Okay, it's a minute past 7 o' and get ready for public hearing. we'll call to order and we are here to hear an application from Michael Heer 71 road. I got my glasses so I almost memory on this here. and the public hearing will be held in person at Unity Road in town hall 7 school and over the applicant is seeking relief from a denial of a zoning permit by the inter zoning agent. Specifically, the applicant was denied a zoning permit to construct a twocar garage intended for storage of landscaping equipment, a dump truck and excavator attached to a dwelling and to an existing onecar garage that is proposed to be converted to a workspace. Presentation by the applicant. of course with comments and questions from all of us. so you will gentlemen here and you have the floor. Sure. now the only thing that I'm really concerned about here is I was not aware of half of the stipulations and half of the correspondence that the lawyer said that I was facing. I was not cing in any sort of conversation with the lawyer. I was given any sort of correspondence until it was put on the website about two weeks ago. so I
didn't I didn't know that I had to put in a full-blown zoning permit like an A2 a whole new A2. I thought I had to put in a proposed idea on top of my Hue that I have for my property which is still existing. I was told by the prior zoning agent that that would be okay for this part of the stage because he think it's necessary to go to the building department to actually get all the A2 and and the topography and all that stuff laid out because it's like $5,000 to get it all out. It just doesn't seem at this stage necessary. So said, another thing that I found was kind of overreading over the, correspondence of what the lawyer stated was that the garage was a, let's see here, he was saying that it was a, 1650 foot square foot first floor, second floor. Well, seeing that it is not living space and second floor is attic, atticts are not counted as living space or as square footage in the building. just as the same as my attic, my house is not. but my basement or second floor of my house, which is a living space, can be perceived that way. It is on the website. It's 2900 ft. So take it out. I guess, you know, it's some people say it's 2,900 ft, some people say my house is 1,624. It really is based off how you take it. he he thought saying that the garage was too big essentially for the property. and I checked over and
over and over and over again. I thought I saw it maybe in older publications of the zone laws, but I couldn't find it in the new 2023 edition stating that had to be 70 70% or 80% or whatever of the existing principal property had to be that up to that square footage. If you could find that, that would be excellent. I've been talking about talking with my my designer about trying to get it under obviously that legal limit so I wouldn't have a problem. But can you state that again? So So most most towns have a square footage that you have to be with under for a accessory building. You can't have like a 4,000 foot accessory building with a 2,000 foot house unless it's like a bar. to the code and I thought I saw
something maybe it was a different time maybe it was from older publications saying they would have had like a page but I couldn't find anything on the new publications stating this tried to find the whole thing I couldn't find it so there shouldn't be an issue with size another issue is they're standing as an accessory building part of the principal property. It's connected. So the building is connected by resides to my house and also the existing garage. It's connecting both all together which mean all of it now are the principal structure. No accessory buildings anymore on the property. nothing, which would completely defeat that accessory building issue that the lake area has. and I I understand, you know, you're only allowed two-car garage. That's why I'm removing the twocar garage that I have now, using it solely as like, you know, I have a lathe and welders, this kind of stuff, but you can't fit cars in all that junk. That's right now outside and will rain kind of
thing will be in that garage. I won't be able to fit cars in there. It's It's literally to help me keep my items which I'm sure nobody wants to see out in the middle of a yard or have to be inside. We just had three bikes stolen right down the road here. I don't want that stuff happening. My property, you know, I have about $100,000 stuff outside. I really don't want that stuff sold. keep it safe from other people soon. the property would increase in value, revenue, passively increase to you guys. and all my neighbors don't mind their properties are worth more because they're going to eliminate selling would be a bad idea. Okay. as far as the A2 survey is concerned, you saw my email that I responded to that and that what were presented should be enough information for the board in my opinion for the board to render an
important decision. We can we can bring that up right now like the previous the previous officer had me draw literally said put my A2 my current draw like put it out the window we should we should go through and make sure Yeah, I if if something is being shown I can't see it. see what share you should be. Yeah. Okay, I can see it now. Yeah, yeah, you know, I don't want to interrupt Mr. Heckler's presentation as the appellent he has the right to go first but I wanted to just explain a way that's trying to turn Yeah turned everything bottom corner yeah this is all the way up it's all the way up it is all the way up I can see it just try to speak up a little bit for some reason it's really low on the volume even though ours is all the way Okay. So, can you hear me? Okay. Now,
