all right this is the June 18th 2024 meeting of the town of Andover Charter revision commission called to order at 6:05 PM we have present myself jod gross Carol Lee Patricia Bings Jeff Maguire and Adrien mandaville we have one member of the public who's on phone and muted could you please unmute and identify yourself for the [Music] record hi this is Shannon lden thank you Shannon all right that takes us to item two on the agenda which is public speak attorney Lowden do you have anything to say to contribute the only thing I want to say is I believe you're talking this evening about the position of the town clerk being either elected or appointed and my two senses to continue to have it to be an elected position I think that's very important so that more people get a say in the decision rather than leading it up to a few people who might have a beef or be disgruntled with a particular town clerk I'm not speaking about Carol so that there are more people who have a say in who our town clerk is going to be and it's a very important decision in our town thanks and thank you very much for your work thank you for your input if there's no other public speak any of the members of the commission want to enter public speak or not if not then we will move on to item three which is approval of minutes do we have any new minutes to approve approve haven't seen anything Carol you got to unmute from last week on Jody sent us from last week yeah I did I sent them
out right after the meeting right after yes okay let me just bring up my copy of that then moment right there we go let me know if it'd be easier if I pulled it up and just thumb through it quick for this committee well you could why don't you do that okay let me just 611 and I'll share screen share [Music] and okay put this to the side the Mac for my friend Adrian over there basically we had everyone but Adrian unfortunately couldn't join us started at 604 we approved the minutes from the prior three meetings and the special meeting it's public speak not public Peak thank you we go spelling wasn't part of this job description I guess well Peak is a word so it passes the spell test didn't pick me up we had discussion and action on a charter review issues Jeff really provided us some language right before the meeting and Carol suggested adding some language to what Jeff had or in conjunction with it that Hein has to to put an item into town on a town referendum if there's some sort of petition or stay if petitioned to referendum then ordinance would stay to that referendum to the next town election and so Jeff was going to rework some language and send around to the committee Item B was around
referendum voting and again trying to have some alignment with the Board of Ed and budget timing with Hein Carol would need to move up up the dates Carol verbally walked through some modifications and we'll send around to the committee which I think she did she kind of had yellow and red different denoting different sort of modifications we had some discussion on not having a first selectman but instead more of a chairperson or they would still be first Selectmen but how I interpreted it at the time it would be really the the concept here is they would be appointed from the board of Selectmen as the first Selectmen like the Board of Education and board of Finance Bob shared language to the Charter to make this modification in line with moving forward from an elected to an appointed first selectman got it so that's really that was the key we didn't there was no motion or anything on that one increased the number of candidates Allowed by the board of Selectmen the prior meeting I had given some information on that discussion on removing the limit of the number of individuals on the party we discussed the possibility of changing the number of people an individual could vote for and then I wrote a note hold this issue until of first selectman or chairperson concept appointed by the board itself resolved Town Clark position and this new trigger for Town referendum we didn't go for we didn't we didn't really get into because Adrian wasn't there public speak we had and then Jeff and Bob adjourned so those
were essentially the minutes the only thing I wanted to ask is about putting in that paragraph that I had well that sentence that I suggested for Section 10008 the review and Amendment of the charter giving us minimum amount of time for doing that I know we tossed it back and forth yeah so you I yeah I think you brought that up in public speak which was a great idea so you're suggesting that we consider that as a new item is that what you're saying right so you know if that were included in the in the minute so I'm just asking that that be added to minut let me jump in here I mean yeah we mentioned that we kicked it around considerably during public speak and then we said okay we're going to circle
around and put this in in the discussion and possible action line item and then we never did so Bob to that end actually because I was working on the percent to referendum and automatic referendum vote stuff and I also know there was some discussion pre pre previously regarding you know minor minor ordinances major ordinances and emergency ordinances I included I just sent everybody a document that has it has the how it's handled in in a couple other towns mostly though that's that's a Hein document and how they their wording is much much cleaner than our Charter is regarding sending something to you know petitioning as well as how the how the ordinance is held you know how you how you trigger their meeting and also emergency ordinances so I would I would think we we might want to actually just consider literally copying pasting that into our section because it's way okay Rec we I'd recommend we we adop we
