[Music] order first up is roll call and seating of alets I've got an cre present Scott pan present and myself present as the regular members and so Kevin we'll seat you and we'll seat you and Marie sounds good thank you next up is additions or changes to the agenda and I would like to move new business item 6A which is the Connecticut Meditation Center up above the old business so that these folks don't have to sit around waiting for their turn and then they can go do other stuff when they get done and then I would also like to remove item five Charlie the gravel bit update essentially there's not not very much to report on that and it would require us to go to Executive session because there is a lawsuit pending and so since I don't have much to report I don't want to go to executive session and we will just pass on that tonight hey Patrick so at this point I would like to make a motion to move 6A before item five and remove item five charl second okay thank you an any other discussion on the changes to the agenda or any other changes to the agenda anybody wants to make okay hearing none I'll call for a vote to approve the motion an hi Scott hi an Marie I Kevin I and I vote I as well that motion
passes by z z since Patrick is here and and I did not put on my notes who is last seated as an alternate I think it's your turn Kevin but I don't know am re do you have a a sense were you seated recently not that I recall no I'm fine either way okay Kevin do you remember the last time you were seated honestly not without going back and looking at the minutes so which how it doesn't matter to me however you want to put it down I'm going to I'm going to seat in Marie then she was the first one in good Evin will put you off to the side and let Patrick take his seat here okay next item up on the agenda Leanne Hutchinson is joining us maybe maybe I spoke too fast and
Marie think we'll put lean are you there yes yes okay yep I had seated anarie for you we're going to set you in there so we have all five of our regular members is the voting members tonight anybody and it's only you guys I don't think you have any public comment on any anything else before we get to your item no okay very good we're going to move on to item 6A the proposed development at 131 Route you yeah so today we have repres Meditation Center it's a nonprofit organization where we are providing the really I mean this teachings and meditation practices so Comm Community around us you can just speak a little louder please we picture we Pi you up on the reporting all right so it's a it's a nonprofit organization where we are providing Buddhist teaching and meditation practices to the community including again we have conducting the cultural classes of Sri Lankan Community who lives in Conneticut right so he started this in 2013 right and but there we haven't had a proper place to do that but we rented places based on the department and continue until 2021 in 2021 we found this property at Andor and we purchased so we purchase this property I mean it's not an easy path for us because we had to collect a lot of money throughout for the p i mean from 2013 to 2021 and finally we found that and we got we told it's the best place for us to build this proper build this
property and serve the community in a better way right so considering all these facts we bought this property and then we were trying I mean we trying to see how we can utilize in a better way to have up the the operations right so there we I mean we have like I mean if I consider the the the event what we are doing like we have regular prayer meetings kind of sessions so usually we be having around 40 to 50 people so the current facility is okay for us to continue all those things on top of that every year we'll be having we usually having big event usually those are happening in late spring and the Summer where we have a
big the back care right so we should be able to accommodate all of the attendance attendance on facilities and that we have a a tent the temple tent where we doing all those things there right now I said that the the the biggest challenge we are facing the accommodation for trees right now during the summer they they they can stay in the big old building because it's a pretty old building which which was built in 1700 right and and there I mean you know it it's insulations are not that good there are holes around and it needs a better heating system the water lines are I mean it doesn't work I mean it's it's going to froze during the winter we have a lot of problem right so there but still we manage all those things with very hardships but it's not I mean considering all those things and again so I mean I know the priest they dedicated their life to do better things for others but still they don't need to suffer that that much of practical for us because investing more money to develop that old building when we really consider we
talked to several contractors and looked at options and putting more money into that building is not worth the the the effort and the cost at the end of the day because the foundation itself is not that good and so we don't know in order to make it safe for somebody to live there it's a significant cost and still we are not guaranteed that it'll stay safe and especially during the winter to make it insulated and he heater with the proper facilities it's hard to do it with with that old building so unfortunately we didn't know about the situation of the building when we purchase the property but now that we have purchased it we have it so now we are looking at Alternatives that's why we repair the barn to see whether we can use it as a temporary shelter but that doesn't work either lot of mice and the again insulation is very poor so the water freezes up and all the problems so that's why we are looking at alternatives for them because right now he's lives in New York so coming from New York to here is not a practical solution for us either so we and then we got another priest from Sri Lanka so now we have here two but we need the place for those two people to be there and then that way we can have regular meetings and prayers and have children's sessions like classes and we can we can like work with the community local community on a
regular basis when you operating from New York it's it's very hard to do and it's costly back and forth travel it's not practical so that's why we are looking for an anything else for us so there our option where we we decide we we wanted to check the the the possibilities of setting up a manufactured house there in that property right so it's going to be a three bedroom manufactured house which is about, 200 S feet I mean it's less than 1,172 so now we would we want I mean so there on there for that we we we created a site plan I mean I just a high level site plan to show you to see how we is so and we wanted to know how we can continue in this path and enable our place to have affordable for a better I another copy place to live yeah this is again it's a temporary solution because we our ultimate goal is to
develop a bigger public building where we can have the public functions as well as maybe then the priest can have some accommodation within that permanent building but that that's a longer term plan okay so right now what we want to do is that's why we looked at different options can we develop part of that public building right now but then again it's it's too costly so because we have to put the foundation for the whole building and develop this when we do the septic and the plumbing and everything electrical fa then it has to be done for the whole building so the infrastructure cost is too high so that's why we settled on this manufactured home that way the initial cost is lower and the infrastructure cost would be low as well so we want to we are seeking permission to go ahead with that plan before we raise funds and pay an advance to the manufacturer we won't your opinion on how how they work okay so your last comment there like our opinion and so this is a free application conference we don't have an application yet we're just here sharing information trying to get some feedback from the commission on on how it's going and that sort of thing yeah Jim you had a chance to see this site plan drawing it all I I have some notes that I'd like to share at some
point okay that was a good background okay the Connecticut Meditation Center purchased the property at 131 ro6 consisting of 7.4 acres of land along with 3900 square square foot structure built 1792 which is once White's tab been used but it's been used for residents for for quite some time based on a recent photo it appears that there have been up to three residential units in in the building I say that because it may have some some bearing on on what lot theut moving forward and I say that because there's there's three there's three electrical boxes on the picture that I have of three three meter seconds property's own business the intended use of the property as place of worship is what what I'm referring to it as is specifically listed is requiring a site plan approval current owners been made aware of this and have engaged an engineer inter bual prare plans and I've had a few conversations with with Andy
regarding the regulatory standards so they recently they recently approached about placing a manufactured home on the property for two months to live in well the use of the existing house falls under the the list of per permitted uses under the business zes it was in fact because it was in existence prior to 2003 which is what the regulations State having said that obviously a new structure would not not beet that criteria then question arose or in my mind anyway as to whether a residence placed on the property May constitute an accessory use to place of worship and that is assuming that such a use is established by way of a site plan approval I'm referring this would be similar to a rectory at a church which something that most of us are more familiar so Section 8 of the zoning regulation states that all site plan approvals must meet all the requirements of section 23
