Okay, I'm going to call to order the town of Andover special meeting for Thursday, June 12th at 7:02. the first order of business is the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. We'll go through public speak. Louise Goodwin. I'm good. Thank Thank you, Jeff. Valerie Bruno. Nothing at this time. Thank you. Joanne Heert. Well, clearly I'm here. I'm going to listen, of course, before I say too much because I want to see I guess I want to know what the ultimate purpose and the end result wanted comes out of this. I've read everything. I understand we all want to do things, you know, as a member of the board of finance, we want to do things in the correct way and in the manner that they're supposed to. I guess I'm a little surprised because I think a lot of this was very transparent and openly said in meetings that I've attended where there's been slides talking about things. So, I don't want to speak too much ahead of time. I thought it had been talked about when there was votes taken by town members. it was ultimately, you know, whatever. I'll sit back and listen to the experts. But I mean, I thought the goal of the town who all of the boards were involved in talking about it was the purpose to create the AES account and then of course fund it, you know, little by little. And to me, the perfect
way instead of a spending spree or things going to staples and paper clips or things, you know, that are needed, why not have this money go back into the board into the AES fund? So, I want to listen. I want to do things the right way, but it was pretty transparent and spoken about in multiple meetings across the year. Kimberly Persong. I'm gonna listen for now. Thank you, Jeff. Okay. so that was item two of public speak. And now we're on to item three, discussion and action on the draft audit report for the period ended June 30th, 2024 regarding the transfer of unexpended board of education appropriations to the AES capital fund. So just so everybody understands why I really am doing this is so that we start to do things correctly. So we have not as a community been doing everything in the most appropriate manner manner to effectively manage the town's resources. And I'll sit there and I'll tell you I'll tell you why this has to get voted on is because when you go through the charter as I
know Carol has and Carol you can speak to your sections that we'll discuss. there's certain roles that each group has and I will try to explain them from a very common sense standpoint. The board of selectmen has to manage the the town and evaluate all the aspects of the town. We have to take into account the the school. We have to take into account the fire department. We have to take account the library. We have to take into account all of the organizations within this within this town. Even though it's a small town, everybody needs to sit there and and be heard. And we as a group, as the board of selectmen, we have to balance all of those groups and do what is right for all of the groups. And what occurred with related to this while I understand
why we're doing it, I do not done correctly because what occurred was money went the school and and God bless the school. Joanne said it, the school sat there and didn't go out and overspend their money. They were they they had an underbudgeted amount and that money would come back to the town. Technically, what it should do is come back to the town, go into the general fund, and then from the general fund, we should have made a recommendation to move $350,000 into the AES fund to pay for the the bathroom work. I totally get that. I'm not sure everybody in the town really got it. And I'm not sure that everyone in the town, you know, had their say because I hear a lot that you know, the board of selectmen is is trying to overstep their authority. Well, in this case, we're not overstepping our authority. Our authority is to present to the board of educa, the board of finance, a budget, and including the capital funds for the town, all of the assets of the community. The school building is a town asset. The town hall is a town asset. The community center is a town asset.
The fire department is a town asset. The library is a town asset. The the the old library is a town asset. And even the asset we're tearing down, the old firehouse is a town asset. And we have to balance all of them. So what happened was the board of education members went to the board of finance and they sat there and said we have an underbudgeted amount we want to move into the AES capital fund and everybody needs to understand the AS capital fund is a town account not a board of education account. It is a town account. Those dollars are capital funds just like every other capital fund that we have like the road work capital fund, the bridge and culvert fund. It's a town fund that is used for specific purposes that that we are trying to save and budget for. So I sit there with everybody and I just let you know that even putting that money there, it's still a town account, just not done correctly. And I want to make sure that moving forward we do things in a correct manner and we get this voted on and hopefully that you know hopefully it will pass. I mean it's not not going to
pass and we do it correctly. That's it. That was all I was ever after. That's all I've been sitting there dealing with. And in my head, we need to sit there and outline everybody's responsibilities because people are outsizing the role that they have within the community. And listen, the board of selectmen isn't the final authority on anything the town meeting is. Unless it's written into an ordinance and it's given granted to the the board of selectmen by charter, which all of this is governed by. the town meeting is the ultimate authority because that's our form of government. So anyway, that's why I wanted to do this. So now let's let's go. Carol, I know you have issues related to the charter. Let's talk about the sections. We can bring them up. Well, the only
sections 806 C and D. Okay, let's So C and D, right? So let's read them. Right. So these are these are section 806 expenditures and accounting. Correct. Okay. C one. When an agency excluding the board of education shall desire to transfer funds within its appropriation from the funds set apart for one purpose to another, such agency shall file a request with the town administrator. The town administrator shall examine the matter and with the concurrence of the board of selectmen shall have the power to approve requests to accumulative amount of $2,000 for any one department, office or agency in any fiscal year. Do you want to keep going through all of those or is your biggest issue related to excluding the local board of education? Excluding the local board of ed. And then the last sentence of section two that says the cumulative total of 10% of the agency's total budget for the fiscal year. Correct.