we motion to accept these minutes and and add Carol's item as a sort of to this block of business is sort of part of new business yeah you're echoing what I was about to say you just jumped in before I could and the same thing Adrian so yeah let's let's get the the minutes out of the way and then go to the next item where we can accommodate these things so are there any other can you I guess you don't need to bring the minutes back onto the screen are there any other discussions contributions changes revisions that anybody sees necessary in the minutes omebody want to make a motion to accept them I'll make a motion to accept with the one month not right last comments section I'm sorry I'll make the motion to approve the minutes with adding making that one correction adding that sentence that I we discussed last week for adding to section 10008 under the public speak under the public right right okay I'll second that any further discussion yes then why not sit there and put everybody in public speak I I'm just saying Carol I mean just from a simple standpoint I know you brought it up in public speak but is that the only part of public speak we're going to put in the minutes bring the minutes back no no no no no no we don't have to I'm just making a comment there's no other issues on public speak in the minutes no I I just thought we discussed it after public speak when we were in our meeting part no we discussed it in public speak I I think Jeff perhaps the only reason to memorialize it is because it was significant enough that we spent
10 or 15 minutes kicking that one idea around and it seems like something that is now migrating into the general agenda so it seems substantial enough put it in if we had an agenda we would make an addition to bring it up into new business and sit there and say I mean I know we have an agenda but we don't have any items on it we don't have addition deletions it's probably a special meeting Carol I don't know but it's fine just approve the minutes and with Carol's addition but I'm just saying if I'm someone like Shan and I spoke in public speak and you're not putting anything else in public speak I would be semi concerned and it would be problematic to me so let's just vote okay all those in favor I any opposed okay Carri 600 Z abstain I wasn't here okay Carol from an administrative perspective can you add that sentence to the document I sent and then publish good thank you all right so let's go on to the catchall agenda item discussion and possible action upon any Charter revision issue before we get into some of the details I just wanted to
kind of confer with everybody where are we Visa the schedule for getting this all done I know at the first meeting we talked about how the schedule seemed pretty tight we only had a certain number of meetings we needed to get this presented we needed to get a draft over to the board of Selectmen before a certain amount of time there was some discussion about going back to the board of Selectmen and extending the schedule was that ever done Jeff yes we extended it out for an extra two weeks or little more than two weeks so it's about the 22nd of July 22nd of July is when we need to get the the draft so well the hope is that we get the draft to them a lot sooner than this I mean the issue that I look at is we've had issues with the town attorney the town attorney is not present at our meeting he's got some personal issues he's dealing with but hopefully what we can do is just address all the items get
the the details laid out and then provide it back to him so that he can sit there and do the legal e for us and then hand it back to everybody so that we can read it at Future meetings and move on quickly so sooner is better correct okay thank you anybody else any have any questions about that we mentioned the public speak because I had made a note to myself that we should come back to that just again touching base on things Carol and I still need to get together on the formalized itemized list of of what the items are and so maybe early next week we can do that and at some point we're going to take all of the each member's changes and incorporate them into a single document obviously right now we've got a lot of things floating around and I guess that's that's something that Carol and I will be looking at
also all right those that's just some bookkeeping things that I had made notes of that brings us to the things that we didn't talk about last week are Adrian's things Adrien we're grateful to have you back there were two items that you had volunteer to look at the the town clerk position and the supplemental appropriation amount so take it away in any order that you want yeah so actually on my notes I had that I had three percentage of referendum to automatically percentage of budget to automatically go to referendum dollar amount or percentage for referendum you know for people discussing it you know sorry petitioned and the and the town clerk language so basically I'll get the I think the easiest one get off the table as the town clor language and you know again I I have looked at this in most towns you know contrary to to what our public speak most towns are going to an appointed position for a variety of reasons it's just it it's become such a a busy position in a in a professional position it really it's really where it belongs you would not