with the exception of a public hearing and this would include architectural okay so I try to make it clear that this is just a preliminary these folks that come to us commission back when they first purchased the property get some feedback and there's you know there plans I think have evolved since then so I guess you know first and foremost we need to have tried to make it clear that we need special sorry sa plan sa plan approval I kind of use the terms interchanger I shouldn't I guess I I have can I raise a concern now that I hearing the long-term use of the the
house I mean what do you intend to do that moving forward long term if he can because we we have approached like a couple of Institutions including Yale University because it's a historical building we prefer to save it and see whether we can develop it but as I said before investing more money to bring it to a residential property that can be used year round is right now with our kind of financial situation it's beyond us because that's why we approach we see whether we can get some state or federal grants or some kind of funding with some expert help we that's why we approach the a university and their archit Ural and like engineering departments just to get a because we are biggest concern is about the foundation of the property so because it's a stone old stone foundation and it has moved a little bit so we that's why we can't use it for public functions or anything so we don't want to use it that way unless we get
some experts who know the who know know the subject very well and give give us advice and invest bringing enough money to make it a safe sa building for public so that's why we are moving towards this tempor installation yeah again I mean as of now as we have spent a lot on that property to keep the keep the structure stable we have set up a lot of the the reinforcement columns yeah we have put metal columns underneath so that just to support the existing structure and added more plumbing and just that looks like my house I have St foundation with lots of those poles it up yeah we have we have invested some money but again we don't want to put in lot more money with with real little little benefit because we can't when we have public functions we don't want people to go in there because we are not sure whether it's safe or not we are just right now using it more for storage and and because
we have we have this big tent that's why we purchase the tent and and so it's like semi-permanent the structure there but we remove the roof and and store it during the winter because we don't want to we cannot use it during the winter but most of the functions are during spring and summer so we can manage but we prefer our priest to live their year round because people are visiting us pretty much every weekend we have with people who who want to visit us and people who drive by on Route Six stop and want to talk to the priests and learn a little bit more but we we cannot accommodate them because they are not there especially during the winter do any of the commission members have any comments or questions on on what we've seen here Leanne Kevin and Marie I would say I don't really have any comments right now I mean I listened and I understand what they're looking to do with the property you know I understand that the Future Vision is not 100% developed yet but I would I would say I don't really have any questions at this
time okay yeah thanks Kevin John you have anything no nothing for me I thought that the summary was was good just curious the this projected priest residence is this going to be a permanent building then you're not intending to replace it with something else soon or what not soon but eventually our plan is to we have already discuss with the town about the future plan longer term plan because we want to build a bigger building permanent building with enough space to conduct public functions and a prayers and with a prayer hold and so that the problem is that that's going to take few more years because we have to do it slowly and again with working with the town but right now our immediate problem is that we are unable to have accommodations for the priest okay priest then live in that new larger building when you build that yeah okay so then you wouldn't need this is this on a like cement yeah Foundation or is it a with a basement kind no no no we have to put the flat because there are some requirements from the manufacturer and based on their requirements we are going to put a concrete slab and then put the plumbing and the setti for that and then bring in and put the manufactured home on top of that it's a smaller but three bedroom because there are some state requirements about the dimensions of the manufactured house so because of that that's why we went for a we prefer to do a small am but then the
the the the state rules kind of so that's why we thought with the if we can use the affordable housing kind of approach and then have this residence as a I would say shortterm measure but then again we can use it in the long run although we are planning to build a bigger building on the property I think we should be able to use it in the long run as well so is that bigger building going to be an addition onto this residence or is it a completely separate building completely separate building so is that point would this building go away or no not right now well I think our plan is to keep it there and then use it as the residence while we are building the bigger building Y and then then also we can since the those plans haven't kind of finalized yet if we have have a residence for the monks right now with the manufactured home then we can concentrate on building the public building first right and then take an addition if necessary if we feel that the the manufactured home is not good enough for the priest in the long run then we can do an addition to the for the public building with the with the resident part okay and the reason I asked that is for a lot in the buil business zone now we wouldn't allow you to build a single family home because we want the business lots to be used for business yeah yeah and and so we've already got one single family home although it's in horrible condition and then we've got another one and then we might have the priests or
the monks which is the proper term yeah living in this new center which I saw a picture online yeah very yeah yeah a nice building but right now we wouldn't allow two homes on one line yeah so we've got to work our way through that a little bit and and probably as an accessory building we we can do that but it makes me concerned about the long-term viability you know what what's going to happen 50 years from now I don't know but we've got you we're in a condition where if it weren't to be a temple anymore then we've got a couple of homes on there now we're into a situation where that's not in accordance with the regulation so I would hope that we yeah to make it for the long term because this is for the I mean actually the Sri Lankan community in Connecticut is growing pretty fast already we have about I would say little more than 100 families in the area and and it's growing fast with the Ukon and other insurance companies and companies in Hartford we are there are lot more people and lot more doctors in the hospitals here so the community is growing and with especially with little kids they want the cultural and language and the religious U education for the kids as well so that's that's why we we are thinking about this property as the longterm this we are doing this for the future generation not for us I mean yeah so if go ahead Eric so if if I interject
I want to throw one wild card in but before I do that what I wanted to do is do you guys have an architect you're working with on this okay so the reason why I say that is the wild card would be develop this is a mixed use floating Zone which gives you the flexibility to probably do everything they want as long as they present a master plan up front and you accept accept the the you accept it as a mixed use floating Zone that would give you the flexibility to mix both the religious uses and potentially multiple residences you know on site it's not commercial per se but it's essentially the equivalent of commercial and that would be one
potential but they would have to do the homework to present you know a fully developed master plan for how the whole thing will look eventually and then that makes your life easy because once you've gone through that and you presented that master plan which shows everything at each step when you get ready to build the next building then it is just site plan approval from the commission which is much faster than going through a special permit so much more hassle up front but once you got it then you know whenever you're ready to build the next building yeah you know you plug it in no totally agree and actually that's why we did the we did the site plan thinking about the longer term larger building and we we had an architectural drawing of that building but the problem was that the cost was right now we we couldn't afford it that's why we were debating we didn't want to present the whole plan to you guys before we know that we can can afford to build it and have a definite timeline to it so that's why we decided on this alternate plan but it's it it would be good for the commission to see what you're thinking sure for the long-term plan because I think it's a good plan yeah no definitely yeah we have already yeah done some of the work and we have all also brought in Engineers to look at possible placement of a septic tank and how the like parking would be set up and all that is done already okay interesting for us to yeah it would be be good good to know what you're planning not do it because yeah it
