Hi, Bill.
Hi, everybody. All right, this is the board of finance special budget workshop meeting, April 2nd, 2026. It's 7:04. We're going to get started. We'll start with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.
Okay.
And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Okay. Welcome, welcome, welcome. So, we were just chatting. We have most of our board. We are missing Nick for the moment. He's going to try to log in, but he's got spotty Wi-Fi out on in California, wherever he's at. So,
we have Liz.
We got him. Great. If we don't, we don't.
Oh, there's Liz. Okay.
Yeah, Liz is here. We've got Liz, we've got Kim, we've got Louise, right? Yep. We've got Heather's here. Yep. You're muted, Liz. Okay. So, I think one of the things we want to accomplish tonight is to go through the budget one more time, make sure our effects and figures are correct, make sure we've got the right numbers that are feeding into our presentation and our overall in our tax rate calculation and everything like that. and one of the issues I know Bill and you and I had talked about, we raised it a little bit last night, I think, was the overtime, the public works overtime thing.
and we had kind of delegated you to ask about that, get some more information and come back on it. do we want to start there? Maybe.
Sure. again, I don't know if anybody else remembers or found anything in your notes. I think Kimberly said you were looking
Actually, shouldn't we start with public speak?
That's what the agenda is.
Oh, I'm terribly sorry. You're you're correct. I'm terribly sorry. I got the recording thing at least. All right. we'll go around. So, well, Lisa is our treasurer, but Lisa, if you've got anything to say. Nice try.
Okay, very good. Chris Nye,
public speak. You have to unmute yourself, Chris, if you're al quick. Thank you everyone. just, you know, hoping that tonight you're able to tighten up the expenses a little bit here and there. Every little bit counts. I know that tonight's important. I wanted to point out, you know, I know that everyone's been afraid to make. I've made it no secret that I think this budget is a little bit too high, you know, to pass in the town and so hoping it can be tightened up. want to also remember that all the years that I can remember, there's always been a contingency, which we've never dipped into. There's been a surplus return to the town every year. So, I mean, we've been overbudgeted. So what I'm saying is to the nervous part, you know, there's if for say one or two lines you gamble on and it ends up needing a little bit more money, I think there'll be money to transfer in. So to keep a budget so high is kind of, you know, I don't think worth doing that. I'm hoping you can cut some more. I also wanted to, you know, apologize. I had the town clerk assistant town clerk I sent an email earlier today correcting myself you know that had taken on you know some significant raises in the past so it
looked you know in the past year so it looked high apologies out there to that person I wasn't trying to you know I just wanted the figures to be right I'd also like you to look into the town planner sorry that I'm bringing all this up but I know this might be our last time or whatever you can find out that was never really an employee in the past that was a service. So, I feel like, you know, it got an automatic 3% raise there. I don't know if that's needed. I know the gentleman that performs those services was great. He comes to some town meetings. He presents like the affordable housing plan, the POC plan, and I don't know if it's the same person that's going to get that raise, which amounts now to 49444 from 48,000. So, I hope that's solidified with a contract or whatever. I don't really think it's a town employee. I could be wrong. And then, just to remember that I think our town charter has changed so that
whatever you all decide on and bring, you know, to the town meeting, it's a courtesy. You'll do your presentation. people can make motions there to decrease. but then this is going whatever you decide on is going to a referendum. I don't think we vote anymore as a town whether to accept your final thing. I think it's kind of you know, and apologize, I'm coming down with something, but I think it's kind of a formality. So, it's really important that you do your due diligence on whatever cuts you think you wanted to make because I don't think you can. It's coming back to you after that town meeting. It's going straight to referendum. Thank you. Good luck.
Thank you, Joanne. let's see. Marcy,
hi. I just wanted to comment on the town planner. I really hope you don't touch that because our town has been falling behind all the other towns around and we really finally started feel like we're kind of trying to get somewhere with planning for our town for the future. And there's there's a there's a lot of value for the town planner. So, please don't touch them. All right. Thank you. Bye.
Okay, I'll circle back to a couple of the people who had called on before. Oh, actually, wait. Scott Sadette.
Hey. I just wanted to get on and say I hope you don't reduce the school budget. it is I know it sounds high, but looking at what they've done for the last decade, and they are not too high. And I looked at the lawyers letters, the dueling lawyer letters, and one of them is very clear and very straightforward and very easy to read and very understandable. And the other one is parsing the words about in all sorts of thing. I'm forgetting the word here, recommendation, trying to parse that into meaning something very different. so I just want to say I think this board needs to be very careful about that. That's it. Thank you.
Thanks, Scott. All right. Wait a minute. Did we lose some people?
We have Val also.
Yeah, I'm gonna get to Val. I see.
Okay.
I just I'm sorry. I was looking. Did we lose Carol? I think we did.
I see.
Yeah, Alicia just joined. Valerie, do you have public comment for us before we start?
Hi, thanks. I just was going to echo the same sentiments that Scott said. you did a great presentation last night. You brought a lot of things to light. I think it's also, you know, definitely worth us noting that we have a budget for the whole town to consider both sides there and we had a lot of years of loss that we need to try to recoup a little bit of now. So, thank you.
I just wanted to say I appreciate all your guys' hard work and I also support the school budget and with needing the extra sixth grade teacher, I feel like it's really important. Thank you.
okay. Let's see. I I I think we lost a couple people. maybe they'll come back, but there's another round of public speak at the end. So I guess if there's no one else hearing none, we'll proceed. So thanks for reminding me, Louise, to do that. All right. back to going through the budget. I thought we'd just get the the public works thing out of the way and then we can maybe circle back and and look at everything else.
Are you going to bring it up and share it?
Yeah, one second. Hang on a second. I I want to find it. There it is. Okay. I don't know why it's being so difficult. There we go.
Is this the overtime question?
Yeah.
So, we talked about it last night, but I just wanted to make sure we were done. And
Kim, I think you said you might have had notes that you were to check. I don't know if you did or not. your v you're muted, Kim.
Sorry about that, Bill. I did not find my notes on this. I'm sorry. I did check.
But I I am pretty sure that we we decided this because we looked at the actual expenditures.
Yeah.
And agreed on, you know, it was a five. It was a minimal deduction. I mean, it's not high amount anyway. We also I think we compared this to the con the overtime for the snow removal. There's two different spots. It's I'm thinking it through.
And we felt like we could reduce the upper line because this was that's a significant line item if I remember correctly. I'm just thinking.
Yeah. I mean, the thing is, we know we're over this year on snow removal OT. that number budgeted number is up. I think it's just up%.
Yeah. Okay.
So, I mean, I don't know if this is the end of the world one way or the other, but
I thought I'd raise it. We cut a request for 135 down to five,
right? you know if we're comfortable with that I I don't have a huge problem with it but you know the explanation we got from public works remind me Bill again was
just they a lot of times get called out and a perfect example came up two weeks ago where a tree fell across their road on a Saturday and it you know ended up having two a large tree you know two workers had to come out on a Saturday got overtime for that they were up there for a couple hours and then you know, he talks about how that happens quite a bit. I know on on Bear Swamp, it seems to happen at least twice a year where we get a large tree that falls across the street. I don't know where else it happens. And then whenever there's construction work where we hire an outside contractor, we have people on site the whole time. So, if you have a contractor that works to 4 or 5:00, we'll have road crew there the whole time. They don't go home at the normal time, I guess. So, that's where some of the overtime comes in as well. And I I forget some of the other things he
talked about, but he he did mention quite a few things where overtime outside of snow overtime is is there. So I don't know why it's such a big increase this year from you know looks like 3500 on average 3,3500 up to 135 but we did look at it and cut it to five. I don't know if we cut it too much or not or if that's a good number.
Do you want to raise it up to six? I have another exact number in my head.
I had I had six in my head. I was just thinking maybe just go to six.
Why don't we just Why don't you know I mean if if it has to they need money for overtime, we're going to find figure it out, right?
Yeah.
My thought is my thought is like we're looking at the previous year's history.
Yeah.
It's really the jump was pretty high in what he's asking for. I think if there's something that happens, there's other money if a transfer needs to be made.
If I can interject, I think we also went back and a high amount was budgeted for the other years and we never used it. I think yeah,
I'm I'm looking now, but it's like it wasn't a big jump from 24 to 25. Actual was very low, but I think we asked for about the same amount those other two years and we never used it. I think I mean that's my memory.
So that's why I thought everybody decided I think decided to just bring it down.
It sounds right.
I say we leave it.
Okay. I'm I'm good with
Yeah, I don't have I don't have a problem with it. I just wanted to talk it out.
Yeah, I think adding another thousand. I mean really
ou know the point about contingency is also correct. We basically never touched that.
you know notwithstanding I believe we used 2,000 of it this year but
y so in case that we actually do need to go over that where would we pull that from?
Well if assuming there's no within the same general part of the budget like public works assuming there's nothing under expended that they can do a transfer.
Okay,
then we would probably pull from contingency.
Yeah.
Okay. So the only other number
I know in the past we've had we've had within a department
lines that are over and lines that are under.
Yeah.
And you're allowed to
move it around.
Move it around.
