and over. Welcome to Andover Planning and Zoning. Jay's here first. Excellent. All right. calling to order. we're to start with the public hearings. 207 and I did this last time we had public hearings. So, we're going to have the applicants state what their intent is and then
we'll have the first option here.
Yeah.
No.
Okay. Well, we should just go right.
We can skip and and do these.
Yeah. We'll skip right to B public hearing B. and since they're here first and then after they have their presentation then we'll have any questions from the planning and zoning commission and then there'll be discussion afterwards. Please keep it civil if there's any questions about the special permit.
U Mr. Chair.
Yes sir.
For the record John Guskowski. I I don't recall if I if I heard it but it you might just want to do a roll call just to make sure that you've established a quorum. Okay, fair enough. members of President Jed Larson, Scott Persona, myself, Patrick Dhy, alternates Jake Oh, Leanne Hutchson, remote Jay Cayman's alternate, and Kevin Art alternate present.
Sweetness.
Okay,
Pat, I'm here as well. Ann Marie Del alternate.
Great. All of our alternates are here. That's excellent.
Thank you. tonight after being hit by a car this afternoon that happened in the area.
Okay, we're just to bring everybody else up to speed that just logged on, we're starting with public hearing B application 26-4, special permit application to construct a market rate detached accessory apartment. And I'm going to give it over to Ron and Susan. Suzanne, sorry. Langu, go ahead.
Thank you.
My name is Ron. Thank you for letting me do my presentation tonight on our ADU unit. I am trying to build an ADU unit separate from my house 20 ft away in back of my two-car garage that's attached to the house for my parents to be able to give them care. they're elderly and they need u care. So that's my wife and I are taking care of them. So, we're building this 9 800 Oh, no, it's 795 square foot ADU unit and so I have a Wayne, do you have the floor plan up there?
Yep. Okay,
actually we can start with Mr. Kane.
Thanks. Actually, do you want to do a plat plan first to show where it's going to be? However you want to do it. probably that'd be a good idea. Yeah. So there there we have it. So, if you see the existing garage that's there now that's attached to the existing two-story house, 20 foot back, there is a 28x 28 space and that's going to be where the AD unit is. It'll be 6 foot in. It's like a little driveway that runs on the side of my existing garage that goes back to our barn and it's going to be six feet in from the driveway and 20 ft from the house. it's not near any other property lines at all. We're at least 500 to 1,000 ft away from property lines on each side of me and or way over 1,000 ft from back property lines to front property lines. You can't even see this thing when we're driving up the driveway or from anybody's property. So with that I was asking for an exemption for 23 2D 23 2 E 232F 23 2B 23.5 B1 23 5 C 23.5D 44.21.3 4.214 24.215 215. Being that they don't pertain to my edu unit, I was asking the board would exempt those for me. and if you can bring up the house plans
floor plan. Yes, it it will be a onebedroom. It will be a one and a half bath set up for wheelchair access and for easy accessibility for them because they are in their 90s. So I wanted to make everything that way. It has their own laundry. she still prefers to do her own laundry, but we can do it for them. and a wide open kitchen and living room with no jobs in the floor. Everything one floor all the way around and heating going into the shower. and it's self-contained. It has their own heating, their own air conditioning. Electricity I will provide from my house. The panel from my house is big enough to handle the electricity for their house. And they'll have their own circuit breaker box in that in that facility. the water will be supplied from the well that feeds the house. It's capacity is fine. and the septic system is able to handle the extra bedroom and it was signed off by the Eastern Highlands people and I do have approval of that. and it has access front access back. I
am putting a fl a frostfree foundation 4 foot crawl space under a house with a concrete floor and an outside doghouse door for accessibility if we have to ever access any of the u I'm putting in floor heating for them so that the floor is always warm for them. And I gave them a fireplace that's going to be gas fireplace so that if they're they're not warm enough, they can always hit the remote and get the fireplace to give them other heat. And there'll be central air conditioning will be duct work through the truss ceilings. All individual duct work so it's evenly cooled through the house for them too. and then it has its own kitchen. pretty much everything's self-contained. There is pling. I did have pictures I sent Lynn of the property of where it's going to be and there's plenty of parking right now. I have the horse trailer there, but we're going to take the grass out, put spelling in there. That's the road that'll be on the side that goes to the barn you see in front of the horse trailer. And where that
stake is is the far point of going to the front of the house is where that first stake is right there.
So, will they be parking across the room?
They won't have a car. They won't they don't drive anymore. We do pick them up now, but we need to provide parking for if they have company or if somebody down the road moves in there or whatever has a car. So, that whole thing will be plenty of parking. It'll be at least three, four cars of parking if they need it.
So, there's a driveway coming right up to the house. It's going to be
right. It's going to be that road going to the barn right across. So, it'll be right directly across from the house that and that did you ever want to bring up the approval from the Eastern Highlands? Let's should we engineer this? In 2020, I did have a new septic tank put in and my fields were adequate at the time. However, we did have the deceptive people come out again and they checked everything over, put cameras down and said everything is still in great shape. My leechfield is still in great shape and gave the all the information to Glenn at Eastern Highlands and he agrees and he sent it to the state of Connecticut and they signed off and said it's sufficient for what we want to do. the lighting. Now, there is existing lighting out there now. it stays on all night long on the driveway and at
the barn for the horses in case, you know, somebody had to access through a horse or something at night. and there's also going to be outdoor lighting on the house on both front, back, and sides. So, there's plenty of lighting for everything. Does anybody have any questions?
So, do you have like a walkway between your house and
There's going to be a walkway. Yeah. I just haven't decided. There's two entrances to my garage. Two regular door entrances to the garage on the house. One on the back side and one on the front. After it's graded, I want to see which one's the levelst once they get the ADU unit in. It'll be the levelst area. And that's what I'll have. That'll be the walkway into that garage and then right into my house. So,
from where your proposed parking is to the house, you're going to have
right where that where that driveway is. It'll either be a walkway right on the side of that against my house and against my garage going to the house or between the front porch. didn't show it there, but so where that unit is, if you go to where you see this the silk fence right between my house and there
's a door that goes to my back garage right there where that little outdoor jog out is I can make a walkway from there to there. I just want to see what's going to be the easiest for them once I get it get the structure foundation in from there. No problem.
I wonder plan B. It looks almost like you you have two different lots here. Look, it look to me like the accessory unit be different than your house.
No, it's all one big
that's all one big lot. Just 24 acres up there.
and that's what the house and the house is pretty much in the center of the paper. Apologies if I missed this earlier, but did you say that the the single septic system was going to handle both residences? Correct.
Okay. Anybody else have all set? Thank you.
Any other questions from the public?
Okay. Thanks. And the application this this special permit application do you think that everything was complete here? As far as I'm concerned, yeah, that everything is is in order. the only thing like he asked for he asked for exemption from the A2 A2 plot plan and this is actually taken from a polebar plan that these guys must have done back in 2018 looks like well
we have the we have Eastern Highlands we have the checklist list signage and and all that. The notification of orders was done. he's showing ENS around the low I left it up left it up to him to show ENS around the low side of of the structure since he's going to be doing some excavating. I think it's all in order. Thank you. Any public?
I asked for while I ask again. Is there any input from the public? Anybody online?
close. I guess you can close this public hearing, but hopefully Seth will be given
any estimated time or
Well, he thought he was supposed to be here at 7:30 for some reason.
Okay.
I don't know what to say, guys. Any other members of the commission have any other questions before I close their public hearing?
None here. Thank you.
Thank you,
Hi.
Yeah, I'm trying to look on our website at the same time. Is there a list somewhere that I haven't come across yet of the sections that Ron asked for exemption from?
Because he said they didn't pertain to him.
yeah, it's part of the it's part of the checklist, I believe. I've been going down the list. I didn't get that far. Okay, as long as it's there. Thank you.
There it's
right here. It's the last page of the checklist. You got that in the end?
I see it. I just didn't know if it had been posted separately, but I see it.
Y
All right, everybody's done.
Good. We move on.
All right. Thank you very much. Lean. All set now.
Everybody's all set. No other last minute questions. before I close the public hearing.
I don't.
Okay. thank you very much.
Thank you.
You're welcome. So, you guys can hang around and see what happens during a regular meeting after Seth's recent.
Okay. Thank you.
All right.
Okay. Seth Kane. welcome to Andover Planning Zoning. I wanted to give you the quick spiel of your presentation and then afterwards the commission may have a couple questions for you and then any public comments and then I ask anybody to be respectful with their questions and then after that we'll close the public hearing. So,
do you want me to stand up there?
stand up where you're out of the camera. I'll run
and then state your name and this is a special permit application provide gunsmithing and firearms trade for service home occupation pursuant to section 4.12A of the Andover zoning rings. Go ahead.
