Is Kim not coming?
Kim's here.
Oh, where? Oh. Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
Okay. right then. So, this is our second joint border select man board of finance meeting for February 25th. We're going to do start with the pledge of allegiance. It's 6:02 p.m.
Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God,
indivisible, liberty and justice for all.
Okay. Thank you. So, we will start with public speak. I'll go around real quick. members of the public that are on, we've got Joanne Heert.
Hey Rob, just listening. Thank you.
No problemmo. oh, and we have Nick now. That's good.
Dennis, I see that you're on. yes. I don't know if you count as a member of the public exactly, but
Oh, probably a member of the public. Yeah, among many other things, Rob. But I am I'm also the town attorney, of course.
Yes, that's what I was referring to. So, do you have any public comment?
Yeah, I do. I mean, I I was, you know, I attended your meeting last week and I I did say in a letter that I wrote to, oh, all three boards, including and and the superintendent of schools and, yeah, well, Jeff is a member of the other of the board of selectmen that I plan to come this week and talk a little bit about what I've been saying about how the board of finance should be handling the education budget. And I am convinced beyond a doubt after researching it, considering it, considering my experience with several towns, I have never heard of a board of finance just passing a budget, a education budget on to a town meeting. And I don't I don't believe that I'm not saying that you have to cut it. I'm saying that you you you can cut it. You can adjust it. You can up adjust it upward, but but to just pass it on, you I mean, you have in the past always voted, but you have voted at times to just adopt whatever the board of ed education suggested. I'm just saying to you that you have the authority to cut the education budget before it goes to town meeting. You are a guardrail. You are experts on finance, relatively speaking, to the the rest of the town. the statute that covers if you didn't have a charter, you would be governed by 7-344. and that because you have a unitary budget. It's a it starts out that way. You can you can bifrocate it if it goes
something goes wrong, but it starts out as a unitary budget. Unitary budget is governed by 802F. you cited 80 Rob when you decided that that statute applies I mean that provision applies to the pub the public hearing you can send the you can you are to send the budget of the board of education to public hearing which is required you're required to have a public hearing you know that you can send that intact you don't you don't have to in fact you you're required by the charter to send it intact to not touch it but once Once the public hearing is over, you then, you know, need to send it to town meeting. And when you send it to town meeting, you have the option to vote for it as is up or down. That's all I'm saying. I've said it now in 13 pages and three separate letters in in in several different ways. But it is my opinion
that if it if if a if it ever and hope hopefully it will never happen where you have a dispute between agencies that ends up in court because it does happen in other towns, not over things like this. I I don't know of any judge that would ever rule in favor of you saying that you you cannot cut the board of education budget. One of the roles that you have as as a board of finance is to comp decide among competing interests for the town and you need to have a fair a level playing field and
if you're not if you're if you feel you cannot adjust the board of education budget say downward for example and you but you do adjust the town hall budget downward that's not a fair playing field and the and and and the and the statute and the and the if you look at the section 802 of the charter, it's a progression. It starts out with u back in the fall where you have these discussions about the budgets and then it goes well bing bing bing bing all the way down to E and F and you you you relied on E. E is for the public hearing. F is what you do when you put
the bu budget to the town meeting. And that is it's up to you what to do with it. You can cut it, you can raise it, you can keep it the same. But you I heard Mark your former chairman last year. I was sitting at the town meeting and when I heard him say that I I was like stunned that that you you did not have to act on the budget. Well, you have to act on and you always have acted on it, but you need to know that you can act on it and you can increase it or you can cut it before you send it to the town meeting. That is the way it's done in every town I've ever been in and I've been in a lot of them. And it's it's it it makes sense because that is what the law requires. and and you're because you have a charter, you can have your own system, but and and you could you could do that, but you don't the language of your charter in section 802F requires you or allows you doesn't require you, but it but it allows you to to cut the education budget before it goes to before it goes to town meeting or to increase it or leave it the same. But you have that option. It is not an automatic, oh, we passed this budget on to the town meeting just as it's as it comes from the BOE. That's when you that's when you play
your role as the guardrail. And that's what that's what that's what 7-344, which is the law governing all towns that don't have charters, require. And also, you're in your charter and the language is not is not as clear as I'd like it to be. I didn't write it. It was It's been in there for ages. And I've been in I've been with the town for more than 22 23 years. We've we've made a lot of changes to the charter at the request of charter revision commissions, but that one never came up. And it's probably something where the language ought to be clarified. But after going over it and reading it and comparing it to state law and my experience, I am convinced absolutely that that section
of the charter 802 ends with a reference to town meeting and you can act on both budgets or all budgets that come before you up or down. Make recommendations and once it gets to town meeting, you've set the ceiling on the budgets. Okay? They can't and that's in the statute. It's also in in your charter. the the town meeting cannot raise as you know cannot raise the amount they can't cut and you know it happened last year when you when you the the in a different under a different section of the charter albeit and that was after the budget failed that referendum came back to you and a motion was made to cut the increase for the board of education from 8% to 5% and it passed and and and so And then it passed. I assume I didn't follow it all the way, but I think it passed that referendum. So,
yes, it it did. So, you know, so you got the 5% increase and and you know, that that is that is it as far as I'm concerned. And I I've read the opinion from the the attorney for the board of education. I just totally disagree with it. I've written a response to it. It's very short. It didn't have to be long. So I am going to I'm going to stop now. I think I've said what I need to say unless you have any questions.