Okay. So let's just get to the to the the biggest section the biggest part of this that I will sit there and deal with you on. It's expenditures and accounting. It's transferences between expenditure line items. We are not talking about making a transfer between an expenditure line item. We're talking about making a transfer to a capital fund, but it says from the funds set apart for one purpose to another. Correct. Related to expenditures. Expenditures. All right. That's that's an accounting term that you know when you sit there and you deal with it. Sure. And it it would be what Eric and the board of selectmen do. I'll be sure. I'll be done. So, okay. Any other question that I have? When I was talking with Eric and Dennis and Bill D. Roger. we did look at another tab in the budget with Eric where it was clearly shown that the board of finance was removing $100,000 that we would have been taxed on for the upcoming fiscal year and instead put that $361,000 into the AES capital fund. Yeah. And it was also explained in a presentation. So, it was part of the budget hat we voted on. As far as I can see, it was it was a presentation to the town capital budget that sat there and said so a change funding to AES capital fund for school infrastructure repairs to be funded from an from any AES surplus. I
don't know correct from any AES stuff. Okay. So any any yeah 100 100,000k which is what the board of selectment was putting in that fund because before we knew the surplus right we put that in there right now funded from as surplus 361 recently added to the A's capital fund from prior budget surplus. So in essence the board of of of finance was informing the community that they made a change to the last year's budget without anyone voting on it. They they made a a global change and and yes, Carol, did they put it there? And did different people within the the group know that it was done, but to put it up in a presentation or to put it on a blackboard is different from having a someone vote on that being moved, but they reduced the hund,000 that we were going to be taxed on for this upcoming fiscal year starting July 125. Correct. Then the only thing that we voted on at the budget meeting when it was done was the reduction of the $100,000 because that was the budget the board of selectment presented to the board of finance and then the board of finance sat there and and reduced the budget recommendation that we made by $100,000. Why? because at their meeting they voted to sit there and move money and and and listen this goes into my whole issue like that transaction was done simply by the
board of finance without understanding or even even sitting there and evaluating the overall total needs of the community and and I sit there and this moves forward. This is a something something for me moving forward because to me this is common sense. This is there are certain things that have to be done and have to be done properly. We all have to work together. There is no doubt about it that we have to work together better, but we also have to understand what our roles are and not our roles. So in this case, Carol, I'll disagree with you in that putting it up in a presentation and putting it there and saying a change to the AS capital fund for the school was done. Nobody in the town meeting voted on that. They knew that the board of education did it. They didn't vote on it. It was also in a tab that Eric had on his desktop computer showing me the transfers into the different funds. So the Okay, so Eric Eric is on the phone. I just have to ask him. Eric, was that related to the prior year the way that the prior year financial statements were were done? How was that done? What what is Carol referring to? So when the board of selectmen was going through their budget process, one of the documents that I gave you was a list of all the capital funds that the town had, what the sources of revenue for them, and what the expected expenses of in
that year. after the board of finance made the decision to transfer in the money from the board of education and at the same time made a motion to reduce the amount being funded into that capital fund from the budget process by $100,000. I updated that spreadsheet. the board of finance did not share that spreadsheet you know or most of the capital summary that they have with the public at the budget meeting. they just didn't but yes the board of finance certainly had had a document listing all the funding for all the capital funds what amounts were in each fund and what the funding sources were. That's what Carol's referring to. And there are quite a few other funds on that tab of the spreadsheet listed that I don't know if they're on what we voted on. That's all I'm saying. We never Yeah, but we never vote on any of
those, Carol. Those are all balance sheet accounts for the town. So the funds end up being a balance sheet item that sits there and says we have this much in cash in the general fund and then the the general fund is broken down to these funds and some of these funds actually have their own bank account. It it's but it's a balance sheet item. You wouldn't vote on that. but if funds are being added to it, it should be shown. the people should be able to see what they're being taxed on and the money that's being added in there and I understand what you're saying and we do have to do things correctly, but this is done. Are we going to go back and look at everything that was incorrectly done? You know, things that were signed off, expenditures that were made. Well, actually, I mean, this is this is we should be should be doing this. So, you're saying that we should go in and start reviewing everything and anything that wasn't it's not our job to review that. That's what the board of board of finance should be doing. Carol, they should have done all this. Who came up with this and why did this why is this coming up something with a fiscal year
