and we've never competitively bid is the air packs for the fire department. That's the only thing that I can remember that we actually went out and just said, "Okay, we're going to buy these." Because there's a com and there's a justification for that because all the other all the other fire departments in the area use the same air packs. So, they they had a justification and we thought that was reasonable. But that's the only time I remember that we've never competitively bid a product or a service.
Okay. So again, the design build, even though we're hiring the head contractor, we see all of the subcontractor bids, too. In that RFP process, is that
Well, we we would see we would get quotes from multiple general contractors.
So it would be so fuss and O'Neal wanted to be the GC. they wanted to go out and hire the plumbers, the electricians, this, you know, all the the the tilers, all the trades that they need, that would be rolled up by Fuss and O'Neal and they would provide a bid. Another contractor, let's just say the same contract did the community center wanted to bid on it. They would roll up all their trades and they would provide a bid. So, we would review those bids from these general contractors and then and then select our contractor based on the bids, their expertise, and the projects that they've done. So, we may we may just select one that might be the second lowest bidder because they've done a lot of bathroom work in schools and they're experts at it. So, and they may be experts in remediating cast iron pipe. So, those are certain things that would be in that bid package that we would look at.
Okay. But we wouldn't see each of the independent subcontractor bids that Fuss and O'Neal received if they were the selected GC. Correct.
Yeah. which I didn't have a I didn't have a problem with them being the GC, but I just wanted to make sure that these subcontractors that they bid were competitively bid that we had three electric electrical outfits bidding on it, three tiling contractors, three plumbers, just to make sure that the town is getting the best value for their tax dollars because we don't know if the people they selected is actually they they're they're probably more than qualified, but are they are they the lowest price? They could be $50,000 higher than competitive contractors.
And I understand that, but Buzzen O'Neal is probably picking contractors that they've worked with before. Correct. And they know they do a good job.
Is that correct?
Okay.
That does not follow that does not follow our purchasing policy in town to do our That does not follow the RFP process of the school or the town. what we've done compet what we've done in the past
hen we just need to bring this to the BOE to the board of ed instead of us discussing it tonight bring it to the board of ed
and we have we have
and listening issue from our standpoint in my standpoint is if we don't discuss it here
we don't get to discuss it in
I requested that they have a tri board meeting with the board of education the board of finance and the board of selectmen and that was rejected in. So we're having this discussion here so that we can the the people in the community can understand that we're attempting to do our job
and I'm frustr I'm frustrated because
we do our job but the board of ed is the ones doing the job and I know Jeff that you go to the board of ed meetings and talk as the exeicio member. So, you can do that and they will talk to you there. Can I just ask a question? I've tried locating our RFP process. Can you tell me where that's right? I know we have a purchasing process in the charter. I've looked at that, but can you tell me where our written RFP process is?
I can't tell you that, but I can tell you from past past processes that we have always done an RFP process for any major capital project.
The only thing I'd like to say is that I think that we as a board if we do not have a written RFP process, we need to work together.
I agree.
Make one because then everyone has to be on that same page with us. We can't say past practice is this or past practice is that.
Correct. But yeah, if we go to the board of education policies, the board of education has a policy for an RFP process.
And is it a written policy that
Yes, it is. It is a written policy that say that they are supposed to select they supposed to
written policy. Carol sealed bids.
Where can I find that?
I can find it for you in just a second.
Okay. Thank you. yeah, that's I mean that's pretty much what I'm say. It's just, you know, we just need to follow a competitive bidding process.
And
I I don't care if the school does it. I don't care if the school does it or if the town does it. I don't care. We just need to do it. And I've been frustrated because I've tried to contact the board of ed chairman and I've contacted the superintendent and I've, you know, I've tried to schedule the second meeting to go over these drawings and we had this meeting Monday, last Monday before we even had our committee meeting. Like we're not, our business is not done even with going through the
3323. Are you is that the answer to me, Scott?
That's that's one of them. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you.
There is another one, but I mean I'm kind of willing to overlook that one, but it says that the board of education is tasked to spend their budgeted budgeted amounts. What'sever is in their budget for their that year is what they're tasked to spend. And anything outside of that is is not their responsibility. It says it right in the policy. So something that's in their capital reserves, you're saying is not
hat's that's a town owned account and it's it's controlled by the board of finance, but it says that they are not in control of that account. But I don't care at this point. All I want is competitive bidding process. That's all I want. That's all I like to see. And I think everybody in town would agree to that.
Yeah.
Okay. So certainly would. Can we ask to see that? I asked I asked them I asked the superintendent and the board of ed chair at Monday's meeting why they were not following their policy and they said 'Oh we've just we've decided we're not doing that and I said 'well what tell what show me where it says in your policy manual that you don't have to follow your policy Carol
I didn't get I didn't get an answer the the direction that is is heading is that on and the board of ed next board of education meeting they're going to vote to move to a design to build program because they haven't voted on this. This is all this is this is where this whole thing goes off the rails for me is it was definitely set up in the first proposal that has been approved because I asked who approved and who signed the first proposal. So the first proposal I don't have a signed contract yet. The treasurer's office doesn't have a signed contract yet. So Robert England was asking for a signed contract. So, we don't have the first signed proposal and they're now moving before they have the their own committee all in agreement that everything is is is accurate. They're moving to a design to build program with with Fuss O'Neal, which in essence, Carol, cuts out all of the bidding process. So that's what's up for Wednesday is Wednesday's meeting at the board of
education will be a vote on a design to build program for the bathroom.
Okay. So you said that there was a $48,000 check to Fuss and O'Neal that you stopped
No being released, right?
No, there's a $48,000 contract
of that contract which has four phases. It has the first phase is basically analysis. The second phase is design. The the third phase is bidding and the fourth phase is construction management. The whole contract for that was $48,000 approved by the board of education, approved by the board of finance. $42,000 of that has been paid. So we're into stage four, which is construction management. It's only $5,000 that I'm holding, Darl. Like that I am that I am personally sitting there saying we shouldn't pay that.
And the other to be to be really honest, they sat there and said that they might get an $11,000 credit if they move to the design to build for the construction services. I mean, it's it's
the other policy is 3320.
It's that talks about purchase orders. And I can read this really quick. says, "The superintendent of schools shall develop and administer the purchasing program of the school district with such activities as ordering, verifying receipt of orders and distribution of materials received. The superintendent is authorized to issue purchase orders upon the receipt of requisitions where quotes or formal bids are not required. And then when purchase orders are for items included in the budget and when sufficient funds are available for the particular budget account. When purchase orders are for items not included in the budget or for items which would exceed the amount within a budget account, they may be only made with the approval of the superintendent of schools who in turn is limited by the provisions of the board policy. Over expenditures of specific budget accounts will be shown in the monthly financial statement. So this the purchase order system must be filed as established with exceptions to be made only by the approval of the board of education. And the final line is purchases or contracts made outside of the approved purchasing system shall not be the responsibility of the board of education. That is right in their PO policy.
Be clear.
Okay. But Jeff, I think you said that the board of ed and board of finance both approved this
the $48,000 original contract.
They both approved.
Approved it. Oops.
So, just so you understand what is happening, the last $5,000 on that contract, there is a one check for like $2,700 that is being held. I mean, because Carol, I can't understand as an accountant, right? just as my accounting world. Why would I ever have approved those items on that on those invoices if I was going to change the proposed terms of my contract? So, so there's a check. There's only $5,000. This is not like it's the whole entire amount. This is $5,000 that's in section four of the contract. And I think I've shared it all with everybody, didn't I?
So you're saying change to a design build now at this point in time is what you're saying.
Correct. They
passed everything, Carol. That's it's it's passed all the processes. We're up to building now.
We're up to the construction management part.
Construction management.