No, I can only note that we have dueling legal opinions in front of us. beyond that, I'm very clear on your position, Dennis.
Thank you, sir. Ben, thank you for the time and thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak and for everybody's giving me the attention. Thank you.
Okay. does anybody see any member of the public that I've missed? I don't see anyone in the list. I think that was it.
That's all I see.
Okay.
So, we will move on to our workshop.
Now, I don't know if all of you have, you know, seen the latest emails that have coming around. In fact, I need to double check that it went to everybody, but I finally do have a preliminary budget spreadsheet from the treasurer, which is helpful. So, thank you for that, Lisa. I really appreciate it. the right now it's got the the older RAM number in there. I I caught that when I saw it. We only just recently, I think today, got the updated levy number sorted out. It was either yesterday or today. So that has to be changed obviously and everyone should understand that that spreadsheet is preliminary a work in progress etc. so if anybody didn't get it let me just double check here. the Excel spreadsheet went to I think all of us. So we shouldn't I shouldn't need to email it around again but if somebody doesn't have it let me know. So we have that to look at which is great. so I guess my thought is one of the other piece of information that I have asked for that's kind of out there is
I'd like to know what are in our fund balances now all of all the various town funds so that when we look at capital and things like that we know where we're starting from. so that's another info request that's out there. but I guess I' my gut here is I'd also like to hear from the board of selectman members a little bit. I don't I don't feel like we got into it very much last meeting on what they what their vision is for the town operations budget, the town capital budgets that we have in front of us to review. You know, kind of maybe just the high points would be helpful to walk us through it. Obviously, right now, if I'm reading the spreadsheet correctly, we're looking at a on the town side, the ops budget of 4.3% increase for various reasons. And I did not have a chance to
go line by line. and I scrolled through it pretty quickly. you know, only having gotten it a couple hours ago. So,
does Hi,
I see the Excel version yet in my emails. Did it come to the board of selectman?
Let me double check. No, it's sorry. It's it's to the board of finance members and and Jeff's on Jeff CC, but none of the other board of selectman members have it. So, I can send that around.
That'd be great. Thank you. Now, I'm just going to tell you with everything that's happened in town with the weather and all of the transactions that Lisa and I have been trying to deal with, we the board of selectman hasn't even had a meeting. So, to be really honest, this has to sit there and get in front of the board of selectmen. So, Ann is not wrong that she hasn't received it. I've been working with Lisa to sit there and build a u summary of all of the positions within town to tie it to our payroll. And it's been slightly difficult in that there's no remote access into the information that is available. So, everything has to be done by getting to the town hall. And with the weather and
everything else that happened, it got a little of a little bit of a problem. So to be really honest, the board of finance is going to have to sit there and take that document as preliminary again until the board of selectmen can get together and meet.
Okay.
and I fully understand all of that. That's that's totally understandable. obviously, you know what I'm looking at? I'm looking at the the days ticking away and the calendar that we're that we have and the schedule that we have. Well, in my head, Rob, if if we can get the personnel side of this taken care of, that'll take that from the town side, we'll take and account for about 55 to 60% of the total budget. And then we'll be looking at the capital side of it, which will take up the other 40% of it. And then you just have a small fraction in the middle that we'll sit there and deal with. So you know you really have about 55% in salaries probably about another 30% in capital and then the rest will be the si
the small isolated items but as far as the employees go and the non unionuned employees the board of selectmen needs to sit there and get together and vote as to what increases we want to sit there and see for those positions. So, I apologize, but it's just something that with the transition. So, Jim, who's on here, everybody might as well say, thank you and, goodbye to Jim because he's be he's done on Thursday. so that position is going to be open. I will sit there and do what I can in my time to sit there and handle the that spot until the board of selectmen sits there and makes a decision as to what they're doing with the town administrator. So when they decide what they're doing there, we'll sit there and have someone else come into that chair. But what I plan to do with Lisa is sit there and work with her. Lisa's, like I said the last meeting, Lisa's great. She was in over the weekend. she hasn't got her laptop from the IT company. She can't sit there and work from home. So, she's got to be where she's at right now in the office so that she can sit there and answer any of your questions and have access into the accounting system and we will sit there and get it done and you guys will get the right information so that you can make decisions for the budget. Hope so. Go ahead.
is there any way that Jim can be extended?