it's a little late, but we'll listen hard. I think we we need just time out here for Michael. Okay. Alan Curo is representing or assisting me holding my hand through this hearing process. He's a within Sage. Do I have that correct, Alan? Yes. yeah, forgive me. I wanted to I I wanted to make a a brief presentation first before we got started. normally I'm I'm subbing for Mark Brance tonight. Mark Brance sends his sends his regards and his regrets. he was otherwise otherwise detained tonight. and normally we represent the town. However, in this case, because what we're doing here, this is a really a quasi judicial proceeding where the ZBA is hearing an appeal of a denied application. So in this in this instance the ZBA is acting as an adjudicator and under these circumstances the what who I'm representing is the the zoning agent Wayne Cassace. So I can't really provide legal advice tonight to the ZBA. I suppose I can answer a procedural question, but but I can't act tonight as the as the ZBA's lawyer. We understand that and we had that conversation earlier. Okay. Very good. I just I just wanted to make sure it was clear, right? But we could ask you questions if we had to. Yeah. Well, a procedural one. I can't give you legal advice. Legal advice. I understand that. Yeah. I had that conversation with Wayne and Eric and we were offered the opportunity to bring in our own lawyer but we refused it. So we're good. All right. So Alan, do you want you want
me to to go from here? You can do if you like, Wayne, I can I I can make a presentation or or you can give your presentation and then I can fill in the blanks or add whatever I want. It's add whatever you'd like. It's up to you. I was I was going to give Michael an opportunity to explain the the plot plan here that he submitted. Sure. yeah, that's fine. I don't want to interrupt the I don't want to interrupt interrupt the the applicant's presentation. I just wanted to make that procedural point just so we're clear going forward. I apologize for for breaking up the the presentation. So this plot plan is I literally put it on my window right over the existing A2 on my property. And this is my house. This is the proposed addition. You can say this is my existing garage, my existing driveway, the existing easement that the town put in few
years ago for the bus. now everything here is 100% to scale based off of literally the A2 survey. He asked the original I can't remember his name. Wayne, what was what was the guy before you? Jim. Jim. Jim asked me to add a few things on here. You know, my leech fields, the square, the the footage from my house, my septic. Well, basic things, updated setbacks because septac setbacks have changed. the the understandings have changed since 2002 when my or 2000 September of 2001 my AC was submitted submitted to the town for building and everything here is within legal standing and also it shows how my addition would be attached to my house making it part of the principal property. now essentially Jim had stated that it would
be acceptable at this point just this point building stages the whole topographic map you need to be able to use any of that for building your foundation anyways for at least getting this far it' be okay to present now I understand I have to go out of my way get a surve That's that's on it's fine. But if I had known that the that Mr. Grants had had stipulated this, I would have gone and done this back in February when the original correspondence was was sent to Jim and I received. So I was in the dark until literally two weeks ago kind of steamrolled into this essentially. so I had very short time to be able to find a surveyor and it's pretty hard to find a surveyor this time of the year within two weeks. So I tried to find the original surveyor who did my property but he passed away in 2022. We've heard out of pass away another company that blocked them out. Currently, we're trying to find all that paperwork so we can do a revision because that's all they'll need to do to add this to it. But currently, so that's this is why this should be okay enough to get me through this stage. not to the next one obviously just this stage with full understanding that I need to get a permit for a actual or a survey a full survey for what I'm doing I mean you proceed you can't just build stuff something I'm not right it's my understanding that if the committee commission grants thing then he'll have to continue with his essentially must correct me but that's my understanding I'm sorry I that last bit dropped out. could you repeat it?
That essentially that what Michael is going through right now is trying to obtain relief from the decision to deny the permit to build the garage. Should the commission here provide relief to Michael, he still would have to jump through the the hoops concerning an A2 survey and all that good stuff in order to get the final permit to construct the garage, which I'm compliing with. Yeah. Let me that's Is the applicant all done? I don't want to cut him off. But I'm I'm okay for now. Okay. this might be Wayne, this might be a good point for me to jump in because I think there's a couple of things here that I think I can clarify hopefully and and maybe it'll help explain this. So procedurally, what what this was was an application for a certificate of zoning compliance in the Andover Lake Zoning District. In other words, this is a administrative type approval that Mr. Heckler was requesting. And basically all that approval would say is that yes, you meet the dimensional requirements of the zoning regulations, you know, the setbacks, the the coverage, all that sort of thing, so that he can get a building permit. And part of the part of the requirements for an administrative permit is a is an A2 survey. And as as Mark Brance correctly pointed out, there was no a A2 survey done. Now, I know that the requirement for an A2 survey among zoning comm commissions generally is a requirement that's sometimes honored more in the breach and that I know sometimes you know that that that requirement is sometimes treated with a with a wink and a blink