All right. yeah, my name is Seth Kane. I'm I just moved here about eight months ago. I'm actually a Connecticut native, but I spent the last five years in Houston, Texas, where I met my fiance and, she dragged me back up here. So, back in Connecticut, I'm happy to be here. Really appreciate this town, and I've really much enjoyed, living here so far. I reside over on, East Street, with my fiance, two cats on 98 property. the reason for my special application is that I have a degree in economics. I've worked in offices my entire life. It's been something I do for work, but my passion has always been restoration work. I do I've done work on furniture, cars. I used to do extensive work on machining, electrical presses, lathes, things of that nature. And I very much believe in giving objects of history a second chance. I'm I consider myself a big time history buff in some aspects. but when I was 18 or 19, I was very mechanically minded. I started moving from drill presses and other things like that to I started working with firearms a little bit. I was just a target shooter at first, but I discovered that gunsmithing itself is a dying art. there's not many people around that do it kind of in the same realm as blacksmithing. It is not so much these days about using technique or appreciation for you know the way that wood is wood is manipulated or metal or things like that. There's a historical aspect to it in terms of trying to preserve things that exist in these objects of history. my
specialty has been always working on old Winchester cowboy action lever guns, things like that. And, me personally, I'm not I'm not a political person. I'm very private. but I've always been just fascinated by design and things like that and actually using these old techniques to keep you know, these objects alive. And in understanding that I've really decided that since we purchased our home and that you know we are trying to become members of the community and offer something to the community I would like to offer these services not just in firearms but also just in furniture and fabrication work as well. and on recommendation from my attorney he suggested that I file for his permit and federal license just to make sure that I'm kosher with the state of Connecticut and the federal government and acting and performing these services. So that's that's the purpose of my application. I no way, shape or form want to have any sort of impact on a negative impact on my surrounding neighbors or the community or anything. I respect them extremely. I've had great interactions with a couple of them so far that I've encountered and yeah it's the nature of the business is predominantly just working in my garage filing paperwork on behalf of people by an appointment only basis and you
know having a UPS truck show up every now and then to do with out of state work and actual you know parts and things that I can fabricate or repair for people. that's the entirety of the business as it sits right now. and in terms of lack of iron and things of that nature, I am a member over at the Andover Sportsman Club. so I I have that as an option should that be inceptated. But, I do live on a 9 acre property. there's a very extensive downhill slope that goes through the the entire property. It bottoms out at an area that's about 5 500 yards, I believe, from the road, I would estimate. And there's a sufficient safety options for you know a burn or things of that nature to make sure that if there was a live fire required if any of these restoration works you know I would have a safe option to do that and to you know construct it and do things in a safe manner. yeah and that's that's my presentation. I did I did bring down my map in case anyone needs
you should probably give them your map
right. And yeah, this is just the the copy I drew up. Much appreciated to Wayne for helping me get a copy of this. just to point things out, our home is actually here and the entire property spans all the way to East Street on this side. we do have a ponds that covers about one acre and that's located down at the bottom here. We've also clear that's predominantly forest and you know that's what we can property. So, if anybody's take a look at this, I can pass this around into view.
Yeah, I take any questions. you're doing all the work inside of existing structures. Correct.
Yeah, that's correct. all the machinery would be low noise. you know, typical drive work stuff. anybody that's ever worked in a garage on Mustangs or anything like that. It it's it's it's very small time and I don't anticipate actually having any sort of hazard hazardous chemicals or anything like that. no explosives, nothing nothing of that nature.
So, is this your full-time job or is this a
It's a It's a hobby. It's a hobby I've been doing for a number of years just to supplement my income and you know it's just it's mostly been a hobby. I work in aerospace right now for a circuit board manufacturer. but besides that I've worked in manufacturing fields and logistics as well when I was in Texas. So I have a very a very solid understanding of machining and repair work and things like that from doing so.
Thanks. any questions from the commission?
The only question I have is did we make the application broad cover all the things he said he wants to do? It was focused on firearms that now we're adding furniture restoration, that sort of thing. Should we put that on the application just so that it's complete with everything that you want to do? Oh, add I
the furniture part of it is something that I figured I would offer to the community just to to assist and help, but I don't really expect it to be a major part of the business. There's
I mean, if it's something you're going to do, I think it's easy enough to to get that on the record and make it part of the application, right? Yeah.
It's more so just that, you know, people around to your right.
I mean, technically, you can be working with you're you are refinishing
socks and forearms and stuff like that. So, seems to me furniture goes right along with that in a way kind of.
Yeah. And it's it's just a service to offer to the community community. So, if somebody needs a piece of metal fabricated or something welded, anything like that, I'd like to offer it just to give people an option because when I was growing up, I didn't know how to use any of these tools, I didn't have access, trying to find somebody that could weld or machine something for my barbecue that I made or, you know, my bike or something like that, it was never really available. I grew up in Fairfield County and Fairfield. Exactly. And everybody there pretty much white collar goes to the city every day and doesn't really do a whole lot on the weekends in terms of intricate work like that. So
how do you advertise?
I predominantly operate just on the internet. I I am part of a couple collecting forums and through those I just maintain relationships with people and yeah So, u I know I had asked you this and you addressed it in your presentation. but would you consider purchasing a bullet trap rather than outdoor live fire?
potentially. Sure. Yeah. It's if it's something that commission would require, I would certainly into a
the commission could possibly make that a conditional or something like that. I mean, it be be up to them, but I mean, for what it's worth, I know that a couple of my neighbors discharge firearms regularly on their property, so I'm not sure it's it would be a concern for them. but obviously that option is presented.
Well, obviously from my perspective it it it's sort of like depends upon the volume. You know, if you're successful and you get a lot of work, you could potentially, you know, you have to do the potential there all the time, then then Wayne might have to face a
complaint. Complaint calls. Yeah. Right. So we would need to know the frequency slash you know is this is that going to be a planned thing all the time or just be a member of the Andover sports club. You
said you got the I mean the sportsman club is obviously the ideal
that would be the ideal.
Yeah.
Right. It's not a frequent occurrence but the the majority of work that I end up doing is just restoring things that actually still function and the live fire is not always necessary in doing that. So if I'm restoring a piece of wood for somebody or if I'm just making sure something's safe to operate, a lot of fire is not always fired. And with the amount of work I do now, I don't even directly work on firearms like because of licensing and things like that. The work I do is actually building parts and making sure that components are available for people to repair their own firearms on their own with. So the structure of my business right now is even revolving around live fire. Okay,
Wanda, do you have everything you need for the application?
I have everything I need for the application.
I was like need Eastern Highlands.
right.
Using the existing structures, not adding anything.
Okay.
he's there's some exhibits, you know, made him aware of the signage limitations, restrictions and, a sign on the garage itself or you can put a sign on the building, you can put a sign, small sign on the road so chooses.
Very good. All right. Since we have no other questions, you're welcome to stay until we make a decision later or you can leave. We're going to close the public hearing now.
Sounds good.
Thank you very much.
Public hearing is closed now. These guys go into their regular meeting and they got some steps to go through and they may or may not deliberate on your application tonight. but you're welcome to stick around.
understanding that during the regular session, the only people asking questions and conversations back and forth are commission members amongst themselves and professional staff. There's not supposed to be any outside conversation.
Right. Time is now 7 30 and we're calling to order the regular planning and zoning meeting. first we're going to see at present is Jed Larson. Scott Persan, myself, Patrick Dhy, Leanne Hutcherson, and we would we now need to see an alternate last time. Was he right? or still there Kevin Art, would you like to be seated?
Are you asking me? I'm sorry. You're
cut.
Would you like to be seated?
Sure.
Okay. And seat was Henry D.
All right. Thank you. So, next is additions and changes to the agenda a agenda. We would like to add a 6B for Jessica Chapman owner of Whispering Hills for a discussion about
concepts of development.
Concepts of development. Thanks Scott.
that's all six feet though.
Yeah, we're going to get there in a little while for anyone that's not been to the apartments. Is that okay? First they have to do a motion to add it to the agenda to approve the motion.
Thank you.
And then when we get to 6B and I have a motion
I'll make a motion.
Oh, thank you. I'll second.
All in favor?
I motion passes. All right. item four, public speak. Is there anything?
Yes, Leanne. Go ahead,
Patrick. This is Leanne. are we ready to add an item to fill our our full member vacancy to to name someone tonight?
No, not just yet. the the submission of letters of interest are open until Monday, May 18th.
Okay. That's that that satisfies the timeline for notifying the town clerk, etc. And it that's the date that it ends.
Yes, that's that's the date we me and clerk came up with. Okay, very good.
Any other public speak of about topics, concerns not on the agenda? Okay, moving along. Old business. we're now going to consider special permit application. Do we do those in the order that we receive them?
There's no difference.
