our Thank you, Eric. I I am I keep forgetting to do that. I apologize. all right. I'm going to call to order the Town of Andover Board of Selectman special meeting or September meeting scheduled for Monday, September 15th at 7:00. And our first order of business is the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. after that, our second item of business is public speak. So, I'm going to go around I'm going to start with Kathy Plausy. I can't I don't know which button to hit. good evening and I have nothing tonight. Let me ask my husband who just came by. Would you like to say something? Hun.
Hello.
Hey, Mike.
Thank you.
All right. No problem. we're going to move on to Diane Grer.
Can you hear me?
We can.
Oh, good. let's see. I want to well I suppose start with I went on to the calendar section and found the packet for tonight's meeting and as always I'm impressed with the all the stuff that's in there and I applaud Eric for a job well done. I'm always amazed at all the things that he covers
that was mountain.
But one one of the things that I I saw there that I have a question about is the Andover resident troopers report that comes from Troop K. And as we all know for quite some time the residents have been complaining about you know speeding and you know running through stop signs and in the troopers report he says in the month of August they only had three traffic stops. for all the complaining that we hear you know the jungle drums out there it seems like we should have more more stops. I also I was delighted to see the first day that we had the bicycle cops two of them and I've never seen them since and I can't see anybody else who's ever seen them. So I guess my question is are they still out there and enforcing and is there something we can do to increase the number of
patrols that we have? So that's that's my question and thank you for for listening to my two cents worth.
Okay.
Kathy Palazi can you turn off can you mute yourself?
Thank you. Christine Rendazo.
Hi. So, I am here as part of the veteran memorial field project. So, I'm just here for background questions if anything needs to head my way. So,
all right. Thank you. Well, we'll get with you at that section.
All right. Tescrross,
I have no comment at this time, Jeff. Thank you.
Okay, Haley Proto,
nothing at this time. Thank you.
All right, Luis Goodwin,
just listening. Thank you.
Kimberly Persan,
all set. Thank you.
All right. And I have one Zoom login. All right.
I'm sorry, Jeff. That's me, Elaine Bookart. I don't know what happened to my name.
Yeah,
it says Zoom login.
Same thing. Same thing with my name. I can't figure
I know. It's like, what the heck? All right. I just wanted to to mention that I'm really excited that we have Tess Grouse and Haley Proto working together at the community center, senior center. The commission on aging just had a meeting today to go ahead and see how things are going and they have so many activities and programs added for seniors and commuters community members that are ongoing. They've got Domino's, chess checker, setback. They've got a knitting club. They have Friday movies. They have foot care, hair care, senior lunches. they also have a PAL program ongoing for kindergarteners and seniors that are paired to do things together. there's a new pilot program called Travel in Time where the seniors and second graders are going to be researching Andover History maybe going out to some of the sites where that history happened and creating a book doing some art projects to create a story brook. So that's a new pilot program that's starting up in October. And of course the senior transportation, they do their shopping trips, their food pantry, their food share. anytime a senior needs a ride. They're very accommodating to doctor's appointments. and they're also offering rides for early voting this end of October, beginning of November. so I just wanted to put in a word that they're doing a great job. Thanks.
All right. Thank you. Did I miss anyone? Okay. If not, we'll continue. we're going to move on to item three, additions, changes to the agenda. Do any of the members of the board have anything that they would like to add or delete?
Jeff, it's a special meeting, so you can't add or delete. You can move things.
Well, you can delete. You just can't add. Sorry.
Okay.
I was hoping no one would add, but I have to. Sorry, it's have it. Apologize. yes, Eric. So I would like to move items 9 C and D the discussion of the replacement public works supervisor and public works maintainer to the end of the meeting and then I would like to have a short executive session prior to that with the board before we do that in open we any decisions are made in open session. Okay. anyone else? Anything else? I'll make a motion that we move 9D and 9E, items related to, the public works maintainer. I'm sorry, I'm going to rephrase that. 9 C and 9D. items related to the public works supervisor and public works maintainer two positions to the end of the meeting. We will move them down to item 13X. Do I get a second on that one from one of the members? Jeff
Scott Person seconded. All right. Ann Ker, how do you vote?
In favor? Yes. Verbally so I can get it on the record.
Yes.
Okay. Carol Lee.
Yes.
Scott Person.
Yes. There you go. Jeff Maguire. Yes. Okay. So, four nothing. All right. let's move on to item four, board and commission presentations. Eric, do we have anything?
none that I know of.
Okay. Item five, appointments. Do we have any?
Nope.
Okay. item six, resignations. 6A, treasurer, effective end of contract November 1st.
so let me elaborate on that. I think there is a chance that Cheryl would stay in some capacity. but I think we're going to have to work that out with Cheryl what that looks like. and then we as a board should, not we as a board, you as a board should discuss that with me and how you want to proceed with that. I have some ideas about some routes we could take. but there's no, you know, there's no great solution to this. Let's put it that way.
Well, I didn't see a resignation letter in our packet. So,
no, she didn't send it to me till today. So, I can I will forward it to the board, but I didn't want to forward it to you right before the meeting because you tend to yell at me for that.
Okay. So, even if she verbally or people verbally tell you they're resigning, please don't put it into our meeting into the agenda until you get the actual physical resignation letter so that we know what's up. I mean, it's just more of a protocol than anything else. It will be better. And I would ask you to attempt to work out I mean from my end attempt to work out something with Cheryl that will allow her to stay u see what you can do on that Eric.
Sure.
item seven, town administrators report.
Okay. So you have my report in there but what I wanted to and and I'll answer any questions. about that. But what I wanted to do since I don't know about you guys, but I've gotten a bunch of people asking questions about Bunker Hill and how that is going right now. So, what I wanted to do is spend some time and kind of go over that and bring you up to speed on that. I am going to send you as a board a letter with more details of it because I I suspect if you're getting the questions I am, you know, people are raising concerns and you got to be able to know what what what to tell them. So, here's the summary as it is stands
right now. At this point, it looks like construction is mostly back on track and the constructor the contractor will be able to finish this construction season. and there won't be a significant delay. I've also received more questions about emergency management support. Just so everybody knows, Coventry EMS is the primary responder to Bunker Hill while the bridge is out. and the Andover ambulance and the Andover Fire Department is the secondary responder just because the response time right now from Cottage Tree is much shorter than from Andover. that is going to flip at some point and Andover is going to end up covering some of the Coventry residents on that road because as soon as Bunker Hill bridge at the Hop River is finished, Coventry is going to close the road at the other end because they have a bridge
on their end that needs to be replaced. Also, the town is working really hard to make sure we have all the proper controls in place and that the bridge is built correctly and that we have a quality product. And from everything I can see, it looks like we're going to get a well-built bridge that's going to last us a long time. and fourth, we have a set of contingency plans in place to plow the roads if the road closure does extend into into the plowing season. I have reached out to the head of DPW in Coventry, with a proposal about how we can swap roads because right now it would be a really hard thing for public works to drive all the way up and and around to
plow the last mile of Bunker Hill Road. So, we're working on that. and you know, so, so that's kind of the cliffotes. if you have specific questions on that or you want more details, I'm happy to provide them. right now we're about 2thirds of the way through the expected project timeline for the bridge replacement. The official start date was April 1st and the expected completion date is November 30th. so again, at this point, it looks like the contractor should meet that date or if not be pretty close. as we've talked about before, there were two significant issues with the project. The first was the the main bridge span is composed of nine pre-stressed concrete beams. two of the nine were manufactured with significant defects. The manufacturer wanted to fix them. the town insisted that they replaced them. that's gone back and forth a couple times. They've basically told us it's going to take them forever to refabricate them and then threaten to make us pay. and we kind of stood
firm with the Department of Transportation with CONDOT Bridge engineering and told them to pound sand. and as a result, they've already poured it. those bridge sections will be delivered in two days. the crane is being erected on site right now. Two of the the nine beams are already lined up on the road and four more are sitting in a staging area you know 15 or 20 miles from here. and they've got to basically put all those in place, take their trailers back to get the last three. So, with a little luck, by Thursday, the beams will be in place and ground. So, that's that's a a you know, that's a good thing is terms of schedule. Before Before you move on from that, the two beams that were poured, right, they were poured about two weeks ago,
correct?
They've cured.
They've cured enough to be installed and they passed all their their initial strength tests
and their material specification tests. So the engineering firm did the testing that they did on the original beams and or the other seven beams and they've determined that these two beams meet all the testing protocol and all the testing specifications. Okay.
Correct.
All right.
Correct.
And when do you think they'll all be in position? So are they going to try to do this all in one day? They have two beams positioned that I saw pictures from Scott was nice enough to send them.
No, they they can't do it. They could physic they probably physically could set all nine beams in one day with the crane. But the problem is they actually don't have enough trailers because every beam only one beam will fit on a trailer because the heaviest beam that we have I think is 55 55 tons. So, the two end beams, which are the heaviest, in other words, all of them come separately, one per tractor trailer, and they only have six, trailers to put these things on. So, basically, there's six of them ready to go now. As soon as they start putting in place the beams, they're going to be driving down back the trailers, loading them up. But it's also complicated because these things take oversized permits and you can't just drive them anywhere you want at any time of day. So there's time of day restrictions when they can get delivered. So the bottom line is they should all be installed by Thursday per their existing schedule. so six of them tomorrow. and the last three installed on Thursday, Wednesday being the transportation day for the next set of beams.