sounds like and we are going to if we we do it finally to to the specifications that we have we are thinking of it will be a pretty nice development on that property and the problem is it's going cost us couple of million bucks so but I think with the that's why we wanted the the priest to be there because these families want to come and meet them talk to them get the children to know them so if we are doing it long distance it doesn't work very well we tried that with zoom meetings and it's it doesn't work very well that's why any idea you have any idea where the other bigger building would go yeah we have yeah we have already planned where the there is on one side of the property because we have the the property is pretty large and there are some areas with some I think like there are waterways so we want to be careful that's why we brought Engineers to look at that and recommend for yeah the Wetland make sure the properties graded properly and all that so I mean right right now we have we have created these plans and they with us but the only problem where I
mean we it created by one of our architect where he recently moved here but he don't have the the certification so we are we are going to give those plans to a licensed architect here and and get him to redraw the redraw the entire plan based on the state rules and regulations and the the zoning and everything but but but we have a we have already prepared a one but it's not certain understand just to give us an idea of what you're looking at be be able to provide yeah we can we can provide that while we are working on the like with the license surveyor and a but but we have we are working with the license surveyor but we don't have licensed architect to finally draw an actual development plan yeah help me understand the temple today is the temple today the statue of Buddha with the the cover on top of it yeah yeah that's the temple and then we are using the tent for the and mostly whenever we can we do outdoor functions but if we want indoor we are using the tent for those because we have as you said 30 40 people at least coming there for a small function for a bigal function we will have 100 to 120 people it is in that will be the temple in the end yes that that is the temple that is yeah and if you got the tax exempt status for being a house of worship now yeah we have submitted all the required documentation and it's the process it's in the process and they said probably it'll be next year for the next tax year we don't have to pay the
taxes so we have yeah submitted all the documentation because all all the discussion is predicated on their being actual Temple there I didn't know if that was I had something different in mind when I thought of a temple that no no no we that's why we set it up originally as a nonprofit and got the IRS to give us the tax exm status and then we we collected all the documentation and sub to the City with you're setting up a separate nonprofit for this operation no it is already existing nonprofit Conneticut Meditation Center in so that's a that's organization right so all the contributions to that that current Meditation Center is tax right but that brings up a second point and that is you're going through to get tax exempt status essentially as religious organization in town which I don't think
the town has any problem with we're we're encouraging you to do that but you haven't really filed the applications for the zone so you still need a permit application to be at church I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe that's ever been that's where we're we're headed is we've got to get to right we've got to establish by permit here at church and we might be able to do all that one plan and I think there's different ways as Eric was saying this mixed use thing and I hadn't thought about that I think it would work just as long as we have a temple and an accessory structure there and you can have more than one accessory structure I assuming Jim that you can have as many of those as you need okay sure fible a lot yeah I tried to make it clear that they need I mean it was used as a residence you could have continued to use it as a residence but it was I mean basically have changed the use we don't use the term change of use but nonetheless yeah a change of use constitute requires a new permit okay in this case so we can't approve the house unless we have a permit for a permit for the D what I'm suggesting you get a permit life for
permit or something simple yeah this larger building can come later yeah that that what I want to see is is what what you have there now a tent you know you have various things yeah and you know you can establish parking and I know you've been working with a sanitarian yeah and an engineer on a septic system but I want to see that all come together into an application and I tried to tried to make that okay yeah definitely yeah we we can we can that's why we were not totally sure how to go about doing this so that's that's a reason for this meeting that's why we wanted to come in person so that we understand the needs and then we'll definitely do the documentation just so you know I'd be happy to meet with you and your engineer yeah yeah I'd rather meet with your engineer the architect I think way see you establish the use as soon as possible yeah yeah we have yeah we have an engineer actually one of our community members is the city engineer for Manchester okay so well yeah I know you have a lot of resources so he's he's helping us and
also we have hired actual U engineer to civil engineer to help us with the with the plan right I have I have spoken to him okay yeah yeah Andy right yeah yeah okay and then so I you saw a drawing of the proposed house yeah and it didn't have probably as much detail on that as we would like to see with respect to the heating system and tie into the septic tank and where the well is and all all that kind of stuff but so the application would probably need a little more than what we've seen so far as far as the actual house making sure that it stays seated yeah right and there's also essentially two standards for manufactured home one is a HUD standard and one is a manufactured home standard that conforms to all the standard that for conforms to the Connecticut building code okay as far as I know are and I don't remember what the state there was a state something changed recently with the state regulations but the town has always
permitted manufactured homes which conform to the Connecticut State Building Code plenty of them in town yeah but we've never permitted homes built to the mobile home or the HUD standard oh in our zoning regulations so just be aware of that yeah as you're looking at units yeah that's why we told that it has to be more than 22 ft long so that's why we went with the three bedroom unit because it's a bigger building and has little bit more space as well so yeah that that's 22 feet wide that's a that's a state but you can actually build you don't it doesn't need to be as big as long as it's quote unquote a manufactured house yeah in fact you can get get all the way down under 400 square ft and build it under the state code for tiny houses which is an addendum to the State Building Code those you could probably buy what's called an accessory dwelling unit and plunk that on and that might be a for a
shorter term solution that saves you money but you know I don't know your priest whether you want to live in a 400 foot home that's between you and them but you have you know you do have a bunch of options with that don't think that you have to build a 22 foot wide structure what I'm been trying to stress is that you can't have an accessory use or an accessory structure without a primary yeah you don't have a primary use approved right now is that is that clear yeah so primary use means that we have for the P Temple we have put House of yeah and that could be I me as far as I'm concerned that can be the the T you know yeah what you have yeah so I think so yeah let us know what documents do you need for the just to get the approval for the temple with the current facility so we'll start with that right and then your well aware yeah we can talk to Andy and get set up that that perit first I mean I don't see any reason to that your architect has to be engaged in this preliminary yeah we want everything cost more and more money so yeah that's why we first started with the engineer so that we develop the site plan and also we wanted to make sure that we understand the needs for the like septic
T because right now the the septic connections for that old building we are not very sure of how how I mean you're trying to plan there's a lot going on yeah yeah we have to plan for the future as I said right we don't want to do one thing right now and to find out later that oh this is not enough we need to expand that so the cost kind of adds up pretty quickly so that's why we want to understand all the requirements now before we you know put money into this and that's why you're heing yeah that's yeah the last comment I have in in our last gym when I went to the assessor map today to look at this property it looks like there's three different lots that you own yeah y are we dealing with just the one lot and then it looks like the other two lots recently we Consolidated all three into one okay that was that was going to be my question yeah I have documentation okay and so that should be spelled out on the site plan too that we've taken the three different partials yeah so that was the recommendation from Andy when he came and looked at the properties and don't want to deal with these three separate blocks let's let's consolidate that good yeah so we'll we'll then we'll work on that that permit first just to get the permit to for the temple with the current existing structures and then we forward go forward with the again the