Right. Let's start with A then. special permit application 26-3. the gunsmithing special per you know what Wayne thought of about you know if you start getting complaints you're going to have to sometime what did you call it? A bullet trap.
I just thought that was maybe one one alternative. Obviously using the annual sportsman's club would as Mr. Kane
indicated would be the best solution. I suppose the commission could put a condition that that the sportsman's club be used exclusively for any live fire related to the gunsmithing operation or that if there are complaints then has to purchase a bullet trap or something like that. I think I've Leave that up to you guys. Whichever you think.
Well, I don't think we should require it to enforcement, but you're free to shoot on your property and free property.
If it gets to be excessive, then you know,
see what we can do about that.
Yeah, that's all right. I'm okay with that. That's fine.
I apologize. I didn't look at the map, but is is that a more populated area of East Street or whereabouts is that?
Oh, how far from Hurst? A couple blocks down from Hurst. You know, yeah.
Okay. That that side.
Yeah. There there are residences on either side. He has nine acres I believe in between.
Okay.
I have no question. Thank you.
Anybody want to make a motion? Make a motion to approve the application. I'll second. All right. And let's take a vote. any discussion on the motion? Any discussion on motion?
Should we verify the application to put the furniture restoration in there?
I think you should if if Mr. Kaine indicated that that's something he intended on pursuing. I understand that's not as politically sensitive as you know firearm restoration, but if that's what your business is going to include, we ought to have the we ought to grant you that authority to go out and do your business.
Makes sense to add it now rather than later.
And we amend that now. You can just do it in the motion.
So,
okay. I amend my motion to add the word furniture restoration. So, it would be application 26-3 SD to provide furniture restoration and gun smithing and firearms transfer service home occupation pursuant to section 4.12 A2 with the andor zoning regulations. Any new discussion or we're ready to take a vote?
Hearing no discussion.
J I
Leanne
I
Ann Marie
and I for myself motion passes 500.
Yeah. permit been granted.
Congratulations. You're done for now.
Oh yeah, check with Wayne.
Yeah, you'll be getting some correspondence from the office filing and stuff like that.
We'll we'll be in contact tomorrow.
Y Okay.
Thank you everyone. You
all right? Moving on to special permit application 26-4 SP. Mission style. I'll make a motion to approve application 26-4 SB. I'll second that. Any discussion? My only question was those items that they're asking for exception. None of those correct for
is that were those required?
He's asking for exemption from he asked for exemptions from the A2 survey requirement or the A2 site plan requirements.
Okay.
he presented information I think the commission can rely upon to make a a reasoned decision. So I don't see any issue with it. with the commission has seen worse. Let's clear it that way. Oops. Any other discussion or All right. Let's take a vote. I'll Chen.
Hi,
Scott.
Hi, Leanne.
Hi,
Ann Marie.
Hi,
and I for myself. Motion passes 500.
Congratulations. You'll be hearing from me tomorrow about the next steps.
One second. It could be a beautiful house.
Yeah,
you could patent that and make the senior housing for
Maybe we can move into it when we get old. Our kids can take over the house. You're going to be the engineer for the next day you hand over because it was very complete and good. That was very nice. Nice. Thank you.
We don't get them like that.
Well, I think you should express everything you want to do with the town so you guys know exactly what we're doing, right?
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Made it easy to approve.
All right. New business. we'll start with the informal discussion of con concepts for development of lint home corners property. welcome again.
Thank you.
And same as the other like the public hearing with you your presentation and we'll have questions and then
yeah. Thank you. And before I get started, how many how much time do we have? you know,
there's no set limit as long as you don't go to mid. I'll
practice gravity. do
you have the you want to put the letter that these guys sent us?
Yeah, sure.
Do that. Give me a second.
While he's doing that, I just want to express that I'm also I'm a member of the economic development commission movement. Okay. And this is in line with our newest plan of conservation development. And u John Viscowski, our town planner, can also attest to that. You know, we're looking for reasonable development in our town that fits our rural character. So awesome. Well, thank you for that. Good evening everyone. My name is Lesley Lesley Khour. I'm onethird of the group that wants to propose and to discuss this informal concept here for a mixeduse development. in what used to be the Rosewood Acres not too far from here. So, I have I have Sean Callahan here and Gavin on on the Zoom line. Gavin Duffy and Sean are the other partners on the entity. And so, we just actually executed a purchase and sale agreement with the current owner, Keith Keith Grimmaldi, and subject to closing on on on acquiring that that land. we just want to have a discussion with with the commission and we want to see if the ideas that we have can be supported by the commission and the town and see if you know there is any opportunity to to iterate around India to plan if if there's feedback to do so and just really get a feel for you know what the town is looking for does this make sense and you know can we go ahead and make the sort of heavy capital investment required to be we go
through this. And so, with that said, I'll just get right into it. So, the the land size is approximately 56.47 acres and it's located along, the Route 6, in Andover, and and I believe it's commonly known as as the as the Rosewood Acres, as I mentioned earlier. So, this proposal here outlines a mixeduse development concept. call it from a 10,000 foot view that would essentially transform this vacant lot into and also was previously approved for a subdivision into you know what we consider as a vibrant tax contributed community of residential town home apartments and the neighborhood scale retail along that corridor serving both local housing demand and the commercial corridor as well. So, what what we're looking to do just to, you know, minimize the amount of reinvention of the wheel that we need to do and also have a clear path to green here because we understand the size of the land and we can get very ambitious, but we want to be very mindful about just obviously the rural district design and what makes sense. And so rather than do, you know, high-rise apartment complexes with a lot of shared common space, we just feel like it just wouldn't really fit well in a community. And so we were thinking something more along the lines of various town home communities that are situated on on a 56 acre parcel with you know a modern farmhouse facad and and exterior look which we have some rebrance of in
there. And so currently there are existing lot lines that are indicating the 10 lot subdivision that was previously approved. Now, obviously, if we were to if we were to gain the commission's approval and work on even propose and proceed with this, we would reinvent the wheel on, you know, getting a surveys done and not assume that everything is is still good to go. and so, essentially, we're looking at lots 1 through 10. Again, the same lots that were previously approved for the subdivision. lot one which is right on the Route 6 front page there. we are proposing a 15 15,000 square foot neighborhood grade commercial building and we can discuss some ideas that we have for that in terms of IU tenants that we do envision for that place that would also serve the community quite well. And lots two and three we're proposing eight and six and eight town homes respectively. And then as we go through lots four and six, 12 homes, 12 town home units, and then lots eight and 10,
12 town home units as well. as you can see, we have indicated lot 7 to be held for phase two or future development. but we actually, you know, have a little bit more color that we would like to add to that. We we would want to consider possibly a storage unit facility back there. We think you know in our line of work we just completed a a a new construction development in in Manchester and and we own several units in in in the central Connecticut area. with these types of housing, you know, storage facilities does tend to be a very u important sort of additional option for for most folks in a limited community to have. and and we thought that would be a good add to have there. So, so that's what we have in mind from a future development perspective. so moving on, what we did is we we put together, again, this is an informal concept and so it's not a general development plan that a site engineer per se has put together. but but Gavin Duffy, one of our partners that's on the phone, he's a civil engineer by trade. And so, he was able to kind of really help us put together, you know, how we envision the lots to be split apart. And then obviously the buildings that are situated on it. So, John, I don't know if you want to scroll up a little bit. I think we're bit
Yeah. Where?
Yeah. You tell me. Tell me where you want to go.
so a little bit up. We're looking for the lot. Yes. Right there. A little bit up. Right there.
Okay. Yeah.
