I fig Eric did that from yeah Eric you can come back we didn't start the meeting yet we were waiting for I didn't want you didn't watch you we only have one started so must be Lo so at 7:05 called the meeting order and first order of business is to stand the flag of the United States of America the rep for it stands one nation indivisible okay so the next item on the agenda is public speak and Kim I think you're maybe the only person of the public here's not Finance yeah I'm actually attending as a board of Finance member via Zoom thank you I guess that was that was the next thing that I was going to suggest we do is we just go around the room and if everybody would just say their name and what board they're on that that might be helpful so fa with you L Goodwin Board of Finance Liz lat Board of Finance Eric Becker Board of Education rers Bo of Finance Celeste Willard Board of Education Joan Heber for of Finance Kate Greenhouse Larson Planning and Zoning but for tonight it'll be moderator of the meeting janon L Jerry and Jeff Maguire b s Scott Pon Ro to select okay and Eric and Valerie don't don't you want to come over here and be part of the team or have a SE at the table well thanks we will come over if you need us to at that point you guys introduce yourselves also Taylor cracker principal and Terry Smith Finance director for and over Elementary Eric quiet Eric Anderson thank you so moving on to the next item here would be changes or additions to the
agenda do anybody have any changes or additions that they would like to present okay hearing none we'll move on to the next item which is the Andover Elementary School Capital Improvement fund usage protocol discussion and possible actions and I don't know who should lead off on that but Shannon I know you you were trying to work with I think Robert yeah and from the last meeting and maybe you can just give an update on how that went and where we stand okay so we drafted a policy the Board of Education passed it this past June I think they then went in front of the board of Finance they liked policy but wanted input from the town attorney Dennis O'Brien then wanted from the board of Selectmen and now we're kind of at an impass we don't have a policy that's been passed and at the last Board of selectman meeting to the board of Finance I suggested that if we can't pass a tri board policy that we might consider using the mechanism that already existed in the past for our 2% non-aps and account for the new capital fund that been created for the school the Board of Education and that would be basically an agreement between I guess the Board of Education and the board of Finance that would say that the board of education has to ask permission from the board of Finance to deposit money into that account and we would ask permission to take it out as financial representative of the town and the Board of Education that seems to make sense to me if we can't do it otherwise well that sounds kind of reasonable I'm sure is is there anybody who would like to address what they saw
as concerns on the the draft that Robert and Shannon I don't know if you want to speak to that on but we have Haven seen I haven't seen a came back from the attorney so I haven't seen that yet so I don't really have any input coming from The Other Board of find members have or not my concern was just I know that we had been talking about it for a long time and it was decided that we would come up with a policy so Rob and Shannon had put a lot of time into drafting like this onepage thing that all of you know just for a little history and then I know it made its way you know up into the board of Selectmen meeting and then I was listening and then I don't have that I was looking for it quickly today to try to print the differences so I don't know Jeff do you remember like what I can comment real quickly so Dennis didn't offer advice on it he changed it he had significantly so he cut it down from like a two two person per board membership to one person per board and put on that it would be the chair of each board and that wasn't really what was intended it was intended to be a committee like anything would be a committee so Dennis made a lot of changes and didn't just provide advice on the existing policy that had been passed by the board of De we have I guess I'm unaware has that been like presented at another meeting the changes that he it was presented to the board of selected you guys talked about it but
was there a physical document that it was first was it in September but it got waved to October because I was looking through the minutes I'm trying to refresh any tonight and then I think they talked about it in the October meeting so we're now just at the beginning of December so it hasn't been that long so maybe Eric or maybe they are working on it if there is going to or not I mean I guess I guess the question really is I've had this question from the beginning no one's been able to give me a real answer what is the problem that this committee is solving that's not getting done currently because what
seems to have existed in the past is that like the Board of Ed would say they had a capital project and we told at one point in time by the board of Selectmen that like it was a schools thing we had to figure out how to use the money to get money for it we're way past that like you guys put money into the capital account for the school I think just to have everyone on the same page that the the way that we're asking to use that money and how that money is being used is like it I I think it would be great and you said at the last meeting like it should just be between the board of finance and the Board of Ed like that's how it should be and that that would be great well but but people have said in the past like on the board of on the board of finance that they wanted the board of selectman's input and so now we we've gone a year right from when we started this process and what came out
of having a tri board meeting last year was the fact that we wanted to create a policy so that there would be a way to use that money appropriately and everyone was on the same page and it was supposed to be a policy between the Board of Education and the board of Finance which is why Robert and I were tasked with preparing or drafting the policy well I think we'd be better off understanding what our three boards handle like in just getting the lay of the land and really understanding what's up because I don't think we have the right understanding of what we're all responsible so the board of Finance obviously has responsibility for the funding making sure that everything that goes through in a budget gets approved and it's spent that's your narrow Focus but it's very important and what happened we have three basic segments within our town we have the town budget the AES budget and we have the ram budget the ram budget is 4.2 million in the ballpark the AES budget is $4.2 million at n Ballpark and the town budget is $4.2 million bless we're all real even but understanding the town budget which the board of Selectmen is responsible for presenting to the board of Finance for approval we have a $2.5 million operating budget and a $1.5 million Capital that capital budget is used for the benefit of the entire town right it's used for for public works it's used for the fire department it's used for the school right that's what we currently have okay we have a process within place this is why I've gotten you
know I've never gotten a straight answer I've never understood what we have CIP that is a board that consists of members of all of the different groups Board of Finance Board of Selectmen Board of Education right that is supposed to go to that group and sit there and say here are our plans but the board of education is exempt from no it is not let's now talk about what it is you are exempt from the from that process for operational expenses this building that we currently sit in is not a board of education building it's a town asset it's part of the capital no one else in their budget has a capital line except the town that's it does the Board of Education have a capital line in in their budget we would like to but we do not you don't that's because state law sits there and says that the town owns the assets inside inside this building Board of Education total control how you educate children total control the board of Selectmen has never since I've been out the ever come back to the board of selectman and told you how to spend your money within the school ever and that's not our purview not what we do not what we have control over we are the board of selectman is the overarching trying to protect all the interests of all the people within the community including the children right so I just ask I'm really
it it's a frustrating to me that a policy and I've said this came I said why did you not come to the board selectman and have a discussion a common sense discussion over what our roles are and how we work together because I'll also come back to you not once have since I've been on the board of Select have we ever sat there and flat out rejected a legitimate request from the the school on any project wait wait wait wait wait wait you attempted you attempted to pave a driveway that this is where you have to go back to your attorney from the last tri board meeting and understand what the priorities what what capital means and doesn't mean right you are going to pave a driveway without going to Jed and planning and zoning you were going to go pave a driveway without going to Public Works the people in our town in our
community the people we pay the town the whole town pays to sit there and pave roads and do roadway you were going to bypass everybody because this board the Board of Education believes that it controls and it owns the physical structures that these children get educated that is not the case right we all need to work together your attorney said it better than I could have ever said he said it but no no one seems to want to listen to what your attorney say so how so how are how what is your plan for how we work together on Capital project here give us a fiveyear plan just like every other group within this community does goes you guys are in control of what you want to spend on it we as a group have to determine if we can fund it the board of Finance has to tell us we don't have money I mean everybody's got to give a little but you come with a plan that
there and says hey I know you guys need to spend money on a bat right we've either got to put money away for the bathrooms or we've got to sit there and go to the taxpayer and say we need some more money to do these bathrooms it's that important I'll sit there and do it with you if that's what's really important the board of finance will sit there and say yeah maybe maybe not I don't want to do that but that's how we work together that's how we've always done this before we've gotten into this whole I own the building and we do whatever we want that's not reality it's never going to fly I'm telling you it's never going to fly we either all come together at like the last meeting I hope the last tri board meeting was a very nice cial meeting collegial we could figure out how to work together I remember getting r a riot act that we did something wrong and when you know the board of Selectmen was was at fault for multiple things didn't start off well not my intention was not I actually wanted this meeting to come to this meeting and just have drinks with everybody and get to know who you are so that when we have to talk to each other it's acceptable communication and we're all working but before we get there the Board of Education primarily has to understand what is capital and who is responsible for it you guys are responsible for providing the plan as to what you need and then the board of Selectmen sits there and goes to the board of finance and presents what it
feels it can it can get done and if the board of Finance doesn't like our recommendations and you go to them and you tell them we really need the money and they say they can figure out how to fund it it's on the board of Finance that's their job not so what you're suggesting just to summarize and tell me if I'm wrong is that the board of education for Capital expenditures should go to the board of Selectmen and ask permission for you to present CIP if is pro Shannon has been a member for multiple years I don't understand why we haven't used it CIP sits there and evaluates how we what capital projects we have out sits there and says hey we should be spending money on that because that's important does everybody know what CIB is capital Improvement planning plan planning plan but all the CIP does Jeff respectfully is make recommendations on capital projects that then go for approval to the board of Selectmen so what you're suggesting is that the board of education has to go to the CIP and eventually has to go to the board of Selectmen to ask what we're asking to do