and a nod. However, in this particular case, I think Mark was correct that you really need an A2 survey. If for no other reason than, you know, if you're talking about an administrative zoning permit for a for a shed or a or a swimming pool, you know, a small swimming pool, that's one thing. I mean, we're talking here about a 27 by 39 foot building that's larger than a lot of houses to be added to an existing house. So I I think in this in this particular case an A2 survey is is would be a proper thing to require. But even assuming for a moment that we had a proper A2 survey here, there there's a there's a another and I think more fundamental problem with this application. And again, it being an application simply for an administrative zoning permit. And that is is that we're talking about a a a quite large building which even if you don't count even if you don't count the the upper floor which I think in this case it's proper to count the upper floor because the upper floor is storage. Mr. Heckler said it's not considered living space. Well, fair enough. But this isn't intended to be living space. It's intended to be space in a garage. So I think it's proper to consider both the upper and the lower floors as as properly counted within the dimensions of the building. So if you do that, you're talking about a 1650 roughly square foot garage. And if you and if you add the the old garage, which I
guess is going to be connected to this in some way, you're up to not not connected physically, but connected as far as use, you're up to almost 2,200 square ft. So, you've got you've got a 1650 ft garage to be constructed and other space that's currently a garage that's being converted to some sort of space associated with this business. You're talking about 2200 square ft. The house itself is only 1,60025 ft. So, you're talking about adding space which is going to be used for a business that's larger than the house. So, that that raises that raises a a big red flag to me. And the red flag is what you're talking about here is an accessory use. I guess an accessory use, you know, an accessory use has to be customarily incidental and subordinate to the principal use. Now, what what I think Mr. Heckler is proposing is he basically wants to run his business out of his house and you
know, and it's and it's a fairly substantial enterprise. He wants to put heavy equipment. I I don't know exactly what kind of equipment he's talking about. Wayne and I spoke this morning. He was talking about a dump truck and a small excavator, which I assume would have to be transported on a trailer. When you talk about an accessory use, it has to be one, as I said, subordinate and typically used, you know, by a residential building. Now, what do you want? What do I mean by that? An accessory use could be a basketball court. An accessory use could be a swimming pool. your regulations don't get into specifics of what can and cannot be a accessory use, but we all kind of know what they are. A barbecue pit, a deck. interestingly, a lot of things that are permitted accessory uses would not be would not be allowed on a vacant lot because then all of a sudden you're not talking about an accessory use. Let's say, for example, I had this case in another town. someone had a piece of vacant property that he owned and he wanted to put a basketball court on it for his kids. Well, the problem was he didn't have a house on the property and so the basketball court
would would become the principal use of the property and in that town you could not have a basketball court on a vacant piece of property because then it would become the principal use. And I and I raised that example just to show the the difference and the contrast between a principal use and an accessory use. A lot of towns only permit one principal use per parcel of property. And in this case, the principal use is the residential dwelling. So you can have a garage as an accessory building of up to two bays as a as an accessory use. But, you know, we're talking about a a
twocar garage for two cars, two motor vehicles, two two automobiles, two SUVs, you know, a pickup truck would be okay, but that's all. basically if if you were to approve this application, you would be basically putting two principal uses on that lot. A residential residential home and a and a business essentially. Now, there are there are ways under your regulations that you can do that. I know that there's that there's special permit and site plan applications that can be made. I don't know because I didn't look at that question because that's not the that's not the situation we have here. But I know there are ways to to apply for a business use
on a property, but it has to be done by either a special permit or a site plan from what little reading I did on those scenarios. So, you know, the f, you know, the two problems here are the lack of the A2 survey, but the more fundamental problem is that given given the size of the building and its intended purpose, it raises the question of whether it's a proper accessory use for a residential neighborhood. And that means that it can't be out of scale with the rest of the neighborhood as far as as noise, as far as visual intrusions, as far as you know, anything anything detrimental to the character of that residential neighborhood. And I can think off the top of my head, if you've got if you've got heavy machinery being backed in and backed out of this thing, if you've got dump trucks coming and going, you know, that raises issues as to whether serious questions as to whether this is a proper accessory use. I will say that I agree with Mr. Heckler on one thing and that is that the proposed garage is not an accessory building. It clearly isn't because it's connected to and it shares at least one wall with the main residence. So, no question it's not an accessory building. But under the under the regulations, under the application that Mr. Heckler made, the only way you could approve this, even if you had a perfect A2
survey, is that this this proposed construction is an accessory use. And I and I think it's, you know, you would have to go by what's customarily approved as accessory uses in the town because you've got a lot of leeway under the regulations as far as what constitutes an accessory use. But in in in Mark's conversations and my conversation with Wayne, this is something that's clearly out of scale for an accessory use for a residential property, which is really the fundamental problem with this. This app this this application for a certificate of zoning compliance does not give it it doesn't give the town under the planning and zoning commission in the first instance you know sufficient input into how this thing would be run and you know what kind of conditions you might want to put on that were they of a mind to approve it but again I don't want to go too far down that road because that's not the situation we're talking about tonight we're simply talking about a denied permit for a certificate of zoning compliance for what for what I would call an accessory use and and and I think the denial under that particular you know box that we're trying to put it in the certificate of zoning compliance accessory use is is not a box that this thing fits in I mean basically zoning is