Layout. So, as you could see right there on lot one, which is on the on your upper right corner, which is right there on Route Six, I believe the existing zoning for that is in a business district as well. and there's already an approval with the DOT for curb cut directly into Route 6 as well. And the the lot, you know, we looked we also looked into from a zoning requirement perspective, you know, what do we need to to have in there from a parking requirements? and we were able to to to lay over that and and we were able to meet sort of, you know, what the requirement is. and so lots, you know, you know, lots two and three, lot two right above lot one and then three a little bit to the right over there. the reason why we're proposing six and eight units on that as
opposed to the 12 units for the remaining lots is because in in reviewing the the so a couple things with the subdivision these were reszone to residential lots. However, if you look at the property carts right now they do indicate it's ARD which is the Andover rural district design. And we do believe there's a requirement for there to be for the entire impervious use including the building structure itself driveways parking decks things of that sort to not exceed 15%. and so for those two lots, if we matched sort of the the 12 units, for the remaining lots, we would be reaching that by a couple percentages. And so we scaled it down to be conforming with the existing zoning for those lots. And then as you move through to from lots three for pardon me four through 10 with the exception of lot seven which
is all the way further up there there is enough square footage to meet the the zoning requirement for the imperous use as well as parking as well. And so this is just a general layout. Obviously, you know, we do have an engineer engaged that we would be working with to actually go ahead and make sure that we're we're looking at it from a topography perspective. you know, where the placements are do make sense. Again, you know, Gavin is a civil engineer by trading. So, we did look at that and consider that very greatly to make sure that the informal concept at least is close to where the the the real placements are actually going to end up being. and so yeah, you know, obviously this isn't a huge piece of land, but and we could fit twice as many in there, but for a lot of different reasons, we just and the most important one being you know, this being a rural district, we just felt this approach is is a little is a lot better and not sort of overly creating an overly dense community there. So, I'll move ahead unless there's any questions in the meantime. Awesome. So, we did discuss a little bit about the full, the lot assignment. And so, I'm going to I'm going to, move a little bit I'm going to move on from that. one of the things that we would be looking to sort of get a good
understanding from the commission and and as well as as as Wayne as well from a zoning perspective is so as we look to you know, proceed with the proper path to to this development it would be great to kind of have an understanding around you know does the existing zoning either from this the subdivision or the ARD allow us to do some sort of a text amendment to to proceed or we would have to go through the promo zoning change. We're more than willing to to to go down either path that the commission does require. Obviously, we want to balance this with, you know, what the least path of resistance is without any trade, you know, without trade in for quality per se. and we would be looking to, you know, if if all things considered look good probably and gain all the approvals that we needed, we would probably be ready to break ground at some point later this year. and so we're more than happy to to follow the direction and directive of the commission and zone it as well. but it would be good to sort of understand between the existing ARB zoning and the previously approved residential zoning, what would be sort of the proper path, the text amendment or sort of a new zonal change. so I'm I'm going to touch a little bit on on the retail component. so lot one is currently is 1.58 acres which is about 68,000 square foot. and it's the only lot with direct Route 6 front frontage and it's it's located immediately adjacent to what seems to be the business district zone. So what we're thinking is a singlestory commercial building shell up to 15,000 square foot and I believe the
stat the the statutory maximum under section 8.2 two of the Andover zoning regulations. is is this conforms with it pretty well and and we're thinking about dividing into three equal units about 5,000 square foot each and hopefully can bring in some businesses like the Starbucks and one of the ideas that we were also thinking about too which we think would be a great add to the community is seeing if we could partner with the grocery store chain like a big lie to do a build to suite that obviously would make sense for them you We want to also know what ideas the town may have in mind for that as well. and the development of of the retail store would probably be pushing the tail end of this project. so that we can also have the option to market and build the suit built a suit facility for prospect tenants as well. and so that's that's the retail component of it. and you know, obviously in the interest of time, I'm not going to to to go through every single word verbatim here, but for from 10,000 foot view, that's what we're looking at. John, if you don't mind scrolling down a
little bit so we can all have a look at the conceptual so this is this is the conceptual rendering for the town hall units that we're looking at. They would all be in a row. and so for the 12 units, we would either have six and six in two two buildings or just 12 in one one full row. and with the the six and eight, they're they're more than likely going to be just one row. We plan to put a garage in each one of them with a driveway leading up to it, just so it feels it has that single family feel to it a little bit more than just, you know, a high-rise apartment living sty style feel. with this being, you know, a rural district, that more modern farmhouse, facade, you know, we think, it would certainly sort of reintroduce a more modern style living and and and, yeah, modern style living that still feels very much like landover in my perspective. Yeah.
was it anticipated that these would be sold or rented?
No. So, these would be rented. So these would be rental communities and we plan to own them ourselves, manage them ourselves and most other properties. Yeah.
So we we did sort of do a snapshot of the land use and zoning considerations. I I think for the most part I I did sort of touch on this and and we have some questions that we can dive into here in a little bit, but essentially you know the the zone analysis by by each lot looking at either existing sort of again there's a bit of an end between those two zonins for the ARD and the residential zoning and so with either one the the considerations that went into this allow allows for conformity and being in compliance to that. and I think you know what we would want to get a good sense of is you know what is the actual current state from a zoning perspective from the commission's perspective and and Wayne's perspective where do we need to be so that we can come up with path to green and and get to that point.
So Mr. share.
Y
if I might, I'm gonna stop share just for a second.
So, for the record, John Gusowski, planner, and I thought we I I'm sorry, Leslie, I thought we had talked about this. the the town does have in their zoning regulations and and really I think the if not the only way forward certainly the the easiest way forward would be to propose a reszoning of this property to the Andover mixeduse floating zone which is section 26 of the zoning regulations which basically allows property with frontage on Route 6 is eligible and obviously this property does have frontage on Route 6 to develop via master plan which is sort of the start of what you've got going there. a a mixeduse development that includes elements of commercial and residential including multif family and in fact I think it is the only path forward for a multif family development currently in our zoning regulations. and it would allow this this sort of density. It would allow this sort of development and particularly, you know, focused as as you you have with the retail component, the the the commercial component fronting Route Six with the residential essentially behind. that all of these properties would be considered essentially part of the same master plan concept that the commission would need to essentially adopt the master plan and therefore use that master plan as as a cause to change the zoning district from its ARD which is which is basically the the residential design district in in Andover to this mixeduse concept and then following that following that reszoning conversion of zone designation to adopt the the the ultimate proposal as a special permit or
special exception. and I'm I'm looking to Jed to sort of confirm my my analysis of that.
I think you're correct. Thank you. I looked at the planned residential development section and the mixed use and I think my initial previous understanding of the mixed use was kind of a residential building with apartments on top of it. So when I first saw the the plan with you know 80 some apartments I said wow that's that's kind of big and I didn't know if that was with in the intent of the big use or not but I I did see the words in there that the commission had lots of leeway lots lots of leeway. So I I think you know that the mixed use is probably the right way to go. the other the question that I had that I can have now is you know we're bringing in
80ome units. I know you mentioned the word affordable housing in your discussion there somewhere.
I think it would be a shame to have 80ome units come into Andover and not have the affordable component when we're struggling
so vitally to get any affordable housing here and but again what your thoughts are on that maybe.
Yeah, so great point. so these are intended to be affordable housing. but I will be frank. So when we say affordable housing, we're not saying, you know, it's it's relative affordable to Andover, right? What's the median income for Andover and can folks in the median income bracket be able to afford these housing units? And and that's what we mean by by affordable housing. and so these are not by any means luxury housing priced at a price point that would be above you know the median income what the median income folks can afford in Andover. and so in that sense it will be affordable but it's not you know we're not we're not using a government subsidy loan like a HUD 22F loan to build it and we have to do some kind of like a projectbased housing subsidized housing. Right. So, so John, if you could you take a minute and go over that, please.
Sure. So, well, okay. So, so what it seems like, Leslie is is proposing is basically, a different market niche in Andover, which is, you know, probably below the median sales or rental price currently. it doesn't sound like he's necessarily proposing any deed restriction or income limits. So, you know, if if Elon Musk decided he wanted to live in one of those town houses, he could. He didn't need to be below the the the area median, what what we would call affordable, it would be some sort of deed restriction to limit the income of the the residents to, you know, 80% or less of the area median income. which is, you know, a target for the town. it's something that, you know, if if we were to get further into this, Leslie and Gavin and others, if if it's something you guys were willing to consider, we could look at things like density bonuses or, you know, additional units should some of the the the units be restricted and available to you know, folks at at lower at 60 or 80% of the area median. But yeah, that's you know it it would be our preference to expand the range of housing options including those who make less than the area median but you know we understand market realities as well and and so if there's an opportunity to kind of work together I think there's some you know some good
discussions to be had.
Is there a percentage of the units that you would want to be affordable income and be deed restricted? I'll I'll throw and this is you know ultimately the commission's decision. I I would throw out an initial benchmark of 20% but I think you know we understand development and and you know you have to make the you have to make your numbers work. you know there are there are some state and federal you know tax credit programs you know and that sort of thing to to help you know your your capital stack. But you know a a traditional what we would call in incentive housing would be 20% of the units restricted at 80% of a area median income. That would be sort of the the the baseline. But you know that's that's obviously subject to negotiation and we'd have to crunch the numbers.
Yeah and we can John as you said we haven't crunched the numbers. We we can certainly consider that especially if it's economically viable. but yes, yeah, we could we could certainly consider that.
yeah, because I and you know, in a in a relatively what what I've seen in the past, you know, a relatively wellto-do town, you know, your your delta between your 80% AMI for renters and your market rate, what you would charge for those townhouse units could be pretty close. you know, it may not be that much of a delta at all, but but yeah, we'd have to we'd have to crunch through those numbers,
but it would certainly be helpful with the town
to have some of those deed restricted so that we can start building our, you know, each town's goal is supposed to be 10%. We're sitting at about 5% now. So, you we need another
50 some units
to get out of that 10%.