Second Step would be to apply for a mixed use permit or or to get the waiver to set up the residential building so go ahead joh so I don't know if this was mentioned I I liked Eric's idea of the mixed use but but in looking at the the regulations for the business district and I know I mean church is as allowed site plan use I think you probably already talked about that there's not a there there's not a specific definition of what a church is and you know it so this is a this is an interpretation by you know the Zeo and maybe the commission itself but you know churches you know religious facilities can be fairly Broad and expansive that in could include some residential some community space obviously think of you know think of a a large Church community it it it encompasses a great many you know Rel related uses including residential including community space including assembly and and the other thing I would point out is in Section 8 the the business Zone in the site plan uses where it includes churches there's also a clause at the bottom of that list that says any other uses that the commission determines are substantially similar to the other allowable site plan uses so you know again I think we would need we would need sort of that Master Plan and and and kind of a narrative to show how all of these varie uses you know the the the the priest's residence some community space the temple other structures how that all works together to support the the religious community I think you know you could sort of lay this out in a way that the commission
could understand that really the whole property is functioning essentially as a church or something similar enough that it's it would fit under the current Zone okay yeah so the that's exactly how we are thinking about it too so because we we want the public to gather and do the religious things at the same time then they are also involved in teaching kids so we want the kids to assemble there and so maybe have smaller Gatherings so that they can learn the language culture as well as some meditation and then we can the other advantage in PR pre living in the property that there are lot of Demands from the schools in the area to come and do meditation programs for the school KY but when they operate from New York they can it's it's hard to do so during week days they want people to go so that that's why we are thinking about all these things but the important thing for tonight yeah is that the temple is the statue with the cover over yeah that that is the temple that exists today yeah and we have to get perit for that a permit for that yeah which allows us to then go put the house there okay and in further down the line you might decide to have the temple to find is is something bigger we if you've got a temple today you can go for with the house if you
don't have a temple today yeah no house definitely easy enough I it's very easy to do very good and look forward to seeing it very good any any other questions for us we can we can definitely work on the documentation and then come and then work with Jim and get the get Andy and others to come talk to you and then I didn't know the Shri Lankan Community was growing the way it is but you certainly been wonderful neighbors out there at this point and surprised how big the community is when we when we did the larger events there were lots of people and we were ourselves surprised to see how how many families there are I mean New York always had large they have about 3500 family Sri Lankan families in New York in the five barrows but yeah Connecticut is growing pretty path and I think Yukon has student swap program or something like that with Lankan universities so every year like 10 to 15 kids coming over now they have 30 to 40 graduate students there who are doing their phds so so it's it's growing pretty well and pretty fast and they are they also want to come during weekends and it's all great yeah any other questions before we end the discussion here I think this all good news thank you very much thank you for coming appreciate the and everybody has been very supportive so we really appreciate thank you thank you very much okay now we're going to shift back to Old business and the first item up
John is the planet conservation development okay thank you ched I'm going to throw the draft document on the screen hopefully you'll be able to see that shortly I'll try to zoom in a little bit so as requested a couple of days ago I I probably probably yesterday it's only Tuesday I forwarded around to everyone a copy of the working draft and as you recall last month we sort of talked through complete Street which again was sort of one of the five guiding principles or the the the the visioning statements specifically we envision a safe and vibrant Andover that connects the community through a network of complete streets and enhances the town Civic campus on both sides of Route Six at its heart and we had the had the conversation and so I and so I took those suggestions that conversation
and attempted to craft it into something that that that resembled a chapter of a plan of conservation and development so I'll just very very briefly walk through the way it was structured and then would like to get just a little bit of feedback on on if this reads the way that that you would you would like to see it and if it reflects the the goals that we we discussed and concerns so again I'll be I'll be relatively brief hopefully people got a chance to take a look at this so we we talk about complete streets as as a concept the history of Andover being involved in complete streets and and looking to increase safety on andover's road Network we discussed the the current conditions with state roads which are which are you know probably the most important connectors in and over Route 6 Route 26 looking a little bit at traffic counts and how everything's connected talk a little bit about local roads I could beef that up a little bit more
just just in terms of the the character but you know they they local roads it's a rural town it's it's fairly fairly straightforward talk a little bit about the Hop River Trail and the town's public transportation such as it is and and then we go into some of the philosophical underpinnings of this chapter the vision zero complete streets taking the Safe Systems approach and added some of the some of the graphics and descriptions from the the PowerPoint presentation and some of the materials that Eric has put together over the years and again focusing on the The Safe Systems goals of changing local policy that includes the needs of people on foot bicycle and bus educating residents on a series of safe behaviors making roads safer and and looking at some of the The Proven safety counter measures which is a term of art from federal High way and ensuring people of all ages have more options to travel safely then we sort of go through a detail of the improvements that have been made following this this broad goal that we're continuing dealing with some of the the The Pedestrian Crossings bike racks wayfinding signage and that sort of thing and then we go into a little bit more deeper Narrative of the specific initiative that that was began began a couple of years ago to establish a stronger connection for bicycles pedestrians between the town hall campus the Civic campus on School Street and the Hop River Trail which is sort of the the spine from the spine of of Andover
from a trail system or multimodal system and the the two paths that we're we're going to be pursuing essentially concurrently so describe that and then we detail some of the concerns that were raised in the past and and we talked quite a bit about at at our last meeting about you know connecting people to the Trails the concerns with with Crossings of Route Six to try to knit the town more closely together problems with with speed and lack of awareness on local roads particularly when it comes to pedestrians and bicycles and pedestrians did I spell that right yes okay and then and then we basically take it to the actual actions section and we split up the recommended actions into three large goals goal a promoting traffic calming and encouraging lower speed roads making investments in the multi-use path and Trail connections and then the third being undertake Transportation Network improvements to to improve safety efficiency and convenience and each of those goals has specific action items which we will then further break down in an implementation guide which will happen sort of at the end of the process in which each of these recommendations will be given a priority will be given a principal entity to act upon it as well as any supporting detail so for instance painting edgeline striping if you look at the the
first goal under or first action under goal C would certainly be the you know public works department with the assistance and guidance of the Town manager the Town Administrator and you know it's a high priority or it's an ongoing priority and so all of these will sort of be broken down so that the goals are more easily trackable as we go into the future so that in in in very brief is basically the structure of you know this chapter which again would be one of six based on the we envision statements and then you know we we continue to add to these as we have our our sort of in-depth conversations on each of the we envision statement like we did about complete streets last month so that's that's the the broad brush approach of what we were we're looking for and and you know we can we can quibble about words specific details maybe later but I would just sort of like some some feedback on if this in terms of tone length detail appearance is sort of you know vibing with with where you guys would
like the the plan to go and I'll leave it there Mr chairman any comments from the commission members when I went and read through it I found a couple different things that I wasn't you know at the time when I read it this morning you know and it's think it's go down John I'm sorry yeah did you did you say it didn't sit well yeah keep going I'll tell you when to stop okay I think it had to do with what has happened so far something Me Maybe here on major ongoing task go down oh right here the major on going cast the some about humans are fallible oh okay I think that's in I think that's in the Safe Systems approach Eric correct me if I'm wrong yeah that's a that's a straight tenant from the Federal Highway yeah right here
right here humans are fallible after all you don't think that's true not an Handover I guess maybe that's true of Colombia humans are I think that's pretty Universal I mean I think you just mean that accidents are bound to happen at some point right well it says everybody makes mistakes the goal of this is a transportation Network where the mistakes don't kill you or your friend I Eric I understood the whole thing it just that part of it didn't you know humans are fallible after all I don't know how he could rewrite that yeah I mean well it's it's it's parenthetical and a little bit chatty there's no you know we could we could take it out entirely and the the sentence still has its strength I think you know people