I mean, I think at this I mean, at this point, I just want to see this project done. And I think it can get done this summer if we start now. We put an RFP and like I I feel very strongly that an RFP should go out. It would take 45 days. We would select a contractor. The the committee, the bathroom committee would select the contractor reference, I mean recommend that contractor to the to the boards, the board of finance and the board of education for approval and then get those approvals at that time. We have approximately six months right now before that school is closed and we're
able to do construction. So, we have plenty of time right now. But I just don't want this to slip any further because we sat around the summer and we did nothing about this,
right?
So, we need to move in the right direction and I think we just need to change our tactics or do something different because what we're doing now is just not working.
No, that's been going on since the middle of the summer in 24.
Actually, the Yes, the middle of the summer of 24. I was trying to think of the timeline, Scott, and you you were right.
I'm I I myself think that we the town needs to pivot myself.
Okay. So, we had our discussion on this. Is there any action that we want to take related to this?
Yeah. I think
the town building, Jeff, I believe that the town needs to pivot now and and do something about this this issue.
It's not being handled correctly.
So, and and just because I was having problems with the dates, the original contract was July 17th, 2024.
Yeah. I mean, I think we need to put this building committee together. I think what we should do and I think this is this is and I'm not this is what the board of education should do at their next meeting is let's get this out for RFP. I'm told there is an RFP written for this project. We have let's get together. Let's get these drawings approved. Let's get this out on the website for RFP. I don't care if the school does it or if we do it. Get these sealed bidins bids in here and let's select the contractor and let's start going on this. This has been way too long. And I don't I I'm not saying anything bad about the board of education. I mean, this is not in their wheelhouse. That's why I'm saying we need to put the right people on this and and oversee this project to make sure that this gets done. I've already I talked to an electrician. And I know Jeff Murray has also talked to some people.
I just wanted to see if it was doable. I mean, more people are more than willing to serve on this committee.
I mean, it's their town. It's their town. Their kids go to this town. They want to make sure that this bathroom is done.
I mean, we have people that have vested interest in making sure this project is finished. One thing nobody's taking into consideration right now, the the important pro part of this whole thing is the drainage to the septic system. That's what the problem is. The bathrooms are something that's going to be done at the same time if they get done at the same time. But the drainage has to be changed. That's that's what the the piping is really the issue here. So, just to remind you so that you guys can all go to your reference, I sent the documents out to everybody on 1229. So I sent it to I requested a tri board
meeting on the 29th and in that you'll have
the first Fuss and O'Neal proposal, the second Fuss and O'Neal proposal, the construction drawings and information from the finance department about payments. So anyway, do we do we what what are we going to do? Are we going to do anything as a board to sit there and direct this in a more positive manner or are we going to try to sit there and give it one more college try with the board of education and sit there and see if we can move forward in the proper direction?
What's the board
in that last meeting, Jeff? I lost hope that anything good is coming out of that meeting with the board of education. I heard nothing there that was any good. that fuss and O'Neal guy. my grandson could do a better job than that guy did.
Oh,
horrible.
I just think we need to hit the We just need to go on a tactical pause on this project.
Something's got to happen different.
Okay. I think I think we need to have this we need to have this final meeting with this with the committee and then get these drawings finalized and and bring them if we're talking tonight and we're going to appoint people to this building committee next month. I'm thinking we that would be our first order of business and we just get the we make sure that these drawings are 100%. We get them out to RFP no later than the end of February. They come in, we select the contractor and you're going to be ready to go by June. I
don't think the prints are accurate, Jeff. Well, that's why I want to have them reviewed by the committee. I mean, I'm not a plumbing expert. I'm not I'm I mean, I'm electrical engineer, but I I mean, you need a trades person to really look at those drawings to really see how and make sure all the notes are on that drawing. Make sure the notes are there. Make sure all the specs are there. because
there's no elevations to the fields. None. There's no
civil have a civil engineer take. We have a civil engineer.
There's no elevations to all the pipes inside the building. That's that's all key to this.
And this is not anything against the board education. We're this is a this is a help. This is to help. This is to help
a health issue right now.
Well, no help. I want to help I want to help move this along and get this done. I think the board of education does, but we have people that are willing to help. So, let's let's engage them. Let's get them on this. Let's just get let's get them involved.
Okay. So, then is the board just wanting to Are we going to do anything or not?
Like I said, I think we need to do a tactical pause on this till we
Okay, so how does that tactical pause work? I mean,
I call it tactical pause because we just need we need just everybody just needs to put their pens down and, you know, tools down and just take a look at this thing because I, like I said, I don't think those drawings are complete. I think there's still things missing in them that we need to we need to address.
Okay. So,
I I believe Jeff that we should get up together that committee that Jeff Murray and I was were talking about.
We could do a lot of this. We could do a lot of this. I mean, even now I could do this via email. We could send the drawings to all these to these individuals and we can get we can get feedback
and then we can all that feedback could get rolled up by the bathroom committee and we can, you know, move forward. And then in the meantime, we start this RFP process and we make sure that we have a good price on this project. Okay. Which I hate to say it, but you know, it's just I I it's more work for us, but I really didn't want to get involved, but I think we have to at this point.
Yeah.
Do you experience
I mean, listen, I you know, information is not a very good is not very easy to come by. Do you have the most recent drawings in a PDF?
I do, but I don't know if they've been changed since. I don't know if there's any revisions.
Okay. Yes.
So, and I was I was I I was told not to reach out to Fuss and O'Neal
even as a member of the committee. I was told to that I had to go through the the board of ed chairwoman or the superintendent. So, I can't converse with them directly.
So, let's see if we make a resolution to to request. I mean, because all we're doing is request because again, we have to work with them. It's either we put a whole pause on this. I mean, if you want to put a whole pause on it, I mean, the only pause is it's a financial pause. I mean, then it's going to be a problem. Do we have the board of finances approval on this or not? So, no, you're just going to It's really a tricky slope. It's either we all work together or we don't.
I'm offering
if we don't work together, then then it's just sitting there saying we own the building, you can't do it.
I don't want to do that. I want to work with I'm I'm offering I'm offering a hand to the to the board of education to say look we are here to help you. We're not here to impede you when we want to get this done.
So So the board of education has a meeting on Wednesday. We're going to sit there and and request that the board of education work with us to sit there and and and actually I will ask them to have another committee meeting and we should bring additional people to the committee meeting to review the documents. I'll ask for the documents to be reviewed in advance of the meeting. I would like the latest revision of those drawings and then that way those people that we put on this committee, even if we have to have a special meeting next week
to appoint these people, let's do it. I don't care. I want to get this done.
Okay?
So, if if they're willing to do that, let's do this and and let's get these drawings reviewed by our experts in town.
All right. So, I my plan is to attend that meeting. I will ask nicely that that's what happens and we will sit there and see where it goes. But eventually
if we're told and if we're told no
then I think it's in our fever that we should probably do something about it.
All right. We talked a lot about this and actually I think it's good that we actually talked about it because you know there's been very little discussion related to this out there at any given meeting that's of value and is not curtailed and it's just like I think we should still have the tri board meeting because I think the other boards you know like the board of finance has has you know we have a joint authority with them they have an authority we have an authority over the the operations of the town. They have an authority over the finances of the town and the school and the board of education has an authority over the education and the maintenance and the management of that building which I do respect an but in the end it's our building and and and it's a lot of money and if you think about it in a very simple way that bathroom project is going to cost half of the community center building. It's a lot of money.
Center isn't finished yet. So,
I I don't really care.
I know. Still still I don't care, Carol. It's 50% of what we spent to build that building. And we did it for a reason. And I love when people sit there and say, "Oh, you built this. We built that building with a million dollars because that's all we had available to us without going and taxing the residents of this town." and we're going to sit there and do in continuous improvements to that t that building and through other grant funding sources. So I think this board of f this board of selectmen and the prior board of selectmen and the prior board of selectmen before that who sat there and and had to deal with the funding and how it got done I think did a great job. I I I got to believe that the community sits there and looks at that building and goes it's a great building. Is it perfect? No.