Now, let me ask this. Do the units need to be deed to fit the that requirement or it's the price point they end up being leased at?
again, so there's going to be some devil in the details, but it needs to be essentially an all-in cost. So, you know, your total cost of rent, which would include, you know, base rent, whatever, utilities included,
would need to total up to less than 30% of the income of somebody making, you know, the 80% of the area median. So, a lot of percentages, but basically 30% of the of the 80%. And if you want to do just rough, you know, back of the envelope numbers, you'd be talking, let's say, let's say the the the median household is is $100,000 in Andover. 80% of that is $80,000 income. 30% of that of 30% of 80,000, which would be the housing budget of that moderate income person, is what? 24,000. and and then you divide that by 12, you're basically looking at an all-in rent of 2,000 or less.
So, so I'll tell you this. the the the where we probably need to gain better alignment is sort of deed in the units for that or not because that rent amount is right in line with what we're projecting for the entire complex for, right? and so we're more than happy to work with with commission to figure out how it needs to be appropriately done so the t the town can claim that rent too, right? and so if it's something that has to do with just, you know, what's the dollar amount families and folks end up paying to be able to live there on a monthly basis and ends up all of them fits that sort of map, you could say all those units are in that bracket, right? But again it goes back to
what qualifies it to fit that requirement. Does it need to be deed or or not?
Right.
right there would there would need to be some I mean again in order for the town or or to get sort of formal credit for it. There would need to be something in it would need to be an affordability plan. We would need to get basically annual reports that indicate that you know 20% of your occupants qualify.
Absolutely. So we that's you know we're more than happy to consider that. Yeah. Obviously you know not speak too generally before we discuss this but you know feel free to chime in Gavin and Sean if if you if you feel otherwise. but yes that's that's something that that we would consider. and yeah I mean you know I'm I'm local to this area. I don't live in Andover. My office is in Mansfield. and it's right behind the the the the mall. And so I I take this, I drive, I take the Route 6 route every day for years now. So, I know the
housing supply would be would be a good ad. I have, folks that work with us and and work for me that that live in this community. So, we know that the housing supply is a bit restricted and we think that we can we could definitely add a ton of value with with this mixed use opportunity. be before I I go ahead, do you have any questions you want to
Yeah. Okay.
So, one thing we would be looking to possibly do is separate each lot into its own deed. Is that going to be an issue with the whole reasoning when we go if you want to do that whole mixed use, what you call a mixeduse floating zone? Yeah, I I would not think so. I you know it I guess it depends on how you are what you're proposing to do. If you're proposing to essentially condoize them or like basically because I think this was a subdivision and then it was merged back. So it's currently a single lot again, right?
Yeah.
So John, what we want to do is we want to we want to retain. So, so we would we would apply for the same subdivision that was dissolved for the 10 lots and keep the the the the sort of previously approved lot lines
and we want each one of those 10 lots to be separately needed.
Oh, for septic purposes.
Yes. But it's for permit purposes.
Sure.
But but for a couple of reasons that we think are critical. so the first one is is that we we want to be able to supply units for people to move in before we're done with the whole thing, but it's also critical to how we're staggering our financing be able to get through. and so you know couple and what we're looking to do is we're looking to develop a couple at a time and essentially liquidate the equity that we've built from that and roll it on into the next and kind of go into a rolling phase which is kind of pretty similar to how we do our current projects. but it it is also the path that we can confidently speak to being able to really execute this whole thing within 36 months.
Okay. Yeah. So there's yeah a couple of things there and I mean I don't I mean we we haven't done and again I I'll look to Jed as the as the the recent wisdom of the commission here. we haven't done much of this kind of mixeduse floating zone and I I'm pretty pretty positive that we haven't dealt with
kind of a combined o overlay and subdivision but you know I think the the whole thing would have to be presented as a master plan concept in order to land the zone at that point
and then we would just have to work through and I don't think it's that big deal. It's really kind of a spirit of the the the law versus the language or the versus the the black and white of the law of could we land the floating zone and then create some lots that are applicable to the mixeduse floating zone that do not have direct frontage on six. There's there's a little sort of a procedural thing that I would want to work out with maybe our town attorney and your team, but I I think the commission is certainly within their power to look at the entire project
as as the master plan and and land the floating zone on that whole property to enable what you're you're doing. And then what you're talking about beyond that is really just a question of phasing for financing and septic development purposes. Okay.
as long as as long as you are proceeding down the track of the master plan of the whole thing as a mixeduse concept, I think that's something that's that's pretty much why that regulation was developed in the first place.
The so again never having done one of these didn't I had a preconceived notion of what it might look like in my head from reading the words. I don't know that the words are exactly right, but where I got hung up is under the applicability. The floating zone may be applied to any lot or assemblage of lots located in the very designated business or industrial and so or with frontage on route six jed
where we have simple. Okay. Yeah. I don't know what fe simple frontage means, but
well, it's it's not not accessed by an easement that they they own the frontage on Route Six.
Okay. Yeah. I so it was different than I was thinking you know and over need for housing and but when I was some of these lots have are rear lots that exit onto
looks like the culde-sac
on Lyn Holmes corner.
Yeah.
And some on 87. Well, yeah. And there's also a DOT approval for the room 87 right
only for single family.
Yes. Yeah. We would have to reinvent the wheel of all those applications with the DOT. Yes.
I mean, I'm not opposed to what what you're proposing. I think it's a good thing because we we got to figure out how to make the words go there.
Yeah.
In the density that you're proposing then probably something more significant. You know, I look through I look through the action items that we wrote down to expand the ability to put housing in with our planet conservation development update and I didn't see anything that came close to the number of units you guys put in. That doesn't mean that it it can't be that way. cuz you're coming in with a plan that's a little bit bigger than what we were
Yeah.
anticipating might come hand over his way.
Yeah. And we kept it small. We we kept, you know, the the the big we could have, you know, we could have we could have proposed, you know, we could have looked at potentially closing 200 units. But, again, this would there's a lot of community reading. and then obviously a lot of separation with greenery between you know the the town homes as well. Yeah. and then also, you know, I think you made a very good point, which is the size of it, but I think being able to kind of look at it from, you know, 10 individual lots, it kind of scales it down into a bite-sized approach and we can work with the town in a manner with which, you know, we're not there no bottlenecks, you know, from
trying to squeeze all 86 units done at once, right? but that said, you know, to to John's point, I think it's absolutely critical that we we look at it from the the big overarching master plan and we scale it down and then we just take it a bite-sized approach until we get to that point. And I think it it'll be probably easier on both ends and working through it.
So you guys have done this a few times before. You have the Manchester one. Yeah.
what do you expect the the turnover to be? Is there like a annual renters agreement? Yeah. So, we we we we do what we call long-term leases. The long-term leases are 12 months and up. we try to incentivize folks to sign lease for multiple years at a time. Some of the things that we do is that if you agree to stay here for 3 years at a time, you don't ever have to worry about rent increases. depending on where inflation might be, they might be standard 2 to 3% rent increases and tenants could avoid that if they rock in multiple years. but we rarely do anything under about 12 months. There are cases where we would do it, but they're one-off cases and there has to be like a really good reason for it. What's your what's your projection on going from zero to fully
leased? So, I'll give you an example. We just finished 12 units. now, it was it's a new construction, but it it it was a conversion of an existing building. We basically, you know, demoed it out to the shower, rebuilt it with a whole new different purpose. It was 12 units. we were, I would say we were fully done by the end of February and that's when we finalized all permits, closed everything out with the town. the entire apartment, we had leases in hand by the second week of March. folks were moving in obviously May, April, some in June. but because that house's the demand so strong everything that we put out there we had leases in hand within a few weeks.
Yeah. I think what I was thinking about is you know that this is new to Andover, right?
we have a we have a small school and it seems like it's likely that families will be moving in.
Sure. So we have to also just consider what that load is going to be on elementary making sure that it's probably stacked. So I might there might be a a transitional period there where trying to keep up with who's there.
Yeah.
And if they if people are signing longer term leases then they can judge how many teachers they need.
Absolutely.
Yeah. I think that's that's that's that's a great point and I think you know certainly we can we can sit down and get a little bit more granular and figure out you know what a launch strategy looks like you know what would be conducive to just the existing resources and the infrastructure that the town has that we may not necessarily have a direct burden to provide and and what the town can accommodate and and we're we're more than happy to kind of sit down and figure that out. obviously, you know, it's it's the the other side of it, which, you know, probably going to need a little bit more time to be able to sort of have have any tax related revenue accumulate to be able to sort of start deploying it in in various other areas to to start expanding capacity for saving the schools to to assist. But we did do some estimates you know of of what that would look like in terms of the potential additional tax revenues that the town may be able to generate to help support with with all of that expansion as well.
Yeah. We just never done a scale.
We're not looking at four or five bedrooms. These are all two bedroomedroom.