with the board of finance and I want to get back to you said you've never turned stuff down yes not true what we July 11th 2022 you turn down specifically our superintendent's request for a generator and spent six mon minutes of that meeting because I recently watched it again to tell Valerie that you couldn't help her because it's all between the board of finance and not the board of Selectmen so Valerie then went to the board of Finance with exactly what we're talking about today let's have a policy between the two of us when we met a year ago it was very clear that it was supposed to be between the Board of Education and the board of Finance it's not been very clear you it was why were
we asked to do the policy listen listen the fire department does the exact same stuff and we fund the fire department to sit there and get their stuff this is not the board the public works is not a separate entity like the AES or the the fire department so I want to I want to be clear as to what the organizations are but everybody comes and does the same things but but that's that's the hard part at least for me and in in what I've read and I don't I think other people should speak as well as the three of us but you the board of education is not a department of the like the way that that works is not exactly the same when we've had money at the end of a budget and we needed to redo the floors upstairs like we're able to say we want to redo the floors upstairs and do it so so inside the building inside the building right
inside the building not a mechanical structure I'm at it like we're not gonna tell you nothing no one's for a generator Jeff you know when Shannon you go to that generator and I'll sit there and I'll go because that was that was adrianne's issue related to the generator was another reason why that got pushed because there was funding That was supposed to happen at a different time and it was chosen not to do go in that direction so the the and and listen I am going to tell you the Board of Education thinks it's going to get everything that it ask approv exactly when it gets approved this town is incapable of raising funds in certain ways so so we have to work together it's there's no other way there's nothing else I can lay out for anybody else if I could say one thing too Jeff like I like that you're bringing that to the table and again I mean watching these meetings and being a part of them for the last few years too it's definitely going to come to some type of Trust on everybody's side to hopefully move it forward because I know that a lot of things that have happened in the past still probably hurt deeply or you know they dig deep or whatever I'd like to see us move forward too with some kind of and like Caitlyn said and you have
said too I mean I've been at many meetings when you said that you want to just move forward but I can understand why the mistrust is there just based on everything that keeps being brought up I'm a type that I like to move forward to after a while because we keep recycling this so if Jeff does have an idea and I know we were prepare a fiveyear capital plan what things the Board of Education sees coming out in the future that it needs get addressed and then we as a community Finance selectman Board of Education all need to come together and say these are the available resources we have this is what we can do and we can't do and and it's just reality I not I'm not I I sound you know worse than this is but I'm just telling you we just need to work together So the fiveyear plan is that you want that presented to CIP or you want to have another tri board meeting to present that like listen I I see you presenting it to CIP and then CIP taking and and listing out the things we're do so I I know that we asked the fire department for their plan they give us their plan let me tell you she'll tell you they give us their plan and they ask for everything right and there's certain things that we sit there and we have sat in the last six years and tried to bank money and fund these funds and try to put away money because we know we cannot hit the town up for all
the money needed all in one year so we put money away and it was the same thing that we did with the the Board of Education building we know we have problems coming up we're not blind we're not mean people you know I'm not mean I support the school in every possible way that I can right so but it's common sense and what you're asking I would sit there and tell you when my your asking for a whole new process to be in put in place that doesn't need to be there and it shouldn't be there and it's just a way to gain control over some other issue we all have responsibilities roles and responsibilities what education's role is to educate the children word a finance role is to take care of our money and make sure that we don't do
anything stupid with it the bard of selectman's role is to try to have an overarching view of the community and try to plan and do do things that are right for the community long term that that's what I perceive my goal to and my job so I'm just wondering does the real issue come down to the new capital fund that was created the non- reoccurring just to understand how that money can be accessed for projects I think that's what they're asking for policy outside of all the other they put forth what their they their priorities are if they sat there and said their priority was the driveway right that's $150,000 we might be able to tackle that because we have the money there if they're telling us the the the priority is the bathrooms and that's a $300,000 project we might have to work with you we put $100,000 away there there's some extra more money there I think what is the number in that fund 209 so but we need to put more in listen the school the school is our biggest physical asset it's the it's the biggest building
in town it needs it what was it seven years ago we put the roof on this building $400,000 thereabouts job it's not like the building's been ignored but I will tell you I haven't seen A Five-Year Plan or any list of any physical projects that would like to get done that lists sit out for for us to see into the future as to what we need to we've had requests for the floor and the gym and the the bleachers and you tried to do the driveway and I'll sit there and I'll go yeah you know the driveway is a little bit of a problem because everybody's got to play by the rules should have went to planning the zoner should have should have sat there and done a lot of things within that process so yes we did sit there and say no because again it's getting an
understanding as a group as a group what is a capital asset and who has the responsibility for those asset and Jee I know that in the school district that I work there you know we see the capital plan we see the capital things listed out you know when they present their budget or when they have their but I would like wouldn't we all like to see like priorities I mean we should if we're going to talk General we should give is that not what item six on the agenda I thought that we we were going to tonight so I kind of like to no I'm just talking about the capital plan in general like it's a document but then am I going above that I just meant I don't know but first I think the first thing is the prioritized lists of what we want to do which generate the capital plan
and then we figure out how we're going to fund it well in on this agenda I thought that this is just a light overview because obviously we're coming start right and I think I think we keep going in a circle right because and and and the end goal is the same like right we all have the same positive end goal in mind but like to talk about a protocol for how we use the fund I want to I want to know the protocol for how we use it before we continue to fund it you want the plan of what the things are that we want to do with it before we continue to fund it no I want to work with you to understand what your priorities are so when we put your priorities in front of the board of Finance they're in the correct order that the Board of Education believes they need to be so so I would I would like to go back you know one of the things I didn't care for the last time we got together was we ended abruptly and we didn't talk about what it was that we agreed on at the meeting and I thought we lost some of that but I did take a couple of notes and these were the points that I heard the Board of Ed attorney rep Tom Mooney provide to us the Board of Ed and Andover Elementary School are part of the town and should be working together Board of Ed needs a capital
expenditure plan the Board of Ed and the town need to be married to each other with regards to the capital expenditure plan the town was not asking the board of ed for anything they could not be obtained by anyone using a freedom of information request and there was no evidence that the town was trying to tell the Board of Education what to do with their operation budget so that's what I took away from Tom Mooney at the last meeting and I thought that if we if we as a group could agree with just those things that would help but I'm not sure we're there yet I think we should I think we should be there I think we should be too we have to be there it's a question it's question for me this is the only thing that I sit there and see as a is a very gray area from the Board of Education stand the building again is a physical capital asset of the town just like the town hall just like the fire department just like the library just like any other building if you could get past the concept that if you got to do a roof you got to do the roof the Board of Education isn't going to fund that roof it's not part of the the budgetary process is not part of any it's a town
which which goes back to the board of Selectmen presenting the budget and giving it to the board of Finance to sit there and say approv in reality in my mind very simple Common Sense thing is here are the list of things to do these are the things that we need to sit there and present to the board of of Finance we may not be able to get that job totally done but maybe we put away 50 or $100,000 and then the board of Finance gets to see that this is all the money going to these Capital plans because again the town's budget is $4 million million and a half is for Capital just saying I it's not it's not anything that anyone should have like there shouldn't be a gray area anymore I I honestly I would like to today if we could just get past the issue that this building is a town asset it's part of it's got to be part of the capital plan the parking lot is part of the capital
plan everything is part of the capital plan if you put a book in the building part of the board of education budget we never mess with what about the elevator right what about the plumbing like has to be elevator Plumbing has to be part of it has to be part of it I'm just telling it has to be part of it I think can she well you have to come to the table so I think I think one of the major issues for me in this small town is and I disagree with a couple of things that you think are very clearly black and white and they're not if we think about so my role is superintendent usually it says superintendent of schools in this town only of one school so if you look at every other town there are obviously State statutes and there are Town Charters if you look at big cities small cities there is you know there are lanes and and and I know that it's very easy to say everything goes through the board of select sure if you want to very clearly say whether it's Andover or let's take GL bear it's a bigger town