want to elect someone and then give them four years and to to learn the position and then you they start over someone someone else could then come in and start it over so at any rate it really is a non-political position so I looked at the language in four different Chargers and what I'm finding is that most folks do not reference State statues directly because there are so many of them they generally now are with an appointed position they have some sort of transition language if it was recent so I put in some transition language there for us which basically says that you know the that whoever is the elected town clerk when this transition happens if they're still in the position when the next the end of their term comes they would then become the appointed town clerk if they so choose and otherwise they would the town would follow the procedures that are set for forth by Statute to you know to to notify the secretary of state that they're going to appoint someone and then go through the process of hiring now in our in our current Town Charter we already have a section section o which was reserved for the town clerk's
position it were it to become an A A A Town employee position so I gave you language to put into that section and basically it just copied the other positions that are protected in the charter currently that the board of Select would appoint a town clerk have all the duties and Powers conferred by concut Statute the appointment will come from the highest candidate chosen on the basis of comp competitive examination office would have a permanent status the officer shall be compensated on a salary basis only town clerk will be a town employee subject to all rules and Provisions Personnel polities removal of town clerk must be for Just Cause And it must be confirmed by a four fist vote 80% of the entire Bo of selectman and that Maks the policies we already have in the charter
for other positions our Charter and you know really most other Town Charters really don't even address it at this point through various revisions you know Columbia heurn is is going through the process again now so I borrowed some of their language for the transition language but most of the other Town Charters do not even really adjust it just saying that it's in a it's in a all pointed position that's it so questions on that I would put forward a motion that we move to have our town clerk appointed and following I haven't reviewed the language but the general concept I think is to have an appointed town discussion so the assumption is that the language or the the bullet points Adrian that you're addressing are going to be addressed by the town attorney and the language specified out so everybody is clear with what we're talking about I actually sent everyone should have in their email the language but yes it is I I sent it out just as the meeting was starting I I apologize and I will say if anyone feels the need to edit I sent it as a word doc unfortunately my my my abilities to edit have been greatly reduced I mostly have to use
a a voice a voice detex type program right now so it's I haven't quite figured out how to edit really well with it so any helps appreciate if somebody feels the need but I I basically followed our town Charter and just you know addressed it the same literally cut and paste language from what we already have and then filled in from other other Town stuff so what you're saying is you took the Town Administrator language and rolled it into no we have actually one in there for the assessor and a couple other positions that are that are mimic it mimics that language exactly as far as 702 702 yes thank you okay and we already had a section reserved for it 702 in its o section o at the very bottom of the document I sent I don't have the whole Charter open in front of me do we have for those other hired positions like the assessor and the Town Administrator do we have additional language on what has to happen to get rid of them I mean yeah I copied that exactly okay right removal okay for Just Cause yeah four fifths gotcha I just opened the document also yeah okay I apologize for the late it took me unfortunately a long time to put that together oh it's great that you had this okay so you're you're echoing the existing language for other hired positions yes hired administrative position yes yeah that's consistent any other question or discussions so we have a motion to accept this and seconded let's vote all in favor I I I I'm abstaining Carol's abstaining Adrian are you voting yes or no I I I yes yes all see I really think that as Sharon said have it open to the
public the elected offici all right so we have a vote of four one one one exstension one opposed four agreeing so the motion carries okay so that will be included in our list of items to move forward thank you Adrien and the other items I see are also in your document here yes yes so I I brought over some stuff on you know basically again Hein is much cleaner on how they address their hearings they basically use a 2% 2% electors as the requirement and then they have a you know they have a timeline I basically used that and then put in the timeline that we had all talked about at our on our previous meeting that I was at so but otherwise the document is is fairly fairly straightforward as far as it gives a a progression you know how do you trigger it you know how do you how do you trigger petition town meeting how do you you know how long does the ordinance hold over exactly all that is
addressed it's pretty pretty much what we had talked about they're just their language is cleaner and I put in I put in the totality of it because I felt like it just it's so much cleaner how it it play everything just it's very concise how it's noticed where it's noticed how long it's noticed for so I'm sorry what was that for referendum yes percentage percentage the sor the percentage to trigger to trigger a special petition to then go to a town meeting referendum so you're you're suggesting we follow hein's language and hein's percentage is that right I looked around and and most towns are kind of right at that 2% Mark so yes seems to be the consensus that 2% is the TR so Jeff you're muted hey ajan what time did you send out that email because I cannot find it I'm looking at Town email address I'm looking at my office business email address can't pull up that other screen right now someone look at the email address and just see if I'm included or I'm just before the meeting though yeah I got it at 604 okay so it's just sorry but I think you BCC because I don't see any other email addresses well I can you I tried to reply all I'm so sorry can you send it to me yeah I think you just sent it to me Adrian Bob is it possible for you to