a is an inquiry agree to discover what box do you put a use in. Zoning is about the use of property. One other thing I I'll mention too is that I I know Mr. Heckler talked about a a hardship. you know, he's concerned about his property understandably. you know, he doesn't want to he doesn't want to pay, you know, expensive storage fees for his equipment. He's worried about theft. He's worried about weather effects. that those are all those are all legitimate concerns for a business owner. However, talking about that stuff kind of conflates this with an application for a variance and he didn't apply for a variance. And frankly, if he did apply for a variance, you know, claiming those things as his hardships, I I'm don't think it would be properly granted to him. Again, that's not the
situation we're in tonight. the situation we're in tonight is to review this application for a certificate of zoning compliance. And I think that that under the circumstances given the size of the thing, the effective the impact the the possible impacts on the neighborhoods, it's I think Mr. Cassace was proper in denying it as not a not a not a good accessory use. So I have to say they clearly that I would never be doing anything. I attempted to file a home ad. but it of course the the spaces were were not big enough for me to be broad enough with how I needed to explain it. So, I did write down my letter, which we're looking at two separate things. Correct. Correct. Correct. but he did mention Mr. O did mention that the business is being used or the space is being used as a clearly a enterprise which I have an office in that house and I have storage I'm not conducting any sort of sales we're not conducting any sort of I'm not selling top soil on my property not doing anything like that so
there's no actual enterprise being presented at my property at all. other than again storing like I switch anyone on the town. I mean we have plenty of we have plenty of landers contractors that live around the lake that are in the lake area that have barns and whatnot. I'm sure we're grandfathered in, but I'm not grandfathered in because anywhere else. they have full-blown landscaping companies. I know we have a lake. Three car garage side. He has a mini excavator. So do I. I mean, he puts it inside. He hides it, boxes in so that way nobody steals it. Very understandable. So break. It would be the same situation. will you have any May I ask a question? Sorry to interrupt you. We have any non-resident employees coming to or from the property? So only you will be transporting your equipment in
and another company. Yep. Yep. I'm a sle proprietor. I don't I'm not Do you have any employees? No, I'm not big enough to have anyone. I you know and that's really the thing. It's it's it's just me. I don't have a customer come in my house. I go to them to propose and obviously I come home write them up on my computer. It's all my office sort of filing and keeping files. So your equipment, so your your major equipment right now is dump truck, trailer, excavator, and that's all currently stored outside on your property right now. What if your business grows? Well, if it broke, then hopefully I'll be able to afford the actual place that I have like maybe buy actual lot. But as of right now, it's not reasonable and it can't become that bigger until because one of the one of the things in in the zoning regulations is bringing traffic, extra traffic into a neighborhood. So, say say this is granted and hopefully you're successful and your business grows. How does that affect your neighborhood as your business grows and you might have, you know, a bigger truck, a bigger excavator, you know, more trucks? I mean, that could affect the neighborhood because that's that's part of what this is about. There's only so much you could have on property. If I were to get a
triacle, I wouldn't be able to fit in my property, right? The weight, it just would sink. It would not be ideal. And I think in the regular it says you can only keep one commercial vehicle on property and it has the storage side. These are not commercial vehicles. They're all under commercial vehicles. you don't need something over 2500 GPW to tow that check that back commercial is 2599. Yeah. that you do that on I have a fulltime pickup truck or two pickup truck and then I have a regular dump truck that is lab. but other than that I mean I'm not interested in buying a not interested in buying a a lowboy 50 foot trailer and keeping at the house like a complete red. another issue is I I did change the floor plan to a non if that would change. There's there's also a on repairing items. I'm not sure if that that's refers to like an auto repair shop or that your own sure how that anyone that has like a mini excavator or landscaping equipment like little lawn mower or buy chainsaws. You need to be able to repair them. You need to be able to keep a little
inventory. Yeah, I understand that. But there is a thing in here says not involved repairing any regulations. Yeah. So I'm not sure how it's not but you know how that obviously you've got maintain your equipment. So how that how that okay and he did point out that I did not apply for a variance. but I believe I off my head I did fill out the variance area as well because I did the hardships in there. You wouldn't need to put the hardships if you weren't applying for the variance, but you could only check one box. I would have checked both, but you're not allowed to. I wanted to not only correct the issues with the the zoning decision on the