you say are the properties themselves Town owned sure they are they're absolutely Town owned no superintendent Board of Education owns that building however there are roles and responsibilities of each board and it would be silly if any other board in this town thought that they had a role and responsibility to oversee the money that's clearly you know agreed upon by everybody in this room that that's the board of finings but then the role in responsibility gets a little mudded when there's one school involved so Jeff you just keep saying that things within the school the principal runs the day-to-day operations of the building that is not the board of edge that's not my job if I had 10 schools 12 schools like glenberry I wouldn't be running day-to-day operations of the school I'd be running the school district the oversight of the school district is the superintendent however the board of education is the town elected board that oversees everything related to 35 School Road they do if it's Glastonberry it is the board of education's job to have oversight of every school in Glastonberry that's the way it is that is the rule that's the law that is absolutely in our town Charter that says that that is why there are multiple times where it says excludes the Board of Education excludes the Board of Education now in the town this size with one school let's picture
lanes because we say you know we like people to be in their Lan if you have one lane road this way you have one lane road this way that yellow line in the middle that's the board of Finance because the board of Finance has a different Lane but they kind of oversee both of the other lames because finances are absolutely clear that you guys would oversee everything you keep saying that we're no different than the fire department we're no different than Library we absolutely are there is no Town elected board like the board of Finance the Board of Education and the board of Selectmen please let me finish jeck thank you where they oversee just library library is a department of of the board select in most other larger towns there are cities say there are the general fund operational just like Ram has actually in the regional and there is another budget a separate budget that would be a capital budget so it's usually very clear that you know in this particular Town we've never had one we've been trying to establish one because up until this point we've used
all and every bit of our extra operational funds to to do Capital related things within the building now in every other town if it's a board of ed Board of Education also has subcommittees and they have subcommittees that are the finance subcommittee the facility subcommittee there are facilities and operations people not just custodians there are facilities and operations people in the town board of education for Hein and board of education for Marboro for Ram they have their own people but they're under the opes of the Board of Education not town but what Tom Mooney will say always is this is good practice this we've been trying to do is to get a board of Finance or Board of Education and the board of Selectmen to all work together and the last part that Moone had mentioned because that was a little bit of a bone of contention at the time for us with the driveway was it is true that that money was general fund money it was operational money the Board of Education was at that time following everything related not only to the law because by law by Statute they oversee the Appropriations that were given to them for the general fund by Charter if they needed an additional appropriation they would have gone to the board of Finance which it was not an additional appropriation and the charter States very clearly that if it goes to the board of Finance the board of Finance as Shannon mentioned would go to CIP so we were not violating anything there because we were following not only the General statute of the law but we were also following the charter that was money that was the general fund money
that due to Grants and things was there for the Board of Education to continue to do we have somebody coming out to fix lights in the parking lot Shannon mentioned earlier that yes historically we have gone not just for the generator for other things and that meeting itself that you know she made mention of the board of Selectmen did say at that time had as they had for 10 years prior when things happen you guys have to figure it out you're the Board of Education that's what the board of education is here for I do think that the problem is sometimes it gets a little gray and a little muddy because we have one school but it does not change the role and responsibility of the Board of Education of the superintendent and of the principal the day-to-day operations of this building the books the curriculum that's not my job or the board of education on a day-to-day basis that's the principal's job to take care of the day-to-day operations of what goes on in the building and then when we look at the next step that's the superintendent's job and again whether it's one school or 10 schools that would be the superintendent's job then the Board of Education makes those higher decisions that I think Jeff is saying should go to the board of Selectmen they don't go to the board of Selectmen for approval in other towns they just don't that's the
responsibility of the board of education so where we need to work together is now we actually are at a point and yes it was 18 months ago that I went to robber because we were at a point where we still weren't being given an operation I mean a capital budget from the town but we could help create one on our own due to Surplus due to Grants that offset things and so because of that then we were 1,000% willing to say this is money that needs to go toward Capital stuff so we don't have to ask anybody for anything else we want you guys as the finance people to appropriate that for us we're going to say you tell us put it into that separate account we'll come to you and tell you what needs to be done now we also have to remember that as a small town we have departments we have a a public works department we have a fire department we have a library we don't have a huge maintenance department either so we do have to work together on things but then we have to hire outside as well so it is going to take us working together on projects to get these things done absolutely moving forward so we're going to have to have those conversations but legally the town board that oversees this is elected and it's the board of education so we didn't violate anything to do with the charter
we didn't violate anything to do with State Statute and coming up with this policy now is a new policy because we've never had a capital account before so that's why we went to to to you guys before so I I'm sorry that sounds longwinded but it is difficult sometimes when we are a one little town with three boards for people to understand there are roles and responsibilities of each and they are State Statute and they are you know clearcut oversight and it's an elected body their job is not to Fig out books in the library that's not the board of edge job that's here and they're here they don't figure out the books in the library I don't even figure out the books in the library Taylor figures out the books in the library so I I will say for one I missed missed something when we were talking about how one school is harder than a bunch of schools it sounded not harder sometimes I feel Jeb like when when Jeff kind of simplifies the role of the board the role of the super the role of the principal that because it's one school he thinks we all run what goes on inside of this building and that's it and that's not the case but isn't it isn't it a good deal for the Board of Education if the town capital budget is going to fund Board of Education projects isn't that a win for you guys it wouldn't that be knew we haven't had that before there are no projects that have been funded since in the five years I've been here right okay okay wait wait a second my oversimplification just so everybody understands my oversimplification is
simply I am talking about the building I am talking about the walls the roof the electrical the elevator all of that stuff comes under the capital when I reference the books and the operational spending I don't care I I know the board of education is really overall respons the principal may spend but you're responsible for and and that's where I'm saying the board of Selectmen doesn't interfere in that that's what I was trying to express to everybody here so you understand when I sit there and reference this building to the fire department into the library they all have the same implications to the town we have to we have to keep them up and we have to do a good job of it this town has honestly not done the best job of keeping this up until the last six or seven years yes yeah and anyone who doesn't believe that should you know you can't you can't even argue it like that that we've done more in the last six or seven years it's been it's a new thing there's a lot of stuff happening the last six or seven years and didn't Happ before just a school that was neglected because I think the school was neglected for was neglected the roads were neglected buildings were neglected so this is the issue and this is the issue that the superintendent will sit there and take except it's a it's a pool we only have a pool for
everything I can't do everything I would want to do for the Board of Education and for this building I can't we cannot we cannot we can't do everything for our roads as Bill since they in refence we can't do everything for every building that we need to we we chip away and if we don't work as a team we don't work as a team and you can wait for me y if we if we don't work as a team we will continue to fight over this right right it's either we work together and we get it done and you come back to the group whether it's the board of educa board of selectman or the board of Finance the CIP is how it's supposed to be done go to CIP and present your plan for what you want done and win and then you can sit there and be at the table at the same time as we a lot our monies for the $1.5 million that we have available right to sit there and see what we can do you think for selectman oversees the board of that no I told you that no no so so who who my question is a sincere one I'm not trying to be confrontation with you J so who is it that goes to CIP the board of Selectmen or the Board of Education the CIP group makes recommendations but who goes to them you're you're repres prorities your your plan what your representative who's been on the board for how many years so but I'm trying to back up so if if the Board
of Ed decides that there's a a project here yeah that needs to be done and and and they want to move forward with that project and it's not our general fund what's the trajectory of where they go from there who do they go to First even even though the charter says that it it it doesn't say operational Jeff I'm looking here on my thing it said it does not apply to the Board of Education you can go to your attorney and go ask him the question and you've never listened to him no it's not Tom money is not our attorney okay somebody else is no never Tom roody came as an advisor as a as a courtesy last time Jeff okay didn't you own the building are you responsible we are responsible resp by law by law we are responsible for the care maintenance and operation maintenance of buildings land yeah apparat and other property used for school purposes and at all times shall ensure all such buildings and Capital Equipment contained therein against loss and an amount Blah Blah Blah by law we're responsible for buildings land you can twist it anywhere I'm not twisting it you guys can decide what you want Yeah by law the Board of Education shall have the care maintenance and operation y maintenance and operation agreed okay keep of buildings lands so we have a we have we have a we have a a property right that by the lines and whatnot defines what the property is for the school correct right are we sh if you want to build school next year build
school try to get all I'm trying say is look it's two things we have a law and we have a charter the charter says the Board of Education doesn't have to go before CIP which is where this whole thing came into it I'm just ask if you wanted to build a new school how would you go about it how would you build a new school and how would that happen would you do that out of your operational budget or you'd have to go to the town to get the capital funds to build a new school correct I guess that's true thank you very much that's it that's trying say capital building it's a but then what is what is our responsibility Bill said the operational maintenance of the building here here's what I'm hearing is Shannon you talked about some things you're responsible for building and all that kind of stuff it doesn't talk about the process by which you execute those responsibilities which can be through going to the capital appr