ending june 30 of 2024? The audit for that year was just handed out as a draft audit. Now, somebody told me the final audit is there. I don't know. I haven't seen that yet. But I just think it's something board of finance did it. Whether it's correct or not is still gray to me. that's the point. And and if they would have done it, if it was for fiscal year ending June 30, 2025 and they came right now and asked for that money to be transferred, they would be well within their right doing that. If the board of finance approves it and it goes to a town budget meeting, correct? And what what should have happened, listen Carol, what should have happened is that number should have been on this year's budget and there should have been money moved from the general fund to cover those dollars. That's exactly how it should have happened. Not not a vote, sorry, Ann. Not a vote of 6 to affect the prior fiscal year budget because no one you can't tell me that anyone in at the town meeting voted on that. Go ahead, Ann. Well, we didn't have a lot of votes at the town meeting, but we had the referendum
and the town approved the budget as it is for next year for 25 to 26. Are you saying you want to take this money out of the 20 was it 23 24 budget year? This was already done and you're saying you want to change that or are you just saying you want to change it for the future? No, I want to approve it so that in essence it was done correctly because right now in my mind that vote is is is not appropriate. It doesn't it's it wasn't the board of finance did not have the authority to sit there and move those funds to a capital fund. So, so in essence, what happened was the board of education went to the board of finance said, "We're we have an underbudgeted amount. We'd like it moved to the AAS capital fund." The board of finance took a vote. Only the board of fun, right? Took a vote and sat there and said, "Okay, we're going to move all this money into the AS capital fund for use for sole use on the building of this on the school building." Right? understanding and that the asset is a town asset. That bathroom needs to be fixed. I'm okay with this. Just not done right. So, well, it's been done. It's done been audited. We can't change the past. There's a lot of things you might say haven't been right. It's true. But you're not going
to be changing those. The only thing we can do is for the future now. the one thing that we can do is we can make sure that our audit is correct because you know being a being a again the auditor was going with information that was presented to him by by the town administrator and the board of finance and he believes they acted under the proper proper authority to do it. I'm in my mind telling you that that's incorrect. Okay. So now what happens if we sit there and we we we don't go to town meeting, we don't approve it, we go to the auditor, right? What's the auditor going to potentially do? He's going to make a correction to his audit and we're going to have a finding in the audit like we're going to have a change, Carol. It's going to move the money from the AAS capital fund to the general fund. I don't think so. that you can you can believe that and and it's okay. That's why we're here. That's why we're So, you're telling us that the auditor Yeah. If he looks and deems that this was incorrectly done, Yeah. he's just going to take that money and transfer it back into the general fund and an auditor has the authority to do that. He has to determine whether those those those entries are done correctly. Okay. Valerie, Valerie, hold on for one second, will you? I get your hands up. I don't like hands up in meetings. I mean,
so Okay. So, the auditor can transfer money from No, the auditor The auditor doesn't transfer anything. The auditor takes transactions and evaluates the transactions whether they're done correctly or not done correctly. Okay. And then that would be a finding in our audit. He would go back to the treasurer and say make the entry correctly. Let's sit there and say we went and we said that is not done that is that is not done with the appropriate authority right not done with the appropriate authority and you go and you go through it I mean things have to be done with the appropriate authority there's nothing anyone wants to sit
there and troll me I I said it at the board at the town meeting that I was at. I'm like, who voted on this? Because no one voted on it. The town meeting didn't vote on it. It didn't go from the board of selectment to the board of finance to get voted on. And that's okay. I I just ask who voted on it because the board of selectment is not the final end all beall on a on something like this. Had to be in front of the town meeting and get voted on. So, Valerie, go ahead because I know you want to speak on behalf of the board of education. No, actually, it's not on behalf of the board of education. I just feel right now like that you're you're offering some misinformation here to the general public respectfully, Mr. Maguire. We give the same auditor as you. They audit the board of education and the town every single year. So I feel I do feel like the information that you are currently giving to the public is this auditor didn't know. this auditor doesn't know and oops there's a mistake and this auditor just has misinformation and respectfully and I'm not trying to be confrontational but we have a good auditor who has done right by this town on my side and your side and I feel like you're trying to make