regulations that were being used against as well as obviously I think that also has a time limit on it. So probably in your best section to not have applied for the variance yet. How tall is the proposed garage? There's a 20 foot 13. it's not it's it's not fully that's the thing is it's not done yet. It's just proposed. It's not full. Yeah. We currently get it more detailed. So yes. Yeah. So thinking that those things would be ironed out later. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because accessory buildings have to meet a certain standard for building is a building height. Yeah, it's like what 33 which this is I believe it was like 26 I want to say but that's again proposed that's just a a standard pitch that's not a gamble which could have been again that's this is just a rough draft well, what I would what I would say in response is just to re-emphasize a couple of the points I made before. there are ways to accommodate commercial vehicles and a lot of the other things that Mr. Heckler wants to do under the zoning regulations. However, those those routes involve either site plan review or special permit review, which means, of course, that you can put or those the planning and zoning commission can put whatever conditions and specifications in its approval, should it approve it, that you know, can can
kind of control it. you know, in this case, again, what we're talking about was a was an application for a certificate of zoning compliance. And I I think, you know, for for this particular application, you're trying to put a you're trying to put a a square peg in a round hole. Another point that attorney Brandt made in his his email to Mr. Cassace was that you know there wasn't enough specificity especially as to the the current garage exactly what was going to go on there. you know attorney Brandt had questions about well he's going to repair what's he going to repair as was noted you're not supposed to repair repair equipment as as part of a home business or a home occupation. you know, those are the kind of things that can be controlled or that can be explored in either a site plan or a special permit application for for these for these particular facts under this particular application. There there's not enough oversight. And there there's also the question of whether it even fits even if you could give it oversight as far as whether it's you know the appropriate scale the appropriate you know level of intrusion into the neighborhood. So you know I'm I'm not I I can't stand before you tonight and say that there's no way that Mr. Heckler could legally do what he's proposing to do under your regulations. There may be. I didn't explore those things with with Wayne because that's not the question that's before us. The question that's before us is whether the the the application for a certificate
of zoning compliance was properly denied. And I think given the totality of of the facts and you know the the portions of the regulations that are relevant, I I think I think the answer to that question is yes, it was properly denied. So that's that's our opinion. But that would only apply to an accessory building, which this is not. any short, shape or form. It's part of the principal building. It's not that accessory building. It literally says in the stipulations that an attached building to the principal building by a covered walkway or having a wall and part come with it is considered an integral part of the principal structure and not an accessory building. Therefore, it is not accessory building. So thatates everything a whole section for one of the things the attorney brought up was accessory use as well. Section seven that's not there. It's in it's back on the website section next. Yep. That one. So remember this is in the Lake District. So this is now if you go scroll down please permitted right there. Right. That's permitted uses in the Lake District garage 7 section 70.3 garage accessory use for no more than two motor vehicles. One dump truck one pickup truck. Have equipment are not considered vehicles. They don't have any
sort of plates on them. A trailer is not a vehicle. But a trailer doesn't have a It's not vehicle. Doesn't have I I understand you just said it's not just it doesn't have a plane heavy equipment doesn't have. It's a registered. Yes. The excavator is not going inside. any memo. The very last one. The townly states a motor vehicle as a as the attorney spoke of a car SUV pickup truck. That's your typical this one. No, the one we have at the bottom. Oh no, the other ones. And this is actually version two of this memo apply for a home occupation. So I revised the memo to reflect that. I I revised my original memo to reflect his application for home occupation permit which is till so you want to scroll down to the discussion I believe as far as the site plan provided it is concerned that there's enough information in that
drawing that Mr. Heckler provided to understand the placement of the new structure along with the existing garage and the existing residence. It does meet the setback requirements in the Lake District as far as distance from the center of road and sidelines of the property. Scroll down a little more. Right there. Well, the very last sentence, I I believe this proceeding should be should the decision be reversed just paves the way to continue with the planning zoning application that Mr. Hecker original that was signed in his application Mr. airport. He stated that that this landscape equipment excavator are incidental to his residential use. That he uses the residence as as the home office. The appeal is in my view largely based upon the economic u what's what's the word attorney fur econom an economic hardship oh hardship hardship yeah in my reading of the relevant statutes is not hardship is is is not cannot be considered It's not the sole basis for granting relief. Yeah. But what basically the way I understand is your case where you're creating the economic hardship wasn't placed on you by the town. You're creating by having all this expensive equipment that needs to be stored somewhere have business. So that's the way I view it is the if the applicant created the hardship, the financial hardship, then it's not a hardship. But the problem is the talent's getting more safe. No, I'm not