Okay.
So that was the first big issue. The second big issue was with the micro piles. And so you know, basically a micro pile is a vertical hole about 6 in in diameter that is drilled down to bedrock. and then a heavy structural steel casing is inserted down the hole to bedrock and then a giant piece of rebar that's about 3 in in diameter is dropped into the hole and then it's filled with structural grout. and so the and the hole extends about 10 ft into bedrock. So basically it's like a vertical support that goes under you know what do you call under the the end support for the bridge. And the
reason that's done is to make sure there's no possibility of in a huge flood water scouring the earth underneath the bridge abutments and washing out a bridge abutman because now you would have to wash all the way down to bedrock and then shear, you know, 12 of these things on each side of the bridge. So when they poured the grout down there, they took a total of six samples. They took three right in the beginning and they took three more a couple hours later. so our inspector took three of the samples. He took the samples of the very first material that was mixed up and then the contractor took samples later. they both go to different testing labs. One set went to the condot lab. One sent one set set went to materials testing which is pretty local to us. That's a really reputable operation. They had very different results. The ones that went to conduct failed the specification. The ones that were taken a while later on that same day with that same crew passed and then all the sets for the other abupment passed as did the two test ones that were done when they put the first micro pile in. so
we I had a bunch of discussions with the engineers from DOT as well as the bridge designer of record who's a senior engineer from CDR Maguire. and the engineer from CDR Maguire basically said, "These things are so overdesigned, they will more than likely pass the structural the actual structural loading requirements even with the if you assume the lowest strength route result that we got. So, but he's not the guy that has to certify that. the engineer that works for the micro pile is the one that has to certify that. So we requested that they provide us with you know essentially certifications a letter. and so he sent us a letter with his his structural engineering stamp on it basically saying that it meets the existing strength. you know it it meets the design spec even though it is less even if you assume that all the grout was at the lowest compressive strength that was there. And the reason is because the majority of the strength requirement in that system is the strength of the steel casing not the grout itself. so we still asked him for his math, which they haven't supplied yet, but I'm presuming that will. So I think that will go away. That issue will go away, pretty quickly.
and I think
National Shoring,
what
who is National Shoring? National Shoring is the company that drilled the micro piles and grouted and is responsible for the micro piles. but they in turn use an engineering company because basically what it is is you never know exactly what the characteristic of a micro pile is until you have a fully until you have a full micro pile. So the very first thing they do when they show up on site is they drill one micro pile, put the casing in, put the rebar in, grout it, wait seven to 10 days, and then they bring in this big rig and they try to pull it out and see whether they can pull it out and it has the proper withdrawal strength. And then they try to bend it and see whether it's bendable and what the torsional rigidity of it is. And then based on the numbers from that testing, they produce the final design for the rest of the micro pile. So even though
the bridge is already designed, the actual microp pile design is the responsibility of the company that does the micro piles. So, we did get a letter from their engineering firm saying that you know even if you assume that the testing results are correct and the compressive strength of the grout was low, it's still well within structural the structural capacity of the bridge.
Question is their engineering firm that was hired by National Shoring. Correct. Correct.
And it sounds like from their letter that they did go even based on the Connecticut DO rating, the lower rating, even though they didn't agree with it.
Correct. It sounded like they said that the pilings, the micro piles were they gave kind of their stamp of approval with a disclaimer in there too saying that the acceptance was based on documents and representations provided by National Shoring.
Correct.
But they're not warrantying anything. No, but no, neither is I mean they wouldn't be warranting anything either way. I mean all they're doing is saying that based on the results of the compressive strength of the grout, the overall micro pile design still meets the specifications that the bridge designer had outlined for the micro pile you know design. And the reality is
just just one last thing for me. How different were the two test results?
night and day. the first test results were about 1,500 PSI and the second results were between 7 and 10,000 PSI.
And are they core samples? How did they take the samples? And did we take did you take the samples from the 1500 PSI company and go get them retested or no?
No, you can't. and the reason is is that you basically when you're mixing up the grout, they have these little cylinders and they make they take three cylinders. They they fill three cylinders with grout, seal them, sign them, and date them, and then essentially put them aside for 28 days before they can test them because the the test is supposed to be the 28 day strength rating of it. so that that's kind of the interesting thing in some ways is why was the test that low? I mean, whitest stone basically said that cond lab screwed it up and didn't do it right. you know, that it's almost impossible for it to be that low anyway. Well, just just so
was there a testing about this the square inches? How many square inches there was? They they did it a six by six inch pipe and a a 2 inch square or something. Eric, what what was that all about?
Yeah. So, Whitest Stone basically said they thought the reason the the test came out low is because they were using a testing rig optimized for a much larger sample size than what they got and that was the problem. But that doesn't really make sense because they tested all the grout cubes from the other side in the DOT lab and they're like their results and whitest stones results were very similar and the initial when they did the test grout when they did the the test micro pile the the samples matched between materials testing laboratory who tested them for national shoring and the the ones our inspector pulled. So, I mean, I I don't know. Everybody was surprised that they came out that low. the problem is there were only three and it's a destructive test. So, having done the test, there's really not any way to the only way you could recover from that now is to have taken a lot more cubes in the first place.
Okay. So just for me,
Sure.
was you said that they took samples at two different times within the pouring,
correct?
The filling of the grout. Did both engineering firms or both testing laboratories test samples from both pores or did did one company do the first set and one company do the second set?
No. So the way it's supposed to work is you're required to pull you're required to test at least one triplicate set per day of grouting operations. And each side of the bridge, you know, all the microp piles got grouted in one day. And so basically, you have a machine that's continually mixing the grout with water and producing a material that then is put in each successive micro piles. Now, for whatever reason, the very first micro pile took roughly six times as many bags of grout as the other micro piles, probably because the the rock where that where it was in the rock was fractured. That's the guess. And that's that's apparently not uncommon, you know, with that. So more than likely the problem if if there truly was a problem is in a single micro pile. But I
don't think there's any way looking back on it that you can figure that out. and the the real secondary problem is because you have to wait 28 days per the DOT testing standards. 28 days later the bridge abutment was already poured over and all the microp priiles were encapsulated. So it's almost not something that could be recoverable without pouring entirely new beams for the bridge and moving that abupment back and starting over. but
so they're saying they're saying at 1500 PSI the bridge of
plenty is plenty. Okay,
Jeff, there's there's 10 on each side. They're down, you know, 30 feet through the gravel and then 10 feet into the snow. And I've been down there every day.
And then the microp piles are put in, the grout's all put in there. And then they put the abutman on top of that already. You know, it was done a month ago. That's It's never going to move ever.
Okay. All right. but I still don't understand the I'm I'm stuck on the testing protocol.
The 1600 PSI is plenty.
It's plenty. I get it.
Plenty.
Eric, what I'm asking is is what I was trying to ask is so each sample that was taken, individual sample was tested by one lab, not split between the two labs, so they could compare their samples. Correct.
Yeah, that's stupidity. I'm sorry, Scott.
Well, but the reason is is that the the consulting engineering firm that we use has to submit them to DOT. They're the only ones that they're authorized to test samples at, whereas the private contractor can use whoever they want. I mean, you know, I I would tend to trust Material Testing Labs. That's who we use for asphalt and other compression testing as a town. they're a good company. I cannot explain the discrepancy between the two results. and I've never really known anybody that could. you know, the only two possibilities anybody came up with is it it was either a bad, you know, batch of grout or a bad bag of grout that particular sample was made from. you know, or there was too much water. But what Allan said is that the grout is is less sensitive to water than a standard mortar mix. So they would have had to been not just a little bit off, they would have had to been off, you know, immensely for that to not be
or it really was a a testing mistake on the part of Gondot.
Okay,
that's all right. Anybody Anybody?
So from Scott, from your visual being down there all the time, the the pilings are poured. It's they're the abupments are are made. They're ready to go. And even at 1500 PSI, they're never moving.
They're never gonna move.
Okay.
All right.
That's my that's my professional opinion being down there and I'm a bridge designer. Jeff,
I like it. anybody else have any other questions?
I just had a question. And it said that the CT do a 28-day grout compressive strength test. Is that what material testings did to the same thing that 28 day to come up with their 7790 to 10,010 PSI?
The it was supposed to be submitted at 28 days. What day they actually submitted? it could have been a few days longer, but I don't know exactly. I mean, I would have to go down and look at Allen's actual you know, logs to see what date they submitted to MDL.
I mean, the issue is you didn't test in my in my How many pylons did they they pour, Scott?
12.
12 on each side. They tested
they tested from two.
Well, so
because you only poured one day, they tested on each side and they only tested the grout from two of those. They they they test the mixture at a given point in time in the pour.
Yes.
Okay,
that's correct.