Yeah. One and a half. One and a half. Yeah. Yes. but yes, to your point, you know, those those apartments, yes, in in a lot of the units that we have that are like that, there are families with it's either a couple or couple that may not have, you know, kids at home anymore or there's a lot of the in between, mostly toddlers. Yeah. So,
it's not a bad problem to have. They would heads up potential
60 to 80 kids coming in.
Yeah.
So, anyway, I
go ahead, John.
Yeah. No. So I and again this is this is getting what you know cart before the horse and not getting get out over our skis to mix metaphors there but yeah I was going to confirm these are all proposed at two-bedroom and and broadly speaking two-bedroom units tend to generate children for the school districts at a rate of about one kid per four or per five units or so. so you know, 80 80 new units would tend to average, you know, 15 to 20 kids. It's not, you know, it's not two kids per unit and you're not looking at hundreds. it really is, you know, three plus bedrooms where you start to to generate a lot of kids on on balance. And and again, broadly speaking, you know, Andover could use some some more kids.
That's nice to know. We probably probably need to move as long as this is just a concept discussion and and I appreciate it and you guys
did a great job. I don't I'm going to be the Debbie Downer.
some things you're going to have to consider in the master plan for for all this
you passed our fire right there.
Thank you.
And we have no municipal water and no sewer. Yeah. I suspect your plan is going to change maybe rather dramatic dramatically based upon the engineering and the soil.
Yeah.
And you know the approvals that you'll need to get for septic disposal
of waters. You probably going to do shared wells for for the buildings and stuff. That's probably not going to be a huge issue.
but that's something you you're going to need to to consider. one one question worst case of that.
Yeah. One question I had. Have you done a project of this scale before?
Not the specific scale. No, but at the reduced level and the bite-sized approach. Yes.
Okay. All right. It's just curious.
Yeah.
anyway, that was that was my big thing. And if you look back on the on the original Rosewood Acres subdivision, there was, you know, they had to do a sistern for it.
But this is going to take considerably more than than that,
right?
And they're going to have to work with the fire marshal and those guys on
stuff.
It's either system or fire suppression for each unit. And so we don't what the rules are. We just say to the
Yeah. And Wayne, if you don't mind, I'll reach out for a contacted fire marshal because we have some questions around, you know, is a sprinkler going to be required or and just all of those questions, we'll reach out to them. I think, you know, for us, the most important thing is is is you know, we're talking very large substantial capital to just even do like per tax. And the other thing is in in our regulations, and I don't know how that applies to a a mixed use floating zone, we have requirements for open space
in subdivisions. And the previous subdivision used a provision for I guess their way out of that
disclaimer. Be open space.
Yeah. a fee in Louisville open space. So that that's just something else.
Yeah. So we're we're looking, you know, there's going to be preservation of natural woodland edges. a lot of them are already done by the datam engineering folks and we would be looking to build
but the preservation open space means actually deeding that land over to the town or some conservation organization or something like that
or fee in L of open space. Yeah, I think throughout phase one there's about seven acres of natural land and sort of reinforces the annual character during that period.
But I there again, we're still in the infant stages here. I I don't want to
I just want to plant that seed.
Absolutely. Absolutely. That's all I'm trying to get.
Yeah. Thank you. so, you know, I I I in the interest of time, I just want to say thank you all for just listening. we just wanted the indication that if we went ahead and pursued this from a 10,000 foot view, at least we have the support of the commission. Obviously, you know, no approvals here to say go ahead and do this, but we just wanted to know we'll make sure that we have alignment to go down this path. but please, you know, keep me honest and and it sounds like we do. And so, we'll we'll keep chipping away and keep engaging through John and Wayne.
Biggest thing we've had going on in the last 10 years is our dollar general. You're probably not the only one. You're not you're probably not the only town allowing
and and I would offer this to the commission. We talked about the six corridor and how this
fits into that because it has frontage on Route Six,
right? Yeah,
the commission wants to consider
adding that little short section of Route 87,
little words.
because you're going to have to do a traffic study and it seems to me not being a traffic engineer, but having stuff directed to come out on 87 at the traffic light would be
Yeah, that'd be great.
Yeah.
Would be. or business coming out on an old corner that I do. It's probably that residential road coming out,
right?
It's probably not I don't think that was ever approved acres.
Yeah. So the a road going directly from the retail building to the culdeac, not roots.
Oh, that's that wasn't never
Yeah,
that was never key. Right. But yeah, you can do in your master plan. I mean, you could you know, widen and repave bling squares. That on the roof six there.
Yeah. Yeah. To lot one where
Yeah, there was because DOT did say something about a historical marker or something that's down there that they wanted the curb cut moved or something like that in the original proposal. Yeah,
I got I got one more question about the previous approval when this this was approved for Rosewood Acres. Does anybody know if there's a DWT file, AutoCAD file?
We do not have an electronic.
I don't think I don't think the town would have that. We would have to reach out to I Well, it whoever whoever Keith Grimmaldi had used. Yeah, we have a scan of
Okay, so we'll take just a we'll take that.
You're welcome to It's public record and just buy it.
No worries.
Awesome. any any other questions? Any further questions, comments?
No, I I I'm excited. I mean, this is something. I I I like I said, I suspect the final whatever
the site Yeah, the site plan will be will be a lot detailed. Yes.
Might be different than
Yeah, there's a lot of different topographies there. There's a lot of wetlands, intermittent stream.
Yeah,
that all have to work into this.
Absolutely.
The septics and the wells, you know, you're putting 20 bedrooms on Yeah.
one lawn. Yeah. That's a lot of subject. There's a lot of wealth. Yeah,
absolutely.
And then the whole how how's that all going to be maintained in perpetuity and stuff like that is is going to be a concern because I know there's a lot of leaps and
Yeah. Well, yes.
Well, you guys can do it.
Yeah. Which is I mean with with your support, we are extremely confident that we can execute on this.
Yeah. Awesome.
Thank you, John. Thanks a lot, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you guys.
All right. Have a good night, guys. Have a good night.
Up next is Jessica Chap this time. I own the 32 apartments on Kingsley Drive. We have four buildings and each building has eight apartments. Ideally, we I would like to add on possibly as many as 32 more apartments three buildings or four buildings, whatever that looks like from the site plan. The yellow building in the attachment is a really good idea of the concept because what we have now is garden style onebedroom, one bath apartments. That is that just is what Andover needs more of. We know this. I've owned this for 24 years. I barely turn three apartments a year and often have a waiting list more than 6 months long. It's very much the norm there. So the idea is to continue to have one-bedroom apartments, possibly bigger to kind of help out our couples. the apartments I now they're about 650 660 square feet would be looking more around 800 or so give or take. So the property that I own in Willington is kind of an ideal blend because it has both garden units and ranch units. So with the ranch units, this would be very ideal for our seniors. I very often get calls for seniors and I only have one building that does
not have stairs that only has two first floor apartments. So, the chances of them ever getting in are very low. so the idea of the ranch units. This particular building, believe it or not, has two ranch units at the end. But depending what the site plan would allow, we could have either one ranch unit at the end or two. And that would definitely help the affordable housing situation in Andover.
I like your idea for a laundry room, too.
Yeah. I mean,
I lived at your apartments. And one thing I did like was that you kept it wellmaintained and your your rental agreement was nice and strong. You know, it keeps people in line.
It does not scratch the place.
Well, and that's
that's key, you know.
It is. Yeah. And I think I think there if really anyone gave any push back, let's be honest, how often the policeman,
you know, the fire department, we just we're so set back in the road. We mind our business. We don't cause any trouble. I'm saying we collectively, it's a community. It's just a really beautiful property and, you know, everyone can benefit. And I'd love to keep some of my couples around longer and I think that would help a lot too.
Would you be
Well, I think this is this is a time to ask too. Would you be open to an over 55 community?
So, I don't know if I could blend that because the idea is that I own all 24 acres. So it would come down to how we make the existing property conform,
right?
I would definitely be open to it. Point me in that direction if not there somewhere else in town. I mean I have 34 experience 34 years experience total. 24 years on my own owning. So I've done remodeling flip houses. done some pretty serious renovations as a whole. one step away from knocking buildings down, building them back up. Actually, one place we did. and I'm just I mean, it's what I do. I'm open to a lot of possibilities.
So, you're proposing to add apartments to
Yes. where the stars are.
Stars, not necessarily one or not necessarily each star is one building, but possibly here or there, you know, just kind of based around my idea of the
on the existing lot.
Yeah.
And those are the best ways to to share the driveway. The map does show that it's connected, but it's really not. This building has its own entrance off of Wales Road. Yep.
And then this driveway ends here. So just thinking, you know, the least amount of infrastructure still offering the most amount of privacy because I want to stay very true to what Whispering Hills is.
And that's why, you know, the idea of the Willington property just really fits because they're garden style anyway. They're just neat and tidy buildings.