Hey, we didn't have enough money to put in an elevator. Guess what? We couldn't have an elevator.
Yeah,
you know, live with it. That's what you got to do. That's what we had to do. We didn't finish the basement because we didn't have enough money at the time. We didn't connect it to a generator because we didn't have enough money at the time. But you know what? this board and the previous town administrator did a great job finding money and have has found other ways without taxing the residents to sit there and improve that building. And I listen to people criticize it. I listen to people criticize it because, you know, we're too close to the school or we're this or we're that or we didn't finish it. That's a bunch of hogwash. Be really honest. This board did a great job on that building and the residents of this town should be extremely happy that they have that type of building to go into and our seniors finally got
something for themselves. So,
even locating that building in there took months locating it that we had to change it around two or three different times. I went out and laid it out in different places and finally we came up with the situation that's in now. And all done by volunteers.
That's right. We have to figure out we have we have to do a better job working together and we have to do a better job understanding that we get we we have we have limitations with our professional force and our employees
and a lot of this gets done with volunteers and I just think we've got to all do a better job working together because it's really tiresome to be really honest. It's it's necessary
ju just for your information there's also a a state statute for requirements for competitive bidding for municipalities and municipal powers. So
Okay. And do you have that statute number? Because I was trying to look that up.
It's title It's title seven.
Yeah.
Chapter 98.
Okay.
Section 7-148V.
148. Okay. I that was the one I looked up.
Yep.
And that's very clear
also. And this is not us. I'm not I said we could have easily tonight probably done a memor memorandum to cease and desist or anything like that. But this is this is the board trying to work with the board of education
and we're offering to try to get this finished
and if they reject this I'm going to be very disappointed.
Yeah.
All right. I will I will ask as nicely as I can. So, and Ann, you had something you wanted to say. It looked like
just going to say that yeah, we built the basic building for the senior center for a million, but I think by the time you finish everything, including the basement, you're going to be looking at close to 2 million. So, I would think of that as the total cost. Oh, of course. But we did what we could with the money we had available at the time, which was
at that time, but that building when you're done,
which which was to get the seniors a place to to to go and they have that place right now. And eventually when we get the teen center or so, whatever we're going to do with the basement, we will do it. But and I always have a saying, if you can't afford to do it right the first time, you can't afford to do it twice. So, let's get this right. Let's get this right.
Everything that was done was done right.
Okay. All right, Carol, I apologize already. so let's move on to 8 8H discussion and possible action on the prior acting town clerk salary request. after the information that was presented to us last meeting, are do we have any more that we need to do to discuss that or are we okay to move on it and eliminate it from future agendas?
The only question I have is thatou or MOA, whatever we're titling that only addressed from July 1 to mid August. She resigned in mid August.
No, no, I know, but it didn't address salary prior to that point. it didn't because at that point in time, we were paying you to sit there and train. So, we had that cost that we were incurring in that office. And so that's what the interpretation that Eric was dealing with Britney under was that since you were in that office and you were going to stay in that office until June 30th that the majority of the additional work would happen for her at July 1st. And and Carol, honestly, my biggest problem is we've got documentation from Britney in here and she was aware of that because she had to be aware of that when that was submitted to the union. That's my biggest problem. Like we ran through all of this, but she was aware of that document.
So, are we going to is anyone going to act on this? Because let's just move this forward as if it's gonna we're gonna act on it. Let's vote on something right now and move it on or let's get it off of our agendas.
Jeeoff, last time I abstained because there was a lack of information, but I feel I I've gotten the information that I needed and I don't feel we need to act on this.
Okay. So, we can we can eliminate it from the future agendas.
And listen, I if any other members of the board want to make a motion to vote on something, I'm okay voting on something. I just don't want I'm trying to I gota we got to try to eliminate items off of our agenda stuff. So,
okay. So, if there's no motion being made, we're going to move on to item 8 I discussion and possible action on rental policy and fees for the use of the community center and senior center. So, we got a lot of information that was in the packet from other community centers and our community center. So, does anybody have any issues with the the schedule that the community center is thinking of charging?
It's cheaper than other other community centers, but I guess that's good to start out with.
Yeah, Tess Tess added that little part about having somebody there all the time. that are we just going to roll that all in as just one fee per hour?
I don't know. Tess, you can answer that.
Yeah, I'm happy to answer that. Yeah, we wanted to add that on to the additional fee. but we can break it down in the contract itself. I don't think it changes. It would just change per hour. I did speak with Kermita today and I do have some updated information. So, I'm not sure if you want that now or
Sure. Let's do it.
Yeah. So, Karma does have a an extended policy. I'm not sure if I'm using the proper terms, but they do have an extended policy called gather guard. And you can take out additional or take out if you were renting the facility, you can take out this policy through Gather Guard that would protect yourself for accidents and damage things like that. So they do have that policy that people can take out. it would depend on the type of event of how much that would be the type of event and it would be case- perase basis. It would be type of event, number of people where it was being held and if there was alcohol or not. So they do have a policy that would include if somebody was to like a bob. And I believe the wreck commission has something like that as well. They mentioned the wreck commission today. would and would you administer these policies? You would have the forms that they would fill out when they did the application to use the community center. So, they would do that at the same time.
Yeah, they would just have a link on that contract. They would have a link that they could fill out that extra insurance policy and then add it to the application when they apply. But they would be required to if they did a BOB situation, they would be required to have the insurance.
That's correct.
Okay.
Yeah. Well, and if we require them to have insurance, this would be the insurance they would go through.
Do you have an idea approximate cost?
No, they did not give me that. They said it did it did depend on the type of event. How many people we can only have 60 people sitting at tables with tables and chairs? I believe it's 128 if there's just chairs. So, we're already we can already narrow that down with how many people.
I thought that we agreed that there was no alcohol.
I don't think that we've I I'm at the understanding that we haven't we haven't agreed on that yet.
I think I read that in your documents that there was going to be no alcohol. Also,
we Yep. We I did put no alcohol in there because I think that that was I was just giving you a draft. So, Kerma today said that that is an option and so if we wanted that they could have that. They would just have to buy additional insurance coverage.
I think the town of Colchester has the person that's renting the facility initial that there's to be no alcohol. So, they're very serious about
he question. The question, Scott, you're asking it and are we as a board willing to sit there and allow residents to have alcohol in that building?
I think at this point we just do it just general use with no alcohol and then let's just revisit it because I think
we've had this discussion already, Chip.
I I think it's important that we just get this document finalized, get this, get this open so people can use it.
Yep. And and if you get a lot of people saying they want to have a wine tasting event or they want to have a Jack and Jill or something like that and they'd like to have alcohol, if you start getting a lot of people like that, then we should probably revisit it. But if the majority of people don't, then maybe we just don't even bother with it.
Yep. And we can we can add to the bottom of that policy subject to change.
yeah. So then we could be covered. So they could still use the same policy or the same application for rental. it's just we could change it at any time. We don't have to reward anything. Just
it would be the insurance. So do you want everybody to go through this one insurance through Kerma and have them add on with a gather guard?
Well, is it a million? What is it? A million. What's the the limits? A million. I I believe it's a million but I think we would have to
I mean if they have their own insurance company that they want to deal with and they want to provide a certificate of insurance that would be I think feel that would be acceptable.
Okay. And you want it at 1 million.
Yeah.
For those for those
asy not to get
hey have to provide a certain mean they can fax you a certificate of insurance you know for that date at those times and people.
Yep. So it would be either or. So either your own insurance or gather guard. Here's the link. You put that with your application.
Somebody may say I can get it cheaper somewhere else and if they want to get it and they have the coverage limits and then we're good.
Okay. Yep. Excellent. And yes, it is less expensive. Scott, you did mention that that ours is less expensive. It is less expensive than most others.