All right. So even if we had one bad bag, we have like 10 other good bags and there's nothing we there's honestly nothing we as a board or as a town is if this engineering firm says that's good and national shoring takes I mean I guess I would ask just from like my background is there anything that we get them to sign Eric? I mean they're not going to be around probably in 75 years. It's the same reason we had them pour the new concrete beams. You can't trust they'll be around. So
going to be around for whatever two or three 400 years that it's going to be around forever. That's a solid solid bridge.
But he's talking about the business going out of business and the town doesn't have any backup. Is there like any kind of an insurance policy or anything that we can get on this bridge? because a written guarantee from a company that goes out of business just isn't worth much.
I mean and that is why we rejected the fix on the beams. But you know if the engineering firm that's required to do the structural calculations for the micro piles proves that even using the lowest possible assumption it still passes the structure test.
There's not a lot you're going to do. The only thing different that we don't have now that we've asked for is them to show us
the full calculations. I mean, they've sent us a a stamped approval letter with his professional seal as an engineer on it. but we don't have the final, you know, the calculation tables. and we're not going to sign the the report. you know, some there's something that ultimately myself and the engineer from DOT and the contractor are going to have to sign and it's called the MAT 103, which is a report of rejected material which is something that happens anytime a material used in construction has failed some aspect of testing. So we are going to have to do that but I don't think you're going to get national shoring to issue any kind of letter because from their perspective this is a fully compliant installation.
Okay. I mean listen it's kind of hard to sit there and go back and try to get any of these pylons because they're all buried.
I know. And that that was the problem with with
All right. So, so let's go this way for the public. If it if there they were 1500 PSI, the 1500 PSI, if it was 1500 PSI through the entire all the pylons, which it wasn't because some of the other testing came back at 7,500 to 10,000
75,
we have one potential piling that's a problem and we have 12 pylons. So
either side,
Eric, just update us as to the material 103 report and what ends up happening and if there's any there's anything that we can do for this. And I'm assuming DOT is also taking an aggressive approach to this. You know, it's not just the town or is DOT just pushing it back on the town and saying it's the town's responsibility? I'm assuming they're not.
Well, ultimately the town has to sign the MAT 103. you know, the town has to authorize its use. but I really don't see any option. I mean, we would be essentially starting over and having to make longer beams and repour a new footing farther back with new micro piles. That's the the ultimate problem with this is that and part of the reason I think they so radically overdesign the micro pile design is because you almost can't recover for that like there's no mechanism I asked that question of the bridge engineer could he does could he add and specify another six microp piles outside the
original abupment and then structurally tie him in and their answer is no. Once the abupman is poured, it can't be because the abupman is designed to be integral with the the bridge beams. And so the bridge beam is tied to the abupman, but the abupman is not tied to the parapit wall, and it's not tied to what's called the approach slab. So that could actually bend or move independently of the parapit either seasonally or you know if somebody drove a you know 16 Abram tanks over it at the same time or something like that. So you can't go back and reverse engineer a support for that. You would basically be starting over. which clearly we're not going to do, nor do I think we have to. Right. from my end just please update us on the the Matt 103 and what progress is made related to that.
Yeah. So I did yesterday I got a revised twoe look ahead from schedule from NJR. So the crane is on site now. They were putting it together when shortly before this meeting. they should have the beams installed by Thursday and be grouting and post-tensioning beams Thursday Friday time frame and then immediately set up to form and pour the bridge deck. So there's about eight more pores that have to be done sequentially on this project. but it looks like they're in really good shape from the the other thing that's good for my perspective is the crane is the last real subcontractor up until we're paving that the general contractor has to use. everything else is under his control because it's his guys and so far everything they've done themselves has been on time and hasn't been a problem. So I think at this point the only things that would cause significant project delay are weather related. either we got a really really big rain event that flooded out the construction area because remember part of Bunker Hill Road is quite a bit lower than the bridge and if the water's flowing over in the project area the project would be delayed. And the second thing is if we got a really cold November and really easy snowstorms, potentially the asphalt plants could shut down, but I think those are are unlikely you know, unlikely to occur. So it it looks to me like we're back on on track in a reasonable fashion. Okay. Anybody
else have any questions related to the Bunker Hill Bridge project? Okay, Eric, what else do you want to go over?
just do are there any other questions from the administrator's report?
I do have one.
The town clerk's office. I know that Lauren Persan is is in the the u acting director or acting clerk and you have Heidi from union.
Yep.
Please my biggest mental issue related to that is making sure that all of the election items are taken care of properly. So please work with Lauren to make sure that all those filings are done timely and accurately. so that we don't have any file any issues with the election in November.
Yes, that is the goal. And one of the reasons why we chose Heidi was because Union doesn't have elections in November this time around. So, she has the time and the availability to work on Andover's elections from the town clerk's perspective. Okay. All right. Anybody else have any other questions related to other items? well, I'll ask another one. What the heck? the resident state trooper.
Sure.
so I know we had a question in public speak related to that. I'm assuming in the September report, we'll see the 17 tickets.
We should.
Okay. All right. Thank you.
So, yeah. I mean I so the arrangement I have with the barracks right now is that they will periodically surge in Andover and do targeted enforcement until we have our regular resident trooper back in service.
Okay. And my last one, the long hill bridge is going to be done in 2026.
That's correct. and the light on Andy and Route Six. I see that got it approved.
That is correct.
Oh, when do when do we anticipate that being installed?
shortly before the road is closed at Long and it will be a temporary light only. they still are refusing to make it permanent. but at least we'll have it for the period of construction when there'll be the greatest inconvenience to residents. Okay, so
thanks for doing that, Eric. Thanks for sticking by it and getting it done. Good job.
Thank you.
Any other issues for Eric? Okay, let's move on to item eight, old business. item 8A is the Bunker Hill Bridge update. We've covered that. item 8B, the OSHA update quickly.
we're pretty much wrapping that up finally. The last real step had been to, write and put in place all the lockout tagout procedures for equipment. I worked with Zach a couple days last week and we completed all of that. and I'm submitting the rest of that back to OSHA in a couple of days. Hopefully, they don't have any problem with it. And that's basically the last thing we need for compliance other than we are going to have to institute a hearing monitoring program for public works because when they miked up public works for a day of work several of the pieces of equipment the 8hour noise threshold for the employees was over the minimum that you could have without a a monitoring and testing program. So we will be instituting that at some point.
That's it.
All right. HC and over finest update.
I don't have anything.
Carol,
I don't know if every anybody had a chance to look at it, but yesterday I had sent out I took Paula's document and just updated it. I was hoping that rather than keep pushing it down to the next month, we could maybe put that document out there and start taking nominations next month so that we can select the nominees in January. I know that part of it the award was going to be a brick in the walkway for the community center, but that walkway is done. So, I know the last time it was suggested by Ann that we do a nice plaque and just display it in the community room of the town office building or the community center, wherever you decide.
but it that's I updated that portion of it just to say that it would be a plaque rather than
bricks. It's supposed to be a brick patio, not a walkway. Patio.
Okay. The original document did say a walkway though. So, a brick. It
didn't say walkway. It was a It was a patio.
I I actually think I I actually think the plaque is a better idea.
and Carol, I I did not get a chance to read that, but I I would ask you this. Let's let's read that and put it out to the community anyway. We need to sit there and
get moving on it. So,
yes.
And maybe get the nomination forms on our website along with that updated criteria.
Yeah, no problem.
So, we can rather than keep moving it because it's every month for several months. We just keep pushing it further down the road.
Okay.
Yeah, we should get that out.
Yes, definitely.
All right. Thank you.
Eric, please sit there and put that out. And and Eric, one other thing on the website. I do like your nice color coding.
I don't have it.
So, you'll have to give it to
We'll get it to you. Carol, if you can get that to Eric and send that to him. That would be great.
Okay. and we'll sit there and let's put that out on the website and let's get that to some of the residents Diane Grineer and some of the other residents that are very passionate about and fin 8D the status of the field improvements. Eric, I know that, that we have Christine Randazzo with us related to that and and any of the members have any questions as to where we're at with the project? I know Scott's been engaged in it.
yeah.
So, I have a couple of questions. at our last meeting, Eric, you told us that we public works wasn't able to help and do anything in the project because the former director had left. Now, yesterday in the afternoon, we did get the updated email from you with the updated cost saying that the public works can do some of this work to get under our budget gap. What was what is the budget for completing this project? I know we got the $500,000 steep grant that was approved for acceptance by the voters at a special town meeting February of last year.