will neverly make mistakes period think about it I don't know struck me badly this morning I know why here we go one was through the woods down below there keep going down through the woods that something to do what what what has been completed so far right slow down right there right here the townwood yeah I think I described the the the the trail through the woods over yeah right here on Town owned property eah which yeah I mean which would describe sort of the red the the red or pink path that we we we're looking at here property through yeah we could just say through through through town owned property right here or the wooded it is wooded though right yes I mean through wooded Town property or I appreciate the close read That's I and I you know it's it's never easy to be edited but I appreciate the close read maybe it was just too early in the morning Scott and that's and and let's you know to be to be absolutely clear I you know I can send out a word version I think
I sent people the pdf version I'm I'm happy to send people the word version and you be you're welcome to use track changes and and suggest some specific editorial stuff that's that's perfectly fine because humans are foundable after all is of the government yeah that came from the government well that's one of the being a rickover disciple was a big guy on nuclear submarines that certainly you know tried to design everything with with that Concept in mind that's actually one of the primary tenants of the safe Safe Systems approach is just acknowledging the fact that you know people make mistakes and and we want them to be hurt less right as opposed to the old philosophy of the stupid will be punished right you crashed it's your fault yeah yeah right yeah yeah right that the the thing that I struggled with a little bit is you know when we talk about lower speeds on the roads we talked about lowering speed limits and and every end over road is 25
miles an hour already already I I don't have a problem with I think 25 there's a couple of places where I go less than 25 around the curves because you can't see what's coming up but pretty much if we had everybody going 25 I think we'd be a pretty safe town I had a guy go wizard by me the other day on late Road and he must have been doing 60 you know and that's that's the problem you know and but so I don't think we would gain much by lowering speed limits but we do need to lower the speed which is a different thing but you know are there people that think we should be having speed limits less than 25 posted out there State there was a group folks on on Birch Birch Drive that wanted to lower the speed limit below 25 and SOC wouldn't allow it unless I mean obviously there's a few roads that are why don't when you get up into 40 and 50 everybody goes plus 10 you know but I don't think if we you know we would reduce speed much by lowering it down to 10 or 15 and all we
do is spend money on more signs but but any that was the the original question was how does it look how's the length how's the presentation all that I thought it was great and if we could get every chapter to look that nice U we'd be we'd be doing good right that's what I thought also yeah so I will I will thank you I will and and you know in this chap this chapter was particularly easy because of all the work that Eric has done over the years so I think the other ones are going to start being a little bit more challenging and and so what what we would propose to do and I'll let me go back up to the beginning is looking at these the five Envision statements again so we have the Envision statement about quality of life housing conservation Economic Development complete streets and and climate change so we have you know essentially one one chapter roughly drafted you know there's going to be some tweaking and now and I believe Jed correct me if I'm wrong I think conservation is probably going to be discussed next month and maybe economic development in January hopefully Y and I think conservation is probably might not be as easy as what Eric gave you but I think it's going to come in in very good shape yeah they I mean they've been doing a lot of thinking and a lot of planning yeah they have yeah I'm not sure how much elain's been able she's been pretty busy with
lots of stuff but we do have our leaz on member here on on the commission now with economic development with Patrick and and so I guess you guys are meetting tomorrow night to talk about that yes we are we've been investigating you know trying to bring out the positive benefits of our town and you know ecotourism and looking into all that those options and trying to support those businesses as much as we can and then you know we're brainstorming and researching on some other options to bolster that kind of thought process so okay yep so I think you'll get probably a something very similar to what you got from Eric from conservation hopefully we'll get that from Economic Development too I think they've got some different thoughts than they did before and then it's going to be the rest of these that sort of fall to you John to craft up for us so yeah so we'll we'll want to talk and again if we have those two sort of queued up we be to conservation next month ideally and then maybe economic development in January then we'll be looking and and then ideally what we'll we'll do is sort of follow this process so if we have the conversation with conservation in December by the January meeting hopefully I can get you this sort of chapter for con
conservation then queue up Economic Development February you'll have the chapter on economic development and we can have the conversation on the the next thing so we but that what what that leaves is the discussions of sort of quality of life housing and Civic investment in climate change issues we should we should start talking about if there are groups or individuals that we want to get their input so for for instance probably for the quality of life One Civic opportunities and quality of life we may want to talk to tests from the new community and Senior Center we may want to talk to someone from the schools we may want to talk to someone from Parks and wreck or and and and maybe get all of their inputs you know in one conversation
and then you know H housing we you know I'm I'm open to suggestions on who we want to talk to there but we we we need to have sort of queue up these conversations and invite the right stakeholders to the table Yeah I think for housing you're going to be talking to yourself using the last affordable housing plan that we came up with yeah and I think we'll we'll probably use that as a as a basis absolutely you know the town does have two I believe two Representatives on the Eastern Connecticut Housing opportuni board or start that again folks that own senior housing oh I believe it's eastern Connecticut Housing I there are a couple of town reps on that I don't know I don't know how they're appointed I don't know anything about it okay yeah other than that so yeah so I so I I would say in the short term what I will do is send around the word version maybe I'll maybe I'll just cut out the the the the complete Street section so it's just like a three or four page word version you guys can if anyone wants to mark it up and we can we can incorporate those changes and then we'll we'll we'll plan to queue up our our conservation conversation in December yeah because once you know once we get to the end I think it's like four takes four months from the time we have a finished document till we do the public hearing and we you know I think there's a brief to the board of selectman or something in there that we have to do there's a bunch of Hoops we have to jump through before it's you know done and done right we're we're probably
looking we're probably looking to to the fall so I'm sorry was that Leanne that was jumping in some someone on the phone was talking heard's voice also thought it was you Leanne but I see you're muted there any any other questions or comments on on PCD at this point okay I'm am I unmuted now yes yep go ahead okay should we be changing School Street to school road if yeah we should be changing it to whatever it is what is it school Road School Road okay yeah I'll I'm sorry I'll I'll I'll I'll correct that yeah okay thank you what is a speed table oh so it's it's a a a wide less less dramatic speed bump so it's it you can think of it also sort of as like a raised crosswalk where or you know they can be anywhere from I don't know 10 to 20 ft wide and it's you know you're sort of gradual it's just it's a little bit of a plateau that that functions as a speed bump essentially it slows traffic but it also sort of highlights a pedestrian Crossing it's a it's just a different Road treatment Wayne you had a comment this is simply procedural the documents and I'll defer I'll defer to you J but personally I'd like to see the word draft on these documents and a revision date if that's yeah yes point I can put I can put a I can put a watermark on it and it's easy to get mixed up on what's the latest draft if you don't
have the revision draft look like y okay go good point John the only other comment I had when I read through this again was that that somebody that's not intimately familiar with the town that doesn't know where all these roads are yeah you really need a map in there which shows you know the rail trail and then all the potential connections to it so you can kind of see this as a coherent ho as to where you know where the plan suggests improvements yeah I think that's absolutely correct I think we're gonna yeah there's there's much more I think I included obviously some graphics we're going to want to add more and definitely Maps absolutely eah okay anything else John I think that's all I have right now okay thank you thank you move on to Old business item proposed regulations so as to expand allowable uses on working farms and I'm kind of looking for some help from the commission here on the way ahead the we heard you know Ryan Fitch stopped by and you know told us but I guess he's he's looking for help to do things up you know through and including concerts and John drafted a regulation that that would have allowed that you I I struggle a little bit with when a guy has a Christmas tree farm should he have an expectation that we're going to allow him to do concerts there and I mean might be might be a good idea