The only other one I looked at was the large increase on the meals for voter registration times. And she had a pretty good explanation. you know, is a large increase. But she had a pretty good explanation again because we have a Democratic and Republican caucus this year as well as the election and because of early voting and mailing ballots, there's a lot more people and a lot more hours being worked and that's why they increased the meals line there so much. That's the explanation I got. Anyways,
yeah, they definitely we've expanded the voting. where is that? I must have scrolled past. There it is. The assessor registers elections to the meals here.
Yeah, it's $1,000.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a high percentage, but
yeah, it went from $500 it looks like, right? Up to 3,000. So,
that's true. If you look at actuals, you're right.
Yeah. Well, we'll see how that goes. And
if it's too much, we can reduce it next year. But it's a thousand bucks.
I had something I wanted to look at, too.
Okay.
Go up to the top just so that we can This is all revenue. There we go.
I was concerned and actually
this is wrong now. But all right. This was my looking into this was based on an email that we received. I was a little concerned about the drivers/dispatch salary. I know we talked about this and the budgeted amount is 46,680.
Which line are we on?
We I'm sorry. 143100.
Do you Excel number that is or
Oh 36.
Oh, way up top. Okay. way up top. Hold up. I go I went past it. Wait, 36?
It's 36. It's I mean in the budget I'm looking at the Rob budget board budget.
Sweet.
Okay.
Oh, you know what? This is I'm sorry. This is preliminary salaries. The prelim
over here. You mean this one?
The prelim the preliminary salaries.
Got it. It's a tab. Yeah, it's another tab. It's the third tab.
Yep. So,
I don't have this written down, but the email reminded me that, I think we talked about the Miss Patcher. So, right now it's what's her name? The registar. Democratic re registar.
Linda. Linda. Yes. Linda Derek. I believe they talked about paying her for 10 hours a week still at $20 an hour to remain being the dispatcher. Is that true?
No. No. Kim is now doing that. Linda is no longer doing that.
Oh, Kim is doing Is Kim getting paid?
Yes.
She's getting paid to do it?
Yes.
Okay. So, she's getting paid 10 hours a week at $20 an hour to do that, right?
That's right.
Okay. So, that being the case, if you the drivers salaries, that is all we have here. This 46680, if you look at this, this is about a 3% increase. And that 3% is reflective of the four drivers only. So, another 10,400 would need to be added to that unless unless
I think that was in the community the senior community center information.
I looked Yeah, I looked for that there. You did? So,
I think we found that down there.
Yeah. Where was it?
Did we? So, if you scroll up in this tab,
sorry, in this tab. Yep.
And there's
what did I say?
yeah, not that one.
Should be 10,400.
Are we seeing that anywhere? I just don't want to leave anybody off.
That's all.
I do not I'm going to go back to the other tab for a second.
I don't see it either.
So I see the community center assistant. I see that. right there. She just dractor assistant conference center.
Yeah, there's no line here under the community center on the main chart for
drivers.
I thought she talked about it, but I can't remember where it is. So last year I went into last year's budget and f and looked under the employee tab and I could see the four employees and their salaries, you know, through all the the columns. And that's how I I was at least able to verify that, you know, the the 3% is correct. The 46680 is close to correct. Yeah, it's it's Yeah, it's close. and that tracks through from last year, but I don't see where the dispatcher is included in here. And I think it's supposed to be included on this line. The way it's written, drivers slashdispatch salary.
I think they were supposed to be clumped together. Oh, wait a minute. Here's another tab. Employee. Oh, no. I put that one in there. Never mind. So that it was a large jump though from from 33 to 45 from 24 25 to 25 26 it's not included in that I wasn't here then so I don't know but the actual spend
in 2425 was only 33 and the budget last year was 45
right I see that
so I don't I don't know
why the actuals would have been below 24 25. I know we have four,
but that's what I'm saying. Maybe maybe that 33 didn't include the dispatch and previous year's dispatch was somewhere else, but they added it in 25 26 to make that come up to 45. I don't know.
Liz, how much would that be the hours times the dollars? How much would that be a year
for what the dispatcher or for the
new the new line that you're saying?
10 grand.
10,400 be 10,ou 10,400. So it looks like it might have just been added to that line 143 100 maybe.
But if Liz say the problem the only problem with that because like it would make sense except Liz is saying she went and she verified the driver salaries from last year, right?
Yep. So the driver salaries last year were for 2425 were $44,000 and the 20 So
the budget the budget figure
the budgeted the budgeted for one two three four for four drivers it's possible that maybe they didn't drive as much because they're hourly. They drive as needed as the people need that that could be why it came in lower. But if you take actually I take that.
So
Oh wait, no I'm wrong. I'm wrong. The the proposed last year was 45,320,
which is Yep. It's in here.
45,320. And if you take that and you add 3% to that, you get the 46780.
I got I got an email from Joanne that said her
That's why I'm bringing it up. Joanne said that it was added to the community center assistant line. If you go back
added to the community center assistant
line is what Joanne saying.
Guys, can I speak real quick?
Why would we put it there?
Yeah,
there was two positions put in that line
and that's why something I think cuz look at the difference.
Yeah, because it's 32,000 versus 10,000. Now I want to look at my notes from when I talked to Tess.
Community center assistant.
I thought you guys raised the community center assistant because you wanted more hours for a real assistant, not someone time. I don't think that had to do with the driver.
That's what I thought too, Lisa.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's driver related
or dispatch related.
Yeah. Yeah. Guys, I'm gonna pop out, but if you read my email that I sent earlier, it gave you the figures that I heard them talk in the meeting. There's two position. Now, there's three people that are going to work at the community center,
right?
and that's that's why I brought this up.
Thank you. Right. And so, you have the director at her new contract that they signed. Then you have the person doing transportation 20 $20 an hour, 10 hours, and then they decided on $25 an hour times 15 hours for an assistant. I think if you add all of those up, you'll come to that 325.
That's and that would be 195. Okay. So 195 plus that would be 29.90 would be
right. I didn't put Yep. Thank you.
29,900. Okay. And so in the community center assistant, what's the total there?
2025.
It kind of makes sense.
Yeah.
So maybe Okay.
I guess that makes sense then.
Can we add that to the notes that that's the
Yes. Dispatcher, please?
Yep. Yes. Thank you, Joanne.
No problem. I was looking at the reverse. I was going down and saying
over to the side.
Yeah. To the right that it includes the
includes dispatcher. Dispatcher at 10,400 and AD at 195. Although it's
that it's still 2990 or something like that. It's a little
Yeah, but that's 290. That's
that's okay. Yeah. So I I at least on my chart, but Lisa's got the the one that matters.
Yeah, I I put it included includes dispatcher.
Okay, great.
I added that for you.
Although I don't remember that, but
he math works.
The math works.
Math works.
Yep.
Yeah.
Good catch.
There you go. Good catch all around.
Takes the village.
Okay. Rob, do we have any more word on on how we're going to handle the RAM? I sent it I sent you guys right when I got home. I saw an email that went around to the board chairs and people in in the towns and I forwarded it to you guys right at six o'clock.
It's a memo. It talks about how it's honestly I'm a little confused. First they did what the Hebrin board chair had asked them to do which is calculate interest. So the numbers a little different now. you know, I think we're getting 258 and change instead of 255. I'm still not 100% clear how they're hand planning to handle this. They say they're going to do an offset. They're going to take it off our levy, but how they're handling it literally for the purposes of the referendum is still a little unclear to me. They have a meeting Monday night they've put together at 6:30. I would suggest any of us who can make that try. When did you say it? Monday at 6:30.
It's the link is in there's a link to a Zoom.
Yep. Yep.
I would I I will try to make it, but I'll be late. I have my kids that night. I I don't get home till 6:45. So, you know, anybody who can make it and kind of ask my question, the question I was trying to get at is what number are they going to show when the people go to vote? I understand that we're going to get money back and I trust that that'll happen. What I want to know is because I don't think it should be netted out on the ballot.
I don't either.
No, either.
Valerie did just forward. I don't know if she sent it to everybody, but I just got the levy sheet from Valerie.
Yeah, I forwarded it too. Didn't you get Okay,
I got it too. Yeah. Shouldn't we still reduce it?
I think we should just reduce that line item by that amount
with X to it.
So what I would say guys is that on the chart that that we recalculate the the taxation level.
So do am I sharing this? Can you seeing it? Did I switch charts? Okay. So this here, obviously this number is now wrong, but and this this whole line needs to get changed because they changed their levy too. But see there's a blank there's an extra line under here. What I would do personally is I'd put it, you know, equals this minus, you know, and
I don't think you're sh I don't think you're sharing it, Rob.
All right. I think I'm sharing I know what I did. I know what I did. I want to fix the screen share. Give me a second. I know what I did wrong. I shared a document instead of a screen. Okay, so this this document which I've you know I've been playing around with this so don't take this this document as gospel at all. Do you see it? This is where we calculate you know tax increase. This number I haven't put the RAM offset in. This is why it's still showing a 9.35 you know and this number here you know this is the levy number that used to be but they've adjusted it again. But what I was saying is I want to show their true number which isn't this anymore. It's like 41, etc., etc. And then I want to take
actually it's more than that
because you're forgetting you got to add that capital in there. So it's really 4258178.