Yeah.
Well, we got it going and then maybe we can change it.
Did you get my text? Did you get my text and email today, Tess, about
I I got your email. I have the COA. meeting today. I didn't get out until after 3. I saw your message and I did leave at 4 today. Well, I wanted to leave at 4:00. I didn't leave until 4:30. So, I didn't have time to respond to you, so I do.
Yeah, I just saw So, if we're doing no alcohol, we just need to revise that section 8 because it should say, you know, it says no illegal drugs. Well, cannabis is legal. So, I don't think we want a lot of people firing up at the community center
because they'll say, "Oh, this is legal." So, you know, it didn't say in your contract it was illegal. So, I would probably
The first thing they'll say, too,
no add spell out.
No alcohol, no cannabis or illegal substances.
Very good.
And then the smoking. I know I know the building's no smoking, but they should probably say that on agreement. There's no smoking in the building. And I don't know if there's a the smoking area been
I mean I know I know a couple individuals that go outside the town hall and smoke but
I I don't know for you know I mean you're going to have people using the community center that are probably smokers and they're probably going to go where do I go light up. So
it's supposed to be the the whole property but
and where would you like that if we have to put like a cigarette butt
probably in that probably between the town hall and the community center somewhere there between. So it wouldn't be near any doors.
But I don't know if that's an issue, but I mean you're going to bring people in they're going to smoke and it I wouldn't I wouldn't want to see cigarette butts being thrown on the ground.
No, I'm agree. Or even down in the bottom where if we have summer outings
they would be down in the bottom as well. So the top one and the bottom.
We don't have a no smoking policy on town buildings, do we?
We do. Well, there's a lot of people breaking it because I see people smoking outside the town all the time
on the whole property. It's supposed to be the property.
I think it's kind of like the same thing with the dogs on the ball field, right? We can sit there and say no, but then you're you know, no dogs on the field, but where they're going to put we're going to put waste bags out there. I mean, I think it's kind of
something. Same thing.
Yeah. Same. I think it's the same. I think it's the same thing. We have two cigarette butt dispenser, you know, where you can put your cigarette butts by the community room entrance and also by the front door. They've been up since 2004.
Okay. So, we just got
to say that that's the space. You know, I would allocate an area.
Do you want two, Jeff? Would you prefer two? One on the top, one on the bottom.
Just just one. Just one.
Just tell them Tell them to go by the door at the community room. They they need to walk and get exercise anyway. They can go down and hang out with Molly
in the town hall. Go to the town hall.
Go to the town hall and
there's already one there.
There's already one there. Don't don't spend another dollar another thing to kill somebody else.
Then one one other comment I had is just when you do your walk through the search just to whoever's doing the checklist and and checking after the event, just go through and flush all the toilets because we've had issues in the town hall of people plugging them. make sure they're not clogged with somebody didn't put a diaper down it or something and it's plugged because you're going to find it the next day and then how are you going to pin that person on doing that that user. So, I would put that on your checklist just to make sure all the drains are clear.
Yep. That's a good idea.
We'll go we'll go through all of those items and yes, make everybody go down there and hang out with Wall-E because you know he needs
I didn't mention his name.
I love I love Wall-E. You can't you you're not you're not going to Yeah, we're good. are we done on this item?
Well, do we have
That's it for everything, right? Everybody's all set for Tess.
Okay, that's the end of it.
So, we going to make a motion to approve it
with the following
with the corrections that I noted
with the corrections
and I can send a draft over just to make sure.
Okay. That will be good for a test. So, she'll have this out of her hair.
Thank you.
One thing.
Okay.
All right. We're good. We're good. 8J discussion and possible.
Do we have to make a motion to approve that?
I did. I was waiting for somebody to make it, but they were saying it was all
right. Make I'll make a motion to approve the community use fee structure as presented with the change in second section 8 about illegal substances including cannabis and alcohol are not allowed including illegal drugs and and in line six for the bathrooms to to to make sure that all the the toilets flush properly and then creating a smoking area for people that smoke in Jeff
with a with a map or something showing where the smoking area is.
Okay. So seconded by Scott. Any further discussion?
All right. We're going to vote on this item. Any
es.
Yes.
Hi.
Jeff Murray. Scott Persan.
Hi.
Jeff Magguire. Five. All right. Thank you very much.
Made Tess happy tonight.
Thank you Tess.
He did very much. Thank you.
All right. 8J discussion and possible action on Hop River Homes contract. So on page 54 of our packet it shows what we sat there and passed in on September 27th of 2022. So the the contract, you know, expires in September. So we're really just trying to get ahead of this. So everybody's got to think about this. It's not something we need to vote on today to what we're doing. but previously and since I've been on this board, we've given an abatement to the Hop River Homes and it always had something to do with the field there that we were using the field. So, we're not using the field. We haven't used the field in six, seven years. the question is, do we continue and extend the the multi-year tax abatement or do we sit there and not renew it? we had gotten in our packet about two months ago and we probably should do it for next month. We got some information from the tax collector related to this. And like I said, I don't think we need to sit there and vote on this today, but we do need to be thinking about it and we need to know what our position is going to be so that the Hop River Homes can prepare for it.
One thing I did this past week, Jeff, was I called down there and asked if the past residents get any priority down there or you residents of our town get any priority? They said no.
Okay. for
priority for wait the wait list because most times they have a two-year wait list to get into homes. So Andover residents if you needed to go there because of an emergency situation you are not giving any priority and we also have abaded anything over $12,000. So, it's a substantial cash amount. And in the past, we've we're supposed to get their tax information showing that they're 100% nonprofit, what they charge the residents because a certain number of their units are section 8 and the other six are department of agriculture. So they prorrate the rent for based on the person's income, but they still get the money from section 8 or the Department of Agriculture to make up the difference in the rent.
Okay. what I I'll try to do is ask for some more information and Carol since you have a lot of history on that if we can sit there and put together something so we understand what we're doing and you know in my head it's just that we need to communicate to Hot River Homes if we're going to make it if we're going to make a change,
right? I know the assessor had given some input on it too a few years back. So maybe we can check with John.
Okay. anything else on Jay?
Would it be a lot to ask for to have, you know, residents have a priority down there?
They're privately owned. I don't know that we could mandate I mean, we could mandate that that is the rule if we're going to give them an abatement, I guess, but we'd have to I don't know what the law would be on that. Yes,
I know the last time we did this, Scott, we did get information from the management company. So, basically what it is is it's a nonprofit. Well, it's it's a it's run by a management company. And the question that I have and I have always had is is the information that Carol gave us on the rents is really important because if the rents can't be adjusted, then the abatement is going to the management company. One resident a year. How about that? Ask for that. One resident a year. One for sure resident a year.
Well, why don't we get the information on the the document and decide if we're going to give the abatement anyway?
I mean, who was using the field to begin with?
Softball girls
years ago. And it's only softball girls that that's can't be baseball. It's
can't be little league. Can't be little league boy. Can't be boys. Can't be teball. Can't even be T-ball. Softball Girls is what the lease is in the clerk's office. It's in one of the files. So, you can go in there and see the 99 year lease that they gave us on that. But, as you can see, no one has maintained it. We used to go I think my girls were the last group of girls that played softball on that field and the parents used to go down and maintain it. I mean, we had we had Hammer was using it initially when some of the residents were involved in that a few years ago and they would go down there and use it as a practice field, but that's the last thing.
Didn't use it last summer, but he used it this summer before.
Oh, he did? Okay. I wasn't
But but it it's not it's not been maintained. And it is the septic leech. It's the backup field for the for Hop River Homes. So,
and how many more years how many more years the lease?
I don't remember.