Okay. So on this is this one, two, three, four, five units or is there zero?
No. So here, so see the green door here.
Yep.
Two apartments on the first floor. Two on the second.
So that's 4, 8, 12, and 14.
There's two. So there's one entrance here.
Y
and then on this side here, there's another entrance on each.
Okay. So,
so believe it or not, you know, those are two 800 foot apartments. So, that might look a little different to Andover, you know,
bigger than what you got there,
bigger or best use of the land to get the idea of the ranches. I really want that for our seniors. You have
I'm all for this. It's a great idea. Nobody even knows that art exists down there.
Unfortunately, exist may require some zoning, some text amendment regarding,
you know, the regulations that allowed for these these were done in what
67 regulations that that allow for these to be built have been repealed. my thought would be, you know, that would come under the 830G statute.
Yeah.
And nothing says it has to be adversarial. You know, we can work with the town, make it win-win. It would require you to have deed restricted affordable units, but I think that's the price you're at anyhow. That probably no big concern. But that allows you to do outside of what our zoning regulations would would currently allow, which you know what you just heard being on Route Six, they got into a special thing that wouldn't be applicable where you are, but that doesn't retail there.
No, thank you. No, it's
but as long as you can make the the septic and the water and and all that,
right,
you come in with that 830G thing, I think. John, what are your thoughts?
Yeah. So, yeah, so we we we met out on site. I met with the the owner a couple of weeks ago and and you know, Cards on the Table, I think it's an outstanding idea because it's a really, you know, a terrific development that again is is basically wholly additive to the town. It really doesn't detract in any way because you can't really see it or know anybody's down there. so it's a a really nice spot and a nice level of development, but as as Wayne said, the regulations that allowed it to be created don't exist anymore. And so it's in that in that way non-conforming and she would need a variance to expand in any way or a text change or to get to the bottom line as you said Jed to go 830G which is which is without question the easiest path forward from a application administration perspective right now. it it really is just a matter of and and we we talked a little bit when we were out on site about the rents she's receiving right now and what that is relative to affordability levels. And you know again back of the back of the envelope it it seems like most of the units that she's renting would qualify as affordable housing if they were just restricted that way. But they're obviously market units and and you're you know you're free to increase your rent whenever you want. and this would just, you know, restrict your ability to do that on on 30% of the of the units. But if the numbers work, I think 830G is a fantastic path forward for a project like this. It just we would just need to
work out those those numbers. Otherwise, if if that didn't work, then the commission would have to look at adjusting its regulations in terms of in terms of multif family. But one of the things that you know I would prefer to not change the regulations is because I want to bring the deed restricted affordability to handover and this gives us the tool to force that to have this kind of thing which I think is great. You know, I I like everything about it, but the thing that would be disappointing to me about the the one we listened to before is we have no means, if you will, to require a certain percentage to be affordable. I don't know if we can make that work or not, but the fact that, you know, an 830G proposal came to Andover, we're going to we work with it. That's a huge win for the town. Just, you know, and I I guess the other thing that John, you probably got a feel. I keep hearing all this money being granted to people working on affordable housing things. Is there anything that, you know, Jessica could use to help her out?
Yeah. I mean there there are there are currently there are currently tax credit programs that that would you know there are 4% tax credits and 9% tax credits through CHFA which can help the the bigger pot of money that was sort of promised by the governor and the legislature that that accompanies this you know these affordable housing mandates that that the the legislature passed in November. that pot of money hasn't been created yet. So, it's going to take I would say a couple of years before that financing becomes available and it'll be available on a competitive process. what I can promise you and again this is this is a couple of years down the the road is that I happen to chair the state council on housing development that is going to oversee the expenditure of these grant funds once they become available. And I can promise you that I will advocate
for small town projects such as this to be properly, you know, supported. but again, that that program has not been created yet. So, you know, there there are funding opportunities. The big money hasn't hap hasn't really become available yet. But again, you know, Jessica, your your your business model is essentially you run these things as affordable housing without the deed restriction. So, you know, the hope is if we can keep construction costs relatively under control, you could keep this rolling. But, you know, that's I'm I'm you know, I I I don't hold your purse. Well, I mean, technically all 32 apartments now fall within the affordable housing, and that's due to the square footage. residents who have just lived there so long, especially local. They're not getting raises as often as, you know, some corporate people. we have a lot of retirees. So, we offer that now. So I the property can be run like that. Obviously the infrastructure is my game changer. Moving ahead. Any grants with that would help me continue to keep everything affordable. But it's easily manageable, especially if we're using the land wisely and we're sharing the wells properly, sharing the septic properly. just adding on to the existing driveway, not clearing the whole property and you know all kinds of driveways everywhere.
That's one of the funny things about affordable housing is even though it's affordable,
it doesn't count.
What do you mean?
Listen, you just market market rate affordable unrestricted affordable
there. So it even though in you know I love a very it's an affordable town you know none of it counts.
We'll work on that.
Yeah.
We'll work on that.
And so that's why
project this project coming in under that you know can can really help the town out. They can help you out too if it's the wheel for everybody. Everybody seems on the same page with what it needs, wants,
you know, and how we want to maintain the look and feel.
So, I love that about this project, too.
Good project. Personally like the back porch idea, too.
That we'll see about that.
Not opposed to it again, like if the land allows.
Right. Right.
You know, it's certainly an interesting piece of land. I'm not looking to do a lot of excavating because I love how it is now. So, we just really want to utilize it in that way.
Oh, and how about I know that some of your units have one car garage space.
Are you planning on continuing that or just maybe not with these?
That's going to be a big engineer question.
Okay. Because say for instance near building 41, I could potentially see a driveway being very easy to turn into to get into garages. but again, that's that's definitely going to be an engineer question, but it is on my list of questions.
You know, they don't want to be cleaning off their cars. We we do it for them anyway, but they feel bad asking. So they have their own garages, they'd be happy.
So and and I have the same I I would say the same thing. because since 19 since the 60s, we now have the fire suppression regulations that you're going to have to consider. And
all conversations have been favorable for that. the gentleman who takes care of my well system because I am a public water supply. He's been out. We've discussed that with
I know you can you can manage manage that. Yeah.
But the fire suppression I think is probably new to your complex.
It would be.
Yeah.
Do you know like
you got you don't know any numbers like how many units it starts to be required in? I'm not even gonna go there. Talk to the fire marshal.
Yeah,
but she can get a hold in.
Good guy.
Yeah, his number is on the website somewhere. Yeah,
I actually have it.
You have it?
It's Andover,
right?
I'm sure he's I'm sure.
No, no, no.
He's got to go up there and do inspections and stuff anyway.
Sure. Yeah,
this would be a great thing for him to
I agree.
Just maybe you can use them again.
Okay.
Yeah, I'll give you one back. I'm going to keep going.
So there I think you be looking for master plan. I'm looking at JL for this.
Oh yeah, you know it's going to have public hearing effect.
but the beauty of the G is unless we can
say that you know there's something unsafe or there's a couple other but you keep seeing in the newspapers
that's why I brought that up that you have to address
and then I guess safely is really the big thing
you know traffic fire dramatic all that are going to ask about one man.
Maybe one Stanford or something front page of the Sunday paper at the
Oh, it's east this time. Yeah. that being taken to court by the developer because they are moving the 830 gene and simply don't ask that. Yeah.
So
yeah, I mean obviously who lives there, my insurance has certain requirements because we don't have a fire hydra in town. So you know that all goes into it. My agent just so happens to be a fire chief. So I feel like I get excellent advice. Excellent advice.
Where are you building apartments in Wellington?
Deepo Road.
Okay.
Right behind this.
I'm originally from
Yeah. I'm across from the condos.
Nice. P. So pretty there. Very quiet. Just like Andover,
There'll be lots of questions when the plan comes. I'll
do my best to have them prepared. Thank you.
No, thank you.
Thank you. Moving along to correspondence.
In the interest of time, you guys dealt with the correspondence. Okay. The Rosewood Acres. I don't have any other correspondence. Okay. Any commission discussion? Anyone online?
I have a question.
Go ahead.
back to the the vacancy. Wayne, what date did you say you and the town clerk came up with next month?
May 18th. So it looks like that falls the day before our May meeting.
So if we go beyond 60 days, it according to the charter, it appears to defer to the board of selectmen.
I imagine the selectman would go along if we had a recommended candidate then, but I'm just pointing out that it looks like we'd be one day past the 18th. I'll be honest with you. I'm not too worried about the board of select management. I think as long as we're doing something, they're they're not going to worry too much about it. What about
filling the vacancy?
No, we we said in our last meeting, you know, I brought it up and then you're supposed to do it with Matt.
Yeah. I did it.
Is it all done?
No, it's not done. But we're waiting. The closing was is the closing for letters of interest is May 18th.
Oh yeah, for that. But what about the agent agent? I thought Oh, what was agent? Yeah.