So remember you you got to add the 63,000 capital that they added.
That's what you added to come to that 42.
So you're talking about if I'm looking at this right Yeah. 4,194.
Oh yeah. Yeah. So it's but you got
you have to add the 63 250.
Yeah.
Which I believe 584 928. So you're right. You're correct. Of course you are.
no.
So this one is actually 4258178. And then
Yeah.
Okay. And then what I would do is say, you know, equals this minus where's the memo? 2588761587615,
right? And we tax based off this number here. So, this number, you know, I'd have to I'd have to make sure this propagates down. It doesn't right now. This just looks back up here.
Wait, I'm confused. I'm confused. You just can you go back there? Why are we prop taxing at 399? You just town.
So, this here this here is the I just thought I put in the the full RAM levy is this 4,258,178, right?
That's our new the new levy that they just told us. Okay.
Yeah. If you look at the this this is the chart they just sent to round.
Okay.
I don't know if you guys can see this very well here. Let me
Yep. That's okay. I can
Okay. So, if you look at Andover proposed 2627, you've got this number here,
but there's also the capital number here.
You tally that and that.
I don't like I don't like that they never tally it.
Well, the thing is too is that's only like $5,000. They changed their tuition amount also. If you look up top, their tuition amount changed. So, I guess I don't understand what $5,000 has to do with a $250,000 change.
No, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about the offset that we're getting back down here.
Yeah.
So, I'm saying all right, if this is the levy, this plus this.
Yeah,
that's the levy. Okay. So back to the right trade. So this number here
is now the letby. This is the two added up, right? Two 4258178.
You agree?
Yes. Yeah. It just doesn't have anything to do with this new thing that they found though because it's not very much money.
It's like $5,000. It's not anything to do with this problem that they have, is it? Because that's just a change of $5,000,
right? That's a separate that's a separate thing. They adjusted the levy.
Okay. So, they're still changing their
There's two things going on here. They adjusted their levy slightly.
Okay.
And they adjusted our offset slightly to calculate some interest payments. So, this number here is what I net out the, you know, their levy number and then the money we're getting back. I don't care how we do it and how we display it per se if people want to do it differently. My point is it's this number here. This 399930185 is the net between the levy that they want from us this year and the money they owe us.
Oh, I see. Okay. The question is that's the net, right?
That's the net. I don't want this on the ballot. I want this on the ballot.
Right. But this is the number we should tax off of.
That's what I'm saying. the we should tax on the 4,258.
I just I don't think so. No, I think we should account for the the offset figure coming in.
What would you do?
Well, just you know
I think we should show I think we should show the true cost to the town. True cost.
Yeah.
I want this in the budget for sure. This here the the true cost number,
right? Right? Because that's going to calculate down and it's going to tell us our true
total by taxation,
right?
I mean, I'm not an accountant, so I kind Why do I keep wanting to call you, Lynn? I think Lisa should chime in. I mean, do we
take that money in?
I'm just kind of surprised that they're still making changes, this $5,000 change and the change to listen after you've already brought this to a hearing. I I I'm just really surprised at that. the offset thing I understand is something they just found, but
how many more meetings are they going to have changing their figure before you bring it to town meeting?
It's going down. I'm not going to complain too much, but
Well, you don't have to master sheet that you're trying to keep track of,
right? And you're not get I'm not getting these emails. Rob just sent it to me. So,
Oh, geez. boy, you're you're getting kind of complicated, too, because don't forget you have the two the two mill rates, too, because of the vehicle and the other. If you get that high, I'm
Yeah, I understand.
We should still address that tonight.
Oh, yeah.
If if we if we would tax on the lower amount, then
would we reach the other I thought that too, Heather. I'm like, well, maybe if you
Right. you wouldn't reach the two separate but I don't know
right that's
and then but then does that just cause a problem next year because then it looks like we have a huge increase when it when there's no offset
it's going to look a bigger increase next year but the point is what we're be taxed on this year is the new lower amount it might get us closer to that level where we don't have the two separate bill rates for autos and houses and then maybe we can look again at either capital expenditures or the general money that having a general budget, the extra money, get them get it down to a level where we can go to the town with one mill rate is I think what our goal should be, not two separate mill rates. So between the the reduced levy and monies that we can take from either capital and overor our general money
that we have the extra money in, we should be able to get us to that level. I guess I would want to know hear more about how they're going to do this. Are they going to send us this offset in one year? Because I wouldn't I wouldn't think we'd be able to take the whole amount off if it's going to be a gradual thing that they're going to return to us. That's just my thought.
That's a good point, Lisa.
You know, it's like if it we know we're going to get that, but I don't think we can take it off of the tax rate this year for all of it if we're not going to get it. We're going to get it in five years. 15.
They owe it to us right now. They owe us the money right now. I thought the levy was going to be lowered by that much money.
Yeah, they say they're doing offset. let me look at the
I interject. Yes,
I know I'm not on the board.
you are on the board of of
I'm on the RAM board. Yeah.
The plan the plan as I understood it was that it would just reduce this year's levy.
That's what I would think.
Okay. Simplify the whole thing was going to reduce the the current year's levy to the towns.
That makes the most sense.
I'm quite sure that was the plan.
Why?
Go ahead.
I don't see how it how it helps because then next year our RAM levy is going to look so much higher.
Well, I would I would want to still display their levy as the true number.
We have to show
and have the offset as a separate thing.
Yeah. So it won't look like
that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to mask what
I think we're on the same page there.
I just don't think we should tax based on the higher number without offset. I I think we should display it though. Like here's what it would be. We're getting this oneshot repayment. It gives us a break, but it's a oneshot deal.
And then next year we it shows here's what this year's levy was.
This is the true levy. Yeah.
Right. So, I would like I want like a separate line that says offset or something.
Exactly. We should put that in.
Good idea.
By the way, guys, to get down by by really quick and dirty math here on the spreadsheet, to get down to the unified mill rate, we got to find like $560,000
in addition to the 255, 258,
something like that.
No, sorry. So, hang on.
That's right. I didn't incorporate that. So my point is we should be able to
ne mill rate.
If I'm doing the math right, it's 300 we'd need to find
to get down to a unified mil rate. I mean honestly, all right, that that can be a goal. I don't have a problem with that. I don't know if that's the end all be all, but that's the number because if this is and I want to verify this number is even right anymore. Total be raised by taxes because we made some changes and I'm not sure they propagated over to this chart. This chart is a separate chart. So I'm not 100% confident in this number. So this is all a little fuzzy math. Okay. But if you take the total by taxation, you take sorry, you take the not the total raise by taxation, sorry, the total grand list and you apply the mill rate, the top mill rate you can do before splitting it, you get this much in revenue, 10,379,96791, that would be your target for taxation if you wanted to keep one mill rate. If I again I'm applying the mill rate to to the the total grand list number that I have in here assuming this is correct which I believe it is came this came from Lisa
who I haven't had a chance to update yet so just so you're
okay okay I didn't know if that but it's grand list I don't know that it would change at this point right
grand list won't change your correct list won't change
the rest of it yeah I mean I don't trust I don't trust my two raised to be raised by taxes number because I don't trust the total expenditure number anymore because we've been changing stuff on the other chart and it does not feed this chart. So, this this number has to be re checked.
Rob, do you want do you want to add that row now so you don't forget?
Yeah, just add the row in there.
Make a quick note of it now because
Yeah,
because I do agree with Liz that it would like a it would offset what we're seeing next year and make it look like a much bigger increase. So, we just want
Yeah, and Liz and I were talking about this earlier. I completely agree. I absolutely agree. I do not want to We can call it something like that.
Yeah, that's good.
And
let's have a record of what you did.
Ram Mnet 2026 27. Sorry, I'm desperately trying to get mine to come up and I'm not having any luck getting it to come up.
Of course not. Of course.
Of course not.
but just conceptually, I would like it to look like something like this, right?
So, everybody can see that topline number. That's their real number. That's the number that's really costing the town to make their budget work. And then this, everybody has to understand is a oneshot deal to fix the mistake. And then why is that? This is just Yeah. Currency. No.
Why isn't this coming up?
There we go.
Okay. So that way it's clearer. We can display it properly. But you know, I think the amount to be raised by taxation and again this is still we got to double check this that gets you to that's how we get to roughly 6.8 eight, the number we were talking about last night to for taxation this year, you know, and then yes, you do have the issue of next year this goes away. But as I read, you know, my read of the email is and again you guys have it now too, but they're having this meeting. We can go ask questions. So Scott, if you're still there, can I ask you another quick question? Yes. And you can ask a question now that I'm mute.
The the the other thing we were talking about the very very small change to the levy itself.
5,000.
What was that about?
I that I don't know. I that gets sent to all the chairs and stuff, but didn't make it to us. probably only the chair and one other board member actually know the details of that.
I can see if I can find out as you guys are talking.
Wouldn't you have to vote on it to to phone?
Probably. We got a meeting on Monday though. So
Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's provisional.
Okay.