report it to everybody it just for me to switch screens is sure that's fine and and listen I I had been looking at the the language on e as well and that language is acceptable to to to sit there and go forward as far as referendum goes because there's two different issues it's like what is the what is a special Mee or special town meeting going to be called for Adrian like what would it be called for so it can I mean technically it can be called for anything that is deemed appropriate within our so we you know I would have to go
through our Charter to find the section that references it specifically but it can be it can be purchase of town properties it can be it can be in this case repeal of an ordinance that was that was passed that they dis that the town folks May disagree with some Charters specifically list everything and some say have a a little bit more vagueness in it okay and the the reason why I was looking at that section especially for referendum was related to ordinance right or or ordinance is addressed in this specifically as a hold you know and then it and then if it goes to the it goes to a special meeting and it says that it has to pass by a certain percentage then it automatically is effective as of the the next day of the meeting okay I'll need to see it because from my end it's the reasons why and trying to avoid calling of special Town meetings and having the additional cost and
additional time required to sit there and get to those Town meetings and to maximize the number of residents that are participating so that was the goal that what you missed last week it released with the ordinance issue was to get it to a referendum so that the majority of the Town voters will participate right so okay should be hitting your inbox okay thank you Bob so so to that end I guess the two things that we probably should try to look at is does our Charter have Provisions specifically for what a town meeting has to has to or can be called for right yes and and it does and the goal and Carol will know more even than I do but what I'm sitting there after is if we the goal on my section the goal was the ordinances were drafted by the the board of Selectmen and then the referendums would be called strictly for the ordinances we have nothing Carol in our Charter related to referendum calling right now it's just special Town meetings right exactly so correct okay right so that actually is the third thing that you asked me to look at is automatic dollar Mount to going for referendum and that was was that going to referendum or going to town meeting because now we're confusing we got the whole we got the whole pod confused we already we already have we already have a provision
that a town meeting happens with a was it's like one half a percent or something so correct and we were looking at increasing that number so to 50,000 yeah that's still 1 half% of the number I it's not even 1 half% of the number so are we sticking at a half are we trying to say we're going to stick at half percent are we going to go 2% are we going to go to $100,000 I mean I would rather be a flat number than anything percentage wise because then people understand it yeah we had discussed we had discussed I mean I went back to the minutes that we had had previously from two meetings ago and that's what I but anyways I think that number should be you know that should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 from what I can see most towns most towns actually are just not doing the town meeting part of it they go straight to referendum on on on these things so they they give their Board of Finance more leeway to to do things on the lower end and then when it breaks a when it breaks a threshold they kick it you know they have a setle whether it's a half a percent or 1% where they automatically kick it to referendum they do not go to a town meeting they just go straight to referendum and they're done with it so just so I'm listen if you want to say $200,000 and you want to try to go at that that's fine I think the current number currently right and and I'm just going to do basic math for everybody and Carol
please correct me if I'm wrong it's it's the budget less Ram yes so it's some somewhere in the range of of $8 million and I'm just going to round the numbers because I always look at four four and four so $8 million times 0.005 is $40,000 right that's the current number as established it's a really incredibly low threshold so basically everything gets to town meeting at the budget for the most part and it's $440,000 so if the number is $200,000 that's that's 2.5% is that right am I right $8 eight million Bob 0025 $2,000 two and a half% hey I want to jump in here a second and completely take a r turn on this Adrian you're what you're submitting here is stuff that we covered three meetings ago and that we all agreed to move forward it was the it was the meeting that that Eric Anderson was here we talked about dollar amounts and percentage amounts 304a and B and and the notes that I have here what we wanted you to do was you had talked about that we needed a dollar amount for supplemental Appropriations that would trigger a referendum vote exactly not revisiting everything that Eric and I had already done so I'm a little confused what we're doing well Bob I don't remember voting