Jim's moving to North Carolina, but Jim can answer that one.
I've already actually moved to North Carolina. I went down there on the 7th and then came back up to kind of close up shop up here and then finish the month for you guys.
Okay. Congratulations.
Thank you.
I do have to thank Jim. He's done a very good job representing the town. I wish he did a better job on our budget, but I won't take him to account for that. Right.
That's right.
Thank you, Jim.
We're going to miss you.
Appreciate it. Thank you.
Where are we in the process of replacement?
you're going to have to ask one of the other selectmen.
Okay. meeting on Friday with two more interviews. After that, we may have something.
Okay.
All right. So, in progress, but not imminent. in terms of the preliminary budget, one of the things I wanted to ask about, and obviously other members of the board of finance, you know, by all means, pipe up, but don't, you know, I'm not the only one to ask questions here, but h how are we feeling on the revenue side about the projections there? Have we looked, have those been really looked at, or are we just kind of plugging in last year's numbers for the most part? I see there's a small bump. but is like is the ECS grant money that's in there, is that likely to be the real number or is that maybe low? I think
that looks just like last year's number.
They haven't raised that number, which is one of our problems. They haven't raised the rate since 2013. It's a problem for the the states. It's problem for a small town like ours because we're not getting any additional assistance from the state with all the mandates that they're requiring. So that that number which is our biggest outside number isn't I don't expect it to change. You know one of the numbers that Lisa and I were talking about today is u interest the interest number that's on there is probably going to decrease. We have to sit there and make some adjustments to that and we have to sit there and see how we can improve that number if at all possible down the road. So
that's for like basically the stiff account.
Yep. stiff
account.
Now, just for you guys, for all your understanding, trying to get access to all these with the limited with the p previous treasurer limiting her access to us and her assistance to us has been difficult. So, we're still trying to sit there and get the Lisa access to that hasn't been easy. Okay. Well, I don't know if any of the members of my board have really had a chance to look at this thing. I have, as I said, only really had a chance to glance through it, kind of scan over it, look for any particularly eyepopping, you know, spots. A lot of this is kind of mandated 3% raises.
that that number has not has been not has been has not been approved by the board of selectman. that number is really consistent with the union contracts that we have out there that my goal is as discussions with the treasurer were today is to get you all of those contracts and everything related to the employee compensation that we have so that you guys so all the board members can have all of the contracts. of the cont previous contract from the administrator, the union contract. So you can follow along with what those raises the increases in the compensation are. So tax revenue appears to be plugged in just our last year's number. I would expect that to change a little bit, right? I mean, it creeps up here and there if we have houses built in town or
whatnot, right? Changes the grand list.
Supposedly, the assessor got our filings completed and we will at least have an understanding of what the grand list is supposed to be. So, that's coming next week.
Next week. Okay.
At least I hope so.
Okay.
I mean, Jim, that was what your understanding was, correct? Just so I'm clear, that was the email that you received before we left the office.
It would be filed tomorrow.
Okay.
Were there any decisions or changes made to staffing that will affect the budget at all? well, from my perspective, the only thing, Liz, that we really need to deal with is honestly the community center. So, the board of selectman needs to decide what they're going to do with contracts that are currently outstanding at the community center and what type of staffing levels that we're going to have there. Can I just add I thought we were going to discuss adding a 20our per week admin assistant for the incoming town administrator to
Yes.
for continuity in that office. We had we did discuss that and we were going to discuss it on January 29th but we never did have the meeting and then the meeting on February 4th was also cancelled. So maybe we can set up a meeting for this coming week so that we don't hinder the board of finance with the dates and everything defined by our charter.
Sure. And on that current document that you have 15 there's $15,000 y
in for the administrative assistant and plus there's another $15,000 in for a project manager.
I see those. So those might be consolidated and as to what Carol is discussing, they've been left there because as placeholders. but yeah, we probably do need to have a meeting. We're probably not going to have it this week because I know there's another meeting on the agenda for Friday and we'll have to figure out when the board of selectmen can actually get together.