Improvement plan and working with all the other priorities of the town and you've got a voice and a very strong one that you can get in there and and make your case for why these things are important and we've got to work together at that with a little bit of but our Charter says we don't go to CIP it's not just for our operational budget does the charter say you can't do CIP it doesn't say that it says that we are exempt from CIP why have we had a member from the of education on CIP for as long as I've been engaged in this why do we have one from the board of Finance why do we have one from the fire Board of because it's common sense it makes sense you bring go ahead I've been on CIP now for almost a year and to me it seems like people come with their projects we listen oh yeah that sounds good okay yeah we'll say go ahead and do it but we don't really understand on CIP the finance end of it that's the finance the board of Finance and then I think that having a fiveyear capital plan is probably one of our best things so that we can look at everything at what's coming what's coming in the future maybe you know you guess at it but you plan it and the other thing I wanted to say is the way I look at it the school the Board of Education and the school is the custodian of the property the property is owned by the town but the school is the custodian of it and
has to manage the care of it so it's that in between thing like Valerie was saying all working together I agree 100% I like the idea of the tri board policy as a way to discuss these things with just two people from each board instead of trying to get this whole crowd together and agree on something it it and I agree with you 100% And nothing happens within in my mind nothing happens Common Sense tells me nothing happens to this building without the approval of the Board of Education even if we come up let's sit there and say that the board of Select and decided they wanted to do something to the school we wanted to add a new elevator build a pool right build a pool we build a pool if we didn't have your buying we can't do it just the same way if you don't have our buy you can't do it yeah said the fans of the gym well listen the fans in the gym if you sit there and say you don't want the fans then guess what you you don't have to have the fans that that that's my point but he but Jeff came and presented that to the board Jeff was trying to do something that's appropriate for that building in my mind because we do have heat loss there whether you want the fans or not we approved it I I mying so those those are the whole that's the whole thing it's all to me
it's all common sense we've got so far off how do we move forward how do we move forward how do we work together because we've we've spent 50 minutes rehashing the past you we so then this was all discussed at the last tri board meeting so how do we use this money this $29,000 in this fund for the bathrooms and I'll tell you Jeff the priorities are the bathrooms the other priority is the elevator and the other priority is the driveway in that order so number one is the bathroom number two is the elevator and number three is the driveway so so yes we don't have a fiveyear capital plan we are working on that that is one of our goals to have a five-year plan we have made that very clear to our superintendent and the other members of the board that that's what we're going to do okay so we we are working on that but how do we get along how do we work together to to to to fix the bathrooms to fix the elevator and to fix the driveway H how do we do that instead of rehashing what who owns this who custodial of this how do we come up with a plan right now tonight to do this stuff that's what I would like simple simple as it can be right if the Board of Education sits there and says that the bathrooms is the number one priority which which I just said you just did we go we go in with our budget and we sit
there and say we have $200,000 in this fund y non- taxed to the citizens because they've been taxed on it before it's not in the current year we're not raising our Revenue needed we sit there and determine what the price is for the bathrooms let's say it's $350,000 we need another $150,000 then we have to determine whether we can go to the board of Finance with that request for an extra $150,000 to do the bathrooms now it would have be it would be nice it would have been nice if maybe the bathrooms were on the list five years ago as a as a potentially coming down the road issue that's not how it's been that's not what's going on you're going to get to it we're getting there right so my whole point is it's if you say that's your priority right we have $200,000 $212,000 in the Board of Education building fund we go to the board of of finance and we say Hey listen bathrooms need to get done here's the expected cost this is the extra money we need can we raise it this year yes or no who's we the board of Finance I just said who of Finance it's bold it's together because again in our budget is the the Capital Money the budget the budget for the
capital money is not in the board of education's it's not we have to go together so I think if you go back to the policy that Robert and Chen tried to work on that's what they were trying to create without it being all of us here at the table no but you you are you are sitting there you are sitting there looking at one narrow issue of the Board of Education and the money that's in that fund that's it it's not the whole town it's not every other building in this town it's not everything you have to look at in a holistic total manner to determine if that's where the money can go because that's what's got to get to the board of finance and again Board of Finance can make any change to what it wants anyway it's you know it's just how it is but to go back to I don't know if it Joan or Celeste how do we go forward I think the way we do that is you got a good first step there you said bathrooms elevator and parking lot right so that's that takes care of the next thing you we
we know your priorities we integrate them with this other stuff if we begin with the end in mind there's this Capital Improvement plan and it will say in there that the Board of Ed priorities are these three and then we'll take a look at what the town priorities are and maybe we can't get the parking lot this year but but hopefully you would understand want the park lot bathroom yeah I got it but but that process through that Capital Improvement plan committee you know brings together a plan that we all talk about Board of selectman's got to be on board with it before it goes to the town meeting board of Finance has to be on board with it and board event has to be on board with it everybody should be agreeing we just got figure out how to fund it that's all so we have are how much each one cost the prioritize and then we figure out how we're going to raise the money and we have to have a fiveyear plan to raise 4 for a new roof or whatever the amount of money is we put that hand together and figure out how we to find it but if no one's talking to each other you just going to do things in your own little vacuum how you going to raise the money to do these things that's the only reason I think Jeff is saying what he's saying we're all trying to say is we need to agree and work together to fund projects there's no way you on your own to your operational budget standing all loone in your own little Sal say we're do this this this and this really we're going to get the money for that you got to have a
plan you got to have prices and you got to say this is how we're going to raise the money put it to the town the town okay at the end of the day that all comes back to like like we as a board of education need to trust the other two boards think I said the word trust early that that we all want what's best for our town and our school right like like to trust that we now have this fund which exists and when we put money into that that it's going to stay there for Capital Improvement projects otherwise like we're just giving the money back to the town anyway so it doesn't make a difference okay so back to that go back to that it's not it's not just schools
money that built that it's the taxpayers money that built that one because we put $100,000 even though everybody believes that 100,000 112 or whatever came back from the school it's it's it's there and from an accounting perspective it's a fund it's not going away that's what I'm the the town is not going to spend it on something else the board of Selectmen is not going to rate it go buy another plow great but you need trust you need the Board of Ed to trust that but but even if you don't trust it it's the auditor it's like there's there's there's a whole issue of the auditor audits it and sits there and says that's what's in that non-aps fund and that's what's there I mean or anything or anything we have I think it was somebody else said they've had money taken out by the town that needed the fund for something else that's a good conspiracy I like that I Valerie come over here Eric and then I want to hear what you got to say J when Eric beer has Eric dou Eric thing I'm interested is does the town have a good definition of what the capital project is probably not
as good as it should be okay but so I think take away too from the standpoint from a common sense standpoint it's the building oh yeah understand that's that's basically it not to reference it again but there is a pretty good definition of what would be considered a capital project in the policy that they wrote together but not but not in the charter but also an existing definition that the board of Finance has voted on and agreed to as part of their normal policies so you could certainly start with that definition also I happen to think that definition was a little low personally I would prefer it to be higher but that's a board of Finance ultimately I think that's a board of Finance decision where they think the line is between capital and operating or Capital needs that definition like when we got the Flor refinished that would have been a capital project the money speci two quick things before era to we we have to we're thankful that in the past they used their operational budget to do these things so that's that's a great thing so I I mean because there was money left over and they put it towards things that were needed and also that this fund was created is such a positive that's why what I can't take from some of these meetings is why we're dragging it down with the minutia when now we have it we just need a plan let's get them all prioritized and we're moving to that direction so it's so positive that the trust has to be there so we can get it off the ground thank you very has there been a number put for the bathrooms yet no not not a we're working to get
an estimate but roughly Scott we're looking at anywhere between 250 to 300,000 close to P it so Eric I'd like you to finish up your nickels worth here so it's a big project a you know doing the bathroom when we had this discussion last spring you know my take on it was the very first thing that needed to happen was you needed to find an MEP a civil engineer that specializes in mechanical electrical and plumbing systems I interviewed a couple of them we brought one out to give us an evaluation in the quote as far as I understand we could have executed that last spring and we could have done it with the money that the board of Selectmen agreed to take out of the building maintenance fund to fund it and not the capital fund well that is a capital fund just take it out of a different but the Board of Ed made the decision you wanted to find a different engineer so specifically to have someone who dealt with things that happen in schools and how specific understood understood it wasn't for like yeah a negative reason no and I I think that's one of the things the engineer said was there were some parts of that that he was uncomfortable with yeah because it was a school and that's why he was