on what you and Eric had done so did we vote on that because I don't remember voting on any numbers any percentages any dollar we just discussed it so far we've just been discussing most every we haven't really voted on we voted on a couple things Carol just a cou I'm pretty sure that we voted on that yeah it was 50 Bob it was $50,000 is what you guys had put up yeah $50,000 well that was and the question was what's the number to trigger an automatic referendum and the answer I'm I'm giving you is 200,000 if you want a different number go for it no no that's okay I mean we didn't have any language as near is I understood to automatically trigger a referendum we I proposed I proposed a motion I proposed a motion it did not go and then you guys suggested that I should come up with a number that everyone could because we were kicking around different numbers and that was I guess the consensus that it wasn't clarified I should get some clarification so that's what I'm trying to put on the table now yeah where so we have a section in section 304 is special town meeting in section 304 we don't have we don't have one that skips and goes to referendum we do not got it so this is a sort of a fresh issue you're working on which is when does something go to referendum right it was two meetings ago when we were talking about the issues
that Bob were just discussing it was after Eric but it was amongst everyone that was here Eric was not Eric was not at that particular meeting okay then I'm I'm going to sit there and say that I'm I need some clarification because there are issues in our town meeting procedure as to percentages and dollar figures in the document actually just percentages there's no dollar figures can we vote on that because I would like to understand like I that's what I thought we were coming back to is any supplemental appropriation it's it's two 30 304b yeah that's for town meeting yeah to meeting and then and then I think we need to think about them in concert too right the notion of what goes to meeting what goes to referendum yeah right so I think it's I think it's it is sort of a collective issue what right you're saying Bob you changed it to what percent so at the meeting with thing but but we're talking about this I'm just saying I don't remember voting on anything like this we did because I've got a note of it it was okay what meeting date was it I would have captured the motion okay so let's Express 304b what what because Adrian we haven't eliminated the town meeting so if what would ever get to $200,000
if we set the the special town meeting supplemental appropriation at even 1% even 1% is not going to get to the $200,000 so I was bringing this up specifically and what started the back and forth is I you know I pointed out that the tractor passed you know by eight votes and that 76 people decided basically to spend nearly you know nearly a mill on a tractor and it's and I and I have a problem with that and I brought this up and you guys said well they come up with a number got it so your your suggest so it does make sense that one would be higher than the other right you're yes is sort of bringing it to in your thinking Adrian bringing it to town referendum is bringing it directly to everyone in a town when you you start spending a certain amount quick town you know the board of Selectmen can do up to whatever and then it goes to a town meeting might be the next threshold whether that's that 0.5 or Jeff is I think suggesting maybe something higher and then you were kind of saying 200,000 could be that's when everyone in the town should have a voice yes got it I mean a simple guy here but maybe up and and I'm just spitballing here you know maybe up to $100,000 would be appropriate for some wiggle room for the people we've elected
to do supplemental work and then and then anything over 200,000 you know anything over that 100,000 needs to go to a town meeting and then anything over 200 might need to go to the the referendum so on June 4th we did vote exactly for special Town meetings so a the issuance of bonds exceeding 50,000 B exceed exceeding 1% % we kept C we kept D and then e leases we put in a dollar amount of in excess of 50,000 f 0.25 which that is exactly the same as it currently right what did we say for B Carol 1% one yes okay so we got it we're 80,000 we upped it right we upped that one and then the application for any in kind we up that to 25,000 from the current 2500 and that was motion to modified was Adrian seconded by Jeff and carried unan go I'm I'm losing my mind yeah now I remember that that this was Bob and Eric they kind of redlined they brought it up they walked us through it the first thing that we covered Jeff you so five years from now when we see these dollar values are we going to be going what were those people thinking why aren't they doing percentages no I I I just think I mean I think it's just easier to do a round number so so people can read it and understand when it goes I see Pat you're not in your head that makes sense to you too real numbers unfortunately we didn't do that with the other one we did 1% but with Adrian suggesting what goes to a town referendum he's suggesting a flat dollar okay and and just so we're clear Adrien the the what we passed on the tractor
which you're upset about is a fiveyear commitment for 2 $50,000 it's not a $250,000 commitment at one time that's not is it an annual is it an annual commitment or is a long-term commitment no it's it's it's the same I would use the same language we're using for the other so for instance we have a we we agreed on language for you know grant money right so with grant money it's not you're shaking your head did we not agree on language no no no no I'm shaking my head over things in the back of my head I'm like going I need a I mean Bob we need a list of things that we did approve or not approve like a a running list I mean I'm just in my head gone there's a a few things Adrian that I'm not clear on in my mind like I understand what you're saying now I do understand what you're saying now I understand what Bob is saying now we're sitting saying town meeting to kind town meeting is 1% of anything over 1% for a supplemental appropriation right now would go to town meetings so that in essence is $80,000 and and what you're trying to sit there and say here is anything at that Maxes that is a total commitment of $200,000 for the town has to go to refer straight to referendum right no town meeting straight to referendum call to day okay supplemental unbudgeted right that's the exactly exactly you know Jeff how often are these like is this rare is this is it always it's just a qu dollar dollar