That would be helpful. you know, just so you all are aware, you probably already know this, but I'll run through it real quick. on the 4th our next budget workshop meeting we will have presentations by the fire department and by AES and then on the 11th we have I believe public works coming in so and then we have the 18th and then we have the 25th and April 1st is the hearing so that's our time frame
can you say that again
from 3:18 Yeah, I think we just meet weekly throughout March, the 4th, the 11th, the 18th, and the 25th. yeah. And then,
please make sure you get together with Kate because I had looked at that. there's nothing on the calendar, the town calendar on the 4th.
The fourth, I emailed her literally tonight. I c somebody caught that, texted me, and I emailed her right away to say, "No, no, no. We're having a we're having a special virtual budget workshop meeting that night. Can we get it on the calendar?
Could we meet on Monday night, Jeff, if everyone is available? That would
put us that much further ahead.
please. I would I I would ask and and this is something that we need to talk about but later in the week because I still don't I I I am planning on being in that office tomorrow dealing with Jim to get everything situated for his his departure. And then I need to get some access to some other things Carol to be able to produce the what I need done. So Monday might be too soon is what I'm saying. So today's today's Wednesday. let me find out tomorrow. Carol, I'll actually sit there and text the group. Maybe I can sit there and get it done tomorrow.
I'm just saying rather than hinder the board of finance because again they're under
Listen, we're hindering
stressful timelines. I know we're hindering a lot. So we really need to move forward with this.
You guys, you love us. So
we're good.
No, I don't think they're going to love us if we continue doing things like this. I don't think anybody's going to love us. So,
but you know,
we you do what you can. Try your best. Try to you know, you know what our schedule is. You know what the time frames are.
I'm not trying to berate anybody. I know exactly how how, you know, discombobulated everything is. but I just bring it up because it's the obvious thing. so there's not a lot in the way of clarity. Typically with the board of finance in the past, we what we've tried to do once we have this spreadsheet in what we think is reasonable shape. you know, we usually try to take two meetings of ours where the entire time is spent just going through it line by line and typically in the past of course with the town administrator there to help us with questions. obviously that's not not looking like how it's going to go. but in the past we've discovered that if we tried to do the
whole document in one night, we were on a meeting until 11:30 p.m. and we were all fried and it wasn't actually very productive. So I am open depending on how this all comes together. We'll have to talk about this on the 4th and or 11th as to whether or not guys we want to try to put together another special workshop on like a Thursday or something to stick another meeting in there later in the later in March. So, just think about that.
Just think about like what your availability is, what what dates might work best for you. Thursdays tend to work for me. other days of the week other than Wednesdays get harder, but I'm I'm not going to rule them out. You know, if we have to do it, we have to do it because we, you know, either we hit the deadline or we don't. it's in the charter. We're we're bound by that. So, okay. So, you know, without laboring that, if any of our board members has, you know, questions or concerns about what we've been given so far in terms of our preliminary projection, by all means, pipe up. you know, not a lot here's jumping out. Jeff's already kind of addressed the fact that the staffing at the community center is is one of the things that's in flux. The and then Carol brought up, you know, the assistant to the administrator and obviously with the administrator position itself that is being bumped up in this preliminarily at least. but I, you know, there's a lot here that's just it's not stuff we can really dig into because it hasn't really been decided yet. This is this is just a first pass. I admit I'm a little unsure as to what we can productively discuss then further in this joint meeting if we don't have you know the boardman simply hasn't had the chance to make some of
these critical decisions
without without the payroll role summary, the staffing summary. You guys have a a you can go through certain items here and and well, let's actually talk about what we can do. So, out of the departments that are in that report,
who do you have appointment who do you have appointments scheduled with like from
fire and public works? Yeah,
fire public works and AES and we already had RAM.
Okay.
I'm trying to remember in the past whether we you know every single department came in regardless of size. I know we always did fire and public works.
Yeah.
so I was I've been going through it. So you have and and this is Lisa. Have you provided them the information like from the registars's office? you're on mute. You're on mute. You're on mute, Lisa.
Registers.
Sorry.
That's okay.
I see a registister's document. She sent today.