subbing a lot of some of the design phase out to an architect so they covered that and that's fine and I think the town could still potentially cover the cost of the me as long as it's reasonable out of that fund and preserve the capital fund I think in and I don't know what a potential Surplus is for the school but presuming that there's a reasonable Surplus in the school's budget I don't see any reason why we can't as part of the normal budget process request additional money for that and you return a portion of the whatever you have left to that fund and have the cash on hand to do that next summer but if you're going to do that you need to execute right now with the MEP to give them long enough time to come up with the plan right you know and then it's going to go have to go out to RFP the other thing I don't understand and I don't know what the breakoff is but obviously the state has some funding available for schools for major Capital maintenance projects I don't know what's involved with that I was reading a school recently was planning on redoing all the roots of their schools and they were getting about 80% of that f funding from the state and 20% was coming out of their own coppers that sounds great to me but I don't know the rules for any of the school stuff I know you know what grants are available on the town side so
that would be something I would think you would want to pursue because if you can spend somebody else's money that's always better obviously it's going to be over the threshold that it will be a prevailing wage job you're going to have to deal with the Connecticut Council on human rights so it seems to me that's a big enough project you're going to need some construction oversight on it whether you hire a GC you know and have him do it but you got to start with the plan first and you're going to have to hire a professional to do it because that's too big to just have a plumber come up with a a plan for no no absolutely yeah yeah
so I know the last you takeway I wrote down from the last meeting was I think the Board of Ed would like to have agreement that they can put money from a preceding year into the capital plan budget without hurting them financially with future budgets I know you've gone off and worked hard Valerie on getting grants and you wanted to have that money used for the school yes does that when we've talked about this capital budget for the school thing do that does that resolve or is there still something Shannon's policy goes through the the board of Finance absolutely because the 103 that we had left from last year is in there the 100 that was asked of this 2425 budget from the town is in there the original 8,000 is in there so that's the 212 and then when this audit is finished Surplus we we would ask the board of Finance permission to put it in there from the year that they're finishing up now and then yes all of that money is money that we are looking
for the three priorities as s mentioned them so yes that's absolutely all we need the board of Finance to say is yep you're as soon as you have a number when the audit's done come to us and yep that would be where it would go because we know we have priorities and then as a project is approved by the board they would certainly go to the board of finance and say okay let's talk and I'm sure the board of Finance would say okay let's talk to CIP show us what you got here Bo to select me show us what you got and yeah because to point we we absolutely have already found
potential oversight umbrella companies contract companies CL was one of them that came and presented to the board because we are and we have that proposal they've already given it to them oversight because we are aware that we do need that so yeah the problem would be solved absolutely if when we have a number we're able to go to the board and like we used to with the 2% before the law change and say hey this what we have left okay with you we put it in here and you guys were to say yes that goes in there and then we can't take it out without information so the I'm trying to wrap this portion up but do you have the I know you submit lots of Grants and you've gotten lots of money for the betterman in school and I don't think any of them
have been for the state money for the schools that Eric was talking about for roots and buildings is that something you can do or is that something so when those come up and we're eligible absolutely those are when those come up and they're eligible those are ones that I would have to automatically sit down with the board of Selectmen before even the board of Finance because those State projects that money is different than most of the other grants that we get that one's more like what the town gets and there steep grants and Other M ipal grants where the actual application itself requires and the last time I found in this town it was done was when the septic was done back in the 90s in the back it was the same kind of thing you had to put together a council and the council had to include certain members of the board of Selectmen members of Finance there was a whole committee that had to be put together
those grants absolutely require that that is that anybody can do alone so so here's here's one of the things that I think I like the way the town has done recently if they started bragging about all the projects we're doing because we've got grants to do whether it's the bridge the the ball fields the the all that stuff we're saying we couldn't have done any of this stuff without and that's I think it would be advantageous to the school when they're talking about their budget to to somehow figure out how to do that same kind of thing but I but I know there's been a reluctance to show all the grant money we're bringing in because you think it's going to get cut out of the budget with you and if you're using it for good things with the capital stuff and that I I thinkes Jed were not as a result of
capital grants those have been few and far between on a school level I had I did apply for one that I worked with Eric in the town on which was a deep grant that didn't didn't go through but any of those capital I would absolutely have to go through them and and make sure that we fill that application out together but the other grants the other grants that come along none of them have been capital okay the the Surplus money is because of it taking care of other things that didn't need to come and I don't understand and don't want to understand the financial as the regulations that they go through that but I do think that the way ahead is to start on the next section of this where we listen to the board of bed or Celeste leaves in five minutes yes Sor she's
already given she's already given most of what she's got I know I I have a babysitter I'm sorry but I would like to move on to the next one with the board of on the Capal the root project that was done about six seven years ago was was state funded it was a c okay I'm just Jed real quick just pointing out jarry's had his hand up for a little while now so okay yeah good I just want to say I'm listening to everybody who's speaking and I hear a lot of agreement but I'm puzzled by we had put the agreement that everybody's agreeing to Shannon work with Robert for a long time hours to put together a policy or a road map call it what you will it's a road map to move from point A to point B why is it that road map was brought to the border of Selectmen and Rewritten by the town attorney that looked nothing like the original agreement the board of Finance is the one that said we agree with this we like it it was puty up and the bo of find said let's just make sure the town
attorney one attorney I know Town attorney just looks at it make sure it all looks good it's called and I guess from there is where it got a little okay you're well we just want to make sure that what we were doing and I think Boe agreed that's look at and make sure this is all legal that's where it is and I'll be really honest I don't remember sending it to the town attorney I didn't send it I don't who did was it you Shan I don't know who sent it to the attorney the draft that you and Robert created I thought it was sent by the board of Finance for was of fin sent I didn't I don't know if marked did I have we had agreed to it we liked it it might have you requested that that we sent it I I don't recall what's the next step the next step is because I guess I got the impression from you Jeff that like the board of Selectmen is not doesn't want this is not I'm only one I'm only one
member I I know M I know I would tell you I was never in favor of it we were never consulted in the initial stages of it and I would have gone through the same issues again we have a process in place we can all work together if you try if you don't try you can put this policy in place and and there will be members of my board that will vote for that policy I would not be one of them so I'm just telling you we have a way to do it it it has worked in the past if we work together can we make a good faith effort to try to use the existing policy
and if it doesn't work then we'll go you know and I'm certainly not the guy who's going to figure out whether it works or not the way that he's saying to do it so we go to CIP which we're not required to do but we can as a board say we're gonna go to CIP okay and then they go to the board of Selectmen and then the board of Selectmen goes to the board of Finance right that's what listen I Celeste I could get together with you in five minutes and come up with a plan to sit there and say okay this is what we're gonna present to you I it's got out it's got out of [Music] control okay but but the first step might be to try that process because we didn't we didn't know what it was a while ago now we're starting to figure it out I think it it sounds pretty reasonable to me and if it doesn't work then we can you know modify a little bit so what so I mean and not to cut you off J I'm sorry but I mean I've given you you know the the top three it's the bathrooms it's the elevator and it's the driveway so what what more I guess what more information do you need or do you need to move things forward I think the first thing is just how much going to cost how how are we going to fund as the board of Finance how so much money Rec curring fund what more money are we going to need and how are
we going to raise it is going to be taxation or air have wayt figure how say earlier you just your priorities so when does Finance need that information I guess if we want to get this project done this year I guess we need it as soon as possible we need do it someone Point earlier we got I think Eric said we got to get the MP we got to get the RFP has to go out to RFP we got then we need a range a range what we need is I'm going to give you you're not going to give us a final just a range and if the range is $350,000 and we can get it done for 310
the town is better on right you just you just sit there and you got to get a range what's that but you have ranges but when does it need to be to support the accelerated budget process that we kind of created needs to be part of the accelerated budget now yeah put the budget together over the next three four months so I would think the first step would be get the budget for the bathroom that was the top of your list and if you can't we have that how about the elevator we don't have any but we have we have like guesstimate okay that's but but that's what a capital plan is is a guesstimate it's just it's just here are here are the things that we see coming down the road that we have to plan for as a community that's it that's all it is yeah I think you know the answer to the driveway yeah but but even the driveway and I would sit there and go the driveway we probably as a town are not just going to want to pave
that driveway we don't to want to pay the whole lower parking lot and the rest of the parking lot for the the town hall that didn't get done and maybe even the the the fire the basketball court it has a giant all of those things should get rolled into what are the overall priorities for and so the way I see this going forward is that Shannon is member of the capital Improvement plan takes those priorities and meets with these other people and hopefully we get consensus on this will work so get this get this information to you Shannon and then Shannon presents it well I can put together that's all I'm saying you know the head I don't want do that ton that but here's the opportunity I think after we get I think we've just done 6A which is identify major items that affect future costs in the 25 26 budget year you'd like all three of those in there they might not all three make it but we know your priorities and then you start looking at the next 3 to five