Yeah. But but you know if if we found you know that you know that much money we would there's almost no question the board would vote on it would accept it.
No I'm not even talking about the offset. I'm talking about the the slight difference in the proposed levies up top
because it was 4199204 and now
it's about $5,000. 5,000 bucks. It's not a lot,
right?
Tuition is different also. Tuition was 339765
and now it's 355 399.
So that's different.
Yeah, tuition might have changed. I I think I know how tuition changes because they got that there is an extra student coming in that what wasn't planned and they had kind of accepted last minute for for next year
and those are they're charged 15,000 ahead, right?
Yeah. So, so you know from Colombia student
hat lowers our percentage
that that lowers the the total number and our our fact but but that shouldn't count for 5,000 because we're not 15.
Yeah. So I'm not quite sure of of all that. But part of I think part of what happened with the levy is that you know the the money that's in that account is in an interestbearing
Yes.
Yeah.
account. That was why this is
right
because I know the board of finance chair in Hebrin asked that question very pointedly. What about interest?
Yeah. The funny thing about interest though of course is you know the towns are paying it. If we give it back to the towns the towns are still you know
Yeah.
The only source of you know of income really for this is come is the town. So, it's a funny thing.
It was sitting in an account. I don't know what account earns for interest. You know, I know if it was in our general fund, it'd be in the stiff account. So,
yeah, we we have a stiff account, too. And I don't know exactly which funds are in the stiff account. You know, what's in there, but I'm guessing that's that's why we have interest is is going through that, you know, but but the money you make in the stiff account isn't, you know,
it's better than it's better than it was. Better than it was. Yeah, exactly. It's not nothing. It's certainly better than nothing, but it's it's not going to make or break anything,
right?
But yeah, I actually 5,000 I don't know. And tuition increase would would help reduce our our levy by a little bit, but not not by that much for one student. Unless there were two. There were two. That would be about right. I knew about one. Maybe then maybe there's been a second one.
Okay. Okay.
So again, it's got this number here. These have to be carried over to the the main budget, right?
That's what I was just going to say. So am I changing Ram's budget even outside of the offset? Well, I would change the levy figure.
We We Well, we have to show it in the in the main budget so that we come up with the right
Well, I I see your point about maybe not changing it until Tuesday.
Yeah.
Change it or Wednesday when we have our next meeting,
right? Right. If they vote Monday night to to agree with this spreadsheet, then we could have Lisa update the charts with that figure, that whopping, you know, $5,000 difference to get the numbers right.
The whole thing, the whole adjustment, the 255.
Oh, yeah. The adjustment as well, but Oh, sorry. I say there's two different things. Yeah.
On the main budget sheet, we have to show this new RAM number.
Yeah. So, here's the thing, Lisa. Where would you do? I mean, I'm thinking it goes under revenue or something.
No, you sure what the new RAM budget is?
Well, the new RAM budget 5,000 if Do you want to keep the budget the offset separate?
The offset's a different thing. I want that on a separate line is what I'm saying.
If anything,
I don't know if I'd put it up in revenue, but would you put it down here before a capital budget on the bottom where it says where it says expenditures on the very bottom? Keep going down. Yeah. See where it says municipal RAM AES? Insert a line number 491. Make that an offset line and move everything down one line.
Oops.
Something like Yeah, something like that. I mean, it's not up above, but it's in your end net. Like, do Yeah,
has to be a negative obviously,
right?
Yay. I'll get to that. I have to get the what number again because I can't remember.
There it is.
But won't that mask the true?
Well, the whole reason I'm trying to do it on a separate line is to avoid doing that.
That's why we're showing the two lines. We're adding that new line so we show the true number up above. I guess my question is but then it's gonna net
ram offset one time one time offset
because otherwise people might think it's an annual discount. I don't know.
Yeah. And the date
doesn't doesn't that change the to the grand total expenditure line though? So it's going to
it does and that's why I don't necessarily want it there. So, do you want it is that why you want it in the revenue line as
Yeah. I mean, don't you think it's revenue?
Am I crazy for thinking it's revenue?
No, of course. I don't I'm not used to the way Andover tracks revenue.
if we took if we took money back from the 2% I mean not 2% surplus money from education in your mind, where would you reflect that, Lisa? in the general budget, right?
That would be an adjust that would be an adjustment after the audit is as far as because that that won't be determined till after the audit. So that's kind of like a budget adjustment after the fact is the only way I've seen it with a surplus so that your starting balance for the next year is less. So it didn't really it doesn't really affect the year you're in because you don't know it until after you've been audited. So then we it would affect our next year's number and our next year's number is going to look like
in an audit. Yes.
In an audit, but not here, Liz.
Okay. In an audit, yes. Yeah.
But not necessarily in the budget.
Correct.
So can we
can you just put it under the shortage overage or something? Add it in there and then have another one.
Okay. People, I just looked it up for AI. Gotta love AI. It says errors and omissions in a town budget are typically managed through a specific overlay account in parentheses or overlay reserve or a general contingency reserve fund. These accounts are designated for extraordinary unforeseen expenses or inaccuracies in the tax levy such as tax abatements, exceptions or errors in tax billing. So would that fall
into that category? I'm I'm thinking no.
No, I don't think that fits.
I mean, it's an idea, but it's kind of like if like what happened in my previous job, Rob is gonna die. The board of finance GR actually made a $100,000 mistake in the capital and I found it and it was after it was voted on because it was not my worksheet and he thought he he came in with his home equity book and thought he was going to have to come up with $100,000. Somehow the first selectment at the time said, "Well, we'll do this, this, and this from these other funds and we'll be okay. We'll be fine." That's the kind of mistake that I'm thinking would apply to what you're talking about.
Okay?
Because it's something that's already been voted on and and then find out that, you know, there was an error in doing the spreadsheet.
I don't know if you'd apply this to it or not. I'm not saying you can't.
what if I did it this way? You have to account for it,
right?
Yeah.
What if I did it this way under there's a line for revenue for Ramy? Yes. What if we put a line here so it goes into revenue? I know it's not maybe strictly speaking revenue. I understand why you could have a philosophical thought of, well, it's not really revenue. They're paying us back for a mistake. But from the standpoint of getting things netted out so that we know hat the call what you know what we're dealing with. I don't know maybe this is the way to do it. I mean whichever way we do it wherever we put it I think it's its own special line that it's because it's a oneshot thing. own special line and at some point it just has to be taken off the
so
total taxation
if we're look when we're doing this next year will the 2000 will the 2026 27 budget request say like for expenditures 13.6 or should 13
say 13.688. Yeah, it should be this one up here, right?
Because that's the true number. That's the number,
right? So you It'll still be there. We'll still know
because we we will still be able to plan based on the real number, right?
That's why I don't want to screw with this number.
Yeah, I want that number.
We don't actually
And we don't actually plan based on the budgeted amount anyway. We based we plan based on the actual amount,
right?
Sure. I I like to know both, but you're correct.
Good to look at the actuals.
Could it be another line? Like you have a grand total expenditures, grand total revenue, and then a one time line RAM offset. Yeah, you could put it all by it onesies.
It's just something one off.
That would be fine. And I mean, as long as we all agree on it and Lisa is comfortable with it,
then I'm okay with that.
I I don't
have a real strong attachment. As long as it's own it's its own thing. So that
I kind of like that actually. I like that separate from the revenue. Yeah. Make it its own little
line section down below because then you're really separating it and saying this is once. I know what I did wrong there.
Again, as long as it stays under the RAM heading, that's all that really matters. So, we know where it came from,
right?
And it shows. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's wrong, sir.
Z control Z.
There we go. And then this
No, that's wrong. I did that the wrong way. S doesn't like it. But it's throwing a little error bar at me, but I think that's actually right.
Yeah, I think that's great. So this these are so these remain tred up and then this is its own little thing.
I don't know I don't know how I feel about exactly how this is characterized but
should we do an adjusted grand total revenue after that time after that onetime offset?
Yeah,
that's actually a really good idea.
Yeah.
Then we see the actual amount
and you don't get all those negatives,
right? 876. That's right. Right. 87615. Whatever. Okay. Oh, it is. It is there. It's just these numbers are
doesn't have
currency. It doesn't show. Okay. I was going to say it doesn't show the pennies on
you got to just around it.
I was just being a pain. I was just being a pain. That's probably not worth doing.
It's not worth doing.
Yeah.
You have to go through the whole line.
Yeah. So that is kind of yeah I do think that's how we want to how we want to do it. And then on the other chart which again I wish this was part of the same chart. This used to all be fed in the total by taxation figure. You know you'd have instead of being F11, where's F11 up here? It's just pulling from this. Yeah, that's not quite right. It's equals F11 minus that. yeah. Now, this is wrong because it doesn't need to be there. That's duplicating. So that's how you get to 6.76. And again, provisional because I got to double check these numbers up here, but the total raised by taxation figure is just taking that into account because
it's up here. Shows you and it drops the total there. That's make. did I hear somebody raise their hand? I don't see anything. All right. okay. So, that I think we're on the same page of how to handle the offset provided we don't get different information Monday night. Oops. It's different chart. I have too many charts up, guys. Too many.