Okay. So, like there's certain groups that have have have come back to the treasurer. So the the registars was one. the resident state trooper is another. Animal control we can talk about and and go through some of this information to you know they're external groups. You know it's like that secondary stuff that's out there and then you guys can take the data and then ask the questions and we can go back to the groups and and get it done. So in in my view, you know, the board of assessment appeals, it's tiny, but they have actually provided the treasurer with information. and I don't know if you want to have them on it. Like one of the things Lisa was bringing up as a recommendation was that in the future, we just sit there and have these all scheduled out in advance on an agenda on a list. They're showing up for your board and they're doing these presentations for you on a given day. No more waiting around. And and listen, the whole thing in my head that's really been the problem is that Eric was in the chair all day all along fighting through these
numbers, giving you guys every piece of information you wanted, and we're at a slight disadvantage trying to circle back into this. So, we'll do it. and and Lisa, I don't know if you sent out to the board of finance members or or just to Rob the data that you had collected from those groups. I did send out the eight that we took copies of and labeled. So those of them those did go out to the board of finance today.
Okay.
I've got MURF registars assessment appeals state trooper animal control Eastern highlands health and ahm.
Yeah. And so each one of those you know like the state trooper the state trooper is you know a budget request of $163,816. there's nothing we can really do on that line item other than get a get a cheaper resident state trooper which I don't necessarily know that we can and we we have no authority over what happens at that position. So they've provided that data and then you know if you you go up there's information that we got from Crag that goes into line 4177 but we haven't gotten the CCM cost update or the cost update for the the there's two different organizations that we belong to. So we need so that number is down but that number is down just because we've only gotten one of the three organizations. you know insurance well the employee benefits most of the employee benefits line under 4117 will come through when we sit there and I I I have the ability to work with Lisa to get the payroll summary in front of the board of selectman board selectman determines the increases and then all of these numbers the social security the unemployment comp the health insurance the longevity will all fall out from there Lisa and I had conversation today about how to get all the data and and how to put it into an appropriate format for you guys to sit there and look at. And that, like I said, will take care of 55% of the total town operational
expenditures is payroll.
Lisa, I assume that you have to work off of an older version of the, you know, the budget spreadsheet that we've used in past years. tabs and the you know it has it has tabs and you feed across and you you know there's a tab for mill rate calculation there's a tab for this there's a tab for that I assume you have one of those
I did see a mill rate calculation in there the the problem that I saw if it's the one I'm thinking of is it's a quickbooks format and to me I have no no use for that honestly
I'm not sure if it's the one you're speaking of
no All right. I can I
She She has it. She just She She It was something that the two of us sat there and and looked at and we will sit there. What I was trying to do is assist to get a report to sit there and do all of the payroll stuff. The mill rate will sit there and have a separate tab for you as we build this out. So she she it is not the format that we're that we're looking at now is is something that Lisa brought and it's it's a very valuable format as to how we look at it. The details you guys need in a different way and I'm working with her to make sure that we get the details correctly organized for you. What she was really looking at is that spreadsheet the data was kicked out of QuickBooks, put into Excel, and then put into that Excel format. Rob, that's all she's after. It's it's just a a way to export data from QuickBooks.
Okay. You know, you know what I'm talking about though, Jeeoff, right? Like last year when when the year before and the year before and the year before we have the spreadsheet that the board of finance uses that you know ultimately we use to bring the budget to hearing and and whatnot and it's got many tabs and you know if it's going to be formatted slightly differently that's okay I just the reason I ask is right now what we have obviously lacks a bunch of that and I just wanted to be sure that you know Lisa had a comparison that she could look at here's how we've done it you Well, if there's a reason to tweak it, okay, what I mean is, has she seen say last year's budget spreadsheet?
Who who did the the answer the answer is I believe that I actually sent that to her today, Rob, to be really honest.
Right. so why she may not be and I have to look to make sure that I did that.
Okay.
That's I just wanted to be sure. I have one, but it's older and it was it was a draft.
Yes. last year from mid-March and I don't trust it.
So, so Lisa, Lisa, I sent it to you at 8:07 after I received it at 8:06. So,
this morning. So, the question that I have is who is responsible for the PowerPoint? I'm assuming that that was you, Rob, right? That's you.
It's it's typically, you know, last year Mark did it. I'm gonna I'm gonna lean on some of my members of my board to help me with it. But yeah, it's that's that's the Board of Finance chair's job.
Yeah. So, the So, the
which I'll need to get, by the way, a copy of an old one.
I think I have it. I think you have it, Liz. Okay. Because I'm not sure. I might have it, too. I actually back if I scroll back in my emails, Mark sent it around at one point.
Sure. Yeah.
I think I probably do have it. You're right. So,
so,
but, but obviously, you know, that's as much as that's good, you know, that's that's down my priority list at the moment, but yes, that's that's something that's, lurking in the background that we'll need to get done, too.