years you don't have that tonight so there's nothing to brief like you'll start thinking about those things so we can figure it out now you're going to have to leave but the rest of the stay here and listen to the town when when we get go and I think I think it's going be easy now yes it's G to get hard in the future when the when the grand budget starts going up again we need to practice it why it's easy right thank you everyone I appreciate it thank you Jeff thank you Phil thank you anything else I was just gonna say that this s brought this pling project to CIP back in March okay of this year so that's already gone to CIP now we've just got to keep moving with everything else remember that Celeste I'm sorry I'm sorry one more time you you went to cing to C with this project yes I did and U that it was to go and get the U MP y right and C approv getting so we approved that so now we got to keep moving with the rest of it right right right so that part of the process has been done already so is there anything else about the budget priorities for the Board of Education that anyway on the board of education would like to share at this point before we go on to the T pres so when I had written that in the agenda I didn't necessarily mean capital projects but I don't know I I thought
you guys wanted an overview of like what the percent budgetary increase is or what things are driving major changes we thought we touch B on the budget process we're all together you know what are you anticipating as a percentage increase I'm not the person that answer that question we don't have a number yet however I can speak to some of the things that you'll anticipate real quick I mean the good news is I don't have as many needs as I know the town did last year because I know that 16 Hur I promise it's not 16 so that's good because I know that one was tough last year with the needs that the town had but we are expanding and we've been expanding you know slowly few kids here and there for the past five years thank goodness the question on there was where do we anticipate demographically in the next half years normally preco it was NASDAQ numbers and that was pretty easy it was you know very very easy to look I know you
know we have that through RAM and so they were able to predict he Bernando or marbor and those numbers are not as accurate for this year because of some of the changes that have happened for us in terms of people moving in to town bandov no this chair is actually easier so so we are growing each year now Now by 10 to 15 kids this year with the exception it was more than that and that was because we opened that for PR school with that necessity good news is you'll see babies all over town and our preschool will continue to maintain 60 to 62 kids religiously now because if we fall a few kids short it's absolutely going to be filled in that prek program with our neighbors from he and Mar so that's not issue that program itself you'll notice this year we're not going to have to put it and it hasn't been in the five years I've been in here in the
general fund it's still sub which is great so you won't see any increases due to the increase in preschool so that's wonderful we're talking about now let's see when I got here we had 174 kids we're at 243 44 kids we've grown by at least two full classroom 60 to 70 kids we can see the difference there which is fantastic when we look at the growth numbers for the next couple of years we anticipate again 10 to 15 kids growth minimum we know that people within this building are putting in for houses and if you know anybody in town that sells houses they can tell you that most people have lost bids now Rosemary poor Rosemary here one of her children has been looking for a house in hand open for a while and today they realized that they lost the 11th big for a house here so that's all great news the houses are selling like hot cakes for more than their advertised course so when we demographic numbers that's where we are we have tried to allow those classes to explode because we were kind of between numbers there I know if you go back to 2010 I'll give you a packet when we get to the budget from 2008 till now in terms of class size and numbers and things like that but when you look at the demographics there we have have you know let the classes get as big as we could could possibly let them legally even yet so third grade for example this year has 36 kids in it and so there's just no way next year to
go to one fourth grade class that's against the B so we will have to add an additional fourth grade class to accommodate that one after the start of the school year this year are fourth grade balloons to 27 kids which everybody holds their breath because nowhere ever I've gone back to the year 2000 and there's no way ever that the class sizes here are higher than 20 you know I mean it just wasn't and so the 27 thankfully we have a fairly new teacher who she doesn't know any different so it's wonderful because she's never had those classes of 15 so she's fantastic teacher and the needs of the kids in that class with the exception of just a couple were reasonable because that always denotes class size as well for example
hypothetically you couldn't have a class of even 16 if seven of them were students that that were diagnosed with autism that would be unreasonable but you could have a class of 17 or 18 kids if in fact there are no high needs kids in that class easily so that also plays a factor in it we're up to 26 kids in fifth grade and so those upper classes the 10 new kids that came in this year were not all prepay K we got a large number of last minute you know fourth and fifth and sixth graders we can hold off one more year on Sixth it'll be big next year that one will be 2 What till 27 27th but we definitely legally have to have a new fourth grade class and Fifth and keep in mind as we get back to the Heyday of the F the the time period when we had at least three classes per grade here that also means that the reductions that were made to specials over the years are going to have to go up a little bit and so we'll keep those schedules as tight as possible no extra time but for example we have an art teacher that had been dropped to three days a week over the past few years because our classes there were less classes to teach art to we will need to make that one four days next year otherwise the art teacher won't be able to see all the classes
the other part-time is Spanish we had dropped that down to two mornings that was a point two so that was technically one day a week that'll have to be two days a week next year or we can't get those CL classes in as well and Library the same thing we had years ago reduced that down to6 so that'll go to point8 so total it's 3.1 is the number of FTE that we need so three full teachers and A.1 INE as an increase yeah so that would be oh and we had dropped we have for intervention we have our reading specialist full-time we've had that for a while we've never been able to waiver on that one because of the needs of the students but we only have the halftime math interventionist and so we do need the other part is the the math intervention so a halftime math interventionist which we're going to try to work with the best we can the part-time staff that we already have existing here making them full-time or closer to full-time from the point 6 to point8 so ultimately it'll be the two new classroom teachers for grade four
and for grade five so that's what we're looking at there when we take the new contracts for theer and the noner and build that in we are not finished yet we're working on it diligently but once all those numbers are able to be given to the board of ed at the next meeting not the one this next week then I mean as I said we're not looking at 16 I would estimate the number by the way brought one other thing the number for the benefits the Consortium that we all share Heber and over marbor Boards of Ed town of and ahm the number that they have us as a placeholder right now
with the insurance Consortium is 9% we will meet again two more times before we have to bring our budget to guys I know but keep in mind we say 9% the one advantage is we are still and this would be why we're still way better off as a self-insured Consortium is we are looking at 9% increase in premiums from this now remember I have another district and I work with lots of other districts most other District's consortiums may be looking at 9% 9% increase from this because our insurance Consortium is very successful and we pay less as a Consortium than a lot of other districts do or in other Consortium that that 9% increase that's the same for town oh absolutely right it
would be I'd be giving that number to Eric too yeah I mean whatever my number is for percentage of increase for insurance of course we have way more people insured so the number itself is bigger but his percentage in the end is going to be the same as mine and Hein and Marboro and RAM everybody's number will be the same in the end are so are there any major like special ed increases to the budget for next not that we know of right now but we we have a couple of adjustments remember when that's a really good question when we look at all the IPS let's say of every kid we have in the district that's special at well we are doing right now is going okay so hypothetical kid number one has three hours a week of speech let's look at the new IEP for next year do they still have three hours of speech no they have six oh okay so now we have to factor in three more hours of speech at X number of whatever OT PT any student that would be outplaced any student that receives others so we're almost done with that as Taylor finishes with you know the meetings with the special ed director and families of kind of knowing where we are we don't haate anticipate any dramatic increases and changes we also have to look at the students that attend Charter magnet schools because Magnet School tuition comes through my my budget as well so if somebody who resides in Andover has children that attend a magnet school we get the bill and that you there's a line item in there for that so we did just
find out but I think we still be okay we did just find out that there was an anal resident that enrolled a kindergartener in magnet school and we got the bill we're like who's this even this is you just get the bill so the good news is we'll get all the fine-tuning of the budget things like I know that we're going to have me you're good at you really know your stuff and you but we're going to have meetings you know we're gonna go through the if you're looking for a rough percentage right now I would say that it's going to be someplace between 6.7 and N no so remember we did just settle two new contracts so if you're looking you know at what that number looks like with our budget we can figure it out I know right now if I'm I'm being very honest that I hate
throwing numbers out especially if people are writing them down but I mean I want to be as open and transparent as I can with you I I see that number probably being in the the the low to mid 300s because you figure there's two full St time sta as well so we appreciate it we don't this this meeting no but it's good we're here together yeah and just the major factors that we're going to in in overview so that's good so that because if you look at that that right there the new staff that we would need to accommodate the the increase right there I mean that in my head I'm trying to figure it out that's right there that's where you're like 4.9 5% is right there well it's unbelievable that you could have 27 or 26 students in
a classroom and they're doing it this year they are so that teacher that is that is not the impression of the taxpayer in the town the taxpayer in the town think you got 15 people or every single one of our agendas the topend every agenda pack they see it yeah so yeah there's a couple of quite large classes there those are you know so that that covers demographic projections for the next three to five years big we got lot of babies which kind of flies in the face of the state population projections that we're required to use for so many things you know we're we're defying the trend what what's the current number the trend well3 what is that 243 what oh 17 inclusive of all grades every child responsible for every child and when you stated 174 was your starting point that was before all the pre no 174 five years ago when I was hired was inclusive of all of the students I was resp no no no I understand that what I'm asking that included prek was there a prek program if a school district has pre when do you look at their enrollment numbers in there I just wanted to know that's a 60