And they also approved a $150,000 town match. Now, the original quote that you sent us on September 9th said that the cost was going to be 995,81460. The updated one that you sent us Sunday afternoon was $887,5892. That's a different of difference of over 108,000. So, I'm just curious because I was looking at the updated and in red there were item 82, 152, and 153 says labor only and it excludes material. And then 80 75 83 124 and 148 say NP tasks. Is that did you mean for public works tasks? Those are the tasks that public works 7583 1248 that they're going to do. So, where it says NPT, that means if you you look at most of
the the tasks in here, they're break broken out by code. And it's basically some unit quantity and a cost per unit quantity and then a modifier based on whether it's a small amount that you're doing or a large amount that you're doing. like but when it says NPT task that is something where there's nothing in their overall book regarding that particular item like you'll see an NPT for the playground and that was because the playground committee looked at multiple estimates from three or four different manufacturers and then decided which manufacturer they liked best and then went back to that
manufacturer and modified the proposal multiple times until the playground committee got exactly what what they wanted. So NPT means it's not a precosted task. It's a cost that's given to us by a vendor that's just so so it's not something that comes out of their book because they can't you know you could specify a playground but every playground is different. so there's one for that there's one for the clo farms. The reason 148 for the light pole shows up as NPT is because to get this through the planning and zoning commission because it's exterior lighting and it needs a special permit under our regulations. We had to specify a manufacturer and show the ISO diagram. So once we did that, either the manufacturer, either the designer would have to go back and pay another lighting engineer to find a different package that conformed or they had to use exactly those fixtures that we had specified in our lighting design. So that is what 148 is
and that is the soft lighting that was required by the zoning regs. Well, it's more than just so there there's a bunch of things that a lighting plan has to include. So, it has to have the light intensity at various different locations. Like on a playing court, you don't want some parts to be in shadows and some parts to be brightly lit. So, there's a minimum and maximum illumination off the playing field. There's also a requirement that the lighting not on the playing field has to be h it has to be dropped off pretty dramatically. And partly this is because it's right next to a wetlands. and so you can't you're not technically supposed to have a bunch of stray light into the wetlands. and the second is there's something called a color temperature for lighting. like if I look behind you, that light that shows up behind you in your image, that is a very soft white or very yellow light. And if you look what's on mine, you'll see a very cold white light because cold white light is much better for an office environment. but there's a standard for athletic fields and then there's a competing standard for things that are near wetlands to minimize impacts to the little critters and the salamanders and stuff like that. So, this lighting package offered a compromise between those two so that it passed muster with our consulting herpatologist, and got through the wetlands commission and also satisfied the zoning
commission and our current lighting regulations.
Okay. because I just remembered the soccer and the issue with the lighting there and that's why they didn't continue with their lease with the town.
correct. Now, the other three, and I'm sorry, I know I threw everything out there all together, but 82, 152, and 153
on the new states, labor only
excludes materials. I would suspect somewhere else in there there are the ballards. so that's just saying that that it's they're charging just for the installation on that particular line item. And that all depends on how it is in their book. some things are installed like for instance, if you order gravel, you know, if you need x number of feet of gravel, you're going to get charged for trucking gravel, you're going to get charged for placing gravel, and you're going to get charged for compacting gravel, for instance. And if you got to move it by hand from one place to the other because you can't get in a truck in there, there'll be a separate fee for that. So somewhere in there you would probably see the a line item for a steel baller.
is that part of the playground equipment which is a whole other section?
these numbers were under the subtopic utilities. So anything associated with a utility on the project. Yeah, I'm not sure what those particular ballards are or why there's
Well, let's go to
You know what? That's probably fencing is my guess.
if it's around 12,
it could be the lighting the lighting board, I think. Eric, I hold the light pole up. Yeah, the they will probably be down to the frost line buried as well as above the mean high water for that area because it does experience flood. So, they're probably a good size.
Okay. So, Carol's original question and and I think it's something that should be outlined is the project, you know, we we know we got
650,000
and we got another we got another grant
which Carol let's let's just get the numbers and then we'll ask questions. So, I know the project says 995.
Explain where the money is coming from, Eric. So we we're all
so we got the project down by shifting some of the tasks and basically what you know what I said Carol is we don't really have the ability for public works to do the significant portion of construction on this right now. but there's a bunch of tasks that we could carve out for public works that's well within their existing capabilities. The first is clearing and grubbing of the site because the cost for clearing and grubbing I thought was a little excessive in their proposal. so we took that back. There's a bunch of stuff that can get, you know, they were going to charge us to get rid of that basically crush and remove that the shed that was there because it's right in the middle of everything. so I'm just gonna have public works haul the thing to the public works garage, and get that out of there. they had money in there for collapsing, grouting the well that's there, and pulling the well casing. Again, that's something public works can do, and I thought their costs were high for that. So what I've done is basically said, okay, what are the tasks that I don't want to tie up public works in the middle of the project? In other words, I don't want to be the contractor does a little, then we do a little, then the contractor does a little because that's too hard to coordinate right now. So, what I'm saying is we can get public works to do the simple prep work steps, which we're we kind of have the equipment and we're optimized to do and
public works and Abbey Construction can do the final parking lot once the pickle ball courts and the playgrounds are in. we can have them do the parking lot just as part of our normal paving you know operations and use material from our pit for the subbase for the gravel and then just bring in you know good fill for the gravel lot and for the handicapped parking. So, my goal was to take the initial steps that could be done before the contractor starts to work and then take the last step out and let public works do that so we could get it under budget and actually do it.
Okay. So, the total says the total on the document that that we all have is 995 814 815.
Correct. No, yesterday we got an updated one for 887589 if we have the public works do all of this, but that still is over the 650,000 that was approved at our special town meeting in February of 2024 for this project. So, I'm just wondering, I know you did tell me that we could piggyback grants and piggyback the quarter of a million dollar legislative GL grant that we just received with this, but I checked on the steep grant application and it said that all project funding must be secured as of the time of the application and I'm assuming that you applied for this back in 2020. 23 and we just received that quarter of a million dollar legislative grant. So we're we're well above that 650,000 even at the 88, you know, with shaving
off the $108,226.58 with public works. All right, Eric, can you just go through the funding mechanisms?
So, but that is the so the what steep says in the steep project basically says is that if you apply it for a grant for X amount of money, that's what we're going to give you. And if you go over in costs, it is the town's responsibility to make up the difference. So, we are making up the difference, but we're making it up with another state grant that we're adding on to this. So, we are still only charging steep $500,000, which is what we are obligated to do. We are still only spending $150,000 of town money. We are going to spend an additional $250,000 from a legislative appropriation. and we're going to spend the $10,000 grant that the Hartford Foundation for Public Giving gave us. So theoretically, we have about $910,000 that could be spent on this project, but you know at $8.87 you have a little possibility of a contingency if something comes up. Number one. And
number two, if you get to the end and you still got a little money left over because you will have already spent the steep money and you were already spent the town match because that's a requirement to get the steep money, then you can either use a little bit of the legislative funding for something else or you can use it for furniture and tables and stuff like that for the pavilion. So, I think we're okay. you know, I'm quite thankful we got the legislative grant because if not, we would have really been struggling. it just sounded that application where it said that all project funding must be secured as of the time of the application of the steep grant. Well, Carol,
the thing that I'm quite
understood, but then you break the project into two different components and you sit there and you say the project is the pickle ball courts is is the 650 and the 250,000 is the playground and we sit there and get it funded as long, Eric, as we have it funded with no other strings attached that are other issues there. what we did when we originally went and requested the 650 that or we got the 650 the $500,000 steep grant with the 20% match. You know, that's fine. So, you're looking at the legislative aotment of the $250,000 to cover the remainder of the playground and the other costs related to the upgrade to the field. And there's no town required funding for the $250,000. Okay.
There is none.
Okay. Carol, any any specific questions as to
the only thing I just wanted to make sure we don't have to go to a special town meeting or anything on this?
Okay.
So, and and that is a really good question. in my head, the answer that we don't have to go is we've already gone to town meeting to commit the $150,000 of town money. so we already have that commitment and we're not increasing that value. Everything else we're spending is non-t tax or non-local tax dollar because it's all tax dollars. I mean,
well, do us a favor and let's let's talk to the town attorney and sit there and get an understanding whether we should or shouldn't go to a town meeting. And then that way, I mean, I would particularly say we don't need to because as you said, we're not putting up any additional funding, but let's sit
there and find out. Okay.
Send us an email tomorrow once he gives you an an an answer so that we all know what's up. Okay, Dennis, call me in the morning.
Is Dennis on? Dennis, how are you? okay.
are there any questions that you have for either Christine or Sarah because they're the ones that have been kind of the principles on pushing this through and they came on the meeting hopefully to answer questions you had about specifics of the design or anything like that.
When are you going to get the pickle ball courts ready for Scott? That's That's about I don't know if everybody knows this. Scott is a pickle ball player.
Scott, you can smile when I say that.
No.
Okay, fine.
Sarah's got a Sarah's the one that did the playground thing. And I got to tell you that that was a very, very difficult thing that she did. She spent many, many, many hours and weekends going from playground to playground. And this was over months and months. She did a outstanding job doing that playground. The playground is is very hard because there's not two pieces of playground equipment they're the same. It was a very difficult job and I we have to commend her for
Yeah.
putting out so much effort. She did a great job.
I concur.
Me too. I was I was in the fields on Saturday for soccer and I'm really excited for when we have a playground there for all the other kids to to play on then and at any time. So hoping to make it happen.
Okay. anyone have any specific questions? I mean I'll I'll sit there and I'll ask Christine one. I was looking at the document that's in the packet and I was going over how this process works. Have have we identified anyone in town that has some experience in these types of projects to look at the some of these multipliers or these factors to sit there and see if they make sense. So the multipliers for the line items.