I'm not denying. I'm just saying I'm trying to add clarity to what you were talking about, which is financial hardship. And if the applicant creates the financial hardship, it's not considered hardship that we take into consideration. Yeah. And I would add that more fundamentally, this isn't an application for a variance. this is a this is an appeal of a denial of a of a zoning certificate. So, you know, it's I mean at some point, you know, we could have that conversation should it become relevant, but even even leaving aside the question of what's a proper hardship to grant a variance and the courts have gotten a a lot more stringent in the
last seven, eight years or so as to what constitutes a proper hardship to grant a variance. It's it's really beside the point because that's not the question that's here before us tonight because this isn't a this isn't a variance application. Actually, we're not looking for a unique hardship. We're only looking for that's what used to hear. Yeah, I I just added it just in case it needed to be said. Yeah. So, this is a bit of a new case for this board as well. So, let's opinion on on this matter is that the application was was it was properly denied and whether whether or not there's another path forward I'd be happy to explore it with with Mr. and you know council. So I think as right now I don't believe that that's part of the consideration there. Okay. So it would appear that one of the key things that was talked about was the size or the if you compare the living structure compared to the accessory. The accessory is much larger or out of proportion to the living structure. Seth my my I when brought that up I quickly went through the regulations. I cannot find anything in our regulations that talks about the size of accessory structure or nothing comparison. Mr. Kun talked about that I'm sure right Mr. Alan, when you were talking about the size of the structure, this structure is compared to the residence. I don't believe there's anything in our regulations that specifies that restricts the size of an accessory structure per se. I I didn't find anything either, but to to repeat
something I said a while ago, this application is not for an accessory structure. It's for an accessory use because because the the the new construction would be integral and and connected to the the residential property. So, it's not an accessory structure. It's not a shed. you know, a a a separate a separate building. So, you know, I I think that the question again, there's a lot of things that don't apply here. I think another thing that doesn't apply is the whole concept of whether or not this is a proper accessory structure because it isn't one under the regulations. It gets back it get it gets back to the definition of what's an accessory use. And excuse me if I could just check my notes here. It's a use customarily incidental and subordinate to the principal use. So the res That's that's the standard that you have to apply. And the question is whether a a a construction that's at at least the the same size or larger than the house
for for the storage of either heavy equipment or u a dump truck is a is a proper is a proper accessory use. Now, I know that motor vehicle something I probably should have mentioned earlier, I couldn't find a definition for motor vehicle, but the regulations do make a distinction between motor vehicles and commercial vehicles. And there's there's some weight limitations and and other things that apply to commercial vehicles. So I I even though motor vehicle is not defined I think I think it's a fair statement to make that a motor vehicle even though it's not defined in the regulations means the types of vehicles that I I mentioned earlier and because it talk the regulations talk about commercial vehicles you know what what the applicant is proposing to store there doesn't really fit into the definition of motor well into the concept of motor vehicles under the regulation which is why I think you know the accessory garage for for no more than two motor vehicles isn't a hook to this either thing with commercial vehicle like you said it has to be under a certain weight that's for anything you can't have 100,000 pounds going down the road on it's going to be too heavy for it so that's why we have state laws I'm a CDL holder I the DOT hell about this stuff. you know, when it comes to a commercial vehicle, you have
to in our regulations here, you have to abide by it certain way. You can't put can't just leave it on the side of the road. you have to leave it in partic or dirt. you know guys oil. You don't want that in your soil. You know, you don't want that stinger. You're better off sting your concrete than you are ruining, you know, anything. same thing with things always. I mean, you can't have a piece of heavy equipment is anything,000. So, my main weighs 11,000. is not added, but they still legal use. I don't want my soil getting roasted or anyone's so getting I'd like to be able to keep it inside and it's nicer when it's on a piece of concrete to see if it is dripping something I can fix it right away so that way I'm not contaminated, you know, and you can see it. You don't see it, you know, and having it out of out of sight and out of mind. It's like it's an integrity thing. Integrity is what integrity is what's being what's being done behind closed walls. Like you you don't want something sitting out in the open rotting away making your property your neighbor's properties lower value. Hiding it, keeping it a secure spot. It's not going to make any more noise inside than it is outside. It's not going to make any more noise than dirt bikes going up and down the road or the bus we have all over the place. kids. You know, we have a bunch of muscle cars around here. It's not anymore. This garage has been my my two car garage has been a haven for the