the general public feel that this audit was done wrong and it was not the auditor has all excuse me the auditor has all of the information every one of the accounts every transaction and it was done and it was it went through and our audit does not have a finding for something being wrong for that. So respectfully I understand that you don't like the way it was done between the board of education and again at the start of this Mr. Magguire, you said the board of selectment oversees the fire department, the library, the education. They do not oversee. We have a board of
education. And if you look at all of the state statutes, the board of education oversees education. And so I You own the building, Valerie? Because I Let's go. Do you own the building? Does the board of education own the building? The board of education oversees that building by state statute. Do you own the building? Neither do you. The town of Andover. The town of Andover selectmen does not over does not own the building. The town of Andover does and there is a board of education. So respectfully, I just wanted to intervene to say we all have the same auditor. The
auditor knows year after year what goes on. He does. He does. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Valerie. So, anyway, ladies and gentlemen, the auditor doesn't read the charter every single activity that goes on. And so, Carol, like you, you're you're a charter person. Just saying. If you go back to the auditor and you sit there and say by charter this was not done correctly, then the auditor has to make a decision as to what he's going to do. My recommendation is to go to a town meeting and get it approved and move on. That's it. To get approved to get the transfer properly approved. I am not sitting there saying take the money away. Please understand that. I am saying do it correctly and you know just so happens just so happens just so happens according to the superintendent I happen to be
a CPA I happen to sit there and have done audits before and do those types of things and I'm telling you in a in an audit like this you either follow the charter and I know that our auditor is a very good auditor but he didn't read our charter he was just told that this is what the board of finance wanted to do with their number. Okay, I'm coming back and I'm telling you the board of finance didn't have the authority to do it. You can sit there and say let's not have a meeting and we'll move forward. Right? I will tell you moving forward we are going to change everybody everybody's got to get together and say these are the rules. This is how it is. You know the superintendent likes to sit there and say that they have total authority that building. Do you know that that building is a town building? The board of selectmen is is the the legislative authority related to the town of Andover. And guess what? We five members have a responsibility to that building just like every other building. Just like every other road and every other culvert in this town, our responsibility is not internally not internal and not internal. Not maintenance. Not talking maintenance. I'm not talking cleaning. I'm not talking any of that. That's all board of education capital improvements and the building in in total are town assets. So I listen we don't have to waste any more time. I've said my piece it's not done correctly. Everybody we can either have a town meeting or you guys can vote no to not have a town meeting. We vote
no to not have a town meeting. In my mind the town meeting did not vote to approve that transfer. So, we good. Jeeoff, I have a couple questions. Just a couple comments. Sure. first is the the the name of the actually the AES fund. It should not be the AS capital fund. It should be the AS school fund just like it has the building fund and we have the firetruck fund. The word capital should be taken out of there because if we use this capital money to fix a bathroom, fixing a bathroom is an expense. It is not a capital expenditure. As a CPA, you know what a capital versus an expense is. An expense is a repair or a replacement. Capital is like putting the solar panels on. That's adding value to a structure or a building. If we call this a capital fund and we want to fix the bathroom, we're kind of tying our hands here because we really need to change that
and make it the AES school building fund. Number two, I know when we built the community center, we ended up with all those two payments of ARPA funds. We did a similar thing. We put that in the budget and we put it as a line item and it was approved at town meeting and the community center was built. That is very similar to what we did here because it was actually a capital improvement to the town. That is a capital expense. I I that's that's adding value to this. And third, I mean, I went through Eric's slides that were there and we we followed a similar process when we did that. And unless the auditor is screaming and says, you know, you guys got to fix this. I mean, I'm kind of t I'm kind of torn right now like what to do because I really don't think I I I think everybody had a chance to look at the I mean, we voted for it at town meeting whether we're going to send it to referendum or