Yeah. So they give you a quantity for what they're supposed to do and then a unit price and then the factor. And the factor looks like it's it's something that's just is that a statemandated number, Eric, or is that Crag related? How are they determining that factor?
I think that's 17% is their standard overhead and profit.
Yeah,
that's their that's their overhead. I think there's an allowable range that they can be between and they have to state it explicitly and yeah, it does inflate every line item.
So that's why we went back from the 995 and just went item by item. What what could we do? What don't we need? so we can afford this with a buffer for contingencies. You can't just go right up to 910 and hope everything goes smoothly.
So there is one other thing we could chat about a little bit. but I am kind of okay with it because I think it protects our ars is that they also pass on the cost of the construction bond for this. obviously that's almost $17,000. they don't care whether we bond it. you know, it's just a question of whether you want to roll the dice on there being a problem with it. you know, they ordinarily build the bond into the proposal. That's line 60. that's the the reimburseable fee. you know, we can save an extra $16,000 by foregoing the bond. I don't think that's a particularly good idea, but we
can do it.
Correct. I mean, I'm What's Scott asked is can we bond it?
Probably not. And I I I would say,
not being the general contractor, I don't think so.
But All right. I I we did receive the the plans on this playground, the final completed plans. Have Have the board received those?
Yes, you have.
All right. I need to sit there and re get that email and recall that and Okay, I I I listen, I don't have any problem. I think you guys have done a great job and I look forward to the pickle ball courts being installed and the playground being installed and you know making it a much more friendlier facility for all the members of the community. So,
so other than the legal question for Dennis, what as to whether this has to go back to town meeting? how do we want to proceed?
What do you need from us? Well, if if we're going to do this as is, you would need to authorize I mean, I'm not signing a $880,000 purchase order without the board voting to accept it. There are a couple things in this proposal that I still plan on going back to the contractor and addressing because I think they took out the the final grading of the parking lot, but they didn't take out some of the other aspects of the parking lot and I I think public works can legitimately do that, too. So, I'm not saying this is a final document, but it's not far from a final document. And the question is, do you authorize the committee or do you authorize me on behalf of the committee to sign the agreement with the Gordian Group to get this project going? and if if not, what else would you like to see or do before that would happen?
Well, what is your what is the plan right now to start this project? well, presuming you're okay with it, I'm going to have public works starting to clear and grub by the end of this week.
This week? This
with my goal getting public works in and out of there in the next 10 days or so. because I got to free him up by October to do some equipment maintenance.
so I'd like to get that started as fast as possible. I would like I would very much like to get this going because we know if we get into January 1, we're going to be paying roughly a 6% increase in playground costs.
So, I would like to get that ordered.
and I think there's a series of things. Do I think they're going to get the pickle ball courts in this fall? No. But I think potentially we can get the playground ordered and roughed in this fall and at least get some of the work done before it gets too cold this year. So that would be my goal is to get this signed as soon as possible and then you know get as much done as we can as fast a rate as we can.
Yeah.
What's 6% Jeff of 887? Well, it's not 887.
It's the playgrounds, you know, it's a hundred. It's roughly $200,000.
So, that's around a $12,000 adder if we don't make that.
Yeah. Prices change on the playground December 5th. So even if we can just secure the ones that were agreed upon and they can hold payment till we take receipt just as long as they receive before December 5th. We are hoping to not waste any more monies going past that date.
All right. so
ther than the the issue of town meeting, I mean, Eric, what I would I what I listen, I'll make a motion that we we approve the we approve Eric Anderson on behalf of the board of selectmen to approve the contract for the construction of the playground and pickleball courts at Veterans Memorial Field contingent upon on an answer regarding town meeting.
Second that
further discussion
and we just authorize that the road crew goes in and starts doing that preliminary work until we get an answer.
Well, that's why I was after what the start date was, Carol, and and we could them to sit there and just go do the preliminary work.
I mean, honestly, we're going to do this project.
The issue from our standpoint is is
that we're procedurally doing it correct. That's all
correct. And so the issue is that if we have to go to town meeting, then it's contingent on the answer related to town meeting. If we don't have to go to town meeting,
then
are we well are we in agreement that we're going to move forward with the project as a board? That's what the vote would be.
Right.
Sure.
Yeah. Move forward with it, but I'm just saying to authorize signing contracts three weeks before our next meeting.
Eric, does the three weeks cause you a problem signing the contract?
not that I know of. but the sooner we're in the pipeline, the sooner we're likely to have work done on it.
listen, we're going to get this project done. Carol,
I think we should get it done.
So, what we're authorizing Eric to do is find out if we need a town meeting. If we need a town meeting, that goes to the legislative authority, the town, and and the voters. We're going to have a town meeting to vote on this. and we would have a meeting to vote on the additional $250,000 legislative grant that was that Eric obtained.
I I just say we vote on it. So it was seconded.
Anything else?
So Eric, we're going to vote on this. You're going to go find out if we need a town meeting. If we don't need meeting, you are authorized to keep it under budget,
right?
Yeah.
Okay. All right. we'll do roll call. Any
I
Carol Lee,
I'm going to abstain.
Okay. Scott Person.
I Jeff Magcguire. I 301. All right. Eric, get us an answer on the town meeting and then we can move forward. Sarah and Christine, thank you very much for what you guys have done. I appreciate all your work. Scott, you as well and the committee. So, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Okay.
Christine,
thank you.
Thank you.
8 squad squad rescue pumper update. Eric, where are we at with the lease agreement and the lease documents from Mnt? so supposedly we're going to be ready for final signing on Thursday.
Okay.
and the squad pumper is where?
The squad pumper is in Norwalk.
In Norwalk.
Okay. All right. 8F the Andover Elementary School RFP for bathroom renovations.
I don't have any update. That is the RFP for the bathroom renovation is all taken care of. The general contractor has been chosen along with the subcontractors and we you can check the minutes from the last week's BOE meeting to get all the names of those people. They should be posted in a day or two. And I'm gonna tell you, I need you to schedule a meeting with the board of education because that's not how this should go.
That's the way it has gone in the past. Whenever there was a project, the school
and that's a $300,000 project. Where did the bid
the roof when they replaced the roof of me talking? I understand you represent the board of education. I represent the town of Andover, which includes the board of education and the school. So, please, we are one town. It's taxpayer money and it's not being done correctly.
It is being done.
I will call I will call the chairperson of the board of education and I will call the superintendent. We will be having a meeting. This is not how this stuff is going to get done in the future. This is terrible. Terrible.
It's all done. It's going to be progressing.
You got to get the money.
Board of Education.
How are you? How are you going to get the money? Really? How are you going to get the money?
You go to finance and tell them that you didn't do it correctly. What are we going to do? This is terrible. This is not how this organization should work. We are all volunteers. It's disgusting. And you're supposed to be representing the town.
Yeah. That's okay.
Not the school.
Represent the board of education.
I went to the board of education meeting.
Yeah.
And this is what this has been done. And if you go back and look 10 years ago or so when their roof was replaced, it was just as big of an investment. And this is the way it was done.
Did the bids go to the superintendent to get opened? They
I believe they there's another firm that was I'm trying to think of the name of the firm now that has been running all that.
So So the engineering firm
Yeah.
ran ran the bids and opened the bids in a you know
I believe I'm not sure but I just know it's been done and it's all set.
Okay.
You can check with Valerie. I will love to check with Valerie. Okay. so we have no information on the renovation. So it's a town building. There's no information on the renovation.
Ann, are you still Ann? That that is a town building. A town owned building.
Why are we not informed is in charge of it?
Ann, why are we not informed about that? It's town money, taxpayer money also. Why don't we know anything about that?
It's available. Just contact the board of ed. Go to the board of ed meetings and you'll see it.
None of us knew about it. We've been waiting for months. Nothing has happened.
Eric doesn't know anything. Jeff doesn't know anything provided to the board of select.
Nothing was provided.
Administrator to the building department.
Okay.
Carol, did you know about this? I just to answer the question,
I heard there was an RFP going out. Yes, I did. Eric,
what else did you know about it?
So, you're not representing the town either?
you know what? That's uncalled for to stand here and accuse
No, it's called This is definitely wrong.
No, no. You asked me a question. I told you that I had heard an RFP was going out. That's all that I heard was an RFP was going out. I don't know what the process is. I don't know anything. Eric, did you have any of the information on that RFP when it was sent out, who was handling it or any of that?
several months ago
because I believe you're the person who told me the RFP was was going out. So, I was told they were submitting an RFP,
and I informed the board of selectmen, which is why it was on the agenda,
and I stated to the board that I didn't have any information on the RFP, nor did I have a copy of the RFP. that hasn't changed. I still don't have a copy of the RFP. I still don't have any details of the RFP. it's I don't either. And I didn't ask for one either when you said it was going out. So Scott, for you to point fingers and say all this about that Carol, I don't think there's no right doing that.
I don't I Scott, I actually think you're wrong to point at Carol like that. Honestly, I'll sit there. I'll give Carol and No.