Me, too.
Too many charts. All right. back to the town budget for a bit. where were we? We had, let's go back up here. It's all revenue charges for services. Okay, that's all the revenue lines. So, I know we've talked about them in prior meetings, but you know,
thought those were thought those were all settled.
Yeah, I think I think kind of asked and answered.
what about the project manager? Does
that is for a particular
someone
a road project or
a road project in the bridge or
I forget exactly what they said, but it is for a specific project that they plan on using this year. Like in past years, he's budgeted for it and he has never used it.
He didn't use it. That's why I was wondering, are we going to use it this year? I know the bridge has started. I thought it was
Bola. They were going to work on that.
There's work on Bola. There's work on Long Hill. But what I'm saying is I don't think they even though we budgeted for it the last couple years, we never used it.
We finished Bunker Hill without using it. Right.
But I think it's a different project altogether. I don't think it has to do with the roads. I remember them talking about it and I remember them saying her name
for I mean I don't have the minutes
in front of me to
but I know they talked
I would be I would be hesitant to touch that because I remember specifically talking about that because I was always like yeah let's get rid of it but then I felt that they very clearly explained what it was for and who it was going to
was they were also concerned because you're going to have a new town administrator and they thought this would be helpful for this person to try and handle it instead of the new person who was very unfamiliar.
Yeah. Was there discussion about that? Maybe
I remember talking that and saying that myself. I just wasn't okay.
Okay.
That's all.
Okay. All right. Does does anybody else have any brilliant ideas about where you want to go next here? Because I'm not sure.
the AHM we should kind of figure because we're doing four and a half%. We need to conclude that because I don't think you you adjusted the budget on that.
I thought I did. Hold on. Okay.
You had sent an email with a figure in it.
Yes. Wasn't this the figure?
4901. You did do it.
Yeah, I was going to say I sent out something that they gave to us. Unless they had changed it.
Nope. No, it's at 4 and a half%. So, that's what the 4901.
So, is this the number you have, Lisa?
I was just looking for their print out. Hold on. That I had that I had sent everybody. Just
I want to make sure. Did I send Louise's email to you? I usually keep trying to every time I get something that suggest there's been a change.
Yep.
Did I send All right, let's go back and find Louis's email. Nope, that's not it. Oh, no, it is.
Yeah,
that was it was the chain.
All right, so that's the most recent one. Here it is. All right, hold on. Let me see. I've got it.
This is the email here. It's March 30th.
Oh, yes. Hold on. And
I don't see you on the chain, so it's just a question whether I forwarded this to you. because I have from Let's see. You know what? I don't have I have the letter that everybody got to that when they're going to have their meeting. All right.
And then I have youth and
the Youth Services Bureau. So,
yeah. okay. Well, I got to send you Louisa's email then because
Well, how much how
it's one? All right. So, here's the here's the correct number. Are you ready?
Wait a minute. You're Are you talking AHM Youth Services?
Yes.
Okay. Yeah. So, this does have it in here. 2627 increase. and over 112 389.
That's the old one. So, they changed a little bit.
Oh, I didn't get
And I I I obviously didn't get you the email. I've been trying to get you everything I get in.
it's 111854.
So, it went down.
Yeah, a little bit.
Okay. And when was that dated?
March 30th.
Okay.
Or at least Hang on a minute here.
March 30th.
That's correct.
I believe it was March 30th.
Yes. Okay. I we went back and forth a couple times that day and it gets
it's an increase of $4,91
from last year, right? It's just a reduction from the original increase request,
right?
Yeah.
All right. So, that changes our total, just tiny tiny bit. But that's that's the sort of thing what would have possibly driven us nuts.
Yeah. Monday, March 30th. That's right.
And we are all okay with that. We're going to keep it 4.5. We're not going to discuss that anymore. I just want to make sure I I could
Oh, I see why I couldn't find the original email. Louis Louise had sent it to my personal email and I had to forward it to myself. That's why.
Yep. Sorry about that.
Okay, that was driving me bonkers. I'm just going to forward this to you. so you have it, Lisa.
Thank you. Thank you.
So, you could document it if you have to.
Yes. Yeah.
And we're okay with that. Is that correct?
Yes. Okay, perfect.
Do we need to do a formal vote for that?
No, I was the representative.
I don't think so. It's just the actual amount that's being
Okay.
to us.
Yep.
I mean, I don't care if we want to formalize it, but I I think
it's fine.
I think it's okay.
It's not us up or it's not us changing it. It's the actual amount that we're being charged. So yeah, I don't think we vote on it.
Yeah, it's more of a charge than a Yeah.
You take it or you don't
I just want to have to have another board of finance meeting in the next day. So, do we want to look at any other expenditures to try and get this budget down, Rob, or where where are we all at? Where's everybody feeling right now? This is what we go to the town with. Are we going to try and find some revenue from the general fund or cut any other things or we just all this is what we're going to town with? Well, I think we should talk about Andover Elementary School and the recommendation that we made. I I think that we should have a conversation about that.
Okay.
We we did vote we voted on the 7.5. I thought that was really fair. We worked hard to make that recommendation. I think it's it's fair for the community as well. I know it's not easy. but everybody is, you know, struggling with debt, bills, increases. So, I would like for us to remain at that 7.5%.
Well, again, that was a recommendation though, Kim. We sent them a recommendation actually cut the line because
at the beginning Rob said that we were going to proceed with
e understanding the way we've always gone about it and we had the dueling opinions there going on so that we were going to send the recommendation and my thoughts on that Kim were a lot of people are going to be concerned about that number. We're going to get to the I mean we could address it right. I don't think we have the the legal authority, but when we're going to get to the public meeting on Thursday next week, people can make recommendations and we can have a vote at that meeting and get the the voice of the people right then and there. Actually, at the last meeting, Bill, we had I had asked that question
if we could make a motion to reduce it, and we were told that after the hearing, we could do it as a motion
from the board
after the hearing by
after the
by attorney O'Brien.
Yes.
The town meeting you're talking about? No, the hearing what you just
Dennis O'Brien's position is and has been that we could theoretically do it now. I mean, and I've I've voiced what I thought about it. I I don't know what else to say.
I have my take on it. I think it I think it should go before the town. it does go to referendum and then the the town's folk get their say at that point and if it comes back to us then then we cut it. That's my take. I understand different people have different take. That's my understanding of how it should work. It's what we did last year. That's how I would do it.
I'm not going to tell anybody what they, you know, can motion or not motion. But
let me ask a question. Can Kim, according to O'Brien's opinion, can someone at the town meeting make a recommendation and can it be can it be changed at the town meeting or not? Or does it have to go to the referendum get bifocated and then comes back to the board of finance and we can reduce it at that point or can it can someone make a motion at the town meeting?
Yes.
To lower it?
Yes. And it has that's been done in the past. several times.
So my my suggestion would be that we let the people speak and go with the people at the town meeting and that way there we're not going against this lawyer against that lawyer. There's these dueling opinions. It's it's legal beagle all the way down the line. The people get to speak and that's kind of where it gets left. That's what I would think. But
yeah, I mean
ow my opinion would be to follow what our town attorney had said and
I was just gonna say that too.
Yeah. And do the motion now at this point and have the town agree or not agree at that point at the the meeting next week.
Agree.
You can't because they can't increase at the town meeting. They can only
That's correct. Town meeting.
They can only decrease at a town meeting. I don't think it's
but they can vote it down.
Well, I think actually the charter change provision, the charter change provision, they can talk about it, but it's going to go to referendum one way or the other, I think, is actually the way it works.
That's right. We voted down, then we go back to the drawing board.
Liz, did you want to say something?
Yeah, I I wanted to I I agree. We made the recommendation. I I think it was more fair than my initial recommendation. and I think we have a town attorney and the town attorney represents us and I respect the opinion of the town attorney that respects us. And he specifically spoke to 802F
,
which which was not considered in his prior opinion. And in this opinion, it states the after the hearing, the board of finance may review the budget requests with the head of each department, agency, and commission, including the including the local board of education. Subsequent to such hearing and review, the board of finance shall prepare a final budget that incorporates any recommended changes. and we made the recommendation. respect what he says. He's he's our town attorney. He represents us. And the other thing I'll say is from a historical just a little historical information for anybody who's hasn't been on I mean there's compelling arguments to increase the budget. I've heard them and I've heard the compelling arguments, but going back to the 2023 2024 year end budget, there was a surplus of 11.76%. a good chunk of that was put aside for the bathroom project. So AES hasn't lost anything by having by rights we could have taken that money and put it back into the general fund but we didn't. We know they have expenditures coming up. We know they have a big project coming up. So the board voted to put to earmark that that money. so that was a significant surplus. If you prepare a budget like like we're doing with Lisa based on actuals with previous you know looking at actuals from previous budgets you would look and you would see where okay
well we didn't need so much here we needed more here whatever you kind of move forward that way. and the other point I'll make is even last year's budget, last year's budget, there was only a 3.2% surplus. However, prior to the end of the year, they had $249,000 in in underbudgeted areas where they were able to transfer to. underbudgeted areas and 126,000 of that was from salaries and two salaries and a oh I forget what the other one was off the top of my head. a teacher salary a custodial custodial salary and nurses salary I think. So my concern is when we're when we're creating a budget based on what was just budgeted last year, you're not really taking into account the actuals. So because of that, I would agree that I would agree with with going with the recommended the amount that we had recommended to them. That's my That's how I feel.