value a little more frequently it's not frequently but it one have we not done have we not done one almost every year name it go ahead I'm saying haven't we done one almost every year no Community Center tractor listen we Center tractor we did the tractor Bridge what are you talking about we didn't spend any money on the bridges bridg we originally we originally did actually have to commit money for funding because you have to put money in and then we ended up getting we ended up getting 100% Grant but that originally only the only the only the only legitimate supplemental appropriation is the tractor and and when I say supplemental I am talking a not an infrastructure issue that the town is really committed to it's it's something that we did that was an equipment issue that we had to sit there and go do right most of these Adrian and you will admit will come up during the budget cycle this one should come up a they should I agree they should so then the so what he suggest what Adrian suggesting doesn't sound like an undo burden we're not you know maybe once a year once every three years we might go
if something's needed in the town and the leadership goes gosh this didn't hit the budget cycle we need something it's a little bit of protection for the town outside the B outside the budget process where you know there there's some you know voice of the town if there's a higher dollar item right corre it went this indiv this one went to town meeting right went to town meeting it was a well attended town meeting and got voted in a different direction that Adrian is looking at I will tell you if I'm on that board I'm on the board I would never put that up for a supplemental the only reason this even went up Jody was because there was an opportunity to get a tractor that was sitting there that if we waited till past June we would never have gotten so that's the only reason so
so you're spending two and a half% of our budget without any voice from the no sorry you allowed the you had the Town come to a meeting and how many people in town attended 76 76 one of the better attended Town meetings I've seen yeah I mean I guess the concept of I mean I don't maybe it's $500,000 but there should be a concept where something big is gonna happen I don't know what the threshold is right you need more of the Town than than and I guess and I guess you know Jeff disagrees with me on this and that's fine but my issue is if the meeting was noticed it was on short notice but even once it was noticed there was no packet on the town website that had all the information you got it literally you got to pack it at the meeting because there was nothing available online there was no none of the competitive stuff that was given to the board of selectman was provided it wasn't even in the in the packets so people went to a meeting uninformed and made a decision based on what people said at a meeting and unfortunately are
well I'm not going to get into it Adrian those are legitimate concerns but they're really separate from what we're discussing here right now right but my point is there is a reason for having this and it's really just about getting giving the Town folk more of a participation okay I don't understand exactly so let me let me just play stupid here so by having the town meeting we I mean that was the way that the decision was made that's our legislative body and at the same time we were soliciting discussion and input so we could see how people in real time were were responding to this now if you're talking about for large dollar amounts going to referendum going to a vote is that going to be following a town meeting is it going to be following a hearing or is there going to be some vehicle for soliciting public feedback before we go to the referendum well the referendum is public feedback right the the just like on anything else it's one directional it's not interactive the way that you need a public hearing you would need a public hearing to discuss but the board of selectman has the public hearing on these things right so do the board of finance and then they send it to a town meeting you mean to referendum you're talking about SK no I'm saying currently currently we do that and then go to a town meeting right right that you would do that and go You' skip the town
meeting go straight for referendum and the reason is that a referendum if I'm correct Carol is open from what 8 AM to 800 PM or 6 AM to 8 6 AM to 8m we could change it noon to 800m so so in instead of town folks getting 5 days notice to show up at an in-person meeting at 7:00 on a Tuesday they can actually stop in throughout the day and at any point during that day after they drop their kids off at school before they bring their kids to soccer practice before they we have a lot of elderly folks that don't want to drive in the evening you know there's a lot of reasons for doing this and most of it are around participation that's all it is and they can also get apps and te belts so I do agree with Adrien giving the public more of a chance to voice their opinion they can they have referendums usually happen under three weeks notice but absentee