And Ann, too. She gave
Absolutely not.
Jeff, she gave you a rundown of the information she had. So that's what I did. just don't think that it's right to sit here and point fingers and start hollering at each other and making accusations to
work selectman Murray was the member of our board that was on that he was asked to be on that committee and he's not here decided that he could not attend today's meeting understandable personal issues that's fine still not the way that the two boards should be dealing with a town building. That's not the way it's supposed to work. It's not the way it should work. And and I I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that the people that were on that committee did it the correct way. But Carol, I'll sit there and I'll go from you past town clerk. Shouldn't all those bids go to the town clerk's office and be opened in an appropriate manner?
So, I will tell you historically all town bids used to come into the clerk's office. We would stamp them in, keep them locked in the vault, and at the time of opening, we would walk down to the community room with Eric, the town administrator, prior first selectman with those bids, and they would be opened in public pre presence. I have not received any I in my 26 years, I never did have a school RFP come into my office. The roof project was not did not come through. The $400,000 roof project did not come through your building.
No, the library project did. Okay. The library windows, all the library bids, things like that. But I did not have those RFPs. No. And some of the RFPs stayed. Just so you're aware, it depended on the administrator as to whether or not they were handled through the administrator's office because Eric, I believe there were a couple of RFPs that did just strictly go through your office. Is that correct
for what?
I don't know, but there were a couple that I didn't even know there was an RFP out.
Okay. But we they've all everything was published on the town's website and everything was you know the mail to address was the town clerk's. I don't think that we did any RFPs where we didn't have them sent to the town clerk's office. If we did, I don't recall it. We we need we need to just outline procedures for all town buildings and it needs to be approved and we got to get it to a town meeting and get it done so that it's not the board of selectmen that sits there and says this is how it's going to happen. We have the entire legislative body of this town update sit there and say hey listen this is how things should be done. We should all work together. We should all sit there and get every bid going through the town clerk's office because
you have the idea that the town does the school stuff and that's not right. The school, as you can see from Carol, has always done that themselves.
Then an then it's a
that's all I'm telling you.
I I'll sit there and I'll go when we rebuilt that tech that that school and we built that school, there's no way it went through the that board. Just not how this town was run in the past. I'll guarantee it. And maybe what we maybe what we've done wrong is we don't have a board of selectment member on that board so that we have no internal communication. That that's probably our biggest problem. okay listen we've got no information. We have a difference of of opinion a significant difference of opinion as to how these things should be handled for the benefit of the entire community. and we need to sit there and and and work on it
and if we are going to write a policy on and procedure on RFPs and handling of RFPs then we'll do that but
I I don't see anything other than how it's been handled in the past and
I have nothing on the I'm not on the board of education. I just go to the meetings and listen. That's all I do. I'm not telling I can't tell them what to do.
But they can tell you what to do.
That's my
They don't tell me what to do. I just reported because it's on the agenda here.
Nope. That's okay.
And you got the information, but we didn't get the information.
You can look go to the board of ed meeting.
We didn't realize that that's where we had to go look. We would think being the board of select selectmen that we would have that information.
Well, just thinking that it's a town building and we're spending $300,000 of taxpayer money that
Okay.
No problem. Understood. Let's just move on because we'll sit there and stick on this one for a long time. 8G donation for Hopenhajes.
Sure. If you remember back several meetings ago, we asked where you wanted to what how you wanted to deal with the money that was donated to the town from the running race that used town assets and always contributes back to the town. And the board was going to come back with ideas about how and where to spend the money. anyone?
Eric, is that the money that in the past went into that recreation commission liability account where you got the safety vests and things like that for residents?
well, the safety vest didn't come from that. The last thing that I know of that we spent the Hop and Hodgeges money on was for the picnic table that went down by Lake Road in that little picnic area off of the brook on the town's property adjacent to the rail trail.
I I sort of remember vaguely like three or four years ago we put it in specific recreation line items and that's certainly that could be appropriate. I don't have any preconceived notions where the money should go.
I mean, if the treasur is just looking for a quick place to put it, that would be a nice area because if we do need picnic tables down at the new pickle ball courts and that the money would be easy access. Yeah, to be honest, I think she probably has already found a spot to stuff it in just simply because she's already had to close out that fiscal year and we got that in the last fiscal year. I can find out where I'm sure wherever it was placed it's still spendable. so I can ask for that. The the the question really is, do you have any specific that you want to spend a little bit of extra budgetary money that that you have? Is there anything particular that you see as a a good place to spend it?
How much was it?
You have to ask me that. I have to look at last meeting. I think it's about $1,500. Something in that range.
Okay. Thank you. Well, why don't we, Carol, why don't we make a motion to put it in the recreation committee with explicit use of of spending it on Well, actually,
I think Eric said she already put it in some Cheryl already found a liability account to put that in, right, Eric?
Yeah. And I suspect it actually already is in the wreck liability account that it's not really so much cuz she already had to make a decision on where to go because that year is closed out. So the the question is really is there something that we have a good use for that money because that's something given to the town basically you know by the contractor and I would think it would be spent on some sort of recreation or public facing improvement
just hold on to it and if we do need anything at the new pickle ball courts in the playscape area that's extra money we could use.
That would be a wonderful use of those funds. And and what we should do is anytime we have things like that that are generating additional money, we should try to put them back into something similar. so,
okay.
Okay.
a little later too.
8H NIP program request for expenditure.
Yeah, I apologize. you had asked me to ask Megan Lai for more details on exactly and give you a full-blown project proposal for that. when I was reviewing for this board of selectman meeting, I realized in my notes that I had never talked to her about that. So, I did reach out to her last week, but I know she's pretty sick right now. So, she had hoped to have it for this meeting, but we didn't. So, let's put that one. Hopefully I will have a presentation for you for the next meeting from Megan.
Okay. we're going to go on to item nine, new business. A quote for the installation of the sub panel for the community center. The quote is on page 39 of the packet. It's from Lenco for $3,18.17. Is that accurate?
Yeah. So there's two quotes there for two things that can be done independently. basically we took out the quote from the original building. The original building was supposed to have a second sub panel located directly under the kitchen right from the beginning. but that was one of the things we cut out to get under our milliondoll cap. the problem is the main panel is completely full. We couldn't even pull off a breaker in the existing panel without going to thin line breakers to supply the dishwasher. So Rick has suggested doing two things up front. The first is put in a sub panel now and take some of the circuits out of the existing panel and transfer it into the sub panel. And the second thing is we had always anticipated that building being on the same generator backup when we replace the generator. the the problem is is that we have a building that is a public building that is not on any sort of backup. Unlike the town hall, the town hall will still function with the power loss. the community center would be completely dead and would be unheated with no power to the building. So what we had talked about and it turns out it's smarter to go ahead and put the automatic transfer switch in now at the same time you rewire the sub panel because essentially you don't have to do any rework in the main panel when you do it. So, I'm proposing we do both
of these items at once at the same time and that way we have some way to tap a line for the for the dishwasher because right now we don't have any way to supply electrical power to the dishwasher. Now, I think longer term, what probably would be smart is to put a third small electrical panel in the utility room, which shares an adjacent wire with the kitchen. So, that way we can wire both the dishwasher and the the hood because we don't have a circuit for that either. as well as provide for future expansion. So, I would like to do these two now. and then once that is done, I'm trying to get a quote out of Rick for for wiring the dishwasher in the kitchen, but he just didn't have that ready yet.
Where are you getting the funding?
this will be taken out of the multi-use building fund.
Okay.
The transfer switch is going where, Eric?
the transfer switch will be going right next to the main service panel. And the reason is we can get a generator in in an emergency. but without an automatic transfer switch, it's much more difficult to wire legally to the main panel. you know, it's much simpler if the ATS is already there. and since we're we know we're going to end up doing the generator at some point when we get funding, you know, we might as well do that portion now. The transfer is going to transfer to the main panel.
So we it is it is designed to be a whole building backup. so it will cover it will so the power will then come in from the utility panel into the automatic transfer switch and from the automatic transfer switch into the main panel which then feeds the sub panels
and into the sub panel.
Correct.
All right. So these two projects you have are are basically $8,100 somewhere in the ballpark.
Correct. And do you have a like a number that you think the transfer switch is going to cost?
that is the second estimate that is right there includes the transfer switch.
Transfer switch. And what was the piece that he hasn't included yet?
Essentially a third sub panel. So the question is once you've got actual space that you can put a big enough breaker because the dishwasher is a 220 volt like 60 amp load because these are dishwa these commercial dishwashers have a wickedly high heating element high powered heating element because they have to be able to sterilize in less than like a two and a half minute cycle. So to do that, he can't tap the main service panel with that because there's no room in the main service panel to do it. So anyway you cut it, there has to be at least one sub panel in. And then once this sub panel is in, then the decision can be made to either just wire that one thing or smarter would be wired to a small panel near the kitchen and then run everything from that. If that makes sense.
Well, it makes sense, but what you don't know the total for that smaller panel, the third panel. You don't know the cost.
I don't. Correct.
So, you're going to be coming back to us next month with another small project.