Then I'm just going to say I think we should put it to the people of the town, but Rob, I think, you know, you either call for a motion.
I mean, my take here is I I don't feel like I'm repeat myself. So, you know, if somebody wants to make a motion, we'll entertain that motion. Make a motion that we move the school budget forward to the town budget meeting at the 7.5 that we had agreed on.
That was Louise second.
Yeah,
Louise second. Liz motions. Louise seconds. hang on one second here. So, we've we've talked about do we have any, you know,
further commentary that people would like to make before we go ahead and take a vote on this because I mean I've you know what my position is bills to say. Heather, I don't know if you want to say anything or if we just want to vote. I guess I guess I would I guess I would say I agree with Liz on some things that the budget does seem high and we should look at their actual but the dueling lawyer situation concerns me. That's just opinions of two people and we don't actually know which one is correct unless it went to like court or something. I think so I don't know. I just wanted to say that
that
's my concern as well.
Yeah. because I mean conceptually I honestly don't if if it anyway I I've already I've already said it over and over so I'm not going to do it again. so why don't we go ahead and vote on this. I'm just going to go around by who's on the screen. So Bill, you're up first.
I'm up next. No. Heather. I'm gonna go no.
Liz,
yes.
Kim,
yes.
Louise,
yes.
Yes. And we didn't have Nick, so it's a 33. Motion fails. 3-3. It's a tie.
We could always address it again if we needed to next Wednesday. Would
Yes. have Nick and that would give one more chance for everybody to be heard at least before we go to the referendum or to the but the meeting then again the people who have the chance to speak at the meeting too. So as far as Liz and Kimberly and Louise I don't think you know
hat you're saying you know I don't think it's dead in the water is what I'm trying to say. We could address it again with Nick and we can address it at the town meeting. I don't think it's, you know,
I just Yeah, I just feel that I think at the town meeting it's it's going to it's so high that people it's not going to it's not going to pass and I'm just trying
it will pass at the town meeting. It'll pass at the town.
Well, the thing is the thing is the way the charter revision works is, you know, people get get to have their say at the town meeting, but I think it goes to referendum after town meeting regardless. Yeah.
Used to be town meeting could reject it, kick it back to us. It's now they can motion they can make a motion like Liz's motion tonight, right? That could be made at town meeting.
Yeah.
If it passes and if it passes that's in,
right?
Goes to goes to
and then it goes to referendum at 7.5 for instance. Like that would happen.
Yeah.
If you had the votes. So, and then it goes to a referendum and then I mean I I don't I'm not going to make any grand predictions, but I'm not I would be completely unsurprised if it then came back to us. Which is exactly what happened last year.
Yeah.
Exactly.
That's why I don't think it's a dead issue. That's why I think it's fair.
Yeah.
It's not a dead issue.
I figured that Yeah. I figured that it would save the town so much more money by doing something now because it most likely the referendum is going to come back failed and then we'll have to pay all that extra money to redo it because eventually I think we're going to have to redo something
every time we go back to to the drawing board. Yes. It costs money in the the election people.
Yeah. That's why I figured now is a good time to do something which is fair. That's that was my take on it.
Understood.
Okay.
you know the other thing that we if it does come back to us that I think we would have to revisit is fund balance. We made a choice and I I I happen to agree with it that we're going to take this forward. We're not going to take from fund balance and make it look prettier to get it to try to get it through. Last year, however, but by the end, we did use fund balance. We put $190,000 in fund balance toward the budget last year. So, if it comes back and we're we're trying to get a budget passed, that's another place we could look. We talked about it before, you know, I'm not making a motion or anything like that because we there was, I think, broad sentiment on the board that we didn't want to go there right now and I'm fine with that.
Rob, I have a question. based on what we're supposed to be presenting, what would the mill rate be?
based on what we have now?
Yes.
With the RAM, I'm
pretty sure it's what Oh, yeah. I have to redo the the calculation a little bit. it's still it's it's a it would be a split bill rate. It would be a split mill rate. let's see.
I'm sorry, but did you did you all decide that So, you're deciding the RAM the little $5,000 change we're were putting in there, correct? Up top in that figure. The bottom is where we're going to do the offset, but in the top we're gonna put their new figure in there.
That's where it has to go. That's the number we're being charged this year. Has nothing to do with the mistake.
Yeah, I know. It just changed. That's all from what was in the mail.
That's the number that has to go in the top.
So, if I've got my numbers right, and I would still want to have Lisa double check this one. She has time based on the changes we talked about, little little tweaks here or there. They're the RAM thing. the combined mill rate would be 33.4 which is above the cap. So you then disagregate let's see do I have this formula propagating? I think I do. So if I'm right 33.52 hold on would be the where did where I want to look at what I had in my presentation. So it shouldn't match that now it should be off. 33.53 versus 33.52. That sounds about right. so you would have a 32.46 for auto and a 33.52 for for real estate property if I'm if I've got the spreadsheet working properly and I've done my math right.
So what's the mill rate increase?
So the mill rate last year on this chart was 31.59. The mill rate increase which again I mean in and of itself it doesn't really mean much of anything. So, it's 5.72% by mills, but that's before you split it off. So, it gets a little complicated with that. But the the mill rate last year was 31.59. So, you're going up a little under two mills. and then you're triggering that split.
So, what are we going to explain to the public? What are we what are we going to because they're people going to ask what's the mill rate based on that?
Right. Well, I mean, I had that's one thing I had broken down in the presentation. I mean, we can make sure that we we're comfortable with that. It's clear enough.
Yeah.
But I did have that in there
of an explanation that look, the legislature capped
the auto miller at this. So, what you have to do is you have to look at the grand list. You have to take the total motor vehicle. You have to multiply it by that cap. Then take the total degrees taxation number, subtract the capp auto number, and then the the rest is what you have to raise via your house taxes, personal property, real estate. And so you calculate the mill rate on that, and you get your second mill rate, which is why in the presentation there's two there were two mill.
I honestly think that's the easy part.
Yeah. Hey, Rob.
Yeah. You know what I what I would like to do is I'd like to add another slide.
Okay.
and you and I could maybe work on it together.
Sure.
I'd like to take I'd like to take like a couple average houses like if your house was worth 400,000, if your house was worth 300 or 200 and do the calculations so people can see what this is going to translate to.
Yeah, I remember doing that a little while back. It wasn't this was before the whole split mill rate thing was pointed out to me, but I had done it for my own practice. So, I knew, you know, I was like, h this will cost me about 700 bucks. That was back before the Ram offset. It was back before the split. Of course, I have an old cheap car, so it'll affect me a little differently.
yeah,
you know, yes, I don't have any problem with doing that. I think in the past, Mark, I don't think he I don't know if he did it last year, but it was in there years ago. I remember we used to have a if your house is valued at 200,000 for tax purposes, this is what the mill rate would do.
Yeah. Okay. So, we can
I feel like that's like the icing on the cake. Once we have we're like sure about our numbers
again and again once I'm I feel like Lisa's had some time to verify.
Yeah. Next year.
Okay. Well,
yes, I do want to verify it. There's a lot of things going on here. There's a lot of things going on.
I I completely understand that. We got to find out what comes out of Monday night's meeting.
The spreadsheet.
We got to find out what happens at the RAM meeting Monday night.
Yes.
Right.
and go from there and and get our spreadsheets in a in a row and make sure we're like, "Okay, everybody." I mean, as Liz and I talked about before this meeting, she likes to go through spreadsheets and make sure they're right, which is a good talent to have. a good a good hobby right now. So, we need to do that.
So, Mark, I mean, Mark, Rob, I just want to agree with Liz. It does put things in real numbers for homeowners that are voting.
Yeah.
Puts things in in context. You can talk about mills. It don't really tell you anything. A mill doesn't tell you anything. You have an evaluation next year.
No, because it's Yeah, it only matters if you know the valuation.
Point is that what Liz is proposing lets people see in real dollars how it affects them. So, I think that's a good chart to work on.
I I a real fair look at what's going to happen, whatever they're voting on, it gives them a fair look at it. So, it's a good chart.
Oh, I I I really do agree with that. That's completely understandable. you know, I had gone in to remind myself of what my taxes even were. in fact, they're they're the quarterlys are due this month. I got to go in there and write a check. So, you know, I I happened to know what mine were and I was I was when we were had an earlier iteration of this budget where we were looking at that 9%, you know, 9.6% increase. I did quick math, not not the math we need to do to make that slide actually work. and I remember it being about 700 bucks
on the year,
but that was just for me.
Yep. So, I I was kind of hoping we could like finish up all the nitty-gritty, all the numbers and all the stuff tonight. I was hoping we wouldn't have to have our meeting next Wednesday. Do you think that
's possible?