Yep. So, I'm thinking maybe one thing we can concentrate on right now would be the AHM the information that I sent out to everybody. I don't know if any chance. Okay.
I had no chance to look at I'm sorry. See, I just got it.
I get it. I get it. Okay. That's something maybe we can go ahead and maybe review it for the week on our own and then kind of come to a conclusion on it next week.
Sure. And I mean I have no you were there, right? So you know I know you sent us the the information but you could always
you know give us a little less on report if if you want. we can do that now. We could do that in our
you know regular meeting 7 o'clock. I don't care. The board of selectman might want to hear it. It's fine. you know the highlights at least
I just sent it to the board of finance because
this the way the you know it's it's hard to send everything to everybody because it's becomes a meeting per se. So and Jeff I didn't send that to you unfortunately but
always always include the treasurer on your emails.
Oh really? Okay.
Yeah. Just so she just so she has she has it if it relates to the budget. I mean because one of the things that we were discussing and I'm sorry Louisa but one of the things is you have the spreadsheet the spreadsheet is fine but the treasurer should be in control of the spreadsheet so that you know when you guys make adjustments and changes if you report to her and send her an email the next day she can then make those updates within the spreadsheet so that you at least have some consistency and there's no confusion as to who has the right one. So,
okay, this is more of a presentation for everyone to review to it's kind of the backup for I feel that it's a good organization and I wanted everyone to kind of read through it and kind of determine on their own if they feel as well and I sent out something just a little bit while ago because that's when I got it saying how much how many Andover participants have participated in it in the past two So, if everyone could have a chance to look at that.
Did you get an answer on that question?
I did. I sent that to everybody probably half hour ago.
Yeah, I'm looking at it now. this is the whole number of people served by year
24 25
asking for that. We'd be asking for that. And it shows like 2000 LA in the last year, the year before that was almost 2000, 1976. Right.
The only other thing I want to bring up with that if you want to talk about that is in the presentation I did ask about what options are available for AES because as of right now they're only using one and a half they only have one and a half days worth of a person there where in fact they could be using that facility. They could be using AHS a lot more, but they would have to set up an agreement between the two of them and that money would be actually need to come out of the board of education budget and I was thinking in lie of and after we listened to the presentation from AES and won't know until that in lie of maybe some extra monies that are needed to go towards the AES budget we can possibly do it using AHS instead is much cheaper.
Well, yeah, we're we don't know until we know what services they're able to provide, right? if there's any services that they can provide at a at a significant savings that
and they have in the past
and you know and if that is also you know meets the needs in full
right like are you saving you know that's that's something definitely to ask
the superintendent about
absolutely that's what I would I wanted to share
I see that the the spreadsheet we have for the town budget does appear to have the correct number in there for AHM. So that's good. I just matched it up.
Anything that I have information for is in your spreadsheet already. Everything that I have received, every department that sent me all of their wishes, it's all in that Excel spreadsheet. It really hasn't changed since last week,
right? Except for the RAM number, which we talked to,
right? Yep.
The RAM number that's in there is the old one.
Yep. So, I have I saved it to my drive and changed it, but
I'll leave it to you to change the proper one.
you know, it's not a it's a massive difference, but it's a it's a it's a drop, so that's nice.
What What is the correct RAM number?
The correct the total RAM levy.
Yep. this year is one moment. Let me scroll back up to it.
Yeah. And if you could say what line it's on so we can follow.
Yeah, that's I'm gonna I'm gonna get there. It's I I scroll and then I
RAM education 44
and the number that I have for combined the combined levy. So it's it's you know the ops budget plus the capital is 4,255,542. And I confirmed that today with Colin.
Say that again. 4 million.
4 million 255 542.
So it's a 2.9% increase now.
Yes.
Okay.
For our levy, their increase budget increase is 3.31, but yes.
Right. Yep.
Because we we dropped a little bit in terms of our enrollment.
Yep. Okay. So I see that number is not the same number as on this spreadsheet. Is that
right? Lisa hadn't gotten it. I I sent it to her. I realized it. I emailed her. She hadn't seen that and I passed on what Colin had sent me.
She's not sent you all the spreadsheets. So,
okay. All right. That's fine. It's It's close anyway.
yeah, it it drops it. It drops it a little bit.
That number we really can't debate, right? It is what it is.
Well, the town I mean it it is what it is. If it passes, the town has a referendum. the town, the three towns have a referendum and if it passes that then yeah, we're locked in. but obviously anybody can have their say on that in the referendum and the thing with the referendum is the votes are aggregated. So it's not like if two of the towns vote no and one town votes yes, it it gets voted down. No, that's not the way it works. Like they consolidate all the votes. You know, Andover could vote it down, but it doesn't mean that it's not going to pass.