Presumably, and possibly one for the the venting for the kitchen because if we're ever going to use a stove, we need to get the hood installed. And I don't have bids or numbers for that yet either.
Okay.
Panel going to do the dishwasher or is is that a separate?
So you could do the dishwasher directly off this sub panel, but the problem is if you're going to bury it in the walls and bury it in the ceiling, you got to cut sheetrock each time you add a new line. So, I would rather cut sheetrock in a run across to where the utility closet is, Willy's space, and put a panel in there because I don't really care what that looks like aesthetically. And then we have much shorter runs to get to the kitchen in the future if we have to add circuits to the kitchen. They're going to
have one line come in and do the sub panel and the third panel. All right.
say that again.
One wire coming in to feed the sub panel.
Correct.
And then that's going to feed the sub panel is going to feed the third or is it just going to branch and go to the third panel?
Is it?
No. I I would probably you would run straight from the main service panel to a second sub panel. You wouldn't go main to a sub panel and the sub panel off the sub panel. it would be more logical just to have two you know two breakers, one for the first sub panel, one for the second sub panel.
Okay.
And we don't actually have to do the automatic transfer switch at the same time, but it's cheaper to do them both at once than to do one and come back and do the other later. Would we be able to do all three at the same time? It might be more cost effective and we're taking it out of the multi-use building fund anyway, right?
I think it's possible. And if I had had the third quote from Rick already, I would have included it in the packet, but I did not.
Okay, so let's approve these two. Carol, I mean, I'm gonna I I I really do think we should move this this along out of a multi-use building fund to sit there and execute this because Rick has been very good to the community.
He has. So, can we guesstimate maybe double what the estimate that we have on these two?
Well,
Eric, would that be safe? I I don't really know a lot about electrical quotes, but if we think
we can get you think we can get Rick to do it all for 10 grand,
but we might be running a follow of certain other things. So, how about we sit there and just approve this and then the third
you just sent us an email.
Third smaller sub panel should be Carol if I'm reading this right. The I would think I would think it's closer to the top quote, the $3,000 quote. That's just me because it's a small sub panel, right, Eric? Isn't that what you just said? I mean, if there's going to be additional cost,
but then you said the hood and other things.
Well, so I I frankly don't have the time right now to go out and figure out what we need to do for the hood. it's been something that's been on my project list for quite a while because I feel like the kitchen's incomplete. in my case, it's just a bandwidth issue, but I know we've got to do these two things anyway, and I have quotes from them from Rick. So, I would like to and there's other stuff I would like him to do there, but I know these things are a prerequisite to whatever else I'm going to do anyway. So, I figure I would present these to you now and as soon as I have more information about what I could do, I will present it to the board. Okay. So, I'm going to make a motion that we authorize Eric to spend $8,100 out of the multi-use building
fund to add a a second a second panel in the community senior community center. and install I'll rephrase that. Going to make a motion to authorize the town administrator to spend $8,100 to do electrical up updates required for the community/ senior center and to take that out of the multi-use building fund.
I'll second.
Okay, Carol seconded. Any further discussion on this? Okay. Ann,
hi.
Earl Lee,
hi.
Scott Person,
hi.
Jeff Magcguire, I for nothing. And then Eric, please come back to us next month with the other items so that we know what we're doing. And one thing that we had been asked and I thought I saw in some of our documentation is the the button for the door installed
the Yeah, that's been in for quite a while.
And and everybody is happy with that?
Yes. And by the way, Rick did that one. Rick paid for that one. He did not charge the town for that.
Okay. C and D are, moving to the end. 9E, the Kerma refund check. it's on page, 42 with a packet, $5,92. Does anyone
Yeah.
So, for those of you who don't know, Karma, the towns essentially are self-insured. In years where the overall loss rate is fairly low, they return to the members an equity distribution based on your costs and you know how you've done. So we got $5,92 back.
Third panel. Carol, Carol, do do we need to talk about something?
No, we're good. Okay.
You know, you could that would be a totally legitimate way to do that is to ask that this be applied to the electrical upgrades for the senior center. That would be a
I was calling you to tell you I have a family emergency and I'm really sorry, but I have to go right now. I'm really sorry.
No problem.
Sorry. Right. Carol, turn your computer off.
Okay.
listen, go take care of it. everybody,
I would sit there and tell you, so we have three members. Why don't we just put it in the multi-use building fund?
also I see the check was made out to the town and the board of education. Have you considered talking to Valerie? No, because Valerie and the board of education does not pay the kerma bill. If they paid half the bill, I would be happy to give them half the money.
Do you want us to talk to a man?
I just was wondering because it was made out to both. I had I just wanted to ask that question.
Okay.
Yeah. No, that's legitimate and you know, long that's a big long-term question. I've always in my head said it's all tax dollars. So, I didn't have a problem when I got here. The town paid the insurance for the town and the school. I mean, we don't pay RAM. Ram pays their separately. but we've always included that in a town budget, even though almost half of that expense really does occur on the board of ed side. I suppose that would be a board of selectman, board of finance decision whether you want to continue that. in my head it's it's all town money, so it doesn't really matter, but it does make the town's budget bigger and the board of ed's budget smaller by doing that. So,
okay.
And do you think we should charge the board of ed?
Not necessarily.
Okay. All righty.
like you said, It would change the budgets overall both ways.
Well, as Eric said, it's all town taxpayer money regardless of if we spend it on the board of education and the and the school or if we spend it on on the town. The only issue is that we as a board are here to understand all of the issues that impact all of the organizations within the town. And that's our job is to evaluate and prioritize the the way that the budget gets presented to the community. And that's where I always have the biggest problem. My biggest problem with you is prioritizing what is important. You know, it's not just a one-way street. And that's all I ever perceive in my my stomach. It's a one-way street. We as a community, and I am, and I've said this before, I will say this again. I I am all for educating our children to the absolute best that we can within our budgetary means.
That's it. And that's what our job is as a board of selectman is to prioritize for the the benefit and for to watch out for all of the residents of this town. That's our job and and that's not always what I think happens with this board and all of our members. So, okay. I'll make a motion that we move the kernel money to the multi-use business, the multi-use building fund.
Second that, Jim.
Scott second. Good idea.
Any further discussion?
All right. Ann
I.
Scott Person.
Hi,
Jeff Maguire. I All right. we have approval of minutes. We had a meeting Monday, August 11th. That was our regular meeting.
I'll make a motion that we approve the regular minute meetings for August 11th, 2025.
I'll second that.
All right. All those in favor? Anne Cr.
Scott Person. Jeff Magcguire. I three in a row. we have a special meeting and those minutes are on page 49. A special meeting for Tuesday, September 2nd. those meetings are page 49 and page 50. Anybody have any questions? I'll make a motion that we approve the special meeting minutes for September 2nd, 2025.
Second that.
And Crerme seconded that. all those in favor and Creme
I.
Person I. Jeff Magcguire I. Three nothing. Okay. the treasurer's report that starts on page 52. Anybody have any questions? Eric, can you I do have some issues. Can you sit ask the treasurer to sit there and include last year's at the next meeting? So, we sit there and see where we were at for the fiscal year ended June 30th. I'd like to see that until it's finally closed. and then if at all possible a balance sheet again would really be helpful because that would tell us a consolidated balance sheet. I don't think we need the entire all broken out but it will tell us our cash balance and our cash position and it will tell us our fund balances. it would be very helpful.
Okay. All right. anybody have any questions related to the the information presented by the the finance department and the treasurer? Okay, Eric, are there any specific areas where we're going to have a problem? I think potentially salary for the community center because we've essentially back paid Tess and paid Haley at the same time. so some consideration's going to have to be made for that because we will be over that salary line.
Okay. Can you get us an update on that for the next meeting? And so we can sit there and present that also to the board of finance and get them understanding of where we're at and and what assumptions am I making for that? Am I making the assumption that Haley is staying on permanently or am I making the assumption that Haley is staying on through the end of her contract?
Is that those actually are two different? Your first assumption has to be that Haley stays on till the end of the contract. And then your second assumption is the information that we received from Haley and Tess outlining how they split their positions. And we need to review that and understand how that would impact the overall budget. And then we also need to be prepared to go to the board of finance and ask for more money if that's the case. you know, okay, if we choose as a board to go in the direction that they have outlined, which I I think it's great the two of them are working together as well as they are.
you know, it's not the easiest of situations. We app we thank Haley for for for, you know, working with Tess and Tess for working with Haley. Thank you very much. We appreciate it greatly. And you know obviously you have people like Ela Bukart who's at the facility and I I know that Ann is at the facility a lot so I'm assuming that we'll hear you know how it is all going and u we need to make some
also at the facility.
Yeah.
Scott I I need to retire don't I?
Okay. we need to make decisions on that. we need to make them before
good decisions, good responsible decisions.
Yes, we need to make those decisions based on where we're at with everything and how the everybody can and really it's how we benefit the community the most. Even us a little bit more money. We need to do what's right for the town and you know
get the best value out of that building that we possibly can. So,
you look at the town calendar now and it's full of the community center colors.
I do like the colors.
Full.
Yeah.