The only hesitation I now have, Liz, is
the RAM Monday night thing,
could we make a
do we make it a short
So if the numbers don't change, if they're just giving us information and the numbers at RAM don't change, do we really need to meet again? And if the numbers do change again, do we really need to meet again? We just
change the numbers in the Right. We just change the numbers. I'm trying to remember now. Don't we have 48 hours to cancel? Like, can we cancel if we wait till that meeting's over? Are we out of time to cancel it?
I'm I mean, that's Wednesday. I don't know.
The other option is we could all log in and say meeting,
right?
Well, again, we can make it a short meeting, right? We don't, you know,
that's true.
We could just make it a short meeting and say we all agree. We we don't we're not necessarily signing on for two hours. If we're comfortable that we've done everything we can do at this point and you know we looked at we went line by line. We've looked at capital unless we want to revisit capital now which I'm happy to do if people want to do it. I don't know what I would do there to find money.
Think I think we've been pretty
tough with the town. I I happen to agree the town is I mean the only flip side you know the town is up the the the operating budget's up six the capital's down three you know and it nets out well whatever it was it was like that 4% number so it's not nothing but at the same time I do think we've at least asked and answered
a lot of the questions we went through the lines that we highlighted and and at least discussed it and did what we could with it
could be one more opportunity for for the whole board to look at the presentation together and just
I mean it could be a very short meeting you know just to get every one last look at the presentation and
my goal is to work with Liz between now and that meeting get the two of us happy with it and hopefully circulate it in advance that work
and you all can chime in and say I don't really get slide 12 you know you know, we can talk about it. If there's significant discussion to be had, then it's a good thing we have that meeting to do it. But otherwise, I would hope it to be a very quick meeting. If if we don't if we're basically out of ideas right now until we get town the town to have a shot at this thing, then, you know, it doesn't have to be a long meeting at all. But no, Liz and I were talking about this. I mean that that that presentation does still need some more work some you know to make it really final and I'm happy to have her help and you know try and get it where it needs to be. I I agree with the extra slide idea. I think we can make that
happen over the weekend into next week.
Yep.
And then again like I said we can it will confirm the RAM numbers and then have a short meeting on Wednesday night just to all be on one page and move forward. So Lisa, can I ask you a question about our spreadsheets? Like the proper Here I've got my spreadsheets up, but like these are mine and I've been monkeying around with them. So I really want
I want I was just going to ask you what your final figure is that you have cuz we we made two changes tonight. I believe. So I just wanted to make sure total expens which lines do you want totals for?
Grand total expenditure.
What I have for grand total expenditure? Remember, we put the offset below this.
Yes.
Is 13,688,592.
Okay. That's not what I have.
What do you got?
Cuz I put in the I put in the new RAM figure and that's off
$5,000.
Yes, that's less 5,000.
Oh, hold on. Hold on. That might be my mistake because this I had it on one chart but not the other. Hold up. The two charts don't talk to each other. So,
yep.
H Where's RAM? Where's Ram? There it is. Education. Ram, you're You got it. Okay. What's the RAM number again?
4258178. Is that what I have? Let me go back up.
Yep.
Okay. And then
and then we made the change for AHM.
That one was already I think on my chart, but I'm going to double check it again because I'm going to be scrolling right past it
because I didn't have that change.
Yeah, it should be 111.
Yep.
etc., etc. So now what's your total expenditure?
111854. My total expenditure number now is 13,684 316.
Correct. Okay.
6.08%.
Yes.
Huzzah.
Okay. Now, as far as the mil, I'm not I'm not giving you anything tonight because I really need to dig deep into that one and make sure it's right.
It's like especially because you've got the two different figures.
Yeah. and we have changed some figures. So I really want and that taxable amount I want to make sure that's correct. So with that taxable amount you're saying take off the ops out correct
he total raised by taxation.
Yeah. We you know I think right right kind of right before the end is where we want to take off the 258 etc.
But as far as in the mill rate sheet you want that off of there off of the mill rate sheet also. I I Yeah, I mean
Okay,
so here Yeah. So, hang on a second. So, you know, my mail rat's gotten a little busy here as you can see, but and I've done some weird things down here by mistake, but formatting wise, but we have this total by taxation number. I have it pulling the RAM levy offset number off to get down. Wait a minute. This seems This seems off now. Hang on. Something went wrong here. This went something went wrong here. This number is correct. Total raised by taxation. This number, where is this pulling from? There's no formula in this. So should this number here total raised by taxes be this minus this
the abatesments this is a negative number right?
Yes that
so it's like plus this. So if that's the number equals F11, yep, minus G28. Yep. And that's how you get to 6.76. Huzzah. Okay, that actually I think this checks out. This is what I have. So this is the with RAM levy offset total raised by taxation number down here.
Let's look back at that total though.
Which total? Okay,
we just said this total is 13 684 316
All right, let's do it right. 13
Yeah. 684
316 Enter.
Okay. Okay. 6.72.
Okay. The estimated revenue hasn't changed. fund balance is still zero. Abatement hasn't changed. Right. So this should be a pretty simple calculation of these three numbers, right? So hopefully that's correct. Total rates by taxes.
And our revenue didn't change at all. Is that correct? Just double checking. Well, I I don't think I mean because we didn't put the the RAM thing in the revenue, so we left that alone, right?
Okay. Yeah,
we put that down here.
Okay.
I don't know what else would change revenue at this point.
Okay. Yeah, we haven't touched it in a long time. I was just double checking.
Right. So these numbers are hopefully wasn't this this was one we were talking about Liz where a little unclear of whether this is 498 or 499. We we were looking
499. It's the 499.
Yeah, it is the 499 number.
It's because because this but it's not because this number's off. It's because this one might be off by like two grand or something like that.
Yes, the 4 million. Yeah, the 4,562 and the 4,46 from the previous years, those totals are incorrect. And so if you do the math, this difference doesn't add up correctly,
right? But this number is accurate.
So there is that. This is just
Yeah,
the difference is wrong. The difference is correct on on the AES budget. It's $4.99.40. It's just that the math doesn't work if you try to use the calculation.
Okay.
But that's not making this wrong. That's just that's making this a little bit off. I mean, this isn't even out to the number of decimal places where it would show up probably.
So 44 4991 is that what you put there? 4991.
Yeah, that's the correct number. Yeah, that is the correct. I haven't changed it here yet, but the the answer the reason this is off is that this number here, fiscal year 2526 is slightly apparently slightly off.
Yeah, it's $210 off from the total. If you add up all the numbers of the budget that year,
it's 2010 off.
Some kind of error was in the spreadsheet. Okay, so yeah. So, Lisa,
the only thing Wait a minute. Go back down to the town budget. Are we sure that's the total for the town budget?
No, hang on. Let me double check that, too.
I don't know if I'm using this in All right, hang on. Back to the other chart.
municipal budget. Is that what that line's supposed to be?
Yeah, it's capital and
Oh, okay.
Capital and municipal. Right.
So what do we have?
Yeah.
So it should be
4,362487
and I have 4 million 363022. Could that possibly be that 5,000 again? I don't know. Let me just Okay, let's look at this. The RAM as budget numbers is coming from I46. All right.
Yeah, those are fine. I get those. But it's the town total
which includes down here. It includes capital.
So
I don't have Yeah, that for a municipal budget. I have 3364272. Isn't that what I have? Let's see. 33. No. What have you got? No, yours is right. Okay. Hold on.
Okay.
Cuz we made that change down in the total before I did this. Added these two together.
All right. Hold on. So, let's do three. All right. Mine match. If I'm right on one chart, I'm right on the other.
Yes. Now it's correct. Now, and is that correct?
I just have terrible formatting. Your total your total isn't correct, is it?
Which this
maybe my total is not correct. Now
my my total matches my other chart. So if I go here
and I tally oops and I tally this and this the town municipal budget and the capital budget, right?
Yep.
Just 4989 plus 491. I you know I get that. I just typed it in so I could copy it.
So this is the number I get. So what's what's which which one of our So if you're not getting that number, then one of these has to be off somewhere.
Let me let me check something though.
Okay.
So Rob, did you say last year that the mill rate calculation was like connected to this budget? So it just fed
Yeah, the mill rate chart was part of this this chart used to have like a bunch more tabs.
So after this is all over, can we can we work on making this easier? I would like I would like once we get through this I'm I'm you know I'm extending I understand what Lisa is dealing with but going forward in future. Yes. I would like
my chart back together.
Hold on.
Yes. Yeah. It's really nice when all the tabs funnel into the main
and the formulas feed so that if you make a change
Yes. And if memory serves, the other thing that used to be in here was a whole bunch of detailed sub sheets from the various departments.
Yep.
Yeah.
I mean, I I know we have the old ones. I I you know, this got built from kind of from scratch almost, I think, this year. and I won't blind as to why that happened, but there were old charts that,
you know, I think I've said I sent sent you some like this is how we used to do it and how we kind of like it and I'm open to changes, but yeah, that one getting the tax the taxation chart back on the in in the spreadsheet in the budget spreadsheet would be would be great at some point.
Can you go back to your mill mil mill rate,
Rob? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think I'm Let's see. No, I still don't have what you have. Hold on. 50634258 I'm still getting 506 4258 and 436.