ballots are available so you have more of the voice of rather than limiting them to that one night you know couple hour meeting if they do have prior commit again A lot of times Adrian is correct isely short notice and this p one that we had the end of April was extremely short it's interesting Carol that you would use the the language giving the public a voice because I see the referendum by itself as less of a voice it's a one directional yes you can get more people involved but there's less of the the interactive that there is in the town meeting and that's why I was asking now before this town meeting was there a special hearing or did this just go there was nothing it just we just sent the notices out the week before on that Monday and then the meeting was falling right so you would need to have a public hearing before going to referendum you would not our Charter said that if the board of Selectmen or Board of Finance were looking for a supplemental appropriation and let's say that we use Adrian's 200,000 00 for the threshold if it was 250 then it would
automatically be forced to go to refence but if Bob if that's what you're looking for I can figure out language for that to say that you know for a dollar amounts over this amount we'll have a you know the board of Selectmen or Board of Finance the you know that that's asking for this would have to have a public hearing and then it would go directly to referendum once they they conclude that hearing I don't know that we're really achieving anything by doing that two-step process versus a public hearing versus a a a town meeting excuse me you know well you're definitely you're definitely accomplishing something you know you're accomplishing something I mean I have no problem with what Adrien is requesting what I'm trying to do is get the logistics of the numbers so if I have a 1% for a town meeting I have 40 I have I have $80,000 right and I'm just going to use that number so what Adrian is saying anything any supplemental appropriation between eight currently in our Charter the way our Charter $80,000 goes to town meeting anything in excess of referendum I don't have a problem with that and Bob I don't have a problem with saying before it goes a referendum you have to hold a public hearing put it in the document put it in the charter hold a public hearing before it goes a referendum and then let everybody vote on it if you choose to that that that's there's nothing wrong with what he's what Adrian is suggesting what I'm what I'm trying to do is what is the what are the numbers that we're talking about here so we're talking
$80,000 and and above goes to a town meeting anything between 80,000 and 199 goes to a town meeting anything above1 199999 goes to a referendum yes how about it I mean it's a it's a I I I would sit there and say I I don't have a problem with something like the tractor going to a referendum I have a problem with road work or something along that lines but that wouldn't be a supplemental appropriation that would be in the budget right this this this item with the tractor was a total off issue so I don't have a problem okay I don't so but those are the numbers the numbers are you have you have language for a new ref Town referendum section and in that section I can put I can put together language for this I did not okay put it together yet because it was again it was this kind of discussion last time and there was not a consensus so I didn't want to I was trying to focus on getting the other things done with the limited amount of time that I had available so if if Bob are you are you yay or nay on this no I you know like I said I I think it's important for the town to have a voice in it and by a voice I mean the interactive process for either a you know a special hearing or a town meeting it seems like we're
going to a two-step process here where the town special town meeting is kind of a one-step process so in that regard it's two things we have to schedule it's twice the expense to the town but if no because the hearing the hearing could be at a regular board selectman meeting it doesn't have to be you know granted okay you know from a logistical standpoint I agree with that public hearing doesn't cost any money you have to notice Mee the T meeting costs money because you have to check everybody's license and we have to pay for the register of Voters to be there and so Town Town public hearing no problem public hearing done anything with you have to notice it though I mean that's we notice Carol Carol notices every Board of Select me meaning we have five
people show up okay I'm good with it you know Jody thoughts I'm on board I like the stepped approach right we we're trying to give our elected leaders a little bit more latitude we increased it from half to 1% that's a step maybe not enough but that's done business and this is kind of like anything between you know that H 1% 200,000 is a town meeting and then anything over 200,000 really everyone in Town's gonna you know has has an opport it's it's that referendum so yes I'm I'm finding with sort of this step wised approach yeah I'll work on the language for the next meeting and I I will apologize in advance for giving you short on this but I will hopefully be in a better place this coming week and I I'll get this to you much sooner okay that's great Adrien what you've done is is terrific some good ideas here let's go back are we voting on this or not are we ready to because to me because to me language language is I I'm