some OD difference I just want to know PR F Day prek program started in 200 six or seven years ago it was 2016 because my son was in the first class that was the full day so the good thing is you know Apples to Apples when you're looking at enrollment summaries for every school district if they have a full-time preschool program it's a November so if they tell you they have 400 kids all the preschool numbers are there but can I just say y the preschool numbers here two years ago were only like 30 35 students y so the preschool is supposed to run fiscally independently financially right it does so that 60 or 61 kids is not indicative what is K through six pre through six is I'm just saying that are you you're asking what percent of those are from Andover versus from outside towns well I'm saying that the preschool program has grown loops and Bounds I think bigger than necessarily the K through six which you agree percent Liz you are absolutely right p through six we're getting 10 to 12 kids per year new we had 11 this year in K through six so far it's December so 10 above what you had last year so last year now it's 30 correct of the kids K so the number that you the chart you sent me in the email the other day by added up the columns the K through six classes currently versus next year is actually a net negative one no oh well it might be you know why because kindergarteners are going to vary from year to year so we know how many kindergarteners are coming in that we know of and that have not gone to
preschool here that will be coming in next year and so that's why I'm saying the k6 number we estimate is could be 10 to 15 we don't know because we had 11 this year with six of them in grades three four five and six or seven of them how many of them six I'm just comparing the numbers well you put that you put you can't go Kindergarten because some of those kids don't exist on there yet okay they they don't exist on there yet because if they didn't go to preschool here and we know they're coming next year they're in my next year projection numbers but they haven't appeared here yet okay so for example there's a few kids that tried preschool and said no I'm not going to send them to preschool but they're aging into kindergarten next year so they're already on my list for Kindergarten for next year okay so so they're not part of our current prek number but they will be part of our K number next year this the 60 children that are in the pek program how many of them are Andover residents this year currently are Andover responsibility there's there's nine kids that took out of town spots I can tell you that there's nine kids 51 going progress into this school so for example without giving de demographic information away about certain people but hypothetically if there is a person in this building that works here that is attempting to hypothetically attempting to live here and their children are in there we
don't know if their numbers yet will be part of kindergarten that are in preschool but they're in our AES numbers right now and not our out of town numbers also mixe preschool so just keep in mind we have one two and three year preschoolers oh so I trying to thinking next year we got 51 cut off right so now cember that have been in there for years gotta so we have for example one out of toer who this is their third year with us they were with us before we even because they didn't have a spot they came in as when before we had four classes so but they'll be gone at the end of this year they'll go to kindergarten in in the T that they live in next door so but yes so it's like a threeyear rotation for some of those kids yes as opposed to like 60 new kidart kids coming right and so that's the tough part bill is not only making sure that we know those kids the
ones that we know that live in town like I I get some of these numbers from Carol some of the ones that live in town that haven't told us they live in town yet because if somebody moves in tomorrow and they have a child that's going to either go to preschool or kindergarten next year and we don't know we won't know until enrollment happens and they may enroll August yes yes sometimes that happens in August so that's the difficulty of those two low grades but everybody else we know unless they move in so our numbers are pretty solid for let's say 1 through 6th unless unless somebody moves in or out we're very very solid with our numbers for one through six the other ones prek will always be the 60 because we know we can fill those kids outside and that's why I know it'll be self-sufficient because we know what tuition is and I know my grant is the Smart Start School Readiness GRS so that one will remain self-sufficient any other questions for Valerie before we go on to a different topic okay I know I missed one here and that was important just like a a rundown of the the changes that I want to get to the school part before left but so did you want to talk to the new budget process for the town Charter well that's not me but I was hoping either Eric or Jeff could just tell us quickly like where you thought the charter because I
know you were involved in in making those changes we talked about it at the big meeting but well the voters voted on the changes just so are we still waiting for the town attorney and like like for them to decide what that ends up being there there's the wording I mean it's basically because let's go from the budget process the one thing that didn't pass from the budget process was a quorum for the meeting so we have to have 25 people go to the town meeting so what's going to end up happening is the budget timeline is going to be pushed up so we can coordinate with the ram referendum right so we will only have one budget and first budget referendum in the town of and for both the town budget and the ram budget so it is pushing it up four weeks there so the townwide budget referendum and RAM referend will be May 6th the annual Town budget meeting would be April 9th so we have to have everything done April 9th which is basically almost a month in advance of what we done in the past hopefully it doesn't get any more cumbersome than than making some decisions earlier that way you know we're just going to go through the same process that we've gone through in the past just four weeks earlier and we talked about having combination meetings too was that part
of the the charger changes too I think that was just meant so that we got together and talked about what was going to happen they're doing right now yeah but we I don't I used to always attend all of your meetings knew so I don't mind that part if we're right if we're gonna have a meeting to get together okay so that yeah I just wanted a quick overview of that but I mean it's still will be basically the process from the town side is Eric puts together the budget we give him our priorities he then goes back and refines it to sit there and say we're trying to do things so last year what we did was the new community set C was coming online we tried we wanted to put in a community center director a senior center director to sit there and make as best use of that space as we possibly could so that was our that was pretty much our largest transaction for last year that we we pushed forward so reality is the town budget is is fairly and we have not pushed for any significant increases in numbers of
years I mean last year was probably the largest that you've seen come out of our budget cycles for six years I don't necessarily know if there's anything significant on the agenda for for the next budget cycle coming up unless you aware of no I mean the there if you look at the major cost drivers we're going to be paying less for diesel and heating fuel this year rather than last which is not a huge line item but it helps we're going to be paying a little bit more for electricity but in terms of major projects The Bunker Hill bridge that is cost neutral that is fully funded the problem is we probably really should pursue a bank line of credit so that we have swing funding because there's a Time gap between when we owe the contractors the money and when we get reimbursed by the state and federal government we voted for
that right but can I get you to come over here because you're going into your own little section here and I think you won't pick you up where you are doesn't like you there yeah he doesn't like us down here either but do you guys not Aline currently no we don't you don't at all no okay so we will need pursue a line of credit that does technically take a town meeting that is not something the board of Finance or Board of Selectmen has the authority to authorize on their own so that's going to have to happen sometime sooner rather than later the other large project will be the repair or replacement of the bridge Culver on Lake Road at Bola this next budget cycle if we continue to fund the bridge and Culvert fund that one will be fully funded that's half paid for by the state half paid for by the town after that we got somewhere around a six or S million backlog in mediumsized Culbertson of stuff we're going to have to address in the next 10 or 15 years but for right now we're focusing on Lake Road so can those be capital projects oh yeah okay just we we talked about feeling coverts and you know stuff it's got to it's it's got to be integrated for the best of the Town y thank other large projects the community center fit out we did get an arpa Senior Center specific Grant we need to allocate the money for that at the next Board of selectman meeting because we have to do it by the end of the year we have a little bit left in
our existing arpa funds that we'll spend out both of those will be spent on outfitting the kitchen at the community center we are still awaiting word about whether we will get a federal legislative appropriation that will fund the generator in finishing the the first floor of that building it made it through the Senate Appropriations Committee but given the political climate I've been told that that's a lot of those will not get funded so we may or may not get that we won't know till the earliest March now apparently they said that's when the earliest they think there'll be a budget pass it was supposed to be passed in October but they never come out on time the route 316 multi-use pathway that is still still in the design phase between initial design money and construction money we've secured about $2.9 million in total funding we're still missing somewhere around $100,000 to finish the design so that's going to have to be something that the board of Finance considers but look at it on the bright side we still will have funded 97% of the cost
so that's pretty good that's it we're not looking at any other major Personnel changes we are so you are all aware losing our resent state trooper in about two weeks you say losing he's going to be replaced or losing no he will be so we will we should know within the next week who the temporary replace M OB the state police has already put out the notice of availability unfortunately we don't have a lot of choice in who they assigned to us as resident state troopers but resident state trooper positions are really good gigs for police officers so I've certainly already had multiple people police officers approach me and ask me questions about the town of Andover that are clearly going to apply for the job so the uncertainty with that is
until you know the seniority of the trooper assigned you have no idea what the cost structure is and that can be a plus or minus 30 or $40,000 depending on their because what we pay for is we pay a salary plus a set amount of indirect costs that's associated with that position for you know vehicle and equipment and you know all that stuff so I don't know when we're going to know that even as soon as a trooper is assigned we should be able to make a reasonable estimate as to what what our cost basis will be but that's do you not know do you not know what that trooper's status is or or years of service is prior to interview or prior to making the offer well see we don't get to make the offer contract with the state police and the state police assign us a resent State actually we actually have zero say in who we get as the temporary person or as either the tempor or the per once they assign it then we know wow so nice when we went from for those who you knew who knew darl T darl trro was a very senior by the time he he left here he went to another town was immediately promoted to a sergeant got promoted to a lieutenant now he is running basically four of the the troops in the eastern half of the country so he's said he went from Andover to being a police