Even if we even if we we'd end up probably breaking the lease if we sat there and and terminated the abatement,
which I'm concerned about. Let's just say the town grows in 20 25 years and they start softball or, you know, there's a softball need
and then we've kind of we've kind of severed that agreement. But, you know, 20 years, $12,000 a year, that's quite a bit of money. It's a lot more than 12,000 a year. We They only have to pay us 12,000. So if their taxes are 30,000, they save 18,000. So I don't know, Jeff, you said that the tax collector gave some information. Did she give an amount? Well, if I if I sit there if I
think the I think the the it's 50% abatement on an annual was was what was voted on and carried. So,
okay.
Yeah, it's but it's still a lot of money and we need to just obtain all the information and get all the information so we can sit there and have the correct information. It's not due until September, but it's something that we need to be thinking about what we want to do.
And if it's restricted just to softball, if it was, you know, if little leaguers could use it and t-ballers could use it, I would be more open to keeping it going, but and I don't know if they'd be open to doing something like that.
Didn't the document say more than just girls? I thought
it originally was just girls. I don't know if I I wasn't even aware that Ryan's group was using it for practice. So,
I think that the new one that was signed is something a little bit more a little different than that, more encompassing, but not too much.
Well, let's sit there and
no adults. I know it said that.
You can see you can see that like the you can see the school the attendance at the elementary school is starting to to go back come back up. So, we could in 10 years theoretically have a need for that field. So, I would hate to give it away and not be able to get it back if
I have I feel the same way, Jeff.
Okay. Well, let's sit there and get the details and let's talk about it at our next meeting. This is one that's going to have to stay on here until we draft the contract and get with the directors of the Hop River Homes and get it done. Okay. So, if we move on to 8K, that's discussion and possible action on the review with MUI to allow Roberto Dory to train and perform transitional work in the sessions office. We're going to move 8K to the end of our meeting. We're going to move on to nine which is new business. New business discuss and act upon the following. 9A discussion and possible action on schedule to review the 20 26 2027 departmental budgets. I know in speaking to other members, we don't need to sit there and have crazy meetings because we don't want to put the new town administrator or the, you know, the other town administrator through a lot. We really need to focus on the capital budget and the road work and how much road work is really going to get done. so what I would like to do is get with Jim and sit there and see the documentation that the they the the treasurer's office and the board of finance is putting together and then u circle back to what we want to sit there and propose as as what we would like to see happen with the town and the amount of money that the town has available to spend. So
I'd be open. I think we should probably put a draft together amongst us and then just maybe have a meeting with the board of finance together. Okay. With basically spelling out what our what our capital and spend needs are for next year and what we'd like to see approve what we'd like to see in the budget.
Okay.
That's what I'd like to propose. do we have some time at the end of the month before our next meeting to sit there and review any of the information from the budget the budget line items because it's there's we're under a fairly tight timeline. what's everyone's schedule? And Jeff, you have a February 11th joint meeting with the board of finance scheduled.
So, we need to be prepared before that meeting. So, we have a February 11th meeting with the board of finance.
I I have Kate put up Zoom meetings. Maybe maybe BF pass the schedule.
Does that
February 11th, 18th, March 4th, March 18th?
Does that conflict?
that might have been a BOF schedule that they passed.
The BOE meeting.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. It'll conflict with the BOE meeting.
They have a joint meeting on the 18th. It says on the calendar.
Yeah, that's that's it.
Board of Finest Board of Selectmen.
Actually, he has got him twice. We got the 11th, the 18th,
the fourth.
11th, and the 18th. So, can we find out which one is the right? I think probably what happened, Jim, is they moved it to the 18th because it was conflicting with the board of education meeting.
So, let's find out which one of those is there. And then it still means we we should get together either in the beginning of February once we have documentation and we should have a meeting that's just strictly dealing with budget issues and capital that we want to sit there and see moved forward because that's really where we can be the most helpful is what is the vision for the community and what do we want to see get done with the capital budget. that we have available to our us. So,
you saying do a b budget workshop for one day and just, you know, have one meeting to just kind of go over everything?
Yeah. But does anybody have a problem with February 4th or do they want to do it sooner?
That's fine. As long as we have it before the 18th, correct?
Yeah. So,
do you think that maybe we should meet the end of this month just in case we need a second meeting, then we have the fourth available? Sure. How's the 29th to Thursday?
It's fine.
Let me check my seller schedule. Second and then that'll give time for Jim and and what we need to get done in the finance department to be able to
Yeah. Yeah, as long as I can get the documents emailed to us before that date so we can, you know, that way we can formulate our questions and streamline everything.
Yeah. So,
just so I'm clear, do you guys want it all in the budget format that it was in last year? I I think we need to talk with the board of finance chair and sit there and see because Chris, if you're asking me, I don't want it in that format, but I think it needs I think it needs to be modified, but it's a question of how is it modified and what it what it's modified to. And so
just please keep me in the loop and make it clear so I can make sure you guys have everything you need.
Yep, no problem.
Thank you.
Okay, so the 29th is fine for me if that works for everyone else. All right, so Thursday 7 o'clock work. So, Jim, if you could schedule a meeting for us for the 29th of January, a budget workshop meeting for the board of selectmen.
Yeah. Does that come off as a special or is it just a separate?
Yes, it's a special meeting.
Special budget workshop. You got
Okay. 9B, discussion and possible action on the establishment of a project review committee. So this is what we were talking about before. this would be a project review committee that would assist the town in any project from from my end. What I would recommend is any project, you know, in in excess of $25,000, you would want this committee to be a committee that would just evaluate the documentation and and the plan that is going putting put forward. So in most cases it would be you know the town administrator sitting there saying we need to do X Y andZ project or the superintendent saying we need to do X Y and Z project and here's the project and then this committee would sit there and evaluate all of the documentation related to that project and the best way to to move forward. And if it was a significant enough project and it needed plans, they would then review the plans and do all of the work that anyone in a project review position would do for any business, right? Am I am I missing something, Jeff? Because, you know, in my head, it's it's more just a collaborative effort of volunteers from the community that have construction experience.
Yeah, it's correct. I mean, any any project that I've ever taken on or had to present, you bring in, you know, subject matter experts to review your proposal. And so, I just think it's it's a good thing for the town. It's a good thing for the taxpayers just to make sure, you know, like I said, if you can't afford to do it right the first time, you can't afford to do it twice. So, just to make sure that we get all our tees do, you know, crossed and our eyes dotted.
All right. does anyone have a problem with what what what number would everybody like to see that they that this committee evaluate the project?
I think we should leave it open because I I would like to try to get two electricians. I'd like to try to get two plumbers, you know, because you're going to have overlap. You're going to have people that can't attend. and we're not really we're not reallying committee. You're talking about a dollar threshold, Jeff, or you
Yeah, I I was talking about a dollar a threshold members.
Can I just ask a question? If we're going to establish this committee, can we let them know what their job is because a lot of times committees are established and they don't really understand what their job is. So if like what Jeff is, I hear what you're saying, Jeff. don't really put a dollar threshold on it, but I almost think that we have to,
you know, because if it's if there's no threshold, then do we have to follow our own rules and when it's $2,000 call and bother these volunteers to come in and oversee it? You know what I mean? I mean, I I have I mean, $25,000 is a is a project to me within the town.
That's that's a good project number. That's not a repair. That's a project.
Yeah. But but you're not going to go over road projects called, you know. No, it's gonna be anything.
They're not going to go over
Well, that's why we would set up the scope of what they would oversee.
There's going to be whoever's going to chair this committee, they're going to just bring in the subject matter experts depending on what kind of project it is. Let's just say for example, remember when we Scott, when we did the well project down at the ball fields and the lightning protection,
that would just probably bring in electricians for that and possibly a civil engineer. But
we did. Yeah, we wouldn't maybe a PL we wouldn't really need a plumber. We would just need a we would just need a couple electrical people just to
just do a sand.
You already volunteered to chair this committee. We're holding you to it.