local kids. you know, I have my neighbors work here who are saying they learn a lot. They learn a lot about working on cars and even working on their own stuff. It's just it's a it's an asset to the community. I don't know what all are, but for sure it's as I don't like looking at all that crap. And as I would love to go up there and just blunder and drive away, you know, but it puts it in the safe spot. It's got a point. It's safe. It's out of everyone's way. It's out of their line of sight. And realistically, this guy's a great neighbor. He's taught my kids and my stepkids so much about just doing their own thing. Now that's their hobby. I don't I got I got nothing but I mean I I I love to I love to tinker. I mean, you stopped by today. I was tinkering on I mean I love muscle cars. I love cars, you know. So having kids around know that like not as a business or anything like that but just as a little hobby. this thing just it it not only keeps kids of the neighborhood out of trouble which do all what we want especially now but you know I believe it's helping the neighborhood all my neighbors if they have questions about stuff or you know you know they I prepared the road for us because our our road past my
house is actually private road that the town doesn't provide any sort of help. I started that I just dropped all kinds of money in the buildings. We had a really bad rain. I had to come in and make it so they drive and it didn't do a heck of a lot, but it helped so they can drive on the road because the town do anything for them. And another thing, there's nothing else going in up there. Nobody can build anymore anyway. So all the people around him is what he wants to do. But it's a dead end road. It's not like
it's nobody passes by my house just by chance. They use they literally use the eent to turn around and go back down the road. The most traffic you see is this, you know, wish I'd been happy to literally give up about 40 or 50 of my properties. It's just been ever since I moved in, I've been nothing but helpful and flying with town. I I want nothing to make this go as smoothly and easily as possible. That's that's why I've been just trying to do everything the way someone wants. I'm not jumping to, you know, beat anyone out. I'm literally just asking for a little assistance on this. You know, I'm new to
this kind of thing. 30 years old. I'm not, you know, nuts, some some crazy big, you know, entrepreneur that, you know, I don't have any sort of understanding on this stuff other than what I'm learning here today, what I've learned through this whole process. So, you know, I'm sure there's mistakes I made, but I take them and I correct. That's it's what we're here for now and that's what I plan on doing in the future. It's only matters concerning personnel. Yeah. Personnel things that We have to close the regular session. I I don't want to cut you guys short. Yeah. So, is there anything else before we close session and move into the break to the U into the call for the application hearing? Well, I just wanted to make sure that all the all the questions that were asked or need to be asked were asked and I could answer them to the best my ability. There's nothing more to offer. So again, I believe that the denial of the certificate compliance was proper. like I stated before,
if there's another path forward, I'd be more than willing to to look at that whether or not this can be done for special permit application. already has the application in and also these application forward and so if we deny this tonight he could still he could Attorney Curo if if this if relief is denied tonight Mr. Hecker can still presumably move forward with a special permit application. Correct. If if indeed regulations do allow for that. Well, I think as a matter Wayne, jump in here if you disagree, but you know, he would yeah, he wouldn't be precluded from if if it was just a matter that he hadn't chosen the proper procedure to to proceed. I mean, generally if a generally if if a zoning you see in this case, all it is is an administrative permit. You're just saying that an administrative permit just says, "Yeah, you meet the doning regs." There aren't typically any conditions attached or any inquiries that are made or statement of use or anything like that. so if if you were to uphold the denial of the the zoning permit, you know, I don't think it would preclude an application, you know, after, you know, proper, you know, consultation with Wayne and whether it makes sense. And I it wouldn't preclude him coming back under a separate procedure where the planning and zoning commission would have the opportunity to review it under all the standards and the regulations that apply to a special permit or a or or a site plan approval. So, all all you're voting on tonight is the is the denial is whether to whether to grant or deny the appeal of the zoning of the denial of
the zoning permit. So, what I'm understanding is essentially we jump the gun here. Ralph way too much information or the zoning portion. So essentially all I'm asking is just to get through the zoning part so we could get to the real you know the reality here there one of the things hanging up here as the attorney and and and way brought up is whether the use of your your new garage whether that's you know whether it's subordinate to the use of your residence right you have a residential property. Yeah. So, if you put this garage on there and have your equipment and have all that stuff in there, does it become a a residential house attached to this garage, which is why the reason of the size of the garage becomes an issue, or is it a garage that happens to be attached to your house where you store your where you store your car? And I understand this. I mean, obviously, it's again that comes back to like what I'm using for, right? You know, I'm not Let's just say I were a a wood shop or a woodworker. I'm not building furniture or or little sheds or something out of it. I just happen to live on site. Your work is all done off. So essentially this storage like you would have a lawn or you have anything. It's essentially just the toys. Well, the storage of commercial equipment. Yes. It's a little different than just storage of your lawn mower. Correct. Correct. Because you're not you're not used to this stuff. This is not for use on your properties for use.