not and it was clearly in there that we were going to take that money and move it into the AES fund. I mean, I saw it. I knew we were taking $100,000 out of of from taxation. So, so, you know, I'm torn on this because I I I get what you're saying, but on the other hand, I feel like, you know, we followed the same process that we followed with the community center funds, and that was a significantly three times the amount of money that we're talking here. So, if we're going to go back and do this, are we going to go back and fix all these other things that we've kind of had a little bit of oversight on? But, because I think we did the community center right. I actually think we were correct on the way we did that. And I mean, look, you're right. The bathrooms need to be fixed and it is it's an expense, but I
would like to see the the name of that fund renamed to AES building fund just like all our other funds like firetruck. We don't have a firetruck capital fund. It's a firetruck fund. that's the only one that's the only one I know of. That's the only one I know of now that has capital in it that I'm aware of. So, we should probably name it a because look, that's fixing those bathrooms is not a capital investment. That's that's a repair. It's a repair. I would sit there and go, Jeff, it's the same issue as the roof. That's a repair. The roof repair you have a whole you I have a different view of capital because look, I've been doing I've been doing facilities for 20some years and I know a difference between capital expenditures and expense and this is an expense. It's not a capital expenditure. You're not you're not adding any value to the building. You're correcting something that was already there. You're you're doing a repair. It's a repair. Can I just ask a question? Because this wasn't an audit finding. So, how did this come about? Why why are we here talking about this today? Because I I don't think it was the board of finance. They
took vote to transfer Yes, it's me. I told I brought this up because it's the vote which was taken by the board of finance and it it's not a it's not a valid vote as far as I'm concerned and you think that we have the right to overturn something that the board of finance did if it's incorrect. Yeah. I mean, and I'm not even telling you, Carol, that it's the board of select men's vote. It's not the board of selectman's vote. I understand that, but we would have to be overturning their vote and then forcing it to go. Well, we would be overturning the town, Carol. We'd be overturning the town meeting because we took this to the town
meeting, right? We did take the town meeting. And to quote, Jeff, it was the the town meeting is the governing body. If you guys believe that putting this up on a on a on a PowerPoint line and sitting there saying that this is what occurred for the prior fiscal audit is a town meeting vote, then that is what your decision is. Yeah, but Jeeoff, what is the difference between this and what we did with the community center? What is the difference? What's the difference? I would sit there and go, Jeff, when we sat there and did that, right, I would sit there and I I I can't tell you because I didn't go backwards to sit there and look at it. I would ask you, was it only done as a presentation point that we talked about at the town? Yes. Yes, it was. I remember asked me Yes. why it wasn't brought to town meeting and I said, "Well, the
board of selectment had the purview." We did at that point had the preview to to expend that money and we brought that to the town meeting and we said we wanted to use those funds for the community center and we did and the town at that time could have ejected. Did we vote on that at all? No, we we as a board No. No. I know we as a board did, but I'm asking you as did we ever bring it to the town meeting at all? Yes, we did. It was on the slideshow. Yes. Yes. But you're just saying it was on the slideshow. Yeah. But and the other thing that that at the town meeting, anybody can vote to reduce an expense or a line item and that was a line item that we had a line item to spend for the community center. Well, that's what I'm asking. Was it on a line item for in you know the way that our our charter word our charter says it like it changed like you're supposed to have five line items you're supposed to have five columns for each budget. So for the board of education budget for the board for the town budget five lines all the budget like the prior year number the over
budget the underbudget all that good stuff is supposed to be in there. And what I'm asking you, Jeff, is when we did that, did we put the ARPA funding in and then the ARPA funding out on the the budget document that the town representatives got the town that was on the power it was it was on I I I cannot speak to that, but I can guarantee I can guarantee that it was on the PowerPoint presentation. I know it was on the PowerPoint. I I know that we know that we did it, but I'm asking is it was it that would be that would be a question for Eric. That would be a question for Eric and the board of finance. We could have done it incorrectly. I not not debating that, but I know we did this one incorrectly. I think because at the time I don't think we had received the second payment yet. No, but we never we never spent I mean we didn't spend the money until we had all of the money and but we never took it to a public we never took it to a town meeting to town decide what they