Well, I think we need to advertise it first. I think we're
Oh, no. We need we need to advertise it first. And listen,
advertise,
we should want we should want as many people on this as want to participate because the more eyes on something, the better. Yeah. And whoever's on this committee, like if there's a set of drawing package that's got to go out, we just send it out to everybody. Then we have the meeting and everybody can come with their comments
and we just make recommendations.
So you're talking about like like the veterans field committee that was just the the playground and pickle ball courts. You're going to oversee that, too? I would I would think if it was a large project just the electrical and the if there's well piping or plumbing just to make sure that
we had we had electrical people design the whole thing
but we would have people serving on this committee permanently that would be there.
I mean not every not every project's going to have all those people on it. So, but I also don't think Scott that if if if someone was, let's sit there and say you had a project manager who was working with private schools and all the work that you did down the field would be similar to some of the work that that person would be doing on a regular basis, they could at least guide you. And this isn't not this is not like this committee is going to have approval process. They're there to guide the town and whoever is, you know, whoever is the one that's going to make the final decision so that they do it properly and they get the best value for the taxpayers's money. That's the basic setup of the committee is to evaluate the project, let us know what we can do better and what we should do better and use your experience and give us your guidance to say, "Hey, listen. this is what you should be thinking about doing.
I mean, perfect perfect example of this committee would be for the new garage down on Center Street.
Yeah.
Once we start getting some plans together and stuff, that's the that's the things we need to review. You know, once we've picked this contractor, we're going to say this is what, you know, we want or and we're going to review the drawings, whoever be on the committee,
electrical, plumbing, structural, you know, that that type of that type of stuff. And so the electrical guy could sit there and say, "That doesn't make any sense. Why are you doing this? You're charging us too much money." Y,
right? I mean, that's that's what I'm thinking that this group
or why are you not doing this or why are they, you know, that's
Yeah.
Okay. So, Carol, I hear what you're saying that we have to draft maybe a an appropriate procedure for this group, but it is what we're talking about here in a very basic way. It's, you know, it's someone like Adrien Mandeville who has all of the construction knowledge and then can sit there and be part of a group and look at a plan and say, "Hey, listen. This makes sense. this doesn't make sense. Those are the types of people that I think you're looking for.
well, just let's take let's take the town garage for example. I mean, eventually we're going to have electric vehicles at some point and they're going to need rapid charging and the only way we do that was three-phase power. So, whoever would be on this committee as an electrical expert would probably make sure that we are sized appropriately for three-phase vehicle charging. So, that's the type of things that I want to look at.
All right. So, I would like to make a motion that we establish a PL project review committee that will be be made up of professionals in construction trades and construction and engineering services that can assist and advise eyes on all town projects in excess of $25,000.
Seconded,
right? And so further discussion. So Carol, we will sit there and go through and try to determine and write a better u outline of expectations for this group. But my mind in my mind, Carol, this is all digital. This is as much digital as it needs to be. the other and then if you got to do a sitewalk or do something along that lines, you're trying to keep these volunteers engaged, give us their expertise without overwhelming them and forcing them to come to certain things. This is going to be like here's the project design or here's what the initial statement of work is on this project. Can you evaluate it and let us know what should be considered
before?
Yeah. And it's just going to be recommendations only. It's not going to be they're not going to have any power on a project or anything. It's just going to be building recommendations.
Yeah.
And for the reason of that is we do have some contractors in town that may bid on some projects. So, we don't want to have any involvement with spec writing or any of that. So, they just going to be purely advisory and and this should be where we advertise for this committee. And we also individually look for people that we know would be qualified to to submit their names for consideration for this committee. And it really is not even consideration. Pretty much it's if you apply and you have a skill, we're going to sit there and take advantage of it. Right.
So, can we get this in the River East for this Friday? And and
I don't think we can do it for Oh, we might be able to do it for this Friday. I don't know. Is the deadline Tuesday, Carol? Tuesday,
tomorrow.
Okay. I'll sit there and work at drafting something with with Jim on that or if you guys want to draft something. That would be great if we vote on it. If we approve it.
So, please be thinking if this gets approved about who you might want to consider on this committee. So, I I know that Eric Sanderson has participated with the board of education. I'd like to see him on this committee. I would I have some other people that I I will sit there and recommend, but we'll sit there and get a list of them for our next meeting and get this approved or maybe we include this in our special meeting for the 28th and we get it done there. So, all right.
So, I think I think we advertise then we can we can roll up all the names and we can appoint everybody at the next meeting.
Okay.
that's what I'd like to see happen.
All right. So I'd like to sit there and take a vote on the establishment of this committee. an
yes I
Carol Lee
Jeff Murray I Scott Person
and Jeff Magcguire I for so five nothing. So that's good. Let's there and move that along.
Jim put it on the meeting for the 29th right the special meeting budget meeting.
Yeah that's today is the 12th. Yes, we can sit there and say that they have two Fridays to be able to get us there. So, the 16th and the 23rd and we'll say we need the applications before the 27th.
We could put this on the town's Facebook page and leave it on the website.
That would be great. Let's do that. 9D discuss the status plan of conservation development. The conservation plan of conservation and development was in our packet starting on page 59 and going all the way to page 176.
next rainy day.
It was it was interesting. I went through some of it. I did not go through all of it in detail. we should all attempt to try to be at the board of planning and zoning meeting that they requested of us. And so since Scott and Ann are already on that, that leaves us other three to to read this and attend that meeting if we can. and I also recommend anybody from the community to go read that. It's very interesting information as far as a lot of demographic information in there that's interesting and
a lot of information that you know will determine different you know directions for grants and things like that you know
I think I think we forgot 9 C right
oh I'm sorry I did we'll go back for that so to the 9D is to discuss status of plan conservation and development. We don't have to discuss anything here. It's here and we're going to review it and try to attend the planning and zoning committee the meeting that was requested. 9C discussion and possible action on establish of a town job description review committee. So we have been reviewing the job description of the u the senior center director and the assistant director. I I do think it would be it would be helpful if we established a committee to evaluate and organize all the job descriptions within the town including the town administrator public works. I think we should sit there and engage all of the the heads of the departments to sit there and have consistent job descriptions across all of the town departments and employees. And what I would recommend and what I would like to do is once we I would like to put this in place and ask for community involvement, but I do think we would want to hold off on doing it until the with the exception of the job description for the town administrator. We should probably get that finalized as soon as possible. But I think it would be really good to
have the new town administrator involved in this because then they could sit there and walk through with all the department heads and understand what they do and what their their functional tasks are and then how to build a job description to go through this. and I would also sit there and say that two members of this board should be on it and then we should open it up to three members of the community and u unless there's other opinions as to how to do it. Anybody have any information or want to talk about it or
I think we should also talk with the labor attorney because there's a lot of conflicting job descriptions, contracts that conflict with our personnel policy. Then we have some positions that are identified within our charter. And I just think we need to consult with a labor attorney, too, and not just go out and have people doing this without consulting.
That's fine. I I have no problem with that. I I don't think that engaging the labor attorney, you know, and and we should probably have that discussion among our board like there is there has been discussion over minimizing the use of contracts for given positions and and I I I I have no problem having that discussion if we then lead this committee. Let's sit there and say this committee is maybe not just a job description committee. Maybe it's an HR committee and we try to find some HR professionals out within the community that might be able to help us because one thing you're trying to do is is determine do we have contracts for anyone other than the town administrator and the director of public works. You know, are they needed? but then then Carol we also need to review the town
personnel policies and update the town personnel policies.
So how we go about that as a board in a fair and evenhanded way is really what I'm after.