might not be but my thought is that maybe that's not what we're looking for you know in in Johnny had a a a write up on nonagricultural related kind of things which were you know all kinds of different things from weddings to concerts and all that and and then I looked at John sent me and I think I sent it out to everybody the Columbia ranks and and I looked kind of you thinking that a Christmas tree farm probably I can see doing events at a winery more than I can at a Christmas tree farm and the regulations that Colombia had for the winery did not allow Amplified Sound Outside I think they only allowed it a couple times a year and you know we we would need to draft you know kind of specific to the the tree farm but but I don't know that we need to let him do everything that he was thinking of doing you know I know we had this scary trailer thing set up for Halloween and again not charging but you know is that you for it was a support of Charity and I don't know if that was what we expect to be at a Christmas tree farm or not now he came in and and
said I'm here to change the use of the property from a farm to a wedding venue or something then maybe for for a concert venue then you know that would be a different thing not allowed by our procedures but I'm trying to figure out way to the way to go and I like the Columbia approach and I asked John well how I know the town of Columbia has concerts at their little gazebo and and down at the lake how does that jive and in what did you say the answer to that question was John I didn't they well yeah col Columbia doesn't have sort of a separate zoning regulation or or provision for sort of community community events yeah it's it's sort of just done but yeah the the the town has well I mean I think I shared with you the W the specific wedding venue regulation that was that was adopted and the first the first one was approved actually formally officially two weeks ago because the lawsuit was Dr was Was Defeated so yeah so but but it's it's not really about active agriculture you know about special events at on active
agriculture in Columbia it's really about a standalone single purpose event venue so yeah the town the the the regulations that I developed that sort of in coordination with with Mr Fitch were sort of a modified version of something that was adopted not that long ago in East Hampton okay Patrick you had a comment yeah so we we briefly touched on this at our last Economic Development commission meeting and we're we've all done some research and brought up the propose the the draft proposal for this new mixed use but it falls under I I spoke misspoke earlier as ecotourism
it's it falls under AGR tourism and we we discussed it briefly because I had I had I had the draft with me but then the other members forwarded that draft so we're going to be talking about that tomorrow at our meeting okay and we're we're we're looking to be in line but our own thing and and over so you know we have been very permissive on a lot of things in our town and due to the smaller scope of a lot of our stuff and events you know it's it's it's a little bit different in in our town and and my my personal opinion is that you know we've been trying to promote and and support our local businesses that are you know a lot of blue collar and a lot of you know smaller Enterprises and homebased businesses so this does fall under the Agri tourism also like so I think that the economic development commission will be giving our input at the next plan at the next Planning and Zoning meeting we'll have something ready for you for okay for evaluation we have you know we we did like what John prepared but you know we want to see what else we can do with it and make recommendations I don't have official recommendation I got you that
sounds good that would be helpful yeah we want to support as much local business as possible without being well it's so yeah the other the other thing that I would add on that is you know John put in there that consistent with the state noise regulations and and I found that very difficult for me to understand what was going on you know how how I would tell but I do think it's similar to our light regulations that allow require a very small amount of light to trespass onto the neighbor property it seemed I think that if we were to go out and investigate what the the noise levels are coming off his property at that concert I think he going to be well in excess of what the state allows on that the other thing that I took away from because I was I was always told that measuring the sound levels is difficult and tricky and all that kind of stuff and it says in the state thing that the way to do it is there's an app for your iPhone it's free you just put it in there and it'll give you the sound pressure level I said wow how cool is that but but I don't know I think I think Mr would be surprised at how low his concerts would have to
be to to do that and I know my own comment when we have a good rock and roll band over here at the Gazebo is it's not loud enough now I know why because the you know because we don't want to be annoying all the neighbors we get we get the band playing out at the beach maybe twice a year they have you know one in the spring one in the fall and I don't think anybody complains about that but I think the the issue with at least the one neighbor was the the events keep expanding in scope and frequency and they just didn't know when when that was going to stop so I look forward to hearing from EDC next month on on what that is but but like the lights over at the soccer field you I I'll tend to be kind of protective of of the neighbors that you the comment I got was we're living next to a Christmas tree farm you know we didn't expect that so I think we could do both I I had some thoughts and just thinking about in general Farms Agriculture and what can we do in town
and farms are struggling they you know sometimes there one crop doesn't make it or something has problem I feel like we should really encourage people to find another way to get some income and really look into these kinds of other options and of course we have to deal with noise maybe light but I think that it definitely is a benefit to encourage them to find other ways of making some money so I know that the economic development commission will probably be working on that idea but I just well I I noticed there was one section in in the Columbia RS that talked about you no more than six noisy events a year and something like that and but my heart tells me that you we ought to be having something similar what we expect the town to do is the farm to do with respect to concerts now we can't tell the farm not to have a concert and then the town's out putting on concerts we got to we got to be consistent across cross a little better but I will wait with the baited breath you'll till next month when maybe we get something feedback on that any other any other thoughts on the working farm stuff yeah J I had a question refresh my memory does the noise ordinance change with the time of day or is it the same you know at 5:00 p.m. as it is at 9:00 p.m. because I was thinking maybe we limit Mr Fish
having the events you know maybe he has to end by eight instead of 10 or you know I don't know if that would help the neighbor situation well yeah he I think in John you'll probably you know probably know this better than me my guess is that there was something different in the time day I can't put my finger on it right off the bat but you could be noisier during the day than you could in the evening but I you go to a concert in moan sun and your ears are hurting when you get done with that thing no I understand that and and they even have a curfew of 11 o'clock or something but I was just thinking that if we wanted to
work with him and let him make some other income during the non Christmas tree selling time of year you know could he be doing some things during the day or early evening I think yes I think you know there's that that's a very good approach I I like that you know and I think most of the Town concerts are done by they normally 6:30 to 8:30 or something like that I think that's a reasonable time I know on the draft it talked about going to 10:00 I think that's certainly a little past my bedtime but but we can we can get there but I am looking for something that would be you know good guidance for the lake good guidance for the town and good guidance for the farm and try to make everybody happy and that's always a toall order but there you go I don't think I'd want to live next to a wedding venue oh I wouldn't no but I do I am pretty close to the beach and you know there's twice a year there's a band playing out there and and it's not huge they don't have those great big mono speakers they have the same kind of speakers as we use down here at the Gazebo and and it's not I don't find it annoying as far as I know we've never had any complaints about any of that going on but but anyhow I'd like it to work same rules for everybody who wants to have a concert kind of my thought okay that completes the old business the next thing on the new business is to set the regular meting dates for 2025 and I sent the I sent those out everybody for for next year's