We're off on on this line. We're off on the total and over budget that down there. I
31 line.
Yeah, that 13 684 316. Isn't that what we said it was?
Back to the chart.
Total total and over budget is off. That's right. That's correct. It's in your
mill 684 316.
That's correct. Go to your mill rate though. And that's not what you're getting down here down below right there. You're not. That's not what you have there.
All right. Hang on. Let me
Yeah,
let me get it right.
Yeah.
13684 316. Right.
Yes.
Okay.
Oh, come on. I'll just I'll just type it. 13684 36
316. Yeah, there you go. There. And now my other numbers are okay. All right. All right. the only other thing that I kind of don't like, like me, I just sat here and I do numbers. I got to the I added the RAM, the Andover Elementary, the Ram, and then there's all that calculation and no one knows whether or not they're adding the 4258 or the 399 because really that that's not in that figure of 43. I I don't know. It just gets I don't know if we should almost and I can do it at another point. I don't want to hold everybody up, but I still think we
might want to put it separate below because I think that's going to confuse people with it in there like that
because the figure you're really using, you want your expenditures to stay true. So, you don't want to introduce that 258 negative until underneath.
That's why they're going to go, "Wait a minute, that doesn't add up." Right.
I I am happy to move this, Lisa. I'll take any advice you want to have on that. That's totally fine. I wanted to make sure it knitted out properly, so this number was right.
Yep.
but you No, that's fine. if this goes here instead, I'm okay with that.
Yes. Yeah, that's what I think because we kind of did that with the total page on the book, too. So,
but then do we put the total?
No, you don't. You put it above the fund, you skip a line, you put it above the fund balance. So you don't bring in that fund balance and so
you put it in here. You put it in here.
Insert a line there. Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, I'm open to that.
Yeah.
did you have this you have your version of this chart?
Yes. Yep.
the only difference is, you know, I was screwing around with mill rate calculations over here. You don't necessarily need that. I want you to reproduce it anyway. So you've got your chart. Your chart is is the gospel, right? Mine is Mine is me doing my best, but I want you to be the you are the keeper of the of the real one.
Yeah. I just wanted to make sure we were the same. Okay.
No, I appreciate
Now we're different. Yeah. Okay. Now we're the same. Okay.
All right. So, all right. In terms of process, Liz and I will work on the presentation. Lisa when to the extent she's able
can work on double check and format
y
the charts to be right and as best practice. I guys unless anybody else disagrees I'm fine with moving the RAM levy offset stuff down here. That's fine by me. However is the cleanest way. I don't want to confuse people. I want people to understand what we're doing.
Yeah.
Liz and I work on the presentation. Those of us who can, everybody who can manage it, who can show up Monday night to that RAM meeting,
is that posted on our website under the same calendar, the RAM meeting?
I don't know. It it I think that email just came out today.
I know it will be posted on our Does anybody know does that get posted on
That's a darn good question. hang on, let me stop sharing so we can get the linkage and all that or
Let me
The link is in the in the email. in the email from Colin, which I forwarded you guys, but
I'm just looking at who he sent this to.
He sent it to to me, Jeff Maguire, and kind of our colleagues around the town. He sent it to Val, and I assume all the people down here are you know, the school supers and and what have you. What I don't see is like this isn't I Kate doesn't have this yet. I don't know. I mean, it's not our meeting, but I could forward it to her and say, "Hey, is there any way we could display this somewhere on the You know what the real problem is?" Whether she'll have time to do it between now and Monday night, but I I'll I'll send it on, see what she says. Does that Does that work? Anybody got a thought on that?
Works. Are you sending this? You know, I'm just thinking
I thought when you post for the town meeting, you have those figures and you can't change them till after the town meeting. that that's maybe it's a different charter. I don't know. But you have to these figures that we're changing. I'm just kind of worried. But
well, we haven't gone to town meeting yet, right? So
when you post Okay, maybe I'm thinking referendum.
Yeah,
I don't know. But I think there a certain time you have to have those.
I think we're okay to tweak them right up until town meeting. I mean, we were catching we've caught errors the day of.
Okay.
Yeah,
that's my take.
take good notes Monday night because I will have five grandchildren with me and I don't think I'll be I don't think I'll get much if I sign on. So,
I suspect you won't.
Twins. So, I I I will have them until nine o'clock. So,
Rob, do we want to move to our public speak or
I mean, yeah, I was going to say I Yeah, I can do the email to Kate later. if if I just want to make sure nobody on the board has any further thoughts, discussion, anything else they want to bring up before we go to public speak. Yeah. I'm good.
All right, I'll go around. let's see. Scott,
nothing. Thank you. Thanks for the hard work.
Joanne,
hey. thank you. I I guess I thought I was going to see a little more work happening. I understand, you know, I just think this is I'm worried about this budget just because of this budget going to town meeting if it passes there, you know, I mean, and there's no real vote, like I said, you know, like I'm I'm kind of in agreement with Liz. I don't I think that there probably won't be cuts there. I mean, people do make motions and things of that nature. Then it'll go to referendum. This very well could be the budget you all are given to the town this year, you know, because and if it passes, it passes. I just thought we were you were going to look at it a little tighter tonight all around. I understand that you are waiting to maybe cut the board of ed or certain members of you, you know, because I've been watching and I I know what everybody's thinking and kind of how, you know, I've gotten to know you through the years. I just thought a little more close observation was going to be taken at some of the capital funds this year or maybe, you know, just tightening up a couple couple things. That's all. I mean, it is what it is and and it's going to town meeting unless you do make some changes, but I was kind of on the line what Bill was saying. I
wish it could have gotten down to one mil rate. It's just the biggest increase I've ever seen. So, again, that's I know you're all working hard and everybody has their own idea of where they want to see cuts. So, I 100% respect that. I've told you all that I thought could be tweaked a little bit and I supported all of you. So, I just thought a little more was going to come off, but it is what it is and we'll see what happens. Thank you.
Thanks, Joanne. Marcy,
hi. yeah, I appreciate all the work you guys are doing. the only thing that I wanted to say was the something that nobody's ever mentioned about the problem with the RAM and what they're going to do with all that. I wonder if there's people that may have been living in town for like four or five years and have moved out and wouldn't they want a refund? So, that that's what goes through my mind is, you know, we've been overcharged all these years and yeah, sure, come off next budget, but you know, what about those kinds of situations? So anyway, I know it's not your decision, but I mean it's a thought. So thanks.
Thanks, Marcy. Valerie.
Hi. Thanks. Can you hear me?
Can.
Okay. so I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. We we had a a a conversation by a couple of board members on surpluses and actuals. and obviously I represent the school side. So the thing is about the surpluses, there's a lot of talk from a few members of the board of finance on the year that we had a large surplus. And although the board of ed could have done something with that prior to the end of the fiscal year, we met with you guys and said, "Let's be responsible with the taxpayer dollar and put it aside for something in the future that would defay the cost to the taxpayer, but the town has also had surpluses over the years. And I just don't want there to be a double standard when we're talking about surpluses because if you made a chart, you would see that there are surpluses on both of those budgets year after year. And so I think that that's something that if we are going to have that conversation, it does have to
not be a double standard and we have to make sure that we look at both. As far as the actuals go, that isn't a way for the school to budget. I'll give you a quick example and then I'll explain what I mean. If every week a family has $50 in their grocery bill for diapers, it's $50, it's $50, it's $50. And then one week they go to the store and it's $30 because they're on sale. The following week you don't budget based on the actual from the week before, which was $30. You budget based on $50 because it was an oddity that you had $30 the week before. And so when we're looking at actuals, we have to take two things into consideration. That is, was there an oddity that occurred to cause that actual not to be as high as it was
the year before? But we also have grants that come in. So a $100,000 that might have been reduced in a salary wasn't necessarily not an actual. It was placed in a grant revenue. and therefore our actuals were in fact the right amount. It's just not offset in the general fund. And you did a lot of work. I I've watched your budget meetings. You've done a lot of work with looking at the town side. But there were times too there where the actuals from two years earlier were much lower than what was being put in this year's budget. and you had to talk through the why and say, "Well, sure, it was only $5,000 for two
years, but we're putting $10,000 in now, but here's why." And we have that as well. So, that is all I would like people to realize is when talking about surpluses, there have been surpluses on both sides before. And when looking at actuals, the general fund actuals don't necessarily reflect all of the expenditures that we had. So, thank you and thank you for your time. All right. Did I miss anyone of the public? I don't think I did, but speak up now if I did. Anybody? Anybody? All right. I think we have our game plan for what it's worth. do we have a motion to adjourn the meeting?
Motion to adjurnn.
Bill Johnny on the spot. Do we have a second? Louise, I think, raised her hand.
Louise is raising her hand. She's just muted.
Okay.
All right. We'll we'll count that though. Louise, I saw your hand.
All right. All in favor? Bill?
Me? I. Louise.
I.
Liz.
Yes. I.
Heather.
Yes.
Kim.
Yes.
That's 6. And we of course are missing Nick. So that's all we've got. All right, everybody. I'm going to end the meeting. We're going to kill the recording here. Stop recording.