So I don't want it to seem as if one member of this board is sitting there trying to jam through the job description. So, I don't want to be that person to sit there and say, "This is the job description and this is the only way it needs to be." And I don't want to be the only person that sits there and says, "We need contracts for five people when we really only need them for two people or one person." so how do we want to sit there and do this type of committee? Well, I think we should probably I I mean I I agree with Carol at the labor attorney, but I
don't know if it it would be premature to engage them now. I think we had the committee. We wrote all the job descriptions and then we send all that information to the labor attorney and say, "Does this conflict with anything that's currently on the books as far as union contracts or that?" Because he's got to have something to review,
right? But a lot of most of the positions are are union positions. So, the only ones that are not is the town administrator, the community center employees and the public works director, and then of course we have zoning enforcement and the building inland wetlands and that who aren't part of the union. Do those individuals have contracts with the town? They do not.
I don't believe so. They might have small memorandums, but I we have to dig through. You know, we need to we need to work with Jim to continue to improve what the next administrator gets, you know, what they have available to them in the initial stages because it would be helpful. I do think we need to go through the the personnel policies, Carol. I think we need to go through all of the job descriptions because you know why in my head it would be good to go through all the job descriptions, even the library director, because then if we have it all set up in one place and it's all there, all the job descriptions are consistent and then we can sit there and any board any future board can sit there and review the job descriptions and know what's
know what's there. Do we need to make a change? You need you make a change.
right. I think the individual employment contracts didn't come in until about five or six years ago.
No, they they place they didn't come in place until we put in a town administrator.
Correct. Well,
no, it was after after
No, after after the town administrator. So I mean
back when we were first selectman form of government
you know there were no contracts there was no contract for the first selectman there was no contract for public works they were just part of the personnel policy but we also didn't have a public works director we had a public works foreman
correct
right so I I mean we don't need to do this today. I just think it's something that we have to put out there because we do have to clean that stuff up. I think as a board, if we want to sit there and get to a point where we focus and we rely on our personal policies the way that we've there's been discussions of relying on the personnel policies, then we need to clean up the personnel policies. And then we need to sit there and have solid job descriptions for all of the employees. So anyway, we can leave this one on for the next month too because hopefully we'll be closer to a town administrator moving forward, unless you guys want to vote on this right now. Okay. All right. so we did D. We're on 9E discussion and possible action on the appointment of Lisa Jablonsky as treasurer.
Is that right? one second. when did we have our meeting? We had another meeting. We had a special meeting.
It was It was Monday, the same as the education meeting,
the same day.
So, it was Monday the 5th at 2 PM. let me go through the process. So, we had received we had received treasure applications. There were three people that we had looked at as far as in reviewing the applications and the resumes, there were three people that had experience that would have made a fit for Andover and one of them chose not to sit there and have an interview and the other one other two we had interviews with and that committee was u members of the board of finance. so it was Heather Vancouver Kim Persan as members of the board of finance and then Jim Balano also participated in the initial interviews and then from there there was a group decision made on one of the candidates Lisa and then we had a second interview where the members of the board of selectmen were able to sit there and interview Lisa. So, I don't know if anybody has any comments related to that or if they if we can vote on appointing Lisa or anyone have any problems.
Jeff, did you ever get any feedback over some of the things that were discussed in executive session? Are you satisfied with those?
I am satisfied with them. I sent out an email related to the board of selectmen meeting minutes for Salem. personally, Jeeoff, I I sit there and look at it as there was an issue in Salem. She she was the director of finance and HR, so she had a specific level of involvement. And I think that all of what I was spoken to about that issue really has no bearing on it because I look at the issue as she was a victim.
Yep. I I agree as well.
All right. I personally I think Lisa is a very professional person. I think her background will work within Andover and I think her her demeanor will fit well within the town hall. That's my personal opinion. So gee,
I think she'll be a good addition to the town.
She wants She wants part-time work.
Yep.
Good fit. She's got aging parents. she lives in Coventry, aging parents, and she's got young grandkids, so she'd be a perfect fit for us.
Lives close by. and and hopefully you know that I mean not for nothing everybody's got to understand that we we have not had a bad a great relationship across boards and across departments within this community and the treasurer needs to be a unifying person and I think that she can do that. So, my hope is that she sits there and helps improve relationships across the board of finance and in the board of education and the board of selectmen and everybody works together and I'm hopeful that Lisa can help get there. So, I I mean I'd like to make a motion that we hire Lisa Jablonsky as the treasurer of the town of Andover.
Second that, Jeff.
Second that.
Okay. All right. Further discussion.
Can she start right away or?
Yes.
Okay. If there's no further discussion, I I'll call the vote. an creme.
Hi.
Carol Lee, Jeff Murray.
Hi.
Scott Person, Jeff Magcguire. So that's five nothing. So, we'll inform Lisa tomorrow that we can get moving on that one. All right. Let's see. Next. item 9F, discussion of possible action on the appointment of Miranda McDonald as the assistant to the assessor. Jim, I'm going to let you handle this one because I was not engaged in this.
So, we interviewed a number of candidates. it was six in total from a larger group was myself, it was the assessor John Traononus and RE Dhy conducted the U interview. So there's something you need to know off the bat. this assistant to the assessor, none of the candidates had experience, direct experience in the field. And I would say of the six, maybe there were three of them that impressed us very much. And so it was it was it wasn't an easy decision. At the end of the day, Miranda has some experience with title work, and that was kind of the closest we could come to at least being familiar with titles and homeownership and deeds, and maybe might be the quickest learner when it came to the assessor's office. And so, we unanimously settled on on her. But there will be a learning curve here. We just thought her background with title work made her the best of the candidates and so the committee recommends her hiring.
Can she start?
She can start immediately. She's another local most. I mean
she's an Andover res, correct?
Yeah, Andover. Yes.
Okay. I thought so. What? Carol, I She's very professional. She's done title searchers in the clerk's office. So, I I think she'd be very good in that office.
Okay.
Make the motion.
I like Jeff to make them because he doesn't
No, no, I was telling Jeff I was telling Jeff to make the motion.
Okay. All right.
I'll make I'll make the motion that we appoint Miranda McDonald as the assistant assistant to the assessor.
And pre seconded. further discussion.
All right, I'll call the vote and creme. I
Sarah
Lee. Hi,
Jeff Murray.
Hi,
Scott Person.
Jeff Magcguire. So, that's five nothing.
Thank you.
item 10, approval of the minute meetings for 128 2025. Does anybody have any issues related to the minute meetings? I'll make a motion that we approve the the December 8th, 2025 regular minute meetings. Second.
All right. So, Carol Lee seconded. I'll call the vote. Any,
Carol Lee,
I.
Jeff Murray,
I.
Scott Person, and Jeff McGuire I. Everyone voted unanimously. So, the five five nothing. item 11 on our agenda is the treasurer's report. information for that starts on page 185. any questions related to the information that was there? Any of the checks? Check registers are starting on 205 going to 210. Any questions? No. Okay, we will move on to the tax collector's report that starts in 211 of our package. So, the tax collector is in the middle of her collection month right now. So, she's in the town office as much as she possibly can be. Kate wrote us an information u a note that's on page 214. any questions or anything that we want to get with Kate on? Okay. the pages between 215 and 228 are all delinquent the the highest delinquent taxpayers within the town.
Name one.
Yeah. page 229 is a total of tax refunds for $1,461.38. So I'll make a motion that we authorize the refunding of $1,461.38 to various taxpaying residents or taxpayers of the town of Andor. Second.
Seconded by Carol Lee. All right. Further discussion.
We'll sit there and call a vote. Anne creme and voted. Yes. Carol.
Hi.
Caroline.
Hi.
Yep. Heard Jeff Murray.
Hi.
Scott Person.
Hi.
Jeff Magcguire. I So we voted four 50 on that issue as well. page 231 starts the departmental reports. and the one report that that that that is interesting to me and something that we really do need to focus on is the building department. I know December is always a small month a slow month for building permits, but it just it just seems like it's really low. And I know that I've had discussions with Scott related to this and it's something that we need to focus on and figure out a way to improve how cost estimates are are generated down in that office.