not an attorney and there's a reason why we have a attorney in my head so I'm not an attorney but I am understanding are you wanting to wait on this until Adrien proposes language is that the goal though yes okay then fine let's have something here that we can all look at that we can look at more than you know two minutes before we're trying to vote on it so we can digest it sure no problem I will I will get it to everybody the at least Monday before next Tuesday's meeting okay okay so we had started three weeks ago four weeks ago with a list of of items which yes I haven't I haven't circulated which things we've checked off but we have gone through made a first pass at everything and we've circulated around there's been a lot of documents flying around with everybody's changes I think what needs to happen now is for Carol and I to put all these things together into one attachment that can all look at next week go through quickly and say yeah yeah yeah I mean I have that we have voted on most of these things already but we need I think we need to see them all in context and together and that should be what we do next week because we've done a first pass on everything at this point I mean I know in my head we've
talked about everything I just don't know which ones we voted on and which ones we proved so I do remember Eric in a discussion of 1% do remember that I you know and and I think the logic of voting on that was it's as jod said an increased but it's not an excessive increase but what adrianne's language is now breathing breathing to us it's it's $80,000 for a town meeting and $200,000 for a town referendum logic so let's go Common Sense okay that's everything that I had for us to discuss all the items like I said it's it's up to Carol and I to kind of get this all together so that we can look at it in context together and that's where we're going to go then is there some structure to send this to the board of Selectmen the town attorney I think talked about different items in different ways right so I know there's a process and maybe this Jeff this is something for you to opine on but I think you know is it or nay we like these or there are seven changes and they could vote they could approve or
deny seven one through seven so there could be a partial acceptance I don't I don't I don't 100% recall that process well Carol Carol and Patricia were on the the last Charter revision commission so they understand that there's a draft report that's going to go in front of the board of Selectmen and and if I remember the last draft there was three or four items and we approved all all the items that were on that draft but I would assume that we would go through the same process we would get to a point where we're comfortable with what were the points we're trying to move forward with you'd give it to the town attorney the town attorney would come back with language that would be appropriate for the for the state of Connecticut and then it would go to the board of Selectmen and the board of selectman's going to either approve the draft or not approve the draft and then it would come back to us Carol correct for we do have to have a public hearing once we once we feel that we're completed that public has an additional chance for their input before we send okay couldn't couldn't hear the last few things you said there Carol I'm sorry so we have to have a public hearing once we're we feel that we're done we've made all of our motions voted on what we're going to send forward to the board of Selectmen we have another public hearing and then that public hearing someone may present something and we may want to modify before we send it to
so and then they would decide whether or not to send all of the items that we have sent forward as questions for Charter changing and Carol before that public hearing did you have the draft completed with the town attorney like the language that you were potentially sending to the board of Selectmen did not no okay okay okay so we complete a draft we have a public hearing we we put that in front of the public that we solicit inputs we may or may not edit the draft and then we submit it to the board of Selectmen they vote up down or sideways is they have the capability to make changes send it back to us think I don't think we have the ability I mean I'm speaking on of the board of Select I don't believe we have the authority to make changes we can make recommendations back to you and where we can sit there and say we don't approve this item in the draft right tell you what to do it's just recommendations listen we don't believe that this is good for the community please revise blah blah BL right I'm assuming I'm assuming though that just my mind this has to get to the town
attorney sooner than later to have appropriate language it does you have to have Den language and correct any mistakes that you may have made technical things that you know because like first selectman goes through the entire draft if we decided to say something first selectman is gone and we're going to call it first select member it goes through a lot of the pages of the draft of the charter so anyway yes sooner than later so all of this sooner than later so the package would be great Bob I right okay I think that's all of the discussion and possible actions that we have for this week anybody have anything that they want to throw in before we move on to the second public speak nope okay so we're on to item five public speak you have any other members of the public here Zoom login whoever that is I don't know hi hi folks sorry I had to interrupt the my name is John gusowski I don't know if I've met some of you I'm the town planner Planning and Zoning is actually waiting on this same Zoom feed for some reason the town only has one Zoom feed so their meeting which was supposed to start at 7 is is is waiting for you folks but obviously you had it
first so take your time well we actually have two Zoom feeds and we're using the secondary one that's the one that we were kind of assigned right from the start because there is a primary listen listen I'll make a motion that we adjourn good job love you all right okay thank you unanimous you us all right thank you guys see you thanks by bye everybody y