calendar it worked very straightforward the third Tuesday of the month there was nothing that stuck out like it was prohibitive of that so I would like to make a motion to adopt the proposed 2025 PCC meeting schedule second okay lean we'll get you a second e on that one any discussion on on those dates at all okay hearing none I'll call for a vote an i Scott I lean hi Patrick I and I vote I as well that motion passes 500 next up is the discussion on the Bunker Hill Bridge here okay so Jim brought it to my attention that an 8-24 statutory referral was required for the bridge I didn't believe it was but then when I went back and read through the regulations I said yep he's right so I submitted one to the town I think replacing that bridge is consistent with the plan of conservation and development because certainly the plan of conservation and development envisions people being able to drive their cars to a significant fraction of town so I would urge you to vote positively for the the proposal to replace the bridge now why' you change your mind because I read the actual statute oh okay wow I didn't know if if I think it's an improved Bridge from what I read where it allows more flow to go through it instead of you know the individual pipes you've got going through it now it's got the big open space to allow much more there but trees won't get hung up trees might branches won't yeah but everything that goes through and Get on Up Now super any questions for Eric on on the bridge replacement I have a question yeah do we have any idea how how long that bridge
will be closed well look a little luck just over eight months okay than starting sometime between February and April depending on exact time I think they did that big one in Columbia in like six months y was very quick y Eric yes is are is there any possibility of the bridge being open even if it is closed back up again you know often on at any point during this process so once they start putting the Coffer dams in and they start putting micr pilings in no it would be closed period from that point because they have to tear out the roadway to do that the initial thing that's supposed to be starting February 15th is relocation of the utilities and that may take a temporary several day road closure but then the road would be opened back up until the bridge construction firm was in setting the initial Coffer dams but once that starts and the micropiling start going in it's anticipated that the bridge will be will be closed and about how long a time frame is that from what you from your understanding right now the contract calls for the bridge to be reopened basically in about eight months after it starts so a single construction season okay thanks any other questions or comments on the bridge hearing none oh so in a minute I'll make a motion to that I write and submit 824 positive of referral on that the somewhere along the line in the 824 world we had made an 824 referral
recommending the multi-purpose path along Route 316 and the scope of the project changed to have a path through the woods and so we haven't we haven't done an 824 referral on that either and that does take a little bit of town money where the bridge doesn't and it is certainly in a down Improvement and so I think it needs one it just got overlooked because we didn't know that was coming and so I would like you know my intention would be to write a combined letter for two 824 referrals one would for the bridge and the other would be in support of the
trail through the woods if that's what we choose to recommend and so J can I just clarify that there are two completely separate projects yeah the first is a multiuse path that runs down Route 316 that's in design phase right now the construction funding for that is already secured what's not secured is enough money to finish the design so that's a me and board of Finance discussion later this year the trail the potential Improvement of taking the existing Percy cook Trail and making that a more functional multi-use pathway that will be in design sometime this fall or this winter but as a separate Grant funded project with a different granting agency so they are two completely different projects y but we didn't recognize the trail through the woods when we started out it was right something you know I thought we were ahead of well we're still ahead on the 8 24s and all of a sudden it dawned on me that we hadn't acted on that so any any yeah well I guess I'll make a motion and then we can have discussion if we need to question I have is that since there's no real design for that do you want to do the 824 now or wait to till you have a final design do an 824 prior to funding funding there's no funding yet okay that's yeah I thought we were Further Along on that one than the 316 path but no just the opposite because I saw a a drawing showing where the path was going to be I thought that was the design okay well that makes it easy then I will
go back and make a motion to approve 824 referral for the Bridge replacement on Bunker Hill Road okay thank you Scott any other discussion hearing none call for vote an hi Scott hi lean I'm going to obstain okay make my math ard Patrick I and I vote I as well motion passes 401 with Leanne abstaining next up is discussion action response to request for comment on proposed FEA map updates I was going to point to Jim on that particular issue but he tells me Wayne you and Joe went through through the new updated Maps yeah and looking at what was presented here it doesn't look like the FEMA update is going to affect Andover is the outline of the affected area runs right along the Andover he Border Town Line and it affects the what's the water shed did you or Joe gotten the draft FEMA map did you seen the fat okay haven't seen the actual map that would be my comment is if they want comments on the map they make it easier to find because I've tried to get there and have been unable
to and I thought Jo me that he had gone on the website and and sent an email and expected to a response that was very recently yesterday Y no I I got you so so I know the comments are due I think it says in that presentation December 3D and I'll I'll reach out to Joe to find out if he actually did you try call Darcy you said you were going to call her and I didn't okay please do and it would be nice to see the map I don't think there's any changes to it but I would hate to be caught by surprise in and then you know the feedback is be sure make it I know they don't want these new maps getting out to the public but boy they're sure making it hard to get there well nobody can download the thing it's certainly not getting out of the public j i I got you they have solved that they've got that problem fixed so
anyhow Jim did you have anything else on the FEMA Map update you want to share with us no okay I'd like to know more about it but I I'm yeah working on it okay got it next item up is approval of minutes from the October 15 2024 meeting and I'll make a motion well are there any comments on the meeting minutes I have one I I thought you were going to make a motion first and then well and then so that probably is how it should go but then I have to amend the motion and all that stuff and so we're going to get the comments out here and I'll make a motion to approve it as amended I just want to suggest that public comment number 11 there Katherine Hutchinson comment in agreeance that the zoning agent be present I just thought maybe it should say something like noted sheo was in agreed I initially thought that when I read through that too and I looked up that word and it actually is really a valid word that means just what you think it should mean so well done Marina
yeah I I tracked that then yeah that was gonna be bi cave going through there what kind of word is this that I looked it up and sure enough it's a real word I should have done that didn't come up on spell check so I was like y any other comments on the minutes they very good I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as presented second thank you an any other discussion call for a vote an Scott Leanne I Patrick I I vote I as well motion passes five years any correspondence gy did receive a notification from thetic exciting Council that that a generator will be installed at or is proposed for the rotten Gun Club to to augment the the telecommunication Tower any improvements the sighting of towers and improvements go through the sighting councel and and they do allow towns to comment so that's the so the front page story on the River East last week was about the controversial cell power in marbor marbor no that was on Town property okay that's so I think that was the controversy I mean the town obviously has the ability to to agree to a lead or not on a particular piece ofer figure out exactly what the controversy was but I thought the title was catchy so I I did have a conversation with David Porter over that because I was a little curious David Porter's their Town Administrator and basically they've had a problem with emergency communications for some time and their fire department wanted to put up a tower on Town
property so they could have better emergency communications because they had a bunch of dead spots in a particular area and then the Town Administrator basically said well if we're going to go out to RFP on this why not do something where we can make a little money on it so they contacted one of the cell power companies because it corresponds to a dead spot in malor where they have pure coverage they got a bunch of proposals and then everybody came out of the woodwork stating this is going to you know everything from the RF signal is going to you know scramble my brain to it's going to fall down and Crush my car to you know the usual Litany of things that you get and there were some other you know obviously cell Powers caused visual disturbance you know that been some people plus it's in a residential Zone plus it's in a residential Zone But ultimately the board of Selectmen decided it was in their best interest to sign the contract and get the ball roll it still does have to go to the Connecticut San Council even though it's on Town property so people have another point of objection so that everybody knows there are two sell powers in Andover there's the one at the Sportsman's Club there's also another