Calling around different different towns to find out what kind of
apps they use for that reporting and I haven't gotten any good information yet. I I reached out I was talking to Adrian the other day just you know a phone call and he said Windham has a very good process so that might be something Dennis could even help us with. They said if they have a they have a threshold for square footage per cost per square foot and if a per building permit comes in under that, they just reject it and they tell them, you know, come back when you have a good value on your your addition or your
call down there to that guy that runs that down there and he hasn't got back to me yet.
That that's what I was told would be a good person good to reach out to be the tunnel window. Yeah, pages 241 through 247 are really good information that like I was just sitting there looking at it going, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But and especially something like the Verizon wireless antennas
taking they must be taking the antennas down at the sportsman's club.
Well, I don't think they are. This is a Route Six location and they did a a removal and replacement of six antennas and and you know, I can't believe it just cost $40,000. I don't I don't believe in any world that that's what they got charged. So, it's just something we as a community need to do to improve, you know, we what we should hope to do with the permitting process is to be able to pay the cost of our our inspector and the assistant who works there. So, we need to do a better job of it because this look at the cost of of
that shed of what is it? A 16 by 24 shed. $3,600.
Yeah. Something like that's eight to $10,000 to go to Colder Farms.
Yeah. But that's that's a 10 x 12, Jeff. That one's 16 by 24.
I know. I'm just saying base ba a basic shed from Cloer Farms is 8 to $10,000.
Exactly. Yep. That's a big one. It's probably 20 something.
Yeah. So
$3,600 was the estimated cost on that That's what I'm saying.
And look at the pool, too. $54,000 and $839 on a fee for the pool. Anyway, we could go on and on about this one, but this is something we really do need to look at for the benefit of the community and how permits.
Do something about this.
Yeah, I mean, the the cell tower, I mean, $40,000 in labor. That looks like it's mostly a labor. This looks like they're swapping out antennas. So, that that number is probably good. Okay.
There's a couple other ones that are look accurate.
Okay.
And while we're talking about building department, is there any I I was I was at a I went by a property on Long Hill today and there was no dumpster on the site and they were just stacking drywall scraps right out in the front yard, a huge pile of them. And I was always told that these these a dumpster is required on site.
We do have an ordinance that requires
Yeah. I mean, they're not following the ordinance. I mean, there's just a huge pile of just building debris just right out in the front yard.
It says on Long Hill.
Yes. There's no dumpster there at all on the property.
Well, then what we should do is
for the hill, the old stone house that Yeah. Huh.
Yeah. Yeah. Look, look, look at the big pile of drywall. I mean, they're doing sheetrocking today, but there should be a dumpster on site for that.
Yeah, there should be.
So,
all right. page unless other people have other issues related to the building department. Okay. Page 249 through 252 is the update on any Scott I'm drawing a blank on that.
Light
light blight work. Yes. Blight. Thank you. Good question on that.
I look through that list and like 45% of those things listed have been resolved.
Why do we keep so many of them on there when they've been resolved and it just fills up the list and it's hard to see what's active?
We will ask the zoning enforcement officer officer to remove those.
Thank you.
Maybe the ones that come to us, but I don't think that he needs to remove it. I think that that's a good record.
Well, he can hide it in his spreadsheet. He doesn't need to delete the line.
He needs a record of that.
He can keep a record, but why do we need to see them all?
Yeah, just do a spreadsheet and just make a, you know, active tab and a, you know, inactive tab, you know, just
something like that. A simple
move over the other tab. So,
right. A tab on the top.
Okay.
Page two different would be good, Jeff. Exactly. Yeah. Page 253 is is a report from Eric Johansson, our new public works supervisor. he had a he had a an initial good go on his first real winter month of December. Had a couple good events. he was out plowing on the first event. So, a little bit different than expectations because he had one of the drivers who was was out. you know, and and honestly, you know, that wind event that we had in the middle of December was the first time that I've seen trees come down in town in a long time. So, they did a lot of work and you know, the utility companies did come out and get the trees off the lines that were out there. So, I think Eric is doing a pretty good job to get started. And I hope you're all communicating with him if you have any issues. But
I stopped down there the other day just to say hi.
Okay. And so I guess now Zach Zto has completed the tree warding program. So Zach Zto will be the tree warden for the town of Andover. So thank you Zach. 254. Anything else you want to Anybody want to talk about that? public works? Nope. Okay. 254 is the library report and 255 our last page is the registar of voters and and since we were earlier talking about smoking locations and Wall-E is is my favorite smoker. Wall-E is actually doing better. So I I'm happy to say that he's waving to me a little bit happier now that he's feeling a little better. So it's good good for that. anything else as far as departmental reports? No. Okay. before we move to executive session, I would like to actually do public speak if no one here has a
problem. Right. Okay. So, we're going to move on to 14. I'm assuming Jim there's nothing on item 14 for correspondence. Jim?
No.
Okay. we're going to move on to item 15, public speak, and I got to look for a different computer. So, first on my list is Diane Grineer. Thank you very much. good job, guys. Lot lots of things actually done tonight. I know you had a big list. I really like the idea of the project review committee. I think that's a that's a good one. and welcome to the new assistant to the accessor and the new treasurer. we we needed those things and it's a it's a good thing and thank you all for all you do for us. Thank you and good night.
Right, Liz Lo catch.
hi. not too much. Just wanted to thank you all for all your hard work and I am looking forward to the board of ed meeting and hope that it is wellreceived. U I think you guys are coming about it from the you know with the right heart and I'm going to be rooting for you.
Okay. Chris Harky, I won't call you Galaxy 525.
Nope. Thank you. No, it was just looking forward to meeting the new treasurer.
Okay. Stephen King,
was a pleasure listening in. Thank you.
Bill Penn. All right, we'll go to Elaine Bukart.
Hi, thanks and and and thanks Jim for reminding me that we do need state permission for that second. Welcome to Andover Sign. and just let me know when we need to go ahead and do a sitewalk with the state to go ahead and determine if if the location we picked was correct. Thanks,
Joanne Heert.
just going to say congratulations on hiring two new employees in the town hall and that's it. Thank you so much.
Leanne Hutchinson All set. Thank you anyway.
Okay. And phone number 2345. Is that Dennis?
Yeah.
Okay. everyone, thank you. Did I miss anyone? Oh, I'm sorry. Test grass.
I'm all set. Thank you.
Okay. did I miss anyone? All right. And then everyone, thank you. I'm going to make a motion that we enter executive session for discussion on theou with the MEIU union. And I would like to invite in Jim Balano and Dennis O'Brien if anybody. Right. Who wants to second that so we can get moving?
Second, Jeff.
All right. Jeff Murray. Jeff Murray seconded. So, we're gonna go through voting. Ann Crme, you can just talk in the background. Oh, she went away. Carol,
Jeff Murray,
I
Scott Person.
Jeff Magcguire. I And we'll sit there and go for 01. We'll say that an abstained. okay. So, Jim, if you could put everybody in the wait room that wants to stay on. and we have to And then there's Okay. And then one second. Okay. So, Jim, let back in the two people. All right. so we're going to move on to item 8K, discussion and possible action on theou with MEIU to allow Robera Dohy to train and perform transitional work in the assessor's office. do we have any discussion issues that we want to have on this topic? Okay, since there are none, I'm going to move on to item 16, adjournment. I make a motion that we adjourn.
We have a new person out there though. Owner, is that Wall-E?
No, it's me.
Well, your phone number is up there, too, Dennis. What's going
Yeah, I know. I'm I'm on the phone, too.
All right. Okay.
So, Dennis, you were in the waiting room, but
we're looking at your phone number.
I muted him. I muted him so he wouldn't get any background noise.
Okay.
All right. So, I made an I made motion to adjurnn. Who second it?
I'll second.
Caroli seconded. All those in favor?
I.
So, that is a five nothing vote. And anyway
we will see everybody.