captain in about a year because he was a very very senior guy when we transitioned to Sebastian it was about a $440,000 savings versus the trooper we had so until we know what that is that's a variable cost I don't really know that so the the other thing that we all have to be aware of is that there have been a couple things that are going to that are going to affect the grand list and the grand list is likely to be flat hopefully not actually decreasing there's not a ton of residential development in the town the there's a state law that exempts a series of disabled seniors in the cost of their home so ABD to that will come off the tax roles and then the state has revamped the way Motor Vehicles are evaluated to basically an MSRP plus a depreciation schedule it looks like that's going to decrease our motor vehicle Grand list but until we get the actual list from the state we don't really know so for the first time in a while most years we have a couple percent between a 1 and a half and 2 and a half% cushion where we can increase our total budget by 2 and a half% and keep the mill rate flat right now any increase in our budget is likely to make the mill rate dog if you look at it historically anytime the mill rate goes up more than 3% roughly the town has a problem so we are going to face some some headwinds overall that's it unless you got what about what about the veterans execution what about how much is that going to impact the top we don't know and we won't even know when the budget
is passed because the law allows you to even 6 months after the budget cycle is started to present your paperwork it be given the credit that's retroactive so it is a something that the legislature has been asked to re address because the what the intention of the law in in the actual language are two very different things and the projection that the state legislature had for what the actual cost to municipalities was off about fourfold so it's impacting towns a lot more than the state assured the towns would when they were thinking about this as a hypothetical so I can plan on no property tax yeah is it an exemption or reduction you're not disabled yet you walk the lake every day did any other questions for yeah the projected new business that's coming into town is that going to have a good effect hopefully what business are we talking about the restaurant the restaurant the restaurant chines restaurant oh that's pretty minimal because the the building is already taxed so you're you're really just getting an additional tax on the personal property that is owned by the business so that's going to be fairly
minimal minim we'll get a little bit because some of the cell towers have upgraded antennas and stuff like that so we'll get we'll see a little bit of an increase for that but again not big there's no other real commercial development that I know of and yeah and we've taken yeah that I want to say something but I won Eric when you spoke on the grand l so that FS into count homes that have sold increased value and also the deduction that you talked about with the disable or the correct that's it's it's got of net out you're thinking yeah I think the grand list is likely to decrease or be flat yeah because well have to wait for re right the evaluation year the fact that that houses are worth more this year than they were last year doesn't matter we reow on a fiveyear schedule so 2026 you'll see the next reow when the assessments will change yeah other than Things That Go scary the way prices are going up it's a good thing for the no that's good any other questions for Eric I have question still three school buses or four do we know yet if the increase with the number of kids stays just with the preschool will be able to stay with great if the new enrollment of students is K because they don't take the bus if they're K to six then we would have to do for so when will we know whether
we're budgeting for poor we will keep well that thing is like we kept four in this year not knowing but I'm glad we did because then we wound up with transportation that was special for multiple students with the van that we have through the town we would have been able to fund that otherwise right what we didn't do is we didn't what I need to know is how much I need to account for diesel because the fourth bus jumps that fairly for right now I would say keep it where it is for diesel because if we keep our number where it is right now in terms of the bus that will accommodate those two other runs that we have with the other students in the town vehicle and it's it's you have that number it's the same diesel we use this year with our current so I would keep it with it is Eric well the number we used this year in last year well yeah because remember the contract that we have with you guys now for those additional students that we use the town vehicle for wasn't in the budget right so it's coming out of that line where that additional fourth bus that I'm not currently using is that's on your side but that's on your side what I'm say diesel cost we're
using they get charged the diesel and they send us a bill keep that where it is now with the same number of of gallons but we we charge you what you use right that's what he's trying to get to us exactly where we are right now do not plan for additional bu okay so I'd like to move on to the board of Finance section here and Joan are you talking to that I mean we wanted to just have this meeting be an overview of things we know that we're going to get into the nuts and bolts of the budgeting and the expectations as we go along that's why I wanted to talk to you know about the charter changes and everything as far as timelines I'm thinking I don't know if my fellow board members agree but we have a December meeting coming up I think we're probably going to take some input to those of us that are present here we'll have to share you know Kim is there and and probably maybe send out a memo or an email I don't think you know we probably just the timelines and things that we've discussed with Eric at our last meeting as well as to when we want to have them
presented or you know talk about the major factors so I think we're in good shape I don't think it's really I know the fending targets was on here we've already been told that the budgets are rising you know so so it's probably unfair at this point to stay try to keep it to 2 or 3% we're probably just going to have to do a lot of work when we're in those budget meetings we had that discussion at our last meeting we just felt it wasn't appropriate for us to come up with a number coming into this meeting without hearing everything that told us Eric just told us we just want to reserve the right to discuss at our next meeting with information rather than just taking us scab so that's kind of where we left it I think de yeah yeah make it for that yeah so little preim premature to do the expectations
so we certainly will get them out to everyone and then we're going to have to come up with you know I think we'll have a joint meeting Eric you said with the board of Selectmen I believe at some point and I know there were dates I think there were seven joint no I think all we need to have is one for the charter right well this and this could suffice last that's what I thought the charter rision heard the charter we're supposed to have one initial meeting prior to October 45 well we knew we couldn't do that to layout Budget prior ities obviously that's not going to happen not for this current year at that it what the charter says is quote the board of Finance may suggest Target expenditures for General government and board of education but it is not binding initial discussion of capital projects for upcoming year so in my mind that means that me as the town will have had
to have presented the updated Capital plans to CIP prior to you know that meeting in October that way it can go you know at that point we have an initial you know essentially Town Capital plan which is pretty early I am anticipating that February 3rd I will have a fully fleshed out draft budget work work book avail able for the town General budget and the capital budget for the board of finance and board of Selectmen review and how you want to do joint meetings when you want to start them that is up to you the charter says in the month of March there will be joint meetings between the board of finance and board of it'll be March I think right that's what we usually do is like just bunch of them in a row and just like okay CH to you give it to us on February 3r when we have a chance to review it and
then well the way the way it's worked or it should it should work now that we have a Time administrator prepares the budget we tell him he gives it to us preliminary we tell him if there's things that we want him to add or subtract yeah and then it goes to the board of finance and get you picked apart I mean no it's honest it's it's trueth what happen I mean like last year I mean it's not a negative it's just how it is process it's the process I mean and once it gets past us right you know comes to us foreview comes to you for review and and what you decide and what the board of Finance votes goes to the time yeah so can I ask for the capital stuff for the school that we briefly touched on you want something in writing I understand you guys want that as soon as possible when do you need that by well February no no no what she was asking was it was should have been once
you have your fiveyear Capital plan you would update it for every October right I understand that we're not there right now our plan for like for this year until June was to have a fiveyear plan the bathroom just get us the quote what you want to sit there and do it and then we're GNA sit there and wrap that into the capital plan and budget that's presented back to the plenty of time for this year of just a quote on the project okay any other questions for the finance I'm going to move on to correspondence I'm not aware of any anybody have corresponded for tonight in that case I thought we had somebody from the before we talk about a German i' just like to say I think this meeting was productive and I think that when we had this Capital plan you know if anybody sees that it's got something other than b elevators and driveways from the school you know we should say where' that come from you know and try to to find out because Cel was pretty clear that's what she was looking for there same thing with with the talent I hope they put more than those three things out there it's land it's it's like it's got to be funded so it's things that the board of education is seeing within the building that need to be repaired so if you only come with those three things right now right start think about those longterm we can get through this year's budget with the information we know right now exactly and then they will they already are working they said that's part of their yeah their goals this year to work
on it and they are and to to use another Steven cvy quote kind like stepen Cy seven habits highly affects some people you seek first to understand and then be understood everybody here I think is doing a great job you know trying to do their stuff and and we sometimes we don't listen to the other person to try and understand enough what they're coming from and I always find that very helpful and I learn a lot that way so suggest that can I appreciate the opportunity to get together with you all tonight hear what's going on with you good job
question and I know this was brought up when we had this meeting last year and I had suggested SL recommended I I think that this type of meeting should happen more than once a year I don't know what other people's thoughts and feelings are on that I know last year we talked about it and then well life gets busy we should I don't think it was maybe we should have a cocktail exactly exactly I am 100% with you we should them no we need to we need to we're not done we have a journey I will say this for the public it doesn't matter we need to understand each other as people and understand what we're all dealing with exactly and you know it's it's a lot easier if I know you and I I understand you and you can come talk to me I'm all for I see Eric on my walks he's the guy I see I know he takes his kids and rides the Bike to School winter I do I mean it's how it is Jed walks all the time and usually brings rain but better it's better that do things to look like to plan to a meeting of in this after
with that would be J or something long as J is the moderator we're and with that I'm looking for motion toour okay okay all in favor I any opposed okay thank very much everybody