So in the past, we've we've seen that happen. So we'll, you know, we just we take our chances with that.
Yeah.
Rob or Jeff, did we get an answer from from RAM? How many students are going in in the next what the enrollment is of all Andover students next beginning next year?
I thought he had that in his in his
I thought I remembered.
I mean there's There's a sixth grade class obviously graduating but I thought Collins projections would have included although maybe they were aggregated they had you know they were for the three towns but he had his enrollment projections for us during his presentation didn't he
the information that he provided me today was 28 students
28 total students from all classes
from andor grade
no just basically going into se
Jeff clarify.
I'm just telling you I just told you there's 26 students in sixth grade that are going to
26 or 28. Sorry. 28 I'm sorry 28 six six
the sixth grade the enrollment projection form that was provided by AES to the superintendent of RAM shows 28. Now I I mean this is this this is where I have my problems and I would have your board your board needs to actually ask these questions. they're using this NESDEC enrollment projection for 10 years out and you know the PK number was 61 right when this was given it's now 67 but there are out of town students in these grades and you got to find out the number because you can't sit there and do this without understanding what's going to happen and what's who's out of town and who's in town and she this is being reported to the Colin and I'd like to know and not only that I'd like to know if we're if we as residents are paying for out of town students
I mean we keep going round and round on this Jeff
67 or 60 we have 67 or I thought it was either 67 or 69 total preschool kids
we have like nine out oftowners and I think there's five staff kids. So, and I think those are probably out of town, too. I don't I don't recall off the top of my head. So, that's that'd be 14 out of 67 or 69. The numbers can fluctuate throughout the course of the year because people age in, people test in, etc. So I I don't know what the state or whatever that projection system does visav that. I also don't know that projecting out from prek all the way to seventh grade accounting for that is even really anything resembling an exact science, right? It's always going to be a fuzzy projection that far out. I mean, we're not talking about one grade year going up. We're talking about prek.
Every one every 1% Rob on that costs our town $340,000. So RAM RAM is expensive. There's no doubt about it. And so we as a group have to sit there and learn it. So I just sit there and I go, if you if you believe that there's there's 14 out oftowners and they're paying at a maximum $6,000 of tuition, you're not covering your costs.
You keep saying this and then the superintendent keeps telling you that it's not so. And I, you know, I don't know what to make.
Prove it to me. I'm asking you as a board, you guys have to get the proof because Rob, just from a standpoint of a prek, a standard prek from a private business is going to be $12,000. You're charging six.
All right. Well, you know, I came here today to try to talk about the town budget. We can't really do it because we've got squat for information. And now I guess we're just going to fall back on talking about the pre-k again.
the question came up about how many people were going into seventh grade.
Yeah, I know. And we have the answer.
Yeah. And what I'm trying to tell you is the information being provided to RAM is including out of town students.
You're you're you're talking about a projection from prek onward. I mean, we're talking about next year.
You're talking about something that's, you know, seven years, six, seven years. If you don't adjust your tuition, you're going to have a problem. So, I want to adjust tuition.
Okay, that's at least fair.
So, my concern my concern about the fact that they use the NES SDEC number is it's an aggregate number of preK through six and we know that our pre school is extra large because they've expanded it. So to use that number doesn't give RAM an accurate number to do its projections. So that's that's a concern for me. I mean RAM has to do what they have to do. but if they're basing it on if they're basing their projections on that number, it's not even accurate for them.
So let's think of it this way. next year in the next couple years, all those pre-K kids will have shuffled up into kindergarten, right? So, what's now pre-K, they'll be in they'll be in K or what?
Not all of them.
Not all.
Well, not all of them. That's just it. So, because the in town kids will, you know, for the most part, obviously, unless one gets outplaced or I understand that,
but I mean, all right, I hear you. and I I guess I don't I guess I don't share the same worry about this, but I hear you.
can I ask a question?
So, if there's 28 kids going into seventh grade now,
and there's approximately 53 Andover preschool kids now, right? If you take out the out oftowners, is that right?
Something like that. Yeah,
something like that. So is Ram basing their budget off they're basing it off of the 28 not the 53 right don't they wait gets closer
this is a discussion about the the projection for 20 30 whatever you know the issue of the prek
well we're talking about the projection for next year we're talking about that 28
right
which is a much firmer number either way because it's immediate I mean you don't you know we don't know what the what the starting next year's kindergarten in class by the time they get to sixth grade and then go to RAM would be that that's again it's a guesstimate. I understand the issue with you know how the numbers are fed in and and crunched. But it's also like that's way down the road and I'm not really sure when RAM budgets they don't budget they don't they're never making a budget looking at what 2032 is going to be. They're talking about their next year. So, it's a little
That's what I was Yeah, that's what I was asking.