wanted to spend the ARB funds on. We never did because the board of selectmen was the key player in this and they're the ones that decided where the money went. No, but the town's people had no say. Yeah, that's not right. It wasn't the town's people say. It was the board of selections say it wasn't tax dollars like this. But Scott, if we did that incorrectly, we did it incorrectly. Well, yeah, it actually was tax dollars that was returned to us or borrowed. Well, it's federal. It didn't come out of the sky. Yeah. And it should have a vote tonight or not. I want to get moving. Sure. I'll make a motion that we schedule that we set a date for a town meeting to vote on the transfer of the funds from the AES over budget to the AES building fund. I I'll go with Jeff Jeff Murray's terminology. I'll second that, Jeff. Okay. Further discussion. Okay. all those in favor? I. All those opposed? I. And Jeff, I'm going to abstain because I don't see that there's any evidence either way to make a decision on this. Okay. That's all right. I my my goal is to sit there and and move forward and do things correctly. I just don't think we did it correctly. So, all right. we're now past our item. So, we're moving on to public speak. I do not know the item for that. Anybody want to help me on the agenda? Jeff, I have a question about this. How's this going to be done next year? Oh, listen. I had already talked to Mark Brinker that we need How's this going to be done next year? Jeff Murray, what
what's your opinion on what do we do next year? Yeah. Well, I think we need to figure out, you know, we need to we need to make these funds that they're addressed correctly and for the What are you going to do with the under expenditures? We're going to we're going to actually put them in the budget as line. I would make sure that they're in their budget line items and make sure that if there if there's an issue like Jeff's saying that the town's people aren't clear with the funds, then we put it in the we put it in the the budget and we tell people that look, we're getting these school funds returned, but we're moving it to this fund because there's needed improvements that need to happen. instead of increasing taxes in the future to make these repairs. We're going to we're going to use this money that we have now to make to make to make
these needed expenses. No, it's not going to be returned to the town. You're saying again next year? That could be up to the town to decide. I mean, it's I mean, this was presented at town meeting. Somebody could have made a motion to take that $300 and some thousand dollars and put it back in the That was never brought up. Mark Brinker went over that whole slide. That that's that's inaccurate because it wasn't in this year's budget. That's my point. You are you we're missing the whole point of this. It is a priory year budget transaction done. Nobody but the board of finance members voted on this.
It was a transfer. It was a budget trans It was a budget funds transfer. Can't do it like that. It's not like an expenditure and an expenditure line. This is a an Well, yes. Well, that's what that was my point, Jeeoff. If you're using this to for expense repairs, yes, it's a it's a legitimate transfer. It's not it's it's in it was moved to a and I'm sorry, Jeeoff, the terminology will work on what we have to get to, but it was moved to a capital fund. It was not as it was not moved. It was not moved to an expenditure line item. And Jeff, this goes back into your skill. And this is where you need to sit there and come and bring forth the best thing for the community because listen, we're going to sit there and and undertake a a bathroom repair, which I like I the terminology you want to go. Where's the building committee on that? Where's the group of people sitting there and evaluating how it gets done and where it gets done and why when it gets done? You got to help marshall that. Have a committee that's just forming now to do that. I hope they bring in people like Adrian and and Bob Hamburger and Jeff Murray and people who
understand that type of work and because I'm a CPA. I'm not that I'm not that right person. Rick bring in Rick Wilson. Bring in a lot of people from the community that have skills and because that needs to happen just like we did when we did the roof. We brought in a building committee and we got it done. Those are the things that we have to outline and say this is how we expect things to happen because it's got to be the same way the budgets get presented. We have to do a better job to sit there and say this is a requirement of how the budgets get presented and you've got to follow along this way to sit there and make sure that everybody in the community gets all the right information. So anyway, we're moving on to like I said Jeeoff, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't have enough I don't have enough information either way to make a decision. Jeff, you Well, I sit there. You made a decision, Jeff, just by doing what you did. And that's okay. And and listen, I wasn't I I knew that we would have sit there and be split on this issue. But it doesn't mean that I cannot bring it forth to the community to say we need to do it right because we did not do this right. And that's okay. So, public speak, we're going to move on to Luis Goodwin. I commend you, First Selectman Jeff Magcguire, for determining the mistake in the budget process and wanting to correct it to follow the town charter.