one oh is that on Bunker Hill it's on Bunker Hill but I don't know whose property that's on was lean price I don't know whether still I do get if you want them every month or every other month I do get randomly packets every time somebody takes one particular dish or antenna off one of the towers and puts another one they submit this giant packet to be perfectly honest 90% of them I pitch them straight in the bin I Look to make sure they're not actually placing a tower and that they're just replacing an individual antenna off the tower and ignore if you want as a commission to get all those I'm happy to pass them on I'm certainly not willing to read through all of them no I think we're okay but thanks for reaching out to Marboro getting the story there it didn't I don't know maybe I got tired of reading halfway through that article and wasn't getting anywhere but I didn't come away with that so we there is a cell tower and a sportson club and they're doing what now they're getting a different one or expand no they're just adding a backup generator oh generator yeah okay okay moving on to administrative reports in the wetlands water course the big item at the last meeting
which I was not present for I was out of town was about the bridge and Eric's briefed us on that I did note that one of the approvals that Joe granted was for somebody Paving their driveway and this was you know 300 and something Lake Road and once again my concern is that you and I haven't reached out to Joe to specifically ask him but I'm pretty sure we probably didn't do a nutrient allocation worksheet for all the new impervious surface and so we're missing we continue to miss those opportunities to how did that happen I don't have any good answer for that Scott you pretty clear yeah yeah so there is a type of a pavement they can put down that allows the water to go through right it is yeah but they probably didn't use that no it's said you just plain old ass and not how long was it it it was not as big as the one on Lakeside Drive where they they paved the whole front of the House of the house yeah it goes from one property line to the other property line that's what their property yep so so we we I I'll we are trying to sh that with Wayne that would be an area that would be nice if we would improve on is is the the getting of those nutrient allocation worksheets every chance we can to help keep the lake in as good a shape as we maybe we need a banner or
something in that office cast zoning change and Outlaw asphalt driveway we are the building office is working to improve the driveway doesn't that spark somebody's well it's you know and and it's more than just driveways you know there's a couple of houses that got totally rehabbed and that would spark a nutrian allocation worksheet as well and I don't think we got those but so there's an area where we can do a little better in remember that okay eah some sort of workflow to ensure that Z zoning yeah it is and it in key to key to that process is a good relationship with the building official Jim you're you're up for administrative reports thank you General slowdown in in permit applications seasonal just probably just as well because we we've had early voting in the office and it's been little much it's passed CBA met in October held two public hearings one on the J's property 517 Route Six
applicant requested relief from the requirement to to basically Lo and see the Disturbed area that was denied second application for relief from building setbacks to allow construction of accessory apartment at for Sunset Lane was improved single family house built on on the two subdivis two lot subdivision at the end of Pine rdge Drive is nearly complete and I anticipate the owner will be SE seeo soon so Sunset Lane so Sunset and that's in the lake zone right so you allowed them accessory dwelling huh accessory structure okay all right yeah you did did I'm sorry I was going to say because that trips a different set of Regulation
y okay so U they are they the owner back to plan rdge the owner will have to regrade to pull Material off the Post Farm and I will in all probability have to have him post a n bond to ensure planting in the spring seeding in the spring now would it be a good idea to not disturb that property till spring when you can seat it moment it probably yeah so back to the enforcement letter that you sent him it tells him requires him to submit a written plan d he he did for a portion of the work but he didn't address that post forun I I would like to see a written plan that shows when and what he's going to do just because we've had a hard time working with him to remedy the situation there I can do that continuing to work with Ben Franklin on a safe plan not exactly him but the owners of Ben Franklin to address changes that they've done to the site I got a complaint regarding debris at 64 Longville Road in the matter of his result quite honestly it was resolved on its own anybody who drives by that house
it's really I mean it's been a mess for a long time looks great I did a great job Pur complaints regarding trees but I I did go out and take a look at them and I didn't think they met the the town's white ordinance the long vacant property 243 changed hands a while back new owner took the roof off basically Lev the violation and he's working on getting a survey to to move forward with the the total rehab of the structure and what road was that you said 243 Long Hill Long Hill okay Stone House just the walls right now yeah just just a point of Interest there's three permits for new homes that are in our system they've been in there for a while they're not moving forward very quickly but L they're there folks initiated a permit and then Chang design whatever finally I've just been working with Wayne as my replacement and I think it'll be a good fit and town and commission will be well served I got going back to the Ben Franklin so what did you say about Ben Franklin did you you told them to stop what they were doing until they come up with a plan okay and they seem to have done that now are they completely on their property they seem to think so because that looks awfully close to State Property the state prop yeah and unless they're going to end up putting in a retaining wall how do they
prevent I mean right now they just cut into a bank and left it they do are proposing a retaining wall I mean they I mean I forgot what you know think they're required to adhere to a would Repose two one whatever it is the r but they're they're proposing a retain W they just hav't they sto out they're working with an engineer supposedly I think they may be running up against a problem with lot coverage yeah that would make sense I suggest the should beat that with impervious pavement or gravel or acquiring a portion of the fish prop which is probably not a realistic but I don't know the whole thing's for sale he probably doesn't need all it yeah okay very good and I don't know the particulars I don't know how much of that property is is in blood Zone I don't think where he would expand yeah where he would buy he pretty much cut himself when he divided that property didn't leg the business has grown a lot over the years last 20 years it's changed it was a a plumbing and heating company now it's you know they now do a lot of sort of SE work with it on treen and such and then seg work but they have heavy equipment down there small heavy equip any other questions for Jim okay John you're up so you know obviously we spent some time right writing the the complete streets chapter the only other thing I would note about activity this month was worked fairly extensively
with Tess grous the new community and Senior Center Director on a programming survey now that the the center is up and running they they want to figure out what kind of programs and and events and activities and and services and classes should be held there so we worked up a survey I drafted it on Survey Monkey as well as hard copies so I Eric you can tell me if that distribution has started or the publ publicity of that has started but hopefully everyone will fill out the online online survey about activities in the in the community and Senior Center can have a paper copy for those seniors there there are so the seniors can stuff The Ballot Box like they did with the with the PCD survey okay very good anything else John but we didn't ask him about roundabouts for the
community that's well it's you know some some eagle-eyed seniors may see that slipped into the complete Street section and we'll we'll deal with that later very good next up is commission discussion in miscellaneous any commission members got anything they want to discuss tonight yeah Patrick yeah just a like afterthought I there was some discussion on supporting U some more senior housing and seeing seeing if we can get Town support for more of the affordable housing and that there was there was some there was some talk about how other towns and bigger cities you know actually help fund those programs but there there does seem to be some interest and developers that that want to come to our town and and do those kinds of building for us so mean not for the town but they're willing to come to our town and there's some business interests in that so I just wanted to throw it out there just let everybody know that in the past it's been it seemed like oh nobody wants to build in our town but there there seems to be renewed interest right now so thought bring that up yep I bet John would like to know who those developers are it's it's still all you know you know okay y development I guess talking about it so super that's good news yep anybody else public comment I see Katherine Hutchinson is
with us tonight yes I am I have no comment thank you okay thank you for attending is there anybody else from the public here I am limited with the number of names across the top I can't see how many total attendees we got but if there's anybody else from the public you got something to say now's a good time let me know who you are nope I guess that's that next meeting is going to be on December 17th it will be Zoom only we'll go to zoom for over the winter and other than that I thank everybody for showing up tonight thank you Ann for getting the thing running for us and and arranging the room and arena for a new standard of Excellence on those minutes and hopping out with that new word to train us TR us up on and everybody have a great Thanksgiving thank you you too thanks j y good night everybody