Right. Yeah. And of course I I have two acres so I could be happy on my property if I didn't have more time where four hours today. Right. But it's primary use for your business. And and when we spoke the first time, I don't think you were there yet, but I spoke to Jim and it actually was my primary use was on property, but I started getting more and more interest in people using media for offsite things. And then I had to make the full up. So that's where things kind of changed a little bit. Understanding kind of changed the Probably $10,000 a month. Yes. For something that is like this. Most people Yeah. We're talking like $10,000 a month. And I don't know about you guys, but that's a lot. There's a lot and I could build a garage for that Construction. So, I mean, it's it's it boils down to that's why the it came down to we're talking
about hardship. $10,000 is a lot for a lot of people and I get it's an economical does say does say a hardship and it doesn't really go into it very very much the regulations. Yeah, the state law is unique unique. It means financial applicance. this if if this can move forward, it wouldn't need a back because it needs to set back the height requirement that come by and since it's not a secondary use what would be the maximum was it ft and I believe their house is pretty darn high. Right house would be 12 ft plus the roof plus the It's the use. It's the use. The customarily incidental and subordinates depressible use is the basis of denial. It doesn't moving forward. So I see. All right. I think do you have anything else you want to ask? I don't want to cut off. Is there anything else that attorney would like to ask before we close the session? would like to add? No, I'm fine. Wayne, you good? Yeah, I'm good. Okay. So, at this point, then I'm going to call this public hearing to a close and we will continue on with the actual CBA meeting. And at this point, what I do need to do to have a quorum is I need to seek an alternate tonight, which is the Excuse me. Are you guys are you guys going to vote? Are you guys going to vote on the do you do you vote now? I have to close the original meeting and go into the actual hearing and u see Oh, no. What I was asking is so if if
you're going to make a decision to either grant the appeal or or deny the appeal, is that something you typically vote on? Yes. Yes. Okay. And and and you're going to proceed to that? Yes. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. so the other thing I would just say to you is we only have a board of five people. you have to have yeses to move this forward. So, you only have four people tonight. If you wanted to, you could always delay action and we could come back and we could have you take a bowl of dice that we would have Dave Huick here who's a full seat. We'd
have five people seated and you don't have to get four or five instead of four or four. I'm just throwing that out there as one of those. That's weird how that works. Yeah, it's very seclude one to three. Yeah. Yeah. But It does. I didn't make those up. Just regulations. Regulations, right? So, you know, it's your odds, I guess you could say, are better. Five four. Not. so I'm going to close the meeting and so I'm making a motion to seat as our alternate tonight. any second to that, Fred? Any discussion? All those in favor? Okay, great. so at this point then I'm just going to reread the motion that is or the application that's in front of us. Oh, I'm sorry. I should actually do that. Is there any additions or changes to the agenda? A special meeting. I don't know if there's actually Yeah, would be. Although it's on the agenda. your bags and public speak. So really had our public speak and I think you really had your chance at public speak unless there's anything else you want to say. Good. Thank you. Good. So we will again we're discussing the
application 202502 Michael Heckler 71 Basal road an annivers from a denial of a zoning permit by the ann zoning agent facilities after was denied a zoning permit to construct a two-car garage with storage of landscape equipment a dump truck and excavator attached to a dwelling and existing twocar garage that's proposed to be converted into a workshop base. so at this time I will entertain a motion. only by do I have a second on that second by Fred discussion I do think and I support your idea and you know running storing your equipment somewhere I'm fully on board with that I just the law and the and the argument by our zoning agent. I think they're right on and I think gota got to find some other way way to do this. You know the accessory use of the building the subordinate it I don't think it's no longer subordinate to the residential use of the property the way we want it. and I do have some concerns about the residential nature of the neighborhood and I know there large vehicles going through there. there all I would ask is obviously and I think you get that from Wayne. and and I I agree with most of your arguments as well the truth through the line with the exception of the one piece which is subordinate use. so is there any discussion? Yeah, we have to follow the law. Yeah. No, and getting past that. It's not a shut down to your your process. So, by and that's what kind of help my decision. It's helping me make my decision too because it doesn't stop your process there. So, any other discussion? Definitely. Yeah. Then in that case I'll call the co the vote and all those in favor of
motion to deny say I. I. All those opposing. If so again good luck. I wish you best luck. I do agree with everything you really got to say about as far as the building you know the leaking. I know a lot of people have equipment too and good friend of mine worked at my house the other day. of those tons of Pollocks just filling all the way. I I get it and I wish you the best of luck cuz I I really do. But I think I'd have to go with our lawyer and our zoning agents. Remember, he's not your lawyer. He's not your lawyer. He's the town lawyer in this case. And that I could have my own lawyer anyways. But I do. Yes. I don't think I think you changes to the application will make this a lot smoother for you. Yes. So in that case then the next piece would Yeah. Thank you Mr. appreciate your help tonight. Oh, glad to do it. Hope I hope I filled in properly for Mark. He's got some big shoes to fill. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So, we're just moving on to the to the regular mundane business. Okay. I'll I'll bow out. Thanks a lot,
folks. And good and good luck, Mr. Heckler. is there any old business? the only business I see is vacies on we really don't have a vacancy right now. We have doesn't come and I didn't get a chance to contact that particular person on that person. so that's the only app. Thank you. so at this time I I need to work on whether or not signature that person. Yeah, I really don't know Evo's situation right now. I haven't seen him quite a while. So in over a year I know that at least. So I'm going to pursue Colin Elo. I just been busy. So she saw Carol. He was a Carol. I saw him. That's what I was going to say. I basically saw him and I I could be in and out to go party. Oh, I got you. Wow. so then I would like to adopt the minutes. I wonder can we do that with just three people? I think we can. Right. So I know we review those minutes I have and Fred from the January meeting. I would make entertain a motion to approve the minutes that I'll make to approve and any discussion. All those favor. So the minutes of Virginia meeting have been approved. She would have to and then miscellaneous. I don't have any miscellaneous business. I would obtain a motion to motion a second. All right. Any discussions? All those favoring people. I had a hard time understanding until
Yes. very close to and he pointed out again. It's it's the