We are lucky to have you, Joanne Heert. So I also am glad that if there was a mistake made in a process that it was brought forward in a you know in a forum where everybody can understand. I do have several concerns though. I want to understand and I will make myself educated on that that I thought that the funds were you know they're like bank accounts and they accumulate every year. you know, we are allowed to budget. You as the board of selectmen budget them to the extent that you want to every year, you know, if you're putting the budget together to send to the board of finance. So, I guess I'm a little confused. I totally understand that it was surplus money from last year fiscal year 2324 of the 360,000. It wasn't really I didn't think being and I I will educate myself being put back in a budget per se. It was being put back in a fund that accumulates. So just like the general fund accumulates because I'm all for taking surplus funds and you know bringing down the town's taxation. So I will educate myself there. What I am very afraid of with this whole process as someone that goes to a lot of meetings of all of the boards and have watched the little baby steps come where there's been a trust from the board of ed through everybody trying to work together who has you know given a lot of their time and effort and you know tried to make inroads with that. I'm afraid this is going to do the opposite for them because it's yet another thing where they in good faith
had given back the $100,000 because they were forthright with their surplus. I will mark my words here. I don't think anyone has to worry, Mr. Person, about a and this is just from watching everybody getting to know everyone's personalities, being present, being outspoken. I don't think there's going to be a surplus ever again because there's not going to be any trust anymore. So, I don't think this will be a problem. We'll be watching budgets that are put forth be spent. You know, this is why I was so outspoken about this agreement and getting the unspent money back every year to go to AAS for these things so that they don't spend it on other things because there was that trust. So that's what I'm afraid of for the town right now. But I also want to do things the right way and here we are. So thank you Valerie Bruno. Thank you. Jeff Murray, thank you for pointing out that when we say mistake, it was mistakes between the boards because the million dollars for the senior center was exactly the same process that was followed. So, of course, the board of finance would would never consider a different method if that was the method that had already been used and set a precedent. in terms of whether or not the board of education or myself as the superintendent would ever just decide that there would be no surplus, if there truly was, I I really don't want the general public to think that there would be no let's buy extra pencils. That's silly. We did try in 23 to utilize the funds that we had available before
the end of the fiscal year to do the driveway and that was prior to it then being unexpended funds and that was shut down. That was shot down by the town side and they said nope even though that's your money and even though it's prior to the end of the fiscal year and even though it's an expenditure you believe that you have the answer is no. And so that's kind of where the the difficulty has been since then. So I assure the general public that the board of education and myself would never take unexpended funds and not use them wisely. So thank you Joanne. I appreciate that. But if there is unexpended funds at the end of the year that they would absolutely if if there is nothing that needs to be done go back to the town. But I do believe that the board of finance does have the authority. So, I think moving forward, we definitely need to have roles clearly established for all three boards. Thank you. Kimberly Persan. nothing right now. Thank you, Jeff. Liz Latch. yeah. I'm not really sure what to say. I've been on vacation and kind of came into this meeting late and I I appreciate the conversation about doing things the right way and hope that we can fix the process going forward so that it's correct. the one thing I will say though is the money that is, as far as I'm concerned, the money that's going into the AEOS capital/building fund, whatever we're
going to call it, it still remains within the town's control and it will be spent as needed. I believe that to be true and if I'm not correct in that, I'd like to know that, too. so it would be requested by the school as it was needed. so if I'm incorrect in that, I I'd like for someone to correct me, but thank you guys for all you do. And I know this is a tough one. Okay. Is there anything else for anybody that I miss? Did I miss anybody? Yeah, we can just Yeah, for Liz Liz's benefit, yes, they would have to come back and and request those funds. It would have to be approved. Okay. And just as a side thing, because I was I was I was texting Eric to make sure I understood this. Eric actually put Jeff the definition of a capital purchase and capital equipment. Equipment and projects, as the definition goes, 131. capital purchases equipment and projects with an estimated cost of $15,000 or more or estimated annual maintenance or leasing costs of $5,000 or more. That's not inherently true.
Well, I think you you know I think you you have it in your own. All right. All right. Well, Jeeoff, let's just let's just I just I just want to say for for for just discussion, you have a business and your septic tank goes in your business in your doicile or your business and you have to repair that. it cost you $50,000 to replace your septic system, you can't claim that on your taxes as a capital investment. But if you go out and buy $100,000 delivery truck, you can depreciate that over 10 years as a depreciable item. Correct. Yeah. And as a landlord and as a owning property, when I sit there and I do something like the roof or, you know, would I sit there and and and deduct the entire bathroom? Yeah. But to do it technically correct and actually have, you know, the auditor sit there and go at it, you're probably going to depreciate the the the bathroom over, you know, 15 years. Yeah. Because that's the useful life of the the bathroom. But so we're in we're in a municipality, but it's a little different. But the the rules that how we how we purchase and depreciate things are are pretty similar. And the real real the real issue, Jeff, to be really honest, is how you sit there and evaluate projects because if you sit there and you you are doing something, we we have to define