Well, that's Apologies. I got some kids stopping in for a second, guys. I'm out of meeting. Okay. Yeah, no problem.
Kim, did you did you have something?
Kim? no. I'm all set. Thank you. okay sorry about that. well you know again we we have we have as on the fourth do we have anything further or actually given the time what would be if we don't really have anything concrete we can do right now my inclination would be to do public speak do a motion to adjurnn shut the recording down and everybody we relog in on with the next for the second meeting of those of you who are going to attend the the board of finance meeting that is anybody have anything further they want to bring up before I go ahead and call for that once it's going twice. Okay. Public speak. Joanne, you got anything for us? I really do, Rob. I'll make it really quick, but I think it's important after listening to this meeting. I just want to again commend the new treasurer for being present at every town meeting since she's come on board. I can't say enough how much we wanted that in the past having been a board of finance med member and then having you be in control of the spreadsheet is so key because mistakes were made. It just makes sense. So bravo to you for
being here and giving all your time. The other thing I don't know I just feel like I have to comment on this because a question was asked and I don't feel like you all that are an important board got a really good answer. the undertaking. I believe in confidentiality, professionalism, the whole bit. So, I won't slay that at all. But I think it's important that, you know, a really professional process has been in place to hire a new town administrator. The people that were chosen to be on that committee were really committed, gave a lot of time and effort. So, I just don't think that came across. It kind of was slushed over. So, you know, it goes through its process, then it gets put in
the hands of the board of selectmen, and then they'll do what they think is the best thing for the town. So, just know that everybody gave a lot of commitment. It wasn't, you know, anything that wasn't full of integrity. you know, comments were made by the whole committee as they should be and then, you know, the people in charge of our town will make their decisions, which they should. the other thing is has because it hasn't been brought up and it keeps being said that Jim's leaving, which shouldn't be, you know, which he's done such a great job. I've met him. Has anyone just thought of having him remain as a virtual town administrator for a while through email, through the way things are so virtual these days? instead of going without a town administrator until the BOS comes to their decisions, possibly keep them on as virtual and through email, through phones and things of that nature. Thank you so much. Good luck with all you need to do.
Thanks, Joanne. I appreciate it. okay, Dennis, did you have anything further? I I think you've
No, I made my point. As long as there was every everybody that's here now was here when I spoke. I just want to make sure everybody is aware of the, you know, I I I'm just trying to get, you know, the process correct. I I I I just, that's my job. I'm a lawyer sworn to uphold the law. I am you know, I'm probably one of the biggest supporters of public education you're ever going to meet. I I have worked on budgets for years here and all over the place. And but I it it isn't about that to with me. It's about doing things right, doing it correctly. And I believe that I'm right that you you do have the authority to adjust the board of finance budget before it goes to town meeting. And you know, you're going to hear that from me again unless I change my mind, which so far doesn't look like it.
Well, yeah, I think I've read three or four things from you now on on that.
Okay. I've written enough, I think.
thank you, Dennis. so I I see something here. Naturescape LLC. I'm sorry. I'm not I'm not sure who that is. Marcy.
Oh, hi Marcy.
Marcy,
hi. Yeah, sorry I got on late. I didn't know it said that. I thought it had my name on there, but anyway. yeah, I'm sorry I got on late. I I feel like I missed a lot. And and you were talking about the kids that are going into kindergarten. And the last number I got was 25. So I think that's pretty consistent with the numbers that we've had for the other grades,
right?
So
and I think also in preschool it's it's not just two years. Some I think some kids might be in that for three years.
It's where it's more complicated than that. It's like they can age in at two years nine months.
2.9. Yeah.
I think they have the like two like they can be three in January,
right?
And it used to be like that for kindergarten, but now kindergarten's changed,
right?
So anyway, thanks.
Well, thank you. Appreciate it.
Okay. Like I said, you know, we've got our schedule here. So, I think that's everything for for public speak. Speak up if I've missed you. If not, I'd like to entertain a motion to adjurnn and switch over to our other meeting.
I'll make the motion to adjurnn.
Thanks, Luis. I have a second.
No, seconded.
Thanks, Liz. All right. All in favor?
I
All right. Thank you very much. Let's set the recording