Okay. we will sit there and get to that. So, Eric, that's for next month. We need to look at that in more detail and understand what what we can present and move forward there.
Okay. And then the only other thing just to be aware of right now is that I got notified by Wall-E we're required to sign. We have a maintenance contract for the new tabulators. and it's definitely more than the what the registars have been budgeting. So there will be an overage of about $2,700 on the part of the registars for maintenance
and that's the first time we've paid for maintenance on these new tabulators. So
new tabulators. Yes. So, it's not as if we we we we made there was a a difference in what the actual versus what we estimated the cost to be, but we never had any experience on these tabulators and what they would charge.
No.
So, this is this is a this is something that is not it's not on the registars. It's more we were required to get new tabulators. They we got the new tabulators. Now, we have additional expenses related to those tabulators and we have to incur it. So, we'll figure that out.
yep. I'm just notifying you since it falls under the $5,000 threshold where I need permission from the board of finance, but I do need to report it to the board of selectment. So, I have done so.
Correct. But in reality, you should also report that to board of finance so they understand what to look in the next cycle so that we do it correctly.
Sure. All right. we'll move on to the tax collector's report. So, yes, Kate gave us a notice. She's been away on vacation. She's going to update these these reports are not updated. There's no real information in this report or finalized information because she was on vacation.
Okay.
Correct.
We'll sit there and deal with that.
that will be for next month.
there is a list of uncollected taxes. So from pages 63 down to pretty far down. so Kate pretty much does everything that's above, you know, we we top out at $4,400 of back paid taxes and that goes down to page 87. page 88 is total tax refunds that need to be paid back. There's five different taxes due or refunds due for a total of $984.33. So, I'll make a motion that we approve the tax refunds totaling $984.33 for the period through September 11th, 2025.
Scott Person seconded. further discussion. All those in favor or how we vote for May?
I Scott Person.
Jeff Maguire. I so three nothing. Okay. Departmental reports. Does anybody have any questions in the departmental reports which start on page 90?
Okay.
you read the blight report even though we didn't get to have it on our meeting anymore, but I still read it.
It's important to me. He he's he's been updating consistently updating.
Wayne's doing a really good job of that. Yep.
There are some questions that I would I wanted to ask on that one is like how there was one issue that was on this report. it was about a split parcel that was being sold and I wanted to understand Eric and I don't need it in the meeting but I wanted I would like to understand how that is identified and you know moved forward and the other one that I wanted to understand and I will ask you about this outside of the meeting was there was a an Andover sportsman club complaint and there was no action on it and nothing done because of a Connecticut general statute. And I'd like to understand what that Connecticut general statute was and why the noise complaint wasn't you know wasn't dealt with. I'd like to understand
first of all the town does not have a noise ordinance or nothing in the zoning regulations regarding noise. So there's nothing the town can only
refer to state statutes and the state statutes have a car route basically saying that shooting clubs it's very h hard to go after a shooting club for a noise complaint.
Okay. Unless you have a noise ordinance.
Well, but even if you have a noise ordinance, I think it's pretty hard to go after an existing club. The shooting club is does a really good job of keeping the noise under control.
Okay.
They don't do it all the time and they do it Tuesday nights. That's it. And then on the weekends they don't they're not up there shooting all the time.
Okay.
So I think you're talking in terms of the lot splitting. That was one that occurred on Wales Road and that has been resolved. The owner agreed to take that off the stop claiming that he could sell that until such time as he actually
there was one lot, Jeff.
I understand it was one lot. What I was asking was how within our process did we identify that?
That's it.
Yeah. I think somebody saw the real estate
listing for it and questioned it.
To be honest, more often than not, it's the assessor's office that that keeps their eye on stuff and points these things out to me and I pass it on to the appropriate partner.
Okay. All right. any other questions on any other reports? Obviously, the the state police the the trooper the troop K report was questioned by one of the residents. So hopefully next month we'll see a little bit more activity there. building department report $11,700 in total permits. Not enough but better than other months.
Still not enough. any
we still haven't gotten detailed rep a report about the the permits the exact permits and what they were for for just that just we have a number that's it we used to get that Eric don't you remember back in the day
well they they actually they actually have 12 B building permits six electrical permits one gas permit mechanical
Yeah but it used to say what the permit was and what address it was
yeah Eric, that's actually a question. Do we have that ability to do that off of the new software?
You have the ability to log onto the system and get every bit of information about every building permit that's ever been filed electronically in the last since 2021 when this system is you can search it however you desire.
So, you're telling that information is all available is what you're trying to tell us. And you're trying to tell us do some work is what you're trying to tell us.
Well, I mean, if if if you have specific questions, and I do from time to time. I have questions about some particular thing that gets pulled, I look it up.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that information is available to you.
I will look it up then, Scott. I you
is there other ways we can summarize that information?
I would consider it. I I you know it's just a question of how much information you want. We're not going to put every single building permit pulled in a month in the packet. It's just too big.
So So I could sit there and look at the building permits and look at the square footage and understand that's the estimated cost because that's 12 building permits with an estimated cost of $363,000.
You should be able to get that information.
Did I have any new house starts? I don't believe so.
Okay. Okay.
There used to be permits. The location of it, what the permit was for. I I don't see that that's a big problem to get that information or tell you what I'll do with you. I'll look I'll look on the online to the portal and sit there and see what information
Yeah. Why can't it just be given to us?
we'll talk to Lynn, too. We'll we'll see. talk to Lynn about it.
Okay.
Go online and look and see what information is available and then again we're all we're all volunteers. We love you but you know it and I know what you're saying and I get it but you know we're all volunteers right
volunteers.
Okay.
All right. any correspondence? Any other issues? Anybody want to ask any other questions on departmental reports? And actually, I'm going to move to there's no correspondence. I'm going to move to item 15, public speak before we move on to executive session so we don't keep anybody here any longer than they need to be. Elaine Bukart.
Okay, test GR.
I'm all set. Thank you, sir. All right, Diane Grineer. Oh, there she is.
There I am. I'm sorry I hadn't turned that on earlier. basically, no, I I'm all set. Good job. but just for your info, I also read the blight. I read a lot of those reports. but the blight one too, I find it very informative and because I'm nosy. but that I I'm impressed that there is a lot of work being done on the blight issue and Andover is getting to look pretty good. Pretty good. There's cleaning up a lot of those places and that's a good thing. So thank you all.
Okay, Luis Goodwin.
just thank you all for all you do and that's it. Have a good night.
Leanne Hutchinson,
thank you for the discussion about the Bunker Hill Road Bridge. I had spoken with Eric quite recently and he gave me a lot of helpful information at the time. So and as you know more questions and there were more questions and answers tonight. So hopefully it is completed on or extremely close to the deadline at the end of November. even if you know in the event that the road is even open one way it would give us a great deal of peace of mind. So thank you for the discussion that you had.
Okay. Zoom login which I thought was Elaine. Hi. No, this is Joanne Heert. I I can't get my name put on there after hosting a meeting the last time for board of finance, but no, I'm all set. Thank you so much.
Okay. I think the number 2345 is Dennis. I have a phone number 8607425475.
That's me, Leanne.
Oh, Leanne. Okay. I'm sorry. anybody that I missed? So, Elaine, are you good? Biata, you good?
Yeah, I'm sorry. It's it's Elaine. I couldn't figure out how to unmute for some reason. I've been listening and I do want to say I appreciate that you're recognizing all the stuff that goes on at the community center. Thanks.
Okay. Viata.
Okay. All right. we have items 9 C and we were moving them to 13X. 9C discussion of public works supervisor and 9D public works maintainer 2. before we talk about those, I'd like to move to executive session. include the town administrator and the town attorney if he's still available to have discussions related to employee issues. Who's going to second that?
Second Jeff.
Scott seconded it. Okay. All those in favor I'm going to go. I got to go count. I I know they can't hear us. They can't see us. and creme
I
Scott P persona say I Scott raising your hand doesn't do anything for me
I
thank you Jeff Magcguire
I can't hear you I'm telling you I all right so let's move to executive session Eric if everyone thank you for coming
okay we are going to resume meeting after coming out of executive session at 9:4 47 on Monday, September 15th. we're going to move to item 13X, which is 9C on the original agenda, public works supervisor. We don't have anything to discuss related to the public works supervisor. we're going to go on to 139D, the public works maintainer 2. and I'm going to make a motion to authorize the town administrator to hire Georgio Tamus as a maintainer too, requiring that Mr. obtain obtain a CDL a CDL license within 6 months and require that he reimburse the cost of the CDL training if he leaves employment any time within employment of the Andover Department of Public Works anytime within 24 months from the date of hire. Second that.
Ann creme seconded that. further discussion. I will now take a call roll vote. Anne creme
I.
Lee
I.
Scott Pone
Jeff Maguire I. U 4. All right. I don't think there's anything else we need to deal. I'll make a motion that we adjourn. Second and
creme seconded. Roll call. An
I.
Lee.
I.
Scott Person.
Hi.
Jeff Maguire. I Eric. Thank you very much. we're all good. All right. Thank you very much everyone. Bye. Yep. to one.