this. This Yeah. Like like the pickle ball courts in the playground, those are absolutely capital because you're improving a property. You're different. Different. You're different. But no, that's that's the definition. You're sitting there. You're sitting there having a a building that is a town building and and we're only talking about the school because all the other buildings it doesn't it's part of the you know goes falls under the town purchasing policy. You are we are going down a real slippery slope if you sit there and you don't sit there and control that building. Just telling you it's like it's like thinking about what Valerie sat there and said in her public speak and I I'll this is my public speak. She sat there and said about the parking lot and the and the money that was going to be spent on the parking lot. If we spend if we allow money to be spent like that and it's not approved in a in in a in a manner it doesn't go in front of a building committee, doesn't go in front of a capital improvement, doesn't get in front of the town administrator, and we do these things and they're not done correctly, then we're going to sit there and just be throwing money away. It's I 100% agree there. I 100% agree with you
there. what we did 10 years ago with the prior administrations, we threw money away. I agree. We paved Cone Road and it wasn't done correctly. And you can't have that stuff. That's that's why, listen, that's why we went to a town administrator form of government to have a way, you know, to have that position in there to have somebody who's caring about the the whole whole town and all of the assets of the town. And and this is not to sit there and I'm not saying anything about the board of education. They do a great job education educating the children. What I am saying is all of our groups have to do their jobs in an appropriate way to make the town run as well as it possibly can because it's just not it's not reality. We we we have to do like the board of finance has to do its job across everything. It has to evaluate the expenditures from the prior year. Has to ask tough questions. The board of finance's real goal is to set an upper level of spending for the community. That includes the board of education. That includes the town. That you know, you can't do anything with RAM. But you have to be able to fund all of your your expenses, annual expenses through taxation or we we pull it out of our our our fund balances. But everybody's got to do their job right. So the board of finance has to do its job right. The board of selectment has to do its job right and the board of education has to do its job right. And we all have to work together because if we don't work
together, we will continue to go down these roads and we'll continue to have bigger arguments. And I'm just telling you bigger arguments. And and those are things that I want to avoid at all cost from I don't have time. I don't have the energy. I don't want to fight. But I'm just telling you bigger arguments and we don't need it. So anyway, anybody else I missed? Dennis O'Brien, you didn't say a word. You want me to say something? I say amen to everything you just said. I think that, this town has the capability, the talent in on its boards and commissions and staff and whatnot to do do really great. We are doing very good but I think we you're right we need to do things correctly and we need to do things in cooperation. we need to work together and you just stated what the roles are of the of the three three
boards basically the board of selectman board of finance and certainly the board of education and I think I think we can do that and I think this this could be a a a good jumping off point to move clo farther into that direction than we have for a while here in this town. We had a meeting the other day with the governor with a board of selectman I was really proud to be there. I was really proud to be there and I know the governor was very much impressed with our board of selectmen because he told my wife that he that he was he had a great time with us here and and and we are you know you're a great town. I I
almost wish I lived there but I'm not about to relocate. But anyway, I thought this was a good meeting. I thought there was u disagreement but it was civilized and it was the discussion was intelligent and I think we all know that we really need to work harder to work together in a way that makes sense and I think you stated that at the end Jeff and I'm I hope we can do that in the future. Thank you. Okay, I'll sit there. I just say one last thing. Yeah, I agree that things have to be done correctly and in the future we need to do that and I think that the efforts creating that tribe board was one that was moving towards that and I understand whatever policy was set up there but I think that if we have that tri board we have the understanding there's a policy there so it's very clear to everyone on. I I just think I I think it's hard to step on the toes of an elected board of finance that made
this decision. Six votes. And again, I think it just everything has to be made more clear. We have to have that tri board policy and have an understanding between all three boards. and we all three have to start working together. Yeah. And car and to Carol's Carol's point, if if the board of finance meets next time and they decided they did this incorrectly and they want to have a town meeting, then that's in their purview. Correct. I believe so. But that Dennis again again they'd have to come they'd have to come to the board of selectment to schedule the meeting. That's what I was trying to do. Whatever that we're we're done. One last one last thing. Thank you everybody for for going. Dennis said something about the board of selectmen, about the governor being impressed with the board of selectmen, while the governor may have been impressed by the board of selectmen, but be be real honest, the governor was impressed by the town administrator. So, I'm just letting you all know the town administrator was very articulate in the the the one of the primary issues the state has going on is housing and and and housing starts and low-income
housing. and Eric has done a tremendous amount of research to assist the the the planning and zoning board and to deal with Crag and all of the groups that he participates in. So, I don't want you to think that I was traveling on business. I wasn't even there. I know Carol was there. I know Jeff Murray asked some good questions and I know Scott was there. But and Jeff was Jeff Murray. Yeah, Jeff I was the one that started the conversation. Jeff Murray started the conversation and Eric filled in all the gaps and the governor was was was as Dennis said and I met with Dennis and I I spoke to his wife and and the governor was very impressed. So item five. Item five. I make a motion to adjurnn. Second. All right. All those in favor? I Okay. Thank you. Good night. Good night.