Oh,
we're supposed to act by the 18th.
We're talking two different things. They are. Yeah. Are you talking about the vacancy on the planning and zoning commission? Correct. Yes.
Okay.
But hopefully we can address that at the next meeting.
Yeah. As soon as you get it get it done and bring it to selection. You're not going to worry about it there.
Yeah. We're just going to go with we have two two interested parties to date. if anybody else is interested, if if just invite them to the meeting on the 19th, then you guys can interview them. Does that sound reasonable?
Yep. Sounds good.
Okay.
Yes. I'm just pointing out that if you're saying that May 18th is the 60th day after the notice to the town clerk, then if we go to the 61st day, I mean, we would be over that. I'm you know I imagine as I started to say that the select men would go along with whatever we wanted to do as long as we didn't go into the summer or something. But I'm just pointing out that the time frame from if the May 18th is 60 days from the date that you agreed on after the notice to the town clerk that we would just be at the 61st day. It's probably not going to be an issue. When Scott's telling us
that he doesn't think it's going to be an issue,
I I don't think it would be an issue at all.
Okay.
as far as the wetlands is concerned, we talked about that at our last meeting,
right? and said that you and Matt can
Yeah, we collaborate and get that the guy
we I'm trying to think if we we've been collaborating. I'm trying to think if we got that announcement out yet. I don't think we have. I sent words to Kate. I haven't talked to our new guy yet.
that's Matt.
Yeah. I just introduced myself from yesterday. So,
right.
So, when you get a second, you go up and talk to him. Now, you got to go ahead
to get that going.
Announce it. get some candidates for the right I talked to Duncan
because I I think it's it's somebody from the wetlands commission or somebody from the board of selectment and some third person to do interviews right and Duncan was okay with with that manager should be on the interview Yeah. Okay. Then that'll be a third person then.
That's what we did in the past, right?
Yeah.
And that's it. There is a a discussion group that Joe was part of and I'm now reading their emails. I can post something to that discussion group. A group of of planners and wetlands types and stuff like that. You're probably part of it too, John. I think I've seen the Yukon at Yukon discussion group.
Oh, the lister.
The lister.
Yeah, sure. There's a planners list where where these things can be posted. Yeah. And and I'd be happy to help you spread the word on that. I I will note and not not speaking for her, but Colombia Colombia's wetlands officer Savannah Kitchen, she's the zoning and wetlands officer in Colombia. I think would be interested in helping. she lives in Colchester, lives nearby. She loves she loves wetlands work.
So that that that could be an option on on an interim basis or or someone that that might be interested in the in the gig.
I met her I met her at the Casio.
Okay.
Was there any discussion about asking Jim Belly to come back temporarily?
No. As a wetland agent?
Yeah. He usually
Oh, they can do that. But no, it hasn't been I will reach out to J.
Okay.
But then we need approval to pay him from somebody.
Yeah, I'm sure you
Well, I mean, presumably there's a presumably there's a there's a wetlands staff line item in the budget.
There is. Yeah, but I think he has to do something to bust that old
and maybe he doesn't want to do it. I don't know. Yeah,
great Jim back to the office a little bit. occasionally. Yeah. He seems to be enjoying himself. Really?
Yes. Yes, he is. Yep.
Okay. Next.
All right. So, that was so that Well, is that your administrative report?
Sure. That's my administrative report.
Okay.
Oh, go ahead. Sorry. I've been out on a few blight complaints recently. and hopefully the worst one on Hutcherson Road has been taken care of. I teamed up with the health department on that one.
How about the Zolola Road?
I've been out there. I haven't been back to see if he got rid of the junk like he said he was going through. So, I walked up there the other day and he's got one of these big temporary structures in front of his garage. I think he put two trailers in, but
well, that he actually had a structure there that got smooshed in the snow.
Well, he's got this huge work. Well, you know, the book's cleaned up a little bit, but he's still got stuff.
He has curious.
He has had his the he has Hellstrom. Hellstrom's been out there. It's all marked, but the flags and stuff,
you know, to do a site plan
are out there. I've seen them. I saw those. So, he's moving slowly. And he did file income. Okay.
He did. I I missed it. He filed it back in December.
Okay. Good.
So,
so on Wales Road, it's the same house.
Wales.
No.
Biza.
Bizola. But you said Wales also, right?
No, I didn't.
There's another lake.
No. Hutchinson.
Oh, Hudson.
Hutchinson. But that one, like I said, that one I the health department. I I teamed up with the health department on that one and hopefully it's been a baby. She was moving stuff cleaning up. I haven't been back to see how much she got done. So for the inland wetland report, you know, it was kind of So we were working on the plan for the bridge over on the Zola road. And you know, it dawned on me that I'm not sure that we should be we, the inland wetlands, be reviewing and acting on a plan that hasn't been reviewed by a wetlands agent. And so that got me to be looking back at the previous bridge on Longill and I don't ever So we authorized Joe to act on that plan after it ran the his decision ran in the paper for two weeks and they could go ahead and I don't ever recall that that guy put the But it could have been. But so hopefully we're working on
a a wetland agent would certainly help.
Yeah, I mentioned that John. Yeah,
but that's all I got.
Well, thank you.
You're next on the agenda here.
Oh, me?
Yes, sir.
Okay. so is it So, yeah, actually a lot of discussions this month have have involved a lot of the multif family stuff. Again, we met with Jessica out on site and and had a lot of phone calls and emails back and forth with Leslie and his crew about the Linhome Corner property. So, excited to to to, you know, try to help these properties, these projects move forward. so I understand Matt Matt is Matt Streer. He's the new town administrator. He's on board. Okay. So, just following up, some of our conversation. Mr. chair. Patrick, I it's would be important to sit down with Matt, introduce myself, and and kind of talk about moving forward into the future because, you know, a new budget cycle is coming up. You know, my my major task with this commission was,
you know, to to assist with grants and primarily with the PC, which is now, you know, on the books. and so we have to figure out how I can continue to help the town if if that's in the cards. So, I if you know I'll I'll work at getting an appointment with yourself, Patrick, and and the new town manager and see how see how we can work together moving forward. But, I think there's a lot there's a lot to be done and I'd like to be part of it.
At the at the budget hearings, I sold you as a you're going to be working on the affordable housing.
Okay.
Y and economic development
and economic
Yes. And we had our economic development meeting last night and we also would request your assistance going forward.
It looked to me that in the budget was the same amount
still in the budget. Yeah.
Still in the budget long you're budgeted
for now. Keep it that way.
Well, a consultant is budgeted. Hopefully, it's still me.
Correct. Yeah, you are.
Go for it.
And I haven't got a response from the new U town administrator, but I'll I'll follow up on that too, John.
Okay.
Great.
Thank you. anything else, John?
no, nothing for I mean I I I'm tracking the the affordable housing legislation and how it rolls out through the through the region, through the COG. and there's nothing there's nothing major to report at this point. So, I I you know, we're we're okay.
Okay. Thank you. But John, asked the lady in Colombia for if she can help us with the wetlands in a short term.
Yeah, I think I think she'd be she'd be more than happy to try to try to help. It's just a question of who who specifically to put her in touch with.
Wayne.
Okay. Yeah, I can. Wayne, I'll put you and Savannah on an email chain together.
Yeah. Okay. If you need anything, just call me, you know, question.
All right. Moving on to public speak. Okay. Next, unless there's anybody else has anything talk about that's not on the agenda.
Moving on to approval of minutes.
You are unmuted. discussion.
Got a couple comments on minutes. Okay. The so under public present we should include Thomas Tur, Elizabeth Pollson because they were here presenting their plan. And then down on the bottom paragraph that starts out guiding principles when we're talking about POC it's the guiding principles include quality of life housing opportunities and then the next word is conversation and I thought it might be conservation although the next word is conservation as well. So, but but it was a conversation. I'm confident of that.
Problem is just get rid of one.
And then on page three under the old business, the last sentence under POC, item B, it said reviewed Andover Elementary School enrollment date. I think that should be dead.
That was all.
Could this be conservation? All the life I have to conservation and see there then conservation mapping.
Yeah, it could be. Yeah. Yeah.
So there should be a comma there. Maybe conservation and conservation mapping possibly. Is there a motion going into the minutes? anybody else have any comments?
Make a motion to amend the as discussed. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as amended. I'll second that. Any further discussion? Oh, thought you had something to say. Sorry. Be ready to vote. She's ready to vote. All right. let's take a vote of the approval of minutes. Go ahead, Liam. me.
Yeah.
J I Scott I Henry
I am going to abstain because I was not at the meeting.
Okay. And I go I so motion passes 41.
Next regular schedule meeting May 19th and that's going to be a great meeting. Just tell our Make a motion to adjourn. I'll make a motion we
I
thank you everybody for your time.